Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 01:56 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: Couldn't evil be defined as something that causes net loss/pain/cost to the larger community, for no benefit other than gratification on the part of the transgressor? It seems to me that this would be an article of faith. No. Morals can be worked out logically. No faith needed. In fact it is quite easy to see how evolutionary selection pressures and not religion shaped much of what people consider moral / immoral. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:32 PM 4/1/2003 -0500 The Fool wrote: http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html I thought you believed in charity and freedom of speech. Cutting through the spin of this article, these groups are going to provide much-needed aid to Iraqis, and when the opportunity arrises, they will discuss the faith that motivated themselves to engage in these good works. These people are not going to Iraq for the purpose of providing aid to Iraqi's. They are going to Iraq for the purpose of converting people to their fundamentalist bullshit. These two fanatical religious groups aren't motivated to do good works, even for the sake of doing good works (no relion does good works solely because they are good, they do these things to spread themselves). In fact I can think of no other way to describe the southern baptist convention other than 'Hate group'. Take a very good look at what this hate group says. Oh yes, but these aid workers are vultures. Yes. They are. I support the actions of real aid groups, that actually provide aid, and know how to provide aid, and don't predicate that aid on beliefs. I do not support these religious fanatics. More like bigotry as spin. No. Just plain cold truth about certain hate groups about to descend on Iraq and baptize everthing that moves. http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=14780CFID=6375349CFTO KEN=9141795 The new Christian crusades Religious right Islam-bashers target postwar Iraq WARNING: If you've reached your personal saturation point regarding the invasion of Iraq and can take no more: read another column. If, on the other hand, you're still surprised, stunned, and stupefied by all the madness: proceed with caution. After 9/11, pundits quickly relegated irony to history's dust bin. There was nothing left to laugh about. Several months later, there were no hosannas or fanfare when irony slithered back into our lives. These days, irony is alive and well, thank you, as recently embodied by several post-war proselytizing-in-Iraq proposals announced by fundamentalist Christian organizations. With each passing day the U.S. rains down more death and destruction on the people of Iraq. Outrage within the Muslim world is rapidly growing. When the war against with Iraq is over and occupation begins, the Bush Administration plans to establish an American-led government -- with ample benefits reaped by the president's long-time political supporters and oil industry cronies. Closely behind these grim reapers there will follow a host of fundamentalist Christian leaders, plowing the sand for new recruits. Over the past ten days, several fundamentalist Christian organizations announced plans to prop further open the window of opportunity by participating in the rebuilding of Iraq. Before the war, none seemed particularly interested in working to avoid the situation the Bush Administration has caused in the country, and now, none seem interested in whether or not they're invited or even desired by the people of Iraq. And, in what can only be referred to as uber-chutzpah, the Rev. Franklin Graham recently said that his organization, Samaritan's Purse, will lead the way. You may remember the Rev. Billy Graham's son, the Rev. Franklin Graham, lashed-out at all Muslims shortly after September 11th. At that time the Rev. Franklin Graham called Islam wicked. Now, along with several other U.S. and Canadian-based fundamentalist Christian groups, he is organizing Christian welcome wagons stuffed with Bibles and band-aids. Remember, Rev. Franklin Graham is one of several fundamentalist Christian leaders who engaged in an Islam-directed orgy of hate. In How Islam-Bashing Got Cool, published several months after 9/11, Deborah Caldwell of Beliefnet pointed out that Muslim-bashing went beyond commentators criticizing Muslim extremists. They included remarks that attack[ed] Islam, Muslims, the Qur'an, and the Prophet Muhammad as pervasively and inherently bad. Here comes da' Rev. Evangelist Franklin Graham, having already virtually taken over his father's organization, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, runs his own relief agency. Samaritan's Purse is one of the world's largest Christian relief agencies, and it is mobilized and poised to assist those affected by the war to liberate Iraq, reports AgapePress, a Christian News Service. Shortly after September 11, the Rev. Franklin Graham stunned Muslims and the Bush Administration by bashing Islam. He declared: The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion. Later, he told NBC News: It wasn't Methodists flying into those buildings, it wasn't Lutherans. It was an attack on this country by people of the Islamic faith. Regarding his current crusade, Graham told Beliefnet: We realize we're in an Arab country
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
At 03:03 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: John D. Giorgis wrote: At 01:56 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: Couldn't evil be defined as something that causes net loss/pain/cost to the larger community, for no benefit other than gratification on the part of the transgressor? It seems to me that this would be an article of faith. Faith in what/whom ? Your above statement is simply a fiat. It is not universally developable by other sentients. Thus, while your above statement may be practical (although it is so vague, I'm not even sure that it is that), to believe that it is absolutely true is only possible through faith. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On Thursday, April 3, 2003, at 01:25 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 03:03 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: John D. Giorgis wrote: At 01:56 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: Couldn't evil be defined as something that causes net loss/pain/cost to the larger community, for no benefit other than gratification on the part of the transgressor? It seems to me that this would be an article of faith. Faith in what/whom ? Your above statement is simply a fiat. It is not universally developable by other sentients. Thus, while your above statement may be practical (although it is so vague, I'm not even sure that it is that), to believe that it is absolutely true is only possible through faith. Many kinds of personal beliefs can be a priori or tautological, and therefore do not require any faith at all. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
JMH wrote: Evil is like beauty or great art: I know it when I see it. You know it when you see it, but *why* do you know it when you see it? Is it somehow innate or is because you grew up in a culture suffused with Judeo-Christian values? Does our sense of right and wrong, or good and evil, come from the culture in which we grew up, or from our genes? Reggie Bautista Not Answering, Just Asking Maru _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 07:36 pm, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 2 Apr 2003 at 16:44, William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. LOL! I don't have a religion. Yes you do. No I don't. It's anti-religion. No it isn't. And hate it as you might, it's a religion. No it isn't. Plain and simple. Wrong again! It's bigotry, No it isn't. Haven't I seen this conversation before? Ah, now I remember! ... Perhaps we should call it a draw? - ARTHUR: I command you, as King of the Britons, to stand aside! BLACK KNIGHT: I move for no man. ARTHUR: So be it! ARTHUR and BLACK KNIGHT: Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc. [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's left arm off] ARTHUR: Now stand aside, worthy adversary. BLACK KNIGHT: 'Tis but a scratch. ARTHUR: A scratch? Your arm's off! BLACK KNIGHT: No, it isn't. ARTHUR: Well, what's that then? BLACK KNIGHT: I've had worse. ARTHUR: You liar! BLACK KNIGHT: Come on, you pansy! [clang] Huyah! [clang] Hiyaah! [clang] Aaaah! [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right arm off] ARTHUR: Victory is mine! [kneeling] We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer-- BLACK KNIGHT: Hah! [clunk] Come on then. ARTHUR: What? BLACK KNIGHT: Have at you! [kick] ARTHUR: Eh. You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine. BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, had enough, eh? ARTHUR: Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left. BLACK KNIGHT: Yes I have. ARTHUR: Look! BLACK KNIGHT: Just a flesh wound. [kick] ARTHUR: Look, stop that. BLACK KNIGHT: Chicken! [kick] Chickennn! ARTHUR: Look, I'll have your leg. [kick] Right! [whop] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right leg off] BLACK KNIGHT: Right. I'll do you for that! ARTHUR: You'll what? BLACK KNIGHT: Come here! ARTHUR: What are you going to do, bleed on me? BLACK KNIGHT: I'm invincible! ARTHUR: You're a looney. BLACK KNIGHT: The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on then. [whop] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's last leg off] BLACK KNIGHT: Ooh. All right, we'll call it a draw. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On Thursday, April 3, 2003, at 08:53 pm, Bryon Daly wrote: Haven't I seen this conversation before? Ah, now I remember! ... Perhaps we should call it a draw? No, we shouldn't :-} -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly. - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 12:19 am, The Fool wrote: From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html --- Christ demanded: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. --Luke 19:27 Why do you think that falsehoods will advance your cause? What falsehoods? That Christ demanded that. He told a story; he is not the king in the story. A. This statement is made after he has finished the story. B. This verse does not fit with story that he had just told. C. Even if one were to think this is part of that story then This fits a pattern in the parables, that Christ supposedly said, where a king / ruler (who is representing Christ) goes away and comes back, or is away and comes back, and then rewards a select few and punishes / kills the rest. Lets examine it. The king (Christ) gives out money (gospel etc.) to various slaves (disciples) and goes away for a long time (dies), then comes back some time in the future (second coming) after securing his kingdom (that 'kingdom of god'), returns and judges what the slaves (Christians / disciples) have done with the money (gospel), the slaves (Christians) who had made the most (spread of the gospel / followers) and rewards these slaves (Christians), while the slaves (Christians) who made nothing (in an endorsement of usury that ye olde god of yore had firmly declared illegal and immoral) is punished, and everyone (non Christians) who don't support the king (Christ) are killed (Armageddon). Christ is very much the king in this story. Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: William T Goodall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: woensdag 2 april 2003 13:20 Aan: Killer Bs Discussion Onderwerp: Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. NO! As an Evil Overlord, I cannot stress enough the importance of religion for the populace. Give your subjects religion, then you can tell them their deity is to blame for their misery, not their local Evil Overperson. For Evil Overpeople like me and Debbi, religion is of vital importance to the continuation of our position of power! EVIL GRIN Marx was right: religion is opium for the people. Jeroen Evil Overlord van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. JDG - What is evil without religion? ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. LOL! I don't have a religion. JDG - What is evil without religion? Evil. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly. - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On 2 Apr 2003 at 16:44, William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. LOL! I don't have a religion. Yes you do. It's anti-religion. And hate it as you might, it's a religion. Plain and simple. It's bigotry, and frankly afaik you're no better than people like C18, BNP and the ANL to name three groups I've had run-ins with. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:32:11 -0600, The Fool wrote: http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html Two leading evangelical Christian missionary organizations said Tuesday that they have teams of workers poised to enter Iraq to address the physical and spiritual needs of a large Muslim population After seeing so many interviews with American soldiers and the number of times that god is invoked as their protector, a prolonged American occupation will likely do a much better job at christianizing the population than any missionary group. Dean ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 07:36 pm, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 2 Apr 2003 at 16:44, William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. LOL! I don't have a religion. Yes you do. No I don't. It's anti-religion. No it isn't. And hate it as you might, it's a religion. No it isn't. Plain and simple. Wrong again! It's bigotry, No it isn't. and frankly afaik you're no better than people like C18, BNP and the ANL to name three groups I've had run-ins with. Five factual errors and what looks like an ad hominem attack too. Plus I thought you had killfiled me, so what are you doing reading this in the first place? LOL! -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
On 2 Apr 2003 at 22:05, William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 07:36 pm, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 2 Apr 2003 at 16:44, William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. LOL! I don't have a religion. Yes you do. No I don't. It's anti-religion. No it isn't. And hate it as you might, it's a religion. No it isn't. Plain and simple. Wrong again! It's bigotry, No it isn't. and frankly afaik you're no better than people like C18, BNP and the ANL to name three groups I've had run-ins with. Five factual errors and what looks like an ad hominem attack too. Plus I thought you had killfiled me, so what are you doing reading this in the first place? LOL! Good point. Server filter died. Restarted it. And they're not errors. They're cold hard truth. You are a bigot. That is not an attack, that is truth. The dictionary definition if you will. Groups like C18, the BMP and the ANL are bigots. You are a bigot. I see no difference. That is not an attack...that is simply a statement of fact. You may dispute CAUSES, but not that. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
At 04:44 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. JDG - What is evil without religion? Evil. It seems to me that belief in evil is a religion. Or perhaps you can demonstrate the existence of evil through science, without resorting to faith? JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
At 07:36 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 Andrew Crystall wrote: On 2 Apr 2003 at 16:44, William T Goodall wrote: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 01:24 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 12:19 PM 4/2/2003 +0100 William T Goodall wrote: Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. That sounds like your religion. LOL! I don't have a religion. Yes you do. It's anti-religion. And hate it as you might, it's a religion. Plain and simple. It's bigotry, and frankly afaik you're no better than people like C18, BNP and the ANL to name three groups I've had run-ins with. Heck, his religion is *worse* than Scientology, since at least Scientology was invented to get a tax break. His religion, as ear as I can see it, has no basis other than hatred. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
At 12:32 PM 4/1/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html I thought you believed in charity and freedom of speech. Cutting through the spin of this article, these groups are going to provide much-needed aid to Iraqis, and when the opportunity arrises, they will discuss the faith that motivated themselves to engage in these good works. Oh yes, but these aid workers are vultures. More like bigotry as spin. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
John D. Giorgis wrote: It seems to me that belief in evil is a religion. Or perhaps you can demonstrate the existence of evil through science, without resorting to faith? Couldn't evil be defined as something that causes net loss/pain/cost to the larger community, for no benefit other than gratification on the part of the transgressor? Given that this has occurred throughout human history, evil exists in our world... Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
At 01:56 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: Couldn't evil be defined as something that causes net loss/pain/cost to the larger community, for no benefit other than gratification on the part of the transgressor? It seems to me that this would be an article of faith. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Van: William T Goodall [wrote] Isn't religion just so very very evil? I think it should be banned. NO! As an Evil Overlord, I cannot stress enough the importance of religion for the populace. Give your subjects religion, then you can tell them their deity is to blame for their misery, not their local Evil Overperson. For Evil Overpeople like me and Debbi, religion is of vital importance to the continuation of our position of power! EVIL GRIN Marx was right: religion is opium for the people. Dearest Fellow Evil Overperson: As I know _all_, the religion *I* promulgate is of course Truth and Nothin' But. Besides, my subjects have been told that the wicked Invisible Munchkins of Unusual Size and Ferocity (IMUSFs) are the REAL cause of all our problems...not that there are many. Problems, that is. The IMUSFs are of course legion - I have all the otherwise unemployed people tromping across the cities, picking up litter (as IMUSFs are attracted to garbage) and cleaning off graffiti (which the IMUSFs use to communicate in code) -- not that there is so much litter or graffiti... Others are sponsored in their search for ways to detect these scourges; they would otherwise be up to mischief in the streets... Indoctrina -that is, Educational books on the personal habits that attract IMUSFs to one, such as spitting tobacco juice or smoking, help the people avoid their unwanted interest...I could go on, but to learn the Innermost Mysteries, you'd have to become a convert... Which Is Not A Bad Idea Maru My Shock Collar Is Not So Terribly Painful ;} __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
John D. Giorgis wrote: At 01:56 PM 4/3/2003 +1000 Russell Chapman wrote: Couldn't evil be defined as something that causes net loss/pain/cost to the larger community, for no benefit other than gratification on the part of the transgressor? It seems to me that this would be an article of faith. Faith in what/whom ? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] JDG - What is evil without religion? Evil. It seems to me that belief in evil is a religion. Or perhaps you can demonstrate the existence of evil through science, without resorting to faith? Evil is like beauty or great art: I know it when I see it. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:32 PM Subject: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html --- Christ demanded: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. --Luke 19:27 Why do you think that falsehoods will advance your cause? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:32 PM Subject: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html --- Christ demanded: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. --Luke 19:27 Why do you think that falsehoods will advance your cause? What falsehoods? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 12:32 PM Subject: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html --- Christ demanded: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. --Luke 19:27 Why do you think that falsehoods will advance your cause? What falsehoods? That Christ demanded that. He told a story; he is not the king in the story. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe032603.html --- Christ demanded: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. --Luke 19:27 Why do you think that falsehoods will advance your cause? What falsehoods? That Christ demanded that. He told a story; he is not the king in the story. A. This statement is made after he has finished the story. B. This verse does not fit with story that he had just told. C. Even if one were to think this is part of that story then This fits a pattern in the parables, that Christ supposedly said, where a king / ruler (who is representing Christ) goes away and comes back, or is away and comes back, and then rewards a select few and punishes / kills the rest. Lets examine it. The king (Christ) gives out money (gospel etc.) to various slaves (disciples) and goes away for a long time (dies), then comes back some time in the future (second coming) after securing his kingdom (that 'kingdom of god'), returns and judges what the slaves (Christians / disciples) have done with the money (gospel), the slaves (Christians) who had made the most (spread of the gospel / followers) and rewards these slaves (Christians), while the slaves (Christians) who made nothing (in an endorsement of usury that ye olde god of yore had firmly declared illegal and immoral) is punished, and everyone (non Christians) who don't support the king (Christ) are killed (Armageddon). Christ is very much the king in this story. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: christian vultures circling iraq ready to strike
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... That Christ demanded that. He told a story; he is not the king in the story. I'm not so sure about that; I think he is the king in the story. But what is quite clear is that Christ did not describe himself a king in the worldly, literal sense of that title, so it would be inconsistent, to say the least, to assume that the rest of the parable is to be taken literally. It is typical for language to use metaphors of killing, destroying, etc., to describe a battle of words, not physical weapons, so such a metaphor would be relatively ordinary. If Christ had meant for people to literally kill his enemies, then to be consistent in the context of this story, he would have also been arguing that his kingdom is of this earth. Of course, he said just the opposite. I tend to think it is arrogance for anyone to presume that they know exactly what this parable implies. Whether we believe in God or not, I think it's a mistake to claim to know what God's exact will and intentions would have us do in the concrete, here and now (even if our claim starts with if there were a god...). All we can do is our best, knowing we'll miss the mark periodically, perhaps often. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
