[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

OR, keep them all available, but include a mention and link to newest, or 
at least next, or precede each with a small visible meta-data block with 
date and links. 
If it's too cumbersome to edit every one when a new one is put up, having 
a mention/link to the next one would at least provide a linked list.


I was unaware that I was not looking at the current one.
(and was confused by your statements that Adkisson had recanted, which was 
definitely not present in the one that I was looking at.)
Feel free to use my error as an example in your campaign to improve the 
organization.




On Mon, 22 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:


That's one of the "features" of the CHM oral history archives, they keep
older versions on line on "scholarly" principles.
I've suggest they keep only the current version on line and include a change
log to no avail
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 11:32 PM
To: t.gard...@computer.org
Cc: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner wrote:

Fred:
Please quote the current version of the oral history, It says:
Porter: Jimmy said that you guys got together with the guys at Wang in
a dark bar one night and, after a discussion, you decided on the size
of what the smaller diskette should be and there was a cocktail napkin
on the bar which was 5 1/4" square  napkin .
That's Jimmy's story.
[Ed. note: Contacted in 2009, both Adkisson and Massaro stated that
there was never any such meeting in a bar with Dr. Wang]
5.25 and 3.5 Floppy Disk Oral History Panel (computerhistory.org)
<https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/05/102
657925
-05-01-acc.pdf>  at page 10
Will you now stop promulgating this fable?


Yes.  Knowing that BOTH deny it shows that it is an apocryphal tale.
I was, indeed, looking at an older version (2005) When I had only heard of
Massaro's refutation, I was wondering whether Adkisson agreed.  Now, it is
clear.
Thank you.

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

That's one of the "features" of the CHM oral history archives, they keep
older versions on line on "scholarly" principles.
I've suggest they keep only the current version on line and include a change
log to no avail
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 11:32 PM
To: t.gard...@computer.org
Cc: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner wrote:
> Fred:
> Please quote the current version of the oral history, It says:
> Porter: Jimmy said that you guys got together with the guys at Wang in 
> a dark bar one night and, after a discussion, you decided on the size 
> of what the smaller diskette should be and there was a cocktail napkin 
> on the bar which was 5 1/4" square  napkin . 
> That's Jimmy's story.
> [Ed. note: Contacted in 2009, both Adkisson and Massaro stated that 
> there was never any such meeting in a bar with Dr. Wang]
> 5.25 and 3.5 Floppy Disk Oral History Panel (computerhistory.org)
> <https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/05/102
> 657925
> -05-01-acc.pdf>  at page 10
> Will you now stop promulgating this fable?

Yes.  Knowing that BOTH deny it shows that it is an apocryphal tale.
I was, indeed, looking at an older version (2005) When I had only heard of
Massaro's refutation, I was wondering whether Adkisson agreed.  Now, it is
clear.
Thank you.

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 7:13 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Aug 21, 2022, at 8:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > I always thought it was interesting how 5 1/4 is 3U (rack units). I
> thought there might have been some relationship to that. But could have
> been just coincidence.
>
> For floppies, likely yes.  That fact did get used later on, in storage
> arrays where you can line up 14 or so disk drives, standing on edge, in a
> 3U 19 inch rack mounted system.
>

I thought the initial 5.25" Hard Disks had ISSUES[tm] operating on edge. I
remember the RD50 (5MB in all its glory) being touted as also operating on
edge for the desk-side cases for DEC Rainbows and Professionals (and later
MircoPDP-11s).

Warner

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Aug 22, 2022, at 11:17 AM, Warner Losh  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 7:13 AM Paul Koning via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Aug 21, 2022, at 8:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk  wrote:
> > 
> > I always thought it was interesting how 5 1/4 is 3U (rack units). I thought 
> > there might have been some relationship to that. But could have been just 
> > coincidence.
> 
> For floppies, likely yes.  That fact did get used later on, in storage arrays 
> where you can line up 14 or so disk drives, standing on edge, in a 3U 19 inch 
> rack mounted system.
> 
> I thought the initial 5.25" Hard Disks had ISSUES[tm] operating on edge. I 
> remember the RD50 (5MB in all its glory) being touted as also operating on 
> edge for the desk-side cases for DEC Rainbows and Professionals (and later 
> MircoPDP-11s).

Could be.  The examples I was thinking about are from 2001, using 1/2 height 
SATA drives: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EqualLogic#/media/File:EqualLogic_PS100E_PeerStorage_Array_(157832701).jpg

paul

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Aug 21, 2022, at 8:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I always thought it was interesting how 5 1/4 is 3U (rack units). I thought 
> there might have been some relationship to that. But could have been just 
> coincidence.

For floppies, likely yes.  That fact did get used later on, in storage arrays 
where you can line up 14 or so disk drives, standing on edge, in a 3U 19 inch 
rack mounted system.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner wrote:

Fred:
Please quote the current version of the oral history,
It says:
Porter: Jimmy said that you guys got together with the guys at Wang in a
dark bar one night and, after a
discussion, you decided on the size of what the smaller diskette should be
and there was a cocktail napkin
on the bar which was 5 1/4" square  napkin . That's
Jimmy's story.
[Ed. note: Contacted in 2009, both Adkisson and Massaro stated that there
was never any such meeting
in a bar with Dr. Wang]
5.25 and 3.5 Floppy Disk Oral History Panel (computerhistory.org)
  at page 10
Will you now stop promulgating this fable?


Yes.  Knowing that BOTH deny it shows that it is an apocryphal tale.
I was, indeed, looking at an older version (2005)
When I had only heard of Massaro's refutation, I was wondering whether 
Adkisson agreed.  Now, it is clear.

Thank you.

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

Fred:

Please quote the current version of the oral history,

It says:

 

Porter: Jimmy said that you guys got together with the guys at Wang in a
dark bar one night and, after a 

discussion, you decided on the size of what the smaller diskette should be
and there was a cocktail napkin 

on the bar which was 5 1/4" square  napkin . That's
Jimmy's story.

 

[Ed. note: Contacted in 2009, both Adkisson and Massaro stated that there
was never any such meeting 

in a bar with Dr. Wang]

 

5.25 and 3.5 Floppy Disk Oral History Panel (computerhistory.org)
<https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/05/102657925
-05-01-acc.pdf>  at page 10

 

Will you now stop promulgating this fable?

 

Tom

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 3:34 PM
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

 

BTW, I first heard the story in the late 1980s?  My recollection was that it
was in a sidebar in a magazine article.  I can't currently find that.

 

Massaro's denial of it

 
<http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Flo
ppy_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf>
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Flop
py_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf

was 2006?

 

 

The story was about the diskette size.

Massaro's story is about the size of the DRIVE, and making a cardboard
mockup in the backseat of a car.

 

Unless Adkisson comes forward, and reasserts the validity of the story, then
it is unlikely.

 

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[W2HX via cctalk]

I always thought it was interesting how 5 1/4 is 3U (rack units). I thought 
there might have been some relationship to that. But could have been just 
coincidence.


73 Eugene W2HX
Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/w2hx-channel/videos

-Original Message-
From: Tom Gardner via cctalk  
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 7:40 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' ; 
ci...@xenosoft.com
Cc: Tom Gardner 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a 
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

>-Original Message-
>From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com] 
>Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 12:31 PM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

 

>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:

> The only person who ever promulgated the "Dr. Wang bar napkin" story 

> was Jim Porter who was not in any way involved with the decision as to 

> the size of the 5½ drive or media size and only began telling his tale 

> many years after the decision.

> Both Massaro and Adkisson deny there was ever such a meeting in a bar 

> with Dr. Wang.





>In

>
<http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Flo
ppy_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf>
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Flop
py_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf

>Jim Porter attributes it to Jimmy Adkisson.

 

If you read further on you will find that Adkisson also has disclaimed the
Porter fable. 

 

FWIW, Porter apparently began promulgating the fable in 1998  at his speech
to 100th Anniversary Of Magnetic Recording, Santa Clara University, Santa
Clara, CA. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20071014221838/http://magneticdiskheritagecenter.
org/100th/Progress/Porter/jimporter.htm
<http://web.archive.org/web/20071014221838/http:/magneticdiskheritagecenter.
org/100th/Progress/Porter/jimporter.htm> . 

There is no earlier reference that I can find. 

 

I talked to the entire Shugart Associates team (including both Massaro and
Adkisson) involved in the decision to do the 5¼ and its design thereafter -
the Wang story is BS

 



 

 

>But, Massaro, who should know, refutes the story.  Although his version is
about a cardboard mockup of the DRIVE, done in the backseat of a car, NOT
the origin of the diskette size.

>Grumpy Ol' Fred <mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com>
ci...@xenosoft.com

 

Tom

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

Sorry, there was no “U” consideration in the FH 5¼-inch form factor
decision. It is 5.75 in × 3.25 in × 8 in; none of these have integer "U"
relationships.

 

SA engineering studied the various 8-track tape drives then available and
found no standard form factor so they picked a set of numbers that they
thought would work for most and for the Wang application in particular.  No
one mentioned “U” dimensions as a consideration.

 

I seem to recall most 8-track tape drives were mounted horizontally which
would make the “U” height 3.5-inches not 3.25 inches.

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 5:40 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: t.gard...@computer.org; Tom Gardner
Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

 

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022, W2HX wrote:

> I always thought it was interesting how 5 1/4 is 3U (rack units). I 

> thought there might have been some relationship to that. But could 

> have been just coincidence.

 

I think that it is related.

I think that the drive (not the diskette) was apparently intended to be
mountable where certain tape drives were mounted.

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

https://www.foryourparty.com/cocktail-napkins

--
Chris Elmquist

> On Aug 21, 2022, at 4:45 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Ali wrote:
>> You should just do it and add a teeny tiny disclaimer at the bottom 
>> regarding the veracity of the story. It would make for a great gag gift! Or 
>> if you want to get real fancy have a QR code that can be scanned on each 
>> napkin for a site with more detailed discussion of the events.
> 
> I used to know an elderly fellow who had a reasonably complete printshop at 
> his house.  He used to do embossed fancy invitations, envelopes, etc.
> But, he's dead.  So, I no longer already have a printer.
> 
> I don't even know whether personalized napkins are printed on existing 
> napkins, or printed as a folio and then folded.
> 
> There are some home methods, such as an oversized rubber stamp, etc.
> But, I think that it should be done professionally.
> Simplest artwork would be simply a small circle, a large oval, and a small 
> square at the edge.  But, a border around would be nice.
> 
> 
> I don't think that I will get around to doing it :-(
> 
> If somebody else wants to pick up the idea, I would appreciate it if you 
> would give me a good price to buy a dozen or so of them.
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022, W2HX wrote:
I always thought it was interesting how 5 1/4 is 3U (rack units). I 
thought there might have been some relationship to that. But could have 
been just coincidence.


I think that it is related.
I think that the drive (not the diskette) was apparently intended to be 
mountable where certain tape drives were mounted.

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com] 
>Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 12:31 PM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: [cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a
dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

 

>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:

> The only person who ever promulgated the "Dr. Wang bar napkin" story 

> was Jim Porter who was not in any way involved with the decision as to 

> the size of the 5½ drive or media size and only began telling his tale 

> many years after the decision.

> Both Massaro and Adkisson deny there was ever such a meeting in a bar 

> with Dr. Wang.





>In

>
<http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Flo
ppy_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf>
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Flop
py_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf

>Jim Porter attributes it to Jimmy Adkisson.

 

If you read further on you will find that Adkisson also has disclaimed the
Porter fable. 

 

FWIW, Porter apparently began promulgating the fable in 1998  at his speech
to 100th Anniversary Of Magnetic Recording, Santa Clara University, Santa
Clara, CA. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20071014221838/http://magneticdiskheritagecenter.
org/100th/Progress/Porter/jimporter.htm
<http://web.archive.org/web/20071014221838/http:/magneticdiskheritagecenter.
org/100th/Progress/Porter/jimporter.htm> . 

There is no earlier reference that I can find. 

 

I talked to the entire Shugart Associates team (including both Massaro and
Adkisson) involved in the decision to do the 5¼ and its design thereafter -
the Wang story is BS

 



 

 

>But, Massaro, who should know, refutes the story.  Although his version is
about a cardboard mockup of the DRIVE, done in the backseat of a car, NOT
the origin of the diskette size.

>Grumpy Ol' Fred <mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com>
ci...@xenosoft.com

 

Tom

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

BTW, I first heard the story in the late 1980s?  My recollection was that 
it was in a sidebar in a magazine article.  I can't currently find that.


Massaro's denial of it
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Floppy_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf
was 2006?


The story was about the diskette size.
Massaro's story is about the size of the DRIVE, and making a cardboard 
mockup in the backseat of a car.


Unless Adkisson comes forward, and reasserts the validity of the story, 
then it is unlikely.

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Ali wrote:
You should just do it and add a teeny tiny disclaimer at the bottom 
regarding the veracity of the story. It would make for a great gag gift! 
Or if you want to get real fancy have a QR code that can be scanned on 
each napkin for a site with more detailed discussion of the events.


I used to know an elderly fellow who had a reasonably complete printshop 
at his house.  He used to do embossed fancy invitations, envelopes, etc.

But, he's dead.  So, I no longer already have a printer.

I don't even know whether personalized napkins are printed on existing 
napkins, or printed as a folio and then folded.


There are some home methods, such as an oversized rubber stamp, etc.
But, I think that it should be done professionally.
Simplest artwork would be simply a small circle, a large oval, and a small 
square at the edge.  But, a border around would be nice.



I don't think that I will get around to doing it :-(

If somebody else wants to pick up the idea, I would appreciate it if you 
would give me a good price to buy a dozen or so of them.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Ali via cctalk]

RESENT FOR LEGIBILITY

>I seriously considered getting some custom 
>napkins printed up (bars 
>sometimes have personalized napkins; 5.25" is 
>available, although these 
>days, bars usually use smaller, just to keep from 
>making rings on the 
>tables), with just the outline of a 5.25" disk jacket 
>printed on them 
>(perimeter, write enable notch, index hole, and 
>oval access slot), and a 
>version of the story, IFF it could be confirmed on 
>the back

Fred,

You should just do it and add a teeny tiny disclaimer at the bottom regarding 
the veracity of the story. It would make for a great gag gift! Or if you want 
to get real fancy have a QR code that can be scanned on each napkin for a site 
with more detailed discussion of the events.
 
-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Ali via cctalk]

>I seriously considered getting some custom >napkins printed up (bars 
>>sometimes have personalized napkins; 5.25" is >available, although these 
>>days, bars usually use smaller, just to keep from >making rings on the 
>>tables), with just the outline of a 5.25" disk jacket >printed on them 
>>(perimeter, write enable notch, index hole, and >oval access slot), and a 
>>version of the story, IFF it could be confirmed on >the backFred,You should 
>just do it and add a teeny tiny disclaimer at the bottom regarding the 
>veracity of the story. It. Would make for a great gag gift! Or if you want to 
>get real fancy have a qr code that can be scanned on each napkin for a site 
>with more detailed discussion of the events.-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote:

The only person who ever promulgated the "Dr. Wang bar napkin" story was Jim
Porter who was not in any way involved with the decision as to the size of
the 5½ drive or media size and only began telling his tale many years after
the decision.
Both Massaro and Adkisson deny there was ever such a meeting in a bar with
Dr. Wang.
Some doubt Dr. Wang was ever in a bar with a vendor  :-)
My research suggests customers of Adkisson, e.g. Lanier, and not Wang Labs,
asked for a smaller and less expensive drive, with media about the size of a
cocktail napkin.
Adkisson took this request to SA management.  Wang was then their big
customer for 8-inch drives.
Massaro and Adkisson then did discuss this with Dr.  Wang who did express a
need for such a drive as a replacement; faster, more reliable and less
expensive than the 8-track tape drive used by Wang Labs. It was also
presented to Mohawk Data who was also interested.
Shugart engineering then sized the drive based upon a survey of the size of
8 track tape drives and then sized the media as what is the largest that
could reasonably fit within the drive envelope. The fact that the media size
is about the size of some cocktail napkins is a coincidence.
BTW as far as I can tell there is no standard size for cocktail napkins
circa 1976 and the one sample I found from that era is smaller than the
5¼-inch medium envelope.
The corruption of history is indeed tragic both here and at the Smithsonian
- BTW, I did send their webmaster a request for correction


In
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/5.25_3.5_Floppy_Drive/5.25_and_3.5_Floppy_Panel.oral_history.2005.102657925.pdf
Jim Porter attributes it to Jimmy Adkisson.

I seriously considered getting some custom napkins printed up (bars 
sometimes have personalized napkins; 5.25" is available, although these 
days, bars usually use smaller, just to keep from making rings on the 
tables), with just the outline of a 5.25" disk jacket printed on them 
(perimeter, write enable notch, index hole, and oval access slot), and a 
version of the story, IFF it could be confirmed on the back.  If such were 
to be made up, the gifte shoppe at CHM could probably sell alot of them.


A relatively common Comdex freebie was 3.5" disk imaged rubbery coasters,


But, Massaro, who should know, refutes the story.  Although his version is 
about a cardboard mockup of the DRIVE, done in the backseat of a car, NOT 
the origin of the diskette size.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Wang bar napkin story [WAS:RE: Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet]

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

The only person who ever promulgated the "Dr. Wang bar napkin" story was Jim
Porter who was not in any way involved with the decision as to the size of
the 5½ drive or media size and only began telling his tale many years after
the decision.

 

Both Massaro and Adkisson deny there was ever such a meeting in a bar with
Dr. Wang.  

 

Some doubt Dr. Wang was ever in a bar with a vendor  :-)

 

My research suggests customers of Adkisson, e.g. Lanier, and not Wang Labs,
asked for a smaller and less expensive drive, with media about the size of a
cocktail napkin.

Adkisson took this request to SA management.  Wang was then their big
customer for 8-inch drives.

Massaro and Adkisson then did discuss this with Dr.  Wang who did express a
need for such a drive as a replacement; faster, more reliable and less
expensive than the 8-track tape drive used by Wang Labs. It was also
presented to Mohawk Data who was also interested.

 

Shugart engineering then sized the drive based upon a survey of the size of
8 track tape drives and then sized the media as what is the largest that
could reasonably fit within the drive envelope. The fact that the media size
is about the size of some cocktail napkins is a coincidence.

 

BTW as far as I can tell there is no standard size for cocktail napkins
circa 1976 and the one sample I found from that era is smaller than the
5¼-inch medium envelope.

 

The corruption of history is indeed tragic both here and at the Smithsonian
- BTW, I did send their webmaster a request for correction

 

Tom

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Fred Cisin [mailto:ci...@xenosoft.com] 
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2022 3:37 PM
To: dwight via cctalk
Subject: [cctalk] Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on
internet

 

Adkisson and Masaro now deny the whole "bar napkin disk" story; In agreement
that 8" was larger than desired, they asked Dr. Au Wang "What size should it
be?"

Wang picked up the bar napkin (the meeting was not in a conference room),
and said, "This size".

They took the napkin back to the lab and measured it.

 

and the Smithsonian says that SA400 was 3.25".

 

Yes, the loss of our history is just tragic.

 

 

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022, dwight via cctalk wrote:

 

> Maybe it is on a size reduction.

> Dwight

> 

> 

> From: geneb via cctalk < 
cctalk@classiccmp.org>

> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2022 7:47 AM

> To: Liam Proven via cctalk < 
cctalk@classiccmp.org>

> Cc: geneb <  ge...@deltasoft.com>

> Subject: [cctalk] Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on 

> internet

> 

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

> 

>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 23:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk 

>> <  cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>>> 

>>> 1) because they need to keep reinforcing until the very last SA400 

>>> is buried.

>>> 

> 

> Fred, Don't forget the SA390 in every Disk II. ;)

> 

>> I had to look up SA400. I'm too young.

>> 

>> The Smithsonian has one. They say it's a 3¼ inch drive.

>> 

>>  
https://www.si.edu/object/microcomputer-peripheral-shugart-sa400-disk

>> -drive:nmah_334325

>> 

> 

> Now THAT is just tragic.

> 

> g.

> 

> --

> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007

>   http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.

>   http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go
Collimated or Go Home.

> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

> 

> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value 

> database for the masses, not the classes.

>   http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it
_today_!