Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Don Veino via Callers]

The feel/facing may be different, but these usages appear to pretty much
align with classic circle to zig/zag patterns as well?

[snip]
On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 10:58 AM Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Alan, I agree that dolphin poussette is an apt description for what's
> going on; and concur that it probably wouldn't help all the dancers (and
> less so in Contra than in English, I think).
>
> The star bursts as envisioned below definitely have a dolphin hey
> poussette feel, with the two couples curving around each other.
>
> Here's another triplet with a star burst.
>
> [/snip]
>
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Alan, I agree that dolphin poussette is an apt description for what's going
on; and concur that it probably wouldn't help all the dancers (and less so
in Contra than in English, I think).

The star bursts as envisioned below definitely have a dolphin hey poussette
feel, with the two couples curving around each other.

Here's another triplet with a star burst.

Cabot Starburst Triplet
Formation: Triplet

A1 ---
(1s improper, 2s and 3s proper)
(16) 1s & 2s Neighbor balance and swing (optional: 3s with partner)
End with 1s in the middle of the group of 3
A2 ---
(8) Lines of 3, forward and back
(8) 1s & 3s Left hand Star
B1 ---
(8) 1s & 2s Right hand Star
(8) 1s & 2s starburst; ladies lead out and to the right (1s & 2s swap); 3s
come up through the middle to the top (now 3-1-2)
B2 ---
(16) Partner gyre and swing
New 1s face down, 2s and 3s face up

I spent an hour tonight rocking a baby to sleep; so there's another contra
with the figure; that gets rid of the star 3/4 that the last improper
formation had.

Star Burst Insomnia
Formation: Becket-CCW

A1 ---
(6) Circle Left 3/4
(10) Swing neighbor
A2 ---
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Left Hands across star
B1 ---
(8) Star Burst, gents lead out and curve left, ladies lead in
(8) With new neighbors, Right Hands across star
B2 ---
(8) Women allemande right 1-1/2
(8) Partner swing

As a side note, about a decade ago, I wrote in to shared weight asking
about ladies allemanding before a swing; which hand works better? (And
started a long tradition of finding out someone else had already written
the dance in question.) This dance could go either way, depending on if you
started with a left or right hand star (switches who leads out, and the
direction of progression)

The thousand or so dances I have in Callers Companion are not exhaustive,
and reflect my own proclivities in collection and composition; but the
stats come out as
40 dances: ladies allemande right->swing
14 dances: ladies allemande left->swing

For comparison, on the gents side, I have
121 dances: gents allemande left->swing
2 dances: gents allemande right->swing

(I'm not counting the allemande to balance or gyre and swings, I'm just
looking at when they two happen in the same phrase) So while not as
strongly biased as the gents left->swing; the general consensus seems to be
that if the ladies are going to allemande into a swing, it's probably
better by the right hand.

Thank you again to Shared Weight for being a resource for all these years
(both the organizers and the contributors).

I'll refrain from posting any more star burst dances until I actually get
to call one for dancers ;-)
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Winston, Alan P. via Callers]

Just getting to my email now.

I have an ECD with a similar move - star into couples chase out, swap leads, 
come back in; in my dance, they go around each other, so it's clearly a 
poussette variation.

I tried calling it "dolphin poussette" but that really doesn't speak to people; 
another caller tried "couples chase out, turn right about and head back in" 
which got people to the right place but in a more angular way than I'd 
envisioned.

Here's my dance (with terminology from 2010; substitute "shoulder round" and 
preferred role names where appropriate).

---

SOUTHWIND
Longways duple minor IMPROPER
Southwind (flowing waltz) 16-bar A, 16-bar B, no repeats.
7/1/2010 - Radically revised 6/14/2011, words revised 10/16/2011.

A:  1-4: Neighbors right hand turn 1x, launching women into
5-6: half-gypsy R finishing inside set line, facing neighbor
7-8: All chassee up or down to change places with partner while looking at
 neighbor, finish facing partner.

  9-12: Partners left hand turn 1x, launching women into
 13-14: half-gypsy L, finishing inside set line facing partner
 15-16: All chassee up or down to change places with neighbor (to home place),
while looking at partner, finish facing in.

B:  1-4:right hand star 1x which leaves men
facing out, partners behind them
5-8: "Dolphin Poussette":
 Partners lead individually the way they're facing
 cast right to face the other way
 lead individually into progressed place and women (now in lead)
 loop right  while men continue forward to face in into

   9-12: Partners gypsy right shoulder once round into
  13-16: Partners two-hand turn once round and  open to face new neighbors.


Notes: You could also describe the women's half-gypsy as a "hole in the wall"
cross but they may want to back out to the set line if you do that.  Recommend
demo as early part of instruction.

The "dolphin poussette" is fairly hard to get across in words, but it does have
that "dolphin hey" sense of changing leads.  The paths are roughly parallel.
Breakdown is something like this:

   5: each lead three steps out; at end women are on the men's set line while
   men are well out from the set line)
   6: both start right shoulder cast; man's, on the wider track, gets halfway
  to neighbor's place while woman's gets all the way
   7: man finishes cast still well out from set line while
  woman crosses set to progressed place facing out
   8: man takes three steps forward to set line while
  woman loops right through her place to face in.

-

Anyway, for your use case, maybe "turn the star once around, stay facing the 
way the star leaves you.  Single-file in couples, go straight out, individually 
turn up and go up, individually turn in, and walk in until you're back in the 
set in a new spot."

Star burst is a nice name!

-- Alan


On 3/8/2019 9:28 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers wrote:
Thank you all, for your thoughts and discussion, and I do like the name star 
burst.

As I'd envisioned it, the path on the floor is very much like a poussette, but 
the dancers wouldn't be holding hands. It's almost like the tandem turn in a 
dolphin hey; but with motion up and down the hall. I think of zig-zag when 
there's lateral movement relative to the direction the dancers are looking, 
which this doesn't have either. So yeah, it's a blender-mix of a bunch of 
different stuff.

I'd be curious to hear more from the square dance callers on the list about the 
Tag the Line analogy; although I'm unlikely to call it a half-tag.

The triplet that inspired it will unfortunately probably not see much use. I'll 
let folks know if I ever successfully (or unsuccessfully) run it.

I'll see if I can work a star burst into another choreography.

Star Burst Triplet
by: Luke Donforth
Proper triplet, 123->231

A1 ---
(8) Lines of three, forward and back
(8) Partner Do-si-do
A2 ---
2s:
(8) Lady round two and the gent cut through around 1s above
(8) Gent round two and the lady cut through around 3s below
B1 ---
(8) 1s & 2s Left hand Star at the top
(8) 2s & 3s Right hand Star at the bottom
B2 ---
(6) Star-burst: 1s walk to bottom while 2s and 3s make space and move up
(12) partner swing, end facing up

Notes: The B2 star-burst: 2s and 3s make room by continuing their direction out 
of the star.
2s curve up and left, slotting into the 1s position
3s curve up and right, slotting into the 2s position
animation of it:
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/

Thanks again all for kicking it around with me.


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:30 PM Luke Donforth 
mailto:luke.do...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi All,

I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence that I 
think 

Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers]

Well if you have ecd folks on the floor... 
bottoms star right once around and ease out and pause!  Gents will continue up 
the outside of the set one place as the ladies cast up one place, AND the 1s 
lead down all the way to the bottom. Go!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 8, 2019, at 3:49 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here's a crack at putting the star burst in a duple improper choreography.
> 
> Stellar Star Burst
> Contra/Improper
> 
> A1 ---
> (16) Neighbor gyre and swing
> A2 ---
> (8) Larks/Gents allemande Left 1-1/2
> (8) Partner swing
> B1 ---
> (8) Long lines, forward and back
> (8) Left hand Star 3/4
> B2 ---
> (8) Star Burst: ravens/ladies lead out, curve left; larks/gents lead back in 
> (single progression)
> (8) with new neighbors Right hand Star 1x
> 
> I'm not positive on the timing of B1 & B2. There are a couple of places to 
> adjust it. This assumes giving folks a little extra time for the star burst, 
> with a left hand star 3/4x that probably won't take the full 8 counts. If A2 
> were circle left 3/4 & partner swing. Then B1 becomes long lines forward and 
> back with a left hand star 1 & 1/4; which would compress the starburst into 
> ~6. You could also make it take more time with a double progression (a wider 
> out, loop, and in; although it might be hard to keep track of). The gyre and 
> swing at the A1 is pretty forgiving. 
> 
> I don't know how different the star burst would feel from a poussette; the 
> two are very similar; and the above sequence could be rendered:
> 
> A1 ---
> (16) Neighbor gyre and swing
> A2 ---
> (8) Larks allemande Left 1-1/2
> (8) Partner swing
> B1 ---
> (8) Long lines, forward and back
> (8) Circle Right 3/4
> B2 ---
> (8) Poussette (larks start push) to progress
> (8) With next neighbors Circle Left 1X
> 
> I think I'd rather dance the first one than the second; but I'm not sure it's 
> worth the teaching time.
> 
>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 5:52 PM Angela DeCarlis  wrote:
>> I would probably get everyone into their final positions first before 
>> teaching the move, so's that everyone knows where they'll end up.
>> 
>> After that the language would look something like, "Star Right all the way 
>> around. With your partner and without hands, slide out and away from the 
>> center of the set in the direction that feels comfortable moving out of that 
>> star. Ones move up through the center. Twos and Threes, slide back into the 
>> set into the positions we previewed earlier."
>> 
>> It would be slightly easier to teach if it weren't proper! Then you could 
>> specify who's leading whom for those slides.
>> 
>> I like this move and would like to see a version of it in a duple improper 
>> choreography, please! Sans the folks moving through the center, 
>> unfortunately.
>> 
>> Angela
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:15 PM QuiAnn2 via Callers 
>>>  wrote:
>>> If it isn’t already a defined move it should most definitely be called a 
>>> “star burst”!!
>>> 
>>> Jacqui Grennan
>>> 
 On Mar 7, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
  wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence 
 that I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a 
 demo.
 
 The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out, 
 up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the 
 bottom. 
 
 I put together an animation of it:
 https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/
 
 Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you 
 teach it?
 
 Thanks for your thoughts!
 
 -- 
 Luke Donforth
 luke.donfo...@gmail.com
 ___
 List Name:  Callers mailing list
 List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
 Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>> 
>>> ___
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Here's a crack at putting the star burst in a duple improper choreography.

Stellar Star Burst
Contra/Improper

A1 ---
(16) Neighbor gyre and swing
A2 ---
(8) Larks/Gents allemande Left 1-1/2
(8) Partner swing
B1 ---
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Left hand Star 3/4
B2 ---
(8) Star Burst: ravens/ladies lead out, curve left; larks/gents lead back
in (single progression)
(8) with new neighbors Right hand Star 1x

I'm not positive on the timing of B1 & B2. There are a couple of places to
adjust it. This assumes giving folks a little extra time for the star
burst, with a left hand star 3/4x that probably won't take the full 8
counts. If A2 were circle left 3/4 & partner swing. Then B1 becomes long
lines forward and back with a left hand star 1 & 1/4; which would compress
the starburst into ~6. You could also make it take more time with a double
progression (a wider out, loop, and in; although it might be hard to keep
track of). The gyre and swing at the A1 is pretty forgiving.

I don't know how different the star burst would feel from a poussette; the
two are very similar; and the above sequence could be rendered:

A1 ---
(16) Neighbor gyre and swing
A2 ---
(8) Larks allemande Left 1-1/2
(8) Partner swing
B1 ---
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Circle Right 3/4
B2 ---
(8) Poussette (larks start push) to progress
(8) With next neighbors Circle Left 1X

I think I'd rather dance the first one than the second; but I'm not sure
it's worth the teaching time.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 5:52 PM Angela DeCarlis  wrote:

> I would probably get everyone into their final positions first before
> teaching the move, so's that everyone knows where they'll end up.
>
> After that the language would look something like, "Star Right all the way
> around. With your partner and without hands, slide out and away from the
> center of the set in the direction that feels comfortable moving out of
> that star. Ones move up through the center. Twos and Threes, slide back
> into the set into the positions we previewed earlier."
>
> It would be slightly easier to teach if it weren't proper! Then you could
> specify who's leading whom for those slides.
>
> I like this move and would like to see a version of it in a duple improper
> choreography, please! Sans the folks moving through the center,
> unfortunately.
>
> Angela
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:15 PM QuiAnn2 via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> If it isn’t already a defined move it should most definitely be called a
>> “star burst”!!
>>
>> Jacqui Grennan
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence
>> that I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a
>> demo.
>>
>> The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move
>> out, up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to
>> the bottom.
>>
>> I put together an animation of it:
>> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/
>>
>> Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you
>> teach it?
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts!
>>
>> --
>> Luke Donforth
>> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>> ___
>> List Name:  Callers mailing list
>> List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>

-- 
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luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Thank you all, for your thoughts and discussion, and I do like the name
star burst.

As I'd envisioned it, the path on the floor is very much like a poussette,
but the dancers wouldn't be holding hands. It's almost like the tandem turn
in a dolphin hey; but with motion up and down the hall. I think of zig-zag
when there's lateral movement relative to the direction the dancers are
looking, which this doesn't have either. So yeah, it's a blender-mix of a
bunch of different stuff.

I'd be curious to hear more from the square dance callers on the list about
the Tag the Line analogy; although I'm unlikely to call it a half-tag.

The triplet that inspired it will unfortunately probably not see much use.
I'll let folks know if I ever successfully (or unsuccessfully) run it.

I'll see if I can work a star burst into another choreography.

Star Burst Triplet
by: Luke Donforth
Proper triplet, 123->231

A1 ---
(8) Lines of three, forward and back
(8) Partner Do-si-do
A2 ---
2s:
(8) Lady round two and the gent cut through around 1s above
(8) Gent round two and the lady cut through around 3s below
B1 ---
(8) 1s & 2s Left hand Star at the top
(8) 2s & 3s Right hand Star at the bottom
B2 ---
(6) Star-burst: 1s walk to bottom while 2s and 3s make space and move up
(12) partner swing, end facing up

Notes: The B2 star-burst: 2s and 3s make room by continuing their direction
out of the star.
2s curve up and left, slotting into the 1s position
3s curve up and right, slotting into the 2s position
animation of it:
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/

Thanks again all for kicking it around with me.


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:30 PM Luke Donforth  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence
> that I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a
> demo.
>
> The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out,
> up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the
> bottom.
>
> I put together an animation of it:
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/
>
> Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you
> teach it?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>


-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Jerome Grisanti via Callers]

I wonder if this might be considered the second half of Tag the Line (Half
Tag is a common term, but it's the first half that square dancers use).
Modern western square dance callers may think differently.

--Jerome



Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 3:30 PM Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence
> that I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a
> demo.
>
> The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out,
> up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the
> bottom.
>
> I put together an animation of it:
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/
>
> Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you
> teach it?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
> ___
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Angela DeCarlis via Callers]

I would probably get everyone into their final positions first before
teaching the move, so's that everyone knows where they'll end up.

After that the language would look something like, "Star Right all the way
around. With your partner and without hands, slide out and away from the
center of the set in the direction that feels comfortable moving out of
that star. Ones move up through the center. Twos and Threes, slide back
into the set into the positions we previewed earlier."

It would be slightly easier to teach if it weren't proper! Then you could
specify who's leading whom for those slides.

I like this move and would like to see a version of it in a duple improper
choreography, please! Sans the folks moving through the center,
unfortunately.

Angela


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:15 PM QuiAnn2 via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> If it isn’t already a defined move it should most definitely be called a
> “star burst”!!
>
> Jacqui Grennan
>
> On Mar 7, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence
> that I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a
> demo.
>
> The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out,
> up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the
> bottom.
>
> I put together an animation of it:
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/
>
> Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you
> teach it?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Julia Whiteneck via Callers]

whoops - further consideration, i admit I don't know an easy way! seems 
straightforward though, if you just explain the simple mechanism of going out 
and then coming back in it doesn't seem complicated. I would make sure to say 
how far around the star should go, who is in the lead going out and then who is 
in the lead going back in.


From: Callers  on behalf of Julia 
Whiteneck via Callers 
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 5:43 PM
To: Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

looks like a star into a slide left


From: Callers  on behalf of Luke 
Donforth via Callers 
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 4:30 PM
To: Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

Hi All,

I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence that I 
think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a demo.

The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out, up, 
and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the bottom.

I put together an animation of it:
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/

Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you teach it?

Thanks for your thoughts!

--
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com<mailto:luke.do...@gmail.com>
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Julia Whiteneck via Callers]

looks like a star into a slide left


From: Callers  on behalf of Luke 
Donforth via Callers 
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 4:30 PM
To: Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

Hi All,

I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence that I 
think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a demo.

The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out, up, 
and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the bottom.

I put together an animation of it:
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/

Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you teach it?

Thanks for your thoughts!

--
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com<mailto:luke.do...@gmail.com>
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Re: [Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[QuiAnn2 via Callers]

If it isn’t already a defined move it should most definitely be called a “star 
burst”!!

Jacqui Grennan

> On Mar 7, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence that 
> I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a demo.
> 
> The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out, 
> up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the 
> bottom. 
> 
> I put together an animation of it:
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/ 
> 
> 
> Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you teach 
> it?
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts!
> 
> -- 
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
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[Callers] How would you teach this? What would you call it?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Hi All,

I'm playing around with choreographing triplets, and I've got a sequence
that I think would flow well; but I'm not sure how to teach it short of a
demo.

The idea is that couples 2 & 3 do a star. Out of that star, they move out,
up, and back in; leaving space in the middle for couple 1 to move to the
bottom.

I put together an animation of it:
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/292197780/

Is that already a defined move? What would you call it? How would you teach
it?

Thanks for your thoughts!

-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
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