Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread Roger Rowlett
Without seeing the raw data and watching the integration of frames, I would be suspicious of an incorrect space group assignment with an Rmerge 0.10. Are image spots well-predicted by the integration program (all spots have predictions, all predictions have spots)? Are the spots well-resolved

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Hamid, the statistics for I/sigI and the R-value per resolution shell would shed more light than the overall values. Judging from the Rmerge in the high resolution shell the data may have been processed by somebody who still thinks Rmerge = 30%

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread Jim Pflugrath
[CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of hamid khan [hamid...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 8:19 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values? Dear CCP4BB Members, I am interested in your expert comments/opinions about two values of a protein crystal

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread James Holton
I must disagree with Tim on the statement Rmerge should not be published anymore. That would be a shame. Perhaps even a crime. When Uli Arndt introduced Rmerge he was in no way, shape or form proposing that it be used for resolution cutoffs, or anything else about the quality of the structure.

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread Tim Gruene
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi James, you misquote me: I was saying that Rmeas should be replacing Rmerge, and I guess everything you say holds for Rmeas, too, but still it is a better statistical quantity than Rmerge. So please replace Rmerge with Rmeas. Best, Tim On

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread James Holton
Ahh. But what I'm saying is that Rmeas is not a replacement for Rmerge because Rmeas is _always_ lower than Rmerge. It is even less useful that a low-multiplicity Rmerge for evaluating the diffractometer. I fully realize that Rmeas does have the desirable property of being flatter with respect

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread Felix Frolow
To support James Holton, MAD Scientist From the very far past: In 60's we have estimated X-ray diffraction data by eyes, using strips of intensities made with propagating exposure factor increase of 2 (I guess in F it corresponds to sqrt(2)~=1.4). We have used to estimate our Weissenberg

Re: [ccp4bb] High Rmerge and I/sigma values....?

2013-03-29 Thread James Holton
Woops! Sorry. I was thinking Rpim, which is always lower than Rmerge. Rmeas is always higher, and more correctly estimates the infinite-multiplicity Rmerge. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the many reminders I just got about the definition! -James Holton MAD Scientist On