[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000

[Brad H via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 3:07 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Sellam Abraham 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 2:24 PM Brad H via cctalk 
wrote:

>> Sometimes.  But a lot of times it's just simply trying to get as much 
>>as possible, which I guess is rational economic behavior.  And the 
>>fault for the high prices is us collectors - ye who bid thousands for 
>> old Apple IIs or $3500 for a Microswitch keyboard.
>>

> This topic is at least as old as the list itself :D

Yup.  

>> I've been hunting for a Sanyo MBC-16 like the ones we had in our 
>> highschool.. there's one on ebay right now.. but despite another 
>> previously selling for less than $300 the seller is absolutely locked 
>> to $999.  And he might be right, someone more motivated than me and to 
>> whom $1000 is no big deal might reward his patience.

>There's one in Germany that's in much nicer shape.  You probably can't do 
>anything about the $154 shipping but you can probably negotiate the $323 
>asking price as it's open to offers.

You mean this one?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144865038347  It was marked sold 
but seems to be back again.  Weird.  Problem with that one is like you said, 
the shipping, plus it's not working, plus it's 220v and I don't know if those 
PSUs have a way to switch to 110V.

Not sure why they're so rare.. I guess they were more of an international 
thing, like my Dad's "Panasonic" Tandy.

>> I've seen that happen with items that sat literally for years on ebay 
>> before selling pretty close to asking.
>>

>I finally sold a MITS Altair 8800 1K Static Mem board last month.  I had it 
>listed for $1,200 (accepted $1,100).  What made it special were the
>(8) Intel C8101 static RAM chips, each of which is worth a small fortune.
>I was willing to sit on it until the right buyer came along, and he did.
>Guilty as charged :)

I sold mine for $120.  I've not seen one go for more than that since.  Is there 
something special about your C8101s?  I don't know my Altair stuff that well.. 
I thought they all had those chips.

I have been thinking about selling my Godbout G8008, as well as the 16 white 
ceramic P1101s I have - I think those are pretty collectible now.

>> It's too bad the various collecting communities can't have the 
>> disarmament equivalent of SALT talks and maybe agree to not keep feeding the 
>> beast.
>> Although I suppose on the upside, the high values mean stuff that 
>> might otherwise get discarded survives.
>>

>I think I've come up with a nice way to get that accomplished through good old 
>market dynamics (i.e. voluntarily) with a subtle twist.

I'm all ears!

Brad

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000

[Brad H via cctalk]

Sometimes.  But a lot of times it's just simply trying to get as much as 
possible, which I guess is rational economic behavior.  And the fault for the 
high prices is us collectors - ye who bid thousands for old Apple IIs or $3500 
for a Microswitch keyboard.  

I've been hunting for a Sanyo MBC-16 like the ones we had in our highschool.. 
there's one on ebay right now.. but despite another previously selling for less 
than $300 the seller is absolutely locked to $999.  And he might be right, 
someone more motivated than me and to whom $1000 is no big deal might reward 
his patience.  I've seen that happen with items that sat literally for years on 
ebay before selling pretty close to asking.

It's too bad the various collecting communities can't have the disarmament 
equivalent of SALT talks and maybe agree to not keep feeding the beast.  
Although I suppose on the upside, the high values mean stuff that might 
otherwise get discarded survives.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Degnan via cctalk  
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 11:38 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Bill Degnan 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991
> >
> Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally 
> rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438
>
> --Chuck
>

I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's 
probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for.  They will wait 
for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might sell if 
you charged $n instead."

It's not an illogical tactic.

Bill

>

[cctalk] Re: Apple 1

[Brad H via cctalk]

Agreed.  I wonder though if Apple eventually founders (always possible - Kodak 
did), if Jobs/Apple will still have quite the same appeal and collector's halo 
effect on their oldest products.  

-Original Message-
From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 2:12 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Sellam Abraham 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Apple 1

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:48 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> The Apple 1 is collectible purely because it was the first product 
> Apple made.


Not really, though that's part of it.  The value of the Apple 1 has more to do 
with the Cult of Steve than anything else.  Steve Jobs became the most 
celebrated CEO of his time.  He was practically a rockstar.  Personally, I 
think the admiration for Jobs turned into cringey idol worship, but the fact is 
millions of people around the world were impacted by the products Apple 
produced under his leadership, and he received the adoration.

As I said previously, the Apple 1 is now an icon, a status symbol for the 
wealthy.  The "Veblen Good" concept absolutely applies here.  They have 
transcended our motley little community of vintage computer enthusiasts.
They will continue to be held in high end collections for generations to come.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Apple 1

[Brad H via cctalk]

Do you have an emotional attachment to it?  I just saw one sell on ebay 
yesterday for $6100.  An e-recycler will have a nice payday on your Altair.  

I'm not too keen on emulation.  Because I never got to experience the earlier 
machines in person (too young), emulation doesn't cut it for me.  My 1970s gear 
isn't nostalgia, it's new experiences.  I want the physical look and feel of 
the original hardware.  It's not the same with an emulator.  Meanwhile, I grew 
up Commodore and have piles of Commodore stuff, but I don't touch any of it 
because 'been there/done that'. 

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 3:32 PM
To: Cameron Kaiser via cctalk 
Cc: Chuck Guzis 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Apple 1

I have a MITS Altair 8800 that I constructed from the kit back in 1975.
 I haven't touched the thing in over 30 years--nor am I likely to.
It'll probably go to the e-recycler (hopefully not the landfill) when I shed 
this mortal coil or simply become incompetent.  IIRC it ran about $1,000--and 
that was without keyboard or display (TVT used).  I didn't use it that long 
because of its rather cheesy construction--I moved to an Integrand S100 box as 
soon as they were available.  Still have that one too--and not an icon to the 
Apple Fanboiz.

There's nothing that the MITS box can do today that an emulator or other 
equipment can.  And in spite of its early appearance, it's not an icon to the 
über wealthy.

--Chuck

[cctalk] Looking for the MAD-1 drive unit

[Brad H via cctalk]

I have 3 of the 4 pieces of Modular Advanced Design's MAD-1 and every now
and again I like to reach out and see if anyone might have the last missing
piece I need.  The MAD-1 is sort of like the evil twin of the Mindset..
although nowhere near the graphics prowess.  Unfortunately like the Mindset
the disk drives are a separate unit and unlike the Mindset the MAD-1 can't
operate without them because the enclosure also contains the PSU for the
whole computer.  The floppy drives are nothing special.. just SA-455 360k. 

 

Anyway, Sellam's msg about trades prompted me to reach out again.  If you
aren't familiar here is a link to a pic of one CHM has.

 

https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X1620.99A

 

Many thanks!!

 

Brad

 

Brad - The Tech Time Traveller

b...@techtimetraveller.com

 

[cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks Rod!

I discovered an immediate problem I hadn't caught before.. two of the trimmer 
resistors had actually been broken right off two of their legs.. so that may 
account for strange/missing voltages.   They are a CONRAC part 928237.  The CRT 
is CONRAC too, but I still don't think this is a CONRAC terminal.  Anyway, I 
only found one source for the exact resistor, an aerospace company, and they 
want $80 per unit (I think they just want me to go away).

So far in testing I haven't found any shorts.  My main worry is the PSU sending 
incorrect voltages to wrong place.  In addition to the broken resistors I also 
discovered some broken solder joints on the PSU PCB.. those at least are 
repaired.  I'm trying to figure out the resistance the two resistors were set 
to so I can put a replacement in with same, hopefully that gets me close to 
what should be there.

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Rod Smallwood via cctalk  
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 8:48 AM
To: Douglas Taylor via cctalk 
Cc: Rod Smallwood 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

I worked on VDU's as an engineer in the UK before joining DEC to sell volume 
VT100's in 1975

There's a mention of block on one of the cards so a block mode terminal.

That means enter data and press a key to send the lot.

The card cage could mean its emulating something.

I'd test as many capacitors as possible. PSU first and replace as required.

Run PSU and check voltages.

  Check each board for power rail to ground shorts.

  If ok give each board +5v on its own and see if the TTL is alive.

If theres a clock gen start there (look for a crystal can)

  Loads of fans might indicate an industrial environment

   At this age some TTL will have failed plus capacitors.

  Rod Smallwood


On 05/07/2023 16:28, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> At first glance it reminded me of the Hazeltine 1000, I owned one in 
> the early 1980's.  Brutally simple terminals, I remember getting a ROM 
> from Jameco which allowed the terminal to display lowercase letters.
> Pure luxury.
> Doug
>
> On 7/4/2023 6:57 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
>> Hi there - not sure how much overlap there is with vcfed's forum, but 
>> thought I would reach out here in case.  I have a terminal from 1974 
>> (based on date codes I've found on the motherboard).  I'm unable to 
>> determine manufacturer and that would be handy for diagnostic 
>> purposes. The terminal casing is made out of foam, and although there 
>> are some serial numbers stamped around, nothing really lines up.  The 
>> fans inside have zero dust or dirt, so I'm thinking this may not have 
>> seen much use, or may be a prototype or pilot for something.  It does 
>> have RS232 capability. Interestingly the screen is set down below the 
>> keyboard so that only half of it is visible.
>>
>>
>> My main issue right now is the PSU - I am trying to determine if I'm 
>> safe to attempt powering up the board (the PSU so far seems to be ok, 
>> although some voltages on a couple of pins are mysterious).
>>
>>
>> Anyway, on the extremely off chance anyone has ever seen one of these 
>> or something like it.. any tips would be appreciated. If I can find a 
>> manual I'll feel a lot safer about turning it on.
>>
>>
>> Some pics here:
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2
>> Qkj?usp
>>
>> =sharing
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> b...@techtimetraveller.com
>>
>>
>

[cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thank you!  I couldn't remember if I'd posted it here before, I've been off
the list for a while.

Because I don't know really anything about it, I'd been operating on the
belief the power sent from the PSU was DC.  So maybe that's my issue.  There
is a single 10 pin connector from the PSU to the motherboard.  I tested for
DC and found the following:

Brown- +5V
Red- +5V
Orange   - +5V
Yellow   - -16V
Green   - +16V
Blue- -0.8V
Purple   - GND
Grey - GND
White- GND
Black- -2.4V

I'm not sure if the +16 and -16v need to be adjusted, or if they are that
high because they don't have a load during my testing.  The -16V is directly
connected to the VEE on a nearby 1488, and I think the max voltage there
should be -15V.

The blue and black are the ones that didn't seem right.  But, if they're not
DC then maybe that's my issue.  Also last night I found more cold solder
joints, so maybe one or both are affected by that.  I will test with my DMM
as AC instead of DC and see if I get something there instead.  Barring that,
I'm working on a schematic of the PSU to try and figure out what it's
supposed to be delivering.

Like I said, very tempting to plug in, I suspect it may be just fine.. but..
there's a lot of chips to blow up here if I'm wrong.

-Original Message-
From: Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 9:11 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Brent Hilpert 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

On 2023-Jul-05, at 8:25 AM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:

> Seems to be RS-232 compatible, which in my experience is unusual for a
terminal in the early half of the 1970s.  It has little serial number
stickers tucked around but they're all random numbers, nothing really lines
up.  A few of the boards have what appears to be serial numbers in the low
hundreds.
> 
> So tempting to just plug in and see what happens, but I'm concerned about
the voltages on two pins that seem off.

What does 'seem off' mean?

One possibility is they are a floating supply for the CRT heater. Not
unusual in those days was just to have an independent 6.3 or 12.6 VAC
secondary on the PS transformer dedicated to the heater and it often
wouldn't be grounded. You could try checking between the two pins with
multimeter ACV range.

This terminal (this specific unit) was mentioned on the list 2 years ago:


https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2021-February/thread.html#57808

2021-Feb-12
Mystery (unusual) 1973 terminal

Around a dozen messages. In one of those messages I list & ref some of the
more-significant ICs from the board photos.

[cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

[Brad H via cctalk]

Seems to be RS-232 compatible, which in my experience is unusual for a terminal 
in the early half of the 1970s.  It has little serial number stickers tucked 
around but they're all random numbers, nothing really lines up.  A few of the 
boards have what appears to be serial numbers in the low hundreds.

So tempting to just plug in and see what happens, but I'm concerned about the 
voltages on two pins that seem off.

-Original Message-
From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 6:54 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Sellam Abraham 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

Brad,

That's a new one on me.

But the split CRT reminds me of a 1970s IBM desk computer (it was a computer 
built into a desk, I forget the model number) and it had a similar display.

I wonder if this isn't some third-party IBM compatible terminal?

Sellam

On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 10:27 PM Brad H via cctalk 
wrote:

> Hi there - not sure how much overlap there is with vcfed's forum, but 
> thought I would reach out here in case.  I have a terminal from 1974 
> (based on date codes I've found on the motherboard).  I'm unable to 
> determine manufacturer and that would be handy for diagnostic 
> purposes.  The terminal casing is made out of foam, and although there 
> are some serial numbers stamped around, nothing really lines up.  The 
> fans inside have zero dust or dirt, so I'm thinking this may not have 
> seen much use, or may be a prototype or pilot for something.  It does 
> have RS232 capability.  Interestingly the screen is set down below the 
> keyboard so that only half of it is visible.
>
>
>
> My main issue right now is the PSU - I am trying to determine if I'm 
> safe to attempt powering up the board (the PSU so far seems to be ok, 
> although some voltages on a couple of pins are mysterious).
>
>
>
> Anyway, on the extremely off chance anyone has ever seen one of these 
> or something like it.. any tips would be appreciated. If I can find a 
> manual I'll feel a lot safer about turning it on.
>
>
>
> Some pics here:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Q
> kj?usp
> =sharing
> <https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2
> Qkj?usp=sharing>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
> b...@techtimetraveller.com
>
>
>
>

[cctalk] 1974 No Name Terminal

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hi there - not sure how much overlap there is with vcfed's forum, but
thought I would reach out here in case.  I have a terminal from 1974 (based
on date codes I've found on the motherboard).  I'm unable to determine
manufacturer and that would be handy for diagnostic purposes.  The terminal
casing is made out of foam, and although there are some serial numbers
stamped around, nothing really lines up.  The fans inside have zero dust or
dirt, so I'm thinking this may not have seen much use, or may be a prototype
or pilot for something.  It does have RS232 capability.  Interestingly the
screen is set down below the keyboard so that only half of it is visible.  

 

My main issue right now is the PSU - I am trying to determine if I'm safe to
attempt powering up the board (the PSU so far seems to be ok, although some
voltages on a couple of pins are mysterious).

 

Anyway, on the extremely off chance anyone has ever seen one of these or
something like it.. any tips would be appreciated. If I can find a manual
I'll feel a lot safer about turning it on.

 

Some pics here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Qkj?usp
=sharing

 

Brad

b...@techtimetraveller.com

 

Re: digital group's Richard Bemis

[Brad H via cctalk]

 According to how he signed off on a letter to Dobbs, his initial was C.

 On Thursday, March 4, 2021, 06:13:40 a.m. PST, John Foust via cctalk 
 wrote:  
 
 At 10:23 PM 3/3/2021, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
>I am working on a 30 minute historical video about the digital group.  For 
>source material there isn't a ton of stuff out there unfortunately and much of 
>the account of what happened to the company comes from the late Dr. Robert 
>Suding.  In his account, Suding sort of points fingers at Richard "Dick" Bemis 
>for mismanagement of the company.  

DG was in Colorado, right?  Do you have a middle initial for him?  

Ancestry.com has a Richard J Bemis divorce in Otero county, CO, in '74.
But nothing else for CO.

- John

  

digital group's Richard Bemis

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hi there,

I am working on a 30 minute historical video about the digital group.  For 
source material there isn't a ton of stuff out there unfortunately and much of 
the account of what happened to the company comes from the late Dr. Robert 
Suding.  In his account, Suding sort of points fingers at Richard "Dick" Bemis 
for mismanagement of the company.  

I am wondering if anyone knows what became of Mr. Bemis after his stint running 
dg.  Apart from a couple of (slightly snarky) letters to Dr. Dobb's Journal 
when dg was still operational, there's literally no trace of him on the 
internet.  If he's still around I'd love to get his side of the story to 
balance things out, or at least find out what he did afterwards.

Thought I'd write here in case anyone knew.

Brad

MSI 6800 EPROM Software

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hi there,

A longshot I'm sure - but I am wondering if anyone familiar with MSI (Midwest 
Scentific - SS50 bus system) would happen to have a copy of the software for 
their 1702A EPROM burner, I think the model is PR-1.  I just picked one up and 
am eager to see if I can use it to read/burn 1702As, something that has been an 
issue for me for a while now.

Many thanks,

Brad

RE: Netronics EX85 BASIC dump

[Brad H via cctalk]

Well now I feel stupid.  But I must have put in about 20 different search terms 
with google and nothing from harte came up.  Only when I specifically googled 
hartechnologies netronics did it show.

Funny enough, I had been in that site before.  Just forgot about it as it was a 
long time ago.

-Original Message-
From: Allison Parent [mailto:allisonporta...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 6:27 PM
To: Brad H ; General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Netronics EX85 BASIC dump

Looked...
Hartetechnologies.com
Look in Netronics folder. 

Phoned this in!


On Jan 10, 2019, at 8:55 PM, Allison Parent  wrote:

Seriously?

You haven’t looked.  Start with bitsavers, then Dave dunfelds old computers. 
That’s from memory as I’m on the phone.  

iPhoned this in!


On Jan 10, 2019, at 6:25 PM, Brad H via cctalk  wrote:

Wondering if anyone has any EPROM dumps of Netronics' BASIC for the 
Explorer/85.  I'd like to set up my own EX/85 for that but also have this 
little Atlantis 8085 board that I was hoping to experiment with.  I've looked 
all over the interwebs and have had no luck finding a dump, although I have 
found reference to people dumping them for backup purposes.



Many thanks!



Brad

Netronics EX85 BASIC dump

[Brad H via cctalk]

Wondering if anyone has any EPROM dumps of Netronics' BASIC for the
Explorer/85.  I'd like to set up my own EX/85 for that but also have this
little Atlantis 8085 board that I was hoping to experiment with.  I've
looked all over the interwebs and have had no luck finding a dump, although
I have found reference to people dumping them for backup purposes.

 

Many thanks!

 

Brad

RE: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

[Brad H via cctalk]

> Some small companies would give employees extreme discounts if they
assembled one themselves using mostly parts which had been deemed too >
>obsolete for production.

I was thinking something like that, or it was repaired at one point and this
particular board was on hand to use as a replacement.

The key would be figuring out what the apparent serial number '1-00494'
means.  

RE: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

[Brad H via cctalk]

I'd love to see a photo of the innards of the prototype if anyone knows
where to find them.  There were 10 built, and someone took a photo recently
enough for it to be of decent quality (the one that appears on
oldcomputers.net).  Someone must have one somewhere.

I think Al might be onto something with the tech manual.  The question is,
how did the revision scheme work?  I have two Revisions noted on the board..
the 2A2011-00 Rev D (in marker), and 3A3005-00 Rev C.   Looking at later
boards like this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/31731875815/in/photostream/ ... It
looks like the trailing 2 digits on the 2A2011 number changed to either 02
or 20.  So is a 2A2011-00 Rev D and a 2A2011-20 Rev D the same thing?
Don't' know.  

And then other boards used a 3A-xx number instead of the 2A2001 number.
Kind of confusing.

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Sam O'nella [mailto:baryth...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 2:48 PM
To: Brad H ; General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

Maybe too easy but have you asked the seller if they know anything about
it's origins? I'd also guess maybe an employee or it could just be one of
the 6 motherboard types as someone else commented. Pretty awesome though
with the low serial. Thanks also for the blog. I had no idea about the
different designs and cases. 

I'm curious which one I have now. 

Sent from my Apple /c

> On Dec 29, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Brad H via cctalk 
wrote:
> 
> Am just posting this as I am hoping someone out there knows someone 
> who was involved with Osborne back in the day to find out more this 
> Osborne 1 motherboard I found in a low serial O1 I picked up for $100.
> 
> 
> 
> I reached out to Lee Felsenstein on it and he suggested it was related 
> to the boards produced for the 10 prototypes Osborne built, or a 
> derivative of them.  He couldn't say for sure how it ended up in mine.  
> But I was hoping if anyone knows any Osborne experts that might help 
> me on this - it is not currently working and I'm hoping to find 
> schematics, etc to get it going again.  Obviously with the radical 
> differences in layout, the schematics for the production motherboard isn't
terribly helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> I've posted a blog about it here with a picture of the board for those
> curious:  http://bradhodge.ca/blog/?p=1186
> 
> 
> 
> Brad
> 

RE: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

[Brad H via cctalk]

There are definitely some differences.

For example, the ROM BIOS on mine is contained on two 2716s instead of a
single 2732 as in the later boards.  There's  a few jumper wires on the
board too.   I imagine it's largely the same, although if it were completely
I'm not sure why they'd do a full redesign and not, like you said, use some
of that extra space for more RAM or something.  Lee himself didn't really
know.. all he said was that that space, in the prototypes, was occupied by
linear voltage regulators that were changed/designed out after.

Maybe what I'll do is make a complete list of the ICs and see how it lines
up with a later production board.  And then compare other components.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
Richardson via cctalk
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 4:21 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

On 12/29/18 2:53 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
> Am just posting this as I am hoping someone out there knows someone 
> who was involved with Osborne back in the day to find out more this 
> Osborne 1 motherboard I found in a low serial O1 I picked up for $100.

Is it just the board layout that's different, or does it appear to be a
completely different animal, schematic-wise? (I mean, is there a possibility
that the common schematics could still be used for fault diagnosis, despite
the different chip locations)

I wonder why the board layout changed? I mean sure there was a lot of unused
space in yours, but it's not like the production boards were physically
smaller. I'm surprised that additional space couldn't have been used for
some other potential future purpose - RAM expansion or whatever.

cheers

Jules

RE: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

[Brad H via cctalk]

Yeah, I'm thinking mine is a Rev C that met the requirements for Rev D (seems 
to be a D in marker).

If the board serial is what's in marker there, and is 1-00494 - that's pretty 
close to the serial, so that would kind of line up.  I just haven't been able 
to find any other machines in the same serial range or even lower that don't 
have the Revision that came after.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via 
cctalk
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 2:09 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard



On 12/29/18 12:53 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:

> I reached out to Lee Felsenstein on it and he suggested it was related 
> to the boards produced for the 10 prototypes Osborne built

I'm pretty sure I threw one of those out about five years ago.

Will dig through the archive to see if there are any earlier schematics seems 
like most out there are for the multi-layer board

the original technical manual mentions there were 6 revs of the pcb


http://bitsavers.org/pdf/osborne/osborne1/2F00153-01_Osborne1TechnicalManual_1982.pdf
 page 13

Osborne-1 with prototype-based motherboard

[Brad H via cctalk]

Am just posting this as I am hoping someone out there knows someone who was
involved with Osborne back in the day to find out more this Osborne 1
motherboard I found in a low serial O1 I picked up for $100.

 

I reached out to Lee Felsenstein on it and he suggested it was related to
the boards produced for the 10 prototypes Osborne built, or a derivative of
them.  He couldn't say for sure how it ended up in mine.  But I was hoping
if anyone knows any Osborne experts that might help me on this - it is not
currently working and I'm hoping to find schematics, etc to get it going
again.  Obviously with the radical differences in layout, the schematics for
the production motherboard isn't terribly helpful.

 

I've posted a blog about it here with a picture of the board for those
curious:  http://bradhodge.ca/blog/?p=1186

 

Brad

Tektronix 6800 Board Bucket and 4051 Working Together Video

[Brad H via cctalk]

I'm not sure how many of you who are on this list are on the vcfed.org
forum, but just for those who aren't, with the help of Dave and Monty from
there, I have recently restored a 4051 I bought a couple years ago to
working condition.  Last night with their guidance I connected it to a
Tektronix development system called the Board Bucket, also a 6800 driven
machine that Tek engineers/employees could buy from Tek (I think in parts)
that I purchased previously.

 

With the 4051 in terminal mode, we were able to demonstrate that the BASIC
in ROM in the Board Bucket can drive graphics on the Tek terminal.  This was
pretty much clear after I dumped the ROMs and Dave had a close look at them,
but it was still very cool to see the two working together nonetheless.  I
feel very privileged to have both one of the products of Tek's computer
development efforts and the development machine used to help create it
(and/or others) in my possession.  

 

Anyway for those interested, I posted a 4 min video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkHRzx5Bno

 

Brad

Re: Tek 40xx computer users

[Brad H via cctalk]

I regret we haven't been able to resusciate my 4051 yet.  Still kills power to 
the main board.
I didn't know there were games for the 40xx machines.  I didn't think they 
could with the limitations of the screen design, although I kinda thought the 
display would work well for, say, an adventure game.
B


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Randy Dawson via cctalk  
Date: 2018-01-06  10:01 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: Randy Dawson , "General Discussion: On-Topic and 
Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Tek 40xx computer users 

This was for Mike Hass, he was not in the email chain, and I do not have his 
address.


But it' s a general shout out to the other Tek 40xx users out there...


Randy



From: cctalk  on behalf of Randy Dawson via 
cctalk 
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:54 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Tek 40xx computer users

Hi Gary,


Well its been a year.


Some news from here:


Micheal Cranford finished his MAXIPACK and FASTGRAPHICS PACK, and the results 
are awesome.

50-100% increase in the graphics speed, and he put all the demos and games on 
the MAXIPACK.


I 3D printed the plastic case for the PACKs and they look good.


I would like to see if we can work together, to clone the ROMs out of the packs 
you have, or see if you are willing to sell duplicates you have.


I really need a communications PACK, my 4051 did not have the comm port.  I 
have no way to transfer data in and out, I was going to attempt it over GPIB, 
bit I did not get very far.


What is new from your end?


I think we are trying to organize a 405x users group, I am talking with a few 
other guys.


Cheers,


Randy



From: cctalk  on behalf of Mike Haas 

Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 8:10 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Tek 40xx computer users

Congrats on your new Tek.    My 4051 pile came from came indirectly from
Gary Spence, who had inhouse involvement with the model. (can't locate his
bio at the moment)  Here's what I got... somewhere:

4051, 2x 4907 Dual 8" floppys, and the "System Test Fixture" front panel, a
box of DC300 tapes
"GAS 6800"  - a Homebrew 4051  (maybe a prototype   4051  ???)

and  these paks:

RS232 I/O compak
dual port memorypack
UNIBURN EPROM burner pack
VIDEOFRAME digitizer
GPIB Enhancement rompack
RS232 Printer Interface
Parallel Interface
Rompack Switch
Data Communications Interface
8k Rom pack
Addressable Data Tracking backpack
IC Analyzer
Editor Pack
Filemanager Pack
Binary Program Loader Pack
Signal Processor Pack
Service Pack
Pack extender board
a few empty packs and several wired edges



On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 10:15 PM, Randy Dawson 
wrote:

> I bought the Tek 4051 on ebay today; Jason brought it to my house and it
> works perfectly, with about a half hour of programming instruction my 12
> old daughter was plotting a cat face.
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/Thelma.Franco/videos/10154277153852670/
Log In or Sign Up to 
View
www.facebook.com
See posts, photos and more on Facebook.


Log In or Sign Up to 
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>
>
> I would like to get in touch with other users of this first personal
> computer, and find additional resources.
>
>
> Do you know where I can find an archive of BASIC programs for this?
>
>
> Has anybody built plug in cards in the back, mine came with a realtime
> clock and a "file manager", I do not know what that one does.
>
>
> I have some Tek scopes with IEE-488, and I will see if I can get the IEEE
> interface working.
>
>
> There was a DC300 tape in the machine:
>
>
> biorithm
>
> craps
>
> blackjack
>
> artillery
>
> tanks
>
> weatherwar
>
>
> The belt is broken in the tape, I have ordered some new DC300's and will
> transplant the tape.
>
>
> Any resources will be welcome!
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>

RE: Dumping my first EPROM

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks Paul.  I found an srec2bin converter and ran that.. it created a 1K bin 
file.  I then opened that with a hex editor (slick edit).. but alas, no 
readable strings.  

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Berger 
via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 11:05 AM
To: Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Dumping my first EPROM

I would convert it to a binary image if you could and then look at it with a 
binary editor.  Most binary editors I have seen show the data in hex and also 
have an eye catcher on the right with the ASCII equivalent to the code points.  
 Trying to find strings in S-records would be a bit painful.

Paul.


On 2018-01-02 2:56 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
> Just posting this here in case it reaches eyes not in other forums I'm on.
>
>   
>
> I decided to embark on a project that involves burning a 2708 EPROM.  
> I've never messed with EPROMs before, so I decided to practice.  What 
> I have is a Microworks 2708 'burner' that came with a SWTPC 6800 
> machine I have.  I figured I'd start by learning how to read 2708s.
>
>   
>
> I only had one 2708 lying around to use.  It was installed on a 
> homebrew 'Dynamicro' board (also known as Jon Titus' MMD-1).  It's 
> strange because the MMD-1 doesn't use 2708s.  This board also had a 
> bunch of ICs on it that are not what the MMD-1 design calls for.  So I 
> thought this'd be an interesting EPROM to read anyway, since it might 
> yield a hint as to what the builder was doing with this board, or if 
> they were just using it to store random ICs.
>
>   
>
> Anyway, I fired up the 6800 with the chip in the ZIF socket of the 
> Microworks board and read the contents into memory.  I then punched it 
> back out to my PC terminal as S records.  That's as far as I got.  I'm 
> wondering now how to actually dig into the contents a bit for clues as to 
> what it is.
> I've seen posts in the past from people who were able to find strings, 
> etc that sort of help as clues.  Does anyone know how I'd go further here?
> Really curious what was on this one.
>
>   
>
> Thanks!
>
>   
>
> Brad
>


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Dumping my first EPROM

[Brad H via cctalk]

Just posting this here in case it reaches eyes not in other forums I'm on.

 

I decided to embark on a project that involves burning a 2708 EPROM.  I've
never messed with EPROMs before, so I decided to practice.  What I have is a
Microworks 2708 'burner' that came with a SWTPC 6800 machine I have.  I
figured I'd start by learning how to read 2708s.

 

I only had one 2708 lying around to use.  It was installed on a homebrew
'Dynamicro' board (also known as Jon Titus' MMD-1).  It's strange because
the MMD-1 doesn't use 2708s.  This board also had a bunch of ICs on it that
are not what the MMD-1 design calls for.  So I thought this'd be an
interesting EPROM to read anyway, since it might yield a hint as to what the
builder was doing with this board, or if they were just using it to store
random ICs.

 

Anyway, I fired up the 6800 with the chip in the ZIF socket of the
Microworks board and read the contents into memory.  I then punched it back
out to my PC terminal as S records.  That's as far as I got.  I'm wondering
now how to actually dig into the contents a bit for clues as to what it is.
I've seen posts in the past from people who were able to find strings, etc
that sort of help as clues.  Does anyone know how I'd go further here?
Really curious what was on this one.

 

Thanks!

 

Brad

Re: Help diagnosing boot issue SWTPC 6800

[Brad H via cctalk]

I had that happening on mine.. came down to a bad RAM board.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Nick Allen via cctalk  
Date: 2018-01-01  10:32 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Help diagnosing boot issue SWTPC 6800 

Hey everyone, Happy New Years!  I am thankful for an active community 
that enjoys helping each other learn, and today I am coming with an ask 
for help.

I have a SWTPC 6800 and ADM3A terminal, I can get it to boot, and when 
it boots it will continue to boot for several hours.  But getting it to 
successfully boot takes upwards of 100 power OFF and ON cycles.  The 
other 99 times, I get a continuous stream of random ASCII characters 
(see video link below).  It's my first time seeing this type of issue 
that happens intermittently, and wondering if anyone has any insights in 
what might be causing this.  I suspect its a faulty IC on the Processor 
board that resets or controls the OS reset, will need to deep dive and 
diagnose, but thought I would ask for some direction first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci4vhPn-3PE

Thanks in advance!

-Nick

Re: CDP1801

[Brad H via cctalk]

I'm going to put it on my list of projects to create a CPU card for my 
Microtutor that uses the 1802 instead I think.  I can get some blue PCB stock.  
As far as I understand the 1802 is fully backward compatible.
Maybe the 1801s will show up on day.  I've found all kinds of chips I was told 
were impossible to locate.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Steven Feinsmith <steven.feinsm...@gmail.com> 
Date: 2017-10-20  7:32 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: CDP1801 

RCA 1801 disappeared from face of Earth forever... You would be better off to 
purchase at:

http://www.sunrise-ev.com/membershipcard.htm to use 1802. The 1802 was very 
successful microprocessor that replaced 1801 because it required to have a pair 
of chips to work together. I believe I saw 1801 was more than 30 years ago.

Good luck!
Steven


On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:
Hi there,







I just purchased an RCA Microtutor minus the rather important CPU card.  I

can recreate the card but I expect locating the 1801 chips will be

difficult.  I am just posting this in various forums in case anyone has any

leads on where I might find either the complete card or the required chips

to make a replacement.  I'm wondering what, if any devices were built with

the 1801 that I might be able to scrounge from.







Thanks again,







B

RE: CDP1801

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks Bill.

I've done some searching under that and TA6889... nothing so far.  I may take a 
suggestion given to me to just figure something out with an 1802 for now.  I 
would imagine even if I could find the pair of 1801s they'd probably be pricey.

The ebay vendor I'm getting this microtutor from is a consignment shop.. I 
asked them if they wouldn't mind asking the vendor to check around for the 
missing board.  Unlikely to bear fruit but you never know!

Brad

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan 
via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 8:32 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>; 
Chuck Guzis <ccl...@sydex.com>
Subject: Re: CDP1801

> On 10/18/2017 06:45 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
>
> > I just purchased an RCA Microtutor minus the rather important CPU
card.  I
> > can recreate the card but I expect locating the 1801 chips will be 
> > difficult.  I am just posting this in various forums in case anyone 
> > has
any
> > leads on where I might find either the complete card or the required
chips
> > to make a replacement.  I'm wondering what, if any devices were 
> > built
with
> > the 1801 that I might be able to scrounge from.
>

You might try searching for tc1084/ tc1085.  The 1801 cpu chips' original 
silkscreen names were not "1801"

Just before the Tutor RCA sold the COSMAC Microkit and it had the earlier 
version of the 1801 chip set:

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=511

Another place to check is auto computers and embedded stuff ... Some if the 
very earlist auto computers had 1802s for sure, maybe some had 1801s.  Dual cpu 
chip 1801s were not prototypes, they were sold for a good year before being 
replaced by the single cpu 1802.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net

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RE: Exidy Sorcerer

[Brad H via cctalk]

Very nice.

I wouldn't mind having a Sorcerer but I'm not sure why they command
Altair-level prices.  There's a guy on ebay from my area with 6 of them and
a bunch of other stuff for $12k.  Won't split them up unfortunately (won't
even answer messages).

Brad

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin
Parker via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 8:07 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Exidy Sorcerer

I was approached directly to see if was interested but a bit out of my price
range so offered to post it here for the seller as it's a very nice "haul" -
I have no relationship to the seller.

Complete retro office setup with an Exidy Sorcerer as the heart. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-computer-with-all-Accessories-for-a-Comp
lete-Retro-Office/192337972953

Kevin parker 


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RE: CDP1801

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks.. I did try searching there but none come up.  1801s I imagine are lot 
more scarce than 1802s.

 

From: Alexandre Souza [mailto:alexandre.tabaj...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 6:51 PM
To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: CDP1801

 

It is easy, find them on aliexpress

 

2017-10-18 23:45 GMT-02:00 Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> >:

Hi there,



I just purchased an RCA Microtutor minus the rather important CPU card.  I
can recreate the card but I expect locating the 1801 chips will be
difficult.  I am just posting this in various forums in case anyone has any
leads on where I might find either the complete card or the required chips
to make a replacement.  I'm wondering what, if any devices were built with
the 1801 that I might be able to scrounge from.



Thanks again,



B

 

 


 
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 

Virus-free.  
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 www.avg.com 

 

CDP1801

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hi there,

 

I just purchased an RCA Microtutor minus the rather important CPU card.  I
can recreate the card but I expect locating the 1801 chips will be
difficult.  I am just posting this in various forums in case anyone has any
leads on where I might find either the complete card or the required chips
to make a replacement.  I'm wondering what, if any devices were built with
the 1801 that I might be able to scrounge from.

 

Thanks again,

 

B

RE: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Brad H via cctalk]

That's really great!  I wish someone like you had been around when I started 
collecting!  Something like this is kind of what I'm thinking of doing with my 
collection once I'm done with it.  But not yet.. still saving up for an Altair. 
:)

You wouldn't be willing to put up pictures somewhere, would you?  Always love 
perusing others' collections.

Brad

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Digital Aeon 
via cctalk
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:25 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

After many years of collecting,  Im tired of moving it all

So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that 
wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.

So if there is anyone out there starting out and wants what I have I will
gladly hand it over to them free of charge.I would like to see this go
to someone who doesn't have anything.


I have apple, commodore, sun, x86 you name it I got it.  about  4 truckloads 
full if not more.

Im located in Mid Michigan

Steve

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RE: Tektronix 4050E01

[Brad H via cctalk]

Okay so I went down to the shop annd...

Yeah still doing what it did before.  Repair guy thought the flash when he
turned it off meant the screen was ok.  He did say he checked the display
board thoroughly and replaced a bad IC - otherwise everything looked good
there.

So we had a poke around and I showed him how the voltages on the motherboard
drop to almost zero when the wire that goes to the display board is plugged
in on power up.  He followed it and noted that in fact, some of the wires on
that cable go further back into the machine.  So he's going to trace that.
Come to think of it, I wonder if that's why the screen isn't flooding when
that cable is plugged in.. maybe the same thing that is shutting down the
motherboard is also shutting down the monitor?

Hopefully it proves to be something simple.  

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Randy
Dawson via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:43 AM
To: Bob Rosenbloom ; General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Tektronix 4050E01

Hi Bob,


I have a 4051, in perfect working order.  I would like to buy one of these
'Toasters' from you.


I could also take your schematic and make more copies of it for others.


What ROMPACKS do you have?


Randy



From: cctalk  on behalf of Bob Rosenbloom via
cctalk 
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 8:24 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Tektronix 4050E01

I'm looking for the schematic of a Tektronix 4050E01 ROM expander (toaster).
This is the one that works with either the Tektronix 4051 or 4052/4054
units. Different than the 4051E01. I have a few to fix. Anyone have a manual
for one that they could scan?

Thanks,

Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
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50=KCASANTA382]

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Like Microcomputers? Apple 1's? Visit the Microcomputer Museum in Virginia.
You can send mail to DVQ via: info (at) dvq (dot) com


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[http://tekmuseum.com/images/tek-museum001002.jpg]

Home [tekmuseum.com]
www.tekmuseum.com
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[http://decmuseum.org/image/obj123geo101pg1p11.jpg]

DEC Computers
www.decmuseum.org
A collection of vintage Digital Equipment Computers. DEC Minicomputers in my
collection. The collection starts with a "Straight 8", the basis for all
later PDP-8 ...




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Re: Tek 4051 semi-repaired

[Brad H via cctalk]

That would be awesome, as long as you aren't putting yourself out.  Any 
information I can give this guy helps.  He is a real wizard and has fixed 
machines in my collection that haven't worked in eons.  But he usually needs 
some kind of referene on what he should be seeing to figure out what is wrong.
Many thanks if you can do it.
Brad


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Randy Dawson <rdawso...@hotmail.com> 
Date: 2017-10-03  8:01 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: 'Pete Lancashire' <p...@petelancashire.com>, Brad H 
<vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and 
Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: Tek 4051 semi-repaired 



I will be glad to open mine up, and 'PhotoFact' it for you.



I can take scope shots of the critical signals, voltage rails.  I suppose the 
first, would be if you hit the HOME PAGE key it should clear the screen, I can 
follow that signal path, and take some scope shots...



Even with the screen flooded,if I let it sit and hit space, not HOME PAGE on my 
working 4051, you can still see the characters you type faintly, and the cursor 
blink.






Randy









From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Brad H via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>

Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 7:10 PM

To: 'Pete Lancashire'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'

Subject: RE: Tek 4051 semi-repaired
 



I’ll have to check that when I get it back – I didn’t really have a look inside 
and wouldn’t have known to look for that.  I’m hoping not.. cosmetically the 
machine is excellent – the interior could almost fool you into thinking you were
 looking into a brand new Mac, with all that stainless.  But that doesn’t mean 
anything in terms of the actual components, of course.



 



My CRT guy seems to be convinced the computer isn’t doing what it should be, 
based on his read of the schematics.  But he said the only way he could be 
really sure was to have a working unit to compare to.



 



From: xyzzy...@gmail.com [mailto:xyzzy...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Pete 
Lancashire

Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 10:01 AM

To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>

Cc: Ian Finder <ian.fin...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Tek 4051 semi-repaired



 



If the CRT floods one can say the CRT is good with one major thing left, 
phosphor burns. In a DVST (Direct View Storage Tube) the most common effect is 
the burn area will not store with the same potential as the rest of the tube, 
or if burned enough will not
 store at all. There are other things that can go wrong but so far you know the 
flood guns are  good, do you see the man CRT gun assemblies filament light up 
(can't remember if can been seen with the shield on) ?



 



Good Luck, while at Tek I kept thinking of building one but never did.



 



-pete



 



On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote:



Also the computer itself *was* semi-working.. with the monitor board 
disconnected, voltages were good and I could blindly type in a simple endless 
loop program and get the ‘BUSY’ light to light up when I ran it.







I don’t have the computer just yet and my tech guy didn’t have time to try 
entering something like that.  So I’ll have to confirm.  He seems to think 
three indicator lights on the right come up on power on now and then go out.  
The power light at the bottom
 appears to be dead.







From: Ian Finder [mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com <mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:39 AM

To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net 
<mailto:vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net> >; General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 >

Subject: Re: Tek 4051 semi-repaired







Does it warm up or flood?







"When I got my 4051, on power up there



would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.

That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or

anything appearing."





Care to share with the class what you've done so far?







On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>  <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>
 > > wrote:



Hi there,







My go-to guy for CRT stuff has informed me that he has the CRT on my 4051

working and that the tube is good.  When I got my 4051, on power up there

would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.

That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or

anything appearing.







Wondering if anyone has any ideas on where to go from here?   I'm picking up

th

RE: Tek 4051 semi-repaired

[Brad H via cctalk]

Also the computer itself *was* semi-working.. with the monitor board 
disconnected, voltages were good and I could blindly type in a simple endless 
loop program and get the ‘BUSY’ light to light up when I ran it.

 

I don’t have the computer just yet and my tech guy didn’t have time to try 
entering something like that.  So I’ll have to confirm.  He seems to think 
three indicator lights on the right come up on power on now and then go out.  
The power light at the bottom appears to be dead.

 

From: Ian Finder [mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:39 AM
To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Tek 4051 semi-repaired

 

Does it warm up or flood? 

 

"When I got my 4051, on power up there

would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.
That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or
anything appearing."


Care to share with the class what you've done so far?

 

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote:

Hi there,



My go-to guy for CRT stuff has informed me that he has the CRT on my 4051
working and that the tube is good.  When I got my 4051, on power up there
would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.
That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or
anything appearing.



Wondering if anyone has any ideas on where to go from here?   I'm picking up
the machine this week and will do some more testing.. hopefully the board
didn't take any damage while he was working on the CRT.



Brad





 

-- 

   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com <mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com> 

 


 
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 

Virus-free.  
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 www.avg.com 

 

RE: Tek 4051 semi-repaired

[Brad H via cctalk]

Yes before the screen would stay dark until you powered off, then there would 
be a brief flood.  Now it floods and stays on but no text.

 

From: Ian Finder [mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:39 AM
To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Tek 4051 semi-repaired

 

Does it warm up or flood? 

 

"When I got my 4051, on power up there

would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.
That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or
anything appearing."


Care to share with the class what you've done so far?

 

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Brad H via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote:

Hi there,



My go-to guy for CRT stuff has informed me that he has the CRT on my 4051
working and that the tube is good.  When I got my 4051, on power up there
would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.
That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or
anything appearing.



Wondering if anyone has any ideas on where to go from here?   I'm picking up
the machine this week and will do some more testing.. hopefully the board
didn't take any damage while he was working on the CRT.



Brad





 

-- 

   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com <mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com> 

 


 
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 

Virus-free.  
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 www.avg.com 

 

Tek 4051 semi-repaired

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hi there,

 

My go-to guy for CRT stuff has informed me that he has the CRT on my 4051
working and that the tube is good.  When I got my 4051, on power up there
would be no voltage to the motherboard and nothing came up on the screen.
That has been fixed, however we still do not have any kind of prompt or
anything appearing.

 

Wondering if anyone has any ideas on where to go from here?   I'm picking up
the machine this week and will do some more testing.. hopefully the board
didn't take any damage while he was working on the CRT.

 

Brad

RE: Announcing: VCF PNW

[Brad H via cctalk]

I agree.. the LCM+L looks awesome.  And really, winter is an ideal time to do 
vintage computer stuff.  Usually our winters are not that bad up here, but this 
last year we had snow on the ground almost continuously through March.  It was 
brutal.

 

Perhaps if weather proves difficult this year, VCF might consider March next 
time?  Esp. with March Break (I think they have that in the US?).. makes it 
easier to travel for those us with kids.

 

From: Michael Brutman [mailto:mbbrut...@brutman.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 10:30 AM
To: Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Announcing: VCF PNW

 

Seattle in mid-February will be damp, but we're in the low-lands here so snow 
is generally not an issue.  But travelling through the passes or through higher 
elevations can be dicey.

 

Once you are here though we'll try to make it good time.  I think the LCM+L 
will be a great venue, and this show will probably look and feel a little 
different from other shows.  The layout of the museum gives us some unique 
opportunities.

 

 

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net 
<mailto:vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net> > wrote:

Ooh.  That might be one to bring my TVT and Mark-8 stuff to, provided we don't 
have another winter like we did last year.  I'm up in BC and we just got 
pounded this year with snow and bad weather.. if it's like that again I'll have 
to pass.. BC drivers are terrible on snow.

 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung device



 Original message 
From: Michael Brutman via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > 
Date: 2017-07-07 12:56 (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > 
Subject: Announcing: VCF PNW 

Vintage Computer Federation is pleased to announce an expansion of the
Vintage Computer Festival series to the Pacific Northwest.

The first VCF PNW will be held at Living Computers: Museum + Labs in
Seattle, Washington on February 10-11, 2018.  Seattle is a rich and vibrant
tech hub with beautiful scenery and every variety of rain possible, but it
has been missing the Vintage Computer Festival experience.  With the
cooperation of the LCM+L we are fixing that by providing a weekend full of
interesting exhibits and even more interesting people in what is already a
great destination.

In the next few weeks we will put out more formal calls for exhibitors,
volunteers, and speakers.  If you would like to chat feel free to reach out
to me at mich...@vcfed.org <mailto:mich...@vcfed.org> .

Vintage Computer Federation is a national user group serving collectors,
hobbyists, and anyone interested in the history of computing.  More
information about the Vintage Computer Federation can be found at
http://vcfed.org/.  Living Computers: Museum + Labs provides a
one-of-a-kind, hands-on experience with computer technology from the 1960s
to the present.  The LCM+L is online at http://www.livingcomputers.org/.


Thanks,
Michael, on behalf of the Vintage Computer Federation

 

 


 
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 

Virus-free.  
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
 www.avg.com 

 

Re: Announcing: VCF PNW

[Brad H via cctalk]

Ooh.  That might be one to bring my TVT and Mark-8 stuff to, provided we don't 
have another winter like we did last year.  I'm up in BC and we just got 
pounded this year with snow and bad weather.. if it's like that again I'll have 
to pass.. BC drivers are terrible on snow.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Michael Brutman via cctalk  
Date: 2017-07-07  12:56  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Announcing: VCF PNW 

Vintage Computer Federation is pleased to announce an expansion of the
Vintage Computer Festival series to the Pacific Northwest.

The first VCF PNW will be held at Living Computers: Museum + Labs in
Seattle, Washington on February 10-11, 2018.  Seattle is a rich and vibrant
tech hub with beautiful scenery and every variety of rain possible, but it
has been missing the Vintage Computer Festival experience.  With the
cooperation of the LCM+L we are fixing that by providing a weekend full of
interesting exhibits and even more interesting people in what is already a
great destination.

In the next few weeks we will put out more formal calls for exhibitors,
volunteers, and speakers.  If you would like to chat feel free to reach out
to me at mich...@vcfed.org.

Vintage Computer Federation is a national user group serving collectors,
hobbyists, and anyone interested in the history of computing.  More
information about the Vintage Computer Federation can be found at
http://vcfed.org/.  Living Computers: Museum + Labs provides a
one-of-a-kind, hands-on experience with computer technology from the 1960s
to the present.  The LCM+L is online at http://www.livingcomputers.org/.


Thanks,
Michael, on behalf of the Vintage Computer Federation

Re: TV Typewriter project nearing completion

[Brad H via cctalk]

 Original message 
From: allison via cctech <cct...@classiccmp.org> 
Date: 2017-06-26  14:50  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cct...@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter project nearing completion 

On 06/26/2017 11:29 AM, Brad H via cctech wrote:
> Thanks Nick!
>
> I had thought about selling PCBs or creating a kit, but I lack the skill to 
> draft it in PCB CAD software.  The boards I made come from scans of the plans 
> (on swtpc.com), and I really had to tweak those to get them to work.  And 
> even then, while I was able to correct for size I missed de-skewing them, so 
> the molex connectors for the bus between boards do not line up perfectly, 
> making connecting boards a bit of a trick.  I hadn't realized just how badly 
> scanning could distort artwork until I got my hands on an original copy of 
> the Radio Electronics construction guide for the Mark-8.  Comparing the 
> artwork in it to the scanned copies online showed just how bad the scanner 
> mangled things.  
>
> Unfortunately I missed a perfect opportunity to acquire an original 
> construction guide when an actual vintage TVT came up on ebay.  The auction 
> was for the TVT and the seller threw in the guide he'd bought.  I lost that 
> auction to Grant Stockly.  As it turns out, he plans to diassemble that TVT, 
> scan the boards and make kits available.  I was disappointed that he was 
> going to dismantle an original piece (he does intend to reassemble it), but 
> am glad some quality kits will come as a result.  We had been negotiating to 
> send my original Mark-8 boards for a scan, since they are unbuilt, but I have 
> been leery about shipping them off to the US ever since they were almost lost 
> in transit to me.
>
> If folks are interested I could make my 'corrected' (photoshopped) artwork 
> available somewhere.  Maybe someone could fix it further.  I may even fix it. 
>  Last week I acquired some actual vintage 1973 PCB stock, and now have an 
> opportunity to go the last mile on authenticity and actually rebuild the TVT 
> with correct PCBs.  That'd make it almost indistinguishable from an original. 
>  But.. it'd also be a ton of (re)work.. 
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Nick Allen 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 12:54 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: TV Typewriter project nearing completion
>
> wow impressive work Brad!  Thanks for blogging about it, it's fun to watch 
> you progress.  Ever consider selling some of the PCB boards, and coming up 
> with a BOM list, so we can recreate some too?
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>

I'll have to pull out the one I built in '75 as my first Altair non TTY
terminal. 
Bet it still works and has the 64 char mod.  The only issue was
>stability of the
>position adjustments.   One shots for >timing... still not a fan.

>Allison

Cool!  Is it the Don Lancaster design or the TVT II by Ed Colle?  Would love to 
see some pictures if you have any.

RE: TV Typewriter project nearing completion

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks Nick!

I had thought about selling PCBs or creating a kit, but I lack the skill to 
draft it in PCB CAD software.  The boards I made come from scans of the plans 
(on swtpc.com), and I really had to tweak those to get them to work.  And even 
then, while I was able to correct for size I missed de-skewing them, so the 
molex connectors for the bus between boards do not line up perfectly, making 
connecting boards a bit of a trick.  I hadn't realized just how badly scanning 
could distort artwork until I got my hands on an original copy of the Radio 
Electronics construction guide for the Mark-8.  Comparing the artwork in it to 
the scanned copies online showed just how bad the scanner mangled things.  

Unfortunately I missed a perfect opportunity to acquire an original 
construction guide when an actual vintage TVT came up on ebay.  The auction was 
for the TVT and the seller threw in the guide he'd bought.  I lost that auction 
to Grant Stockly.  As it turns out, he plans to diassemble that TVT, scan the 
boards and make kits available.  I was disappointed that he was going to 
dismantle an original piece (he does intend to reassemble it), but am glad some 
quality kits will come as a result.  We had been negotiating to send my 
original Mark-8 boards for a scan, since they are unbuilt, but I have been 
leery about shipping them off to the US ever since they were almost lost in 
transit to me.

If folks are interested I could make my 'corrected' (photoshopped) artwork 
available somewhere.  Maybe someone could fix it further.  I may even fix it.  
Last week I acquired some actual vintage 1973 PCB stock, and now have an 
opportunity to go the last mile on authenticity and actually rebuild the TVT 
with correct PCBs.  That'd make it almost indistinguishable from an original.  
But.. it'd also be a ton of (re)work.. 

Brad


-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Nick Allen via 
cctalk
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 12:54 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter project nearing completion

wow impressive work Brad!  Thanks for blogging about it, it's fun to watch you 
progress.  Ever consider selling some of the PCB boards, and coming up with a 
BOM list, so we can recreate some too?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

TV Typewriter project nearing completion

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thought I would post an update here of my progress in recreating Don
Lancaster's original TVT prototype: http://bradhodge.ca/blog/?cat=11

 

Visually I think it's pretty close.  I just ordered the transformer from
Signal Tranformer - the same 24-1A the original used, so I'm pretty keen to
get that in.  Unfortunately I did make a rookie mistake - building
everything piecemeal (as parts came in) rather than in the specific manner
and order suggested by the instructions.  I'm hoping I can get the
'mainframe' board test done with the RF modulator circuitry in place.
Really wouldn't want to take everything apart.

 

On the plus side, if I did - I recently found some vintage blank 1973 PCB
stock.. so I could etch new boards using the actual vintage material Don
would have been using.  Hrmmm.. tempting.. :)

 

Brad

RE: Micral N (1974) for sale

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks for posting this.  I'm very interested to see how collectors value it.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Stéphane 
Tsacas via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:56 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; 
General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only 
Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale

Hi,

If it happens you're in Tours (in France, https://goo.gl/maps/BXNZ4YJixYq) June 
11 2017, a Micral N from 1974 will be auctioned.
More info -- in French -- on the auction house website 
https://www.rouillac.com/fr/news-1252-le_micral_n_premier_micro_ordinateur

Starting price : 20 K€.

Good luck ;-)

--
stéphane tsacas

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Expander Model 1

[Brad H via cctalk]

Curious about this machine.  I've seen a few come up on ebay and they've sold 
for not much money, mistaken as mere Apple II clones.  I read Lee Felsenstein's 
account of creating them and they seem like interesting machines.  Wondering 
what sort of value is reasonable to pay for one and how hard it would be to 
find or rig up a power supply, since they are usually missing that in auctions.

Re: Announcing: VCF Midwest 12!

[Brad H via cctalk]

Very cool!  Wish we had one of these up here in Vancouver, BC.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Jason T via cctalk  
Date: 2017-05-20  6:05 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: chiclassicc...@yahoogroups.com, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts" , The Rescue List  
Subject: Announcing: VCF Midwest 12! 

We did this nerd-fest thing at this hotel last year and no one
complained (much), least of all the hotel, so I think we're up for
another go.

The TWELFTH edition of the Vintage Computer Festival Midwest is
happening September 9th and 10th, 2017 in lovely Elk Grove Village,
Illinois, mere minutes from O'Hare International Airport and an array
suburban shopping and dining opportunities.

Those who have joined us in the past will be happy to know that we're
running the same show (and more!) this year: same location, same
hours, still free to attend, show or sell.  If you're new to VCF
Midwest, you can find all the relevant details at http://vcfmw.org.
If you have any questions not answered there, feel free to contact me
directly.

Registration:
No registration is necessary to attend the show. If you would like a
table(s) for exhibition and/or vending, please contact us via the form
on our site at: http://vcfmw.org/signup.html.  We'll do our best to
get you the space you need.

Presentation:
If you would like to volunteer a talk or demo between 30-60 minutes,
please contact us via the form http://vcfmw.org/pres.html.  Our
friendly events coordinator will get back to you soon.

Accommodation:
Hotel registration is now open!  Follow the link here
http://bit.ly/2phDUyI or at vcfmw.org and reserve your room at our
reduced rate of $89/night. The nights of the 8th, 9th and 10th are
available, with either a single King bed or a dual Queen room. If
you're staying additional nights, they will probably have to be booked
separately at the regular rate - however it's worth calling the hotel
directly at (847) 437-6010 and asking them for the "Vintage Computer
Fes" (yes without the "t") or "VIN" rate on the extra nights. No
guarantees they'll extend it but it's worth a try.  If you have any
other booking needs or difficulties, please call that number as well.
Do not call the main toll-free line for Holiday Inn/IHG. They don't
have the rate code and won't be able to help you.

Hesitation:
Why wait?  Book your room and travel and mark your calendars TODAY.

Socialization:
For Facebook users, there's a FB event here:
https://www.facebook.com/events/805945506224113/
For the tweeting kind, you may follow us at: https://twitter.com/vcfmidwest
Does anyone use Google+ any more?  We have a page here:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/102061024739945029100/102061024739945029100

Donation:
VCF Midwest is a community-supported event, made possible through the
generous donations of attendees, vendors and the organizing staff.  As
such, we humbly beg for your contribution toward the show's expenses,
payable via the PayPal or GoFundMe links on our main page.  Every
donation helps and we appreciate them all.

See you in September!

-j

Re: VCF SE Photos

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks for the pics!
Curious.. the Mark-8 in the museum.. that's a repro, right?  I thought they got 
a few real ones from Bugbook.
Brad


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: william degnan via cctalk  
Date: 2017-05-03  5:03 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: VCF SE Photos 

Here are my photos from the VCF South East April 30/May 1.  Roswell, GA
hosted by Mims' Computer History Museum of America

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=677

SWTPC WAV or TAP files?

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hi there,

 

I was wondering if anyone knew of a repository that had SWTPC tape files
archived (as .WAV, .TAP, etc).  The 6800 system I am presently using is
wired according to original SWTPC specs and does not have a DB25.. so I
cannot simply switch cables from CT1024 to PC terminal like I could with my
other unit.  I'd really like to make use of the AC30 also for a more
authentic experience and was hoping someone had wavs archived somewhere so I
could play them into the AC30 with my phone or something and then record to
actual tape.  For the last couple of evenings I have been manually entering
in the data for TSC BASIC from a txt file Bill Degnan was kind enough to
post.. just doing as much as I can stand to and then saving progress to
tape.  Eventually when it's finished I'll make a wav archive and just use
tape to load it.  Obviously I wouldn't want to do that for every program
though.  Anyway, I know someone on vcfed at one point was talking of setting
up an archive and even had made copies of Tic Tac Toe and 680 BASIC.  Hoping
someone out there knows where those and/or more might be found, or if
there's another way (say using two MP-C/S cards) to pull in S19 files and
then record via AC-30 to tape.

 

Thanks muchly!


B

 

 

 

Re: VCF East pictures

[Brad H via cctalk]

Thanks so much to everyone sharing these.  Ive not renewed my passport in a 
while and can't get to any of these events in the US so I really appreciate 
these.  Maybe someday we can get a 360/VR type tour thing going.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Evan Koblentz via cctalk  
Date: 2017-04-10  12:13 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: VCF East pictures 

VCF East XII was held March 31-April 2. Around 500 people were there.

Adam Michlin's pictures: http://ceos.io/vcf/east/

Dave Riley's pictures: 
http://oscar.the-rileys.net/VCF%20East%20XII%20Photos/

Dan Roganti's pictures: http://www.rogtronics.net/blog/?page_id=730

Mike Loewen's pictures: http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/VCF-East2017/

Herb Johnson's pictures: 
http://www.retrotechnology.com/vcfe12/vcf_east_2017.html


Evan Koblentz, director
Vintage Computer Federation
a 501(c)3 educational non-profit

e...@vcfed.org
(646) 546-

www.vcfed.org
facebook.com/vcfederation
twitter.com/vcfederation

RE: GImix Ghost Video Board

[Brad H via cctalk]

No.. mine has a 2513 character generator.. the one in the ad uses ram based 
character generation.  Based on IC dates my board looks like mid to late 70s.. 
a fair bit earlier than that one.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: dave.g4...@gmail.com 
Date: 2017-03-24  2:16 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: 'Brad H' <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>, "'General Discussion: 
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: RE: GImix Ghost Video Board 

Is it one that's in the catalogue here:-

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/gimix/Gimix_Catalog_Jun82.pdf

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
via
> cctalk
> Sent: 23 March 2017 23:58
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: GImix Ghost Video Board
> 
> Hoping someone might be able to help me on this.
> 
> 
> 
> I got a Gimix Ghost SS50 video board today and was trying to find a
manual.
> I'm sure these were used in Gimix's own ghost systems but the very limited
> info I've come across out there suggests they may have worked with any
> SS50 system.  It basically provides a direct composite video feed out from
the
> computer, I assume bypassing the need for a terminal.  I plugged it in and
> fired it up on my SWTPC 6800 and it is working - I think - it generates a
full
> screen of readable random characters.  However it does not put up anything
> from the computer - that still goes out via terminal.  I'm assuming Ghost
> systems were wired up somehow to use this.. I'm hoping to find a manual
> that explains how.  I don't see a keyboard interface for it anywhere so
maybe
> this went along as a complete Ghost system with hardware I don't have.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks if you have anything!
> 
> 

GImix Ghost Video Board

[Brad H via cctalk]

Hoping someone might be able to help me on this.

 

I got a Gimix Ghost SS50 video board today and was trying to find a manual.
I'm sure these were used in Gimix's own ghost systems but the very limited
info I've come across out there suggests they may have worked with any SS50
system.  It basically provides a direct composite video feed out from the
computer, I assume bypassing the need for a terminal.  I plugged it in and
fired it up on my SWTPC 6800 and it is working - I think - it generates a
full screen of readable random characters.  However it does not put up
anything from the computer - that still goes out via terminal.  I'm assuming
Ghost systems were wired up somehow to use this.. I'm hoping to find a
manual that explains how.  I don't see a keyboard interface for it anywhere
so maybe this went along as a complete Ghost system with hardware I don't
have.

 

Thanks if you have anything!

 

RE: Pair of Twiggys

[Brad H via cctalk]

I'm assuming anything can be interfaced to old tech.  But if I had Twiggys I do 
have a Lisa they could go into.  Or I'd just sell them and buy something a lot 
more useful. :)

What'd be cool if replicas could be made somehow.  I don't know what all goes 
into a disk drive but I imagine it's in the realm of possibility at least.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via 
cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 3:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Pair of Twiggys

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
> I don't know if I'd pay $25k for Twiggys but I understand the impulse. 
> The problem is, what happens when the novelty wears off?  I also  
>wonder what the long term value is as generations that experienced 
>these  things pass on to those who've never known a day withot a smartphone.
> That's a worry for another day though.  For now.. I'm thinking about  
>grabbing a shovel and going digging for Twiggy gold at a certain dump 
>in  Logan.

If you had a pair of Twiggys, but no Lisa, could you create a USB interface to 
use them on a modern machine?

Gimix 8K PROM board

[Brad H]

Hey guys,

 

I have a second SWTPC 6800 system I got recently and have it all running.
It came with a Gimix 8K PROM board and, thankfully, the manual.  It has two
EPROMs installed:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4pq0-BHd2x6R29LVy03d3c4dTA/view?usp=sharin
g

 

I'm assuming this board is used for things like storing BASIC in ROM, etc.
Based on the manual with DIP switch 7 set it is set to use C000 - if I
wanted to try and init whatever is on those chips, would it be as simple as
J C000 at the SWTBUG prompt?

 

Many thanks,


Brad

RE: Altair

[Brad H]

Yes.  That remains an item on my hit list.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 9:21 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Altair

Hi Brad.

I saw your message on the ClassicCmp mailing list about desiring an Altair.
Are you still interested in one?

Sellam

RE: Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1

[Brad H]

I'd assume 0.5mhz -- I have a plain 8008 (not 8008-1).

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 4:53 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1

What clock rate are you using?

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Brad H
<vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 4:24:26 PM
To: dst...@execulink.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1



Ok.  I'm assuming they can work together then?  I have scoured the net and
found a couple of pics of mark-8 boards with a mix of 1101a and 1101a1.. or
maybe thats why they werent working? :)


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: dst...@execulink.com
Date: 2017-01-20  2:54 PM  (GMT-08:00)
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1

On Fri Jan 20 15:19:24 2017 vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net (Brad H)
wrote:
>
> I have some C1101A RAMs I was planning to use in my Mark-8 project.  
> I'm having trouble finding more, as previously mentioned because the 
> price has shot up so much.  I'm wondering, I'm finding lots of P1101A1 
> RAMs with the correct date codes.. are those compatible with 
> C1101A/P1101A?  I don't understand what the 1 at the end signifies.
>

According to my TI manual the 1101A is 1500 ns while the A1 is
1000 ns.

Re: Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1

[Brad H]

Ok.  I'm assuming they can work together then?  I have scoured the net and 
found a couple of pics of mark-8 boards with a mix of 1101a and 1101a1.. or 
maybe thats why they werent working? :)


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: dst...@execulink.com 
Date: 2017-01-20  2:54 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1 

On Fri Jan 20 15:19:24 2017 vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net (Brad H) wrote:
> 
> I have some C1101A RAMs I was planning to use in my Mark-8 project.  I'm
> having trouble finding more, as previously mentioned because the price has
> shot up so much.  I'm wondering, I'm finding lots of P1101A1 RAMs with the
> correct date codes.. are those compatible with C1101A/P1101A?  I don't
> understand what the 1 at the end signifies.
> 

According to my TI manual the 1101A is 1500 ns while the A1 is
1000 ns.

Compatibility of 1101A and 1101A1

[Brad H]

I have some C1101A RAMs I was planning to use in my Mark-8 project.  I'm
having trouble finding more, as previously mentioned because the price has
shot up so much.  I'm wondering, I'm finding lots of P1101A1 RAMs with the
correct date codes.. are those compatible with C1101A/P1101A?  I don't
understand what the 1 at the end signifies.

 

 

Netronics VID-64 terminal board

[Brad H]

I was wondering if anyone out there had documentation for this.  I got one with 
a homebrew computer I'm trying to revive.  Netronics documentation seems to be 
extremely scarce, which is odd given how popular it is.
Brad

Re: Kenbaks in Nova Scotia

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: jos  
Date: 2017-01-15  12:33 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Kenbaks in Nova Scotia 



>   And how a tiny museum in a tiny province could afford them.  Kind of a head 
>scratcher!

They were not always 30K+...

I visited the museum &  talked to the (very friendly ) owner.
  While this museum in itself may not warrant a trip to Nova Scotia, the area 
is >well worth a visit.

>Jos

Cool.  Unfortunately I'm way over on the other side of the country so it's 
unlikely I'll get there.  I just wonder why the previous owner, who seems 
concerned with getting the Kenbak's story out to the world, elected to send so 
many to one rather isolated place.  Interesting.

Kenbaks in Nova Scotia

[Brad H]

Never know what you'll find googling around.  I'm kind of curious about this.  
There is a 'museum' (barely.. they have less stuff than I do) in Nova Scotia 
that has 7 Kenbak-1s.  I read how they got them.. from a gentleman in South 
Carolina.  In his own write up, he said he would only sell them for a 
'substantial price'.  Since I know one sold not too long ago for $30k+.. I'm 
wondering what the museum paid and why he sold 7 them.  And how a tiny museum 
in a tiny province could afford them.  Kind of a head scratcher!
I think this link will give you the story.. the gentleman that sold them asked 
to have it posted.  I'm sure this must have been covered at some point in the 
past.. it's an interesting read though for those lioe me that have never seen 
it before.  I didn't expect one Kenbak to be in Canada let alone 7.
http://www.computermuseum.20m.com/cgi-bin/framed/3129/KENBAK-1BACKGROUND.htm

Re: What is the most prized possession in your collection?

[Brad H]

That's a hard one.  I feel like the answer should be 'my Mark-8 boards!', 
because they are so rare.  But they're just boards.. they don't do anything.  I 
find the computer I keep coming back to is my Digital Group z80.  Digital Group 
just has that personality factor.  

Re: What is the most amount of money you've spent on a computer or computer-related item?

[Brad H]

I rarely go above $1000.. I spent $1500 for my Mark-8 boards.  And I considered 
that a bargain considering what they were.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: Rick Bensene  
Date: 2017-01-12  11:49 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you
 own? 


A selection of some of my more unusual computer-related stuff:

- A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a 4.2bsd 
port called UTek

- A Digital Equipment PDP 8/e system with 2 RK05 drives, high speed paper tape 
reader/punch, RX01 Dual 8" floppy drives, 16K of DEC core memory(commonly runs 
with a 32K NVRAM board), 2 serial ports, EAE, RTC, Memory Extension/Timeshare 
board, Diode boot board (RK05 boot)

- Wang 300-series calculator field service parts kit (two wooden briefcases)

- Friden 6010 Computyper Diagnostic Console

- Friden Electronics Training Course manuals (1960s)

- Wyle Laboratories WS-02 punched card programmable electronic calculator (1964)

- Busicom 207 punched card programmable electronic calculator

- Altair 8800 with Altair dual 8" disk drives

- IMSAI 8080 kit built in high school as a school project in 1976/1977

- Televideo Personal Terminal

- GE transistorised current loop acoustic coupler modem (110 baud)

- Hewlett Packard 9100A and 9100B programmable electronic calculators

- Tektronix mini-Board Bucket computer and many boards for it (EPROM Blaster, 
TI TMS9918-Based Video Board w/RTC, SASI Interface, 6809 CPU, 6809 ICE CPU. 32K 
Static and 64K Dynamic RAM Boards, 300-Baud Modem Board, 5 1/4" Floppy 
Controller

- SWTPC TV Typewriter

- A large format (4'x5') Summagraphics digitizing tablet with GPIB interface

- A Tektronix 4052 desktop computer (bit-slice implementation of Motorola 6800 
CPU) with very rare RAM Disk module installed under keyboard

- Wang Laboratories dual-cassette drive for 700 series calculator

- An old fluorescent-lighted, two sided sign advertising Denon electronic 
calculators

- Some original Digital Equipment System Modules (Used by DEC for making some 
of their early computers)

---
Rick Bensene
>The Old Calculator Museum
>http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

Nice!  Rick is your TV Typewriter the Don Lancaster design or the CT1024?

Re: Sol Terminal Color Photo, and PROMs

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: Corey Cohen <appleco...@optonline.net> 
Date: 2017-01-12  3:25 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cct...@classiccmp.org> 
Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: Sol Terminal Color Photo, and PROMs 

The keyboard looks like a variant of the keyboard on display at the Victoria 
and Albert Museum in London right now attached to the Apple-1.   It was a giant 
pain to get it working correctly.  I didn't have good schematics so had to 
create a ton of notes and pseudo schematics using a ohm meter, scope and logic 
analyzer.  It was very satisfying to get it working :-)

The V keyboard is KTC-065-01466. 

There is a story on the sol-20 prototype proms, if I recall correctly, in the 
book "Fire in the valley".    

Cheers,
Corey 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

> On Jan 12, 2017, at 12:50 AM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if any color photos exist of the Sol 'Intelligent Terminal'
> that appeared on the cover of Popular Electronics, July 1976?  I just
> discovered that that Keytronics keyboard I bought on ebay (the one parted
> out from a mystery 8080 terminal of some sort) is the same one they used for
> the PE cover unit.  I found the artwork tonight on sol20.org for the
> original PCB.  If I could find a color photo it'd at least be possible to
> build a replica of that unit someday.
> 
> 
> 
> I was curious too if anyone knew the story behind the four optional PROM ICs
> that could be installed on the board.  The article only says 'Optional,
> write in for details'.  Can't find any more info than that anywhere.  I
> understand Processor Technology sort of dodged around PE's reluctance to
> publish any more computer articles, and I'm wondering if the terminal could
> be turned into a full blown computer with the aid of those PROMs.
> 
> 
> 
> To refresh - this is the keyboard I bought.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4pq0-BHd2x6eHNhTWVGZkhxRFk/view?usp=sharin
> g
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely seems to be the same one - just different colors and legends on
> the keys themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Brad
> 

Thanks Corey!
From what I've read around about this terminal.. PE didn't want to do any more 
articles on computers so Processor Tech sort of stripped down what was to 
become their Terminal Computer, calling it just a terminal for the article, 
although apparently the motherboard design changed to what's in the Sol 20.  
I'll look for that book.  It's interesting that this first terminal isn't 
better documented.  Or that PE didn't take one color photo of the first unit.
Was the output on the keyboard you worked on ASCII at least?

Sol Terminal Color Photo, and PROMs

[Brad H]

Hey guys,

 

Does anyone know if any color photos exist of the Sol 'Intelligent Terminal'
that appeared on the cover of Popular Electronics, July 1976?  I just
discovered that that Keytronics keyboard I bought on ebay (the one parted
out from a mystery 8080 terminal of some sort) is the same one they used for
the PE cover unit.  I found the artwork tonight on sol20.org for the
original PCB.  If I could find a color photo it'd at least be possible to
build a replica of that unit someday.

 

I was curious too if anyone knew the story behind the four optional PROM ICs
that could be installed on the board.  The article only says 'Optional,
write in for details'.  Can't find any more info than that anywhere.  I
understand Processor Technology sort of dodged around PE's reluctance to
publish any more computer articles, and I'm wondering if the terminal could
be turned into a full blown computer with the aid of those PROMs.

 

To refresh - this is the keyboard I bought.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4pq0-BHd2x6eHNhTWVGZkhxRFk/view?usp=sharin
g

 

Definitely seems to be the same one - just different colors and legends on
the keys themselves.

 

Brad

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Brad H]

I wasn't even aware of the LCM until this thread.. thanks guys!  Always wanted 
to go to CHM but it's in California, a long way from here.  LCM is much closer 
and I like the concept better given that they operate stuff.  I'm thinking 
eventually my collection will go to a museum somewhere, LCM seems like the kind 
of place I'd want it to go to.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: Chuck Guzis <ccl...@sydex.com> 
Date: 2017-01-10  11:24 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you
 own? 

On 01/10/2017 09:58 PM, Brad H wrote:

> Am envying the Altair guys though.  I want one but they always come
> up at just the wrong time.

I've still got the 8800 I built (with all those crappy white stranded
wires) back in the day.  It's not that great, trust me.

I moved to an IMSAI box and finally to an Integrand box.  Don't have the
IMSAI any longer, but still have the Integrand.

Haven't powered any of them up in 30 years.   One tends to forget about
>such stuff.

>--Chuck

For me it'd be purely about the history.    Gates and Allen writing the 
interpreter without an actual Altair to work on. Allen writing the bootstrap on 
the plane he took to pitch to MITS.  Gates' first written tirade about piracy.  
An Altair isn't out of my reach.. just.. other stuff (like the Mark-8 boards) 
keeps coming up just as I've stored enough money to buy one.

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Brad H]

I don't know how rare some of these are but I'm told they are:

1) Original Mark-8 board set.  (Think there are less than 20 Mark-8s/board sets 
out there currently)
2) Tektronix 6800 Board Bucket (probably even less than above?)
3) Digital Group Z80 and 8080 systems + 2 cassette Phideck
4) Videobrain Family Computer

Am envying the Altair guys though.  I want one but they always come up at just 
the wrong time.  

Re: Homebrew Z80

[Brad H]

You might be looking at my TVT project.. sorry.  The z80 computer is mixed in 
there.  Here's a direct shot of its motherboard:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4pq0-BHd2x6WmVQZjctMzFadlk/view?usp=drivesdk


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> 
Date: 2017-01-07  6:37 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: Homebrew Z80 

On 6 January 2017 at 20:52, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net> wrote:
>
>
> I've put some pics of it here:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4pq0-BHd2x6bjY3MTRZbGRCQmM?usp=shar
> ing
>
>
>
> Thoughts/opinions welcome.


The logo is right there on one of the boards.

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/TV_Typewriter.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Typewriter

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Homebrew Z80

[Brad H]

Hey guys.. I bought this Homebrew Z80 machine from what I assume is the
early 80s (going by the chips).  Pretty sure it's a Netronics keyboard but
wondering if any of you have seen a design like this one.  I'm just curious
if it came from a magazine article or something as it goes beyond the
typical basic homebrew and even appears to have some ROMs.  I'm not sure
what the TOS ROM is though.

 

I've put some pics of it here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4pq0-BHd2x6bjY3MTRZbGRCQmM?usp=shar
ing

 

Thoughts/opinions welcome.

Re: was: National Semi... is Apple ][ collectability (if any)

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: "drlegendre ." <drlegen...@gmail.com> 
Date: 2017-01-03  8:03 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: was: National Semi... is Apple ][ collectability (if any) 

"Vent-less case" - LoL!!

Add some RAM, maybe a DISC-II card and those things overheated even +with+
the vents.. that's why the Cider fan became popular, among other things.

When I was in high school, we'd pop the case tops open, and run them that
way. Otherwise, they'd overheat and start screwing up after the first or
second class period.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net
> wrote:

> >On 1/2/2017 11:26 PM, Brad H wrote:
> > I brought the RFI thing up with him.  No response.  There is a legit Rev
> 1 there too asking $3500.  I don't find Apple IIs below Rev 0 that
> interesting anymore, personally.  I think even the legit guy would struggle
> to get much above $1500.
> >The vintagecomputer museum guy on epay is selling mounted and framed
> motherboards now for $1500 (might not >work noted).
>
> >I guess someone would care about low ref Apple 2's but I'm not sure why
> there would be any interest.  I've got one >I bought with the original
> packing box, which I have picked and moved twice, which is rare for my
> collecting, but I >don't know what makes any Apple 2 like that
> collectible.  As in why are they collectible with low serials / part
> >numbers.
>
> >is there any documentation as to when they were made with those numbers
> that would make them significant?  >The numbers made as Raymond said would
> make most of us with Apple 2's millionaires I'd think unless they have
> >some other significance.
>
> >just curious.
> >thanks
> >Jim
>
> When I got into collecting an original Apple II was as rare as hen's teeth
> on ebay, etc.  Those got huge bucks, regardless of rev.  Then sellers
> caught on and stuff started coming out of closets, basements, estate
> sales.  I actually track Apple II sales and prices have massively declined
> since 15 years ago.  I mean, there's 6+ out there theoretically, and
> II+ shared the same components and production lines for a time.  Only diff
> was the ROMs.  Now Rev 0 is where it's at, especially a rare ventless
> case.  Oh, and late SNs in the 7 range for some reason still get
> $700-800.  I don't know why.
>
> The one thing I can tell you is, if an 'expert' tells you something about
> original II production, there's a good chance they are wrong.  Some
> authoritative sources claimed no Rev 02 boards went into public hands, for
> example, but I have one in my SN 16000s machine.  Some would claim that
> can't be original, but it is.. the date code on it is the same as the
> keyboard and case, all right in the range of other 16000 series machines,
> which on either side of mine have Rev 03.  Apple didn't use the same rev
> consistently.. sometimes they just grabbed from the pile.  It's kind of a
> dogs breakfast after Rev 0.
>
> My Rev 02 operates no differently, other than Integer BASIC, than my RFI
> II+.  More and more I'm not finding IIs to be all that amazing or worth
> fighting over.  A Rev 0, just owing to the few truly unique design
> features, is the only one I might want now.
>
>
>
>

Yeah.  We were on to IIes when I was in grade school and then Commodores and 
PCs after that.. original IIs and II+ were long gone.  I have four units and 
never have any issue but come to think of it I do tend to run them case top 
off.  I imagine other users might have run them with the monitor (another 
massive heat source) sitting right on top.
I think the ventless cases also were made of a weaker plastic that melted and 
warped just from the heat of the innards.  The few examples I've seen are 
almost invariably somewhat concave.  

RE: was: National Semi... is Apple ][ collectability (if any)

[Brad H]

>On 1/2/2017 11:26 PM, Brad H wrote:
> I brought the RFI thing up with him.  No response.  There is a legit Rev 1 
> there too asking $3500.  I don't find Apple IIs below Rev 0 that interesting 
> anymore, personally.  I think even the legit guy would struggle to get much 
> above $1500.
>The vintagecomputer museum guy on epay is selling mounted and framed 
>motherboards now for $1500 (might not >work noted).

>I guess someone would care about low ref Apple 2's but I'm not sure why there 
>would be any interest.  I've got one >I bought with the original packing box, 
>which I have picked and moved twice, which is rare for my collecting, but I 
>>don't know what makes any Apple 2 like that collectible.  As in why are they 
>collectible with low serials / part >numbers.

>is there any documentation as to when they were made with those numbers that 
>would make them significant?  >The numbers made as Raymond said would make 
>most of us with Apple 2's millionaires I'd think unless they have >some other 
>significance.

>just curious.
>thanks
>Jim

When I got into collecting an original Apple II was as rare as hen's teeth on 
ebay, etc.  Those got huge bucks, regardless of rev.  Then sellers caught on 
and stuff started coming out of closets, basements, estate sales.  I actually 
track Apple II sales and prices have massively declined since 15 years ago.  I 
mean, there's 6+ out there theoretically, and II+ shared the same 
components and production lines for a time.  Only diff was the ROMs.  Now Rev 0 
is where it's at, especially a rare ventless case.  Oh, and late SNs in the 
7 range for some reason still get $700-800.  I don't know why.

The one thing I can tell you is, if an 'expert' tells you something about 
original II production, there's a good chance they are wrong.  Some 
authoritative sources claimed no Rev 02 boards went into public hands, for 
example, but I have one in my SN 16000s machine.  Some would claim that can't 
be original, but it is.. the date code on it is the same as the keyboard and 
case, all right in the range of other 16000 series machines, which on either 
side of mine have Rev 03.  Apple didn't use the same rev consistently.. 
sometimes they just grabbed from the pile.  It's kind of a dogs breakfast after 
Rev 0.

My Rev 02 operates no differently, other than Integer BASIC, than my RFI II+.  
More and more I'm not finding IIs to be all that amazing or worth fighting 
over.  A Rev 0, just owing to the few truly unique design features, is the only 
one I might want now.

Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: Raymond Wiker <rwi...@gmail.com> 
Date: 2017-01-02  11:01 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini 

I see he also has an Apple II that he wants $2000 for --- it's listed as "NON
WORKING ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS FROM EXTREME AGE", and from date codes and
copyright markings it appears to be far from original. In fact, the
motherboard seems to be a Rev 7 RFI motherboard, and the processor is (I
think) from 1985. If that one is worth $2000, my Apple IIs must be worth at
least $6000 each :-)

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 5:24 AM, jim stephens <jwsm...@jwsss.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/2/2017 8:08 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
>
>> On 1/2/17 7:58 PM, Brad H wrote:
>>
>>
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: Josh Dersch <dersc...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: 2017-01-02  7:37 PM  (GMT-08:00)
>>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
>>> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
>>> Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/2/17 7:22 PM, jim stephens wrote:
>>>
>>>> This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it
>>>> is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display
>>>> would not probably have been on a production machine.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in
>>>> their history, someone correct me.  That might make this pretty rare
>>>> on that front as well.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/
>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it's pretty cool but I don't think the seller has reasonable
>>> expectations for actually selling it -- the auction started (I believe)
>>> at $1500 (which may have been a reasonable price), then the seller
>>> raised it to $2500, now it's at $3500 (which is fairly outrageous, in my
>>>
>>>> opinion).  I'm not sure what his strategy is.
>>>> Bitsavers has manuals (of course...)
>>>> - Josh
>>>>
>>> I think he figured toggle switches and lights = .  He might be
>>> correct, given the obscene money I've seen laid out just for a PDP 8/e
>>> faceplate. You never know a) what will motivate a collector and b) when
>>> just the right collector for a given item will show up.  Every day I thank
>>> my lucky stars they didn't, for whatever reason, show up for my Mark-8
>>> boards.
>>>
>>
>> With the "No shipping cash on pickup" proviso the seller provides, I feel
>> fairly certain no one's biting.  But I've been surprised before...
>>
>> - Josh
>>
>
> I also passed on a PDP8/M he had, which was quite rangy then posted this
> auction.  I had not come across the listing from before.
>
> The "Oh it must be worth a fortune", even canceling an auction 2 weeks ago
> on me.  I didn't think to pay for it on auction closing, since I'd been
> sniping it, or I could have really reamed the seller.  I have not gotten a
> straight response from them since then.
>
> I would not have noted this other than what i think is a rarity. Sad that
> the guy is holding it hostage from someone who could get hold of it and run
> it.  I think there is one in the CHM collection from what i was told when I
> checked on it before sharing here, so there is one preserved.  However
> would be interesting to see one in such as Josh's or Ian's hands running.
> (or many others, just share a lot with them and they are lighting blink'n
> lights more than me right now).
>
> thanks
> Jim
>
>

I brought the RFI thing up with him.  No response.  There is a legit Rev 1 
there too asking $3500.  I don't find Apple IIs below Rev 0 that interesting 
anymore, personally.  I think even the legit guy would struggle to get much 
above $1500.

Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: Josh Dersch  
Date: 2017-01-02  7:37 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini 


On 1/2/17 7:22 PM, jim stephens wrote:
> This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it 
> is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display 
> would not probably have been on a production machine.
>
> I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in 
> their history, someone correct me.  That might make this pretty rare 
> on that front as well.
>
> thanks
> Jim
>
> Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919
>

Yeah, it's pretty cool but I don't think the seller has reasonable 
expectations for actually selling it -- the auction started (I believe) 
at $1500 (which may have been a reasonable price), then the seller 
raised it to $2500, now it's at $3500 (which is fairly outrageous, in my 
>opinion).  I'm not sure what his strategy is.

>Bitsavers has manuals (of course...)

>- Josh

I think he figured toggle switches and lights = .  He might be correct, 
given the obscene money I've seen laid out just for a PDP 8/e faceplate. You 
never know a) what will motivate a collector and b) when just the right 
collector for a given item will show up.  Every day I thank my lucky stars they 
didn't, for whatever reason, show up for my Mark-8 boards.

Re: Transporting an LGP-30

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: william degnan  
Date: 2016-12-24  3:35 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctech  
Subject: Re: Transporting an LGP-30 

> Well, I think you guys have convinced me that a trip is in order. Better
safe than sorry with a piece of equipment like this.
>
> Yep Chuck, this is the CA machine. I was surprised it never reared its
head on classiccmp the past few days. -C

Believe me, I for one was interested, and I was in contact with the
seller.   The expense and effort, as much as >I'd love to work on restoring
>this, was too great to pull the trigger.

I thought about it also.  I would have liked to have brought it back to BC and 
kept it here in Canada.  But I began to wonder how it had ended up with these 
guys and talking to them I had my doubts about the amount of care taken in 
moving it around.  And I assumed freight would be insane anyway.  

RE: Intel C1101A

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:28 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A



On 12/6/2016 8:46 AM, Brad H wrote:
> I kind of thought that might be a possibility.  I might just let 
> things lie for a while.. I was concerned about stock disappearing, 
> didn't think about price tripling.  Not sure I want to spend $1400 for 
> 1K of RAM on a clone.:)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey 
> Cohen
> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:27 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts<cct...@classiccmp.org>
> Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
> Posts<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Intel C1101A
>
> I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more 
> "hits" they get on an item.  So your shopping around will actually make the 
> price worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when 
> you finally do place an order.
>
> corey cohen
> uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
Most of these guys will deal.  I don't know if you have approached them with a 
story or with an offer, but you can usually get them to make a deal.  If you 
have details on it, contact me and I'll send you my friend's contact info and 
see if he can get you something if your own efforts fail.  I've known him now 
for 40 years and find him to be one of the "good guys".

I spent a lot of time in his office when the fax machine would fire 2 or
3 times a minute and have a pile of 100 or 200 pages of wants or haves backed 
up he's have to look at.  Wading thru that and making money is why they are so 
weird in pricing and dealing.

He would always treat me fair though when I had something as he knew my needs 
weren't for a deal that could ultimately yield a huge payback, and I'd be 
restoring some old equipment.  Some don't care just want a buck.

You need to realize most people who will buy schlock parts will most likely be 
repairing a board for some alphabet agency or entity who probably is having to 
pay $1000 or $2000 / board to get back in business, with ancient unobtaininum 
parts on board.  There is a lot of this going on that isn't out there unless 
you are in the business, or unless you see the $5000 odd board for the old DEC 
box and wonder why the hell they are so expensive.

I've had some people with really high prices respond in the last year to 
reasonable offers for some rare stuff when I tell them what I plan to do with 
it.
>Thanks
>jim

Thanks Jim.. I did try some negotiation with the three suppliers I contacted 
but no flex at all.  I'm suspecting they're all going to the same source and 
said source has decided to maintain the price where it is.

Lesson here is if you're buying these things at all, get em all at once. :)

I don't *have* to have C1101A -- almost all Mark-8s I've seen were done with 
P1101A, and the only diff with C1101A is the encapsulation as far as I know.. I 
just went with C1101A because it was more certain they'd be over a certain age, 
and now that I have a bunch it'd be nice to keep it consistent.  I don't think 
I even have to build out to a full 1K to have a running Mark-8.. but it'd be 
nice.

RE: Intel C1101A

[Brad H]

I kind of thought that might be a possibility.  I might just let things lie for 
a while.. I was concerned about stock disappearing, didn't think about price 
tripling.  Not sure I want to spend $1400 for 1K of RAM on a clone. :)

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts <cct...@classiccmp.org>
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A

I do notice these "schlock" IC sellers actually raise the price the more "hits" 
they get on an item.  So your shopping around will actually make the price 
worse and my even cause your earlier vendors to raise their price when you 
finally do place an order. 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:00 PM, jim stephens <jwsm...@jwsss.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/4/2016 3:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
>> The supplier (a different one from the one I first used) that quoted 
>> me on C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or 
>> 'job'
>> number as the ones I have.  So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
>> What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?
>> 
>> I'm thinking it's*fairly*  safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at 
>> least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know.  I'm just 
>> wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!
> Brad,
> a very large number of schlock IC sellers all communicate with each other.  
> They all have a continuous stream of wants or needs that they exchange.  but 
> they make their own prices.  The probability is that you may have hit the 
> original stocking guy with your first query.  Querying any others will result 
> in them looking at the wants that others shared, or buys, and he saw someone 
> else had it and quoted you the same info.
> 
> I know this happens as I know two guys who trade in all manner of stock all 
> the time like this and have for 35 to 40 years.
> 
> thanks
> Jim

RE: Intel C1101A

[Brad H]

The supplier (a different one from the one I first used) that quoted me on
C1101A for the second round sent me a picture.. exact same 'lot' or 'job'
number as the ones I have.  So perhaps even that may not be meaningful?
What are the odds I'd hit the exact same dates from two different suppliers?

I'm thinking it's *fairly* safe to assume white ceramic is pre-76, at
least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know.  I'm just
wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden! 

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:52 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A

I should note that the 1101 I have is a ceramic, non-A part as well.

I've heard the same thing, Eric. Date codes are not dates.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Eric Smith

Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 3:42:49 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Intel C1101A

On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:30 PM, dwight  wrote:

> I'm not sure I know how to decode Intel's date codes.
>

Many years ago I heard from a not-necessarily-reliable source that Intel
used lot numbers rather than date codes, so without access to Intel internal
records, it wasn't possible to determine the manufacturing date.

Intel C1101A

[Brad H]

Putting this out there for those hopefully in the know.

 

I have been acquiring date-correct ICs and parts for my Mark-8 project,
which is years down the line.  I'm planning to build it on very carefully
replicated clone boards, based off my originals.  For my purposes, I'm
trying to keep ICs early 1975 or earlier.

 

Most Mark-8s that I've seen have P1101a plastic encapsulated RAMs.  Most are
Intel brand, but I've seen some that I think might be National or
something.. they just say P1101A on top.

 

The only source other than ebay that I have are those big chip vendors like
Summit.  And the problem with them is they aren't always precise about date
codes.  The P1101A, because they were produced for years, have a wide range
of codes and the places I prospected them from couldn't guarantee 75 or
prior.  

 

To my surprise, I found a few places had C1101A.  They are white ceramic,
gold legs.  They have a 'batch code' of F1268.   I got 16 of them for $14
each.  I was going to get 32, but Summit also surprised me with 5 1973
vintage Signetics n8263s @ $25 each.  I hadn't been able to find any
pre-1980 so I snatched those.. but that put me beyond a budget where I could
buy 32.  I figured I'd buy 16 chips for now and then buy another 16 the next
month.

 

Now of course, the chip houses have turned tables on me.  They want $48 per
chip instead of $14 like last time.  And checking around, that seems to be
uniform.  Now, I'm not averse to paying that, though it will sting.  But I
want to make sure my assumptions are correct.. that these white vintage ICs
are in fact pre-76.  Can anyone confirm that?  The info out there is a
little vague.

 

And would it be totally out of place for C1101as to be on a Mark-8?  Could a
hobbyist have had a source for them, beyond having some lying around?

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: allison <ajp...@verizon.net> 
Date: 2016-12-02  2:23 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 

On 12/02/2016 12:33 PM, Brad H wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Alderson
> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:34 PM
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff
>
> From: Brad H
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM
>
>> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.
> See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
> There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size, 
> weight, and capabilities.
>
> Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with room 
> to spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.
>
> Rich
> Rich Alderson
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> Living Computers: Museum + Labs
> 2245 1st Ave S
>> Seattle, WA 98134
>>
>> http://www.LivingComputers.org/
> Sorry.. I was being lazy.. I should have said 'a PDP 8/E'.  Obviously there 
> are some pretty large PDP-# systems.
>
That's more than lazy!  Just don't!

The PDP-8 and the PDP11 and PDP10 were beating the pants off of Intellec
2xx systems
for years before the first one was made.  Remember Billy Gates used a
PDP10 cross
assembler and simulator to create BASIC.  The market those DEC system
were in
demanded far more performance than the 8080 from 1974 could deliver.

An 8e running WPS was typically a multi-user system.
A PDP-8E running TSS could service 8-16 users in what appeared to them
as real time.
That was the original Boces Lirics system of 1969 a whopping three racks
of PDP-8i
The PDP-8e was a tad faster.  Fast forward to the early 90s and my
Decmate-III with APU
and running OS278 likely make the I230 look poor and it was much
smaller.  FYI the DMIII
is a PDP-8 on a chip (cmos 6120 cpu).  The APU was a z80@4mhz with 64K
ram and could
still easily outrun the I230 and gave me the choice to use 0S278 (a
version of OS8),
WPS (word and list processing), and CP/M-80.

A PDP-10 (BOCES LIRICS system 1970!) serviced over 300 users.  A 36bit
monster.
The CPU and the memory was eight 6ft racks long by two rows big not
including the four RP06s.
That system used the old PDP8i to keep it fed (data concentrator).

A PDP-11/23 with a 10MB disk in a single 50inch short cab running TSX or
other time sharing
system usually  supported 4-8 users. It was a 16bit system at that. 
They usually fit in the corner.

A Intellect 230 was handily beat by my NS*Horizon system in 1980. 
That's allowing for
the fact that the I230 was 8080 powered and ran at 2mhz (2:1 handicap). 
I know the
system well as I used it to develop programs for 8048/9, 8085, 8088, and
other micros
of the day till we retired it for a faster box (multibus 8086 at 8mhz in
1981).

So a knowledge of computer history and performance is is something to
>consider.


>Allison

Sorry.. when I said 'beat'.. I meant weight only.  And only for the main PDP-8e 
system unit.  Was not comparing processing speed.  But I appreciate all the 
info you gave me there for sure. :)

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Alderson
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:34 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

From: Brad H
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM

> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.

See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size, 
weight, and capabilities.

Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with room to 
spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.

Rich



Rich Alderson
Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Ave S
> Seattle, WA 98134

>http://www.LivingComputers.org/

Sorry.. I was being lazy.. I should have said 'a PDP 8/E'.  Obviously there are 
some pretty large PDP-# systems.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John H. 
Reinhardt
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 5:18 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff


On 12/1/2016 2:22 AM, jim stephens wrote:

> Very true, but didn't honestly think of that in context of the thread, 
> nor have I ever had any Digital Group stuff.  And does any Digital 
> Group cause any injuries requiring orthopedic medical attention when 
> you are lifting it?
>
> thanks jim

Only borderline, I think the total weight of the system box was around 40lbs.  
The standard box was a little bigger than the Altair 8800, I think.  Wider by 
about 10" or so.  I built a bunch of their kits when I was 17/18 before I went 
to college.  Tried to make my own chassis and P/S but finally had to give in 
and buy the dg one.  I had a 2.5Mhz Z80a, 26kB ( 3x8k +2k on CPU board) memory, 
an audio cassette tape storage interface and a Panasonic 12 (13"?) B/W TV 
cobbled into a surplus DEC VT52 style case that I bought from that famous (in 
the 70's) surplus place in Massachusetts. Poly Paks*? I can't remember the name.

I kind of wish I still had that system.  But after college, I never was back 
near home and eventually my parents asked if it was okay to sell it and I gave 
them permission.  someone packed it up and hauled it off. I hope it's still out 
there somewhere.

John H. Reinhardt


>*Yes, Poly Paks.  Found a discussion  
>
>I also bought an old vector display unit from then, there as an article in 
>Byte about turning one into a display and playing Space War on it.  Never got 
>it to >work though. Parents sold it off either when I was away in college or 
>after I graduated and wasn't at home.

I have the Basic Box and it's not very heavy at all relatively speaking.  I 
imagine the Bytemaster, with the built in monitor probably weighs a fair bit.  
My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich
Alderson
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:16 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

From: Brad H
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:16 AM

> That was kind of why I thought buying a PDP in pieces over time might 
> be my way to go, even if it took eons to get everything I needed to
rebuild one.
> It'd be fun to try and piece one back together.  But yeah, I'm trying 
> to think of what I would do with it afterwards. :)

So what kind of system are you interested in?  There is no such thing as a
generic "PDP".  Before giving up the naming convention, DEC produced 7
different architectures all named "PDP-n" for small integers n (and designed
2 that were never built by DEC):

PDP-1:  18 bits, 6 instruction + 12 address (System Modules)
PDP-2:  24 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-3:  36 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-4:  18 bits, 5 instruction + 13 address (System Modules)
PDP-5:  12 bits (System Modules)
PDP-6:  36 bits, 9 instruction, 9 AC+index+indirect, 18 address (mainframe)
PDP-7:  18 bits (PDP-4 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-8:  12 bits (PDP-5 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-9:  18 bits (PDP-7 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-10: 36 bits (PDP-6 upwards compatible) (mainframe)
PDP-11: 16 bits (FlipChips)
PDP-12: 12 bits (PDP-8 + LINC compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-14: 12 bits (NOT compatible with the PDP-8 family) (FlipChips)
PDP-15: 18 bits (PDP-9 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-16: register-transfer module machine, with 8-, 12- or 16-bit memory as
needed for particular application design.

Later members of each family were designated by suffixes (e.g. 8/i, 8/e, 8/A
and 11/40, 11/70, etc.) or newer names (DECsystem-10, DECSYSTEM-20).  The
VAX was the first new architecture from DEC not to have a PDP-n designation
at all.

Rich

P. S. For most of us, I think, "DG" = Data General, not Digital Group.


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

>mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

>http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Can I use 'dg'? :)  I think Digital Group preferred to be uncapitalized if I
remember correctly.

Regarding PDP -- I'm just sort of dipping my toes in here.  I'd like
something that looks similar to an 8/E -- front panel toggle switches,
preferably from before 1975.  But it's all a function of price.. if I can
find a later 11 that isn't $600+, that might be a place to start.  I'm open
to suggestions.  I've always been curious about DEC -- the computer shop we
once frequented in Vancouver always had stacks of DEC stuff among its used
computer inventory.  VAX stations mostly.  But I never got around to buying
anything.  Was too busy collecting classic Macs.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

I was born in '75 and my first experiences with computing were my Dad's
early Commodore stuff.  I missed the whole hobbyist era.  To me, DG stuff is
seriously antique.  When I got my Mark-8 boards they felt a little like Inca
treasure to me.  It's all relative.

It's not that I'm unaware of pre-75 computing, especially big mainframes,
etc.  But given how viciously much deeper pocketed collectors compete for
that stuff, and shipping, and space.. really... that stuff will likely
always be a curiosity for me rather than something to actually collect and
experience.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:20 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff



On 11/30/16 9:15 AM, Brad H wrote:
> 
> 
> When I got
> a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it 
> operating was like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.

Were you born in the 20th century?

Seriously, for some of us, DG microcomputers are modern.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:08 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

> From: Brad H

> So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested and how much they
> actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.

Well, I have to get all mine running first... ;-) Seriously, though, I'm
looking at several years of work to get them all running. (And there are
also various peripherals to do, like tape drives, etc.)

And then there's the project Dave B and I have to creat new blinkenlitz
panels (not to mention SD-card based mass storage to replace those cranky
old disk >drives for every-day running, the original purpose before the
blinkenkraze hit us :-) for the PDP-11's...

>Seriously, though, like all hobbies, it's primarily to amuse me, not to
create anything useful. And it's _very_ successful at that.

>   Noel

True enough.  I enjoy the repair and build aspect of the hobby.  When I got
a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it operating was
like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.  Seeing it come to life was
amazing.  But I don't find a lot of use for it day to day.  Likewise with my
TVT project -- the experience of building it is fantastic, but not sure I'd
have much for it to do once done.  Even my old Commodore only gets sporadic
use, and only because it has so much of my old games library.

That was kind of why I thought buying a PDP in pieces over time might be my
way to go, even if it took eons to get everything I needed to rebuild one.
It'd be fun to try and piece one back together.  But yeah, I'm trying to
think of what I would do with it afterwards. :)  

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pontus
Pihlgren
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:10 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:03:22AM -0800, Brad H wrote:
>
> I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos 
> of some in large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones 
> seem like a a pretty substantial investment in space for something 
> that doesnt (or does it?) have much practical use today.

Are you sure you are on the right mailing list?

Anyway, here is someone controling his christmas lights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MDYYvw0cY

> Cheers,
>Pontus.

Haha.  I don't know if I'd call using all that iron to run Christmas lights
'practical', though it is very cool.  I'm just trying to get out of the home
computer collector mindset.  We buy machines that can do all sorts of
things, especially games with graphics.  And when we're done we can simply
move them aside or tuck them in a closet.  A PDP with racks and all that,
not exactly portable. :)  So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested
and how much they actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: "Ian S. King" <isk...@uw.edu> 
Date: 2016-11-29  7:19 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net
> wrote:

>
>
> That sounds interesting.  I imagine they'd be worth even more than an 8/E?
>
>
> Keep in mind that the 8/I is a fairly substantial investment in space and
weight.  Also, if you want to add something, it's not as easy as plugging a
card into a backplane.  The 8/I requires wirewrap work.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>

University of Washington

>There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon >could go to China."

I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos of some in 
large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones seem like a a pretty 
substantial investment in space for something that doesnt (or does it?) have 
much practical use today.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

That sounds interesting.  I imagine they'd be worth even more than an 8/E?


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: william degnan  
Date: 2016-11-29  5:13 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:28 PM, jim stephens  wrote:

>
>
> On 11/29/2016 3:51 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
>> chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it_might_  be possible
>> to
>> round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the
>> rule.)
>>
>> Noel
>>
> He sold the boardset first, now has broken up part of the rest. parts of
> the backplane were sold earlier as well.
>
> I've watched this vendor for a while and bought some things, which were
> clean.  He also sold a complete 8/E
> recently and as noel said, went for $$$
>
> thanks
> Jim
>

I am working on liberating 10 PDP 8i's...but the guy has fallen off comms.
I plan to make a trip to the location, see what I can do.  I don't want
these, just want to help find a good home for them.

b

RE: Tektronix DVST Terminals & 4052's in sad shape

[Brad H]

Wow those are some seriously.. er.. organic terminals.  Can they even be 
salvaged?

I'm sure they're all spoken for if you can get them, but if not let me know.  
I'd love to have even a static example of a TEK terminal to be displayed with 
my board bucket.  I have both US and Canadian addresses.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 10:04 AM
To: General 
Subject: Re: Tektronix DVST Terminals & 4052's in sad shape

Enough have responded so I will ask if the property owner will let me have 
them. If so I'll keep tabs of who and when have replied and if not in the 
continental US see what can be done. The only interest I have my self would 
have been the 4013 but I've got too many other projects.

-pete

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7780
>
> If interested in details click on thumbnail the click on the picture 
> or upper right corner select the full size
>
> Will try to get and at least salvage the CRT's
>
> -pete
>

Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

Apart from my Rainbow I don't really have any DEC stuff.  So I was thinking 
about trying to acquire something early 70s... like a PDP8/E or similar.  I 
don't see them for sale often and I notice that DEC stuff is hotly contested on 
ebay.  Wondering what a complete 8/E would run in working or non working 
condition, or if it is feasible to buy in pieces (I did this with some other 
equipment I have.. allowed me to spread out the cost.. but is dependent on 
parts availability).
Advice/thoughts most welcome.


Sent from my Samsung device

Re: SWTPC 6800 issues again

[Brad H]

It tested good with my DVM when I first had it.. but the cap is original for 
sure... maybe I will invest in a new one even though it seemed ok.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: "Ian S. King" <isk...@uw.edu> 
Date: 2016-11-28  11:37 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 issues again 

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net
> wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> You might recall a while back I was having issues where I'd have to power
> up/power off multiple times before I'd get the 6800 to start up correctly
> and give me the SWTBUG prompt.  What I did was remove an overwrought
> modified RAM board and replaced it with a more basic 4K board set to the
> $A000 range.  That worked great for a while, but not we're getting back to
> the situation where I power up many times and get either ? marks, a string
> of 4s, or some other random character.  I have to power off and on several
> times before I get the $ prompt.
>
>
>
> I figured out how to run a proper RAM diagnostic and no errors came back.
> I
> wasn't sure how to properly test the $A000 board -  I assumed I couldn't
> let
> the test test the address space used by the test program itself, so I set
> it
> to run from A07F to AFFF (I think I did that right, I set the MSB in A002
> to
> A0 and LSB in A003 to 7F, and for the upper limit MSB in A004 to AF and
> A005
> to FF).
>
>
>
> I'm wondering now if this is really a RAM problem or maybe something else.
> I don't think it's the serial card.. I've tried both the MP-C and MP-S and
> no change.
>
>
>
> I have an NOS MP-B2 motherboard here.  The 'check pins' on the molex
> connectors for the cards haven't even been cut.  I could set that up for
> testing although, being totally unused I'm hesitant about altering it.
> What
> do you think on that?
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
My first question (and pardon me if this was addressed in your earlier
thread) is, have you checked the power supply?  If possible, use a scope,
but even a good DVM will tell you if you're maintaining voltage.  And if
the filter cap is the original, just replace it - they have a limited
lifespan.  I bought one from Digi-Key for $19.  Hope that helps -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

SWTPC 6800 issues again

[Brad H]

Hey guys,

 

You might recall a while back I was having issues where I'd have to power
up/power off multiple times before I'd get the 6800 to start up correctly
and give me the SWTBUG prompt.  What I did was remove an overwrought
modified RAM board and replaced it with a more basic 4K board set to the
$A000 range.  That worked great for a while, but not we're getting back to
the situation where I power up many times and get either ? marks, a string
of 4s, or some other random character.  I have to power off and on several
times before I get the $ prompt.

 

I figured out how to run a proper RAM diagnostic and no errors came back.  I
wasn't sure how to properly test the $A000 board -  I assumed I couldn't let
the test test the address space used by the test program itself, so I set it
to run from A07F to AFFF (I think I did that right, I set the MSB in A002 to
A0 and LSB in A003 to 7F, and for the upper limit MSB in A004 to AF and A005
to FF).

 

I'm wondering now if this is really a RAM problem or maybe something else.
I don't think it's the serial card.. I've tried both the MP-C and MP-S and
no change.

 

I have an NOS MP-B2 motherboard here.  The 'check pins' on the molex
connectors for the cards haven't even been cut.  I could set that up for
testing although, being totally unused I'm hesitant about altering it.  What
do you think on that?

 

Brad

Re: Altair, IMSAI, SWTPC, etc. for sale in Philly

[Brad H]

I got booted from the list when the original post came out for this.  He isn't 
willing to ship I guess?  I wouldn't mind buying the SWTPC 6800 case he has.. I 
have almost everything save a cpu card to build another 6800 unit.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: allison  
Date: 2016-11-04  3:50 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cct...@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Altair, IMSAI, SWTPC, etc. for sale in Philly 

That is from the first 2000 to 5000 units its a 8800 no suffix the
ribbon is either A or Bsuffix and
a different CPU board (uses 8224). 

The orange is rosin flux that was not cleaned.   Isopropanol would clean
that but it was built as a
kit (the K suffux on the serial number tag).  Its better to leave it
that way.  Authentic, never cleaned
mine either.

The PS looks to be the original version or the first update (higher
voltage transformer).

I'd expect power supply problems, suspect one-shots (front panel and CPU
clock) and
bus level noise issues.  Assuming the switches are still good.

Allison

On 11/04/2016 09:19 AM, Sam O'nella wrote:
> Out of curiosity and ignorance what's with the solder joints on the cards in 
> the pictures? That orange color seems like it's everywhere around cold 
> looking solder joints.  Is that rust, some sort or protection, or acid 
> corrosion?
>  Original message From: Mark G Thomas  Date: 
> 10/31/16 
> I had the pleasure of visiting Rick yesterday. Please see below 
> additional information about remaining items, with links to photos.
> Please contact Rick directly if interested.
>
> Original posting here:
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 08:44:39AM +, steven stengel wrote:
>> ---
>> *  Contact Rick below if interested.  *
>> ---
>> Name: Rick Bunker
>> Contact: r...@bunker.us
>> Location: Jenkintown, PA    
> 10/30/2016 Update:--
>
>> The Altair 8800, a very early one, 4-slot motherboard, 1K ram, ceramic CPU,
>> you will see: https://goo.gl/photos/3C1pzfwFoZ3koPgt9
>>

Re: Altair, IMSAI, SWTPC, etc. for sale in Philly

[Brad H]

I'm a dork.. my reader was cutting off quotes.. but I saw the direct link to 
Rick in my email.


Sent from my Samsung device

Re: Tek 4051 with a 10 year old at the helm

[Brad H]

Very cool.  I love how that display works.  It's just like something from an 
early 80s movie.
I want one badly but not $3000 badly.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Randy Dawson  
Date: 2016-11-04  5:03 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Tek 4051 with a 10 year old at the helm 

Here is my daughter Gina, I thought you guys would like, Tek is still exciting.


Sure, we have lots of PC's around the house, but this is the first one that she 
is programming, and programming the 4051 creates a smile.


Randy


https://youtu.be/o0LiYkHG3iE

Re: What the heck is the deal with this eBay item

[Brad H]

I've been wondering about that one myself.  Very odd.  That's not the first 
time I've seen that either. Along with stuff that 'sells' for absurd amounts of 
money.
At first I though the absurd sales were attempts to manipulate the market.. but 
it doesn't seem worth the effort or ebay fees.  I almost kind of wonder with 
some of them if something more sinister is going on.. like money laundering.  
That'd be a fairly obscure way to do it..


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Corey Cohen  
Date: 2016-11-01  4:43 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: What the heck is the deal with this eBay item 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272433760795 

This Helios II has been "sold" multiple times for varying amounts and then 
suddenly hours later appears for sale again.  I'm done bidding on this each 
time it appears, because if I won, who knows what I'd receive or if the seller 
would cancel the auction.  

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

RE: Tek 40xx computer users

[Brad H]

Can't see the video (access denied).. but that looked like an exceptionally
nice unit, with the stand to boot!  Some day I'd like to have one of those
to go with my Tektronix 6800 board bucket.. but shipping will always be an
issue.

If you decide to put a video up somewhere public please let me know.. love
watching vids of these ones in action.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Randy
Dawson
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 7:15 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Tek 40xx computer users

I bought the Tek 4051 on ebay today; Jason brought it to my house and it
works perfectly, with about a half hour of programming instruction my 12 old
daughter was plotting a cat face.


https://www.facebook.com/Thelma.Franco/videos/10154277153852670/


I would like to get in touch with other users of this first personal
computer, and find additional resources.


Do you know where I can find an archive of BASIC programs for this?


Has anybody built plug in cards in the back, mine came with a realtime clock
and a "file manager", I do not know what that one does.


I have some Tek scopes with IEE-488, and I will see if I can get the IEEE
interface working.


There was a DC300 tape in the machine:


biorithm

craps

blackjack

artillery

tanks

weatherwar


The belt is broken in the tape, I have ordered some new DC300's and will
transplant the tape.


Any resources will be welcome!


Randy

Re: OT: Excessive bounce notices?

[Brad H]

I get hit by that every couple of weeks.  I still have no idea what a 'bounce' 
is or what I'm doing or not doing to cause it to drop me.  Kind of frustrating 
because it just drops me and then I miss chunks of conversations I'm watching.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Curious Marc  
Date: 2016-10-22  2:42 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: OT: Excessive bounce notices? 

Got the excess bounce warning and membership disabled too. Just clicked the 
link on the message to re-enable myself. Hopefully it worked, since I'm still 
here...
Marc

> On Oct 22, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Liam Proven  wrote:
> 
>> On 22 October 2016 at 17:27, Adrian Graham  
>> wrote:
>> Ditto, and ditto. I also thought it was due to the dyndns attack so just
>> resubbed after emailing Jay, but if everyone did that who got an excessive
>> bounce message the poor chap will have quite a full inbox.
> 
> Yes, me too.
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven
> Skype/MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

RE: One last epay for the day, TEC terminal

[Brad H]

I was going to grab that but I've tested my wife's patience enough this month, 
between the Mark-8 boards and this teletype I have.  I would like to one day 
have a good example of a 1973 or earlier glass terminal just to show people the 
alternative to the TVT I'm building.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 8:52 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: One last epay for the day, TEC terminal


Since some need to possibly use current loop, I was searching and thought it 
useful to bring this to people's attention.  The TEC is also one of the 
terminals in the video I posted a few days ago related to "Jobs" if you care to 
look.  I've used these and at the time the only problem I had was dropping them 
on your foot, they are not light.

the vendor says that Bitsavers has the manual, which may make this a bit 
attractive as well, saving looking all over the place for documentation.  The 
screen doesn't look great, but might be usable w/o a huge amount of work.

Another thing that ones here may be able to use is that it has the video output 
option installed, so one could drive a modern monitor, or presentation 
projector in a display situation with this one.

I think the ones we had were a bit fancier, and had a block of indicators on 
one side or the other that you could blink, this one does not.

1972-TEC-440-Serial-Terminal-/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262674442502

no affiliation, just wish I had room for it, hope someone can use it.

i'll throttle myself for a few days unless I see a random 360/50 or so for sale 
so I am not bothering those who don't like these. Apologies in advance.

thanks
Jim

Re: Reasonable price for a complete SOL-20 system?

[Brad H]

SOL-20s have been all over the map.  Ive seen similar units diverge by as much 
as $500 for nothing obvious I can see.  The average for unknown, complete, 
decent cosmetic condition seems to be around $900. With extras probably $1300?



Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: "Mark J. Blair"  
Date: 2016-10-15  11:56 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Reasonable price for a complete SOL-20 system? 

I have an opportunity to make a "reasonable offer" on a fairly complete SOL-20 
system. It would include a floppy drive cabinet and some software, but no 
monitor. It's a "working when retired" system, so I assume that the keyboard 
has died of old age and some capacitors might have dried out; none of that 
bothers me, but it implies that it's probably not a turnkey system. I have to 
make the offer or not by tonight, based on when the owner is leaving on a road 
trip that will pass near me, with or without the system loaded up in his RV.

Now the problem is that I haven't been following SOL-20 prices, so I don't know 
what a reasonable offer might be. The only prices I'm aware of are the various 
buy-it-now prices I see on eBay, some or all of which I suspect are from 
sellers looking for top dollar and then some.

If any of y'all can help me figure out a reasonable price range for a 
complete-ish but not necessarily running SOL-20 system, I would appreciate that.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

RE: ASR 33 buzzing

[Brad H]

Got a little further.  The keyboard was definitely jammed.  I pulled the 
carriage over to the right and noted there's a bar on the left side that a 
piece of metal attached to the carriage belt hits, I assume triggering 
something.  Doesn't work.. the bar is stuck.  At any rate, I put the metal 
piece over it and the carriage returned on its own (spring action).  I then 
wound the motor some more and got a bell sound.  After that, the keys started 
to work properly -- I can see the little arms (code bars?) changing as each key 
is pressed.

Thought maybe if the keyboard was jammed that might short the motor.. but still 
blows out fuses.

AFAIK the unit was working before it was shipped, sort of.  The seller 
mentioned powering it up and doing a carriage return successfully before 
shipping.  I'm inclined to think something happened during shipping.  

RE: ASR 33 buzzing

[Brad H]

So I've got the machine being quiet now (no buzz).  And I've confirmed the unit 
does not try to engage the motor unless switched to Line or Local mode.  The 
second you turn the switch, the motor does about a 1/4 turn and then there's a 
visible spark from the bottom of the fuse holder.  So I'm guessing this must be 
caps or something drawing too much power somewhere.

RE: ASR 33 buzzing

[Brad H]

Okay so, a bit more playing around.  The buzzing stops if I rotate the motor.  
And then after rotating the motor if I power on and off, it just makes a single 
click.  Every so many turns though it starts buzzing again.

So maybe we need to get back to the motor and why it's not doing anything?  

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 2:06 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: ASR 33 buzzing

Think I understand.. I didn't have a clothespeg.. I took some heavy cardboard 
paper and folded it and then stuffed into the space between the cylinder and 
the back of the magnet.  Still buzzes.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:58 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: ASR 33 buzzing

My eyes must be going.. I can't see any clothespin in that photo.  I see an 
arrow and a dark space between that cylinder and the back of the magnet..

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: ASR 33 buzzing

If you put a clothes pin as this photo shows, does the buzzing go away?
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/teletype/teletype_ASR33_clothespin-test.jpg
If so, then you may need to adjust a screw somewhere.  You may have an 
"incomplete" ready mode (just a little chattering when current loop is closed).
Bill

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net
> wrote:

> I found it.  It`s this thing:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4pq0-BHd2x6Und4QVJQdGoyaFE
>
> I can actually see it trying to engage when I plug in.  That is
> *definitely* where the noise is from.   If I rotate the motor with it on,
> the noise changes depending on where the rotation is at.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of 
> william degnan
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < 
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: ASR 33 buzzing
>
> It would actually be coming from the motor not the reader.  The motor 
> for the papertape reader is either in the pedestal (if your ASR is on
> one) or somewhere in the UCC-6 (the power supply).  You have to follow 
> the cable that comes from the reader along the rim of the chassis.
> B
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Brad H <vintagecomputer@ 
> bettercomputing.net
> > wrote:
>
> > Good question.  I only thought motor because it seemed like the 
> > noise was from back there.  And when I put a plastic tool against 
> > the outer casing, I could feel a vibration.  But now I'm wondering 
> > about that paper tape reader.. when I listened to the noise again it 
> > did kinda sound like it might be coming from over there.  It's kind of 
> > diffuse.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of 
> > william degnan
> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:05 PM
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < 
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: ASR 33 buzzing
> >
> > stupid question - you're certain the motor is making the buzz and 
> > not the reader motor or somewhere on the UCC-6?
> > Bill
> >
> >
>
>