[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 10/29/22 01:06, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:

Re below. why would they refuse cash?
  And vy the way, as soon as I had it, I offered it, but
they refused the tender.
If they accepted any amount from Sellam, they were on the hook for a lot 
of laws
and regulations in the state.  CA has some of the most extensive tenancy 
rules anywhere.


From their treatment of Sellam, they broke them, but when you step into
the legal realm, you get into another cesspool.  Ruled by lots of 
money.  If you

can't pay rent, you usually can't afford the retainer for a good lawyer.

I had a dispute to pursue about 7 years ago, and when I sought out a 
reasonable
firm to handle it, the starting retainer was $25,000.  No guarantees.  
So Sellam

was between a rock and a hard place most likely.

The way the landlord handled his collection was stupid, so I'm not sure 
I understand

that either.

I'm going only on the fact I know Sellam lost a huge collection.  He has 
disclosed
nothing to me.  I'm reading in a lot from a loss I suffer from outright 
theft of my
own in Riverside county.  Mine involved criminal behavior, but again $$ 
rule.


The Storage wars show and fad of doing such things as well as how tax
sales are handled in the country is a total crock.  The law breaks into 
a part
of rights and the like and then equity.  The rights part is pretty well 
defined.


But those who want do screw you like tax collectors, storage unit owners can
unfairly (my term) seize all assets you have on the property to satisfy 
the debt


In the case of Storage units (not what Sellam had, he was a regular 
tenant) they
seize the entire contents from you after a very short time of 
delinquency and sell

it all and pocket the proceeds like they won the lottery.

All sucks.

Still sad he had his situation after all this time.

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

Re below. why would they refuse cash?
 And vy the way, as soon as I had it, I offered it, but
they refused the tender.




of the building.  The landlord doesn't get to keep a million dollars of
property over $4,000 of missed rent.  It is not lawful to liquidate any of
the tenant's property to offset the debt, unless they go through a long and
drawn out legal process.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Stein via cctalk 
wrote:

> Shoulda paid the rent.
>
> A sad tale indeed.
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 4:11 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > The good news is that most of my best stuff was either already with me
> or I
> > was able to get out, including my two Lisa 1's, my (straight) PDP-8, and
> > several other precious items.  I long since sold off most of this to pay
> to
> > live, since at the same time they destroyed my collection they destroyed
> my
> > business (not to mention my life's work).
> >
> > I've gone on to build a new collection out of the old, one that is--like
> my
> > original collection--unrivaled anywhere on the planet.  But this time
> I've
> > erected castle walls around it, surrounded by a moat filled with
> > alligators.
> >
> > Sellam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:58 AM Ryan de Laplante via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before
> being
> > > locked out again.  I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m
> guessing
> > > you prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when recovering
> > the
> > > 20%, such as your Lisa 1?
> > >
> > > I kept my collection in storage lockers for years.  I kept moving to
> > > larger and larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because
> my
> > > collecting got out of control.  Prices kept going up every year and it
> > was
> > > a nightmare having to pay what I did just to store the collection.
> > >  Fortunately I was able to move to a house and relocated the collection
> > to
> > > the basement.  Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the
> > > remaining lower priority pieces to the first person who could clear the
> > > locker over a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it
> didn’t
> > go
> > > to a recycler.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Oct 17, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Long story very short:
> > > >
> > > > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was
> > stored
> > > > and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access
> and
> > > was
> > > > able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out
> again
> > > for
> > > > good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to
> > scatter
> > > > it to the wind.
> > > >
> > > > Sellam
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years
> ago
> > in
> > > >> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> > > >>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> > > "General
> > > >> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
> Cc:
> > > Tom
> > > >> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage
> Computer
> > > >> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer
> > Heist
> > > of
> > > >> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
  

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 11:29, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk 
  wrote:
 ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM 
 radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 
 1920s).
>>> 
>>> That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual 
>>> USA-centric Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online 
>>> anywhere?
>>> 
>>>  —FritzM.
>> 
>> I’d be interested in the article as well.
>> 
>> There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and Armstrong-centric, 
>> even if someone or some institution in Europe did it first.
> 
> Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I tried 
> to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer.

Is there something about any of this in the talk page for FM? I have enough 
Wikipedia edits that I get to vote and am willing to add something to the talk 
page.

But this goes beyond Wikipedia. I have plenty of dead tree references that 
don’t mention anything before Armstrong.

alan 

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove via cctalk]

Apologies for the off-topic.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 at 15:34, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk
 wrote:
> I got a government official to give me the legal definition and
> published it on wikipedia, quoting the official source.
>
Was it Measurement Canada's complaint form? Because they - that is,
Measurement Canada - has now published a helpful poster on the
definition of what units of volume draft beer may be sold by:

For the curious it's in the link above.

Best regards,
Christian

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

Hear hear!

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 3:21 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Well, that's because the "WIKI" in "Wikipedia" stands for "We Impose
> Knowledge Interpretation".
>
> Sadly, the promise of the internet has been utterly destroyed by
> megalomaniacs, zealots, and abject morons.  It's up to people like us to
> preserve history as it actually happened, and not as the would-be masters
> would have us believe.
>
> This is why we do what we do.
>
> Sellam
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:29 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> 
> > >>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM
> > radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late
> > 1920s).
> > >>
> > >> That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual
> > USA-centric Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online
> > anywhere?
> > >>
> > >>   —FritzM.
> > >
> > > I’d be interested in the article as well.
> > >
> > > There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and
> > Armstrong-centric, even if someone or some institution in Europe did it
> > first.
> >
> > Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I
> > tried to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer.
> >
> > The correct answer is to recognize that (a) Armstrong was NOT first with
> > FM transmission, (b) Armstrong was first with FM-specific receivers
> > (discriminator), and (c) the technology direction started by Armstrong is
> > the one that got traction and evolved into what we have now.
> >
> > As I mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article, Idzerda's FM
> > transmitter is like Leif Eriksson's discovery of America -- he did it
> > first, but it didn't lead to anything.  Still, he made a living off a
> > commercial broadcast venture using his technology for 5 years or so,
> until
> > the creation of the BBC made his business uncompetitive.
> >
> > paul
> >
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk]

Hear! hear!  When I was teaching college I told my students I would 
cross out any references to wikipedia in a paper.


I saw on Wikipedia that there is no legal definition of a pint of beer 
in Canada.


I got a government official to give me the legal definition and 
published it on wikipedia, quoting the official source.


A few weeks later, it had been changed back to 'there is no legal 
definition of a pint of beer in Canada!'  Then I found my account 
blocked, but they still wanted me to donate every year!


(By the way it is 568.26 ml, and 5% a.b.v.)

Come to Canada for the beer, stay because your car won't start!

cheers,

Nigel

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591


On 2022-10-19 15:21, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

Well, that's because the "WIKI" in "Wikipedia" stands for "We Impose
Knowledge Interpretation".

Sadly, the promise of the internet has been utterly destroyed by
megalomaniacs, zealots, and abject morons.  It's up to people like us to
preserve history as it actually happened, and not as the would-be masters
would have us believe.

This is why we do what we do.

Sellam

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:29 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:




On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:




On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM

radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late
1920s).

That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual

USA-centric Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online
anywhere?

   —FritzM.

I’d be interested in the article as well.

There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and

Armstrong-centric, even if someone or some institution in Europe did it
first.

Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I
tried to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer.

The correct answer is to recognize that (a) Armstrong was NOT first with
FM transmission, (b) Armstrong was first with FM-specific receivers
(discriminator), and (c) the technology direction started by Armstrong is
the one that got traction and evolved into what we have now.

As I mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article, Idzerda's FM
transmitter is like Leif Eriksson's discovery of America -- he did it
first, but it didn't lead to anything.  Still, he made a living off a
commercial broadcast venture using his technology for 5 years or so, until
the creation of the BBC made his business uncompetitive.

 paul

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

Well, that's because the "WIKI" in "Wikipedia" stands for "We Impose
Knowledge Interpretation".

Sadly, the promise of the internet has been utterly destroyed by
megalomaniacs, zealots, and abject morons.  It's up to people like us to
preserve history as it actually happened, and not as the would-be masters
would have us believe.

This is why we do what we do.

Sellam

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:29 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM
> radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late
> 1920s).
> >>
> >> That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual
> USA-centric Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online
> anywhere?
> >>
> >>   —FritzM.
> >
> > I’d be interested in the article as well.
> >
> > There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and
> Armstrong-centric, even if someone or some institution in Europe did it
> first.
>
> Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I
> tried to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer.
>
> The correct answer is to recognize that (a) Armstrong was NOT first with
> FM transmission, (b) Armstrong was first with FM-specific receivers
> (discriminator), and (c) the technology direction started by Armstrong is
> the one that got traction and evolved into what we have now.
>
> As I mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article, Idzerda's FM
> transmitter is like Leif Eriksson's discovery of America -- he did it
> first, but it didn't lead to anything.  Still, he made a living off a
> commercial broadcast venture using his technology for 5 years or so, until
> the creation of the BBC made his business uncompetitive.
>
> paul
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM 
>>> radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 
>>> 1920s).
>> 
>> That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual 
>> USA-centric Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online 
>> anywhere?
>> 
>>   —FritzM.
> 
> I’d be interested in the article as well.
> 
> There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and Armstrong-centric, 
> even if someone or some institution in Europe did it first.

Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I tried to 
update Wikipedia, is not the right answer.

The correct answer is to recognize that (a) Armstrong was NOT first with FM 
transmission, (b) Armstrong was first with FM-specific receivers 
(discriminator), and (c) the technology direction started by Armstrong is the 
one that got traction and evolved into what we have now.

As I mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article, Idzerda's FM 
transmitter is like Leif Eriksson's discovery of America -- he did it first, 
but it didn't lead to anything.  Still, he made a living off a commercial 
broadcast venture using his technology for 5 years or so, until the creation of 
the BBC made his business uncompetitive.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM radio, 
>> in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 1920s).
> 
> That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual USA-centric 
> Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online anywhere?
> 
>—FritzM.

I’d be interested in the article as well.

There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and Armstrong-centric, 
even if someone or some institution in Europe did it first.

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Ali via cctalk]

> Florida seems to be particularly creative, too: pay your contractor,
> contractor doesn't pay their supplier, supplier puts lien on _your_
> house for the money owed. Want to keep your house? Better pay again
> and then try to extract that money from the contractor later by
> way of the courts.

Lien laws are total BS and written by special interest groups. They are also
not unique to any one state. They exist in all states. Although some places
are slightly better. In CA a lien can't be perfected unless you go to "big
court" which costs money and lawyers. So unless you stiffed someone of out
of mucho bucks it usually never happens.

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM radio, 
>> in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 1920s).
> 
> That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual USA-centric 
> Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online anywhere?
> 
>—FritzM.

It was published in the April 2020 issue of Electron, the Dutch amateur radio 
magazine.  But that isn't available on line.

I realized I could just make the original English version of the article 
available.  I realized the simulation output graphic I mentioned wasn't in 
there so I added it.  You can find it here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vro6xe9oy0ybu5a/FM%20100%20years.pdf?dl=0

paul

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Stuff Received via cctalk]

On 2022-10-19 10:06, Raphaël Jacquot via cctalk wrote:


Le 19/10/2022 à 15:50, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk a écrit :


Florida seems to be particularly creative, too: pay your contractor,
contractor doesn't pay their supplier, supplier puts lien on _your_
house for the money owed. Want to keep your house? Better pay again
and then try to extract that money from the contractor later by
way of the courts.


this whole paragraph sounds utterly illegal...


No -- perfectly legal in many jurisdictions in both the US and Canada.  
In fact, you need not even be told of the lien.


Reputable contractors will give you (or you should demand) a release 
from liens.


N.

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM radio, 
> in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 1920s).

That sounds interesting, Paul  — I’m only familiar with the usual USA-centric 
Armstrong lore.  Is your article available to read online anywhere?

—FritzM.

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> Owe the local government a few bucks in unpaid tax? They steal your
> house (well, technically not - they put a lien on it and then foreclose).

Yes, if you do not pay you taxes (or rent) - you SHOULD lose your land
after some amount of time.

What I am talking about is Eminent Domain (in the US). The government
taking your land for the greater good. People think this is easy for
corporations to do, but is not. It takes a lot of time and money, plus
tends to be political damaging for the politicians involved.

If it was easy, every scumbag land developer would be doing it.

--
Will

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Raphaël Jacquot via cctalk]

Le 19/10/2022 à 15:50, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk a écrit :


Florida seems to be particularly creative, too: pay your contractor,
contractor doesn't pay their supplier, supplier puts lien on _your_
house for the money owed. Want to keep your house? Better pay again
and then try to extract that money from the contractor later by
way of the courts.


this whole paragraph sounds utterly illegal...

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Alexander Schreiber via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:36:58AM -0400, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
> Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean.
> 
> Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for
> people taking your land.

Owe the local government a few bucks in unpaid tax? They steal your
house (well, technically not - they put a lien on it and then foreclose).

Lowest amount I've read about was around $9 in unpaid taxes resulted
in a 25k $ house being grabbed. Was apparently later ruled as "nope,
can't do that" for this case, but still, not a fun time.

Florida seems to be particularly creative, too: pay your contractor,
contractor doesn't pay their supplier, supplier puts lien on _your_
house for the money owed. Want to keep your house? Better pay again
and then try to extract that money from the contractor later by
way of the courts.

And then there is the legal fun bag of the forfeiture related laws.

Kind regards,
   Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."  -- Thomas A. Edison

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Oct 18, 2022, at 11:51 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> I like how having the old hardware gives physical "witness" and "evidence"
>> that all the old stories are true - people did invent and create these
>> things, they didn't just appear from aliens.
> 
> Indeed. I am teaching a security class on TCP/IP and I recently got my AT 
> 7300 PC up and running with its Ethernet card and Wollogong TCP stack.

Another story of using old technology: a couple of years ago I wrote an article 
about the invention of FM radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in 
the USA in the late 1920s).  I wanted to simulate the circuit used, and found 
the easy way to do that was with complex number arithmetic.

So I wrote a simulation of the circuit in question in ALGOL 60, running in a 
SIMH emulator.  In other words, simulating a 100 year old invention using 50 
year old computer technology.  Why do it that way?  Why not?

Fun.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

I like how having the old hardware gives physical "witness" and "evidence"
that all the old stories are true - people did invent and create these
things, they didn't just appear from aliens.


Indeed. I am teaching a security class on TCP/IP and I recently got my 
AT 7300 PC up and running with its Ethernet card and Wollogong TCP stack.


Granted the system doesn't have resolver/DNS libraries but even though 
it is almost 40 years old it still can connect to the most modern PC 
system, transfer data, and work using the same TCP/IP protocol.


I plan to show it to my students (along with how insanely easy it is to 
hack). But still, tat's stability over time.


CZ

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Steve Lewis via cctalk]

I had a thought once that the ultimate computer museum would be in orbit.
 Actually, I think there was some Star Trek episode along those lines (not
the one where Data was captured to be put into a museum, but something
similar).

I like how having the old hardware gives physical "witness" and "evidence"
that all the old stories are true - people did invent and create these
things, they didn't just appear from aliens.


I get sentimental thinking how we're the "last generation" to know the
world before computers.   I understand computers have technically "run the
world" maybe since the 1950s (in terms of big business accounting and
logistics, air traffic control, world banking, the tech that got us to the
moon, and long distance calls -- my father says he remembers talking to a
switchboard operator and asking to be connected to his grandmother by first
name, i.e. "Hi Susan, can you connect me to Martha Bell?", and the operator
recognized his voice and made the connection).   But you know what I mean
-- a world with no smartphone, no spycams at every corner, no logins,
paying with cash, and NOT having 24/7 international news.


Not saying things were better, just that it's a transition in humanity and
we are "digital pioneers."  What if the next "country" isn't physical, but
is a whole virtual space?  I think the day is coming on that -- if we
can't  move out into space, folks might "move" into the meta-virtual space
perhaps.  And why can't CyberSpace be a new "continent" or multiple ones?
  Humans shouldn't live like chickens in a henhouse (well, in my opinion)
-- but on the other hand, maybe that's a necessary step to (eventually) get
the critical-mass of engineering/theoretical physicists-type stuff in
virtual space that does lead to more advanced techniques to get into
space?   And if ISP servers are in orbit, what jurisdiction do physical
governments now have?


Not saying any of that is a Good-Thing - however, in general, we can't stop
"progress."

I see these online quantum computers that we can rent time on now -- and
it's like the 1950s/1960s all over again, when they rented time on
mainframes.  We'll see where it leads!

"smaller" collections - those are important, we need backup and redundancy
for all the usual reasons.  Fires and weather calamity still happen.  But
as the cost of real estate and land increases, that also increases the tax
burden -- sadly, eventually we can't reserve comfortable space for old
equipment.

If computer museums become "Digital Temples" and we start the Order of Bit
Twiddlers, could we then claim a religious exemption for tax purposes?















On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:46 AM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > All you need is a the local government to declare eminent domain and
> > greater user for the public good.
>
> Those would be the "significant barriers to cross".
>
> --
> Will
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Oct 18, 2022, at 7:42 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
>> Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean.
>> Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for
>> people taking your land.
> 
> And for the younger crowd it's very expensive now. Not like the old days 
> (assuming you live near a job center.)
> 
>   - Ethan

This last weekend was the “Portland Retro Gaming Expo”, it was something of an 
eye opener as to how prices have gone up.  There were some good deals, for 
example I was tempted by the two Commodore 128D’s and the Atari Stacy one 
seller had, but as a whole, the prices leaned towards crazy.  

Thankfully I bought most of my collection of classic computers in the late 
90’s.  These days if I’m buying anything, it’s usually something modern to 
extend an old system, or a part I need.  I’ll also admit a certain amount of 
bewilderment on people getting excited to collect  something like a Pentium II.

Zane

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

All you need is a the local government to declare eminent domain and
greater user for the public good.


Arthur Dent's home, and planet, were bulldozed to make way for bypasses.

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Teo Zenios via cctalk]

Don't pay your  taxes and it goes quick.

-Original Message- 
From: William Donzelli via cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:36 AM 
To: Ethan O'Toole ; William Donzelli via cctalk 
Cc: William Donzelli 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012 


Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean.

Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for
people taking your land.

--
Will

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:15 AM Ethan O'Toole  wrote:


> Own your land.
> Museum or individual.

You never own your land. They can always take it.

- Ethan



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 10/18/22 11:43, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
All you need is a the local government to declare eminent domain and 
greater user for the public good.




As the people and businesses along I-83 in Harrisburg, PA will
gladly tell you.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

All you need is a the local government to declare eminent domain and 
greater user for the public good.


On 10/18/2022 9:36 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:

Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean.

Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for
people taking your land.

--
Will

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:15 AM Ethan O'Toole  wrote:

Own your land.
Museum or individual.

You never own your land. They can always take it.

 - Ethan

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 09:15 AM 10/18/2022, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:
>>Own your land.
>>Museum or individual.
>
>You never own your land. They can always take it.

Far more probable than someone taking your property?  Wanting to give it up.
Needing to give it up.  Or your death, and then someone else wants and needs 
to get rid of it.

A year ago today, someone made a great offer on my office building and I had
less than 30 days to move out 30 years and 4,500 square feet of crap.  
I managed to down-size into about 1,500 square feet.

- John

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> All you need is a the local government to declare eminent domain and
> greater user for the public good.

Those would be the "significant barriers to cross".

--
Will

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean.
Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for
people taking your land.


And for the younger crowd it's very expensive now. Not like the old days 
(assuming you live near a job center.)


- Ethan

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean.

Anyway, in the US, there are *significant* barriers to cross for
people taking your land.

--
Will

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:15 AM Ethan O'Toole  wrote:
>
> > Own your land.
> > Museum or individual.
>
> You never own your land. They can always take it.
>
> - Ethan
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

Own your land.
Museum or individual.


You never own your land. They can always take it.

- Ethan

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Amen!

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 7:17 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Own your land.
>
> Museum or individual.
>
> --
> Will
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 7:13 PM Kevin Parker via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
> > I remember that Sellam and I remember visiting your facility on a trip
> my wife and I did to the US. It was very impressive collection and that’s
> an understatement.
> >
> > It’s a shame all that was lost ☹ It served to reinforce my approach to
> this s tuff, grab first ask questions later otherwise it becomes landfill.
> >
> > Apologies if this is not appropriate for this list but your landlord was
> a flog.
> >
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
> > Sent: Monday, 17 October 2022 19:55
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Cc: Sellam Abraham 
> > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012
> >
> > Long story very short:
> >
> > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
> and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and was
> able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for
> good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
> it to the wind.
> >
> > Sellam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago
> > > in non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> > >  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> > > "General
> > > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
> > > Tom Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage
> > > Computer Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great
> > > VintageComputer Heist of 2012". What was that about? Who stole what
> and where andwhy?
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Not saying that what the landlord did was ethically, morally or even
legally correct, just that you could have avoided the whole disaster; I'm
sure the community would have gladly chipped in to help, but I think your
attitude at the time was not very helpful..

You certainly had (and have) my sympathy, but at the same time I was pissed
because IMO as de facto 'curator' of a pretty special collection, much of
it no doubt donated, you had a certain responsibility to protect it.

As you say, let's not revive the whole sad tale; glad to hear you're back
on your feet.

mike

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 7:56 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I'm trying not to extend this conversation, because I am not interested in
> a pity-party, but this kind of comment is insulting.  Of course I should
> have paid the rent.  And vy the way, as soon as I had it, I offered it, but
> they refused the tender.
>
> Regardless, when someone gets evicted, they and their stuff get thrown out
> of the building.  The landlord doesn't get to keep a million dollars of
> property over $4,000 of missed rent.  It is not lawful to liquidate any of
> the tenant's property to offset the debt, unless they go through a long and
> drawn out legal process.
>
> Sellam
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Stein via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Shoulda paid the rent.
> >
> > A sad tale indeed.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 4:11 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > The good news is that most of my best stuff was either already with me
> > or I
> > > was able to get out, including my two Lisa 1's, my (straight) PDP-8,
> and
> > > several other precious items.  I long since sold off most of this to
> pay
> > to
> > > live, since at the same time they destroyed my collection they
> destroyed
> > my
> > > business (not to mention my life's work).
> > >
> > > I've gone on to build a new collection out of the old, one that
> is--like
> > my
> > > original collection--unrivaled anywhere on the planet.  But this time
> > I've
> > > erected castle walls around it, surrounded by a moat filled with
> > > alligators.
> > >
> > > Sellam
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:58 AM Ryan de Laplante via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before
> > being
> > > > locked out again.  I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m
> > guessing
> > > > you prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when
> recovering
> > > the
> > > > 20%, such as your Lisa 1?
> > > >
> > > > I kept my collection in storage lockers for years.  I kept moving to
> > > > larger and larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because
> > my
> > > > collecting got out of control.  Prices kept going up every year and
> it
> > > was
> > > > a nightmare having to pay what I did just to store the collection.
> > > >  Fortunately I was able to move to a house and relocated the
> collection
> > > to
> > > > the basement.  Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the
> > > > remaining lower priority pieces to the first person who could clear
> the
> > > > locker over a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it
> > didn’t
> > > go
> > > > to a recycler.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Oct 17, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> > > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Long story very short:
> > > > >
> > > > > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was
> > > stored
> > > > > and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access
> > and
> > > > was
> > > > > able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out
> > again
> > > > for
> > > > > good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to
> > > scatter
> > > > > it to the wind.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sellam
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years
> > ago
> > > in
> > > > >> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> > > > >>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > > > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> > > > "General
> > > > >> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
> > Cc:
> > > > Tom
> > > > >> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage
> > Computer
> > > > >> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer
> > > Heist
> > > > of
> > > > >> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

Mike,

I'm trying not to extend this conversation, because I am not interested in
a pity-party, but this kind of comment is insulting.  Of course I should
have paid the rent.  And vy the way, as soon as I had it, I offered it, but
they refused the tender.

Regardless, when someone gets evicted, they and their stuff get thrown out
of the building.  The landlord doesn't get to keep a million dollars of
property over $4,000 of missed rent.  It is not lawful to liquidate any of
the tenant's property to offset the debt, unless they go through a long and
drawn out legal process.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:11 PM Mike Stein via cctalk 
wrote:

> Shoulda paid the rent.
>
> A sad tale indeed.
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 4:11 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > The good news is that most of my best stuff was either already with me
> or I
> > was able to get out, including my two Lisa 1's, my (straight) PDP-8, and
> > several other precious items.  I long since sold off most of this to pay
> to
> > live, since at the same time they destroyed my collection they destroyed
> my
> > business (not to mention my life's work).
> >
> > I've gone on to build a new collection out of the old, one that is--like
> my
> > original collection--unrivaled anywhere on the planet.  But this time
> I've
> > erected castle walls around it, surrounded by a moat filled with
> > alligators.
> >
> > Sellam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:58 AM Ryan de Laplante via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before
> being
> > > locked out again.  I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m
> guessing
> > > you prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when recovering
> > the
> > > 20%, such as your Lisa 1?
> > >
> > > I kept my collection in storage lockers for years.  I kept moving to
> > > larger and larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because
> my
> > > collecting got out of control.  Prices kept going up every year and it
> > was
> > > a nightmare having to pay what I did just to store the collection.
> > >  Fortunately I was able to move to a house and relocated the collection
> > to
> > > the basement.  Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the
> > > remaining lower priority pieces to the first person who could clear the
> > > locker over a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it
> didn’t
> > go
> > > to a recycler.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Oct 17, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Long story very short:
> > > >
> > > > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was
> > stored
> > > > and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access
> and
> > > was
> > > > able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out
> again
> > > for
> > > > good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to
> > scatter
> > > > it to the wind.
> > > >
> > > > Sellam
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years
> ago
> > in
> > > >> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> > > >>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> > > "General
> > > >> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
> Cc:
> > > Tom
> > > >> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage
> Computer
> > > >> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer
> > Heist
> > > of
> > > >> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

Own your land.

Museum or individual.

--
Will


On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 7:13 PM Kevin Parker via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I remember that Sellam and I remember visiting your facility on a trip my 
> wife and I did to the US. It was very impressive collection and that’s an 
> understatement.
>
> It’s a shame all that was lost ☹ It served to reinforce my approach to this s 
> tuff, grab first ask questions later otherwise it becomes landfill.
>
> Apologies if this is not appropriate for this list but your landlord was a 
> flog.
>
>
> Kevin Parker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
> Sent: Monday, 17 October 2022 19:55
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Cc: Sellam Abraham 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012
>
> Long story very short:
>
> Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored and 
> wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and was able 
> to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for good.  
> Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter it to the 
> wind.
>
> Sellam
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago
> > in non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> >  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> > "General
> > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
> > Tom Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage
> > Computer Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great
> > VintageComputer Heist of 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and 
> > where andwhy?
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Kevin Parker via cctalk]

I remember that Sellam and I remember visiting your facility on a trip my wife 
and I did to the US. It was very impressive collection and that’s an 
understatement. 

It’s a shame all that was lost ☹ It served to reinforce my approach to this s 
tuff, grab first ask questions later otherwise it becomes landfill.

Apologies if this is not appropriate for this list but your landlord was a flog.


Kevin Parker

-Original Message-
From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
Sent: Monday, 17 October 2022 19:55
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Sellam Abraham 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

Long story very short:

Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored and 
wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and was able to 
pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for good.  Then 
sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter it to the wind.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
wrote:

> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago 
> in non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk < 
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: 
> "General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc: 
> Tom Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage 
> Computer Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great 
> VintageComputer Heist of 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where 
> andwhy?

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Shoulda paid the rent.

A sad tale indeed.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 4:11 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The good news is that most of my best stuff was either already with me or I
> was able to get out, including my two Lisa 1's, my (straight) PDP-8, and
> several other precious items.  I long since sold off most of this to pay to
> live, since at the same time they destroyed my collection they destroyed my
> business (not to mention my life's work).
>
> I've gone on to build a new collection out of the old, one that is--like my
> original collection--unrivaled anywhere on the planet.  But this time I've
> erected castle walls around it, surrounded by a moat filled with
> alligators.
>
> Sellam
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:58 AM Ryan de Laplante via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before being
> > locked out again.  I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m guessing
> > you prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when recovering
> the
> > 20%, such as your Lisa 1?
> >
> > I kept my collection in storage lockers for years.  I kept moving to
> > larger and larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because my
> > collecting got out of control.  Prices kept going up every year and it
> was
> > a nightmare having to pay what I did just to store the collection.
> >  Fortunately I was able to move to a house and relocated the collection
> to
> > the basement.  Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the
> > remaining lower priority pieces to the first person who could clear the
> > locker over a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it didn’t
> go
> > to a recycler.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 17, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Long story very short:
> > >
> > > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was
> stored
> > > and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and
> > was
> > > able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again
> > for
> > > good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to
> scatter
> > > it to the wind.
> > >
> > > Sellam
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago
> in
> > >> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> > >>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> > "General
> > >> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
> > Tom
> > >> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
> > >> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer
> Heist
> > of
> > >> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
> >
> >
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 10/17/22 2:14 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

There were many benefactors from my loss, many innocent, some not.


Understood.


Those who benefitted from ill-begotten gains will pay for it in other ways,
if they haven't already.  Such is the natural law.


Agreed.

For the record, my comment was directed at Ryan's sale of lower value to 
him equipment, not your loss.  --  I am sorry for your loss Sellam.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

There were many benefactors from my loss, many innocent, some not.

Those who benefitted from ill-begotten gains will pay for it in other ways,
if they haven't already.  Such is the natural law.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 10/17/22 12:52 PM, Ryan de Laplante via cctalk wrote:
> > Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the remaining lower
> > priority pieces to the first person who could clear the locker over
> > a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it didn’t go
> > to a recycler.
>
> Hopefully you boot strapped someone into the collecting hobby.  }:-)
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

The good news is that most of my best stuff was either already with me or I
was able to get out, including my two Lisa 1's, my (straight) PDP-8, and
several other precious items.  I long since sold off most of this to pay to
live, since at the same time they destroyed my collection they destroyed my
business (not to mention my life's work).

I've gone on to build a new collection out of the old, one that is--like my
original collection--unrivaled anywhere on the planet.  But this time I've
erected castle walls around it, surrounded by a moat filled with alligators.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:58 AM Ryan de Laplante via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before being
> locked out again.  I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m guessing
> you prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when recovering the
> 20%, such as your Lisa 1?
>
> I kept my collection in storage lockers for years.  I kept moving to
> larger and larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because my
> collecting got out of control.  Prices kept going up every year and it was
> a nightmare having to pay what I did just to store the collection.
>  Fortunately I was able to move to a house and relocated the collection to
> the basement.  Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the
> remaining lower priority pieces to the first person who could clear the
> locker over a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it didn’t go
> to a recycler.
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 17, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Long story very short:
> >
> > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
> > and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and
> was
> > able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again
> for
> > good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
> > it to the wind.
> >
> > Sellam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago in
> >> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> >>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> "General
> >> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
> Tom
> >> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
> >> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist
> of
> >> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
>
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 10/17/22 12:52 PM, Ryan de Laplante via cctalk wrote:
Not everything could come home with me, so I sold the remaining lower 
priority pieces to the first person who could clear the locker over 
a weekend.  I didn’t get much for it, but at least it didn’t go 
to a recycler.


Hopefully you boot strapped someone into the collecting hobby.  }:-)



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Ryan de Laplante via cctalk]

I didn’t know you were able to recover 20% of the collection before being 
locked out again.  I know losing any of it is terrible, but I’m guessing you 
prioritized the very best pieces of the collection when recovering the 20%, 
such as your Lisa 1?

I kept my collection in storage lockers for years.  I kept moving to larger and 
larger lockers, then eventually two large lockers, because my collecting got 
out of control.  Prices kept going up every year and it was a nightmare having 
to pay what I did just to store the collection.   Fortunately I was able to 
move to a house and relocated the collection to the basement.  Not everything 
could come home with me, so I sold the remaining lower priority pieces to the 
first person who could clear the locker over a weekend.  I didn’t get much for 
it, but at least it didn’t go to a recycler. 




> On Oct 17, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Long story very short:
> 
> Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
> and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and was
> able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for
> good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
> it to the wind.
> 
> Sellam
> 
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago in
>> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
>>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: "General
>> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc: Tom
>> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
>> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist of
>> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

Never mind the civil suits, it sounds to me (from the facts you quoted) that 
criminal charges might have been warranted.

paul

> On Oct 17, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I did.  It stretched on for a couple years, as civil suits are wont to do.
> But because I didn't have the legal chops I have now, I did not prevail.
> 
> Hard lesson learned.  Trust no man.  Definitely trust no lawyer.
> 
> Sellam
> 
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:00 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> Did you take them to court again to get compensation for what must have
>> been a substantial loss? Very strange story. You must have been furious.
>> 
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022, 4:54 pm Sellam Abraham via cctalk, <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Long story very short:
>>> 
>>> Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
>>> and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and
>> was
>>> able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again
>> for
>>> good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
>>> it to the wind.
>>> 
>>> Sellam
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago
>> in
 non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
 cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
>> "General
 Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
>>> Tom
 Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
 Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist
>>> of
 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
>>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

I did.  It stretched on for a couple years, as civil suits are wont to do.
But because I didn't have the legal chops I have now, I did not prevail.

Hard lesson learned.  Trust no man.  Definitely trust no lawyer.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 2:00 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk 
wrote:

> Did you take them to court again to get compensation for what must have
> been a substantial loss? Very strange story. You must have been furious.
>
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022, 4:54 pm Sellam Abraham via cctalk, <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > Long story very short:
> >
> > Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
> > and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and
> was
> > able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again
> for
> > good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
> > it to the wind.
> >
> > Sellam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago
> in
> > > non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> > >  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To:
> "General
> > > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
> > Tom
> > > Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
> > > Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist
> > of
> > > 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
> >
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

Did you take them to court again to get compensation for what must have
been a substantial loss? Very strange story. You must have been furious.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2022, 4:54 pm Sellam Abraham via cctalk, <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Long story very short:
>
> Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
> and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and was
> able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for
> good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
> it to the wind.
>
> Sellam
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago in
> > non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
> >  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: "General
> > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc:
> Tom
> > Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
> > Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist
> of
> > 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?
>

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

Long story very short:

Landlords evicted me from their warehouse where my collection was stored
and wouldn't let me back in.  Had to go to court.  Regained access and was
able to pull out 20% of the collection before they locked me out again for
good.  Then sold the rest to computer recyclers, who proceeded to scatter
it to the wind.

Sellam

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:43 AM Ali via cctalk 
wrote:

> You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago in
> non Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
>  Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: "General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc: Tom
> Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer
> Heist of 2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist of
> 2012". What was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?

[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012

[Ali via cctalk]

You had to ask..I was there 3000 years ago (or about 10 years ago in non 
Tolkien meme terms) and it wasn't pretty
 Original message From: Tom Hunter via cctalk 
 Date: 10/17/22  1:31 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: "General 
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  Cc: Tom 
Hunter  Subject: [cctalk] Great Vintage Computer Heist of 
2012 Sellam Abraham referred to a "Great VintageComputer Heist of 2012". What 
was that about? Who stole what and where andwhy?