[ccp4bb] Repost: Conclusion and further question about Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber
I'm writing this post for three purposes. 1. Thank all the enthusiastic repliers (Jan Kern, Bob Cudney, Zhijie Li, Kris Tesh...). With your help, I finally find the appropriate devices and get other useful advices about my experiment designing. 2. Conclusion of my last post. If you'r looking for a bench top incubator for crystallization, and you're caring about features as follows: a. No compressor.Peltier-based heating/cooling, reducing vibration dramatically. b. Programmable temperature cycling control. c. Temperature rang is from 4~70 Celsius degree. d. Bench top size, small enough with resonable price. e. Designed for crystallization. you can look into these two providers: I. Molecular Dimensions http://www.moleculardimensions.com/shopquestion1.asp?id=3573 MD5-600 27.5L Bench Top (Non Programmable) Incubator MD5-601 27.5L Bench Top (Fully-Programmable) Incubator MD5-602 55L Bench Top (Non Programmable) Incubator MD5-603 55L Bench Top (Fully-Programmable) Incubator Price is about $3k~$4k II. Torrey Pines Scientific http://www.torreypinesscientific.com/products/incubators/echotherm-in30-in35-in40-and-in45-bench-top-incubators Echotherm IN30 (Non Programmable) $2,635.00 Echotherm IN35 (Non Programmable) $3030.00 Echotherm IN40 (Non Programmable) $3,495.00 Echotherm IN45 (Non Programmable) $3,710.00 3. An additional question: Does anyone has exprience to use one of these (or both) devices from the 2 providers before? What's your feeling about the device you bought? Any defects or advantages impress you? If any possible, give me some suggestions or recommedation about which provider I should choose. Thank you again! Jun -- Forwarded message -- From: Jan Kern jfk...@lbl.gov Date: 2012/6/14 Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber To: Jun Ma mrmar2...@gmail.com, CCP4BB@jiscmail.ac.uk Hi Jun, Molecular Dimensions has a programmable temperature incubator (MD 5-601) for about $4500 and Torrey Pines Scientific sells a very similar model (Echotherm IN35) for about $3000. Both are Peltier cooled and go from 4-70 C with a sample chamber of 27 L. Greetings, Jan On 6/14/12 11:57 AM, Jun Ma wrote: Hi everyone, I think my first post did not clearly describe the machine I need. It's very kind of Zhijie and other repliers to reminde me this problem. So I post it again here, try to make it short and clear. Sorry for occupying the space of your mailbox twice. Actually I need a chamber like a culture incubator (regular one for E.coli growth), but this chamber must have both cooling and heating function (b.c. I need low temprature like 4C), and running quietly (vibration seems not good for my crystal). The procedue is like: I put my apparatus into the chamber, set the temperature inside to 4C for 2 hr, and then 25C for 2 hr, and back to 4C for 2hr, and again 25C for 2hr, and so on... So I also need it can be programmed to make a temperature cycling. Thanks for Zhijie again. She/he gave me a lot of help and finally find me this one http://www.scientificindustries.com/envirogenie.html I think except it has not programmed temperature cycling control, every other feature of this machine is perfect, especially it removes compressor (it uses *Peltier controlled Refrigeration and Heating*). Does anyone know better choice for me? Jun Ma -- Forwarded message -- From: Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca Date: 2012/6/13 Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber To: Jun Ma mrmar2...@gmail.com Hi Jun, You had better send this last reply of yours to the CCP4BB. I think this one describes your requirement more clearly than the original post. BTW, I think there must be lots of refrigerated incubators with computer interface around, which you can program the thermo cycles. I found the following one with a serial port(RS232) for controlling online: http://www.scientificindustries.com/envirogenie.html But when there is a built-in compressor, I doubt how quiet it could be. Another concern is, heat conduction by air is always very slow, unless you have a fan to blow air over your apparatus, which also brings vibrations to your system. Zhijie *From:* Jun Ma mrmar2...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:59 PM *To:* Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber Hi Zhijie, Thank you again for quick response. I don't need to change temprature too quickly. Actually a chamber like a culture incubator (for E.coli growth) is good for me, but this chamber must have cooling function (b.c. I need low temprature like 4C), and running quietly (vibration seems not good for my crystal). The procedue is like: I put my apparatus into the chamber, set the temperature inside to 4C for 2 hr, and then 25C for 1 hr, and back to 4C for 2hr, and again 25C for 1hr, and so on... I don't know if I describe what I want clearly this time. I have spent a lot time
[ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber
Hi everyone, I think my first post did not clearly describe the machine I need. It's very kind of Zhijie and other repliers to reminde me this problem. So I post it again here, try to make it short and clear. Sorry for occupying the space of your mailbox twice. Actually I need a chamber like a culture incubator (regular one for E.coli growth), but this chamber must have both cooling and heating function (b.c. I need low temprature like 4C), and running quietly (vibration seems not good for my crystal). The procedue is like: I put my apparatus into the chamber, set the temperature inside to 4C for 2 hr, and then 25C for 2 hr, and back to 4C for 2hr, and again 25C for 2hr, and so on... So I also need it can be programmed to make a temperature cycling. Thanks for Zhijie again. She/he gave me a lot of help and finally find me this one http://www.scientificindustries.com/envirogenie.html I think except it has not programmed temperature cycling control, every other feature of this machine is perfect, especially it removes compressor (it uses *Peltier controlled Refrigeration and Heating*). Does anyone know better choice for me? Jun Ma -- Forwarded message -- From: Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca Date: 2012/6/13 Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber To: Jun Ma mrmar2...@gmail.com ** Hi Jun, You had better send this last reply of yours to the CCP4BB. I think this one describes your requirement more clearly than the original post. BTW, I think there must be lots of refrigerated incubators with computer interface around, which you can program the thermo cycles. I found the following one with a serial port(RS232) for controlling online: http://www.scientificindustries.com/envirogenie.html But when there is a built-in compressor, I doubt how quiet it could be. Another concern is, heat conduction by air is always very slow, unless you have a fan to blow air over your apparatus, which also brings vibrations to your system. Zhijie *From:* Jun Ma mrmar2...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:59 PM *To:* Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber Hi Zhijie, Thank you again for quick response. I don't need to change temprature too quickly. Actually a chamber like a culture incubator (for E.coli growth) is good for me, but this chamber must have cooling function (b.c. I need low temprature like 4C), and running quietly (vibration seems not good for my crystal). The procedue is like: I put my apparatus into the chamber, set the temperature inside to 4C for 2 hr, and then 25C for 1 hr, and back to 4C for 2hr, and again 25C for 1hr, and so on... I don't know if I describe what I want clearly this time. I have spent a lot time for looking for this chamber. I think there must be someone knowing something, out of so many experienced experts on CCP4. Thank you again for taking your time and thoughts to help me. Jun 2012/6/13 Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca ** Hi Jun, How fast do you need the temperature to be changed? One easy way to get very fast temperature change is to prepare water at different temperatures, and circulate the water around your chamber, which of course need to be watertight. If you can find valves that can take computer instructions then you can control the sequence of the water of different temperatures going around your chamber. If you have a constant temperature hot water supply and ice water supply and are not t.o concerned about wasting water, then two proportional valves can do what you want: mix the ice water with the hot water at different ratios then you can get to anywhere in the 0-50C range. I doubt there would be solid block based devices that would allow you to quickly and evenly change your chamber's temperature, as this would need even and efficient heating and cooling of your chamber on all 6 faces, which is difficult to do with solid surfaces. Zhijie *From:* Jun Ma mrmar2...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:36 PM *To:* Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber Hi Zhijie, Thank you for your detailed reply. I'm sorry i didn't describe as clearly as possible. I'm trying to make 2D-crystal, and using a special apparatus, not so big, but cannot fit a regular thermocycler designing for 96-wells plate/PCR. So I need a kind of chamber, in which I can put my apparatus. Do you have any idea about this? Jun 2012/6/13 Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca ** Hi Jun， In this following article an metallic adapter was used to mount a 192 well sitting drop plate on a conventional thermocycler. http://journals.iucr.org/d/issues/2006/05/00/av5047/av5047bdy.html. However I guess there would be significant evaporation and condensation if you use vapor diffusion setup and cycle the temperatures. On the other hand, if you do microbatch under oil, then you
[ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber
Hi everybody, My experiment need me to try a thermo-cycling method for protein crystallization. So I need a kind of temperature chamber, which can changes temperature quickly, precisely and steadily. Furthermore, it should be relatively quiet when running, because I'm afraid vibration will affect the crystallization of my protein. I just need a small one, which can control temperature from 0 C to 50 C. I'm looking for this for some time, and still don't know where to get it. If anyone can provide information about where to purchase, or how to solve the thermo-cycling control if there's no commercial merchandise, I will appreciate that very much. Any other suggestions are welcome. Jun Ma 2012-06-12
