Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-06 Thread Eleanor Dodson
This could well be due to radiation damage - S are often affected, also Glu and Asp side chains. It is hard to know what to do since the effects are time related. If you have high redundancy maybe you could not use he later batches? Otherwise maybe just relax the B factor restraints and let

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Chris I would say there's something very wrong if you're seeing -6 sigma difference peaks at O atoms. I don't see how this can be explained by radiation damage. I for one have never seen that before in a structure where there weren't other obvious issues (or maybe I just haven't looked hard

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Ian Tickle
PS you say the model is complete, but just as important how complete is (are?) the data. -- Ian On 4 April 2012 16:16, Chris Meier crystallogra...@christophmeier.com wrote: Dear all, I am refining the X-ray structure of a protein: Data to ~2A were collected at a latest-generation synchrotron.

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Roger Rowlett
Radiation damage induced loss of definition of disulfide bridges, side chain carboxylates, and certain histidine residues has been observed in synchrotron-irradiated protein crystals. For example, see Weik et al., PNAS 2000, 97, 623. I have also seen a recent paper where radiation damage of a

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Jacob Keller
I look forward to hearing from others how best to handle this in refinement. Dose-dependent occupancies (tau of an exponential decay function?) refined against unmerged data JPK *** Jacob Pearson Keller Northwestern University Medical Scientist

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Scott Classen
Hello Chris, Are you refining individual atomic B factors or grouped? Perhaps the B factors of the terminal atoms of the side chain are being restrained to too low of a B factor resulting in excessive negative density? Scott On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Chris Meier wrote: Dear all, I am

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Ian Tickle
The PNAS paper you refer to talks about a loss of definition of exposed carboxyl O atoms, i.e. an increase in B factor, but presumably if this is modelled properly then it shouldn't leave a big hole in the difference map. After all, the paper is not claiming that C-O bonds are broken, only that

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread VAN RAAIJ , MARK JOHAN
apart from radation damage it could be a combination of: - too tight restraints on the B-factors - 9 sigma not being that much on a the e/A3 scale, i.e. your difference map is very flat (which is good) and the few peaks that remain stand out a lot, even if their absolute height is low...

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Garib N Murshudov
Dear Chris Could you please try later version of refmac then if the problem persists please let me know. Before making any suggestions it would be good to make sure that the problem is not related with particular software version (as Ian suggested) regards Garib On 4 Apr 2012, at 16:16,

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Yuri Pompeu
could it be that the scattering table would be slightly different for the sulfur atoms at the collected wavelength? Are they Cys or Met residues? if Cys is there a possibility of oxidation to the disulfides?

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Katherine Sippel
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Roger Rowlett rrowl...@colgate.edu wrote: I have also seen a recent paper where radiation damage of a bound protein ligand was apparently observed in a synchrotron beam. That was a manuscript were I would have happily given the coordinates and structure

Re: [ccp4bb] negative difference density around sulphur and oxygen atoms

2012-04-04 Thread Sanishvili, Ruslan
Hi Chris, As has been suggested already, and seems quite plausible to me, it sounds like tell-tale signs of radiation damage. To have little more substance behind this suspicion, some more experimental details could help: What was the dose accumulated during data collection? If the dose cannot