Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites

2013-12-17 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Yes - mlphare did, but so does Phaser_ep E On 16 December 2013 18:46, Bosch, Juergen jubo...@jhsph.edu wrote: Didn't mlphare use to print those values in the log file ? Jürgen On Dec 15, 2013, at 4:29 PM, David Schuller dj...@cornell.edu wrote: I have some SIRAS data of a known structure. I

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites

2013-12-16 Thread Tim Gruene
Hello David, I would use the SAD target function of refmac5 for the anomalous occupancy. As of isomorphous occupancy and phasing power, I don't know. Best, Tim On 12/15/2013 10:29 PM, David Schuller wrote: I have some SIRAS data of a known structure. I want to get the isomorphous and

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites

2013-12-16 Thread Eleanor Dodson
I would find the sites from the PHIC - you need to use CAD to add Fcalc PHIC and FOM to the original data with Fnative Fderiv DANOderiv etc I usually then use SCALEIT to scale native and derivative to Fcalc - then you know you are roughly on an absolute scale Then feed those sites into Phaser_EP

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites

2013-12-16 Thread Bosch, Juergen
Didn't mlphare use to print those values in the log file ? Jürgen On Dec 15, 2013, at 4:29 PM, David Schuller dj...@cornell.edumailto:dj...@cornell.edu wrote: I have some SIRAS data of a known structure. I want to get the isomorphous and anomalous occupancy and phasing power from my data.

[ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites

2013-12-15 Thread David Schuller
I have some SIRAS data of a known structure. I want to get the isomorphous and anomalous occupancy and phasing power from my data. What's the best software to do this? -- === All Things Serve the Beam

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Pu Obviously your SAD SIRAS solutions can't both be right, one must have the inverted handedness: I would guess it's the SIRAS solution that's wrong, since the SAD solution seems to have given you an interpretable map. The reason for getting the wrong hand in the SIRAS case is probably that

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread George M. Sheldrick
Maybe I need to elaborate on Ian's answer. SHELXD or other heavy atom location programs based on Patterson and direct methods have a 50% chance of getting either heavy atom enantiomorph, and in addition different solutions may be related by allowed shifts of the cell origin (8 in P212121).

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Pu Gao
Dear Pro. George, Many thanks for your detailed and clear exposition, which gives me a more clear idea about this question (Although I still don't really understand the basc mathematic things behind it). I rechecked the sharp logs, and found that the original SAD sites were wrong, which

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Jacob Keller
MAD and SIRAS will in general behave like SAD. However if your isomorphous difference is large and the anomalous signal is lost in the noise, they might be dominated by it and so tend to behave more like SIR. I thought that MAD and SIRAS had no hand ambiguity--not true? Jacob Keller

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread George M. Sheldrick
Not true. For MAD and SIRAS you still have to try both hands of the heavy atom substructure (unless the heavy atom arrangement is itself centrosymmetric, then both hands are correct). Maybe I should also mention for completeness, that for the space groups I41, I4122 and F4122 the heavy atoms

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Clemens Vonrhein
Dear Pu, sorry for the long(ish) answer ... handedness/enantiomorph, heavy atom sites and consistency (while using SHARP/autoSHARP) are just one of my favourites ;-) On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 01:39:58PM +0100, Pu Gao wrote: I rechecked the sharp logs, and found that the original SAD sites were

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Pu Gao
Dear all, My case seems to have two factors: 1. origin choice. and 2. handedness/enantiomorph. And this kind of problem seems to be very common during the experimental phasing process. And I learned a lot informations both theoretical and practical from your replies. Many thanks for all

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Gerard Bricogne
Dear Pu, If I may add a few remarks those already made by George and Clemens, I would say that you cannot expect two heavy atom solutions obtained in separate runs of SHELXD (or any other substructure solution program) from two distinct sets of differences to be consistent with each other in

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-20 Thread Clemens Vonrhein
Dear Eleanor at al, On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 05:20:05PM +0100, Eleanor Dodson wrote: There is quite a lot of background to these Qs in a variwty of text books, and something on this website. http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/dist/html/pxmaths/index.html Nice page :-) When changing hand you need to

Re: [ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?- Only them?

2010-08-20 Thread Felix Frolow
The present generation of high throughput structural biologists stays on the intellectual shoulders of the giants of crystallography from past days (modifying GOOGLE). In the military jargon, in the constant wars with the structures, situation described in this exchanges is called encounter.

[ccp4bb] Heavy atom sites?

2010-08-19 Thread Pu Gao
Hi all, I recently solved a structure using SAD or SIRAS successfully (refinement using native data). But I came across some questions about the heave atom (Hg) sites. SG : P212121. Cell: 61.000 137.700 142.170 90.00 90.00 90.00 (native and derivative are very similar). 1. I used shelxD