[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

I can't add attachments here. I emailed them to your direct email address.

Bob

On 11/17/2023 3:11 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

Hi Bob

    The attachment seems to be missing.

Rod

Also I hae some more boards available

M7856     X 2
M863     X 2
M837    X 2
M8650
M8320
M880 + H241 (MR8 EC)
M849
M3310


On 16/11/2023 20:53, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels?

I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care 
what model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs 
to be right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important 
either I have orange, green, and blue switch boards.


Thanks,

Bob




--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Try printing them in PETG: I've printed several of them for my 8/L and 
they equal the strength of factory switches. Even the little pins are 
more than strong enough.


PETG does require a higher printing temperature (220c-230c) but is well 
worth it and a massive improvement over PLA.


Chris

On 11/17/2023 11:26 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
I have tired to print the paddle handles both SLA and FDM and none match 
the quality and strength of injected molded paddles.


Unless you print an entire set (light and dark colors) it is nearly 
impossible to match the colors also.  Even if you were to find the 
perfect filament or resin color, the variability between batches makes 
accurate reproduction nearly impossible.




On 11/17/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
I had some toggles printed for me professionally, but they are 
inferior to

the originals and the colours don't match.

If anyone has spare DEC LAB-8/e switches please let me know.

Thanks
Tom

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:14 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

Hi Bob,
I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned
"green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green
switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to
have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual
switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please 
let me

know if you can help.


Have you ever considered making your own?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853


bill

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I have tired to print the paddle handles both SLA and FDM and none match 
the quality and strength of injected molded paddles.


Unless you print an entire set (light and dark colors) it is nearly 
impossible to match the colors also.  Even if you were to find the 
perfect filament or resin color, the variability between batches makes 
accurate reproduction nearly impossible.




On 11/17/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

I had some toggles printed for me professionally, but they are inferior to
the originals and the colours don't match.

If anyone has spare DEC LAB-8/e switches please let me know.

Thanks
Tom

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:14 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

Hi Bob,
I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned
"green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green
switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to
have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual
switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me
know if you can help.


Have you ever considered making your own?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853


bill

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

Hi Bob

    The attachment seems to be missing.

Rod

Also I hae some more boards available

M7856     X 2
M863     X 2
M837    X 2
M8650
M8320
M880 + H241 (MR8 EC)
M849
M3310


On 16/11/2023 20:53, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels?

I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care 
what model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs 
to be right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important 
either I have orange, green, and blue switch boards.


Thanks,

Bob

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 11/16/2023 12:53 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels?

I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care 
what model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs 
to be right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important 
either I have orange, green, and blue switch boards.


Thanks,

Bob



Whoops, this should have been a private message to Rod. Too quick with 
the mouse...


What I'm looking for is the plastic panel for the bezel. I have the 
switch PCB with switches (at least most of them).


I have played with 3D printing switches. They work, but colors are way 
off. Someday I'm going to play with an SLA printer. There are dye sets 
(such as the Monocure CMYK) set) that should allow pretty close matching 
to the original colors. The switches will also come out smoother.



Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

I had some toggles printed for me professionally, but they are inferior to
the originals and the colours don't match.

If anyone has spare DEC LAB-8/e switches please let me know.

Thanks
Tom

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:14 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
> > Hi Bob,
> > I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned
> > "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green
> > switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to
> > have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual
> > switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me
> > know if you can help.
> >
>
> Have you ever considered making your own?
>
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853
>
>
> bill
>

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

Hi Bob,
I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned
"green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green
switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to
have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual
switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me
know if you can help.



Have you ever considered making your own?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853


bill

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

Hi Bob,
I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned
"green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green
switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to
have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual
switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me
know if you can help.

Tanks and best regards
Tom Hunter


On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 2:18 PM Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels?
>
> I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care what
> model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs to be
> right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important either I
> have orange, green, and blue switch boards.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Vintage computers and electronics
> www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
> www.decmuseum.org
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Johannes Thelen via cctalk]

I have used Access Port on Win. Lot easier than TeraTerm and also supports 110 
Baud.

http://www.sudt.com/en/index.html


[http://www.sudt.com/images/sn_en_230x160.gif1zB]

SUDT.com
SUDT SerialNull 1.7: SerialNull is a professional Serial Port Simulator, which 
purpose is to emulate RS232 serial ports connected via virtual null-modem cable 
using SerialNull.. Virtual Serial Ports are absolutely the same copies of real 
ones; Real serial ports are not occupied
www.sudt.com




- Johannes Thelen
Finland

Before microcomputers blog (Finnish) http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/



From: cctalk  on behalf of Rod G8DGR via cctalk 

Sent: Friday, December 7, 2018 11:59 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: PDP-8/e


Hi All
   Seasons Greetings..

My PDP-8/e was long due for a major overhaul.
1. So everything out
2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus
3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
5. Power off
6. Install minimal System – Front Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core 
and Bus term.
7. Yup all looks in right order
8. Power on
9. Toggle in standard AC count up program
10. Clear + Cont
11. And they are racing at Rockingham!!
12. Yup counts up just like it should.
13. Let it run for a while.
14. All stop.
15. PSU off
16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud only)
17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its alive.
18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed back.

OK now I need a little help.
Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader 
on an ASR33?
I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
forgotten
My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.

Rod Smallwood



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 09:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:

On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port 
(xon/xoff or CTS pin) the serial port driver should do 
this, too, so cat would work.


A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't 
support XON/XOFF, though.


I remember loading paper tapes into a PDP-8, and the reader 
would stutter, so I think there was some sort of signal from 
the serial interface board to control the reader.  It would 
not be done with xon/xoff or CTS, as these were NOT RS-232 
interfaces, but current loop.  But, at least some people are 
doing this with software-emulated PDP-8s, so that was sort 
of what I was thinking of.


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 1:55 AM Rod G8DGR 
wrote:

> Nice try Josh - close – you  have to change the crystal first and you
> can’t get them.
>

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ABRACON/AB-196608MHZ-B2?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukHu%252bjC5l7YUoOOqNWuembrOT4XjNGTzc%3d


>
>
> Rod Smallwood - Digital Equipment Corporation 1975 – 1985
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Josh Dersch via cctalk 
> *Sent: *08 December 2018 06:36
> *To: *General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> *Subject: *Re: PDP-8/e
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It can only do 110 baud !!
>
> >
>
>
>
> Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
>
> installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
>
> higher baud rates.
>
>
>
> - Josh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> >
>
> > From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
>
> > Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
>
> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
>
> > Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> >
>
> > On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>
> > > On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
>
> > >> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
>
> > >>
>
> > > Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup,
>
> > > ought to be reported to the developers.
>
> >
>
> > But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to
>
> > something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that
>
> > requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical
>
> > for Rod.
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Pete
>
> > Pete Turnbull
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Jay Jaeger

> That code would not run in Windows of course, but it wouldn't be all
> that difficult for someone with a C programming background to move it
> to Windows under gnucc, or even Microsoft C++ or C#.

I highly recommend CygWin (which comes with 'gnucc) for doing C stuff under
Windoze:

  https://www.cygwin.com/

Most Unix/Linux code just compiles and runs under it; modulo stuff that uses
things that are so Unix/Linux specific that there's no Windows equivalent,
but that's not much - fork() is even there. If you already know Unix/Linux,
it makes for a very low-learning-curve transition.

Noel

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

I did that sort of thing for my PDP-8/L, where the reader run drove the
RS-232 "CTS" control signal and wrote a "C" program to do simple TTY
emulation in DeSmet C back in the day.

That code would not run in Windows of course, but it wouldn't be all
that difficult for someone with a C programming background to move it to
Windows under gnucc, or even Microsoft C++ or C#.

On 12/8/2018 1:10 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> I’m sure that would work  but I only have an 8650  110 baud only card
> Rod
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 110 baud 
> 
> From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:41
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
> 
> On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
>> On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
>>>> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or 
>>> CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.
>>
>> A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support 
>> XON/XOFF, though.
>>
> The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called 
> reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
> You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the 
> function. Here's what I did:
> 
> Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.
> 
>   Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware 
> flow control.
> 
> 1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input 
> that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.
> 
> 2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we 
> are going to use an inverter.
> 
> 3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19, 
> the UART.
>      This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that 
> it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
>      Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just 
> moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.
> 
> 4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is 
> what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.
> 
> 5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is 
> the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.
> 
> Bob
> 

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 08/12/2018 09:55, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Nice try Josh - close – you  have to change the crystal first and you can’t get 
them.


Both Farnell and Mouser UK have suitable crystals.  They don't have to 
be the same physical size.  I've changed several.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 12/8/18 1:55 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Nice try Josh - close – you  have to change the crystal first and you can’t get 
them.


Dead bug a programmable epson ttl oscillator module, available from digikey

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Nice try Josh - close – you  have to change the crystal first and you can’t get 
them.

Rod Smallwood - Digital Equipment Corporation 1975 – 1985


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Josh Dersch via cctalk
Sent: 08 December 2018 06:36
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

> It can only do 110 baud !!
>

Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
higher baud rates.

- Josh



>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> > On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
> >>
> > Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup,
> > ought to be reported to the developers.
>
> But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to
> something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that
> requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical
> for Rod.
>
> --
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull
>
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:10 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

> I’m sure that would work  but I only have an 8650  110 baud only card
> Rod
>

The M8650 does a wide variety of baud rates.   See here:
https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/hard8e/kl8e.html

- Josh



>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 110 baud
>
> From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:41
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
> > On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> >> On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
> >>> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or
> >> CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.
> >
> > A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support
> > XON/XOFF, though.
> >
> The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called
> reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
> You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the
> function. Here's what I did:
>
> Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.
>
>   Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware
> flow control.
>
> 1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input
> that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.
>
> 2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we
> are going to use an inverter.
>
> 3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19,
> the UART.
>  This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that
> it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
>  Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just
> moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.
>
> 4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is
> what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.
>
> 5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is
> the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Vintage computers and electronics
> www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
> www.decmuseum.org
>
>
>

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

I’m sure that would work  but I only have an 8650  110 baud only card
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 110 baud 

From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
Sent: 08 December 2018 03:41
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
> On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>> On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
>>> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>>>
>>>
>> Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or 
>> CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.
>
> A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support 
> XON/XOFF, though.
>
The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called 
reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the 
function. Here's what I did:

Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.

  Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware 
flow control.

1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input 
that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.

2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we 
are going to use an inverter.

3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19, 
the UART.
     This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that 
it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
     Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just 
moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.

4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is 
what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.

5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is 
the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.

Bob

-- 
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8/e

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 12:36 AM Josh Dersch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > It can only do 110 baud !!
> >
>
> Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
> installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
> higher baud rates.
>

Maybe an M865? I don't remember if those have jumpers or not. I seem to
recall it being current loop only, though.

Kyle

Re: PDP-8/e

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

> It can only do 110 baud !!
>

Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
higher baud rates.

- Josh



>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> > On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
> >>
> > Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup,
> > ought to be reported to the developers.
>
> But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to
> something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that
> requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical
> for Rod.
>
> --
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull
>
>

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

It can only do 110 baud !!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
>> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
>>
> Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup, 
> ought to be reported to the developers.

But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to 
something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that 
requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical 
for Rod.

-- 
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:

On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or 
CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.


A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support 
XON/XOFF, though.


The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called 
reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the 
function. Here's what I did:


Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.

 Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware 
flow control.


1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input 
that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.


2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we 
are going to use an inverter.


3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19, 
the UART.
    This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that 
it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
    Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just 
moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.


4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is 
what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.


5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is 
the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?

Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup, 
ought to be reported to the developers.


But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to 
something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that 
requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical 
for Rod.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or CTS 
pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.


A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support XON/XOFF, 
though.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 11:46 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?

Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  
major screwup, ought to be reported to the developers.


Jon

stty can set the speed to 110 with no trouble, so I don't 
see why it wouldn't be a trivial change to minicom to add 
the 110 speed to the list.  The source should be easily 
downloaded and patched for this.


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e/f/m Front Panel Knob Wanted (also general information)

[Rick Murphy via cctalk]

On 12/7/2018 7:20 PM, Thomas Moss via cctalk wrote:

Hi All,

I have a PDP-8/e that's missing the knob on the front panel.
Does anyone have a spare for sale, or know of a compatible part?


Do you mean the knob that selects which data to display on the panel lights?

Got one,  bit dinged up but usable. It's a simple setscrew-attached knob.

    -Rick

Re: PDP-8/e

[Rob Doyle via cctalk]

Teraterm on Windows definitely goes to 110 baud. I use it all the time...

Rob.

On 12/7/2018 10:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: PDP-8/e

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

tip is the standard BSD program for calling other unix systems. It's a fine
terminal program. 'tip -110 com1' is all you'd need to do in this case :).

Warner

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:39 AM Rod G8DGR 
wrote:

> Er whats tip?
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Warner Losh via cctalk 
> *Sent: *07 December 2018 17:36
> *To: *systems_glitch ; General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> *Subject: *Re: PDP-8/e
>
>
>
> These days I just use tip.
>
>
>
> Warner
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 10:25 AM systems_glitch via cctalk <
>
> cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:
>
>
>
> > Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
>
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
>
> > >
>
> > > TTFN - Guy
>
> > >
>
> > > > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
>
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > >> OK now I need a little help.
>
> > > >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
>
> > > the reader on an ASR33?
>
> > > >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I
>
> > have
>
> > > long forgotten
>
> > > >
>
> > > > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several
> other
>
> > > utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
>
> > > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
>
> > > > and on mine:
>
> > > > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --
>
> > > > Pete
>
> > > > Pete Turnbull
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?

Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major 
screwup, ought to be reported to the developers.


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port 
(xon/xoff or CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, 
too, so cat would work.


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 17:22, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.

Thanks,
Jonathan


That's just what I was going to say :-)  And also provided you remember 
which entry in /dev to redirect cat's output to, and what arcane stty 
command you need to set baud rate and word size on that, and that you 
have already edited the leader, trailer, and any junk off the tape file 
you downloaded from the 'net :-)



On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy


On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:


OK now I need a little help.
Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate

the reader on an ASR33?

I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have

long forgotten


For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other

utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:

http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
and on mine:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull






--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Er whats tip?


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Warner Losh via cctalk
Sent: 07 December 2018 17:36
To: systems_glitch; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

These days I just use tip.

Warner

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 10:25 AM systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> > > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK now I need a little help.
> > >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
> > the reader on an ASR33?
> > >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I
> have
> > long forgotten
> > >
> > > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
> > utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> > > and on mine:
> > > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pete
> > > Pete Turnbull
> >
> >
>

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: systems_glitch via cctalk
Sent: 07 December 2018 17:06
To: Jon Elson; CCTalk
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

minicom on Linux/*BSD and OS X, TeraTerm under Windows.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:48 AM Jon Elson via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 12/07/2018 03:59 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the
> reader on an ASR33?
> > I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> > My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.
> >
> > Rod Smallwood
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >
> >
> I use minicom on Linux, but don't know if a Windows version
> is available.  It has allowed me to connect to a bunch of
> older devices and send data back and forth.
>
> Jon
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

These days I just use tip.

Warner

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 10:25 AM systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> > > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK now I need a little help.
> > >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
> > the reader on an ASR33?
> > >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I
> have
> > long forgotten
> > >
> > > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
> > utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> > > and on mine:
> > > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pete
> > > Pete Turnbull
> >
> >
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
> > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> OK now I need a little help.
> >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
> the reader on an ASR33?
> >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> >
> > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
> utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> > and on mine:
> > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> >
> > --
> > Pete
> > Pete Turnbull
>
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> OK now I need a little help.
>> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the 
>> reader on an ASR33?
>> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
>> forgotten
> 
> For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other 
> utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> and on mine:
> http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> 
> -- 
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

minicom on Linux/*BSD and OS X, TeraTerm under Windows.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:48 AM Jon Elson via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 12/07/2018 03:59 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the
> reader on an ASR33?
> > I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> > My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.
> >
> > Rod Smallwood
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >
> >
> I use minicom on Linux, but don't know if a Windows version
> is available.  It has allowed me to connect to a bunch of
> older devices and send data back and forth.
>
> Jon
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 03:59 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:


Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader 
on an ASR33?
I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
forgotten
My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.

Rod Smallwood



Sent from Mail for Windows 10


I use minicom on Linux, but don't know if a Windows version 
is available.  It has allowed me to connect to a bunch of 
older devices and send data back and forth.


Jon

RE: PDP-8/e

[mike via cctalk]

What I do for loading paper tape into my PDP8E via the ASR33 is.
1. key in the RIM loader from the front panel 2. Run the RIM to load the a
copy of BIN from the ASR33 paper tape 3. Once the BIN is in core, you can
load any other file or program from the ASR 33 Paper tape.

What tapes do you have?

Mike Zahorik
(414) 254-6768

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian L.
Stuart via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:05 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Rod G8DGR
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

RE: PDP-8/e

[mike via cctalk]

What I do for loading paper tape into my PDP8E via the ASR33 is.
1. key in the RIM loader from the front panel
2. Run the RIM to load the a copy of BIN from the ASR33 paper tape
3. Once the BIN is in core, you can load any other file or program from the
ASR 33 Paper tape.

What tapes do you have?

Mike Zahorik
(414) 254-6768
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian L.
Stuart via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:05 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Rod G8DGR
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

Re: PDP-8/e

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:


OK now I need a little help.
Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader 
on an ASR33?
I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
forgotten


For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other 
utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:

http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
and on mine:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

Congrats!!

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:59 AM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> Hi All
>Seasons Greetings..
>
> My PDP-8/e was long due for a major overhaul.
> 1. So everything out
> 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus
> 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
> 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
> 5. Power off
> 6. Install minimal System – Front Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k
> Core and Bus term.
> 7. Yup all looks in right order
> 8. Power on
> 9. Toggle in standard AC count up program
> 10. Clear + Cont
> 11. And they are racing at Rockingham!!
> 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
> 13. Let it run for a while.
> 14. All stop.
> 15. PSU off
> 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud only)
> 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its alive.
> 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
> 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
> 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed back.
>
> OK now I need a little help.
> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the
> reader on an ASR33?
> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.
>
> Rod Smallwood
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[allison via cctalk]

On 8/16/17 9:38 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:35 AM, allison via cctalk
 wrote:

Note: TU58 (variant of DC100 tape) to my knowledge was never used with PDP-8
in any flavor.  There is no reason why not other than no driver and it 8bit
only and the blocking is 512bytes.

I remember a lot of discussion in PDP-8 user group newsletters about
the TU-58 when it came out (due to cost, size, and convenience), but
one technical problem dominated the articles - how to generate a break
from various types of PDP-8 serial ports.  ISTR some of the talk was
around hacking the hardware to make it possible (jamming multiple
nulls into the transmit latches without waiting for the previous one
to complete, for one).

In the end, I think it never worked out to be a favorable peripheral
to go with, perhaps because floppies got cheaper and easier and older
machines declined in active use.

-ethan

it was odd and optimized for 16/32bit machines of the day.  The transfer
speed for a well buffered system was limited to about 25kbits/S average.
Without buffering or low response the rate was easily much less.  On the 
whole
I've limited TU-58 to physically small Qbus PDP11 systems as its 
painfully slow

but very portable (even RX02 is heavy).

For modern implementation it would be easier to take an Arduino or R-PI
and match the serial limitations of the PDP-8 with a more suitable protocol
and also handle 8/12bit more transparently.  That and large storage using
SD or microSD would be very cheap.  Over ten years ago I  went the route of
a simple serial using 8749 and a 128kx8 ram to store 6bit half words
in an block addressable form (256 6bit or 128 12bit words).   It didn't
try to emulate a popular PDP-8 storage so it was easy to get going. Today
I'd use Arduino and either battery backed up ram or SD.

The alternate to that in modern hardware is to emulate the DF32 using
three cycle data break.  The actual storage can be a pair of 8bit ram as a
12 bit wide memory wich is cheap and easy as cmos parts for 32K bytes
abound and larger to 1mb can be found easily.  A PDP-8 with 128K words
of very fast no latency "disk" would be a interesting.  The basic hardware
can be copied from the 3cycle databreak foundation module.  Most of the
PDP-8 OSs supported DF32 if only for swap.

Allison

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:35 AM, allison via cctalk
 wrote:
> Note: TU58 (variant of DC100 tape) to my knowledge was never used with PDP-8
> in any flavor.  There is no reason why not other than no driver and it 8bit
> only and the blocking is 512bytes.

I remember a lot of discussion in PDP-8 user group newsletters about
the TU-58 when it came out (due to cost, size, and convenience), but
one technical problem dominated the articles - how to generate a break
from various types of PDP-8 serial ports.  ISTR some of the talk was
around hacking the hardware to make it possible (jamming multiple
nulls into the transmit latches without waiting for the previous one
to complete, for one).

In the end, I think it never worked out to be a favorable peripheral
to go with, perhaps because floppies got cheaper and easier and older
machines declined in active use.

-ethan

Re: pdp-8/e restoration update.

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

>
> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:22:58 +0100
> From: Rod Smallwood 
> Subject: pdp-8/e restoration update.
>
> Hi List
>
> Well I think I've found why the RX01 is not responding.
>
> The device address (75) is not getting decoded on the controller because
> the CPU does not assert BUS I/O PAUSE L
>
> Which it should do I think when it sees an IO instruction.
>
> Do I have this right?
>
> Rod Smallwood
>

Yes, you have it right. Take a look at E7 pin 6 in the M8330 Timing
Generator. It is in section C2 on the prints. It decodes the instruction
6xxx, USER MODE H, and I/O TIME (1) and drives I/O PAUSE low.

-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Philipp Hachtmann

> The DEC stuff was designed quite wrong-insertion resistant.
> ...
> I did it. Once. It leads to impressive fireworks on many boards.

I managed to plug in an M9301 backwards, once. Luckily, most of the other
boards came through OK (I think I lost one chip on the CPU), but on the
M9301, I fried over half a dozen chips.

Just goes to show, they _try_ and make it hard to put them in wrong, but it's
still possible! :-)

Later on, they got smart - they gave up trying to prevent smart fools ('you
can't make anything fool-prof because...') like me from doing it, and instead
made it harmless to do - on the QBUS, many boards can take being plugged in
wrong, with no ill effects. I think I did that at least once, there.

Noel

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[allison via cctalk]

Note: TU58 (variant of DC100 tape) to my knowledge was never used with PDP-8
in any flavor.  There is no reason why not other than no driver and it 
8bit only

and the blocking is 512bytes.

The 8bit part is solved by storing 2 words (12bit word) to 3 bytes (24bits).

It could be quite handy as a DECTape substitute.

As distribution it was the same as RX01 in size (256K max) and not cheaper.
it was more compact as a system loader typically used on VAX730 and PDT110.


On 8/8/17 1:09 AM, Ian S. King via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



On 08/08/2017 00:01, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:


On 8/7/2017 3:50 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:



One other thing - I have a working TU58.
The two cassette drives in a box type with serial interface.
Now the pdp-8/e DECTapes were also called TU58.


The typical DECtapes used with the PDP-8 were TU56's, a completely
different (and much more rare) beast.

The M8650 is on the list of what you can connect it to.

So does the one substitute for the other and raise the possibility of
booting from tape?


No, they're not substitutes.  I'm not aware of any PDP-8 systems booting
and running from a TU58, but I suppose it's not impossible. Mostly the
problem with the TU58 at this point is that (a) the capstan rollers in your
drives are most likely tar, and (b) the rubber parts in the tape itself
have done the same, and (c) the tape itself probably isn't in great shape
either.

- Josh



Rod



Mmm senior confusion.

Its a working TU58 - Restored including fixing the roller problem.
Runs on a PC OK.

Just fixed the echo test problem.
RS232 on M8650 needed a jumper E-M on board or plug.


So now to check out that  rim loader stuff.
Its in C but I can get round that problem.


Rod

--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.



For verily, LINCtape begat DECtape, and DECtape begat DECtape II.  LINCtape
and DECtape were legitimate backing store, DECtape II was a cheap way of
delivering software updates.

And since when is C a 'problem'?  :-)  -- Ian

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Ian S. King via cctalk]

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 08/08/2017 00:01, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On 8/7/2017 3:50 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> One other thing - I have a working TU58.
>>> The two cassette drives in a box type with serial interface.
>>> Now the pdp-8/e DECTapes were also called TU58.
>>>
>>
>> The typical DECtapes used with the PDP-8 were TU56's, a completely
>> different (and much more rare) beast.
>>
>> The M8650 is on the list of what you can connect it to.
>>> So does the one substitute for the other and raise the possibility of
>>> booting from tape?
>>>
>>
>> No, they're not substitutes.  I'm not aware of any PDP-8 systems booting
>> and running from a TU58, but I suppose it's not impossible. Mostly the
>> problem with the TU58 at this point is that (a) the capstan rollers in your
>> drives are most likely tar, and (b) the rubber parts in the tape itself
>> have done the same, and (c) the tape itself probably isn't in great shape
>> either.
>>
>> - Josh
>>
>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>>
>> Mmm senior confusion.
>
> Its a working TU58 - Restored including fixing the roller problem.
> Runs on a PC OK.
>
> Just fixed the echo test problem.
> RS232 on M8650 needed a jumper E-M on board or plug.
>
>
> So now to check out that  rim loader stuff.
> Its in C but I can get round that problem.
>
>
> Rod
>
> --
> Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.
>
>
For verily, LINCtape begat DECtape, and DECtape begat DECtape II.  LINCtape
and DECtape were legitimate backing store, DECtape II was a cheap way of
delivering software updates.

And since when is C a 'problem'?  :-)  -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Principal Investigator, "Reflections on Early Computing and Social Change",
UW IRB #42619

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Ed via cctalk]

I did not  know of Kevin's  site..
Great  stuff there.
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 8/7/2017 2:41:24 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On  07/08/2017 18:37, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

> So to-morrow  connect up a terminal that will do 110 baud and try an echo 
>  test.
> 
> Next part is interesting. There should be a way to fake  a reader / punch 
> and feed in tape images.

There is.  Look  on Kevin McQuiggin's site:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/

In the  section called "Software", about 1/3 of the way down, look for 
send.c or  better still new-send.c (I call it rsend, on my system).  You 
might  also find rim.c and the BIN loader useful.

They're also on my webpage,  with the corresponding  manpages:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

That's the  easiest place to get the manpages for rim.c, send.c, rsend.c. 
Here's the  gist (top parts of the manpages):

rim - create RIM-format file from  ASCII addr/instr
rim is a very simple converter.  It  reads in a file containing two
columns of ASCII digits; the  first column is a list of addresses (in
octal) and the second  is a list of machine instructions (also octal).
Output is a  file suitable to feed to the RIM loader on a PDP-8.

send, rsend - send  a file in RIM or BIN format to a PDP-8
send and rsend are  utilities to transmit a RIM format or BIN format
file from a  UNIX (or other) host to a PDP-8 over a serial line.  The
PDP-8 should be running the RIM loader routine prior to  starting
either of these programs.
Input  should be a file in RIM format or BIN format.  Output goes  to
the host serial port, which should be connected via  appropriate cable
to the PDP-8.
send is a  simple version, with built-in serial port settings and a
fixed  delay between characters.  rsend is more sophisticated; it  can
be controlled by command-line options or environment  variables, and
can accept input on stdin.

On a Unix (or  Linux etc) machine you can pipe the output from rim to 
rsend, and if  you're using papertape images (of which there are load on 
the net), rsend  can strip the headers for you.

-- 
Pete
Pete  Turnbull

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On 8/7/2017 3:50 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:




On 07/08/2017 22:52, Ian S. King via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 07/08/2017 18:37, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

So to-morrow connect up a terminal that will do 110 baud and try an 
echo

test.

Next part is interesting. There should be a way to fake a reader / 
punch

and feed in tape images.


There is.  Look on Kevin McQuiggin's site:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/

In the section called "Software", about 1/3 of the way down, look for
send.c or better still new-send.c (I call it rsend, on my system).  You
might also find rim.c and the BIN loader useful.

They're also on my webpage, with the corresponding manpages:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

That's the easiest place to get the manpages for rim.c, send.c, 
rsend.c.

Here's the gist (top parts of the manpages):

rim - create RIM-format file from ASCII addr/instr
   rim is a very simple converter.  It reads in a file containing two
   columns of ASCII digits; the first column is a list of addresses (in
   octal) and the second is a list of machine instructions (also 
octal).

   Output is a file suitable to feed to the RIM loader on a PDP-8.

send, rsend - send a file in RIM or BIN format to a PDP-8
   send and rsend are utilities to transmit a RIM format or BIN format
   file from a UNIX (or other) host to a PDP-8 over a serial line.  The
   PDP-8 should be running the RIM loader routine prior to starting
   either of these programs.
   Input should be a file in RIM format or BIN format.  Output goes to
   the host serial port, which should be connected via appropriate 
cable

   to the PDP-8.
   send is a simple version, with built-in serial port settings and a
   fixed delay between characters.  rsend is more sophisticated; it can
   be controlled by command-line options or environment variables, and
   can accept input on stdin.

On a Unix (or Linux etc) machine you can pipe the output from rim to
rsend, and if you're using papertape images (of which there are load 
on the

net), rsend can strip the headers for you.

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull


Once upon a time I wrote a Python program to stand in for an ASR-33,
providing both a terminal session and a papertape image reader/punch.
N.B.: much PDP-8 software likes 7E1, but PTR/PTP is 8N1.  ISTR that even
when I fiddled with SLU settings, I couldn't get away from 7E1 for 
some of

the diagnostics.  Of course, I've slept since then.  -- Ian


Thank you that's interesting.
So far to-day I hooked up a three wire RS232 connection to an old 
Compaq notebook and ran msk315 (kermit)

Next SET BAUD 110
Then toggle in the print test on the 8/e.
Yup prints the character set on the notebook
Then echo test - nope.
The M8650 probably needs DTR or whatever.
Three wires was a bit cheeky I guess
In the hardware docs for the 8/e there's a load of info about the 8650.
I'll go read that.


Three wires should be enough, no DTR necessary.  Double-check your 
wiring and the jumpering on the M8650.




One other thing - I have a working TU58.
The two cassette drives in a box type with serial interface.
Now the pdp-8/e DECTapes were also called TU58.


The typical DECtapes used with the PDP-8 were TU56's, a completely 
different (and much more rare) beast.



The M8650 is on the list of what you can connect it to.
So does the one substitute for the other and raise the possibility of 
booting from tape?


No, they're not substitutes.  I'm not aware of any PDP-8 systems booting 
and running from a TU58, but I suppose it's not impossible. Mostly the 
problem with the TU58 at this point is that (a) the capstan rollers in 
your drives are most likely tar, and (b) the rubber parts in the tape 
itself have done the same, and (c) the tape itself probably isn't in 
great shape either.


- Josh



Rod

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 07/08/2017 22:52, Ian S. King via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 07/08/2017 18:37, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

So to-morrow connect up a terminal that will do 110 baud and try an echo

test.

Next part is interesting. There should be a way to fake a reader / punch
and feed in tape images.


There is.  Look on Kevin McQuiggin's site:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/

In the section called "Software", about 1/3 of the way down, look for
send.c or better still new-send.c (I call it rsend, on my system).  You
might also find rim.c and the BIN loader useful.

They're also on my webpage, with the corresponding manpages:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

That's the easiest place to get the manpages for rim.c, send.c, rsend.c.
Here's the gist (top parts of the manpages):

rim - create RIM-format file from ASCII addr/instr
   rim is a very simple converter.  It reads in a file containing two
   columns of ASCII digits; the first column is a list of addresses (in
   octal) and the second is a list of machine instructions (also octal).
   Output is a file suitable to feed to the RIM loader on a PDP-8.

send, rsend - send a file in RIM or BIN format to a PDP-8
   send and rsend are utilities to transmit a RIM format or BIN format
   file from a UNIX (or other) host to a PDP-8 over a serial line.  The
   PDP-8 should be running the RIM loader routine prior to starting
   either of these programs.
   Input should be a file in RIM format or BIN format.  Output goes to
   the host serial port, which should be connected via appropriate cable
   to the PDP-8.
   send is a simple version, with built-in serial port settings and a
   fixed delay between characters.  rsend is more sophisticated; it can
   be controlled by command-line options or environment variables, and
   can accept input on stdin.

On a Unix (or Linux etc) machine you can pipe the output from rim to
rsend, and if you're using papertape images (of which there are load on the
net), rsend can strip the headers for you.

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull


Once upon a time I wrote a Python program to stand in for an ASR-33,
providing both a terminal session and a papertape image reader/punch.
N.B.: much PDP-8 software likes 7E1, but PTR/PTP is 8N1.  ISTR that even
when I fiddled with SLU settings, I couldn't get away from 7E1 for some of
the diagnostics.  Of course, I've slept since then.  -- Ian


Thank you that's interesting.
So far to-day I hooked up a three wire RS232 connection to an old Compaq 
notebook and ran msk315 (kermit)

Next SET BAUD 110
Then toggle in the print test on the 8/e.
Yup prints the character set on the notebook
Then echo test - nope.
The M8650 probably needs DTR or whatever.
Three wires was a bit cheeky I guess
In the hardware docs for the 8/e there's a load of info about the 8650.
I'll go read that.

One other thing - I have a working TU58.
The two cassette drives in a box type with serial interface.
Now the pdp-8/e DECTapes were also called TU58.
The M8650 is on the list of what you can connect it to.
So does the one substitute for the other and raise the possibility of 
booting from tape?


Rod

--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Ian S. King via cctalk]

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 07/08/2017 18:37, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:
>
> So to-morrow connect up a terminal that will do 110 baud and try an echo
>> test.
>>
>> Next part is interesting. There should be a way to fake a reader / punch
>> and feed in tape images.
>>
>
> There is.  Look on Kevin McQuiggin's site:
> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
>
> In the section called "Software", about 1/3 of the way down, look for
> send.c or better still new-send.c (I call it rsend, on my system).  You
> might also find rim.c and the BIN loader useful.
>
> They're also on my webpage, with the corresponding manpages:
> http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
>
> That's the easiest place to get the manpages for rim.c, send.c, rsend.c.
> Here's the gist (top parts of the manpages):
>
> rim - create RIM-format file from ASCII addr/instr
>   rim is a very simple converter.  It reads in a file containing two
>   columns of ASCII digits; the first column is a list of addresses (in
>   octal) and the second is a list of machine instructions (also octal).
>   Output is a file suitable to feed to the RIM loader on a PDP-8.
>
> send, rsend - send a file in RIM or BIN format to a PDP-8
>   send and rsend are utilities to transmit a RIM format or BIN format
>   file from a UNIX (or other) host to a PDP-8 over a serial line.  The
>   PDP-8 should be running the RIM loader routine prior to starting
>   either of these programs.
>   Input should be a file in RIM format or BIN format.  Output goes to
>   the host serial port, which should be connected via appropriate cable
>   to the PDP-8.
>   send is a simple version, with built-in serial port settings and a
>   fixed delay between characters.  rsend is more sophisticated; it can
>   be controlled by command-line options or environment variables, and
>   can accept input on stdin.
>
> On a Unix (or Linux etc) machine you can pipe the output from rim to
> rsend, and if you're using papertape images (of which there are load on the
> net), rsend can strip the headers for you.
>
> --
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull
>

Once upon a time I wrote a Python program to stand in for an ASR-33,
providing both a terminal session and a papertape image reader/punch.
N.B.: much PDP-8 software likes 7E1, but PTR/PTP is 8N1.  ISTR that even
when I fiddled with SLU settings, I couldn't get away from 7E1 for some of
the diagnostics.  Of course, I've slept since then.  -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Principal Investigator, "Reflections on Early Computing and Social Change",
UW IRB #42619

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/08/2017 18:37, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

So to-morrow connect up a terminal that will do 110 baud and try an echo 
test.


Next part is interesting. There should be a way to fake a reader / punch 
and feed in tape images.


There is.  Look on Kevin McQuiggin's site:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/

In the section called "Software", about 1/3 of the way down, look for 
send.c or better still new-send.c (I call it rsend, on my system).  You 
might also find rim.c and the BIN loader useful.


They're also on my webpage, with the corresponding manpages:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

That's the easiest place to get the manpages for rim.c, send.c, rsend.c. 
Here's the gist (top parts of the manpages):


rim - create RIM-format file from ASCII addr/instr
  rim is a very simple converter.  It reads in a file containing two
  columns of ASCII digits; the first column is a list of addresses (in
  octal) and the second is a list of machine instructions (also octal).
  Output is a file suitable to feed to the RIM loader on a PDP-8.

send, rsend - send a file in RIM or BIN format to a PDP-8
  send and rsend are utilities to transmit a RIM format or BIN format
  file from a UNIX (or other) host to a PDP-8 over a serial line.  The
  PDP-8 should be running the RIM loader routine prior to starting
  either of these programs.
  Input should be a file in RIM format or BIN format.  Output goes to
  the host serial port, which should be connected via appropriate cable
  to the PDP-8.
  send is a simple version, with built-in serial port settings and a
  fixed delay between characters.  rsend is more sophisticated; it can
  be controlled by command-line options or environment variables, and
  can accept input on stdin.

On a Unix (or Linux etc) machine you can pipe the output from rim to 
rsend, and if you're using papertape images (of which there are load on 
the net), rsend can strip the headers for you.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 07/08/2017 17:05, Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk wrote:

On 04.08.2017 09:24, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

Hi List

Hi Rod!

  I looks like I have at last got a KK8-E CPU set to continue 
getting my 8/e back running again.

It looks that you have one more set stored in my facility in Hannover!!!
I became feeling more and more bad about that. Then I forgot it again. 
Then I felt even more bad by not remembering WHOSE boards those are 
(because there is no "Rod Smallwood" written nowhere on the packet).

Now I have connected that again!

The system has a working rebuilt PSU with all of the caps reformed or 
replaced. Voltages are good.

Wow, I never did that. I always made a smoke test.


There's 16k of core at the back with a terminator at the end.

Not bad.

Power up and all the lamps come on either bright or dim (off) except 
the RUN light.

Sounds not so wrong.

2. Are there any tests like resistance I can do on the CPU board set 
before inserting them in the correct front slots?
There are no "correct" slots. Not for *any* of the boards. You can mix 
it up completely. Even the front panel could be omitted, doubled, or 
put into an expansion box.
BUT.. There actually IS a DEC recommended order, yes... And having the 
terminator board somehow at the end of the Omnibus seems to be a good 
idea.


3. In the event the CPU set does not even do a simple write to and 
read from memory. Where do I start to look?
At the schematics? Front panel (!), timing generator, major state 
registers.


The DEC stuff was designed quite wrong-insertion resistant. But:
There is just one MAJOR fault you HAVE TO AVOID: NEVER NEVER NEVER 
plug in the middle board of an RK8E controller upside down!!


I did it. Once. It leads to impressive fireworks on many boards.

Regards
Philipp


Its now running just fine.
Count test runs.
The second set of 4k core is in and checks out.
Async. board has just gone in and is running.
I'm getting output RS232 on my BOB  when the print test is toggled in 
and run.
So to-morrow connect up a terminal that will do 110 baud and try an echo 
test.


Next part is interesting. There should be a way to fake a reader / punch 
and feed in tape images.


Rod

--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 04.08.2017 09:24, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

Hi List

Hi Rod!

  I looks like I have at last got a KK8-E CPU set to continue 
getting my 8/e back running again.

It looks that you have one more set stored in my facility in Hannover!!!
I became feeling more and more bad about that. Then I forgot it again. 
Then I felt even more bad by not remembering WHOSE boards those are 
(because there is no "Rod Smallwood" written nowhere on the packet).

Now I have connected that again!

The system has a working rebuilt PSU with all of the caps reformed or 
replaced. Voltages are good.

Wow, I never did that. I always made a smoke test.


There's 16k of core at the back with a terminator at the end.

Not bad.

Power up and all the lamps come on either bright or dim (off) except the 
RUN light.

Sounds not so wrong.

2. Are there any tests like resistance I can do on the CPU board set 
before inserting them in the correct front slots?
There are no "correct" slots. Not for *any* of the boards. You can mix 
it up completely. Even the front panel could be omitted, doubled, or put 
into an expansion box.
BUT.. There actually IS a DEC recommended order, yes... And having the 
terminator board somehow at the end of the Omnibus seems to be a good idea.


3. In the event the CPU set does not even do a simple write to and read 
from memory. Where do I start to look?

At the schematics? Front panel (!), timing generator, major state registers.

The DEC stuff was designed quite wrong-insertion resistant. But:
There is just one MAJOR fault you HAVE TO AVOID: NEVER NEVER NEVER plug 
in the middle board of an RK8E controller upside down!!


I did it. Once. It leads to impressive fireworks on many boards.

Regards
Philipp

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 04.08.2017 17:23, Doug Ingraham via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


1. Should the run light glow dimly?



Without looking at the schematics I can't tell you if they bothered to put
the resistor in there to make
it glow dimly but I can tell you that it isn't necessary for the run lamp.
The reason to make it glow
dimly when off is to reduce the filament thermal shock when turning on and
off.  This makes the bulbs
last a lot longer.  The run lamp does not flicker in operation so not
necessary on that one.


At least for the "normal" bulbs, the resistor is there. I once refitted 
a whole front panel with bulbs and resistors (which have to be removed 
when using anything LED related).

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 06/08/2017 18:10, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Ian S. King

 > Those keys are common across nearly all DEC machines prior to the ones
 > that started using plastic keys. XX2247 is the code.

Someone on eBait is selling replicas for not wholly unreasonable amounts of
money:

   http://www.ebay.com/itm/142118132040

Noel

Thank you Noel..
Rod

--
Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Ian S. King

> Those keys are common across nearly all DEC machines prior to the ones
> that started using plastic keys. XX2247 is the code. 

Someone on eBait is selling replicas for not wholly unreasonable amounts of
money:

  http://www.ebay.com/itm/142118132040

Noel

RE: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I have found that metal PS/2 keys work as well, if your are not insistant
on historical purity.  I, personally, have always prefered functionality over
appearance.

bill



From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Ian S. King via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 2:00 AM
To: Rod Smallwood; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

Those keys are common across nearly all DEC machines prior to the ones that
started using plastic keys.  XX2247 is the code.  -- Ian

On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi List!
>
>   Movin right along.
>
>  Programmers console now properly attached to light screening bar.
>
> Front panel and bezel on. Needs a bit more work.
>
> Not as secure or as straight as I would like.
>
> Then there's the key lock problem.
>
> Its in the off position and of course I don't have the key.
>
> So I cant fit that just now.
>
> Took power supply out. Changed mains cable as it was only a foot long.
>
> Soldered to the circuit breaker was a factory standard would you believe.
>
> Power supply back in. Connect up. Power on. Load address , press CLEAR
> and CONT.
>
> Test program still in core. Started right up.
>
> To-days task get the serial I/O going.
>
> Rod in Restore Mode
>
>
> .--
> Wanted one pdp-8/i rocker switch leaver to copy.
>
>


--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Principal Investigator, "Reflections on Early Computing and Social Change",
UW IRB #42619

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: pdp-8/e restoration the next step.

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 08/04/2017 05:31 PM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

Hi Guys

Thanks for the info so far. Well I have moved on. 
I now have the minimum configuration.


Programmers console, M8300,M8310,M8320,M8330,M849 and 4k 
of core memory.


The M8320 is at the far end of the bus.

Well much as I feared I cant write to memory using Load 
Address , set data to 0001, lift DEP.


Then set address to  again and press EXAM. I should 
see the contents of MD with the selector switch set to MD. 
I don't.


I have checked the correct bus signals go low when the DEP 
switch is lifted.


This is so fundamental somebody must have come across it 
before.


OK, try reading a few locations and see if you can find a 
non-zero one.  If so, go back and read it again.  If it 
still reads the same value, that is a GOOD sign.  it means 
the write-back after a read worked.  If the 2nd read comes 
up zero, it means the write-back failed.  This would tell 
you that the write function of the memory is bad, but the 
read function is OK.


If some portion of the memory CAN read/write, then that 
indicates that either some decode logic or some select 
drivers are not working.  If nothing works, then it could be 
a configuration issue (the plugged-in memory module is not 
set at address zero, for instance) .  But, eventually, you 
would have to trace it through the prints.  Fortunately, the 
PDP-8 is not a terribly complex CPU.


Jon

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Ian S. King via cctalk]

Yes, the 8/e has the 'keep-alive current'.  The lamps are driven by an 8V
line that runs from the power supply to the programmer's panel.  -- Ian

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Doug Ingraham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > 1. Should the run light glow dimly?
> >
>
> Without looking at the schematics I can't tell you if they bothered to put
> the resistor in there to make
> it glow dimly but I can tell you that it isn't necessary for the run lamp.
> The reason to make it glow
> dimly when off is to reduce the filament thermal shock when turning on and
> off.  This makes the bulbs
> last a lot longer.  The run lamp does not flicker in operation so not
> necessary on that one.
>
> --
> Doug Ingraham
> PDP-8 SN 1175
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Doug Ingraham via cctalk]

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> 1. Should the run light glow dimly?
>

Without looking at the schematics I can't tell you if they bothered to put
the resistor in there to make
it glow dimly but I can tell you that it isn't necessary for the run lamp.
The reason to make it glow
dimly when off is to reduce the filament thermal shock when turning on and
off.  This makes the bulbs
last a lot longer.  The run lamp does not flicker in operation so not
necessary on that one.

-- 
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175

Re: pdp-8/e restoration.

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 08/04/2017 02:24 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:



Programmers console is in its slot. Bad bulbs (not LEDs)  have been 
replaced


Power up and all the lamps come on either bright or dim (off) except 
the RUN light.


So questions:

1. Should the run light glow dimly?

Probably all lights should glow very dimly.  DEC put a resistor across 
the transistor to put a slight warming current through the bulb.  This 
reduces shock to the filament every time it is turned on.
(This info is from other DEC machines, not PDP-8, but I'm pretty sure 
they would do the same there.)


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e sales brochure

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Pontus Pihlgren

> I wonder what the three leftmost cabinets contains. I don't recall what
> peripherals have the blinkenlights at the top. RK05 and TU10
> controllers perhaps?

I have a half-done page with images of all the 5-1/4 inch indicator panels
(PDP-8, -11, -15); so I can identify the indicator panel on the right (above
to the two DECTape drives), which is a TC08 DECTape controller (I have a large
picture of one of those, for the page, and that's definitely it), which makes
sense, given it's in the same cabinet as the DECTape drives.

The other one, I have no idea - anyone?

I'm pretty sure it's not an RK08. The RK08, like the RK11-C, was wired for an
indicator panel, but like the TM08, it only used two rows of lights. (I've
never seen an image of one: this is deduced from reading the engineering
drawings.)


The partial page is here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html

if anyone is interested. Good images of the missing 5-1/4" indicator panels
(which also include the RF11 and FP15, as well as the mythical RK11, which may
not exist) gratefully accepted!

Noel

Re: PDP-8/e sales brochure

[Paul Koning]

On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 08:59:50PM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:
> I found a really nice PDP-8/e sales brochure while browsing through our
> heaps of documentation.
> 
> Plenty of nice close up photos and as last picture a system with everything.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/pdp8e-sales.pdf

"System with everything".  Neat.  I remember RSTS development had an 11/70 
system that was intended to have "two of everything". Everything then supported 
by RSTS/E, that is.  So of course its node name was "ARK".  At some point the 
number of supported peripherals got to the point where they couldn't live on a 
single machine any longer, either that or we needed more CPU for the team size, 
and a second machine ("GROK", an 11/44) was added to hold "the rest of the 
supported devices".

Actually, ARK had some unsupported stuff on it, for example an RP07.  That 
worked fine on an 11/70 (though not on any machine -- you needed the high speed 
Massbus found only there) but DEC never officially supported it.

paul

Re: PDP-8/e sales brochure

[Mattis Lind]

2016-05-02 11:57 GMT+02:00 Rod Smallwood :

>
>
> On 02/05/2016 10:32, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
>
>> On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 08:59:50PM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:
>>
>>> I found a really nice PDP-8/e sales brochure while browsing through our
>>> heaps of documentation.
>>>
>>> Plenty of nice close up photos and as last picture a system with
>>> everything.
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/pdp8e-sales.pdf
>>>
>> Wow, that last system :) I wonder what the three leftmost cabinets
>> contains. I don't recall what peripherals have the blinkenlights at the
>> top. RK05 and TU10 controllers perhaps?
>>
> The panel at the top with the display is almost certainly for a disk drive
> controller
> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>


I think that the top blinkenlights panel in the second from left cabinet is
a RF08 controller.

No guess for the other one.

Re: PDP-8/e sales brochure

[Rod Smallwood]

On 02/05/2016 10:32, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 08:59:50PM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:

I found a really nice PDP-8/e sales brochure while browsing through our
heaps of documentation.

Plenty of nice close up photos and as last picture a system with everything.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/pdp8e-sales.pdf

Wow, that last system :) I wonder what the three leftmost cabinets
contains. I don't recall what peripherals have the blinkenlights at the
top. RK05 and TU10 controllers perhaps?
The panel at the top with the display is almost certainly for a disk 
drive controller

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: PDP-8/e sales brochure

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 08:59:50PM +0200, Mattis Lind wrote:
> I found a really nice PDP-8/e sales brochure while browsing through our
> heaps of documentation.
> 
> Plenty of nice close up photos and as last picture a system with everything.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/pdp8e-sales.pdf

Wow, that last system :) I wonder what the three leftmost cabinets 
contains. I don't recall what peripherals have the blinkenlights at the 
top. RK05 and TU10 controllers perhaps?

Re: PDP-8/e sales brochure

[COURYHOUSE]

That is spectacular! thanks  for  sharing it!
 
that last  picture is why  you needed the  E  with both  backplanes  to 
hold all the i/o  for all those devices!
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 5/1/2016 11:59:54 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
mattisl...@gmail.com writes:

I found  a really nice PDP-8/e sales brochure while browsing through our
heaps of  documentation.

Plenty of nice close up photos and as last picture a  system with  
everything.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/pdp8e-sales.pdf

Re: PDP-8/E-F-M OEM price list on eBay

[Rod Smallwood]

On 27/03/2016 11:19, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

Lyle would love a scan of it!
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)
  
  
In a message dated 3/26/2016 9:59:18 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,

lbick...@bickleywest.com writes:

On Sat,  26 Mar 2016 12:50:02 -0400 (EDT)
j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)  wrote:


Hey, all you PDP-8 people: there's a PDP-8/E-F-M OEM price  list going
on eBay, not very much:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272187153709

I saw it go past once  before, figured someone would notice and grab
it, but I guess  not...

 Noel

Thanks, I bought it  :)

Lyle

Well I was a DEC sales engineer in 1973.
I'm not sure what that was for.

The PDP-8 product line price list was about six inches of 132 col listing
The standing joke was you were not allowed to take it out of the office.
It was so heavy you couldn't have taken it any way.

OEM deals were quantity driven discounts and varied all over the place.

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: PDP-8/E-F-M OEM price list on eBay

[COURYHOUSE]

Lyle would love a scan of it!
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) 
 
 
In a message dated 3/26/2016 9:59:18 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
lbick...@bickleywest.com writes:

On Sat,  26 Mar 2016 12:50:02 -0400 (EDT)
j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)  wrote:

> Hey, all you PDP-8 people: there's a PDP-8/E-F-M OEM price  list going
> on eBay, not very much:
> 
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/272187153709
> 
> I saw it go past once  before, figured someone would notice and grab
> it, but I guess  not...
> 
> Noel

Thanks, I bought it  :)

Lyle
-- 
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West  Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by  zero"

Re: PDP-8/E-F-M OEM price list on eBay

[Lyle Bickley]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 12:50:02 -0400 (EDT)
j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:

> Hey, all you PDP-8 people: there's a PDP-8/E-F-M OEM price list going
> on eBay, not very much:
> 
>   http://www.ebay.com/itm/272187153709
> 
> I saw it go past once before, figured someone would notice and grab
> it, but I guess not...
> 
>   Noel

Thanks, I bought it :)

Lyle
-- 
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

[Joshua Stetson]

I've been wanting to get some reproduction switches for my 8/e, simply
because I have a blue panel, but the orange switches. I would love to get a
set of the blue paddles.

I would go in on a set if they were injection molded or cast; unless
they're some of the higher resolution eboxy based prints.

I have thought about just making a silicone mold of an existing switch and
attempting to cast some myself, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Anders Nelson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I found switch levers and a mounting frame design (
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853) that I would like to have casted
> with molded-in color, close to the originals as reasonable.
>
> Has anyone already done this that I can simply buy from? If any injection
> molds have been built I'd love to put those to work. Would it be better to
> just paint a 3D print of these?
>
> Also has anyone created the front panel PCB design? I use EAGLE and would
> love to at least have a CAD outline from which to start as I build my
> emulated PDP-8/e. Pretty much like the SBC6120 but emulated on a 32-bit
> micro as opposed to the HD6120.
>
> I await your thoughts!
>
> --
> Anders Nelson
>
> +1 (517) 775-6129
>
> www.erogear.com
>

Re: PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

[Rod Smallwood]

On 02/03/2016 23:36, Glen Slick wrote:

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Vincent Slyngstad
 wrote:

I naturally suggest mine, available at
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php


What, no DSSI bus ID plugs? :)
In between my adventures in Panel Land I also looked at PDP-8 switches 
and other items that could be 3d printed. I came up with the following:


1,  For replacing one or two missing switch levers 3d printing 
is ideal.


2,  I believe the plastic to be ABS

3. For example LEGO bricks were ABS, They are now changing to a 
greener type of plastic.


4. Matching the colo(u)r might  prove interesting.

5. For those who need larger quantities then good old injection 
moulding is still the best way to go.


6. Mould making costs used to be high but modern CNC machines 
can do the job in short order.


7. The split line on a PDP-8 lever is clearly visible. This 
shows they were made in a two part mould.


8, How many per mould were there I don't know but say ten would 
not be beyond even small machines


9. As soon as I get to a ship from stock situation on panels I 
might  revisit switches.


10. And finally .. would I trust the Chinese?  Probably not!

Rod

Re: PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Glen Slick: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 3:36 PM

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:

I naturally suggest mine, available at
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php


What, no DSSI bus ID plugs? :)


I had to Google what those were, being basically a PDP-8 geek.
(I found a set for sale on eBay.)  Those do look like something
that shouldn’t be too hard to print.  I don't know the magic
encoding (or indeed anything else about them), though.

   Vince 

Re: PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

[Glen Slick]

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Vincent Slyngstad
 wrote:
>
> I naturally suggest mine, available at
> http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
>

What, no DSSI bus ID plugs? :)

Re: PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Anders Nelson: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 11:16 AM

I found switch levers and a mounting frame design (
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853) that I would like to have casted
with molded-in color, close to the originals as reasonable.


I naturally suggest mine, available at 
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php


I've done some work to make the fit as close as I can to the 
original handles.



Has anyone already done this that I can simply buy from? If any injection
molds have been built I'd love to put those to work. Would it be better to
just paint a 3D print of these?


I've ordered handles in "strong and flexible, polished", from 
Shapeways.com.  They aren't cheap, but they're easy and they 
do work well.


I've had good luck just spray painting them with an appropriate 
paint.  Shapeways' color choices for dyed parts are OK, but not 
particularly close to the original colors.  If you decide to go with 
the dyes, you'll want to use urethane floor polish or the like to 
seal the pores and provide a satin finish.  If you don't seal the 
pores, they pick up dirt, and are a bear to keep clean.


Finding the switch bodies to put them on is challenging.


Also has anyone created the front panel PCB design? I use EAGLE and would
love to at least have a CAD outline from which to start as I build my
emulated PDP-8/e. Pretty much like the SBC6120 but emulated on a 32-bit
micro as opposed to the HD6120.


If you want the actual 8/E PCB design, I've re-drawn the bulb PCB at
http://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/Eagle/projects/DEC/8ePanel/

Here's the big list of other PCBs I've drawn, for what that's worth:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/boards.php

If you're wanting a panel for a modern micro, I concur with the 
recommendation or Oscar's 8/I replica as a starting point.  Interfacing 
the pi to something behind Rod's front panel artwork would be pretty 
cool.  (Though I'm a bigger fan of the 8/I panel, myself.)


   Vince 

Re: PDP-8/e - Front panel switch reproductions and front panel PCB?

[Don North]

On 3/2/2016 11:16 AM, Anders Nelson wrote:

I found switch levers and a mounting frame design (
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853) that I would like to have casted
with molded-in color, close to the originals as reasonable.

Has anyone already done this that I can simply buy from? If any injection
molds have been built I'd love to put those to work. Would it be better to
just paint a 3D print of these?

Also has anyone created the front panel PCB design? I use EAGLE and would
love to at least have a CAD outline from which to start as I build my
emulated PDP-8/e. Pretty much like the SBC6120 but emulated on a 32-bit
micro as opposed to the HD6120.

I await your thoughts!


Have you seen this: http://obsolescence.wix.com/obsolescence#!pidp-8/cbie

It might just satisfy your 'need' (and there are a lot more blinkin' lights on 
the 8i then on the 8e).


If this is not quite right, the basic design may make a good jumping off point 
to get to an 8e variation.


Oscar's design is a scaled (~2/3) configuration, so it is not an 'exact' replica 
per se. There is another
project in the works to create exact PDP-8e/f/m etc replica front panels (Rob 
Smallwood IIRC) but
I believe that is the acrylic panel only, nothing else. You need to supply all 
the other 8e parts yourself.


Don

Re: PDP-8/e front panels.

[Noel Chiappa]

 From: Rod Smallwood

 The switches were made by a company in the US called Stackpole
 ...
 They are a normal slide type modified with a U bracket to allow the
 attachment of a lever arm to operate the switch when toggled up and
 down.

Ah; the 11/05's (which is what I need switches for) use toggle switches (like
I said, pretty much standard micro toggle switches, excepts for the front
plate). I'm pretty sure the later 11's with complete front panels (40's,
45's, etc) used the same kind of switch.

I was assuming all the PDP-x's of that era used the same front panel switch
design, but apparently not. Or perhaps I'm mixing my eras a bit, and the
slightly earlier ones all used the slide switch stuff (I just checked my KA-11
panel, and it uses slide switches). I think the 11/20 might have used the
slide switches (its switch register looks just like the one on the -8M).

Anyway, it seems like we all need both kinds! :-)

Noel

Re: PDP-8/e front panels.

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 6/7/2015 9:01 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:



On 08/06/2015 02:51, Mike Ross wrote:
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Noel Chiappa 
j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu wrote:

  From: Rod Smallwood

  I have recently produced a number of high quality custom 
PDP8/e front

  panels.  They are full size reproductions of the original. The
  production methods are exactly as used in circa 1971.

First, my sincere congratulations! This is a real contribution, and 
I doubt it

was trivial to accomplish.

  I'll also instigate another batch of ten. .. If I get orders 
for more

  than ten then I'll bump up the second batch size accordingly.

These sound so cool I'm tempted to buy one, even though I don't even 
own a

PDP-8! :-)

  If there is a demand I'll do other 8's or 11's front panels 
that use

  the same plexiglas and silk screen technique.

Someone mentioned -12's and -15's?

That would be me.

I have one -12 with a smashed front panel, and one -15 with the nasty
XVM sticky plastic sheet front panel that would look much better with
a plexiglass replacement! The -15s I have also all have the same nasty
sticky sheet for the peripherals blinkenlights - RP15  FP15, see
http://www.corestore.org/15-2.htm - I'd like to replace those too.

(They are a real oddity; did ANY other DEC equipment use this kind of
blinkenlights panel, with cheap nasty sticky plastic sheet instead of
plexiglass? I've never seen them anywhere except pdp-15 XVM systems)

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Interesting ... I was at DEC for ten years and I cannot recall having 
seen either of them.

I'll give some thought as to how to do one offs.

Rod


I'd be interested in a -12 panel also. Probably the -15 too, they are 
just too beautiful and would make nice FPGA based replicas.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8/e front panels.

[Rod Smallwood]

On 08/06/2015 02:51, Mike Ross wrote:

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Noel Chiappa j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu wrote:

  From: Rod Smallwood

  I have recently produced a number of high quality custom PDP8/e front
  panels.  They are full size reproductions of the original. The
  production methods are exactly as used in circa 1971.

First, my sincere congratulations! This is a real contribution, and I doubt it
was trivial to accomplish.

  I'll also instigate another batch of ten. .. If I get orders for more
  than ten then I'll bump up the second batch size accordingly.

These sound so cool I'm tempted to buy one, even though I don't even own a
PDP-8! :-)

  If there is a demand I'll do other 8's or 11's front panels that use
  the same plexiglas and silk screen technique.

Someone mentioned -12's and -15's?

That would be me.

I have one -12 with a smashed front panel, and one -15 with the nasty
XVM sticky plastic sheet front panel that would look much better with
a plexiglass replacement! The -15s I have also all have the same nasty
sticky sheet for the peripherals blinkenlights - RP15  FP15, see
http://www.corestore.org/15-2.htm - I'd like to replace those too.

(They are a real oddity; did ANY other DEC equipment use this kind of
blinkenlights panel, with cheap nasty sticky plastic sheet instead of
plexiglass? I've never seen them anywhere except pdp-15 XVM systems)

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Interesting ... I was at DEC for ten years and I cannot recall having 
seen either of them.

I'll give some thought as to how to do one offs.

Rod

Re: PDP-8/e front panels.

[Mike Ross]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Noel Chiappa j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu wrote:
  From: Rod Smallwood

  I have recently produced a number of high quality custom PDP8/e front
  panels.  They are full size reproductions of the original. The
  production methods are exactly as used in circa 1971.

 First, my sincere congratulations! This is a real contribution, and I doubt it
 was trivial to accomplish.

  I'll also instigate another batch of ten. .. If I get orders for more
  than ten then I'll bump up the second batch size accordingly.

 These sound so cool I'm tempted to buy one, even though I don't even own a
 PDP-8! :-)

  If there is a demand I'll do other 8's or 11's front panels that use
  the same plexiglas and silk screen technique.

 Someone mentioned -12's and -15's?

That would be me.

I have one -12 with a smashed front panel, and one -15 with the nasty
XVM sticky plastic sheet front panel that would look much better with
a plexiglass replacement! The -15s I have also all have the same nasty
sticky sheet for the peripherals blinkenlights - RP15  FP15, see
http://www.corestore.org/15-2.htm - I'd like to replace those too.

(They are a real oddity; did ANY other DEC equipment use this kind of
blinkenlights panel, with cheap nasty sticky plastic sheet instead of
plexiglass? I've never seen them anywhere except pdp-15 XVM systems)

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'