On 2024/04/09 7:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on such
a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of
ram was remarkable!
Happy computing
Murray
One of my early summer jobs as a
On Fri, 2024-04-12 at 15:13 -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> Yes, variable length "sectors", you'd specify in the JCL what you
> wanted for blocksize of that particular file. If I remember right,
> the block length could vary from one block to the next,
In about 1998, I had to move some
When I said "addressed as disk drives (DASD)" I was referring to IBM's
DASD's (Direct Access Storage Device's) CKD (Count Key Data) format
introduced with the System/360 which supported variable length records, or
as Paul calls them "variable length sectors" on disk drives, data cells and
drums
> On Apr 12, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Tom Gardner via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> Data Cell - Tape, Card or Disk?
>
> I'm pretty sure the developers thought of the media of the IBM 2321 as tape
> rather than cards, although the strips (of tape) were addressed as disk
> drives (DASD) not tape.
Actually,
On 4/12/24 11:10, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:
problems too and in the end I'm told it was a rather successful product.
>
> NCR CRAM (Card Random Access Memory) truly considered magnetic cards as the
> media, see
> https://www.computerhistory.org/brochures/m-p/national-cash-register-company
>
-
From: Paul Koning
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 6:54 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: [cctalk] Re: IBM 360
> On Apr 12, 2024, at 9:48 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk
wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 at 13:31, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>> Yes. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
On Fri, 2024-04-12 at 10:47 +0100, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 at 19:32, Van Snyder via cctalk<
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > An IBM salesman convinced them to try out a 360/30 with a Data
> > Cell.
>
> No idea what a "data cell" is.
> I found this:
>
No worse than automatic tape loaders that push a long strip of tape trough
various feeds and onto a takeup reel where it is made to stick. at least each
of these strips had a handle on it.
In later years all serious computer tape drives had autoloaders, and I think a
few for high end consumer
> On Apr 12, 2024, at 9:48 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 at 13:31, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>> Yes. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell . By the
>> standards of the time it was an unusually high capacity storage device, way
>> faster than
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 at 13:31, Paul Koning wrote:
> Yes. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell . By the
> standards of the time it was an unusually high capacity storage device, way
> faster than a room full of tapes and much larger than the 2311 disk drive.
Fascinating.
> On Apr 12, 2024, at 5:47 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 at 19:32, Van Snyder via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>>
>> An IBM salesman convinced them to try out a 360/30 with a Data Cell.
>
> No idea what a "data cell" is.
>
> I found this:
>
>
On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 at 19:32, Van Snyder via cctalk
wrote:
>
> An IBM salesman convinced them to try out a 360/30 with a Data Cell.
No idea what a "data cell" is.
I found this:
https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/data-cell
At the Eastercon last week, I met a chap who learned to code on
On Wed, 2024-04-10 at 23:52 -0500, CAREY SCHUG wrote:
> I was an operator (summer job and weekends during college), we had a
> bunch of model 30s, each with at least 2 card readers and 2
> printers. most work was BG or F1 running jcl which read in a 1401
> program from cards.
My boss in my first
> On Apr 11, 2024, at 2:42 AM, Joseph S. Barrera III via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 6:36 AM Murray McCullough via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> I don’t think I truly realized the seminal work done at IBM then
>> (60's&70's).
One interesting historic tidbit
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 6:36 AM Murray McCullough via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I don’t think I truly realized the seminal work done at IBM then
> (60's&70's).
*Mandrake:*
Well of course the answer to that is, boy, no one ever *does*.
I was an operator (summer job and weekends during college), we had a bunch of
model 30s, each with at least 2 card readers and 2 printers. most work was BG
or F1 running jcl which read in a 1401 program from cards.
we also had one model 30 with only 32k memory, usually used for check sorting.
Mike,
Hi. My first "computer" was a PDP-8/I with 4k core, high speed reader/punch
and an ASR-33 TTY
that was in the early 1970's. I got it used from a lab that was closing for
$600.00 delivered.
Eventually expanded it to 12k core with 2 DEC tape drives. Loads of fun.
DECus came in handy.
Ken
An excellent trip down memory lane. I no longer have the memory and
cognitive skills I once had but there are events in my life I still
remember and cherish. The first computer I remember working on was the
either the PDP-7 or 8(classmates at that time no longer live here in rural
Ontario to
I want to thank you all for this IBM 360 conversation. It makes me feel
young. My first computer was a PDP-8/L with 4K of core memory and a
Teletype ASR-33. That was 1972 (I was 12).
On 4/10/2024 4:23 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
On Apr 10, 2024, at 5:01 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 5:01 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> I think the 360/67 replaced "Halt and Catch Fire" with "Rewind and
> Break Tape."
I always wondered if that wasn't a standard property of IBM tape drives of that
era. The ones I remember from our 360/44 had capstans
On Wed, 2024-04-10 at 21:28 +0100, osi.superboard via cctalk wrote:
> Check out the Northrop News-Venture Edition 1966 Northrop Aircraft Inc.
> article on installation of an IBM360/64 system, where the training took
> place.
When I was a freshman at Caltech, 1964-65, IBM installed a 360 model
On Wed, 2024-04-10 at 21:28 +0100, osi.superboard via cctalk wrote:
> Yes, 1964, amazing. I remember, I must have some vintage IBM
> training/instruction materials on the 360, 704 and FORTRAN
> programming systems. This came from a long time computer professor
> who took these courses in the early
On Wed, 2024-04-10 at 10:17 -0500, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> The
> 360/25 was a very interesting concept. The microcode was in
> the top 16 KB of main storage,
360/30 microcode was in capacitive ROM, implemented using standard-size
punch cards with little metal rectangles that could be
Yes, 1964, amazing. I remember, I must have some vintage IBM
training/instruction materials on the 360, 704 and FORTRAN programming
systems. This came from a long time computer professor who took these
courses in the early 1960s, Dr. William (Bill) M. Myers (University of
Montana)
It's a
On Wed, 2024-04-10 at 03:45 -0500, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
> you could also use the console to run 1401 emulation without DOS (i
> think 2 options, one loaded in card deck, then allowed typing in
> config, otherwise just turn dials and store stuff into memory.
After loading the
On 4/10/24 10:20, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> OK, never worked on one, I did actually see one in a tour once. So,
> there's a lot I don't know about the /20. Thanks for the correction.
In point of fact, given the constraints posed by the small register file
and lack of instructions, the
I don't know if it was an option. If so, presumably it was included if you
elected the emulator option, since both are intended for running OS/360.
paul
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 1:00 PM, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> I thought you could get regular channels as an optional
On 4/10/24 11:19, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 4/10/24 08:17, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
The 360/20 had only halfword instructions, no float, no char strings.
But, main storage was 16 bits wide.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "char strings", but SS instructions
MVC, MVN, MVZ, CLC,
I thought you could get regular channels as an optional feature?
--Carey
> On 04/10/2024 11:47 AM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>
> > On Apr 10, 2024, at 11:25 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk
> > wrote:
> >
...
> >>
> > ... The model 44 had no channels, there was only direct I/O (a
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 11:25 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On 4/10/24 07:18, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
>> Nearly all the 360s were microcoded, so adding a bit more microcode let them
>> emulate 1400/7000 series computers as a standard optional feature. (well the
>> model 44
On 4/10/24 08:17, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> The 360/20 had only halfword instructions, no float, no char strings.
> But, main storage was 16 bits wide.
>
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "char strings", but SS instructions
MVC, MVN, MVZ, CLC, ED, TR were in the set, (but not, say, TRT,
hmmm, now that you say that, it sounds familiar. was it the model 40 that
could do 1620 emulation then?
--Carey
> On 04/10/2024 10:25 AM CDT Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>
>
> On 4/10/24 07:18, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
> > Nearly all the 360s were microcoded, so adding a bit more
On 4/10/24 08:11, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> On 4/10/24 00:21, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>> What model of a 360? 8K sounds a lot like a Model 20, which the purists
>> may not consider to be a "real" member of the family.
>>
> Yup, the /20
On 4/10/24 07:18, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
Nearly all the 360s were microcoded, so adding a bit more microcode let them
emulate 1400/7000 series computers as a standard optional feature. (well the
model 44 emulated the 1620, and probably the 95/195 could not emulate anything
since they
On 4/10/24 01:51, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, 2024-04-09 at 22:21 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I
worked on
such
a
On 4/10/24 00:21, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
What model of a 360? 8K sounds a lot like a Model 20, which the purists
may not consider to be a "real" member of the family.
Yup, the /20 should have been called a System 180, as it was
about half of a
I remember that building well! My only visit there was at 2 am
though! I had a 6250bpi GCR mag tape and my drive only did 1600, so a
friend who worked there took it from me and converted it.
I thought I would be interrogated by the guard, but apparently
small-hours deliveries were
I remember some early days of my computing years. I visited IBM at Eglinton
E. & Don Mills Rd., its sprawling complex. I knew a project manager from
IBM when he worked at their new facility in Vaughan. I don’t think I truly
realized the seminal work done at IBM then(60's&70's).
Murray
On Wed,
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 8:18 AM, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> Nearly all the 360s were microcoded, so adding a bit more microcode let them
> emulate 1400/7000 series computers as a standard optional feature. (well the
> model 44 emulated the 1620, ...
Um, what?
In college I used a
But we didn't use the tern back then!
On 2024-04-10 07:45, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
Well core memory IS a form of Random Access Memory (RAM) as opposed to
things like delay line memory that is sequential access.
Paul.
On 2024-04-10 7:29 a.m., Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:
RAM?
Nearly all the 360s were microcoded, so adding a bit more microcode let them
emulate 1400/7000 series computers as a standard optional feature. (well the
model 44 emulated the 1620, and probably the 95/195 could not emulate anything
since they were hard wired).
I do not recall that was
Well core memory IS a form of Random Access Memory (RAM) as opposed to
things like delay line memory that is sequential access.
Paul.
On 2024-04-10 7:29 a.m., Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:
RAM? You mean CORE, don't you?
On 2024-04-09 22:53, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
I had not
On 2024-04-10 2:21 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on
such
a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with
RAM? You mean CORE, don't you?
On 2024-04-09 22:53, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on such
a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of
ram was remarkable!
Happy computing
Murray
--
the model 25 was many years later, and IIRC actually faster then the model 30.
there was also a model 22 that was a full 360.
NO, DOS would not run on an 8k machine. the nucleus was 8k (maybe), then 10k,
the 12k, I think even 16k after I had left.
there was also BPS, load it in, then load
A 360 front panel sold for over $4,000 I think much more on eBay recently I
can't believe it I cannot believe it
Sent from AOL on Android
On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:46 PM, Adrian Godwin via
cctalk wrote: And the 'tarpit' book is 50, dated by
the preface.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 6:22 AM
On 4/9/24 23:51, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
> I don't remember whether it was one of the docents at Haus zur
> Geschichte der IBM Datenverarbeitung at Sindelfingen, or at the
> Computer History Museum at Mountain View, who told me that IBM was
> developing a machine to be designated 1480, as
On Tue, 2024-04-09 at 22:21 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
> > On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> > > I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I
> > > worked on
> > > such
> > > a computer in the late 60s
And the 'tarpit' book is 50, dated by the preface.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 6:22 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
> > On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> >> I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old
On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
>> I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on
>> such
>> a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of
>> ram was remarkable!
>>
>> Happy
On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on such
a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of
ram was remarkable!
Happy computing
Murray
Real time sharing, not a 16K PDP 8?
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