Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian
From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com Pretty solid list, mind if I use it to blog? Very good. Of course I don't mind. :-) regarding the thing about Catalyst and its half in and half out regarding Moose, yeah I think this is definitely a problem. Luckily I think a lot of the more important bits that are not moose could be moved to Plack middleware (authentication and authorization stuff for example). John Yes that's true, but unfortunately there is no documentation for how to do that and it is not clear how complete is the support offered by Plack middleware for all the things that can be moved outside Catalyst. IMHO I think that ideally the business logic should be done in a standalone library that can be used with other interfaces than by web, and the web-specific part should be moved to Plack as much as possible. Octavian ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian
Pretty solid list, mind if I use it to blog? regarding the thing about Catalyst and its half in and half out regarding Moose, yeah I think this is definitely a problem. Luckily I think a lot of the more important bits that are not moose could be moved to Plack middleware (authentication and authorization stuff for example). John - Original Message - From: Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com To: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com; The elegant MVC web framework catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com - Original Message - From: Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com To: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com; The elegant MVC web framework catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com Hi John and thank you again. I'd really like to see a project to gather up, modernize and peer review all the best / informative Advent articles of years past, and we could gather it together as an open source project on github (similarly to the way the Modern Perl book is done). Crafting an ebook would be straightforward, even if we didn't have a publisher. We could version it and update it from time to time as well. We could even put it on some various ebook sites and charge a small fee, to try and raise some money for the project. I mean, if we are talking about existing articles only, I think that even a beginner can read catalystframework.org and Catalyst advent articles from previous years. I guess my thinking is some of the older articles that are good are also pre Moose and pre PSGI. I figured modernizing them and having people review it for modern practices would make them more valuable. Yes, this is true. modernizing is the key word as you said in your original message, but I skipped it. Maybe it can be a good idea to present the modernized article, and also add a link in it to the old article, to make more obvious what is changing, and what's the benefit (because it wouldn't be helpful to just tell that now we should use use Moose; extends '...'; instead of just use parent '...'. But... maybe it could be also helpful to modernize Catalyst modules on CPAN, because some of them use Moose, and some of them don't and some helpers generate models that use Moose and others generate models that don't use it, and this may be a little confusing for newbies. And yes, I think you are right about the reasons of not too much contribution in the last period... Maybe it would require a smaller effort to just create a page with links to the recommended articles, and I think the recommended articles for a beginner should be those who allow him to create a web site with little effort, not the best posible which may be hard to understand by a beginner. No doubt, we could easily do that! OK, I visited Catalyst Advent, and I made a list of articles which I think that may be helpful. Some of them need to be modernized. Here below is the list. It is a kind of vote for them. The other list members can also give their vote pro or against and also express their opinions or propose other articles. It could be helpful if somebody can make a list of articles from main Catalyst web site that might be also included (eventually modernized). I don't know how many of the Catalyst developers would have the time to do that modernization though... (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 11 - Caching http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/11 (2007) Making your Catalyst App Cache-friendly http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2007/11 (2010) Painless Memcached Configuration With Catalyst DBIx::Class http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2010/3 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 15 - Sessions http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/15 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 16 - Adding RSS feeds http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/16 If there are better ways to add an RSS feed, it should be modernized. (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 18 - Catalyst::View::TT http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/18 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 19 - Testing http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/19 (2006) Day 7 - Testing with an External Web Server http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/7 (2006) Day 17 - Testing Catalyst Controllers http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/17 Eventually create a single big article or a serie of articles regarding testing. (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 22 - Action Types http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/22 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 23 - Static
Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian
From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com - Original Message - From: Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com To: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com; The elegant MVC web framework catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com Hi John and thank you again. I'd really like to see a project to gather up, modernize and peer review all the best / informative Advent articles of years past, and we could gather it together as an open source project on github (similarly to the way the Modern Perl book is done). Crafting an ebook would be straightforward, even if we didn't have a publisher. We could version it and update it from time to time as well. We could even put it on some various ebook sites and charge a small fee, to try and raise some money for the project. I mean, if we are talking about existing articles only, I think that even a beginner can read catalystframework.org and Catalyst advent articles from previous years. I guess my thinking is some of the older articles that are good are also pre Moose and pre PSGI. I figured modernizing them and having people review it for modern practices would make them more valuable. Yes, this is true. modernizing is the key word as you said in your original message, but I skipped it. Maybe it can be a good idea to present the modernized article, and also add a link in it to the old article, to make more obvious what is changing, and what's the benefit (because it wouldn't be helpful to just tell that now we should use use Moose; extends '...'; instead of just use parent '...'. But... maybe it could be also helpful to modernize Catalyst modules on CPAN, because some of them use Moose, and some of them don't and some helpers generate models that use Moose and others generate models that don't use it, and this may be a little confusing for newbies. And yes, I think you are right about the reasons of not too much contribution in the last period... Maybe it would require a smaller effort to just create a page with links to the recommended articles, and I think the recommended articles for a beginner should be those who allow him to create a web site with little effort, not the best posible which may be hard to understand by a beginner. No doubt, we could easily do that! OK, I visited Catalyst Advent, and I made a list of articles which I think that may be helpful. Some of them need to be modernized. Here below is the list. It is a kind of vote for them. The other list members can also give their vote pro or against and also express their opinions or propose other articles. It could be helpful if somebody can make a list of articles from main Catalyst web site that might be also included (eventually modernized). I don't know how many of the Catalyst developers would have the time to do that modernization though... (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 11 - Caching http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/11 (2007) Making your Catalyst App Cache-friendly http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2007/11 (2010) Painless Memcached Configuration With Catalyst DBIx::Class http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2010/3 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 15 - Sessions http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/15 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 16 - Adding RSS feeds http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/16 If there are better ways to add an RSS feed, it should be modernized. (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 18 - Catalyst::View::TT http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/18 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 19 - Testing http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/19 (2006) Day 7 - Testing with an External Web Server http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/7 (2006) Day 17 - Testing Catalyst Controllers http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/17 Eventually create a single big article or a serie of articles regarding testing. (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 22 - Action Types http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/22 (2005) Catalyst Advent - Day 23 - Static::Simple http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2005/23 (2009) Delivering Static Media with Catalyst http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2009/16 (2006) Day 1 - Getting started with Catalyst and Subversion http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/1 Maybe it can be modernized to use distributed source control systems like git and mercurial. (2006) Day 2 - Handel http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/2 (2007) A Future Look at Mango http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2007/12 (2006) Day 3 - The Layout of a Catalyst Application http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/3 (2006) Day 9 - Web Services with Catalyst::Action::REST http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2006/9 (2009) Writing REST web services with Catalyst::Controller
Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian
- Original Message - From: Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com To: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com; The elegant MVC web framework catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com Hi John and thank you again. I'd really like to see a project to gather up, modernize and peer review all the best / informative Advent articles of years past, and we could gather it together as an open source project on github (similarly to the way the Modern Perl book is done). Crafting an ebook would be straightforward, even if we didn't have a publisher. We could version it and update it from time to time as well. We could even put it on some various ebook sites and charge a small fee, to try and raise some money for the project. Do you think it can be helpful enough? Not sure, just tossing out ideas to see what sticks! I mean, if we are talking about existing articles only, I think that even a beginner can read catalystframework.org and Catalyst advent articles from previous years. I guess my thinking is some of the older articles that are good are also pre Moose and pre PSGI. I figured modernizing them and having people review it for modern practices would make them more valuable. And yes, I think you are right about the reasons of not too much contribution in the last period... Maybe it would require a smaller effort to just create a page with links to the recommended articles, and I think the recommended articles for a beginner should be those who allow him to create a web site with little effort, not the best posible which may be hard to understand by a beginner. No doubt, we could easily do that! Octavian ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] Re: Advent 2012 -- Catalyst in Nine Steps -- Kudos toOctavian
From: John Napiorkowski jjn1...@yahoo.com Hi John and thank you again. I'd really like to see a project to gather up, modernize and peer review all the best / informative Advent articles of years past, and we could gather it together as an open source project on github (similarly to the way the Modern Perl book is done). Crafting an ebook would be straightforward, even if we didn't have a publisher. We could version it and update it from time to time as well. We could even put it on some various ebook sites and charge a small fee, to try and raise some money for the project. Do you think it can be helpful enough? I mean, if we are talking about existing articles only, I think that even a beginner can read catalystframework.org and Catalyst advent articles from previous years. And yes, I think you are right about the reasons of not too much contribution in the last period... Maybe it would require a smaller effort to just create a page with links to the recommended articles, and I think the recommended articles for a beginner should be those who allow him to create a web site with little effort, not the best posible which may be hard to understand by a beginner. Octavian ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
