Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Rick Mohr via Callers]

If you go to the archive
https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net
and type "challenging", many threads come up.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 3:13 PM, Jerome Grisanti via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> I would encourage you to have plenty of easy to medium-easy dances
> available, and avoid programming all complex dances.
>
> Consider an easy dance done as a no-walk-through, or with minimal
> walk-through, or with a focus on executing this one little timing thing
> well so the whole crowd can have success with the dance. There is a reason
> for it to be in the program, and a satisfaction with doing it well.
>
> So, yes, pepper the dance with complexity, but don't make the whole recipe
> taste like pepper.
>
> Complexity can include: unusual formations, unusual figures, unusual music
> (outside the 32-bar structure, for example), unusual interactions (shadows,
> or same-sex swings).
>
> Also, consider using dances with figures that are unusual but not
> difficult (ex: circle right). This puts experienced dancers out of their
> pattern but does not unduly strain them. (It also puts beginning dancers on
> even footing with experienced dancers, when you use this technique for
> regular dance evenings).
>
> Good luck, I'm sure it'll be fun!
>
> --Jerome
>
>
> Jerome Grisanti
> 660-528-0858 <(660)%20528-0858>
> http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
>
> "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and
> power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Charles via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello list members,
>>
>> I will be calling my first session of "Challenging Dances" soon, and I
>> have a few questions:
>>
>> 1. Is there an archived discussion on this topic that any one knows
>> about, and if so could someone point me to it?
>>
>> 2. If not, I'm wondering about other callers' experiences with these
>> dances - how "challenging" is generally appropriate? (Bear in mind this is
>> not Greenfield, Concord, or a similar dance series where it's safe to
>> assume most dancers will be very experienced/skilled). What sort of "arc"
>> has worked well for such sessions? I know the final program will be
>> determined by the level of those who actually show up to the dance, but
>> it'd be nice to start with a general frame of reference.
>>
>> 3. Any favorite challenging dances anyone has been having particular fun
>> with lately? (I have a good assortment but am always looking for new ones).
>>
>>
>> Thanks! Chuck
>>
>> ___
>> List Name:  Callers mailing list
>> List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>
>
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Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Jerome Grisanti via Callers]

 Chuck,

I would encourage you to have plenty of easy to medium-easy dances
available, and avoid programming all complex dances.

Consider an easy dance done as a no-walk-through, or with minimal
walk-through, or with a focus on executing this one little timing thing
well so the whole crowd can have success with the dance. There is a reason
for it to be in the program, and a satisfaction with doing it well.

So, yes, pepper the dance with complexity, but don't make the whole recipe
taste like pepper.

Complexity can include: unusual formations, unusual figures, unusual music
(outside the 32-bar structure, for example), unusual interactions (shadows,
or same-sex swings).

Also, consider using dances with figures that are unusual but not difficult
(ex: circle right). This puts experienced dancers out of their pattern but
does not unduly strain them. (It also puts beginning dancers on even
footing with experienced dancers, when you use this technique for regular
dance evenings).

Good luck, I'm sure it'll be fun!

--Jerome


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Charles via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello list members,
>
> I will be calling my first session of "Challenging Dances" soon, and I
> have a few questions:
>
> 1. Is there an archived discussion on this topic that any one knows about,
> and if so could someone point me to it?
>
> 2. If not, I'm wondering about other callers' experiences with these
> dances - how "challenging" is generally appropriate? (Bear in mind this is
> not Greenfield, Concord, or a similar dance series where it's safe to
> assume most dancers will be very experienced/skilled). What sort of "arc"
> has worked well for such sessions? I know the final program will be
> determined by the level of those who actually show up to the dance, but
> it'd be nice to start with a general frame of reference.
>
> 3. Any favorite challenging dances anyone has been having particular fun
> with lately? (I have a good assortment but am always looking for new ones).
>
>
> Thanks! Chuck
>
> ___
> List Name:  Callers mailing list
> List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
>
___
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List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Charles via Callers]

Hello list members,

I will be calling my first session of "Challenging Dances" soon, and I have a 
few questions:

1. Is there an archived discussion on this topic that any one knows about, and 
if so could someone point me to it?

2. If not, I'm wondering about other callers' experiences with these dances - 
how "challenging" is generally appropriate? (Bear in mind this is not 
Greenfield, Concord, or a similar dance series where it's safe to assume most 
dancers will be very experienced/skilled). What sort of "arc" has worked well 
for such sessions? I know the final program will be determined by the level of 
those who actually show up to the dance, but it'd be nice to start with a 
general frame of reference.

3. Any favorite challenging dances anyone has been having particular fun with 
lately? (I have a good assortment but am always looking for new ones).

Thanks! Chuck
___
List Name:  Callers mailing list
List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

[Callers] Challenging Contras

[Playford1651 via Callers]

You might like to try this one!

Pink Pigtails by John Meechan

Longways improper  double progression 48 bar jigs (has own tune which I
can send if you would like it)

A1Circle left (8); swing nbr (8).

A2 Mad Robin men front of women (8); men start half hey passing RSh
while women start the hey but ricochet back to place (8).

B1  Balance and swing ptnr.

B2  Take hands and balance the ring and Petronella a place (8); balance
the ring again and California twirl ptnr to face new nbr (8).

C1Do si do new nbr once and a bit to form a wave (8); balance the
wave and trade the wave (8).

C2Balance the wave again and trade the wave (8); balance the wave
again and move on to a new nbr (8).


Trade the wave is a MWSD move. In the wave you are facing the same
direction as your partner. All walk forward to trade places with partner (
women on the inside), i.e a sort of U shape.

Hope this suitable for you. The challenge is not only that it is a 48 bar
dance but has the trade the wave move.

The dance was written for Maureen Knight (my wife) on her 60th birthday.

Graham

Re: [Callers] Challenging contras

[tavi merrill via Callers]

Bradley,

The first and third dances in this video playlist may fit your bill.

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Jerome Grisanti via Callers]

If you look at Fiddleheads (a classic), you might also consider Cary
Ravitz's Fiddle Tales (Fiddletales?), which retains the signature diamond
petronella turns but also includes neighbor swings.

--Jerome


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Roger Hayes via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> "Fiddleheads" by Ted Sanella
>
> - Roger Hayes
>
> from mobile
>
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>
>

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

One thing you can do for variety is simple dances as no-walkthroughs. Line
'em up and getting them dancing. Even when they say they want advanced
dances, they still want the joy of successfully dancing to music.

It's easier to write a challenging dance than it is to write a good simple
dance; and I've written many challenging dances. If you're looking for
variety, a 6 facing 6 might be up your alley:
http://www.madrobincallers.org/2014/02/26/6-facing-6-contra-dances/
"2 out of 3 ain't bad" is the only one I've actually run with dancers
There are loads more complex ones on my site (anyone remember the
Greenfield formation contest?), but I'd stick to the ones that have been
field tested.

I hope you have a tight group of dancers to practice on before hand; as
these types of dances benefit even more from testing and discussion in
small groups so you can pick apart where the trouble spots lie. It's hard
to get enough folks though to test larger formations, or end effects.

Have fun.


On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Bradley Smith via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello all! I'll be calling a session of challenging contras at a dance
> weekend next month, and find myself lacking in the aforementioned
> challenging contras. I want to keep the session balanced, with a mix of
> dances that are mind-bending or heavily technical as well as some dances
> that are a step or so below that but that still have something interesting
> or unique. Would any of you be so kind as to share some of your favorite
> challenging dances? Thank you in advance!
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 

[Callers] Challenging Contras

[Playford1651 via Callers]

You might like to try this one!

Pink Pigtails by John Meechan

Longways improper  double progression 48 bar jigs (has own tune which I
can send if you would like it)

A1Circle left (8); swing nbr (8).

A2 Mad Robin men front of women (8); men start half hey passing RSh
while women start the hey but ricochet back to place (8).

B1  Balance and swing ptnr.

B2  Take hands and balance the ring and Petronella a place (8); balance
the ring again and California twirl ptnr to face new nbr (8).

C1Do si do new nbr once and a bit to form a wave (8); balance the
wave and trade the wave (8).

C2Balance the wave again and trade the wave (8); balance the wave
again and move on to a new nbr (8).


Trade the wave is a MWSD move. In the wave you are facing the same
direction as your partner. All walk forward to trade places with partner (
women on the inside), i.e a sort of U shape.

Hope this suitable for you. The challenge is not only that it is a 48 bar
dance but has the trade the wave move.

The dance was written for Maureen Knight (my wife) on her 60th birthday.

Graham

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Roger Hayes via Callers]

"Fiddleheads" by Ted Sanella

- Roger Hayes

from mobile

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Bev Young via Callers]

Some of my favorites are ones that have end effects, but they are fun to
dance once people know to expect that.  Often they have dancing on the
diagonals and progressions in the middle of the dance.  Here are some:

Are You Most Done?  by Russell Owen
You Married My Daughter by Jacob Bloom
Bases Loaded by Lydee King, Tom Thoreau and Jim Saxe
Our House by Dean Snipes
Dulcimer Lady by Jim Kitch

Bev Young

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Dale Wilson via Callers]

One of my favorites, but it not easy to teach is *There is No Way To Peace;
Peace is the Way* by Erik Hoffman:

http://www.erikhoffman.com/peace.html

And, although *I* don't think it's hard, this dance has two new moves:

*Gold Star Wednesday **by Dale Wilson, (2012)*


*...because good days deserve gold stars, and Wednesday was a great
Day!**Contra
improper*

*A1 * Neighbor Balance & Swing
*A2* Right hand star 3 places; Invert the star(see the note below)
  Left hand star
*B1 *Gents loop right around neighbor (behind) then cross. Meet partner
  Ladies follow gent’s path around the loop but don’t cross.  Meet
Partner.
  Partner Swing
*B2 *Circle left 3 places; Circle Balance; California Twirl


*Notes *  Identify Gent's Home place before start of dance.
Both stars end with the gent in his home place.

Invert the star means:
  Gents reach across their body (over the old star) with their free
(left) hand
to their neighbor who is behind them.  Ladies take gent's hand with
their free (left) hand.
  Let go of the original star.  Make an arch.
  Gents step back slightly to allow ladies to step thru the arch.
   Joined left hands come down into LH Star.

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Bradley Smith via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello all! I'll be calling a session of challenging contras at a dance
> weekend next month, and find myself lacking in the aforementioned
> challenging contras. I want to keep the session balanced, with a mix of
> dances that are mind-bending or heavily technical as well as some dances
> that are a step or so below that but that still have something interesting
> or unique. Would any of you be so kind as to share some of your favorite
> challenging dances? Thank you in advance!
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
. Turn Information into
Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
into Love .

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Keith Wood via Callers]

I have several to offer (click the Call Sheet button for instructions):

Circuitous - lose your partner and find them again - 
http://dancekaleidoscope.org.au/dance.html#Circuitous


Contraindicated - duple-improper but a reverse progression - 
http://dancekaleidoscope.org.au/dance.html#Contraindicated


Diamonds are Forever - duple-diamond formation - 
http://dancekaleidoscope.org.au/dance.html#DiamondsAreForever


Jacob's Ladder - hey-to-hey transition - 
http://dancekaleidoscope.org.au/dance.html#JacobsLadder


Snowflakes that Stay - duple-diamond formation - 
http://dancekaleidoscope.org.au/dance.html#SnowflakesThatStay


Cheers

Keith

On 9/04/2016 4:31 AM, Bradley Smith via Callers wrote:
Hello all! I'll be calling a session of challenging contras at a dance 
weekend next month, and find myself lacking in the aforementioned 
challenging contras. I want to keep the session balanced, with a mix 
of dances that are mind-bending or heavily technical as well as some 
dances that are a step or so below that but that still have something 
interesting or unique. Would any of you be so kind as to share some of 
your favorite challenging dances? Thank you in advance!



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Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[Jonathan Sivier via Callers]

On 4/8/2016 1:31 PM, Bradley Smith via Callers wrote:

Hello all! I'll be calling a session of challenging contras at a dance
weekend next month, and find myself lacking in the aforementioned
challenging contras. I want to keep the session balanced, with a mix of
dances that are mind-bending or heavily technical as well as some dances
that are a step or so below that but that still have something
interesting or unique. Would any of you be so kind as to share some of
your favorite challenging dances? Thank you in advance!


   Here is one I wrote that can be done as double or triple progression.

Stars and Stripes
Jonathan Sivier (1994, 1995)
duple improper, double progression; intermediate

1 - long lines forward and back
2 - left hand star 1 time
3 - right hand star 1/2, allemande left 3/4 with next
neighbor to a wavy line across the set, men in the
center
4 - balance the line, men allemande right 1/2
5-6 balance and swing partner on the side of the set
7 - circle left 3/4
8 - swing neighbor on the side of the set, end facing
in

Stars and Stripes
Jonathan Sivier (1994, 1995)
duple improper, triple progression; advanced

1 - long lines forward and back
2 - left hand star 1 time
3 - right hand star 1/2, allemande left 3/4 with next
neighbor to a wavy line across the set, men in the
center
4 - balance the line, men allemande right 1/2
5-6 balance and swing partner on the side of the set
7 - circle left 3/4 and pass through along the set
8 - swing new neighbor, end facing in

Notes

3 - timing is tight, must move quickly, end in a wavy
line with actives facing up, inactives facing
down, men holding right hands in the center, 1st
progression
5-6 balance and swing on man's original side
7 - 2nd progression for triple progression version
8 - 3rd progression (2nd progression for double
progression version)

Jonathan
-
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, Square, English and Early American Dances
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
-
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!

Re: [Callers] Challenging Contras

[via Callers]

You might like to try this one!

Pink Pigtails by John Meechan

Longways improper  double progression 48 bar jigs (has own tune which I can 
send if you would like it)

A1Circle left (8); swing nbr (8).

A2 Mad Robin men front of women (8); men start half hey passing RSh while 
women start the hey but ricochet back to place (8).

B1  Balance and swing ptnr.

B2  Take hands and balance the ring and Petronella a place (8); balance the 
ring again and California twirl ptnr to face new nbr (8).

C1Do si do new nbr once and a bit to form a wave (8); balance the wave 
and trade the wave (8).

C2Balance the wave again and trade the wave (8); balance the wave again 
and move on to a new nbr (8).


Trade the wave is a MWSD move. In the wave you are facing the same direction as 
your partner. All walk forward to trade places with partner ( women on the 
inside), i.e a sort of U shape.

Hope this suitable for you. The challenge is not only that it is a 48 bar dance 
but has the trade the wave move.

The dance was written for Maureen Knight (my wife) on her 60th birthday.

Graham

Sent from my iPad

> On 8 Apr 2016, at 19:31, Bradley Smith via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all! I'll be calling a session of challenging contras at a dance 
> weekend next month, and find myself lacking in the aforementioned challenging 
> contras. I want to keep the session balanced, with a mix of dances that are 
> mind-bending or heavily technical as well as some dances that are a step or 
> so below that but that still have something interesting or unique. Would any 
> of you be so kind as to share some of your favorite challenging dances? Thank 
> you in advance!
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

[Callers] Challenging Contras

[Bradley Smith via Callers]

Hello all! I'll be calling a session of challenging contras at a dance
weekend next month, and find myself lacking in the aforementioned
challenging contras. I want to keep the session balanced, with a mix of
dances that are mind-bending or heavily technical as well as some dances
that are a step or so below that but that still have something interesting
or unique. Would any of you be so kind as to share some of your favorite
challenging dances? Thank you in advance!

Re: [Callers] challenging contras

[Chris Weiler]

Hi Richard,

[For those of you that are not subscribed to trad-dance-callers, this 
thread has provoked quite a response and discussion from the membership.]


Richard, congrats on taking on the challenge of calling several sessions 
at Down East. From experience, I know it takes some courage to reach and 
do things that I haven't done before.


There are several things that can make a dance challenging. The trick is 
deciding what you think the dancers are expecting. Some of the ways to 
make a dance challenging:


No walk thru
Unusual/unfamiliar formation
Unusual/unfamiliar figures
Dances requiring "change of focus" (more on this below)
Figures that leave the minor set (shadow, future or past neighbor 
interaction)
Poor flow (the next move is not the one they will expect or have 
momentum to do)

Poor teaching (even the simplest dance can be challenging)
Any dance above the skill level of the dancers

I'm sure that there are other things that make a dance challenging, but 
this list is just off the top of my head.


I would think that you would not want to call a dance that fit any of 
the last three categories. No walk thru dances are not very challenging, 
but do rely on the dancers knowing the figures cold. This is the only 
category above where the dancers can still "turn off their brains" and 
have an enjoyable dance experience. The others will require them to 
think about what they are doing. I think that unusual formations and 
figures speak for themselves. Dances that require "change of focus" are 
dances that require them to change who they are dancing with in the 
middle of the dance. i.e. Balance, Petronella spin one place to the 
right and spin a half more to face new neighbors. Or balance long waves 
on the side of the set, neighbor in your right hand, allemande left with 
the next neighbor. There are many more. Figures that leave the minor set 
should also be self explanatory. There are some fun reunion dances out 
there that take you far away from your partner before reuniting you at 
the last moment.


You can mix up these categories during your session, too. You can start 
off with (or end with) a no walk thru dance, do one "wrack your brain" 
dance in the middle and put a triplet or four-facing-four dance into the 
program as well.


Please remember to remind everyone at the beginning of the session that 
it is for experienced dancers only. Let them know that simpler dances 
will be done across the hall in the auditorium.


Good Luck!! I hope this has helped.

Chris Weiler
Goffstown, NH




Richard Green wrote:

Hello, I am posting this on both the sharedweight and trad-dance-callers
lists:

Next month at the Downeast Festival in Maine I am scheduled to do a short
session which I have called "challenging contras."  At the time that I
suggested it, I thought that I fondly remembered enjoying challenging dance
sessions at dance festivals.  But as I think more about it I realize that
the only ones I can actually remember were sessions where the dances seemed
so complex that it was almost impossible to get 4 or 6 people together at
once who understood what to do, or on the other hand being somewhat
disappointed because the dances didn't seem challenging enough.  I am sure
the line between too much and too little is probably different for everyone.

Can anyone suggest dances that experienced dancers might find somewhat
challenging, perhaps something with an unusual figure?  I have heard several
people on this list mention that anyone can dance anything as long as the
teaching is good enough, so that will be my own challenge.  I plan to try a
couple dances that are not the standard duple formation, but I would like to
find at least one that is duple, so any suggestions or advice are welcome.
If you can also include the transcription or tell me where to find the
dances I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

Richard
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[Callers] challenging contras

[Richard Green]

Hello, I am posting this on both the sharedweight and trad-dance-callers
lists:

Next month at the Downeast Festival in Maine I am scheduled to do a short
session which I have called "challenging contras."  At the time that I
suggested it, I thought that I fondly remembered enjoying challenging dance
sessions at dance festivals.  But as I think more about it I realize that
the only ones I can actually remember were sessions where the dances seemed
so complex that it was almost impossible to get 4 or 6 people together at
once who understood what to do, or on the other hand being somewhat
disappointed because the dances didn't seem challenging enough.  I am sure
the line between too much and too little is probably different for everyone.

Can anyone suggest dances that experienced dancers might find somewhat
challenging, perhaps something with an unusual figure?  I have heard several
people on this list mention that anyone can dance anything as long as the
teaching is good enough, so that will be my own challenge.  I plan to try a
couple dances that are not the standard duple formation, but I would like to
find at least one that is duple, so any suggestions or advice are welcome.
If you can also include the transcription or tell me where to find the
dances I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

Richard