[cctalk] CP/M

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I came across an article that said CP/M came out in April 1974. I remember
using this OS in the microcomputer world in the late 70’s; early 80’s. It
came from PL/M, (Programming Language for Microcomputers) later renamed
CP/M(Control Program for Microcomputers). I’m not sure what its legacy is
though as far as I can recall it was wrapped up in litigation for quite
some time. It was used in the 8-bit world but not sure what it's role was
in the early PC world!

Happy computing,

Murray 

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I’m not certain what constitutes the original foundations of
BASIC(Beginner’s All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code) but to my knowledge
it began with J. G. Kemeny and T. E. Kurtz at Dartmouth College in 1964.
Apple BASIC and GWBASIC were well established when I began experimenting
with them in early 1980’s. By mid-80’s I was running both on a PC and
Coleco ADAM. I wrote a program using GWBASIC for cataloging my books and
magazines.

Happy computing,

Murray 

On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 6:56 AM Liam Proven via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 00:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
> > What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had
> > APL, instead of BASIC?
>
> To be perfectly honest I think the home computer boom wouldn't have
> happened, and it would have crashed and burned in the 1970s, with the
> result that microcomputers remained firmly under corporate control.
>
> I have been watching the APL world with interest since I discovered it
> at university, and I still don't understand a word of it.
>
> I've been watching Lisp for just 15 years or so and I find it unreadable
> too.
>
> I think there are widely different levels of mental flexibility among
> smart humans and one person's "this just requires a small effort but
> you get so much in return!" is someone else's eternally impossible,
> unclimbable mountain.
>
> After some 40 years in computers now, I still like BASIC best, with
> Fortran and Pascal very distant runners-up and everything else from C
> to Python is basically somewhere between Minoan Linear A and Linear B
> to me.
>
> I think I lack the mental flexibility, and I think I'm better than
> most of hoi polloi.
>
> If the early machines had used something cryptic like APL or Forth I
> reckon we'd never have had a generation of child programmers.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
>

[cctalk] BASIC

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Nostalgia keeps pressing ahead: It was 60 yrs. ago that BASIC came into
existence. I remember very well writing in Apple Basic and GW Basic later
on. As a non-compiled OS, an interpreted OS, it was just the right tool for
a microcomputer with  limited memory. I recall fondly taking code from
popular magazines and getting them to run. It was thrilling indeed!

Happy computing,

Murray 

[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

The Altair 8800 used a microprocessor, the 8080, and came to public
prominence in Jan. 1975 in Popular Electronics magazine: "World's First
Minicomptuer Kit to Rival Commercial Models."  I have the original magazine
from that era and I remember this quite well as it brought attention to a
mass-consumer audience  - a device called a microcomputer though not what
PE called it! Here in Canada the price was very expensive but I had a dear
friend, an electronics engineer, who purchased one. It was very limited,
hardware and software-wise, and my friend found it a ‘nightmare’ to build
but what a momentous reward when it finally worked. To this 23 year-old it
certainly sparked my interest with what we now call classical computing.

Happy computing all. 



On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:53 AM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I managed to find and buy a fair copy of the magazine on eBay for $150 two
> weeks ago.
>
> Regards,
> Tarek Hoteit, PhD
> Principal AI Consultant
> https://tarek.computer
>
> INFOCOM AI https://infocom.ai
>
>
> > On Apr 27, 2024, at 07:42, wh.sudbrink--- via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >  I'm sorry to hear that. Some of the best parts of my S100 collection
> came to me by way of either "please take care of this for me" or "come get
> this or it goes to the dump".  Remember the old "classic computer rescue
> list"?  I suppose I've been fortunate that I have had storage space and a
> sympathetic spouse.
> >On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 10:14:35 AM EDT, Bill Gunshannon via
> cctalk  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 4/27/2024 7:43 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> >> Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution.  So I'd say all
> >> year.  Not one specific date
> >
> > I had that magazine.  Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many
> > years ago.
> >
> > But even at that, nothing for me to celebrate.  I couldn't afford
> > one then and I still can't afford one.  The same goes for the
> > IMSAI-8080.  And the Heath H-8 falls into the same category.  :-(
> >
> > bill
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

An excellent trip down memory lane. I no longer have the memory and
cognitive skills I once had but there are events in my life I still
remember and cherish. The first computer I remember working on was the
either the PDP-7 or 8(classmates at that time no longer live here in rural
Ontario to consult with) at my high-school where the electronics/electrical
teacher had in his office. It was a donation from a wealthy benefactor, an
alumni, who saw the future and said computers would revolutionize society!

Murray 



On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 5:40 PM Mike Katz via cctalk 
wrote:

> I want to thank you all for this IBM 360 conversation.  It makes me feel
> young.  My first computer was a PDP-8/L with 4K of core memory and a
> Teletype ASR-33.  That was 1972 (I was 12).
>
> On 4/10/2024 4:23 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> On Apr 10, 2024, at 5:01 PM, Van Snyder via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ...
> >> I think the 360/67 replaced "Halt and Catch Fire" with "Rewind and
> >> Break Tape."
> > I always wondered if that wasn't a standard property of IBM tape drives
> of that era.  The ones I remember from our 360/44 had capstans that turned
> continuously, one to each side of the head.  The tape was shoved against
> the capstan to start tape motion, and against a rubber brake block to stop
> it.  That was wild enough, but the other crazy aspect is that the vacuum
> columns were arranged so the oxide was facing outward, i.e., rubbing
> against the side walls of the vacuum column.
> >
> > I never did wear out a tape, but then again, I never used a tape more
> than a half dozen times on that system.
> >
> >   paul
> >
> >
>
>

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I remember some early days of my computing years. I visited IBM at Eglinton
E. & Don Mills Rd., its sprawling complex. I knew a project manager from
IBM when he worked at their new facility in Vaughan. I don’t think I truly
realized the seminal work done at IBM then(60's&70's).

Murray 

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:39 AM Paul Berger via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> On 2024-04-10 2:21 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> > On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote:
> >> On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> >>> I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on
> >>> such
> >>> a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes
> of
> >>> ram was remarkable!
> >>>
> >>> Happy computing
> >>>
> >>> Murray 
> >> Real time sharing, not a 16K PDP 8?
> > What model of a 360?  8K sounds a lot like a Model 20, which the purists
> > may not consider to be a "real" member of the family.
> >
> >   --Chuck
> >
> >
> The IBM Don Mills plant in Toronto built model 20s.  I knew guys who
> bought their houses with the overtime working on them.  They had
> accumulated a lot of engineering changes that had not been cut into
> production, so they would be assembled and then there where teams that
> would apply the engineering changes before the systems where shipped.
>
> Paul.
>
>

[cctalk] IBM 360

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on such
a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of
ram was remarkable!

Happy computing

Murray 

[cctalk] Re: The 8008

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Hi Bill,

I have not read the history of Intel lately but here are articles I have
read starting with:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1397-intel-8008-microprocessor/

Over the course of the last month or so this is what I’ve read:

https://www.ithistory.org/db/hardware/intel-corporation/intel-8008

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Intel_8008/Intel_8008_1.oral_history.2006.102657982.pdf

https://gunkies.org/wiki/Intel_8008

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=89978449=https://twitter.com/TechSpot/status/1773220599361417566=2ahUKEwjr0uHO-qGFAxWJFFkFHf5TCocQFnoECBsQAQ=AOvVaw2xDE3zESspH5a49L34MetO



https://www.eejournal.com/article/happy-50th-birthday-to-the-8-bit-intel-8008-microprocessor/

These are articles on the Deep Net/Web that I’ve also read and may be hard
to reach(Private PDFs):

https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2012/07/102657982-05-01-acc.pdf

https://www.righto.com/2017/02/reverse-engineering-surprisingly.html

https://hackaday.com/2022/09/28/the-first-microcomputer-the-q1/

https://stevemorse.org/8086history/8086history.pdf

https://www.sjsu.edu/people/robert.chun/courses/CS247/s4/M.pdf

I hope these are of interest.

Murray 

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:43 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk 
wrote:

> are these articles available/online?  maybe others might like them too.
> Thanks in advance
> Bill
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:29 AM Murray McCullough via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I’ve read with great interest, over the past short while, a few
> interesting
> > articles on the history of the Intel 8008(officially released in April
> > 1972) as it was the forerunner of what was to become the personal
> computer
> > industry. And done with less than 4000 transistors. I saw one at a
> computer
> > shop/store in Toronto in the latter 1970s’ but had no idea the seminal
> role
> > it was to play in microcomputer history.
> >
> > Happy computing!
> >
> >
> >
> > Murray  
> >
>

[cctalk] The 8008

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I’ve read with great interest, over the past short while, a few interesting
articles on the history of the Intel 8008(officially released in April
1972) as it was the forerunner of what was to become the personal computer
industry. And done with less than 4000 transistors. I saw one at a computer
shop/store in Toronto in the latter 1970s’ but had no idea the seminal role
it was to play in microcomputer history.

Happy computing!



Murray  

[cctalk] IBM PC-XT

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I look back fondly on the IBM PC-XT of 41 years ago. It was very pricy here
in the Great North but it allowed for a much more advanced computing
environment. What one could do with a 10MB hard disk! Granted it was far
more popular in the business world than the consumer one. However, it made
possible much greater developments that hobbyists and experimenters latched
onto.

Happy computing!

Murray 

[cctalk] Re: The MAC at 40

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I know a great deal of writings by techno-historians, computer-industry
experts and technology enthusiasts concerning the Apple Mac, and now 40
years old, have covered this topic both on and off the net.  Unlike
originally stated I now feel that the MAC was an important change agent in
regards to the all-in-one computer landscape. Why Apple priced it
‘prohibitively’ high, particularly so here in Canada, I’m not sure.
Arguments such as an integrated ecosystem to securing a marketing and brand
loyalty come to mind. Certainly applies to the world of Apple doesn't it!
What I remember most from that time though was their 1984 Super Bowl
commercial! It went a long way to putting Apple and the microcomputer
industry on the mass-consumer market.

Murray 



On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 7:12 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> LoL  oops.  Strike my comment!
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:09 PM Tony Jones via cctalk  >
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 3:58 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > You all should check out David Greelish's new documentary on the Mac.
> > >
> >
> > Sounds good except it's not about the Mac.  It's called "Before
> Macintosh:
> > The Apple Lisa documentary"
> >
> > It just happens to be (finally) getting released on the Mac's 40th
> > anniversary.
> >
>

[cctalk] The MAC at 40

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

The Apple Mac, 40 years old, came from Xerox PARC’s GUI and Apple’s LISA.
Not sure that it really changed computing though! Financially it didn't
help Apple until after 1997 and Gate's investment.

Happy computing!

Murray 

[cctalk] Re: RIP: Software design pioneer and Pascal creator Niklaus Wirth

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Many thanks Liam. N. Wirth, the man and his creation(s), has a special
place in my understanding of computers and how programming works - the way
it should. Great men do change things and in N. Wirth's case much for the
better in the computing world and dare I say beyond.

Murray 


On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 5:38 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk 
wrote:

> Sad news but a great article Liam, thanks for the interesting history.
>
> The second language I taught myself was Algol 68 (!), on a DECSYSTEM20. I
> learned Pascal at University, when I did my M.Sc I used VAX Pascal on a VAX
> 11/780 and went on to use it as my first professional language. I loved VAX
> Pascal, I could do just about anything I wanted with it. Of course, it
> wasn't very "pure" Pascal.
>
> Incidentally, I have asked a couple of times before, but if anyone knows
> of any media with Algol68C for PDP10 I would love to get hold of it.
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Liam Proven via cctalk 
> > Sent: 04 January 2024 21:32
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Cc: Liam Proven 
> > Subject: [cctalk] RIP: Software design pioneer and Pascal creator
> Niklaus Wirth
> >
> > Evangelist of lean software and devisor of 9 programming languages and an
> > OS was 89
> >
> > https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/04/niklaus_wirth_obituary/
> >
> > The great man has left us. I wrote an obituary.
> >
> > --
> > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> > IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+
> > WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
>
>

[cctalk] Intel 4004

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

On Nov. 15, 1971 Intel commercially released the 4004 microprocessor which
some consider to be the first. Nonetheless, even if not in agreement, it
made possible the instrument which drives the classic-computing industry or
at the very least our hobby!

Happy computing.

Murray 

[cctalk] Apple 1

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Classic computers have a value in our capitalist society. Take the Apple-1:
Its value can be in the $100,000s. One is for sale now: ~ $200,000. Next
seems to be the Kenbak-1 valued somewhere around $50,000. Now, I’m not
suggesting money is the epitome for evaluating our hobby but it goes a long
way to explaining its longevity.



Happy computing.



Murray  


Add. I'm unable to get the output from your site but hope to contribute in
some small way.

[cctalk] Can't access

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Dear sir;

  I can't access your site. Not sure why! It mat be due to the email
address I employ.

Many thanks,

Murray  

[cctalk] Death of Mitnick

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Maybe this note is off topic but I don't think so: The death of Kevin
Mitnick. His book "Ghost in the Wire" is a classic. Too bad he was a
criminal!

Murray 

[cctalk] Problems with getting your newslatter

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Hello sir,

  I used to get your newsletter but no longer...I understand there are
problems...

  I would be most interested in getting your newsletter again.

Many thanks,

Murray  

[cctalk] The World Wide Web

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

30 years ago the World Wide Web came into public existence. It has enabled
cctalk to flourish.

Murray 

[cctalk] Magazine no longer in print

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I read today that “Maximum PC” is no longer in print just in digital. Past
issues are available in digitized format but it’s not the same as reading a
magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be
stopped…



Happy computing.



Murray  

[cctalk] 8086 history

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

45 years ago this month Intel revealed the 8086 processor which became x86
technology that formed the backbone of PC technology. The 8-bit era came to
an end about 7 years later. For classic computing a new era began.



Happy computing.



Murray 

[cctalk] Wireless phone

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

On April 3, 1973 the first wireless phone call was made and Moore’s Law has
now led to the smart-phone being ubiquitous to our lives: Computer
technology and cell phone technology marching hand-in-hand.


 Happy computing and talking about it!


Murray 

[cctalk] Death of G. Moore

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Legendary discoverer of Moore's Law Gordon Moore passed away. Whether it
truly is a 'law' is debatable but its effect on microprocessor development
is hard to deny. Our industry/hobby or interest was built on a technology
G. Moore helped to develop.

Happy computing!

Murray 

[cctalk] Re: Tarek Hoteit ->Visiting the computer history museum

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I attended the Vintage Computer Faire at the Computer History Museum many a
yr. ago. The museum wasn't opened yet then collecting many computer
artifacts including the Cray-1. I also met Steve Wozniak who gladdened the
heart of this Canadian nerd/geek/computer enthusiast. I'm looking forward
to visiting the museum again in the not-too-distant future. There are
computer museums here in Canada; one has Kenbak-1s.

[cctalk] Vintage den

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Hi,



  Has anyone seen the latest on ArsTECHNICA journal on Brian Green’s
“deluxe home vintage computer den”? Does it bring back many fond memories
of the 70s and 80s. 



Happy computing.



Murray  

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

A lot has been written about the origins of the microcomputer. I wrote a
book on the topic. Many thanks for mentioning Canada. Whether one is
playing games or doing something else micro-computing is usually associated
with a microprocessor as CPU. Anything earlier is a minicomputer or
something else.



Yet this is not the point of the video. Let’s enjoy what has been created
and give encouragement to the creators. Kudos to them.



Murray  

[cctalk] TRS 80

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

45 years for the TRS-80. My! Where has the time gone? The “Trash-80” was
one of the earliest micro-computers in my home. Radio Shack helped create
the ‘PC’ industry, the consumer version anyways, fueling what is now our
hobby.



Happy computing.


Murray  

Classic computer from Britain(Europe)

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

For British microcomputer fans the famous SInclair ZX Spectrum came into
existence 40 years ago this month: A worthy successor to the Sinclair ZX81.
It was the Apple II of Europe.

Happy computing!

Murray  

Loss of Museum in Ukraine

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Without getting political I was saddened to hear of the destruction of the
Club 8-Bit museum in Mariupol, Ukraine. One can only hope that D.
Cherepanov can rebuild his museum someday keeping classic computing in that
part of the world alive.

Murray--

Passing of Jay Last

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I read with sadness an obituary in the New York Times of the passing of *Jay
Last*, he being one of the “traitorous eight” infamy, if you wish to look
at it that way. We in CCTalk owe him and others a great deal as they helped
create the Silicon Valley from which early small computers evolved.



Happy computing, well sort of!



Murray 

I-4004

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Did the 4004 chip start our interest in microcomputing? It is 50 today.
Classic computing begins earlier but for the masses, if they could be
called that in the early seventies, this was it. I hesitate in calling it
the first microprocessor as pc'ers will object.

Happy computing all.

Murray  

Microcomputing nostalgia & cctalk

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

  Nostalgia is great for aging baby-boomers as me. Back in 1978 I along
with a friend bought a Heathkit H1 and spent many leisure hours
constructing it and getting it to boot up! By 1984 I moved on to the Coleco
ADAM and learned BASIC(Well more accurately APPLE Basic) spending too much
time on it rather than on my PhD studies. Trying to write my dissertation
using Writer was a challenge as was getting it to print on the included
daisy-wheel printer – all that clacking. Noise! Noise! as the Grinch says.  But
I did get my doctorate but had to go to S. Korea and Univ. of
Education(TESOL program) to use it.



  Microsoft’s monopoly began in the earliest days of microcomputing. Read
Gate’s letter to programmers /hobbyists to see how a monopolist thinks.
Linux has come along and poked Microsoft in the eye but hasn’t done too
much damage according to this writer. As written here a nostalgia for the
early years may be what we classic computer-philes find so compelling in
cctalk. And to be honest I’ll move to WIN 11 because the choice(s) are
somewhat limited.


Happy computing.


Murray 

Re:CCtalk on Linux vs Windows

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

  I quite agree that one OS isn’t better than another. It is one’s personal
choice. However, it would be amiss of me not to acknowledge that some
people prefer one over another and will do so until someone proves
otherwise. My dear friend and I don’t let this situation get in the way of
our relationship though.

  In the past I have run both WIN and Linux on my machine – a dual-boot
situation I will not carry forward with WIN 11  – and find Linux does some
things better than Windows particularly when I run an emulator(It is based
on a Coleco ADAM I’ve had since1984.)



Happy computing.



Murray  

Linux and the 'clssic' computing world

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

To my knowledge the Linux kernel was released to the public 30 years ago
around this time. My dear friend swears by it and will never go back to
Windows even though WIN 11 is much more secure than previous Windows
versions. Prior to Linux there were other much-earlier operating systems
for 8-bit and 16-bit machines we classic computer users could use. For
emulators now we have a choice but do they work better in Linux or Windows?


Happy computing.


Murray  

Fred Cisin: Death of Clive SInclair

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Clive SInclair was a British entrepreneur who designed and built very small
computers back in the early days of 8-bit computing. Whether he created a
'first' as Fred argues doesn't lessen his role in microcomputing history.
Let's celebrate pioneers who gave us what we have today.

Happy computing.

Murray 

Re: 30 yrs. ago

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

My apologies.   It was 40 years ago that the IBM PC became a retail
computer this month.

Murray 

30 yrs. ago

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

30 years ago this month the IBM PC debuted at $1565. Some say this began
the era of mass-computing and it is now what classiccmp.org
 is all about! For those interested in the OS world
LINUX is 30 years old. Time has passed but this is what classic computing
is all about.


Happy computing.


Murray  

Apple Investment

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Apple went public Dec. 12, 1980 at $22.00/share over 40 years ago. Where
has the time gone! A $1000 investment would be ~45 shares. Today that would
be 5040 shares after 5 splits. Its price today is $121/share. That would be
$609,840. Here in Canada that’s $939,153! Quite the nest egg. It has
certainly paid quite handsomely to have invested in Classic Computers or in
one company back then.


Happy computing. Stay safe.

Murray 


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

WIN 1.0

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

A milestone in 'classic' computing happened Nov. 20, 1985 with the release
of Windows 1.0: A GUI sitting on MS-DOS. Text-based input on it's way out!

Happy computing all.

Murray  


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Computer History

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I've recently reread *Fire In The Valley, Ed. 1,2 &3.* They are the
seminal, authoritative & comprehensive sources for the history of the
microcomputer. We in the classic computer community need to know the
history of our hobby to keep it vital and relevant to today's society. More
than ever we need to know how microcomputers came about that may be helpful
in understanding the role microcomputers play in our lives now.

Happy computing all.

Murray 


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Re: From: John Klos

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

"That might be true for discussions where people don't care to do any
research, or where words like "first" are uses more for hyperbolic
emphasis, but suggesting someone started an industry on a list like this,
I think, doesn't seem out of place."


I agree that using ‘*first**’* has a certain connotation. However, until it
is proven otherwise it’s quite appropriate. If this word were not used, by
me or anyone else, on this website then we never get to learn anything ‘
*new*’. Even in historical writing, of which I’ve done some as a historian,
one has to acknowledge a source, but I for the life of me can’t remember as
I didn’t have the source on my electronic-research rolodex. In such an
occasion, as the note I sent to cctalk, should have stated this. My
apologies.


Happy computing!


Murray  





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Computer stores

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

45 yrs. ago last month, mid-July, Dick Heiser started a new industry, the
retail computer store. It opened in West L.A. under the name Arrow Head
COmputer Company. aka, The Computer Store. This began the direct marketing
of microcomputers to hobbyists, later to the masses of the middle class,
albeit a small market 45 yrs. ago.

Happy computing.

Murray  

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I was interested in computers from grade 11; that would have been in 1967.
I got my first microcomputer in 1978, a Heathkit H8 - terribly priced here
in Canada. From there I went to the Coleco ADAM. It was essentially an
APPLE II clone, well the OS was. Not sure what has become of ADAM-user
groups and whether any computer history museum mentions it or not!



Happy computing!



Murray  

Re: GWBASIC Source Code

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

  GWBASIC- (Gee-Whiz BASIC) is a Microsoft product, designed much along the
line of IBM’s BASICA, that did not need a ROM BASIC and was interpreted.
Not necessarily basic in design or purpose as defined by Oxford English
Dictionary & Wikipedia and Computer Desktop Encyclopedia, some(purists) say
the latter two shouldn’t be used with the former, GWBASIC nevertheless was
an important development in the early years of our hobby. Little has been
mentioned about the source code:
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/microsoft-open-sources-gw-basic/

It’s available on GitHub for download and use in WIN 7 to 10 as far as I
know!



  At that time(1983) in micro-computing history it did what was intended,
help microcomputer owners/users with limited processor and memory
capabilities. Serving this purpose, was there a better BASIC? No doubt. I
used ADAM-BASIC, much like APPLE BASIC, to write silly-little programs or
more-sophisticated ones. Hobbyists, experimenters and early microcomputer
lovers had another tool to master. It’s success may be attributed more to
marketing than anything else but early microcomputer users were happy to
get their hands on something new. And, Microsoft knew marketing, not as
well as APPLE, but the game was capitalism and getting software out the
door! Being first or second was not necessarily the primary reason for
rising to the top. And today: Is LOGO or Python any better teaching tools
than GWBASIC for beginners? I hardly doubt that.



Happy computing.


Murray  

Computing and communicating in a COVID-19 world

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

The virus-world we are living in has seen Internet usage dramatically
increase world-wide. Thanks to pioneers like Cerf, Kahn, Crocker and
Kleinrock, sounds like a law firm, paved the way for the packet-switch
system Bell & others fought to prevent. I recall the early days of
computing, classic, retro or otherwise defined, that was slow, but had to
do more than now, as the hardware wasn’t so great or more accurately small
and fast. Their were machines that allowed us to communicate at 300 baud
and I was happy!



  Stay safe. Happy computing and communicating.



Murray  

Larry Tesler - Computer Pioneer

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Heard of death today of Larry Tesler, pioneer worker at Xerox Parc. He
advanced the era of human-computer interaction. He 'created' copy-
and-paste and cut-and-paste which made everyday computing in DOS-age easier
before GUI-age made mouse-driven commands easier on computer users. Early
pioneers are leaving us and I state their drive to innovate to advance
computer-use easier is being lost.

Happy computing all.

Murray 

Re: First Internet message

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I’m not familiar with U.S. law but didn’t Xerox ‘own’ the patent(s) to GUI
technology? Again to my knowledge Microsoft and Apple both ‘appropriated’
and/or ‘misapproriated’, depending on your point-of-view, this exact
technology! Does commercial-use, read profit, subsume legal rights
eventually in the U.S. and I suppose elsewhere in the capitalist world?
Given what has happened in the past 45 yrs. or so, and the almost equal
value of Microsoft and Apple(determined by the stock exchange), has the
marketplace prevailed? Have we the consumer benefited the most or more
accurately the 2 richest high-tech, transnational corporations?


Happy computing - and best wishes for a prosperous New Year for all.



 Murray  ☺

Re: First Internet message and ...

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Grumpy Ol' Fred   ci...@xenosoft.com



*Wrote:*



*“More worrisome is that Murray is NOT A "NEWCOMER" who will be "scared off" *

*by corrections of his facts!  This is not the first time that he has *

*needed to be admonished to be VERY specific about what was "FIRST" about *

*something.  He wrote about the exact same event three weeks ago, on the *

*correct date, with much more accurate details, other than calling it "the *

*first inter-computer communication".  Not sure where he got the November *

*21 date, nor the "SIXTY years ago" (probably a simple misteak)*



*He is quite capable of some fairly good writing.  I don't remember any *

*prior time that he had to be reminded to "PICK A TOPIC!" rather than *

*string together eight unrelated concepts into four sentences.*



*On the other hand, if his confusion was recreational, that's OK, too.*

*Let's have a toast with him to the people who got the idea to work, *

*disunirregardless of who was "first".”*





**  *



  Things we historians talk about are ‘firsts’ and ‘facts’. If we go to
original source(s) maybe then we will get things right. I guess the best
that can be said is we agree to disagree. A sad commentary in this age of
what my ‘facts’ and your ‘facts’ are, are not the same but we historians
should do our best to state ‘firsts’ and ‘facts’ are indeed that to the
best of our knowledge. The 60 yrs. as noted was a math error and here I
spent years as a BASIC, C and C++ programmer as isn’t mathematics the basis
for all programming languages? Let's indeed toast to all micro-computing
progenitors for making our hobby possible.



  I’ve been a hobbyist and experimenter since the 1970s though I worked on
mini-computers(PDP-8/11) in the 1960s. I got to work on them in high
school; I know we were rather privileged.



  For microcomputers it began in April 1978 when I built the Heathkit
H8($2500 Cdn.) a computer based on the PDP-11 with 4K(B) of an 8K(B) card;
now $2500 will buy a truly powerful home computer with 16/32GB of memory.
My second, the Coleco ADAM, computer was Aug. 1984. A bit more powerful and
more useful to be sure. Finally in 1989 I moved into the IBM PC world – the
Compaq Deskpro 386 which ran DOS, Lotus 1-2-3 and Windows 2 that could run
Word and Excel. Wow! Notebooks followed.



  And now(well Aug. 2019 to be precise) I built my own custom Mini-ITX PC
from parts sourced here and there for $750 Cdn. This makes me nostalgic for
the old days of computing we talk about on cctalk.



Happy computing.



Murray  ☺

Correction for First Internet Message

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I apologize for the wrong date. Should have said Nov. 21, 1969. Makes more
sense timewise...

Happy computing

Murray  ☺

First Internet message and ...

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

The first Internet message was sent 60 yrs. ago on Nov. 21 between SRI and
UCLA. It was one-to-many, or more accurate one-to-one, but the world today
is many-to-many though cctalk runs through a moderator. The Internet
democratizes and gives a certain freedom to us all but it can lead to
mis-information  from "one" or mis-interpretation by the "many".
Computerization of society as seen through cctalk tells this story well
mainly through the hardware side.

Happy computing.

Murray  ☺

50 yrs. ago today

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

The first inter-computer  communication happened 50 years ago today. L.
Kleinrock part of that historic moment, said, and I paraphrase here,
ARPANET was the instrument that was to enable computers to talk to each
other remotely. He sent “LO” because the system crashed(how surprising was
that!) This was the precursor to the inter-net, moving from the intra-net.

 Happy computing all!

Murray  ☺


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Coleco & Atari

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I came across an old copy of Popular Science on yesterday, forthwith I know
not how, that had a story of two vintage/old/retro/classic-computers. How
old? 1983. Coleco ADAM, my favourite, and Atari 600XL, not so much. I still
have my ADAM. No not why. But isn’t this why we all belong to classiccomp. And
$600. How quaint! BTW(sorry), it had an update on CP/M called CP/M Plus.
Gosh, I miss those old days.

Happy computing all.

Murray  







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Re: Pioneers of computing

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Thanks for the info on chip made by Texas Instruments. It was used in a
pocket/plug-in calculator I had while working as a payroll clerk back in
the early 70s.



The link is: http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/ti_cal-tech1.html



I’ve written in my book on the History of the Microcomputer a history of
the processing chip as the timeline follows an approximation of:



Late *1950*s – patent on integrated circuit by Texas Instruments


*1950*s to *1960*s – move from vacuum tubes to TTL technology

  programs/functions in ROM



*1970*s – 4004 to 8008 to 8086  -> This begins the era of electronic
computerization of society.

->  programmable by user and/or firmware


We are now in the early human era of the electronification-computerization
of society. *Classic Computing* takes us back to the very early years.


Happy computing!

Pioneers of computing

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Back in 1965 Jack Kilby, Jerry Merryman and James Van Tassel at texas
Instruments created an integrated circuit designed to replace the
calulator. Historians, though not all, credit this development as the
beginning of the electronic-computing revolution that was truly underway by
the mid-70s. Vintage/classic computing our hobby goes back that far as us
baby-boomers can attest to.

Happy computing all!

Re: Merry Christmas (Tom Manos)

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I hope everyone is having a wonderful Christmas and may the New Year bring
all your computing wishes true. Happy computing all!

Paul Allen

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

One of the founders of MicroSoft has passed on. The world has lost a true
early computer pioneer.

Murray--

Speed now & then

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I’m not trying to date myself but have things truly sped up? In 1970’s
Toronto I had a classic computer, sorry can’t recall what it was, connected
to a 300 baud modem; by early 80’s had ‘zoomed’ to 9600 baud. Oh, my! [ A
typical file size to download was probably 1 MB. ] Speed indeed! Yet now,
here in rural Ontario, Canada, I’m at 5MB/s. Yikes! (Friends in Toronto are
at 50MB/s.) We can do the math but content, particularly multimedia, has
swollen in size.[ 1 GB is not unheard of. ] Were classic computing days
that much slower? Happy computing. Murray  -:)


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Modems & Xerox

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I started accessing BBSs back in the early 70s with a 300 baud modem.
>From there it went to 1200; 2400; 9600; 28.8K and 56Kilobaud. All on
dialup! Now at 5 Mbits/sec. here in Ontario. An American friend has
250Mb/s download. Yikes!  The classic computer era taught us patience
didn’t it? BTW, one had to have a private phone line not a party line
for a modem to work. Making our hobby more expensive!

On the business-side of computing: Xerox sold 50.1% of its business to
Fujifilm, Japan. Xerox Parc was a seminal institution in early classic
computing era: Mouse and graphics input for instance.

Happy computing!

Murray  :)

3 computing events

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Three ‘computing’ events are happening:



1)  The i-Pad was introduced by S. Jobs 8 yrs. ago and defined a ‘new’
computing paradigm for the masses. The reason I mention this event is
because a young friend(20 yrs. old) said “That’s ancient computing!” What
is one to make of classic-computing then?



2)  Bitcoin mining – The energy usage is extreme because of GPUs. Was
16-bit computer era, employing the 80287, such an energy hog?



3)  INTEL doesn’t seem to have been hurt by Meltdown & Specture
financially- speaking. Had excellent earnings and profits for the last
quarter but ‘may’ change this quarter. However, INTEL marches on going from
4004 to 7980XE. AMD was/in the picture but financially-wise…



Happy computing all!



Murray  J

Spectre & Meltdown

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I wrote about Spectre and Meltdown recently: INTEL took its time to inform
the world! Did it inform the world back in earlier days about potential
flaws? Not to blame INTEL only: What about Zilog, etc.? Or did pre-Internet
era protect us computer-classic users? What about running emulation
software as I’ve been doing with ADAM?



Happy computing!



Murray  J

Spectre & Meltdown

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

This may be off-topic but these latest uprocessor exploits has raised
a question: Are the 'old/classic' uprocessors using x86 technology in
the same boat? The very earliest ones, i.e., 1970s and early 80's.
probably not. How many are actually in use and/or on the Net?

Happy computing!

Murray  :)

Re: Message 4 on Computing from 1976

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

"Message: 4
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 10:35:18 +1100
From: Nigel Williams 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

Subject: Re: Computing from 1976
Message-ID:

Computing from 1976

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

I was perusing my old computer magazine collection the other day and
came across an article entitled: “Fast-Growing new hobby, Real
Computers you assemble yourself”, Dec. 1976. It was about MITS,
Sphere, IMSAI and SWT. 4K memory was $500. Yikes! Even more here in
Canada. Now this is true Classic Computing. Have a Happy New Year
everyone. May the computing gods shine down on us all in 2018.

Happy computing.  Murray  :)

Visicalc

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Today marks the 36 anniversary of Visicalc a seminal program in the
world of classic computing.

Happy computing!

Murray  :)

Subject: Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle - Firsts:

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:22:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cameron Kaiser 
To: bill.gunshan...@hotmail.com, cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle - Firsts
Message-ID: <20170915.v8fmmw5r7405...@floodgap.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


>> I used to read his column for its humor value but I always thought
>> of him as an idiot as far as comuters were concerned.


Apparently this opinion is fairly widely shared:

"As far as comuters (should it not be computers) were concerned." I
guess one is entitled to their opinion. As an historian of modern
technology and a subset of it, social media, I can only conclude that
the Net allows one to say what they want and have many 'thousands'
concur/agree.

Happy computing all!

Murray  :)

Subject: Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a microcomputer

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Was Jerry Pournelle the FIRST to write a PUBLISHED NOVEL on a
MICROCOMPUTER? Yikes! Talk about SHOUTING. As a historian is it worth
the aggravation to please everyone? Does revisionism take away the
honour(Cdn. Here!) Jerry Pournelle rightly deserves for pioneering
work in our beloved computing genre? Are the passing of our early
microcomputing pioneers
leaving a hole in our history?

Happy computing all!

Murray  :)

Micral - France

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

>From earlest days:

Here in France and saw a Micral…Now there’s a classic computer.
Originated in 1973; 8008 :) :)

Happy computing all!

Murray  :)