Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread Pavol Skubak
Dear James, your challenge in its current form ignores an important source of information for model building that is available for your simulated data - namely, it does not allow to use anomalous phase information in the model building. In difficult cases on the edge of success such as this one,

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread George Sheldrick
Dear James, I agree with Pavel that your example is not very realistic. In practice one would start from the heavy atom positions. As well as providing starting phases, they are useful in other ways. For example. shelxe (and probably most other tracing programs) adds them to a 'no-go' map so it

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread James Holton
Fair enough! I have just now added DANO and I(+)/I(-) to the files. I'll be very interested to see what you can come up with! For the record, the phases therein came from running mlphare with default parameters but exactly the correct heavy-atom constellation (all the sulfur atoms in

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread James Holton
Fair enough! The heavy atom positions are simply the S atoms in 3dko. There are 22 of them. Also, in this case the Met side chains (12 of those) are 32% occupied with Se. The other 68% is sulfur. I think it is realistic that one could know the extent of Se incorporation ahead of time

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread James Holton
Woops! sorry folks. I made a mistake with the I(+)/I(-) entry. They had the wrong axis convention relative to 3dko and the F in the same file. Sorry about that. The files on the website now should be right. http://bl831.als.lbl.gov/~jamesh/challenge/possible.mtz

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread George Sheldrick
James, I had in fact just come to the conclusion that the indexing was consistent with 3dko for 'possible' but not for 'impossible', which I suppose was logical. George Woops! sorry folks. I made a mistake with the I(+)/I(-) entry. They had the wrong axis convention relative to 3dko and

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread James Holton
I admit that made impossible more difficult to solve than possible, but not in the way I had intended! Again, sorry about that. It is corrected now. The change in indexing arises because I am processing the simulated images with a default run of XDS and as you know the autoindexing picks

Re: [ccp4bb] a challenge

2013-01-12 Thread Pavol Skubak
I can build from the impossible.mtz data in the following two steps: 1. getting the SE substructure from anomalous difference map constructed from impossible.mtz 2. running combined model building using the substructure from step 1 and starting from the impossible.mtz map Only impossible.mtz