Re: Sage II

[Tony Duell]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:22 PM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:

> Thanks!
> It looks like you are right, playing a little with the RAM banks,
> finally got me errors, so at least one chip is dead.
> Will take few days, until my replacements arrive, but now I
> have 384k of RAM ;-)
>
> Still crashes, but we will see. The original sockets on the board are cheap,
> sometimes it feels that the chips are barely hanging in there :(

I seem to remember that every chip (even TTL) is socketed in the Sage. In
really nasty sockets.

Personally, I'd buy a few tubes of turned-pin sockets (machined pin?) and
replace the lot. It may take a little time now, but it will save a lot
more looking
for obscure faults!

-tony

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-11-05 14:25, tony duell wrote:



I have one question:

How does it check, how much RAM is in it?
Boot shows 128K, but the board has 512K


Incidentally there is a .zip file on Bitsavers called SageSources. Unpack it,
and in Sources1 look at PROM2.TXT. That is part of the 68000 source
for the boot ROM and contains the RAM test.


Thanks!
It looks like you are right, playing a little with the RAM banks,
finally got me errors, so at least one chip is dead.
Will take few days, until my replacements arrive, but now I
have 384k of RAM ;-)

Still crashes, but we will see. The original sockets on the board are 
cheap, sometimes it feels that the chips are barely hanging in there :(


Cheers!

RE: Sage II

[tony duell]

> I have one question:
> 
> How does it check, how much RAM is in it?
> Boot shows 128K, but the board has 512K

Incidentally there is a .zip file on Bitsavers called SageSources. Unpack it, 
and in Sources1 look at PROM2.TXT. That is part of the 68000 source
for the boot ROM and contains the RAM test.

-tony

RE: Sage II

[tony duell]

> 
> > It appears that there's a DIP shunt block on the CPU board where each shunt
> > corespond to a row of DRAMs. You should check all 4 positions are shorted.
> 
> According to the technical manual:
> 
> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sage/sageandstride/Technical_Manual-1983.pdf
> 
> they should all be open.

Yes, you're right. A jumper is fitted for a non-populated bank. That's quite
clever in that the sort of shunt originally fitted is the type where you break 
the shorting bar with a screwdriver. So it comes with some shorted, if you
upgrade the RAM you can break more (it is assumed you never downgrade
the RAM :-)

> > I think that the power-on test checks the first 128K RAM, then sees if the 
> > top
> > location (? first location) of the next 128K works if so, it tests that 
> > RAM, and
> > repeats 128K at a time to work out how much RAM it has. So you may have
> > defective RAMs in the second 128K.
> 
> Also, the manual write it would tell me, if the test fails with the
> location of the bad Address. But it say 128K, and just boots ...

Ah yes...  But if the location it uses to check if the bank exists at all
fails (perhaps there's one totally bad chip in the bank) then the first
test will fail and the machine will assume the bank does not exist. It
wll not give an error. 

-tony

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-11-04 13:56, tony duell wrote:



Crashed after a while, and only shows 128K (512k is populated),



It appears that there's a DIP shunt block on the CPU board where each shunt
corespond to a row of DRAMs. You should check all 4 positions are shorted.


According to the technical manual:

www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sage/sageandstride/Technical_Manual-1983.pdf

they should all be open.


I think that the power-on test checks the first 128K RAM, then sees if the top
location (? first location) of the next 128K works if so, it tests that RAM, and
repeats 128K at a time to work out how much RAM it has. So you may have
defective RAMs in the second 128K.


Also, the manual write it would tell me, if the test fails with the 
location of the bad Address. But it say 128K, and just boots ...



I wonder if the crashing is due to RAM problems in the first 128K.


I'm not sure my floppy disks are OK.
I'm trying to get a IBM 5170 up to work at the same time, so
will try to write them again ...

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-11-04 15:20, william degnan wrote:

great to hear

Yes, I'm enjoying this little machine ;-)

I have one question:

How does it check, how much RAM is in it?
Boot shows 128K, but the board has 512K




On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:40 PM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:


On 2016-10-30 15:40, william degnan wrote:


On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:44 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:



I also got last week a IBM PC 5170, if I could get it working,

it should be able to write the SAGE II floppies, right?


if it's a 96 tpi drive and you have a newer OS like DOS 6.2 running on it.



OK, I got the IBM 5170 somehow working, got the sage II starting,
copied the system disk (SYSTEM.IMD) to the 5 1/4 disk,
and it boots !!!

Crashed after a while, and only shows 128K (512k is populated),
Monitor is Version 2.1, but it is a start !!!

Thanks to all who helped!

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

great to hear

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:40 PM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:

> On 2016-10-30 15:40, william degnan wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:44 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:
>>
>
> I also got last week a IBM PC 5170, if I could get it working,
>>> it should be able to write the SAGE II floppies, right?
>>>
>> if it's a 96 tpi drive and you have a newer OS like DOS 6.2 running on it.
>>
>
> OK, I got the IBM 5170 somehow working, got the sage II starting,
> copied the system disk (SYSTEM.IMD) to the 5 1/4 disk,
> and it boots !!!
>
> Crashed after a while, and only shows 128K (512k is populated),
> Monitor is Version 2.1, but it is a start !!!
>
> Thanks to all who helped!
>
>

RE: Sage II

[tony duell]

> Crashed after a while, and only shows 128K (512k is populated),
> 

It appears that there's a DIP shunt block on the CPU board where each shunt 
corespond to a row of DRAMs. You should check all 4 positions are shorted.

I think that the power-on test checks the first 128K RAM, then sees if the top 
location (? first location) of the next 128K works if so, it tests that RAM, and
repeats 128K at a time to work out how much RAM it has. So you may have
defective RAMs in the second 128K. 

I wonder if the crashing is due to RAM problems in the first 128K.

-tony

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-30 15:40, william degnan wrote:

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:44 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:



I also got last week a IBM PC 5170, if I could get it working,
it should be able to write the SAGE II floppies, right?

if it's a 96 tpi drive and you have a newer OS like DOS 6.2 running on it.


OK, I got the IBM 5170 somehow working, got the sage II starting,
copied the system disk (SYSTEM.IMD) to the 5 1/4 disk,
and it boots !!!

Crashed after a while, and only shows 128K (512k is populated),
Monitor is Version 2.1, but it is a start !!!

Thanks to all who helped!

Re: Sage II

[Fred Cisin]

I have a disk labeled Sage II Cp/m 68 (000) Kermit.  That is what the OP

was looking for, for his newly acquired Sage II.

On Sun, 30 Oct 2016, william degnan wrote:

I don't have a HD drive attached to my imaging computer, which is the
original point I made when I first replied to your post, asking about the
format.  I was afraid I could not read the disk.

I also got last week a IBM PC 5170, if I could get it working,
it should be able to write the SAGE II floppies, right?

if it's a 96 tpi drive and you have a newer OS like DOS 6.2 running on it.


6.2x is my favorite version of DOS, "the first one where improving 
reliability was a fundamental intent", and 3.20 was the first one that 
consistently had 720K DOS format, however, 
since imaging software would most often be using INT13h, or even direct 
acccess of the FDC, ANY version of DOS should be OK.


Life is sometimes a little easier using a 720K 5.25" drive (such as 
Mitsubishi 4853, Shugart 465, Tandon TM100-4) instead of a 
1.2M 5.25" drive.
If the drive is running 300RPM, then the data transfer rate should be 
250K.
If the drive is running 360RPM (some 1.2M drives), then the data transfer 
rate should be 300K.
But correcting the data transfer rate is all the extra that is needed for 
using a 1.2M for "720K"/"quad density" formats

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:44 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:

> On 2016-10-30 06:56, william degnan wrote:
>
> I have a disk labeled Sage II Cp/m 68 (000) Kermit.  That is what the OP
>> was looking for, for his newly acquired Sage II.
>>
> Great!
>
> We were discussing how to
>> image theae disks, I don't have a 96tpi - capable drive set up on my
>> current disk imaging station otherwise I'd have simply uploaded an .IMD
>> file.  Short term he needs cp/m 68 from somewhere else.
>>
>
> If possible, just send me the .IMD file
>

I don't have a HD drive attached to my imaging computer, which is the
original point I made when I first replied to your post, asking about the
format.  I was afraid I could not read the disk.


>
> I assume OP'er has checked jim battle ' sage II website.
>>
>
> I didn't see it there.
>
> I also got last week a IBM PC 5170, if I could get it working,
> it should be able to write the SAGE II floppies, right?
>
>
if it's a 96 tpi drive and you have a newer OS like DOS 6.2 running on it.

Bill

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-30 06:56, william degnan wrote:


I have a disk labeled Sage II Cp/m 68 (000) Kermit.  That is what the OP
was looking for, for his newly acquired Sage II.

Great!


We were discussing how to
image theae disks, I don't have a 96tpi - capable drive set up on my
current disk imaging station otherwise I'd have simply uploaded an .IMD
file.  Short term he needs cp/m 68 from somewhere else.


If possible, just send me the .IMD file


I assume OP'er has checked jim battle ' sage II website.


I didn't see it there.

I also got last week a IBM PC 5170, if I could get it working,
it should be able to write the SAGE II floppies, right?

Re: Sage II

[allison]

On 10/30/2016 08:56 AM, william degnan wrote:
> On Oct 30, 2016 8:48 AM, "allison"  wrote:
>> On 10/30/2016 04:01 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-29 09:21, allison wrote:
 On 10/29/2016 09:55 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?
 yes and there were more than a few modem/terminal programs.
>>> for CP/M 68K?
>>>
>> When people say CP/M its nearly always in the context of
>> 8080/8085/NSC800/Z80 or maybe 8088/86
>> CP/M-68 was rare but likely there was Kermit for it as all versions of
>> kermit were based on
>> the same effort.   Myself I never used it as I had the alternates like
>> modem-7 or MEX.
>>
>> A basic file transfer program was a trivial thing.
>>
>> Allison
> I have a disk labeled Sage II Cp/m 68 (000) Kermit.  That is what the OP
> was looking for, for his newly acquired Sage II.  We were discussing how to
> image theae disks, I don't have a 96tpi - capable drive set up on my
> current disk imaging station otherwise I'd have simply uploaded an .IMD
> file.  Short term he needs cp/m 68 from somewhere else.
>
> I assume OP'er has checked jim battle ' sage II website.
>
> Bill
>
Much has been imaged and is over in bitsavers.org...  Software stride
and sage.

What it requires is a Real Computer(tm) with disk drives not one of the
latest octa-core Vunderkind M$ PCs.

An older box with a FD55GFV and one of the better 3.5" should handle all
but 8" and hard sector needs.
I keep a Dell 486 powered pizza box for that as it has all the 5.25 and
3.5 capability, for an OS winders3.11
is fine as its really DOS and moderately useful as it runs teledisk
still.   Also the smaller pentium box with
linux as its got that as well.   Either than or a CP/M-80 machine with a
bunch of drives, MY s100 crate
has that from 8 though 3.5.A Qbus pdp-11 with the full compliment of
floppies from RX02, though
5.25 and 3.5" can do it as well.

Allison

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

On Oct 30, 2016 8:48 AM, "allison"  wrote:
>
> On 10/30/2016 04:01 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> > On 2016-10-29 09:21, allison wrote:
> >> On 10/29/2016 09:55 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> >>> Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?
> >> yes and there were more than a few modem/terminal programs.
> >
> > for CP/M 68K?
> >
> When people say CP/M its nearly always in the context of
> 8080/8085/NSC800/Z80 or maybe 8088/86
> CP/M-68 was rare but likely there was Kermit for it as all versions of
> kermit were based on
> the same effort.   Myself I never used it as I had the alternates like
> modem-7 or MEX.
>
> A basic file transfer program was a trivial thing.
>
> Allison

I have a disk labeled Sage II Cp/m 68 (000) Kermit.  That is what the OP
was looking for, for his newly acquired Sage II.  We were discussing how to
image theae disks, I don't have a 96tpi - capable drive set up on my
current disk imaging station otherwise I'd have simply uploaded an .IMD
file.  Short term he needs cp/m 68 from somewhere else.

I assume OP'er has checked jim battle ' sage II website.

Bill

Re: Sage II

[allison]

On 10/30/2016 04:01 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> On 2016-10-29 09:21, allison wrote:
>> On 10/29/2016 09:55 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
>>> Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?
>> yes and there were more than a few modem/terminal programs.
>
> for CP/M 68K?
>
When people say CP/M its nearly always in the context of
8080/8085/NSC800/Z80 or maybe 8088/86
CP/M-68 was rare but likely there was Kermit for it as all versions of
kermit were based on
the same effort.   Myself I never used it as I had the alternates like
modem-7 or MEX.

A basic file transfer program was a trivial thing.

Allison

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-29 09:21, allison wrote:

On 10/29/2016 09:55 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:

Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?

yes and there were more than a few modem/terminal programs.


for CP/M 68K?

Re: Sage II

[allison]

On 10/29/2016 09:55 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> On 2016-10-29 06:32, william degnan wrote:
>> Quick question...
>
> I have one for you too ;-)
>
> Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?
yes and there were more than a few modem/terminal programs.

Allison
>
> Cheers
>
>

Re: Sage II

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/29/2016 05:29 PM, emanuel stiebler wrote:

> Is it worth it, to get TEAC 55 for them as replacement? The ones I
> have, have broken fronts ...


If you need jumper settings for the 55FG, I've got them.

--Chuck

Re: Sage II

[Fred Cisin]

IIRC, TEC FB-504 is 80 track double density.
IIRC, the Teac 80track double density is the FD55F
(55G is 1.2M, 55FG is intended to be strappable as either)

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, emanuel stiebler wrote:

TEC, sorry !
Ok, so both seems to be 80 track ...

Those should be imagable (is that the right word?) using a PC with 1.2M.


Is it worth it, to get TEAC 55 for them as replacement?
The ones I have, have broken fronts ...


If they work OK, I wouldn't worry about the bezel, although a broken bezel 
is a sign that they haven't been treated gently.


Teac 55F would be the ideal Teac to use.
Teac55FG would work, but I don't know the jumpers

Shugart/Matsushita/etc. 465
For full-height, Tandon Tm100-4

It shouldn't much matter which brand, but until it's working, I'd avoid 
adding in any more variables.

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-29 18:05, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, emanuel stiebler wrote:

So both are 5.25", half height.
one is a mitsubishi M4853-342MG,


IIRC, that's a 80track double density drive.  (aka "720K", aka "quad
density")
(the 4854 is the 1.2M version)
IIRC, the 4853 was used in the Tandy 2000, so that might be a good place
to find the service manual if you need it.



the other TEAC FB-504

TEAC, or TEC?


TEC, sorry !


IIRC, TEC FB-504 is 80 track double density.
IIRC, the Teac 80track double density is the FD55F
(55G is 1.2M, 55FG is intended to be strappable as either)


Ok, so both seems to be 80 track ...


Those should be imagable (is that the right word?) using a PC with 1.2M.


Is it worth it, to get TEAC 55 for them as replacement?
The ones I have, have broken fronts ...

Re: Sage II

[Fred Cisin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, william degnan wrote:

Ok...I'll try it tomorrow and post, you can let me know how it goes.  I'll
prob figure it out when I analyze the disks using the tools, just not sure
if being pascal they have any weirdness


not that would matter for imaging.
But, of course p-system was a whole different directory structure.
Good news, though, is that if you ever have to manually put sectors 
together, . . . is that p-system files are alway contiguous!
P-system would not let you put part of a file in one space on the disk and 
the rest in another space.  They had a p-system utility called "CRUNCH" to 
defragment the disk.  %Deity help you if it crashed while THAT was trying 
to run!

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

IMD can't determine the interleave.  I am using a DD drive, not HD.
According to this page
http://www.thebattles.net/sage/
they're 96TPI - I don't have a system set up for this at the moment.  I
have the kermit disk for the Sage II though.  My B drive has an 8" drive
that thinks it's a 720K drive or whatever I did to make it work.
b

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 7:02 PM, william degnan 
wrote:

> Ok...I'll try it tomorrow and post, you can let me know how it goes.  I'll
> prob figure it out when I analyze the disks using the tools, just not sure
> if being pascal they have any weirdness
>
> Bill Degnan
> twitter: billdeg
> vintagecomputer.net
> On Oct 29, 2016 5:57 PM, "Chuck Guzis"  wrote:
>
>> I don't know if this applies to the SAGE II or not, but 22DISK has two
>> SAGE IV definitions, for 48 tpi and for 96 tpi diskettes, as derived
>> from samples that I have.
>>
>> --Chuck
>>
>>

Re: Sage II

[Fred Cisin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I don't know if this applies to the SAGE II or not, but 22DISK has two
SAGE IV definitions, for 48 tpi and for 96 tpi diskettes, as derived
from samples that I have.


The Sage IV sample disks formats in XenoCopy were a CP/M type file 
system, in 48tpi and 96tpi.  We also did a Sage 2 P-system format (but 
only the 96tpi)

I have no idea about Sage II, v Sage IV differences.

Re: Sage II

[Fred Cisin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, emanuel stiebler wrote:

So both are 5.25", half height.
one is a mitsubishi M4853-342MG,


IIRC, that's a 80track double density drive.  (aka "720K", aka "quad density")
(the 4854 is the 1.2M version)
IIRC, the 4853 was used in the Tandy 2000, so that might be a good place 
to find the service manual if you need it.




the other TEAC FB-504

TEAC, or TEC?
IIRC, TEC FB-504 is 80 track double density.
IIRC, the Teac 80track double density is the FD55F
(55G is 1.2M, 55FG is intended to be strappable as either)


Those should be imagable (is that the right word?) using a PC with 1.2M.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

Ok...I'll try it tomorrow and post, you can let me know how it goes.  I'll
prob figure it out when I analyze the disks using the tools, just not sure
if being pascal they have any weirdness

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Oct 29, 2016 5:57 PM, "Chuck Guzis"  wrote:

> I don't know if this applies to the SAGE II or not, but 22DISK has two
> SAGE IV definitions, for 48 tpi and for 96 tpi diskettes, as derived
> from samples that I have.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: Sage II

[Chuck Guzis]

I don't know if this applies to the SAGE II or not, but 22DISK has two
SAGE IV definitions, for 48 tpi and for 96 tpi diskettes, as derived
from samples that I have.

--Chuck

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-29 15:08, william degnan wrote:

On Oct 29, 2016 4:53 PM, "Fred Cisin"  wrote:



Of course, but I just wanted to do this guy a favor and image the disks,


And he really appreciates that!!!


I did not want to set up my system and get all into it and whether I have 80
or 40 track drives, and what image disk settings to use..busy week.


I finally got to the system,
and bend it into shape enough, to get the drives out.

So both are 5.25", half height.
one is a mitsubishi M4853-342MG,
the other TEAC FB-504

Sorry it took me so long to answer the questions ...

Re: Sage II

[Pete Turnbull]

On 29/10/2016 22:08, william degnan wrote:

Of course, but I just wanted to do this guy a favor and image the disks, I
did not want to set up my system and get all into it and whether I have 80
or 40 track drives, and what image disk settings to use..busy week.


If it's any help, all four Sage IIs I've seen had half-height Mitsubishi 
80-track DS drives, including the one I have.  But that's really a 
single datum point, as three came from the same place at about the same 
time, and I suspect the fourth may have come from the same original 
supplier.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

RE: Sage II

[william degnan]

On Oct 29, 2016 4:53 PM, "Fred Cisin"  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, tony duell wrote:
>>
>> As you have the machine, and it boots, check the DIP switch settings.
One of the switches is used to indicate if the boot drive is 40 or 80
cylinder.
>
>
> and the model number(s) of the drives will enable looking up hints as the
specs (although some TM100-4M (100tpi) drives were labelled "TM100-4"
(96tpi)).  Some of my drives ended up with labels on the faceplates.
>
> For CP/M 2.x, CP/M-68K run  STAT DSK:
> For CP/M 3.0/"PLUS" IIRC,   SHOW DRIVE
> That'll give you some hints of the drive and parameters.
>
>

Of course, but I just wanted to do this guy a favor and image the disks, I
did not want to set up my system and get all into it and whether I have 80
or 40 track drives, and what image disk settings to use..busy week.

RE: Sage II

[Fred Cisin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016, tony duell wrote:
As you have the machine, and it boots, check the DIP switch settings. 
One of the switches is used to indicate if the boot drive is 40 or 80 
cylinder.


and the model number(s) of the drives will enable looking up hints as the 
specs (although some TM100-4M (100tpi) drives were labelled "TM100-4" 
(96tpi)).  Some of my drives ended up with labels on the faceplates.


For CP/M 2.x, CP/M-68K run  STAT DSK:
For CP/M 3.0/"PLUS" IIRC,   SHOW DRIVE
That'll give you some hints of the drive and parameters.


There should be a KERMIT available, although machine specific overlay 
might not be.  Getting it onto the machine is another minor project.

RE: Sage II

[tony duell]

> 
> 
>To know for sure, unless my disks are labeled I will have to set the system
> up and test each disk, to do it right.  My Sage II is here:

Oh, you're looking for a CP/M-68K kermit. CP/M on its own normally
refers to the 8080/Z80 OS. I wondered if you were looking for kermit 
for some other CP/M machine to use a device to transfer Sage files
onto.

I believe the Sage was intitially intended to run the UCSD P-system. There
is at least one Kermit written in Pascal that could probable be got to run
under that.

> http://vintagecomputer.net/sage/SageII/

As you have the machine, and it boots, check the DIP switch settings. One
of the switches is used to indicate if the boot drive is 40 or 80 cylinder. 

-tony

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 11:58 AM, tony duell 
wrote:

> > > Quick question...
> >
> > I have one for you too ;-)
> >
> > Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?
>
>
> Acrodding to this page  :
>
> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cpm.html
>
> there is.
>
> -tony
>


To know for sure, unless my disks are labeled I will have to set the system
up and test each disk, to do it right.  My Sage II is here:
http://vintagecomputer.net/sage/SageII/

looks like one of the disk drives was swapped out, not sure if I did that
or the previous owner.

one of the photos has a screen shot of a directory from CP/M, no kermit on
that particular disk but certainly I assume Kermit was available for a Sage
with CP/M.  Not sure if I have it.

Bill

RE: Sage II

[tony duell]

> > Quick question...
> 
> I have one for you too ;-)
> 
> Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?


Acrodding to this page  :

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cpm.html

there is.

-tony

RE: Sage II

[tony duell]

> Quick question...I am setting up disks to be imaged from various requests
> including yours.  Do you know the tracks/sectors of the sage disks, off
> hand?  I don't necessarily plan to set up my sage to test the disks, just
> image the disks, to save time if I knew what settings to use it will
> increase the chances I get it right the first time.

The Sage II service manual (it's on the web somewhere, I forget where
I got it from) impilies that some machines have 40 cylinder drives, others
have 80 cylnder drives. I think it is normal to have 2 drives of the same
type, but said service manual implies that a machine with one of each
type is useful for converting disks. 

So they could be either 40 or 80 cylinder.  In both cases : 

Double sided (2 heads)
8 sectors/track
512 bytes/sector
Normal MFM double density

(Of course normal, not high density, data rate). 

I would think a PC disk controller with the appropriate drives could read
them.

-tony

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-29 06:32, william degnan wrote:

Quick question...


I have one for you too ;-)

Was there a version of kermit for CP/M ?

Cheers

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-29 06:32, william degnan wrote:

Quick question...I am setting up disks to be imaged from various requests
including yours.  Do you know the tracks/sectors of the sage disks, off
hand?


Sorry, I got my machine finally home two days ago.
During transport, it was really bend out of shape, so
I will try to check, during the day. The sticker on the outside says 
something like "80 track", but the drives are not original anymore.
(I have two half height 5.25" in it, the early models should have full 
height)



I don't necessarily plan to set up my sage to test the disks, just
image the disks, to save time if I knew what settings to use it will
increase the chances I get it right the first time.


Thanks again!

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

Quick question...I am setting up disks to be imaged from various requests
including yours.  Do you know the tracks/sectors of the sage disks, off
hand?  I don't necessarily plan to set up my sage to test the disks, just
image the disks, to save time if I knew what settings to use it will
increase the chances I get it right the first time.
Thanks..

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Oct 14, 2016 3:48 AM, "emanuel stiebler"  wrote:

> On 2016-10-13 20:00, william degnan wrote:
>
> I may have some software that is missing from that site, if so I will image
>> and upload  will let you know
>>
>
> Thanks!
>
>

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-13 20:00, william degnan wrote:


I may have some software that is missing from that site, if so I will image
and upload  will let you know


Thanks!

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:56 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:

> On 2016-10-13 17:16, william degnan wrote:
>
> Did you get this from Ebay?
>>
>
> Nope, just waited few years until it popped up ;-)
>
> http://www.thebattles.net/sage/
>>
>
> Yes, I know that one. I also got some documentation with it,
> checked already if it is all on the web and it is.
>
> Weirdly, some documents have a different first page, but the rest is the
> same ...
>
>
I may have some software that is missing from that site, if so I will image
and upload  will let you know
bill

Re: Sage II

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-13 17:16, william degnan wrote:


Did you get this from Ebay?


Nope, just waited few years until it popped up ;-)


http://www.thebattles.net/sage/


Yes, I know that one. I also got some documentation with it,
checked already if it is all on the web and it is.

Weirdly, some documents have a different first page, but the rest is the 
same ...

Re: Sage II

[william degnan]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:02 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:

> Hi all,
> finally found myself a SAGE II.
> (no software)
>
> Anybody could help me out with the floppies for it?
>
> Was there a kermit version for it?
>
> Cheers & thanks
>

Did you get this from Ebay?

http://www.thebattles.net/sage/