Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
> hyperlinked in; I'll do the RFCs later. Also, it's missing a few TELNET > entries, I'll add them later too. All done. Also, I remenbered that Dave Walden made the three main ARPNET papers availalble online recently, so I added links to them on the 'ARPANET Technical Information' page. I highly recommend those to anyone who wants to know more about the details of the ARPANET's operation; they're really good. Noel
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
On 7/3/20 7:19 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > I will create a page which lists the contents of the APH .. I'll email > the list with the URL once I get it up. OK, it's at: http://mercury.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/arpaprot.html I'll link to it from all the usual places (e.g. the 'ARPANET Technical Information' page) later. The main protocol documents are hyperlinked in; I'll do the RFCs later. Also, it's missing a few TELNET entries, I'll add them later too. > it's bound and 1/5" thick Old typo - 1-1/2". Noel It looks great. Thanks, Noel! -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
> I will create a page which lists the contents of the APH .. I'll email > the list with the URL once I get it up. OK, it's at: http://mercury.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/arpaprot.html I'll link to it from all the usual places (e.g. the 'ARPANET Technical Information' page) later. The main protocol documents are hyperlinked in; I'll do the RFCs later. Also, it's missing a few TELNET entries, I'll add them later too. > it's bound and 1/5" thick Old typo - 1-1/2". Noel
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
On 7/3/20 9:21 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: It contains a whole raft of individual documents, most of them RFCs, and some "NIC"s - similar documents available through the NIC, but generally only in hardcopy form (like the earliest RFCs). Many of the most important non-RFC ones are available here: http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/arpanet.html at the bottom of the page. Your writeup and the links are quite helpful - like most stuff like this, I lack the historical context and appreciate it when folks fill in the gaps like this. I will create a page which lists the contents of the APH, since I gather it doesn't seem to be online. I'll email the list with the URL once I get it up. Great idea. If I'd come across a TOC, I would have had a better idea of how far to pursue the primary material. In this case, it was worth the effort, regardless. A bit of a ranting reflection: I love the way these early works were written. To my mind, sometime around the mid 1980's folks started baking in so many more assumptions than the early writers that their work needlessly confuses newbies. Thankfully, we seem to be cycling back around to better documentation in some sectors of the tech world (FreeBSD manpages are one example). It's like back in the day, everybody was new enough to the ideas that they had to be carefully explained, terms had to be defined (agreed upon), clear, and detailed examples had to be provided for pretty much any task that was needed. Then once folks had a community going, they jargonified it mercilessly, started the whole RTFM clique and littered the literature with their private language. This continued for a number of decades. In the early 1990's The baby BSD's, Linux, and Minix were born and while at first it was all geeks, eventually, lots of people with all kinds of backgrounds started delving into them. Here we are in 2020 and the number of folks playing around with network related material (and the OSes that make this playground pleasurable) is at an all time high. This generation wouldn't know a bit from a bridle and so they need the clear explanations, agreed upon language, and detailed examples once again. Unfortunately, the accretion of relevant material over the decades makes even fairly well written works gargantuan and by their very size, difficult to grasp easily. So, for this reason primarily I like the classics :). The good news is I'm starting to see a return to the heart of the style in some corners. Let's hope it continues. While the struggles of figuring things out the hard way has some degree of merit, a well written document that is relevant to the task at hand is like having a mentor at hand. I'll never forget installing Unix v6 on a SIMH emulated PDP 11, way back in 2015, with only my printed copy of "SETTING UP UNIX − Sixth Edition" by Dennis Ritchie at hand. After I learned what a disk pack was (unbelievable) and how it related to the devices provided by SIMH (thanks Noel and other SIMH/TUHS folks), I was able to follow his instructions exactly and boot up a then forty-some year old OS. In the process, I gained a great deal of respect for his ability to virtually apprentice someone in the black art of research unix even decades later. Back in the present: Many thanks Noel and those of y'all who are similarly minded, for your efforts to sustain correct history and its attendant explicit and tacit knowledge. Keep up the good work! Regards, Will
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
> From: Steve Shumaker > NTRL has 3 published versions listed with two available as pdf downloads; > https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/ Good find! The ADA052594 one is the one I have. The other one has older versions of some things. So I won't need to scan anything; but I will put up a machine-readable TOC. Noel
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
> From: Will Senn > I know some of y'all were there (Noel) I'm you're huckleberry (sort of; I didn't work on building the ARPANet, but I built a number of boxes which were attached to it, later). > I'm looking for the ARPANET Protocol Handbook I have a hardcopy; the January 1978 version. (No, I can't scan it; it's bound and 1/5" thick, and I don't wish to dwestroy it to scan it - but see below). > by Feinler, E. and Postel, J. They were just the editors; most of the content was written by others. It contains a whole raft of individual documents, most of them RFCs, and some "NIC"s - similar documents available through the NIC, but generally only in hardcopy form (like the earliest RFCs). Many of the most important non-RFC ones are available here: http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/arpanet.html at the bottom of the page. I will create a page which lists the contents of the APH, since I gather it doesn't seem to be online. I'll email the list with the URL once I get it up. Any that are important, and not otherwise available online, I can scan; I've done one (NIC 29588) in the past. > If it's been superceded and the successor is available There were _successor_ documents, like the IPH, but they covered entirely different material. There likely was more then one version of the APH, as inididual documents in it were added/modified; I have no confirmatorion on that, though. Noel
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
On Jul 2, 2020, at 19:49, Will Senn via cctalk wrote: > > On 7/2/20 9:38 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote: >> On Jul 2, 2020, at 18:55, s shumaker via cctalk wrote: >>> NTRL has 3 published versions listed with two available as pdf downloads; >>> >>> go here and search on the author name >>> >>> https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/ >>> >>> Steve >> Searching on author Feinler confirmed my recollection of a successor >> document, the “DDN Protocol Handbook” in three volumes. (Volume 1 available >> as PDF from this source.) These collect RFCs and other documents, often >> with MIL-STD numbers. Not entirely replaceable from the IETF’s RFC filepile. >> >> -Frank McConnell >> > Frank, > > Great find. Thanks! The one you are looking for describes the NCP-era ARPANET. The “DDN Protocol Handbook” describes the IP/TCP-era DDN. -Frank McConnell
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
On 7/2/20 9:38 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote: On Jul 2, 2020, at 18:55, s shumaker via cctalk wrote: NTRL has 3 published versions listed with two available as pdf downloads; go here and search on the author name https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/ Steve Searching on author Feinler confirmed my recollection of a successor document, the “DDN Protocol Handbook” in three volumes. (Volume 1 available as PDF from this source.) These collect RFCs and other documents, often with MIL-STD numbers. Not entirely replaceable from the IETF’s RFC filepile. -Frank McConnell Frank, Great find. Thanks! Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
Steve, That did the trick! Thanks. Sometimes, I loath standard search engines. I didn't even know about NTRL - a treasure trove, indeed. Thanks, Will On 7/2/20 8:55 PM, s shumaker via cctalk wrote: NTRL has 3 published versions listed with two available as pdf downloads; go here and search on the author name https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/ Steve On 7/2/2020 4:57 PM, Will Senn via cctalk wrote: Hi, If this is off-topic, my apologies, but I know some of y'all were there (Noel), so I'm hoping it's close enough to on-topic to garner a successful response. I'm looking for the ARPANET Protocol Handbook by Feinler, E. and Postel, J., published by SRI back in the day (revised edition 1978) in an online format (pdf preferably, but anything readable is fine. I came across the reference in RFC 790 - Assigned Numbers. If it's been superceded and the successor is available, that would probably work, too. Although, I prefer the earlier works for concision. Regards, Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
On Jul 2, 2020, at 18:55, s shumaker via cctalk wrote: > NTRL has 3 published versions listed with two available as pdf downloads; > > go here and search on the author name > > https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/ > > Steve Searching on author Feinler confirmed my recollection of a successor document, the “DDN Protocol Handbook” in three volumes. (Volume 1 available as PDF from this source.) These collect RFCs and other documents, often with MIL-STD numbers. Not entirely replaceable from the IETF’s RFC filepile. -Frank McConnell
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
NTRL has 3 published versions listed with two available as pdf downloads; go here and search on the author name https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/ Steve On 7/2/2020 4:57 PM, Will Senn via cctalk wrote: Hi, If this is off-topic, my apologies, but I know some of y'all were there (Noel), so I'm hoping it's close enough to on-topic to garner a successful response. I'm looking for the ARPANET Protocol Handbook by Feinler, E. and Postel, J., published by SRI back in the day (revised edition 1978) in an online format (pdf preferably, but anything readable is fine. I came across the reference in RFC 790 - Assigned Numbers. If it's been superceded and the successor is available, that would probably work, too. Although, I prefer the earlier works for concision. Regards, Will
Re: Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
DTIC has it as a citation with accession number ADA003890: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA003890 but doesn't have it online as a digital document steve On 7/2/2020 4:57 PM, Will Senn via cctalk wrote: Hi, If this is off-topic, my apologies, but I know some of y'all were there (Noel), so I'm hoping it's close enough to on-topic to garner a successful response. I'm looking for the ARPANET Protocol Handbook by Feinler, E. and Postel, J., published by SRI back in the day (revised edition 1978) in an online format (pdf preferably, but anything readable is fine. I came across the reference in RFC 790 - Assigned Numbers. If it's been superceded and the successor is available, that would probably work, too. Although, I prefer the earlier works for concision. Regards, Will
Location of ARPANET Protocol Handbook or its successor, online
Hi, If this is off-topic, my apologies, but I know some of y'all were there (Noel), so I'm hoping it's close enough to on-topic to garner a successful response. I'm looking for the ARPANET Protocol Handbook by Feinler, E. and Postel, J., published by SRI back in the day (revised edition 1978) in an online format (pdf preferably, but anything readable is fine. I came across the reference in RFC 790 - Assigned Numbers. If it's been superceded and the successor is available, that would probably work, too. Although, I prefer the earlier works for concision. Regards, Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
