[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
> Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage > is the standard. > I think Bill is just being a decent guy and saying that it would cost more to ship it out then the item would cost/be bought for (i.e. $20 for item, $50 to ship) and how that wouldn't be nice or make sense for the buyer. But that is just a guess. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: SOCAL VCF
>I was able to make it, and the weather turned out very fair. > >Here is my summary review of the two days.Sorry about the ticket issue - I >was able to get an online ticket the day >before the event without issue. Steve, Thanks for the excellent write up and the great pictures. It looks like it was a fun, and packed, event. Sorry I missed it. Hopefully I can make it next year. Yeah, I am not sure what the problem was with the tickets and I didn't know if there was going to be tickets available at the door so I opted to skip out on the 55 mile drive. I did finally hear back from Micki. Unfortunately, she didn't reply back to me directly and instead sent a reply to the list which I did not receive until tonight (Sunday) at 2300. It just wasn't meant to be this time around. LOL! -Ali
[cctalk] SOCAL VCF
So did anyone go? How was it? I never heard back from the organizers regarding the ticketing situation despite my, and Sellam's, best efforts so I skipped it. Hopefully, the event went better then the organization and the next one will have the bugs ironed out. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
> > One last question: > > > > Do kids get in free? If so what is the age cutoff? It looks like > > tickets are needed for everyone but figure I would check just in > case. > > > > Never mind... Important to read all the WAY to the END. LOL. Kids 12 > and under are free! Anybody successfully buy tickets? I tried and I get an error that check out isn't working and to contact them. Of course like all good sites they provide absolutely no way to contact them. If anyone has contact info that would be great or if anyone knows that tickets can be purchased at the door? Otherwise hard pass here. No way I am driving to the OC, in possible SoCal rain traffic, without something a bit more solid -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
> One last question: > > Do kids get in free? If so what is the age cutoff? It looks like > tickets are needed for everyone but figure I would check just in case. > Never mind... Important to read all the WAY to the END. LOL. Kids 12 and under are free! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
One last question: Do kids get in free? If so what is the age cutoff? It looks like tickets are needed for everyone but figure I would check just in case. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
> > This VCF SoCal announcement just came into my mailbox this morning so > I'm > passing it along. > Great! Thanks for the info! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
> I am certainly with you on that, Marvin. I have exhibited at 8 or 9 > VCFs (my first was VCF 3) and was on the mailing list as recently as > August 2023 (but apparently no more) and only happened to see the event > being discussed in this forum. Thanks to Wayne Sudol for posting the > information. Odd that a VCF finally comes to my home turf and this is > the one I only find out about two weeks in advance! I have looked at the website for the event and I am still not sure if there will be consignment/sales area. Can anyone verify if there is going to be one or not? Thanks! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
That would be very interesting. I always thought Apricot made some beasts and remeber the cover of Byte for the first 486 system being an Apricot VX. I would love to see that machine in person. Original message From: Christopher Satterfield via cctalk Date: 1/31/24 6:23 AM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: Christopher Satterfield Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal I'm going to be presenting a (fine? idk) collection of British Computers.Dragging along at least an Acorn RiscPC 700, a Castle Iyonix, SinclairSpectrum 48k and a Q68. Possibly static Apricot FP1/F1 if I can be botheredto reassemble them despite their non-functional states.
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
First time I am hearing of this. Are details up on the vcf site?-Ali Original message From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk Date: 1/25/24 11:45 AM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: Sellam Abraham Subject: [cctalk] VCF SoCal I'll be attending VCF SoCal on February 17-18 in Orange (California) in thecapacity of a presenter (on a panel and a solo presentation).Is anyone else planning to attend the event?Sellam
[cctalk] Re: FYI: Hobbes OS/2 Archive logs off permanently in April
Does archive.org have an up to date mirror? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: For Fred, especially: "Everything I know about floppy disks"
> In the 1990s, I started writing about floppy disks, how FM/MFM worked, > IBM/WD > track and sector structure, directory structures, DOS Utilities, disk > repair, > etc. > But, got bogged down with too much to do, such as closing my office, > etc., . . > . Now this would be an interesting book to read depending on the technical background required to understand it. i.e. could a layman such as I understand it or do I need to be an EE w/ CS background? ;) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?
> I'm a little surprised noone mentioned Google sheets or something > that's cloud native? Probably only accessible from newer systems though > but I've debated it since it would be instantly accessible from phone > also. Sheets is a spreadsheet program, right? Spreadsheets, while nice for keeping inventory, aren't great for searching and organizing. For parts and inventory you really need a DB so you can get a list of all of your EISA cards, or all of your 8-bit ISA NICs, etc. One of the best programs (and by far the easiest) that I ever used was File Maker Pro. It had a WYSIWIG design paradigm so you would lay out your form/input sheet/whatever using whatever object you needed - say a drop down box. You would then use the same design to input data and to search. The benefit of setting up a SQL DB is that it can run on a modern server but can have a very simple text interface for searches and editing delivered through a client or plain text web site (running on the same server). As long as you are not getting fancy with your "output" page even Lynx can be used to search and edit the DB.
[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?
> That may be the rub. The installation and update process is... well, > let's just say it > gives me fits and I spent a non-trivial amount of time working out the > procedure. Suffice > it to say that I think quite poorly indeed of composer and yarn, and > really don't think > that there needs to be a software build process for a webapp written in > PHP. > that. What I can > speak to, however, is text mode. Loading my install in Lynx shows a > somewhat bewildering > version of the UI and the ever helpful message "Please activate > Javascript to use all > features," which I think pretty much says it all. I'm not able to do > anything meaningful > with it from Lynx, even after logging in. After looking at it some more and playing with the online model they have for testing my excitement has waned. Add to this the fact that it doesn't let you produce simple pages (a la your issues with Lynx) and I think my search continues. The idea is what I am looking for but this particular execution doesn't do it for me. I may have to buckle down and learn SQL after all... Or some other DB language/program that has been around since the DOS days and is still in use today -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?
> I can think of a couple of options that might be what you're looking > for. The first is > Part-DB-server (https://github.com/Part-DB/Part-DB-server). It was > originally meant for > managing inventories of parts but I've found that it's also good for > managing my inventory > of retrotech. This sounds like something I have been looking for and was actually thinking of learning SQL so I could implement myself. But if someone has already done the heavy lifting... One question: how complex are the web pages it generates? That is can older browsers, or even TEXT based e.g. Lynx, browsers also view inventory and/or edit the DB? I would ideally love a solution that I can access from both my modern systems and the vintage system I am currently working on. TIA -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Death of Mitnick
Well there is his obituary. plus news articles Original message From: steve shumaker via cctalk Date: 7/19/23 7:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: steve shumaker Subject: [cctalk] Re: Death of Mitnick what's your source for this?On 7/19/23 7:35 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:> Maybe this note is off topic but I don't think so: The death of Kevin> Mitnick. His book "Ghost in the Wire" is a classic. Too bad he was a> criminal!>> Murray
[cctalk] Re: OLD ftp.compaq.com Mirror?
> I'm watching a video talking about Protoweb and one of the ftp sites > that they are talking about is ftp.compaq.com. > > The video in question is: > > Link - Protoweb - Reviving the '90s Internet! (Overview & Demo) > - https://youtu.be/1FSd-XhGLqk > > I'm interested in checking out Protoweb for various reasons, but I > figured that I'd let you, and fellow cctalk subscribers, know about the > ftp.compaq.com archive. Grant, Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get to the actual archive on protoweb. I am sure it is some sort of config problem on my end. I will have to play with it some more this weekend. TBH I would be surprised that they have an older mirror/more complete mirror. Archive.org actually has an ok selection of crawls from Compaq.com but they of course never got any files from the FTP. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Shot In the Dark: Compaq System Manager Facility
>compaq-system-config-us-proliant-3000-333.disk1.gz > compaq-system-config-us-proliant-3000-333.disk2.gz > compaq-system-config-us-proliant-3000-333.disk3.gz > compaq-system-config-us-proliant-3000-333.disk4.gz > In my collection that I think I used to configure a Proliant 3000 with EISA > bus. Hi Warner, Thanks but that is the ECU set for EISA systems. This would be far older - i.e. maybe before even the first ServicePaqs came out. I get the feeling Compaq never put it on the FTP because by then they had discontinued the EISA card and replaced it with a new one. So the only way anyone would have one is if they had the card with the original software. -Ali
[cctalk] Shot In the Dark: Compaq System Manager Facility
Really long shot, and I have asked here before without much luck, but anyone have a copy of the Compaq System Manager Facility 1.10 or 1.11 (or any version for that matter). This would have been released in 1994/95 time frame and is necessary for the use of the Compaq Server Manager/R EISA board. This is a very early EISA RILO board for the System Pro and Proliant line of servers. Please note this is not the same as the System Management Agents nor the Insight Manager. TIA! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: OLD ftp.compaq.com Mirror?
> I am surprised the original Compaq diagnostics for 5 1/4"- native > systems > and early DOS and even OS/2 are not someplace Bill, I think those are out there. I believe the last version for DOS was 8.x and that is in the first 500 Softpaqs. I can find the exact number for you if you are interested. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: OLD ftp.compaq.com Mirror?
> I can't help with the mirror, but maybe I can help with the old > spinning > plastic that I have related to ProLiants and / or StorageWorks stuff. > > Please clarify what you're looking for and I'll see if anything I have > is germane. Hi Grant, I am currently looking for the following: Firmware for the MSL5000 Tape Library (version 5.20). The file name would be something like Nextgen_520.bin. The MSL5000 is a rebranded Overland library. Apparently you could have used the original Overland firmware in the MSL5000 as well but Overland doesn't have any of the info/files up on that model any more either after the merger with Tandenberg... The manual for the SW5450 Switch Manual and any FW updates (not sure if there was any). Any FW later then 1.01 for the SW332x series of dual speed switches. TIA! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: OLD ftp.compaq.com Mirror?
> I just found this the other day, but I see the update date in in 2014 > so it may not be of use. > > http://ftp.zx.net.nz/cgi-bin/archive-mirror John, Thanks. Actually I have been talking to David (the maintainer/owner of that mirror) and he doesn't have those files either. > > There is some info about libraries under the Storageworks folder. > > https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/archive/ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storagewo > rks/ Thanks I will check it out. -Ali
[cctalk] OLD ftp.compaq.com Mirror?
Hello All, I am wondering if anyone has a private or knows of a mirror for ftp.compaq.com that is older than 2014? All the ones I have found online, including the file at archive.org, are from 2014. By then a number of files and directories had been purged e.g. "/pub/supportinformation/techpubs" and "softlib1". I am looking for some old documentation and firmware for Compaq switches and Tape Libraries but if anyone has a full set of files I am happy to add them to a mirror. TIA! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Is the list broken again?
> I doubt this will go thru either but other attempts to send to the list > are > > now getting rejected as SPAM. Doesn't the list check addresses to see > if > > the poster is a member? In short: no. The spam filters on the list are antiquated at best
[cctalk] Re: VCF Southwest 2023 some highlights
> VCF SW was this past weekend near Dallas, Texas. > > Here are some highlights from my perspective. > > https://voidstar.blog/vcf-southwest-2023/ > Man there is always cooler stuff at the other VCFs the n VCFW. Just looking at those pictures the Compaq 468 Portable is nice and the NEC Multisync XL immediately caught my eye. I've had my eye out for one of those for a lng time. Nice pictures and thanks for sharing! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Did Bill Gates Really Say That?
>that there were ways to write programs that _would_ fit in > 640K and you should be doing that. That sentiment is an entirely different statement and meaning from the quote which is attributed to him. I won't comment on Dave's videos because I don't have enough "insider" knowledge to say how much is BS and how much is real. His technical stuff sound pretty ok/right and as far as click bait goes well it is YT and that’s how you make money. Linus does the same thing and so do just about any of the other channels out there both computing and non-computing related ones. Just be glad his video thumbnail is not a scantily dressed girl... -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Did Bill Gates Really Say That?
> Based on other videos of Dave's that I've watched he doesn't really > know > what he's talking about so I wouldn't lend much credence to his > apocrypha > either. > Well, I am willing to believe him given the PC World article that I also linked to in my original message And snopes.com But hey everyone is entitled to their beliefs... ;) -Ali
[cctalk] Did Bill Gates Really Say That?
So I had always heard the quote "640KB is enough memory" being attributed to Bill Gates. However, recently I was watching Dave Plummer on YT and he said that it is not true: https://youtu.be/bikbJPI-7Kg?t=372 And apparently the man himself has denied it as well but it just will not go away... https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/PCWorld/story?id=5214635 So I guess like the napkin/disk story and the DR/IBM story this is another one of those vintage myths and folk lore with no real basis in reality -Ali
[cctalk] Re: First non-IBM PC-DOS Compatible PC
> If/when I dig it out, how much should I ask for it? (Berkeley > California) The 5150 or the ROM? :) I don't know about either but prices have been getting ludicrous lately. I would be interested in playing around with the ROM so if you ever dig it up and dump the contents. Or I can always take it off your hands at the next VCF West :D The black power supply might be an indication it is one of the early 64KB 5150s making it worth more... -Ali
[cctalk] Re: First non-IBM PC-DOS Compatible PC
> The 5150, as released in August 1981, had SIX ROM sockets. It had one > 8K > ROM for the BIOS, four 8K ROMs totaling 32K for BASIC, and one empty > socket, which usually stayed empty. A company calling itself MBI sold > an > accessory ROM for that socket thatr added some trivial features. > I always wondered if anyone made use of the extra BIOS sockets. Do you by any chance recall what functions were added? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.
>AH! NUTS! :)>Runs and ducks...That's actually pretty funny and much milder >then what I was screaming...-Ali
[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.
> I heard that Duracell now has a "bitterant" coating on its 2032 > batteries; > so that you will spit it out. Fred, That's been there for a while. It is aimed at babies swallowing coin batteries of all sorts. Mine was pure stupidity. I had spent the whole weekend working on and rebuilding the image on an RPi that I use for a DNS server. I took out the Micro-SD card with the plans to image it for backup. I was munching on a bowl of nuts, tossing them back as it were, while I checked a few last minute things and suddenly I hear a non-nutty crunch. Spit it out and there is a tooth mark right through the Micro-SD. Apparently what I thought was a pistachio was my Micro-SD card. Suffice to say it was no longer working and I had no backup. Choice expletives were spewed throughout that day LOL -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.
> No kidding. That 64GB fingernail can easily hide in clothing Or make it easily edible... Say if you were munching on some nuts while waiting... Ask me how I know *sigh* -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
> > Far more than you wanted to go through: > Fred, Not at all. As always lots of wisdom condensed into a short post. This one is going into my "Posts to Save" folder! > "2.8M" has an unformatted capacity of 4M > The disk that you linked a picture of says "406TPI"! > Therefore, it presumably has about three times as many tracks. (240?), > which, if it does a 1,000,000 bits per second, with track density the > same > as "2.8M", would give it an UNFORMATTED capacity of 12M, and a > formatted > (data) capacity of about 8.5M. > Perfectly predicted and exactly as the PR announcement and info I have found says it should be! >From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats#Physical_compositi on Density Tracks tpi bpi Coercivity Unformatted capacity per side Triple[14] 240 406.5 36,700 6,500 KB -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
Chuck, > Oh, you mean the Japanese TD disks. As far as I know only one machine > was produced that used them, the NEC PC 88-VA3: > > https://necretro.org/PC-88_VA3 Yep, that the one. > > It was an expensive market flop. You might try to hunt down a drive if > you're a collector, but as far as I know, the PC88-VA3 systems never > made it outside of Japan. No interest in collecting. I am just surprised it didn't catch on assuming cost of drive and media wasn't atrocious. In 1989 I was still using a 5160 w/ a 10MB HDD (in fact I ran Win 3 on that machine with a NEC CPU upgrade). Having an almost formatted capacity of 10MB, on even a $10 floppy disk, would have been phenomenal. That’s why I am surprised these floppy alternatives did not catch on especially when the ZIP drive took over the market like wild fire without even offering backward compatibility > > Still have my Caleb UHD144 drives, though--144MB on a 3.5" preformatted > floppy. Drive also reads and writes 1.44M and 720K floppies. >From what I understand the Caleb was too little too late. Zip had already >established dominance and LS120 was on the market. > > And, then there was the Sony HiFD--another disaster. Well when the first generation becomes known for mangling your data I blame Sony and poor execution for that one. If they had done it right a 200MB 3.5" disk drive in the late 90s would have still been awesome especially since it had backwards compatibility. I think the same can be said of the LS240 drives half a decade sooner in introduction and they would have taken over everything. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
> > https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0 > 312/users/4f92de2852282d0c4055f15836cd43f760275f36/i-img1200x675- > 1672137143s8ehmb271085.jpg > Looking at this picture it indicates the disk is 406TPI which is significantly higher than the 96TPI used with 1.2MB HD drives. Also from Wiki: 2TD drive in NEC PC-88 VA3 3 1⁄2-inch TD 1988ca. 9.3 MB 12.5 MB[13] (13 MB unformatted) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
> Sure; consider the very common Samsung SFD-321B, particularly page 5: > > Another type of "tri-Density" drive is the fairly common Teac FD-235J, > which can do 720K, 1.44M and 2.88M. I've got a couple installed in > older systems. Chuck, I don't know if we are talking about different things? You are speaking about a 3 Mode drive that allows 1.2MB on 3.5" drives. I am asking about a Tri Density (as in SD, HD, ED, TD) drive. Supposedly these drives were going to use longitudinal recording (vs. the perpendicular recording used in ED drives) to fit 12.5MB on a 3.5" disk. I had linked a press release in the OP: www-computerwoche-de.translate.goog/a/hitachi-maxell-bietet-nec-neue-12-5-mb-floppy-an,1155888?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp I always thought the Mode 3 drives recorder 1.2MB on a standard 1.44MB floppy (kind of like how QD drives recorded 720KB on a 1.2MB disk). The drives were going to be called: PC FD810.1. Doing a Google search bring up some pictures of disks so maybe the drives did make it out in Japan? https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0312/users/4f92de2852282d0c4055f15836cd43f760275f36/i-img1200x675-1672137143s8ehmb271085.jpg Or am I missing something? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
> Most likely, the 3-mode drive. 8x1024 sectors on each track, giving a > capacity of about 1.23MB. Many PCs of the era could also handle the > drives, which would change spindle speed from 300 to 360 RPM. 3 mode > drives were manufactured right up until the end, but usually were > configured as 2-mode (720/1.44) unless jumpering changes were made to > the drive. Chuck, Yes, R. Stricklin (Bear) verified it as such. So have you ever seen a Tri Density drive? Or was it just a paper announcement that never made it out of the lab? I'd figure if anyone may have seen one it would be you ;) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
> My floptical drive (20MB SCSI) could also handle 1.4M Yes, those could only write 20MB max though. Still pretty cool for the time. > > My 2.8M drive (Micro-Solutions "Backpack" parallel port) could also > handle 1.4M The BackPack drives are nice for quick testing or adding a temporary drive. I have only seen the 2.88MB version once on eBay and it was too rich for my blood. > > My LS120 (IDE) could also handle 1.4M So could the LS240. The LS240 could also write 32MB on a bog standard 1.44MB floppy although with limitations. It was like old school CD-RW. You had to erase the whole disk to make changes... > My Amlyn drives (disk-changer with 5 disks) was 1.2M per disk. The > disks in the changer cartridges were 1.2M, with an extra hole in the > jacket for the changer to grab. I have a similar system for 3.5" disks but for use with the Macintosh: https://www.macintoshrepository.org/26135-jukebox-five https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJsFxLQJaTY The plus side is that it does not need special disks. You can use standard 3.5" floppies. I think the floppy drive did not get its due. I mean for a technology that was so integral to the home computer segment it was very evolutionary and not revolutionary and evolved at a snail's pace. There were obviously some very cool floppy alternatives, which not only improved it but maintained backwards compatibility, but poor market introduction (Sony HiFD), cost (flopticals), or expensive media (ED disks) prevented large scale acceptance. Call me old fashioned but even to this day my new builds (ok my last new build was 10 years ago but still) have a FDD in them. I just feel better knowing I have one in there.
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
> I never had problems with zip disks myself, but never dove into the > floppy > things since the price seemed prohibitive. I can't say either technology has been bad to me. I have found IDE and SCSI zip drives excellent for exchanging large amount of data between vintage and modern system. The LS240 drives are very reliable as well and I have not had any media issues. Plus, like Chuck said, they are so much faster than standard FDDs for regular floppy disks. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
>It’s a 1.2 MB format (360 RPM) as used in the>Japanese market.Ahh so it is a >triple mode drive not a triple density drive. Thanks!
[cctalk] Re: LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
To answer my own question apparently sun made a triple density drive: SUN 370-1420. Based on online pictures it uses a 34pin connector although I believe it is keyed differently than standard floppy drives. Also, I couldn't find any info on its capacity other than the standard 720/1.44. Any Sun enthusiasts can shed some light? -Ali > -Original Message- > From: Ali via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2023 11:11 PM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Cc: Ali > Subject: [cctalk] LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and > ?TD? drives > > In the golden age of the floppy before its downfall caused by CD-R, CD- > RW > and flash USB a number of new technologies were introduced to allow for > cheap removable storage (Yes MO drives existed but they were > expensive). > Many of the tech were a great step forward. For example the LS-240 > drives > from Panasonic/3M (Imation) allowed reading and writing to 120MB, > 240MB, > 1.44MB, and 720KB disks. They were also compatible with weird formats > like > IBM's XDF and even allowed the storage of 32MB on a standard 1.44MB > floppy > disk. To be backwards compatible they used a separate read/write head > for > regular floppies. However, none of the formats with backward > compatibility > read or wrote to 2.88MB ED disks. > > Anybody know why? Was it a licensing issue or the perception that ED > compatibility wasn't really required or desired? Or was it technical? I > am > not sure if ED drives already made use of two read/write heads (one for > 720/1.44 and one for 2.88) or just one? If it is the former one could > see > how it would be hard to have three separate read/write heads in one > unit... > > On a separate note: was a TD (Triple Density) drive ever produced? > Apparently the technology existed all the way back in 1989 and would > have > give 12.5MB on a standard physical sized (3.5") floppy: > https://www-computerwoche-de.translate.goog/a/hitachi-maxell-bietet- > nec-neue > -12-5-mb-floppy- > an,1155888?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wap > p (original in German) > > -Ali > >
[cctalk] LS120, LS240, Floptical Drives and DD, HD, ED, and ?TD? drives
In the golden age of the floppy before its downfall caused by CD-R, CD-RW and flash USB a number of new technologies were introduced to allow for cheap removable storage (Yes MO drives existed but they were expensive). Many of the tech were a great step forward. For example the LS-240 drives from Panasonic/3M (Imation) allowed reading and writing to 120MB, 240MB, 1.44MB, and 720KB disks. They were also compatible with weird formats like IBM's XDF and even allowed the storage of 32MB on a standard 1.44MB floppy disk. To be backwards compatible they used a separate read/write head for regular floppies. However, none of the formats with backward compatibility read or wrote to 2.88MB ED disks. Anybody know why? Was it a licensing issue or the perception that ED compatibility wasn't really required or desired? Or was it technical? I am not sure if ED drives already made use of two read/write heads (one for 720/1.44 and one for 2.88) or just one? If it is the former one could see how it would be hard to have three separate read/write heads in one unit... On a separate note: was a TD (Triple Density) drive ever produced? Apparently the technology existed all the way back in 1989 and would have give 12.5MB on a standard physical sized (3.5") floppy: https://www-computerwoche-de.translate.goog/a/hitachi-maxell-bietet-nec-neue -12-5-mb-floppy-an,1155888?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wap p (original in German) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: NOS Tapes 3 X 3M DC 600A 60MB Cartridges (1991)...(speaking of tapes)
Hi Jared, Please send the invoice for $19.50 to afah...@alumni.usc.edu. I believe once payment is made you should get all the address info. Thanks! -Ali > -Original Message- > From: Parts via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2023 1:28 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: Parts > Subject: [cctalk] Re: NOS Tapes 3 X 3M DC 600A 60MB Cartridges > (1991)...(speaking of tapes) > > Hi Ali, > > Shipping with a tracking number will be $19.50, may I send you a paypal > invoice? Is your paypal account the same e-mail I'm writing to now? > Also, I'll need your full address, zip code alone won't do. > > Jared > > On 2023-03-09 11:15 a.m., John Robertson wrote: > > Hi Ali, > > > > My parts guy Jared should get back to you Saturday or Monday with a > > shipping quote. > > > > John :-#)# > > > > On 2023/03/09 10:29 a.m., Ali wrote: > >> Hi John, > >> > >> Great. The zip code is 91011. Please let me know what shipping is. > >> Unfortunately, I have at times found postage from Canada to be > >> surprising LOL. > >> > >> -Ali > >> > >> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: John Robertson [mailto:j...@flippers.com] > >>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2023 9:29 AM > >>> To: Ali > >>> Cc: pa...@flippers.com > >>> Subject: Re: [cctalk] NOS Tapes 3 X 3M DC 600A 60MB Cartridges > >>> (1991)...(speaking of tapes) > >>> > >>> Hi Ali, > >>> > >>> You are first - please send me your zip code. We charge actual > postage > >>> plus five dollars for packing and mailing - in USD. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> John :-#)# > >>> > >>> On 2023/03/08 6:16 p.m., Ali wrote: > >>>> Hi John, > >>>> > >>>> Are the tapes still available? If so I would be interested in them > as > >>> they can be used with the Cipher 540. Any idea how much shipping > would > >>> be to California? Thank you. > >>>> -Ali > >>>> > >>>>> -Original Message- > >>>>> From: John Robertson via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 3:33 PM > >>>>> To: Bill Degnan via cctalk > >>>>> Cc: John Robertson > >>>>> Subject: [cctalk] NOS Tapes 3 X 3M DC 600A 60MB Cartridges > >>>>> (1991)...(speaking of tapes) > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyone interested in 3 tapes - has Olympics logo - still in > original > >>>>> wrapping? Ether pick up at my shop or pay for postage and > >>> handling... > >>>>> John :-#)# > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> John's Jukes Ltd. > >>>>> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > >>>>> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > >>>>> flippers.com > >>>>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > >>> -- > >>>John's Jukes Ltd. > >>> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > >>> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > >>>flippers.com > >>>"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > >> > > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. > MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 > Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) > flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
[cctalk] Re: Booting from B: (Was: Getting QRST files onto
> anybody remember the numbers for 8"? This is the official KB from MS on the topic: Standard Floppy Disk Formats Supported by MS-DOS === Article ID: 75131 - View products that this article applies to. This article was previously published under Q75131 SUMMARY By using DRIVER.SYS and/or the DRIVPARM command in the CONFIG.SYS file, you can select a variety of floppy disk formats for use with MS-DOS. The tables below describe the standard floppy disk formats supported by various versions of MS-DOS and show the switches used for DRIVER.SYS and FORMAT.EXE. MORE INFORMATION The tables below include information on the following: Number of heads (sides) Number of cylinders (tracks) Number of sectors per track Total number of sectors Number of free sectors Number of sectors per cluster Total number of clusters Number of sectors per FAT (file allocation table) Number of FAT copies Number of root directory sectors Number of reserved sectors Number of hidden sectors Number of bytes per sector Number of bytes per cluster Number of root directory entries The media descriptor byte for each format What recording density was used to create the floppy disk Under what MS-DOS version this format was first supported What parameter to use with DRIVER.SYS for this format What parameter to use with FORMAT.EXE for this format Whether or not the changed-diskette line is supported NOTES 1.The switches shown for DRIVER.SYS can also be used for DRIVPARM. Example: The line "Device=C:\DOS\DRIVER.SYS /D:1 /F:9 /C" in the CONFIG.SYS file specifies that floppy disk drive B is a 2.88-megabyte (MB) 3.5-inch floppy disk drive that supports the changed-diskette line. Example: The line "DRIVPARM=/D:1 /F:9 /C" in the CONFIG.SYS file specifies that the floppy disk drive B is a 2.88-MB 3.5-inch floppy disk drive that supports the Change line. Example: The command "FORMAT B: /F:720" formats a double-sided double-density 720K floppy disk in a 1.44-MB or 2.88-MB 3.5-inch floppy disk drive that is installed in the computer as floppy disk drive B. 2.The following charts refer to "Clusters," whereas MS-DOS 5.0 and later refer to "Allocation Units." These two terms are equivalent and describe the same data structure. 3.Multiple formats with the same DRIVER.SYS switch is NOT an error. 4.Multiple formats with the same media descriptor byte does NOT indicate an error. 5.Valid media descriptor bytes for MS-DOS are listed below: Byte Capacity Media Size and Type --- F0 2.88 MB3.5-inch, 2-sided, 36-sector F0 1.44 MB3.5-inch, 2-sided, 18-sector F9 720K 3.5-inch, 2-sided, 9-sector F9 1.2 MB 5.25-inch, 2-sided, 15-sector FD 360K 5.25-inch, 2-sided, 9-sector FF 320K 5.25-inch, 2-sided, 8-sector FC 180K 5.25-inch, 1-sided, 9-sector FE 160K 5.25-inch, 1-sided, 8-sector FE 250K 8-inch,1-sided, single-density FD 500K 8-inch,2-sided, single-density FE 1.2 MB 8-inch,2-sided, double-density F8 - Fixed disk 6.Both track and cylinder numbers are zero-based. For example, 360K 5.25-inch floppy disks have 40 tracks numbered 0 through 39. Similarly, head numbers and side numbers are also zero-based. For example, 360K 5.25-inch floppy disks have sides 0 and 1 (corresponding to heads 0 and 1). However sectors are one-based. For example, 360K 5.25-inch floppy disks have sectors numbered 1 through 9. Standard Floppy Disk Formats Supported by MS-DOS 3.5 Inch - Formatted Capacity 720K 1.44 MB 2.88 MB # of Heads (Sides) 22 2 # of Cyls (Tracks)80 8080 # of Sectors/Track 9 1836 Total # of Sectors 1440 2880 5760 # of Free Sectors 1426 2847 5726 # Sectors/Cluster 21 2 Total # of Clusters 713 2847 2863 # Sectors/FAT 39 9 # of FAT Copies22 2 # of Root Dir Sectors 7 1415 # Reserved Sectors 11 1 # of Hidden Sectors00 0 # of Bytes/Sector512 512 512 # of Bytes/Cluster 1024 512 1024 # Root Dir Entries 112 224 240 Media Descriptor F9 F0F0 Recorded Density Double High High MS-DOS Version Began3.20 3.30 5.00 DRIVER.SYS Switch /F:2 /F:7 /F:9 FORMAT.EXE Switch /F:720 /F:1.44 /F:2.88
[cctalk] Re: CD-R, DVD-R media available
> For ordinary CD's I've always used MAM-A Gold. Started buying when it > was a Mitsui brand and haven't had a single failure. Chuck, Which brand is MAM-A? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> However, it may well be that writing is the only way to refresh cells, > as reading won't, if I understand flash operation correctly. But > rewriting a sector or block of a file doesn't usually write back to the > original, because of the write-leveling firmware in the drive. Chuck, But does that matter? If the main purpose is to be able to refresh the data so it is readable does it matter that the data is not in the same block as long as it is readable? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> If you just need READ, and not WRITE, howzbout COPY *.* NUL > actually > XCOPY *.* NUL /S/E > to include subdirectories But would a red suffice to refresh or do you need to also write? Also, this solution, and Chuck's, while workable for reads would leave you with a blank screen for a long time (e.g. xcopying to NUL a 512GB or bigger SSD). If I remember Spinrite would read and write each sector back in Level I or II and gave you a constant update I still have a license from long ago I think the last version came out in early 2000s... -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
>It depends on the drive's firmware. Some do background scans of blocks while >idle. Others do not. Since you >have no way of knowing which is which (or even >when the backgroundscan is done), the safest way to force a >scan is to read >the whole drive... any blocks whose raw error count is too high will be >rewritten to fresh >blocks. If it's a good SSD you'll likely not notice this >happening. If it's a crappy thumb drive... you may >be better off copying to >some other media.. Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a program akin to Spinrite that will do that on SSDs (i.e. reread and rewrite every byte). I know Steve Gibson is working on a new version of Spinrite that will work with SSDs so that could be the solution when it comes out... -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> I thought Flash could only hold the data in them X amount of years > until > the junctions discharge or whatever? It's less permanent than decent > quality optical or pro magnetic media? > > You have to plug them in every so often to refresh I believe. Does REFRESHING mean reread and rewrite or just keep power to it? If it's the latter it should be trivial to setup a system with backup battery just to supply voltage to a bunch of SSD drives. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: 5150 cassette (Was: DLOAD BASIC command for Color Comp
> (~$300), monitor (CGA had compoosite output, so could connect to cheap > CCTV, etc. monitors, and CGA even had a dedicated 4 pin Berg for the > SupRMod RF adapter), and maybe serial, and/or parallel. Fred, This is the first time I am hearing about this. I always thought the connector was for light pen input. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus (was: Re: Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man)
> > From NYT website: > > You’ve reached your limit of free articles. > > Purchase a subscription yadda-yadda > > THET! :) > > Don Resor https://sf.funcheap.com/city-guide/ny-times-free/ Problem solved and completely legal... -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus (was: Re: Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man)
> > Hmmm I wonder where The Pentagon buys them to keep the launch > > codes > > on? :-) > > > > > > bill > > > > I believe the Pentagon finally upgraded last year and got rid of the 8" > floppy drives. There used to be one manufacturer that continued to make > and supply them to the government from back East > > -Ali Correction: 2019 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/us/nuclear-weapons-floppy-disks.html -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus (was: Re: Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man)
> Hmmm I wonder where The Pentagon buys them to keep the launch > codes > on? :-) > > > bill > I believe the Pentagon finally upgraded last year and got rid of the 8" floppy drives. There used to be one manufacturer that continued to make and supply them to the government from back East -Ali
[cctalk] Re: the mouse vs. touch sensitive devices
> Bring back the light pen! Have you tried dragging and dropping in Excel with a light pen? OMG, never again ;) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Rejected messages
> I'm glad I'm not the only one having rejections. I noticed a resend > tends to get it onto the list, which seems like a bogus filter (He's a > spammer, DENY!... Um, he sent it again, I guess not, let it > through...:-) > Jim, My understanding on this is that the filter is based on IP address so if your provider has a server name for their SMTP that maps to a number of IPs some could be blocked while others are not. Today, I must be on a "clean" IP! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: the mouse vs. touch sensitive devices
> I find touch pads > superior, make that way superior to that horrific track point used on > old Thinkpads. I am the exact opposite. I love my track point. Hate touch pads. They take up too much real estate, are consistently being touched inappropriately (see what I did there... lol), and are hard to do multi click, and drag and drop operations with them. Touch screens have their uses but I think they are very limited (i.e. works best in an app only environment where interaction is menu/choice based). The younger generation would disagree... -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Rejected messages
> Since the switchover I am getting more and more of my messages > rejected as suspected SPAM. Anyone else seeing this? > > bill Same here bill. I contacted the new list owner and the response was pretty much tough cookies -Ali p.s. It would be interesting to see if this one makes it through! LOL.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs > and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few > people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Chuck, It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: AI applied to vintage interests
> I don't know. I always thought it was kind of a nice idea. Doctors fer > instance are so stupid these days. They need all the help they can get. In what way are they so stupid? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Old Silicon Valley poster
> Not to humble brag, but what do I have here? I probably got > them for free at a trade show. Two idiots? I mean if I bought one poster for $95 and the same seller had a second one I would offer $95 for it again. Why would you offer $300 and then up it to $500? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: ESD Bags
> I buy shield bags from Digi-Key, but not the zip-lock style. I think > Uline has them. Not in this size. Most PCIe cards tend to be smaller in length and can be significantly thicker (think video cards) so the bags that would have fit ISA full length cards are no longer needed/manufactured. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: ESD Bags
> > I don't recall 6 x 14 bags, especially with zip lock tops, when I was > recently looking for a recent need. > > Are you wanting to put full sized PC expansion cards in bags? Hi Grant, Yes. Looking for a catch all bag for cards from half to full size ISA/EISA/MCA cards. I did find 6x14 heat seal bags but that doesn't work for me. I also found some places that do manufacture them but they were all out of stock. > > I ended up buying bigger, (near) 12 x 14 non-zip-lock bags for my full > sized cards. I simply wasted part of the bag, or put two cards in with > a fold down the middle to separate them. I am currently using 9 x 13 zippered ones. They work fine but cards are not snug. However, at $100 for $23 shipped I am not complaining too much. > ProTip: Put the component sides away from each other so that the > boards > lay together best. -- If you want to, put a piece of card board > outside the bag between (like jelly) the two cards (bread) as a buffer. Thanks! -Ali
[cctalk] ESD Bags
Hello, Does anyone have a REASONABLY priced source for 6" x 14" anti-static bags with zip lock tops? I've looked on eBay and Amazon with no luck. I have also looked online and have only found heat sealable bags. I am not sure if it is the sizing which the issue or what as other size bags seems to be easy to find. TIA! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012
> Florida seems to be particularly creative, too: pay your contractor, > contractor doesn't pay their supplier, supplier puts lien on _your_ > house for the money owed. Want to keep your house? Better pay again > and then try to extract that money from the contractor later by > way of the courts. Lien laws are total BS and written by special interest groups. They are also not unique to any one state. They exist in all states. Although some places are slightly better. In CA a lien can't be perfected unless you go to "big court" which costs money and lawyers. So unless you stiffed someone of out of mucho bucks it usually never happens. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Large private collections
>I think one of the primary factors is >how much time the collector has to >dedicate to> their collection.And how much money-Ali
[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012
You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago in non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk Date: 10/17/22 1:31 AM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: Tom Hunter Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist of 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
[cctalk] Re: i860 vs. i960 WAS Intel's i860, Cray-On-A-Chip
> I'm not even sure I'd call them related. The i960 is a very different, > almost > "normal" RISC chip compared to the i860, though it uses Berkeley > register > windows like SPARC. It has excellent XOR performance, so it got used a > lot > later on in RAID arrays (my Apple Network Server 500 has a RAID card > with an > i960 on it). Thanks that explains most of what I have seen. I have also seen it used on a number of SCSI controllers of yore and I believe the HP LJ 4 also used the i960 for its processor. Outside of the Hauppauge 4860 I don't think I have ever seen a PC architecture board with the i860 and I am not even sure how much use the Hauppauge board got out of the i860 except for video processing. -Ali
[cctalk] i860 vs. i960 WAS Intel's i860, Cray-On-A-Chip
I always thought the i960 was an upgrade to the i860 (sort of like i386 to i486 upgrade). However, based on the info on wiki it seems as if the i960 actually came first and although a RISC chip it was in no way in the same league as the i860. Anyone can clarify or verify this? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet
> A testament to the drive quality however, is that I have two such > systems using these drives and both still work flawlessly after 35 > years. Chuck, Out of curiosity what is the model number of the Micropolis drives? I would like to find a picture of them on the net if possible and see this precision-ground lead screw mechanism. Thanks. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]
RESENT FOR LEGIBILITY >I seriously considered getting some custom >napkins printed up (bars >sometimes have personalized napkins; 5.25" is >available, although these >days, bars usually use smaller, just to keep from >making rings on the >tables), with just the outline of a 5.25" disk jacket >printed on them >(perimeter, write enable notch, index hole, and >oval access slot), and a >version of the story, IFF it could be confirmed on >the back Fred, You should just do it and add a teeny tiny disclaimer at the bottom regarding the veracity of the story. It would make for a great gag gift! Or if you want to get real fancy have a QR code that can be scanned on each napkin for a site with more detailed discussion of the events. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]
>I seriously considered getting some custom >napkins printed up (bars >>sometimes have personalized napkins; 5.25" is >available, although these >>days, bars usually use smaller, just to keep from >making rings on the >>tables), with just the outline of a 5.25" disk jacket >printed on them >>(perimeter, write enable notch, index hole, and >oval access slot), and a >>version of the story, IFF it could be confirmed on >the backFred,You should >just do it and add a teeny tiny disclaimer at the bottom regarding the >veracity of the story. It. Would make for a great gag gift! Or if you want to >get real fancy have a qr code that can be scanned on each napkin for a site >with more detailed discussion of the events.-Ali
[cctalk] Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet
> I think it was Dysan that first showed up with reinforcing ring kits to > be applied to disks to ameliorate the problem, but ultimately the > solution turned out to be making sure that the motor was on during the > seating process. That's why, for example, 5.25" DD media usually has > hub reinforcement, but HD media rarely does. By the time HD media was > a > thing, the problem had been solved. Chuck, Then why was is it that DD media bought well after HD media was available, in use, and the norm still had the reinforced ring? Tradition? -Ali
[cctalk] Posts Blocked
Hello All, Since the new hosting has taken over I am having a ton of issues posting to the list. Anyone else experiencing legit posts being blocked as spam? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> What you have been describing, and what no one else seems to have
> twigged to,
> is what we called a TIP ("terminal interface processor") or EtherTIP
> (because
> it sat directly on the 3Mbit/10Mbit Ethernet, unlike the ARPANET TIPs
> that sat
> on a 56Kbit leased line). There were dozens of these scattered across
Rich,
That is quite interesting. I suspected that such devices probably have been
around for a long time in some form or another but I had never heard the
term EtherTIP. As Jonathan pointed out the Lantronix devices have the same
capability by putting them into modem emulation mode and then using the
ADTD(IP ADDRESS:PORT) command. I am not sure how capable the telnet client
is but I would guess it may have been as good as the Cisco boxes. If I do
roll my own Pi solution I at least now know how to properly refer to it :D.
Thanks.
-Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> > When I looked at the manual for the Lantronix UDS1100 I did not see > any mention of it being able to be used as Telnet client. > > PDF Page 54. > > You put it in manual CONNECT mode, modem emulation, and type > "ATDT10.20.30.40:23" on most modern Lantronix devices. I have no > personal experience with the UDS1100, but I've got the UDS10 and UDS100 > devices kicking around the shop. Jonathan, Thanks. That definitely looks like it will do what I need. Not quite as elegant as I had hoped but workable. I am going to look at prices for these units to see how much they are going for used on eBay. I am still interested in the Pi solution as well though as it provides more flexibility and could make for a slicker interface/solution (i.e. terminal client with a phone book) as it would run a full Linux system. I have to see what I can cobble together! -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> Hitting return a few times on the terminal will get the attention of > the > device; e.g. Raspberry Pi, that it's connected to. > > Depending on how said device is configured, you will either get a login > prompt (e.g. getty+login) or a shell prompt (e.g. getty+shell). > > Then you will tell said device to connect to the RAID array's > telnet/serial gateway. Nominally, this could be as simple as `telnet > `. > > At least that's how I would configure things if I wanted to use a > traditional (dumb) terminal to be able to connect to multiple remote > devices. Talk to the serial /server/ and ask it to connect to the > other > device on your behalf. Grant, I agree that is exactly the behavior I want. However, none of the devices that have been suggested seem to do that i.e. connecting a Lantronix UDS1100 to the dumb terminal does not provide a usable telnet CLIENT interface. The device has been designed to act as a telnet SERVER to expose the host (i.e. RAID Controller interface) to the outside via the telnet protocol. Again for most uses this is all you need. You would then use whatever modern device you have with a telnet client to connect to your device. I am throwing a monkey wrench in it by trying to use a 1980s dumb terminal as my I/O device. :) As we discussed any half decent system (a 486, SPARC, etc.) can provide the intelligence to do this. I was hoping there was a purpose built box that could be used in a turnkey manner and be hidden away out of sight for my use. Failing that rolling a Pi system w/ serial HAT or a USB to RS232 adapter maybe the cheapest option as you suggested. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port (Ali)
> What about one of these? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DWLS7DP > > $11.38, and provides four ports. If that's not enough, you could do a > bi-level multiplex arrangement; 5 of these ($56.90) would provide 16 > ports. > Mark, Thanks. This would be a good solution if everything was in the same general area. Plus as part of this project I want to get the devices "on the LAN" which is actually the easy part. I can wire the hosts up to readily available console/terminal servers and they can be accessed from any device with telnet capability (e.g. my mobile phone on the road using VPN). The "fun" part for me was to get an old style dumb terminal to work with the setup hence my original question. That way I could have the dumb terminal on my desk or somewhere convenient and show it off connecting to the different hosts. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> Yeah that's basically it. You can often assign aliases so that e.g. > `CONNECT RAID` executes a Telnet to a specific IP/DNS name, and many > support setting up a default or automatic connection so that as soon as > the terminal autobauds it just connects to whatever the default is. > > Devices like the Lantronix UDS series also allow you to add a virtual > COM port to your OS, so that you see /dev/ttyXX in *NIX (COMx in > Windows) and when you connect to it, you're really going out over > Ethernet to the serial device. Jonathan, When I looked at the manual for the Lantronix UDS1100 I did not see any mention of it being able to be used as Telnet client. However, if it can function as you say that would be perfect. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> 1. If you want to connect an actual Serial Terminal to multiple hosts > the easiest thing to use is a DB-9 or DB-25 switch box. Something like > this: This would work if everything was in the same room. As the devices are in different rooms and floors no joy there without running cable all throughout. > > 2. If you want to be able to connect to multiple serial host over your > LAN one option would be to use any number of a myriad of multiple > serial > port to USB adapters. Something like that: ... > Then you can VNC or RDP (Remote Desktop) into the PC and then > connect to the serial ports with a terminal emulator. > > However, that does not allow you to use your serial terminal. Which as I pointed out in my original post was the whole point for this exercise in futility LOL > 3. If you don't want to run RS-232 cables to your hosts you can use > this to connect them to your network using something like this: > https://www.amazon.com/CERRXIAN-Ethernet-Serial-Device- > Converter/dp/B087J9F6LF/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=rs- > 232+to+ethernet=1659281867=rs-232+to+%2Caps%2C119=8-5 > You connect to your hosts with any TCP/IP capable terminal > emulator. > > However, that does not allow you to use your serial terminal. See above. Thanks. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> You may of course choose to DIY but there have been several common and > cheaply-available-used solutions presented to you. The default behavior > of most terminal servers (single port or otherwise) is, "connect your > terminal, hit RETURN a few times, Telnet/rlogin/SSH/whatever to > whatever host you desire." Hi Jonathan, Can you expand on this? I am not sure how this is supposed to work out. So in my scenario I have a dumb terminal connected to one of the suggested devices. On the other side I have the out of band serial port controller for my RAID connected to a terminal server like the Avocent. The Avocent is presenting the RAID controller as a telnet session. Now how is hitting REIURN a few times on my dumb terminal going to bring up a telnet session much less a telnet session to the host I am interested in? Thanks. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this > nicely. > > IMHO, the Raspberry Pi, et al. qualify here too. Well after looking around a bit last night and my Google fu failing to provide anything worthwhile Grant may be right i.e. there is no device that make a shell or a telnet client available to a terminal and I will have to roll my own. I have absolutely no experience with Raspberry Pi (or any of these mini embedded devices). Looking around it looks like a box would set me back about $130 even if I can get all the parts: RPi 4 w/ case, PSU, heat sinks, etc. $130 (w/ tax etc.): https://www.ebay.com/itm/284826299524 RPi Serial HAT $26: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284910159003 Now I am guessing the Pi 4 is overkill for what I need (text based shell running telnet or another telnet client). So nay advice and guidance is appreciated. Thanks. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> Ali > > I have used the Lantronix UDS1100 for Ethernet/RS232 bridgingmaybe > too pricey new, but available on ePay > Trevor Trevor, I checked out the manual for the Lantronix and while it is a capable server it does not provide a client interface. Thanks. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> I got a Lantroix SCS 400 off of ebay for cheap. 4 Serial DB-9 ports, > one RJ45 LAN port. Has built in Telnet , SSH. I think you can go back > the other way, i.e. Computer -> LAN -> into one of the RS232 ports. > Never used it that way. > > Used it to connect actual terminals to Vax computers, very easy. > Connecting to Linux was hard, Linux doesn't like old style TELNET by > default. Doug, Thanks for the info. I will look and see if I can find the manual for it to check it out. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
> I feel like a Raspberry Pi or similar would fit the bill for this > nicely. > Yes, but it wouldn't be ready to go ;). I would need to find a raspberry pi with a built in serial port and a flavor Linux already loaded on it plus configuration. There are plenty of SERVER devices out there (i.e. take data from the serial console of a device and present it over the LAN via TCP/IP and accessible by Telnet, SSH, even HTTP) so I am hoping someone has a client device as well. -Ali
[cctalk] Connecting a physical terminal via LAN to Serial Port
I am looking for some advice and recommendations on how to best go about accomplishing the following: I have recently come into possession of an actual physical terminal that can be connected to a device via a standard RS232 (serial) port, so far so good. I have a number of devices that can be connected to for maintenance (e.g. FW updates, configuration, etc.) via a serial port. Currently I have been using an old laptop with a terminal program (Procomm Plus) whenever I want to connected to one of these devices. This involves crawling around connecting the serial cable, doing what needs to be done, crawling back disconnecting, rinse and repeat. I can connect the physical terminal to one device at a time and have a permanent connection to that one device, great for one device but not so useful. So I was thinking if it would be possible to do this over the LAN. I know about console servers where I could connect multiple serial devices to the server and then access each device over LAN via a telnet client on a modern system using an IP:port schema. This works great except I don't get to play with my shiny, new to me, authentic experience terminal device. So I am wondering if there is a box that provides a telnet CLIENT to a serial port device? I.E. a box smart enough that handles the telnet client, LAN functions, and terminal emulations internally and then provides a text based interface through a serial port that is compatible with my physical terminal? That way my physical terminal would be connected to the RS232/LAN bridge all the time and I could connected to not only the serial ports connected to the console server but other telnet accessible services as all the heavy lifting would be done on the bridge. I am ideally looking for a ready to go, low power device, I can hide away as opposed to setting up a PC of my own running some *nix flavor that I know can do this but is way over kill. Oh yeah and if it is super cheap even better. Thanks! -Ali
LaserMaster LX-6 Controller
Long shot but I have in my possession a LaserMaster LX-6 controller. The controller allows achieving much higher res from a HP LJII then one would normally be able to (600x300 DPI vs. the standard 300x300 DPI). If you are really interested can read more about it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=2jkWJsu_9CoC=RA1-PA46=HrKHEtLGTu=%22lasermaster%22%20driver=RA1-PA46#v=onepage=true I have all the requisite HW but I am lacking the manual and more importantly the driver SW. I was able to locate multiple copies of the LM website on The Wayback Machine. Unfortunately, while some of the smaller files have been archived all the main EXE and ZIP files are missing. For example see: http://web.archive.org/web/2301145615/http://www.colorspan.com/support/software/software.htm I am wondering if anyone has any drivers for this card. A manual would be most excellent as well but drivers are more necessary. Thanks. -Ali
RE: cleaning up edge connectors
> Once the corrosion is removed I recommend using DC-4 on the > connections. It will protect the surfaces and keep great electrical > connections. It is a silicon grease that is non-conductive but keeps > the surface clean and improves metal to metal electrical contact. It > doesn't allow oxides to build at the contact surfaces. > It has measurable improvements of even gold on gold. I've used it on > solder to solder as well other dissimilar metals with good results. > I've used it on high current connections to reduce resistive heating up > to 1000 amperes. Dwight, Is this what you are talking about: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/dc4.php -Ali
RE: Not just slashed zeroes/ohs
> > Cameron, do they teach indecipherable handwriting in med school? > Seems to be universal! > It's probably the hand cramping after writing clinic notes all day. > Unexpectedly, electronic medical records have made my handwriting > worse, not > better. Well the old excuse was too many notes not enough time So you scribbled and went... Now with electronics records (EMRs) we just get legible but junk notes - copy and paste for a week straight And of course information overload... But that is partly the insurers fault as they pay more for more useless info... -Ali
RE: IBM 5110 (5100) schematics ?
> There was a 5110 on ebay, non-working, that a friend had some interest
> in. It was quite a gamble at the price, in the absence of real tech
> info. ... Apparently it's been delisted, so my question is just
> curiousity at this point.
I think I know the one, and at that price it was insane even for a fully
working system
An observation of the so called non-working systems on e-bay:
This seems to be the latest seller scam being fuelled by crazy prices
(anyone see the $3.3K IBM terminal keyboard that sold a couple of weeks
ago?). I am seeing more and more items from sellers who previously would
tout "great shape", "checked by our in house tech", "refurbished", whatever
other BS as being listed as not-working or even powering on ("system won't
turn on"). I think this is to avoid having to accept returns under the eBay
MB guarantee more than anything. Items being sold for parts/not working have
much less excuse for return vs. "refurbished" which have to work perfectly
fine.
With items selling for prices that would be "crazy" for new old stock item
the eBay sellers don't feel the need to BS about condition anymore. This is
mostly occurring with the warehouse guys that have suddenly found "gold" in
the pile of junk in the back of the warehouse that has been sitting there
since the late 90s/early 2000s. The small time guys or ordinary folks are
still schilling the "worked great when last used but no guarantees" line...
Anybody else seeing this as well?
Just my two cents
-Ali
RE: Compaq Portable brightness knob
>My reply is at the bottom. Please put your reply >there tooIs that for me? >Because my reply is at the bottom. See bottom.>> Out of curiosity does your >brightness >>adjustment work at all? >I'm looking for the actual plastic knob. > The pot >itself seems to work >fine.Sorry can't help you regarding the >plastic knob and I doubt you could find an original Compaq spare shirt of >gutting another unit for parts.When you say the pot is working on yours does >it go the full range of brightness i.e. from zero/off all the way to >100%/maximal brightness? Or does it just slightly dim the screen?Thanks.-Ali
RE: Compaq Portable brightness knob
>Would someone please suggest a replacement >for the Compaq Portable's >>brightness knob? This was missing on mine >when I got it.David,Are >youblooking for the pot or the actual plastic knob?Out of curiosity does your >brightness adjustment work at all? -Ali
RE: WARNING: Clear QIC Tape Bands
> Have you tried Misumi? The only problem I had was that you have to be > VAT > registered. I had a friend order for me. > > https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/223000860382/ > > I used the 150 mm / 6mm variety and as far as I can tell it works > nicely. I > have been running a tape in a Tektronix 4051 for some time and haven > seen > any shedding. Not daily exactly but 20 times over half a year. I second the Misumi brand. I haven't seen any of the issues mentioned on this thread with those bands. Of course I am only a hobbyist so not putting them through any crazy paces. I mainly use them for the 5100 and 5110. They are significantly more expensive then the Amazon mix bag ones but may be worth it. -Ali
RE: tamayatech let down
> Epay has messed the definitions up into a useless mess. > > I'd expect a vendor not selling on such to actually test the items. > Whether they are warranted is a separate issue. > > On ebay they've screwed over sellers to the point that it's all but > wasting time to list there unless you sell either really new stock, or > list as parts, junk only. > > Any attempt to describe the item as refurbished will mean most buyer > will claim a problem, Ebay will refund them and screw you. Not sure what you mean here. Refurbished means that a seller has brought an item to the original operating specs and that the item will operate as it should. This is also eBay's meaning of refurbished. So I am not sure why you think they "screwed" it up. The problem on eBay is that a seller will pull something out of a box that has been sitting on a shelf in the warehouse, at most hit it with some compressed air to get rid of dust, describe it as "refurbished" and list it for an exorbitant price. Whether it works or functions as intended is of no concern to them. With some electronics you can get away with this - simple add-on boards from the IBM PC era for example. Most of the time they will work and if it doesn't well prices or so jacked up that one non-refunded/completed sale will turn enough profit to cover the original S (which is usually the sellers actual real loss) on ten returns and still return a profit. With PSUs, whole systems, stuff with batteries this practice is more likely not to work. Of course my personal favorites are the seller refurbished items that "worked the last time used but no guarantees and are sold as is". LOL. Makeup your mind is it refurbished or is it junk? -Ali
RE: tamayatech let down
> Side question, if I may, but what does "refurbished" mean within the > context of sellers like this? Board [fully] tested and working? Or > simply > "visually good"? Or have components such as electrolytic capacitors > that > might be marginal from old age been tested and replaced with new > components > where necessary? It means the item is actually so worthless that if it doesn't work, we refund you, we still make enough profit on S alone to justify the sale to you. Seriously, none of these guys are looking or testing anything and you would be nuts to think they would actually do any repairs. -Ali
RE: The Prolok Saga (Was: Applesauce FDC
> Vault Corporation produced "Prolok" with a physical defect. To make it > MUCH MORE IMPRESSIVE to investors and clients, instead of a roomful of > people scratching disks with paperclips, they used a "laser > fingerprint" > (use a laser, instead of a paperclip). Which could be defeated w/ the Copy II Plus Enhanced Option board: http://retro.icequake.net/dob/img/eob/ This board had a small bit of onboard RAM that would load info about the defect: "EOB has an extra circuitry that allows it to emulate a burn-hole in a diskette and cause a running application to think that the original diskette is present inside the drive. As it can be understood, the copy of a burn-hole protected diskette can only be executed on a computer equipped with the standard or deluxe EOB. In order to create a working copy of a diskette that is protected by a physically damaged media, the diskette has to be copied using the regular option board methods (TC/TCM), and then the EOB utility PK.COM must be executed in order to analyze the original diskette and locate the exact place of the burn-hole. Once the place has been found, PK saves the data in a file for future use. Every time before the copied diskette is used, the PK application must be executed with the filename that contains the information as a parameter. Then, PK will program the EPROM that is present on the EOB, according to the information inside that file. Whenever the copy protected application tests for the original diskette and tries to read from (or write to) the physically damaged sector, the EOB emulates the very exact behavior of a physically damaged media at the exact place where the burn-hole was, thus confusing the application to think that the original diskette is present inside the drive."
RE: 8" disk drive questions...
> > I guess this is not the deluxe model? > > > https://www.computerhistory.it/images/stories/storia/supporti/8inch_pun > cher. > > jpg > > Well, that one is not the "Berkeley Microcomputer Flip-Jig" > Mine was just a simple plexi pocket with holes for MARKING the disk. > Then, the holes were punched with an ordinary handheld hole punch > I included a stationery store one with a clear blue plastic cover of > the > lower jaw, to avoid scratching the disk and to catch the chad. > (similar to https://www.ebay.com/itm/164142456915 ) Interesting. The article, which is in Italian, seemed to indicate this was the "Berkeley Microcomputer Flip-Jig". However, I guess the picture had nothing to do with the text: "Computers that used the floppy index hole also required two additional openings in the floppy case to allow the drive to access when the disk was upside down. However, it was a difficult and risky operation for the integrity of the support. To facilitate this intervention, there were "guide masks" which allowed to accurately trace the position where the hole was to be made. These tools included the "Berkeley Microcomputer Flip-Jig" which was available for both 8 "and 5" 1/4 discs." -Ali
RE: 8" disk drive questions...
> One of my first products to market, the "Berkeley Microcomputer > FlipJig", > was a plexiglass "pocket" with holes, for marking diskettes for > punching > the extra holes. > The "deluxe" model had a stub spindle on the outside and a ring, for > putting on hub reinforcers. > I guess this is not the deluxe model? https://www.computerhistory.it/images/stories/storia/supporti/8inch_puncher. jpg
RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 85, Issue 3
> That is a DIFFERENT "Fred" > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com Figured as much since it wasn't signed grumpy LOL! Plus never took you for an Alpha man -Ali
RE: Terminal Emulator
> I had mentioned SecureCRT, it is my daily use ssh client. But if we > want to focus on more vintage software, my favorite terminal emulator > is ProComm Plus, made by Datastorm. As it happens, the two original > authors/owners wrote it while living in my area (university). I grew up > using that one, and it is still installed on my move-around-rack-on- > wheels system that provides services to other machines in the > collection (PUTR, etc). > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datastorm_Technologies Procomm was the first terminal program I used that was easy to understand and work with. Of course I was using it mainly to dial BBSes at the time. I stayed with it for a few iterations until I switched over to Telix and finally Terminate (interestingly Terminate's web site forwards to protonmail.com now). There was also Windows version of Procomm which was slower and had more bloatware features while being less reliable. The last probably had to do more with the HW then the SW though. Downloading under windows while multitasking was always a crap shoot! Plus you could not add more protocols easily (e.g. HSLink) since most protocols were written for DOS and not a windows environment. With windows I actually started using ZOC which seemed to run better and more reliably. It was great for a bit but once the internet became a "thing" I walked away from most of the terminal programs. SecureCRT is great and very full featured. I use a very much older cousin called CRT with my headless mini Linux server. Although I have also used it for such mundane tasks as accessing APC UPS consoles and Netgear equipment, and even dialing a BBS. It does support color, but at least for me, it has never been very accurate. -Ali
