Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Neal Schlein via Callers]

Interesting observation, Alan.

Yes, I've encountered it with female dancers as a dancer and caller.
However...it isn't quite the same.  I suspect it is both more apparent and
more pronounced with men, AND that once they've braved the waters to come
dancing the experience of it may be less likely to cause them to stop
dancing than it is with women.

Here's my reasoning:

Even though squares and contra are not even close to being true lead/follow
dances, the men's role is still imbued with more directional control and
responsibility in things like properly positioning swings and managing
courtesy turns.  A man who persistently fails at those will be more
disruptive and obvious than an equally incompetent female counterpart due
to simple physics and the nature of contra choreography.  There is nothing
to tell him that HE is the problem, and if he has never seen or experienced
a truly successful set he doesn't know any better.

There is also a more significant social component.  Men tend to be rewarded
for acting confident and penalized for seeking outside validation, so much
so that we do it even when we don't know what we're doing.  Women
experience the reverse situation and are likely to be criticized (or feel
they will be criticized) for being confident even when they obviously DO
know what they are doing.  That means a struggling male dancer is more
likely to go confidently wrong than a woman, while a skilled male dancer is
more willing to confidently "assist" a difficult partner than his equally
skilled female counterparts.  Conversely, a struggling female dancer is
more likely to accept assistance and willingly perceive the problem than a
man is.

There is research which has been done on false confidence, where people who
possess highly above-average skill will tend to underestimate their own
knowledge and overestimate that of others, while those who persistently
fail to learn will tend to do the reverse.  This sort of
persistent-beginner dancer may actually believe that he is learning at a
perfectly fine rate.

Another piece of research that I think is relevant has to do with the
different reactions men and women have to the same act of failure.  An
assessment was done of failed funding attempts on Kickstarter.  What the
researchers discovered first was that a repeated effort was more likely to
succeed.   Then they broke down the behavior by gender.  When male
entrepreneurs failed to receive backing, they were highly likely to repost
the same project until it succeeded.  A female entrepreneur, on the other
hand, would scrap it and try something completely different--if she tried
anything at all.  The researchers interpreted this difference as being
caused by relative internalization of community commentary.  (I haven't
read the original papers, and learned of both topics through NPR.  I can
dig up the citations if anyone is interested in learning more.)

Anyway, if that conclusion is correct, male versions of these problem
dancers may stick around despite repeatedly failing, while the female of
the species realizes something is wrong and jumps ship.  This is probably
especially true if the men are receiving any sort of encouragement or
positive feedback at all.

Just some thoughts.
Neal



Neal Schlein
Youth Services Librarian, Mahomet Public Library


Currently reading: *The Different Girl* by Gordon Dahlquist
Currently learning: How to set up an automated email system.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I've seen some responses on the organizers list and here, and I've thought
> about the persistent rock-in-the-stream dancer we had in Berkeley (who did,
> eventually, start modifying the dances so he could get where he needed on
> time, and who indeed various women would ask to dance or he'd be asking the
> new young women dancers and confusing them horribly).
>
> One thing I'm noticing from the similar stories and responses is that all
> the rocks in the stream I'm hearing about are male, and it's falling on
> experienced women dancers to save the dance from them.
>
> Is this just a problem with small sample sizes?  Has anyone encountered
> this kind of dancer, the kind who really structurally can't ever be good at
> it, spreads confusion, and yet keeps coming back, in female form?
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
>
> On 3/6/2017 5:24 PM, Mary Collins via Callers wrote:
>
> We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and ear-mind
> process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about him
> driving).  We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady dancers
> pair with this gentleman.  Otherwise he will ask newbies to dance, and
> often is at the end of the line, after the walk through.  When you dance
> with him you have to call to him through the dance and guide him to where
> he needs to be.  This is how we have dealt with our own issue.
>
> In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's 

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Linda S. Mrosko via Callers]

We have had similar problems with a small number of dancers, mostly men.
One suffered a stroke and was trying to dance to get himself back in shape,
but he was extremely slow, confused and invariably always wanted to dance
with newcomers, which confused them.  As experienced dancers, we agreed to
keep him busy dancing with us only and that worked most of the time.

We have another gent who is very, very book smart, but not conceptually
smart.  After putting up with him dancing every dance with his girlfriend
who was also always confused, he finally confessed to the group that he
needed to know what the move after the swing was to keep him timely.
Viola!  Now that we know to give him more time to concentrate on the move
after a swing, he is a much improved dancer.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Meg Dedolph via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I've run into dancers as a caller and on the floor who fit this
> description - men and women both. Most of the time the problem seems to be
> that they can't get where they need to be on time, or they end a figure
> facing the wrong direction.
> But here's something that I learned in retrospect from an evening spent
> calling a small community dance with a pair of women who were moving too
> slowly for the music and who kept dancing together. I'd call a dance and
> identify these problems and think to myself, "Pick a different dance for
> the next one with a little more slop time in it and more figures where you
> are holding hands with someone and not on your own, or maybe an uneven
> dance." So I'd do that, but then I would notice that the women, who had
> gotten tired during the previous dance, had decided to sit out the dance
> that I'd picked to best meet their needs on the floor and prevent
> breakdowns!
> So then I'd go back to my original plan for the *next* dance, but there
> they'd be, back up on their feet, having rested!
> It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out the pattern. Now I
> know to watch for folks who had a hard time during one dance choosing to
> sit out the next and regroup.
> But, y'know, as soon as I think I have something figured out about
> dancers, humankind throws me a curve ball.
> Meg
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:41 PM Winston, Alan P. via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I've seen some responses on the organizers list and here, and I've
>> thought about the persistent rock-in-the-stream dancer we had in Berkeley
>> (who did, eventually, start modifying the dances so he could get where he
>> needed on time, and who indeed various women would ask to dance or he'd be
>> asking the new young women dancers and confusing them horribly).
>>
>> One thing I'm noticing from the similar stories and responses is that all
>> the rocks in the stream I'm hearing about are male, and it's falling on
>> experienced women dancers to save the dance from them.
>>
>> Is this just a problem with small sample sizes?  Has anyone encountered
>> this kind of dancer, the kind who really structurally can't ever be good at
>> it, spreads confusion, and yet keeps coming back, in female form?
>>
>> -- Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 5:24 PM, Mary Collins via Callers wrote:
>>
>> We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and
>> ear-mind process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about him
>> driving).  We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady dancers
>> pair with this gentleman.  Otherwise he will ask newbies to dance, and
>> often is at the end of the line, after the walk through.  When you dance
>> with him you have to call to him through the dance and guide him to where
>> he needs to be.  This is how we have dealt with our own issue.
>>
>> In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's workshop
>> where you can address some of the issues you have seen him experience (i.e.
>> the 1/2 alemande instead of the 1 1/2 of the call, or a shorter swing.
>> Play up the better never than late thing and talk about flourishes and how
>> they are not really a necessary part of the dance experience.
>>
>> the others have mentioned other ideas that are really good.
>>
>> Good luck Marie!
>>
>> Mary in Buffalo
>>
>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
>> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
>> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
>> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
>> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
>> often does not remember what is coming next.
>>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
>> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
>> will take one for 

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Meg Dedolph via Callers]

I've run into dancers as a caller and on the floor who fit this description
- men and women both. Most of the time the problem seems to be that they
can't get where they need to be on time, or they end a figure facing the
wrong direction.
But here's something that I learned in retrospect from an evening spent
calling a small community dance with a pair of women who were moving too
slowly for the music and who kept dancing together. I'd call a dance and
identify these problems and think to myself, "Pick a different dance for
the next one with a little more slop time in it and more figures where you
are holding hands with someone and not on your own, or maybe an uneven
dance." So I'd do that, but then I would notice that the women, who had
gotten tired during the previous dance, had decided to sit out the dance
that I'd picked to best meet their needs on the floor and prevent
breakdowns!
So then I'd go back to my original plan for the *next* dance, but there
they'd be, back up on their feet, having rested!
It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out the pattern. Now I
know to watch for folks who had a hard time during one dance choosing to
sit out the next and regroup.
But, y'know, as soon as I think I have something figured out about dancers,
humankind throws me a curve ball.
Meg


On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:41 PM Winston, Alan P. via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I've seen some responses on the organizers list and here, and I've thought
> about the persistent rock-in-the-stream dancer we had in Berkeley (who did,
> eventually, start modifying the dances so he could get where he needed on
> time, and who indeed various women would ask to dance or he'd be asking the
> new young women dancers and confusing them horribly).
>
> One thing I'm noticing from the similar stories and responses is that all
> the rocks in the stream I'm hearing about are male, and it's falling on
> experienced women dancers to save the dance from them.
>
> Is this just a problem with small sample sizes?  Has anyone encountered
> this kind of dancer, the kind who really structurally can't ever be good at
> it, spreads confusion, and yet keeps coming back, in female form?
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
>
> On 3/6/2017 5:24 PM, Mary Collins via Callers wrote:
>
> We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and ear-mind
> process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about him
> driving).  We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady dancers
> pair with this gentleman.  Otherwise he will ask newbies to dance, and
> often is at the end of the line, after the walk through.  When you dance
> with him you have to call to him through the dance and guide him to where
> he needs to be.  This is how we have dealt with our own issue.
>
> In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's workshop
> where you can address some of the issues you have seen him experience (i.e.
> the 1/2 alemande instead of the 1 1/2 of the call, or a shorter swing.
> Play up the better never than late thing and talk about flourishes and how
> they are not really a necessary part of the dance experience.
>
> the others have mentioned other ideas that are really good.
>
> Good luck Marie!
>
> Mary in Buffalo
>
> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
> often does not remember what is coming next.
>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite
> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles,
> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers
> still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> Thank you
> Marie
> ContraMontreal
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing 
> 

Re: [Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

[Bob Isaacs via Callers]

Yoyo and All:


I wrote that sequence on 8/6/10, and call it Hook, Line, and Sinker.  At the 
time I looked around and didn't find it in the usual sources, but it's possible 
someone else preceded me with it.


Bob



From: Callers  on behalf of Yoyo Zhou 
via Callers 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:42:48 PM
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: [Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

Hi callers,

I improvised this dance inspired by James Hutson's Treasure of the Sierra Madre 
last night, but it seems like it could have been written before. Does anyone 
have a title and author for it?

NB. The B2->A1 transition has slightly awkward hands for the gents, but it 
seemed to go fine.

A1: N balance, box the gnat; gents allemande left 1+1/2
A2: full hey, pass P right
B1: P balance, swing
B2: circle left 3/4; balance ring, P CA twirl

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers as a caller

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

That is a GREAT question. I try not to call to a single dancer--largely b/c
often, calls don't even help this sort of dancer all that much. (Sometimes
I call to them out of instinct, but I've been trying to check myself there.)

I don't reay have a good strategy here except to enlist dance angels.
If I've got experienced-dancer friends in the crowd (which I often do),
I'll point out the problem dancer and ask if my friend will partner with
them. (This isn't a favor I'd be comfortable asking of someone unless I a.
am friendly with them and b. know them to be actively interested in
partnering with less experienced folks and building up the skill level on
the dance floor.)

Interested to hear others' take on this issue!

Cheers,
Maia

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Inspired by Marie's other thread, I wonder what tools callers use when
> they encounter a dance floor with such a dancer, especially if there is
> only one who is having so much difficulty but who leaves confused dancers
> in their wake. Do you call to that dancer? Do you call earlier? Do you
> adjust your program accordingly? Something else?
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Winston, Alan P. via Callers]

I've seen some responses on the organizers list and here, and I've 
thought about the persistent rock-in-the-stream dancer we had in 
Berkeley (who did, eventually, start modifying the dances so he could 
get where he needed on time, and who indeed various women would ask to 
dance or he'd be asking the new young women dancers and confusing them 
horribly).


One thing I'm noticing from the similar stories and responses is that 
all the rocks in the stream I'm hearing about are male, and it's falling 
on experienced women dancers to save the dance from them.


Is this just a problem with small sample sizes?  Has anyone encountered 
this kind of dancer, the kind who really structurally can't ever be good 
at it, spreads confusion, and yet keeps coming back, in female form?


-- Alan



On 3/6/2017 5:24 PM, Mary Collins via Callers wrote:
We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and 
ear-mind process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about 
him driving).  We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady 
dancers pair with this gentleman.  Otherwise he will ask newbies to 
dance, and often is at the end of the line, after the walk through.  
When you dance with him you have to call to him through the dance and 
guide him to where he needs to be.  This is how we have dealt with our 
own issue.


In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's workshop 
where you can address some of the issues you have seen him experience 
(i.e. the 1/2 alemande instead of the 1 1/2 of the call, or a shorter 
swing.  Play up the better never than late thing and talk about 
flourishes and how they are not really a necessary part of the dance 
experience.


the others have mentioned other ideas that are really good.

Good luck Marie!

Mary in Buffalo

“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about 
learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown


On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers 
> wrote:


Hi everyone,
   Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is
bad enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is
moderately challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment
and walks very stiffly which means he will often not be on time
for a figure and also often does not remember what is coming next.
  We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence
negatively impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the
experienced dancers will take one for the team and dance with him,
it is an unpleasant experience to be his partner. Unfortunately,
we always have many new dancers and having one couple not be where
they should be can really throw them off in some dances so I feel
like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, despite the
fact that it's a little rude.
   A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which
was quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with
similar troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this
so that other dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to
this problematic dancer?
Thank you
Marie
ContraMontreal

___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net





___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Mary Collins via Callers]

We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and ear-mind
process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about him
driving).  We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady dancers
pair with this gentleman.  Otherwise he will ask newbies to dance, and
often is at the end of the line, after the walk through.  When you dance
with him you have to call to him through the dance and guide him to where
he needs to be.  This is how we have dealt with our own issue.

In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's workshop
where you can address some of the issues you have seen him experience (i.e.
the 1/2 alemande instead of the 1 1/2 of the call, or a shorter swing.
Play up the better never than late thing and talk about flourishes and how
they are not really a necessary part of the dance experience.

the others have mentioned other ideas that are really good.

Good luck Marie!

Mary in Buffalo

“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
> often does not remember what is coming next.
>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite
> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles,
> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers
> still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> Thank you
> Marie
> ContraMontreal
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

[Callers] Difficult dancers as a caller

[Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers]

Inspired by Marie's other thread, I wonder what tools callers use when they 
encounter a dance floor with such a dancer, especially if there is only one who 
is having so much difficulty but who leaves confused dancers in their wake. Do 
you call to that dancer? Do you call earlier? Do you adjust your program 
accordingly? Something else? 

Thanks,
Alex


Sent from my iPhone

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Meg Dedolph via Callers]

A friend of mine with autistic kids shared something with me that she
learned from her kids' therapist: some people have a hard time taking
verbal direction for physical activity and do better by seeing a
demonstration.
So sometimes when I have a dancer on the floor who seems really confused, I
think about this idea. Your mileage may vary.
Anyway. Good luck.
Meg in Chicago
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:58 PM Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thanks April and everyone else, this is giving me a lot of ideas to think
> about.
> To answer your question, he does not seem to understand the "damage" he's
> sometimes leaving in his wake, he might not realize the importance of being
> on time to help the other dancers. If anyone has a gentle way to suggest to
> let him understand that it would be appreciated. But once we do that, I
> like the suggestion to include him in discussions about how to help and
> would like to do it.
>
> Unfortunately, this is a fairly small community with lots of new dancers
> every time, so I don't think we have 12 experienced female dancers, let
> alone 12 willing to dance with him and I'm not sure he's willing to dance
> with other men. I might not be the only one who is struggling to have
> empathy because I do not want to dance with him twice (he also smells
> really bad and doesn't always control the strength with which he grips my
> hand, although that might be getting better). Do you think it's better to
> concentrate our efforts at the beginning of the evening so new dancers can
> get used to contra, or at the end of the evening when dances are usually a
> little more complicated?
>
> Also, trying to articulate the problem a little better: he can swing
> reasonably, and I think circles and stars are ok if the music is not too
> fast. But I think that sometimes he does the wrong thing with confidence
> which throws people off if he doesn't have a firm, experienced partner to
> hold him back.
>
> Thanks all, I already have lots of material to think about, but keep it
> coming!
> Marie
> ContraMontreal
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 5:30 PM, April Blum via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> You want to avoid letting him pair up with a new dancer, so you might
> indeed want to have a confidential chat with the regular ladies who are
> also good leads, and see if they are willing to take turns dancing with him.
> Some techniques for his partners: Walk the swing and stop early to face
> in. Turn 1.5 allemandes into half allemandes or pull bys. Turn free moves
> into "with hands" moves where possible. Ask your caller to suggest that
> everyone try a hey with hands if the timing is tight. Or turn a hey for
> four into a hey for three, with you and he acting as a unit. That works for
> half heys as well. Just cross the set together, dodging the other two
> dancers. If he's hopelessly behind each time through, consider skipping B2
> and set up for the next repetition. Maybe concentrate on getting him
> comfortable with the first part of the sequence.
> Is he aware of his "rock in the stream of the dance" status? The answer to
> this might affect how much adaptation he will accept.
> Do keep in mind that it takes a certain amount of courage to try something
> new and challenging, particularly as an individual rather than a couple.
> And one or more of the organizers should chat with him at the break. It
> would be useful to find out if he has a physical challenge. On Mar 6, 2017
> 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
> often does not remember what is coming next.
> >   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
> >A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was
> quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar
> troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other
> dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> > Thank you
> > Marie
> > ContraMontreal
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
> 

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers]

Thanks April and everyone else, this is giving me a lot of ideas to think
about.
To answer your question, he does not seem to understand the "damage" he's
sometimes leaving in his wake, he might not realize the importance of being
on time to help the other dancers. If anyone has a gentle way to suggest to
let him understand that it would be appreciated. But once we do that, I
like the suggestion to include him in discussions about how to help and
would like to do it.

Unfortunately, this is a fairly small community with lots of new dancers
every time, so I don't think we have 12 experienced female dancers, let
alone 12 willing to dance with him and I'm not sure he's willing to dance
with other men. I might not be the only one who is struggling to have
empathy because I do not want to dance with him twice (he also smells
really bad and doesn't always control the strength with which he grips my
hand, although that might be getting better). Do you think it's better to
concentrate our efforts at the beginning of the evening so new dancers can
get used to contra, or at the end of the evening when dances are usually a
little more complicated?

Also, trying to articulate the problem a little better: he can swing
reasonably, and I think circles and stars are ok if the music is not too
fast. But I think that sometimes he does the wrong thing with confidence
which throws people off if he doesn't have a firm, experienced partner to
hold him back.

Thanks all, I already have lots of material to think about, but keep it
coming!
Marie
ContraMontreal

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 5:30 PM, April Blum via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> You want to avoid letting him pair up with a new dancer, so you might
> indeed want to have a confidential chat with the regular ladies who are
> also good leads, and see if they are willing to take turns dancing with him.
> Some techniques for his partners: Walk the swing and stop early to face
> in. Turn 1.5 allemandes into half allemandes or pull bys. Turn free moves
> into "with hands" moves where possible. Ask your caller to suggest that
> everyone try a hey with hands if the timing is tight. Or turn a hey for
> four into a hey for three, with you and he acting as a unit. That works for
> half heys as well. Just cross the set together, dodging the other two
> dancers. If he's hopelessly behind each time through, consider skipping B2
> and set up for the next repetition. Maybe concentrate on getting him
> comfortable with the first part of the sequence.
> Is he aware of his "rock in the stream of the dance" status? The answer to
> this might affect how much adaptation he will accept.
> Do keep in mind that it takes a certain amount of courage to try something
> new and challenging, particularly as an individual rather than a couple.
> And one or more of the organizers should chat with him at the break. It
> would be useful to find out if he has a physical challenge. On Mar 6, 2017
> 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers  net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
> often does not remember what is coming next.
> >   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
> >A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was
> quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar
> troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other
> dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> > Thank you
> > Marie
> > ContraMontreal
> ___
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> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[April Blum via Callers]

You want to avoid letting him pair up with a new dancer, so you might indeed 
want to have a confidential chat with the regular ladies who are also good 
leads, and see if they are willing to take turns dancing with him. 
Some techniques for his partners: Walk the swing and stop early to face in. 
Turn 1.5 allemandes into half allemandes or pull bys. Turn free moves into 
"with hands" moves where possible. Ask your caller to suggest that everyone try 
a hey with hands if the timing is tight. Or turn a hey for four into a hey for 
three, with you and he acting as a unit. That works for half heys as well. Just 
cross the set together, dodging the other two dancers. If he's hopelessly 
behind each time through, consider skipping B2 and set up for the next 
repetition. Maybe concentrate on getting him comfortable with the first part of 
the sequence. 
Is he aware of his "rock in the stream of the dance" status? The answer to this 
might affect how much adaptation he will accept. 
Do keep in mind that it takes a certain amount of courage to try something new 
and challenging, particularly as an individual rather than a couple. 
And one or more of the organizers should chat with him at the break. It would 
be useful to find out if he has a physical challenge. On Mar 6, 2017 3:13 PM, 
Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers  wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>    Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough 
> that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately challenging. 
> He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly which means 
> he will often not be on time for a figure and also often does not remember 
> what is coming next.
>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively 
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers 
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant experience 
> to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new dancers and having 
> one couple not be where they should be can really throw them off in some 
> dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, 
> despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>    A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite 
> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, 
> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers still 
> have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> Thank you
> Marie
> ContraMontreal

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Donna Hunt via Callers]

You might consider including the new dancer into your discussion.  He "seems to 
have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly", I think he might be the 
best one to tell you the things that he has difficulty with and then you can 
brainstorm how best to assist him.  Having someone in the discussion who is 
good a modifying the dance would be great.  

Certainly doing 1/2 instead of 1 1/2 for Allemandes, down the hall in small 
steps and turning sooner if possible, circling using that dancer as a "pivot 
point" so the other dancers circle around him, heys can be shortened or use 
hands to give leverage.  

You might ask this dancer to sit out a few dances an evening citing his 
challenges and then coordinate with the caller for the evening planning those 
dances that include full stars progressing to full stars or other moves that 
require a full count piece.

 

 My guess is that if he will work with you (and you want him to remain a member 
of the community) then brainstorming and giving tips from the mic will help the 
community adapt to include him. 



Donna Hunt




 

 

-Original Message-
From: Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers 
To: Caller's discussion list 
Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 3:17 pm
Subject: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?






Hi everyone,

   Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough 
that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately challenging. 
He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly which means he 
will often not be on time for a figure and also often does not remember what is 
coming next.

  We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively impacts 
other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers will take 
one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant experience to be his 
partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new dancers and having one couple 
not be where they should be can really throw them off in some dances so I feel 
like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, despite the fact that 
it's a little rude.

   A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite 
accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, does 
anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers still have a 
good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?

Thank you

Marie

ContraMontreal

___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Linda Leslie via Callers]

A while back, we had the same sort of challenge at one of the local dances.  
About a dozen of us from the dance community got together to problem solve. The 
group decided that if one of us made sure that the challenged dancer had a 
partner for each dance, that it would be good for the entire dance. The 
less-than-satisfying dance experience would only last for 10 minutes or so, but 
improve the experience for the rest of folks in the set. Our reward: the 
continuous smile on the challenged dancer’s face more than made up for any 
perceived loss of “quality” dance time.  This gesture made a lot of difference, 
making the dance more pleasurable for all involved. 

As for the techniques used to help the dancer be on time: asking directly for 
permission to help, and how best to help might show the dancer that you care 
enough about his feelings and experience to ask. 

Warm wishes for happy problem solving for your dance community, Linda

On Mar 6, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers 
 wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough 
> that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately challenging. 
> He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly which means 
> he will often not be on time for a figure and also often does not remember 
> what is coming next.
>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively 
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers 
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant experience 
> to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new dancers and having 
> one couple not be where they should be can really throw them off in some 
> dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, 
> despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite 
> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, 
> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers still 
> have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> Thank you
> Marie
> ContraMontreal
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

[Jerome Grisanti via Callers]

Yoyo,

I don't know if such a sequence already exists, but your point about the
awkward transition had me wondering about replacing your B2 with:

Balance the ring, pass through, turn alone.
Star left 3/4 (three quarters).

Jerome




On Monday, March 6, 2017, Yoyo Zhou via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi callers,
>
> I improvised this dance inspired by James Hutson's Treasure of the Sierra
> Madre last night, but it seems like it could have been written before. Does
> anyone have a title and author for it?
>
> NB. The B2->A1 transition has slightly awkward hands for the gents, but it
> seemed to go fine.
>
> A1: N balance, box the gnat; gents allemande left 1+1/2
> A2: full hey, pass P right
> B1: P balance, swing
> B2: circle left 3/4; balance ring, P CA twirl
>
> Thanks,
> Yoyo Zhou
>
>

-- 
Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

[Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers]

Hi everyone,
   Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough
that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
often does not remember what is coming next.
  We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
   A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite
accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles,
does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers
still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
Thank you
Marie
ContraMontreal

Re: [Callers] Does this dance already exist?

[Ric Goldman - Letsdance via Callers]

Hi Seth,



I don't recall an exact match, but it's similar to Big Easy by Becky Hill:



A1 N B+S

A2 LLFB; Ladies alle R 1.5

B1 P B+S

B2 Cir L 3/4; Bal ring, pass thru



or CJ's Delight by Amy Kahn:



A1 N B+S

A2 LLFB; Ladies alle R 1.5

B1 P Gypsy+Sw

B2 Ps promenade CCW; Cal Twirl



and very close to Heritage Reel by Tony Parkes:



A1 N B+S

A2 LLFB; Gents alle L 1.5

B1 P B+S

B2 Half promenade; ladies chain 



Hope this helps.



Thanx, Ric Goldman

letsda...@rgoldman.org



From: Callers [mailto:callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of
Tepfer, Seth via Callers
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:52 AM
To: Caller's discussion list 
Subject: [Callers] Does this dance already exist?





A1: N B

A2: LLFB; Gents Allemande L 1.5

B1: P B

B2: P promenade across; Circle Left 3/4, N pull by



It seems so obvious that someone must have written it before. 





Seth Tepfer

Director of Administrative Computing

Oxford College
770-784-8487
seth.tep...@emory.edu  

Use AskIT for fastest response: Oxford.emory.edu/AskIT
 







  _  


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Re: [Callers] Does this dance already exist?

[Tony Parkes via Callers]

Seth Tepfer wrote: [Does this dance already exist?]



> A1: N B

> A2: LLFB; Gents Allemande L 1.5

> B1: P B

> B2: P promenade across; Circle Left 3/4, N pull by

> It seems so obvious that someone must have written it before.

It's similar to two of mine. I could have tweaked one or the other to produce 
the sequence above, but I decided I didn't want to give a name to every 
possible variation I could think of.

Heritage Reel (May 1988)
A.1: N B
A.2: LLF M AL 1.5
B.1: P B
B.2: P prom across; W Ch

Solstice Special (June 1991)
A.1: N Dosi
A.2: LLF M AL 1.5
B.1: P Gyp
B.2: P prom across; circle L 3/4, pass thru


Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
www.hands4.com
New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
(to be published Spring 2017)

[Callers] Does this dance already exist?

[Tepfer, Seth via Callers]

A1: N B

A2: LLFB; Gents Allemande L 1.5

B1: P B

B2: P promenade across; Circle Left 3/4, N pull by

It seems so obvious that someone must have written it before.


Seth Tepfer
Director of Administrative Computing
Oxford College
770-784-8487
seth.tep...@emory.edu
Use AskIT for fastest response: 
Oxford.emory.edu/AskIT






This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.

If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).

[Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Hi callers,

I improvised this dance inspired by James Hutson's Treasure of the Sierra
Madre last night, but it seems like it could have been written before. Does
anyone have a title and author for it?

NB. The B2->A1 transition has slightly awkward hands for the gents, but it
seemed to go fine.

A1: N balance, box the gnat; gents allemande left 1+1/2
A2: full hey, pass P right
B1: P balance, swing
B2: circle left 3/4; balance ring, P CA twirl

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou