RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

I am sorry, my brain and hands do not co-ordinate! My brain reads whatever it 
has to be and my hands type whatever they like!

Chimney Swifts are having gala time in front of my office window very often, I 
think the juveniles have joined the adults and 8 to 9 of them keep flying in 
circles chattering very excitedly. 

Cheers
Meena

-Original Message-
From: bounce-117687193-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-117687193-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Meena Madhav 
Haribal
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:15 PM
To: Linda Orkin
Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

Sorry for the major typo- read comprises and compromises! 

-Original Message-
From: Linda Orkin [mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:12 PM
To: Meena Madhav Haribal
Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the 
ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved 
in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out 
into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. 

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal  wrote:

> Hi Kevin and all, 
> 
> Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points!
> 
> Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just 
> for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly  or a flower or a digger wasp 
> making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car!  
> So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. 
> 
> Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. 
> Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders.
> 
> Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person 
> stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird  then 
> they are as effective as cars. Also everybody  is not interested in 
> photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about 
> it!
> 
> Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At 
> strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be 
> open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they 
> are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open 
> to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles 
> away.  
> 
> If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to 
> the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can 
> think of some of the alternatives.
> 
> If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird 
> three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand 
> and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation!
> 
> We need people to enjoy the nature and love it!
> 
> Hope we will make some changes!
> 
> Cheers
> Meena
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. 
> McGowan
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM
> To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
> Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
> 
> Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at 
> Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of 
> observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway.
> 
> That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. 
> 
> Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible 
> experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be 
> used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also 
> diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get 
> out and get a closer look.
> 
> I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, "I want to optimize my experience, and the 
> riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars)." I am as guilty (or 
> more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the 
> bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at 
> Montezuma as the problem.  I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW 
> people learning about nature there.  
> 
> Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife 
> Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. 
> I WANT people to peer through the 

Re: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[daven1...@yahoo.com]

Kevin and Meena hit the nail on the head. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


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Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Steve Benedict]

Kevin makes some very good points.   One complaint, often heard, is that
people drive too fast on the drive.   I expect these are folks who don't
know what to look for.  They don't see anything of interest and are bored
with endless cattails.   It would be nice if we could get them to stop, and
with a little guidance, begin to see what they have been missing.   Once a
year (Oct?), NWR day (?), volunteers  position ourselves along the drive
with scopes, and purposely flag down vehicles, to get people out to look.
Great fun to have them see something they have never seen before, and/or
didn't know was there to be seen.


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal 
wrote:

> Sorry for the major typo- read comprises and compromises!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Linda Orkin [mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:12 PM
> To: Meena Madhav Haribal
> Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L
> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
>
> Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on
> the ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be
> involved in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't
> say get out into nature...but stay in your car while doing it.
>
> Linda
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Kevin and all,
> >
> > Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points!
> >
> > Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not
> just for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly  or a flower or a digger
> wasp making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your
> car!  So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders.
> >
> > Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature
> conservation. Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not
> just birders.
> >
> > Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a
> person stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird
>  then they are as effective as cars. Also everybody  is not interested in
> photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy
> about it!
> >
> > Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At
> strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be
> open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what
> they are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could
> be open to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are
> miles away.
> >
> > If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations
> to the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves
> can think of some of the alternatives.
> >
> > If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a
> shorebird three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird
> close at hand and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support
> conservation!
> >
> > We need people to enjoy the nature and love it!
> >
> > Hope we will make some changes!
> >
> > Cheers
> > Meena
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:
> bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM
> > To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
> > Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
> >
> > Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true
> at Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton
> of observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own
> driveway.
> >
> > That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups.
> >
> > Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible
> experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be
> used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also
> diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to
> get out and get a closer look.
> >
> > I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, "I want to optimize my experience, and
> the riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars)." I am as
> guilty (or more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself.
> But in the bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying
> nature at Montezuma as the problem.  I think it's quit

RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

Sorry for the major typo- read comprises and compromises! 

-Original Message-
From: Linda Orkin [mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:12 PM
To: Meena Madhav Haribal
Cc: Kevin J. McGowan; CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the 
ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved 
in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out 
into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. 

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal  wrote:

> Hi Kevin and all, 
> 
> Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points!
> 
> Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just 
> for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly  or a flower or a digger wasp 
> making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car!  
> So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. 
> 
> Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. 
> Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders.
> 
> Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person 
> stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird  then 
> they are as effective as cars. Also everybody  is not interested in 
> photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about 
> it!
> 
> Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At 
> strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be 
> open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they 
> are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open 
> to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles 
> away.  
> 
> If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to 
> the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can 
> think of some of the alternatives.
> 
> If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird 
> three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand 
> and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation!
> 
> We need people to enjoy the nature and love it!
> 
> Hope we will make some changes!
> 
> Cheers
> Meena
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. 
> McGowan
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM
> To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
> Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
> 
> Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at 
> Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of 
> observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway.
> 
> That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. 
> 
> Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible 
> experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be 
> used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also 
> diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get 
> out and get a closer look.
> 
> I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, "I want to optimize my experience, and the 
> riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars)." I am as guilty (or 
> more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the 
> bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at 
> Montezuma as the problem.  I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW 
> people learning about nature there.  
> 
> Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife 
> Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. 
> I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail).  
> I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers.  I WANT people to get 
> out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over 
> their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.)
> 
> In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife 
> watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing.  Of 
> course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the 
> habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a 
> darned good reason

Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Linda Orkin]

Kevin and Meena's points and passions are wonderful guiding principles on the 
ways we interact with, enjoy, and respect nature. I would love to be involved 
in some group discussions and creative recommendations. They don't say get out 
into nature...but stay in your car while doing it. 

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Meena Madhav Haribal  wrote:

> Hi Kevin and all, 
> 
> Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points!
> 
> Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just 
> for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly  or a flower or a digger wasp 
> making it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car!  
> So the refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. 
> 
> Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. 
> Most of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders.
> 
> Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person 
> stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird  then 
> they are as effective as cars. Also everybody  is not interested in 
> photographing a bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about 
> it!
> 
> Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At 
> strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be 
> open for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they 
> are supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open 
> to public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles 
> away.  
> 
> If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to 
> the refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can 
> think of some of the alternatives.
> 
> If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird 
> three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand 
> and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation!
> 
> We need people to enjoy the nature and love it!
> 
> Hope we will make some changes!
> 
> Cheers
> Meena
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. 
> McGowan
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM
> To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
> Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(
> 
> Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at 
> Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of 
> observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway.
> 
> That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. 
> 
> Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible 
> experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be 
> used by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also 
> diminishes the potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get 
> out and get a closer look.
> 
> I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, "I want to optimize my experience, and the 
> riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars)." I am as guilty (or 
> more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the 
> bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at 
> Montezuma as the problem.  I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW 
> people learning about nature there.  
> 
> Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife 
> Refuge system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. 
> I WANT people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail).  
> I WANT people to stop and take pictures of the flowers.  I WANT people to get 
> out and marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over 
> their heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.)
> 
> In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife 
> watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing.  Of 
> course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the 
> habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a 
> darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and 
> parents, and friends) out.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin McGowan
> Ithaca, NY
> 
> --
> 
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
> http://

RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

Hi Kevin and all, 

Great thoughts Kevin! I am with you on these points!

Also I would like enjoy other creatures too, it is a wildlife refuge not just 
for birds. I would like to see a dragonfly  or a flower or a digger wasp making 
it home for its progeny. You can't see a digger wasp from your car!  So the 
refuges are not meant for specifically birds or birders. 

Unless people enjoy the nature they will not support nature conservation. Most 
of the people who come there want to enjoy nature not just birders.

Basic thing needed is educating the public about their behavior. If a person 
stands at one location for long time enough without harassing a bird  then they 
are as effective as cars. Also everybody  is not interested in photographing a 
bird. If they see some actions by birds they are happy about it!

Having said that, I would also suggest that there could be comprises. At 
strategic locations there could be blinds or shelters. Also walks could be open 
for certain time of the day, so as to get birds a chance to do what they are 
supposed to do. For example the dykes on the Knox Marsellus could be open to 
public to walk for certain hours of the day. As it is birds are miles away.  

If we all together put in our efforts we can make solid recommendations to the 
refuge or if the refuge managers are reading e-mails they themselves can think 
of some of the alternatives.

If we want people to enjoy nature they should see them up close, a shorebird 
three miles away has not effect on a general public than a bird close at hand 
and watching its behaviors. Then only they will support conservation!

We need people to enjoy the nature and love it!

Hope we will make some changes!

Cheers
Meena



-Original Message-
From: bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-117686987-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:03 PM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at 
Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of 
observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway.

That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. 

Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible 
experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used 
by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the 
potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a 
closer look.

I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, "I want to optimize my experience, and the 
riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars)." I am as guilty (or 
more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the 
bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma 
as the problem.  I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people 
learning about nature there.  

Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge 
system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT 
people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail).  I WANT 
people to stop and take pictures of the flowers.  I WANT people to get out and 
marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their 
heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.)

In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife 
watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing.  Of 
course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the 
habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a 
darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and 
parents, and friends) out.

Kevin

Kevin McGowan
Ithaca, NY

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
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http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--


--

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http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Kevin J. McGowan]

Of course birds let you get closer when you're in a car. That's as true at 
Stewart Park and along any back road as it is in Montezuma. I do a ton of 
observation and photography from my car, sometimes even in my own driveway.

That's great for one person, but it stinks for groups. 

Having to remain in a car on the wildlife drive diminishes the possible 
experience of any group, especially a group with a scope, which cannot be used 
by multiple people (the best teaching tool for groups). It also diminishes the 
potential experience for kids and anyone who would like to get out and get a 
closer look.

I'm hearing a lot of 1%-er talk, "I want to optimize my experience, and the 
riff-raff should just stay away (or stay in their cars)." I am as guilty (or 
more) as anyone of wanting to have the entire refuge to myself. But in the 
bigger picture, I don't see having too many people enjoying nature at Montezuma 
as the problem.  I think it's quite the opposite: there are too FEW people 
learning about nature there.  

Those of us interested in nature and supportive of the National Wildlife Refuge 
system should want EVERYONE to get out of their cars and poke around. I WANT 
people to peer through the reeds and see a turtle (or maybe a rail).  I WANT 
people to stop and take pictures of the flowers.  I WANT people to get out and 
marvel at a muskrat mound, and then have a young Bald Eagle fly over their 
heads. (It's hard to look up from a back seat.)

In my personal opinion, anything that reduces the availability of wildlife 
watching and nature exploration for the general public is a bad thing.  Of 
course safety measures should be in place to protect the wildlife and the 
habitat. But access and education should be the default. Unless you have a 
darned good reason, please don't keep me and my kids (and neighbors, and 
parents, and friends) out.

Kevin

Kevin McGowan
Ithaca, NY

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Lisa Welch]

We can always rationalize a car!  I bet we could put our collective 
imaginations and creativity together and conceive different viewing options 
that would be better for the birds and people.  This is true in general for 
human settlements as well.  However, people want to DRIVE on the same old road 
and look at birds.  It is what it is.   


On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:10 AM, Marie P. Read  wrote:
  


http://www.marieread.com/

Author of Sierra Wings: Birds of the Mono Lake Basin    Available here:

http://marieread.photoshelter.com/gallery/Sierra-Wings-Birds-of-the-Mono-Lake-Basin/GNlCxX37uTzE/CBPFGij6nLfE

From: bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Lisa Welch 
[welch_m_l...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 9:26 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the Wildlife 
Drive :(

I find it counter-intuitive that a large, motorized, polluting, loud, deadly 
vehicle is preferable to a human being on foot, or on a bicycle.  Perhaps it's 
people AND cars that scares the birds.  :-)


On Saturday, August 2, 2014 7:47 PM, Bard Prentiss  
wrote:


I don't remember anyone addressing this long standing annoyance in the manner I 
mention below and I think its worth a try:
Perhaps the bird clubs in the region could each submit thoughtful  petitions to 
the director of mnwr requesting a policy change. If Chris didn't mind one might 
also originate with this list serve. It would be difficult for a public servant 
to ignore several hundred signatures behind a group of thoughtfully worded 
letters and It should at least generate a response and get a dialogue going.
Bird Hard Bard

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2014, at 6:08 PM, John VanNiel 
> mailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu>> wrote:
>
> Meena, this is exactly the kind f discussion I was hoping to instigate. I am 
> not against a change in policy, but I am for enforcement of policies.
> Dr. John Van Niel
> Professor of Environmental Conservation
> Director, East Hill Campus
> Finger Lakes Community College
> 
> From: Meena Madhav Haribal [m...@cornell.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 5:59 PM
> To: John VanNiel
> Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L
> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the 
> Wildlife Drive :(
>
> Hi John and all,
> My question to you is were the birds disturbed by so many people being out. I 
> have been to MNWR for more than 20 years. When I started birding MNWR there 
> was no restriction of being in the car. We could walk around on the drive.
> I have been to many NWR refuges, nowhere there was restrictions as to be in 
> car. I have seen shorebirds and other birds from as close as few feet from 
> me. Birds get used to human beings if we are not shooting them or harassing 
> them. So why there is so much fuss about disturbing the non_existing birds on 
> the wildlife drive.
> I am for the one who believe in opening the drive to foot traffic.
> I agree if someone is harassing the birds they should be stopped. If someone 
> is digiscoping that means birds were  far anyway, so why complain about them?
>
> I vote for wildlife drive should be open for foot traffic!
>
> Cheers
> Meena
>
> John VanNiel mailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu>> wrote:
>
>
> Many Caspian Terns along the Wildlife Drive at Montezuma this afternoon. I 
> very much enjoyed trying to photograph them in flight. (Now the rant..) What 
> I did NOT enjoy were all the people out of their vehicles. Every single 
> person in the five cars ahead of me were out of the vehicles. A young couple 
> were digiscoping with a nice spotting scope on a tripod. Another woman with a 
> large telephoto lens was parked in the middle of the drive and was excitedly 
> taking photos. Two elderly women were down at the edge of the water snapping 
> pictures of the mallows in bloom. I could go on  I moved to Seneca Falls 
> 19 years ago and have been a regular visitor since. I cannot recall a year 
> when the foot traffic was as bad as I have seen it this year. There are two 
> signs that instruct visitors to stay in their vehicles that drivers pass 
> before entering the drive and a third reminder after the big left turn before 
> Benning Marsh. However, I can understand how visitors
 would miss seeing them. I think this is a problem that needs a solution. I 
would like to speak to the Refuge staff formally about it.  If anyone would 
like to join me or have me relay his or her thoughts, please contact me 
offline. Thank you for your time.
> Dr. John Van Niel
> Professor of Environmental Conservation
> Director, East Hill Campus
> Finger Lakes Community College
> 
>
> --
>
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
> http://www.NortheastBird

RE: [cayugabirds-l] ...pedestrians on the Wildlife Drive :(

[Marie P. Read]

http://www.marieread.com

Author of Sierra Wings: Birds of the Mono Lake BasinAvailable here:

http://marieread.photoshelter.com/gallery/Sierra-Wings-Birds-of-the-Mono-Lake-Basin/GNlCxX37uTzE/CBPFGij6nLfE

From: bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-117686157-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Lisa Welch 
[welch_m_l...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 9:26 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the Wildlife 
Drive :(

I find it counter-intuitive that a large, motorized, polluting, loud, deadly 
vehicle is preferable to a human being on foot, or on a bicycle.  Perhaps it's 
people AND cars that scares the birds.  :-)


On Saturday, August 2, 2014 7:47 PM, Bard Prentiss  
wrote:


I don't remember anyone addressing this long standing annoyance in the manner I 
mention below and I think its worth a try:
Perhaps the bird clubs in the region could each submit thoughtful  petitions to 
the director of mnwr requesting a policy change. If Chris didn't mind one might 
also originate with this list serve. It would be difficult for a public servant 
to ignore several hundred signatures behind a group of thoughtfully worded 
letters and It should at least generate a response and get a dialogue going.
Bird Hard Bard

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2014, at 6:08 PM, John VanNiel 
> mailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu>> wrote:
>
> Meena, this is exactly the kind f discussion I was hoping to instigate. I am 
> not against a change in policy, but I am for enforcement of policies.
> Dr. John Van Niel
> Professor of Environmental Conservation
> Director, East Hill Campus
> Finger Lakes Community College
> 
> From: Meena Madhav Haribal [m...@cornell.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 5:59 PM
> To: John VanNiel
> Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L
> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] MNWR Caspian Terns and pedestrians on the 
> Wildlife Drive :(
>
> Hi John and all,
> My question to you is were the birds disturbed by so many people being out. I 
> have been to MNWR for more than 20 years. When I started birding MNWR there 
> was no restriction of being in the car. We could walk around on the drive.
> I have been to many NWR refuges, nowhere there was restrictions as to be in 
> car. I have seen shorebirds and other birds from as close as few feet from 
> me. Birds get used to human beings if we are not shooting them or harassing 
> them. So why there is so much fuss about disturbing the non_existing birds on 
> the wildlife drive.
> I am for the one who believe in opening the drive to foot traffic.
> I agree if someone is harassing the birds they should be stopped. If someone 
> is digiscoping that means birds were  far anyway, so why complain about them?
>
> I vote for wildlife drive should be open for foot traffic!
>
> Cheers
> Meena
>
> John VanNiel mailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu>> wrote:
>
>
> Many Caspian Terns along the Wildlife Drive at Montezuma this afternoon. I 
> very much enjoyed trying to photograph them in flight. (Now the rant..) What 
> I did NOT enjoy were all the people out of their vehicles. Every single 
> person in the five cars ahead of me were out of the vehicles. A young couple 
> were digiscoping with a nice spotting scope on a tripod. Another woman with a 
> large telephoto lens was parked in the middle of the drive and was excitedly 
> taking photos. Two elderly women were down at the edge of the water snapping 
> pictures of the mallows in bloom. I could go on  I moved to Seneca Falls 
> 19 years ago and have been a regular visitor since. I cannot recall a year 
> when the foot traffic was as bad as I have seen it this year. There are two 
> signs that instruct visitors to stay in their vehicles that drivers pass 
> before entering the drive and a third reminder after the big left turn before 
> Benning Marsh. However, I can understand how visitors would miss seeing them. 
> I think this is a problem that needs a solution. I would like to speak to the 
> Refuge staff formally about it.  If anyone would like to join me or have me 
> relay his or her thoughts, please contact me offline. Thank you for your time.
> Dr. John Van Niel
> Professor of Environmental Conservation
> Director, East Hill Campus
> Finger Lakes Community College
> 
>
> --
>
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
>
> ARCHIVES:
> 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/m