Re: cfm vs. php?
I heard that as well, at SGI. (Of course, this was MANY moons ago.) On 3/27/06, Jim Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: cfm vs. php? Exactly. To quote Heinlein, The answer to any question that begins with 'Why don't they' is invariably 'Money'. And this works on both sides of the spectrum. I've been told more than once in my company that CF isn't expensive enough to be an enterprise-capable product. They'd rather spend $70,000 on WebSphere. Jim Davis -- === Raymond Camden, Director of Development for Mindseye, Inc (www.mindseye.com) Member of Team Macromedia (http://www.macromedia.com/go/teammacromedia) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog : ray.camdenfamily.com Yahoo IM : cfjedimaster My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236314 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
Costwise, you can also get CFML through BlueDragon: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/features.cfm The minimum server is still free, another reason to go CFML instead of PHP. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236316 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
It's only actually cheaper for single CPU servers though. So the benefit of BlueDragon over CFMX isn't really cost, but rather it's feature set and support. Russ -Original Message- From: Sung Woo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 March 2006 14:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: cfm vs. php? Costwise, you can also get CFML through BlueDragon: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/features.cfm The minimum server is still free, another reason to go CFML instead of PHP. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236317 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
Is that right? I thought CPU count only comes into account for .NET or J2EE versions. For the plain ol' server version, I thought it was no cost? http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/pricing.cfm It's only actually cheaper for single CPU servers though. So the benefit of BlueDragon over CFMX isn't really cost, but rather it's feature set and support. Russ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236318 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
Amanda, I don't recall seeing anywhere in this thread whether or not your company will be doing its own hosting or not...but if you outsource your hosting, then it doesn't have to cost very much at all to develop using CF, depending on what tools your developers opt to use. The developer version of CF server is free, so that's not a monetary issue; as far as IDEs go, Dreamweaver is pretty commonly used, but lately the craze has been the open source IDE Eclipse, with a CF plugin (CFEclipse) as the IDE of choice. I could be wrong on my facts (if so, other please chime in), but developing apps in CF doesn't have to cost very much AT ALL, as long as you're willing to make a few small compromises. You could outsource your hosting for anywhere from $15 to $50 a month, use open source development IDEs for free, and utilize the developer version of CF Server also for free. I'd say that's very much in the ballpark with PHP when it comes to costs, with all the beauty and RAD of CF. Just my opinion, coming from the perspective of someone who didn't have the luxury of the ideal environment when i was first learning CF. will admit upfront: i haven't a clue about CF. which is why i'm here. i'm trying to design an application where: user fills out some forms (submits) then their input is gathered + spit back out in a flash movie i've seen this accomplished in both .php and .cfm but don't know what the difference is between the two or the PROS/CONS of each. can someone help me figure it out?? many many thanks! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236319 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? I'll echo the it's about money statements, but follow up with a caveat. If your needs are simple enough that shared hosting would work (you don't need a colocated server all to yourself), CF can be pretty cheap. You can download a free local development copy of CF server for all your developers. Then for production, you use one of the many hosting companies that offers ColdFusion. However, I have noticed that ColdFusion shared hosting is a bit more expensive than PHP ($5-$10/month). If you want good recommendations on a host, search this list's archives for 'hosting' and you'll find tons of good advice. --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236321 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html Whomever you choose, I do second Jacob's suggestion of shared hosting. It's the rare company that really needs their own server. Shared hosting can be extremely economical since you don't have to support the machine, purchase a CF license and can download a free text editor with CF hooks from the internet. It's possible to develop in CF for NOTHING, not counting the cost of hosting. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? I'll echo the it's about money statements, but follow up with a caveat. If your needs are simple enough that shared hosting would work (you don't need a colocated server all to yourself), CF can be pretty cheap. You can download a free local development copy of CF server for all your developers. Then for production, you use one of the many hosting companies that offers ColdFusion. However, I have noticed that ColdFusion shared hosting is a bit more expensive than PHP ($5-$10/month). If you want good recommendations on a host, search this list's archives for 'hosting' and you'll find tons of good advice. --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236322 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
I'm a Linux snob when it comes to hosting. Do those companies offer Linux/CF? -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236323 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
ICGLink is Linux based, Gearhost I think is Windows, but I can't recall. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? I'm a Linux snob when it comes to hosting. Do those companies offer Linux/CF? -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236324 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
ICG does Linux? Darnit, I just switched to HMS and I'd not look forward to another move... :\ -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:50 AM ICGLink is Linux based, Gearhost I think is Windows, but I can't recall. -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? I'm a Linux snob when it comes to hosting. Do those companies offer Linux/CF? -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236326 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
Yep...we do Linux. Right now we only have CFMX. We're discussing the move to CF7 but I would say that it would be at least 4-6 months away. Our pricing is pretty reasonable, not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either. The good thing about our setup though is that we have a cluster of servers for load-balancing instead of single servers with scads of sites on each. Keep us in mind whe !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? ICG does Linux? Darnit, I just switched to HMS and I'd not look forward to another move... :\ -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:50 AM ICGLink is Linux based, Gearhost I think is Windows, but I can't recall. -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? I'm a Linux snob when it comes to hosting. Do those companies offer Linux/CF? -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236328 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
On Tuesday 28 March 2006 06:48, Jim Davis wrote: And this works on both sides of the spectrum. I've been told more than once in my company that CF isn't expensive enough to be an enterprise-capable product. Add Flex to the purchase order then :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236330 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
Let me give you my own personal experience, it might help. 6 years ago, I was the manager of a small (5 person) web design group at a medium-sized software company. At the time, I had about equal experience with ASP and CF. My team was great -- young, enthusiastic, willing to learn...but all they knew was HTML (except for one, who could modify a .pl mailer script and that was about it). The challenge? I was tasked with converting our then-antiquated web site from static HTML to something dynamic and hopefully content-managed. I discussed the chellenges facing us with my team, and presented the viable options - jsp, php, asp, cf. We looked at code examples from each together and narrowed the pack down to ASP (because of its market relevance) and CF (because it was familiar to a person who knew HTML with an understanding of the words if and else :) I took my two most enthusiastic and promising individuals and gave them a one-day coding challenge; I would create a database, they would need to create interfaces that would insert, update, delete, and display that data. One would use ASP, the other would use CF. For the record, I put the person who was probably the smarter of the two on the ASP project, and I bought each of them a good book to study the night before so they could have some familiarity. We started at 9AM the next day. The person who was using CF finished the task in three hours; the person who was using ASP was still working on it at 4:30PM. The next day, ASP guy came in and said screw it, I want to try this with CF. He completed the task in about 2.5 hours. As a group, we made the decision then and there to go with CF. Over the next several weeks, I held daily brown bag lunch sessions where we sat in a conference room and I went over best practices, some SQL basics, and went into some CF intricacies. Within a couple of months, I felt that the entire team was proficient in CF, with one or two showing true talent. We never looked back from there. Pete On 3/28/06, amanda bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thanks eric - this helps. while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? scenario: i'm a designer trying to steer our team in a good direction but i stop at HTML. to me, the applications i've seen done in PHP aren't as elegant (?) as similar ones in CFM. (PHP has that e-commerce aftertaste) so i can feel realatively OK making a recommendation based on an internet forum exchange :) --- if CF is so perfect, why aren't more people using it? i understand why coders must love it, but are users as happy? it is buggy? slow? thanks so much best, amanda On 3/27/06, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say mostly the coding time. CF is close to what I would call a rapid application development tool for the web. I also find it to be close to an OOP approach to programming than PHP. The code itself is less intensive (though just as powerful) that PHP. It cost more, but so does any quality tool. I am not an expert in PHP, but if it is anything like ASP, you would have to spend (either in actual dollars or in programming time) the same amount that CF costs to get it to the same functional level as CF is out of the box. The extensibility of CF is amazing. Ben Forta, who is the CF Product Evangelist and General God of CF, put it best, CF is as extensible as your programmers. If you can write it in a language that produces a dll, you can make it into a CF custom tag. You also have the advantage for your app, of real tight integration with flash and other macromedia and soon...adobe technologies. The language itself, since it is tag based is real easy to learn. It's outward similarity to HTML gives it a familiar feel that makes learning a snap. Or those that can afford it, Fast Track to CF, which is a 3 day course, will take someone with no knowledge of CF and in 3 days give them the ability to write complex web apps with it. I consider that a big huge mark on the pro side hehehe. I am a bit biased though ;-) Eric -Original Message- From: amanda bradshaw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 21:14 To: CF-Talk Subject: cfm vs. php? will admit upfront: i haven't a clue about CF. which is why i'm here. i'm trying to design an application where: user fills out some forms (submits) then their input is gathered + spit back out in a flash movie i've seen this accomplished in both .php and .cfm but don't know what the difference is between the two or the PROS/CONS of each. can someone help me figure it out?? many many thanks! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236340 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http
Re: cfm vs. php?
Man... How does one get to work on your team, Pete? :) Let me give you my own personal experience, it might help. 6 years ago, I was the manager of a small (5 person) web design group at a medium-sized software company. At the time, I had about equal experience with ASP and CF. My team was great -- young, enthusiastic, willing to learn...but all they knew was HTML (except for one, who could modify a .pl mailer script and that was about it). The challenge? I was tasked with converting our then-antiquated web site from static HTML to something dynamic and hopefully content-managed. I discussed the chellenges facing us with my team, and presented the viable options - jsp, php, asp, cf. We looked at code examples from each together and narrowed the pack down to ASP (because of its market relevance) and CF (because it was familiar to a person who knew HTML with an understanding of the words if and else :) I took my two most enthusiastic and promising individuals and gave them a one-day coding challenge; I would create a database, they would need to create interfaces that would insert, update, delete, and display that data. One would use ASP, the other would use CF. For the record, I put the person who was probably the smarter of the two on the ASP project, and I bought each of them a good book to study the night before so they could have some familiarity. We started at 9AM the next day. The person who was using CF finished the task in three hours; the person who was using ASP was still working on it at 4:30PM. The next day, ASP guy came in and said screw it, I want to try this with CF. He completed the task in about 2.5 hours. As a group, we made the decision then and there to go with CF. Over the next several weeks, I held daily brown bag lunch sessions where we sat in a conference room and I went over best practices, some SQL basics, and went into some CF intricacies. Within a couple of months, I felt that the entire team was proficient in CF, with one or two showing true talent. We never looked back from there. Pete s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236348 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
I'll chime in briefly as I work my day job with CF and work the nights/weekends with PHP. The only major difference I've found thus far is lower level access in PHP is easier than CF. This is sometimes a blessing and other times a curse. Having to write 50 lines of code to access a DB properly can get quite tiresome, but handling binary files, working with sockets, building a custom encryption library, etc. is a lot easier with PHP. It's kind of ironic that you truly need to know both languages to choose the one that best suits you. All in all, I think both are great and enjoy using both... Cheers, Kevin -Original Message- From: Pete Ruckelshaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: cfm vs. php? Let me give you my own personal experience, it might help. 6 years ago, I was the manager of a small (5 person) web design group at a medium-sized software company. At the time, I had about equal experience with ASP and CF. My team was great -- young, enthusiastic, willing to learn...but all they knew was HTML (except for one, who could modify a .pl mailer script and that was about it). The challenge? I was tasked with converting our then-antiquated web site from static HTML to something dynamic and hopefully content-managed. I discussed the chellenges facing us with my team, and presented the viable options - jsp, php, asp, cf. We looked at code examples from each together and narrowed the pack down to ASP (because of its market relevance) and CF (because it was familiar to a person who knew HTML with an understanding of the words if and else :) I took my two most enthusiastic and promising individuals and gave them a one-day coding challenge; I would create a database, they would need to create interfaces that would insert, update, delete, and display that data. One would use ASP, the other would use CF. For the record, I put the person who was probably the smarter of the two on the ASP project, and I bought each of them a good book to study the night before so they could have some familiarity. We started at 9AM the next day. The person who was using CF finished the task in three hours; the person who was using ASP was still working on it at 4:30PM. The next day, ASP guy came in and said screw it, I want to try this with CF. He completed the task in about 2.5 hours. As a group, we made the decision then and there to go with CF. Over the next several weeks, I held daily brown bag lunch sessions where we sat in a conference room and I went over best practices, some SQL basics, and went into some CF intricacies. Within a couple of months, I felt that the entire team was proficient in CF, with one or two showing true talent. We never looked back from there. Pete On 3/28/06, amanda bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thanks eric - this helps. while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? scenario: i'm a designer trying to steer our team in a good direction but i stop at HTML. to me, the applications i've seen done in PHP aren't as elegant (?) as similar ones in CFM. (PHP has that e-commerce aftertaste) so i can feel realatively OK making a recommendation based on an internet forum exchange :) --- if CF is so perfect, why aren't more people using it? i understand why coders must love it, but are users as happy? it is buggy? slow? thanks so much best, amanda On 3/27/06, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say mostly the coding time. CF is close to what I would call a rapid application development tool for the web. I also find it to be close to an OOP approach to programming than PHP. The code itself is less intensive (though just as powerful) that PHP. It cost more, but so does any quality tool. I am not an expert in PHP, but if it is anything like ASP, you would have to spend (either in actual dollars or in programming time) the same amount that CF costs to get it to the same functional level as CF is out of the box. The extensibility of CF is amazing. Ben Forta, who is the CF Product Evangelist and General God of CF, put it best, CF is as extensible as your programmers. If you can write it in a language that produces a dll, you can make it into a CF custom tag. You also have the advantage for your app, of real tight integration with flash and other macromedia and soon...adobe technologies. The language itself, since it is tag based is real easy to learn. It's outward similarity to HTML gives it a familiar feel that makes learning a snap. Or those that can afford it, Fast Track to CF, which is a 3 day course, will take someone with no knowledge of CF and in 3 days give them the ability to write complex web apps with it. I consider that a big huge mark on the pro side hehehe. I am a bit biased though ;-) Eric -Original Message- From: amanda bradshaw
Re: cfm vs. php?
Well, first you need to build a time machine...I'm working as an independent contractor and am almost done a career change to teaching high school English...got my certification, all I need now is a full-time teaching gig. In the meantime, I sub when time allows. Now, of course, if someone wants to bribe me away from this career change, I'm all ears :P, but the realist in me knows that I'll never be a CIO and there aren't so many jobs out there for 39 year old CF developers. Pete On 3/28/06, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man... How does one get to work on your team, Pete? :) Let me give you my own personal experience, it might help. 6 years ago, I was the manager of a small (5 person) web design group at a medium-sized software company. At the time, I had about equal experience with ASP and CF. My team was great -- young, enthusiastic, willing to learn...but all they knew was HTML (except for one, who could modify a .pl mailer script and that was about it). The challenge? I was tasked with converting our then-antiquated web site from static HTML to something dynamic and hopefully content-managed. I discussed the chellenges facing us with my team, and presented the viable options - jsp, php, asp, cf. We looked at code examples from each together and narrowed the pack down to ASP (because of its market relevance) and CF (because it was familiar to a person who knew HTML with an understanding of the words if and else :) I took my two most enthusiastic and promising individuals and gave them a one-day coding challenge; I would create a database, they would need to create interfaces that would insert, update, delete, and display that data. One would use ASP, the other would use CF. For the record, I put the person who was probably the smarter of the two on the ASP project, and I bought each of them a good book to study the night before so they could have some familiarity. We started at 9AM the next day. The person who was using CF finished the task in three hours; the person who was using ASP was still working on it at 4:30PM. The next day, ASP guy came in and said screw it, I want to try this with CF. He completed the task in about 2.5 hours. As a group, we made the decision then and there to go with CF. Over the next several weeks, I held daily brown bag lunch sessions where we sat in a conference room and I went over best practices, some SQL basics, and went into some CF intricacies. Within a couple of months, I felt that the entire team was proficient in CF, with one or two showing true talent. We never looked back from there. Pete s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236358 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
I believe uplinkearth.com offers Linux hosting for CF...but I am not sure as I prefer windows ;-) I pay $105 quarterly for my hosting. That with MySQL, email, a pretty good control panel (don't remember which one offhand). Though I do use PHPAdmin to manage MySQL...it just easier since I just have to unload the package on the server...and I am familiar with it. I have been with uplinkearth for about 3 years now and I love them...great service, rarely ever goes down. If I have a problem, their customer support is pretty quick in dealing with the issue. Eric -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 28 March 2006 09:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? I'm a Linux snob when it comes to hosting. Do those companies offer Linux/CF? -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236374 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
For cheap reliable CF hosting you can't beat www.hostingfuse.com at $100AUD/year :) Get in now while the exchange rates are good and you will be paying about $70USD On 3/29/06, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe uplinkearth.com offers Linux hosting for CF...but I am not sure as I prefer windows ;-) I pay $105 quarterly for my hosting. That with MySQL, email, a pretty good control panel (don't remember which one offhand). Though I do use PHPAdmin to manage MySQL...it just easier since I just have to unload the package on the server...and I am familiar with it. I have been with uplinkearth for about 3 years now and I love them...great service, rarely ever goes down. If I have a problem, their customer support is pretty quick in dealing with the issue. Eric -Original Message- From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 28 March 2006 09:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: cfm vs. php? I'm a Linux snob when it comes to hosting. Do those companies offer Linux/CF? -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM While you're talking about hosting Jacob, I'd suggest either Gearhost.com (CF hosting as low as $8.95, with mySQL included for as low as $16.95). I used them for almost 2 years and they were great. Their Control panel is quite good as well. Alternately, my company, ICGLink, offers CF hosting for as low as $10 per month: http://www.icglink.net/features.html This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236377 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
cfm vs. php?
will admit upfront: i haven't a clue about CF. which is why i'm here. i'm trying to design an application where: user fills out some forms (submits) then their input is gathered + spit back out in a flash movie i've seen this accomplished in both .php and .cfm but don't know what the difference is between the two or the PROS/CONS of each. can someone help me figure it out?? many many thanks! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236290 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
thanks eric - this helps. while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? scenario: i'm a designer trying to steer our team in a good direction but i stop at HTML. to me, the applications i've seen done in PHP aren't as elegant (?) as similar ones in CFM. (PHP has that e-commerce aftertaste) so i can feel realatively OK making a recommendation based on an internet forum exchange :) --- if CF is so perfect, why aren't more people using it? i understand why coders must love it, but are users as happy? it is buggy? slow? thanks so much best, amanda On 3/27/06, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say mostly the coding time. CF is close to what I would call a rapid application development tool for the web. I also find it to be close to an OOP approach to programming than PHP. The code itself is less intensive (though just as powerful) that PHP. It cost more, but so does any quality tool. I am not an expert in PHP, but if it is anything like ASP, you would have to spend (either in actual dollars or in programming time) the same amount that CF costs to get it to the same functional level as CF is out of the box. The extensibility of CF is amazing. Ben Forta, who is the CF Product Evangelist and General God of CF, put it best, CF is as extensible as your programmers. If you can write it in a language that produces a dll, you can make it into a CF custom tag. You also have the advantage for your app, of real tight integration with flash and other macromedia and soon...adobe technologies. The language itself, since it is tag based is real easy to learn. It's outward similarity to HTML gives it a familiar feel that makes learning a snap. Or those that can afford it, Fast Track to CF, which is a 3 day course, will take someone with no knowledge of CF and in 3 days give them the ability to write complex web apps with it. I consider that a big huge mark on the pro side hehehe. I am a bit biased though ;-) Eric -Original Message- From: amanda bradshaw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 21:14 To: CF-Talk Subject: cfm vs. php? will admit upfront: i haven't a clue about CF. which is why i'm here. i'm trying to design an application where: user fills out some forms (submits) then their input is gathered + spit back out in a flash movie i've seen this accomplished in both .php and .cfm but don't know what the difference is between the two or the PROS/CONS of each. can someone help me figure it out?? many many thanks! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236293 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
I think its a question of money. PHP is free, and most hosting services offer it. thanks eric - this helps. while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? scenario: i'm a designer trying to steer our team in a good direction but i stop at HTML. to me, the applications i've seen done in PHP aren't as elegant (?) as similar ones in CFM. (PHP has that e-commerce aftertaste) so i can feel realatively OK making a recommendation based on an internet forum exchange :) --- if CF is so perfect, why aren't more people using it? i understand why coders must love it, but are users as happy? it is buggy? slow? thanks so much best, amanda On 3/27/06, Eric Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236294 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
Exactly. To quote Heinlein, The answer to any question that begins with 'Why don't they' is invariably 'Money'. On 3/28/06, j s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its a question of money. PHP is free, and most hosting services offer it. thanks eric - this helps. while i now clearly see the CF light...there's gotta be a darkside lurking somewhere. yeah? maybe just a little bitty one? -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236295 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfm vs. php?
-Original Message- From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: cfm vs. php? Exactly. To quote Heinlein, The answer to any question that begins with 'Why don't they' is invariably 'Money'. And this works on both sides of the spectrum. I've been told more than once in my company that CF isn't expensive enough to be an enterprise-capable product. They'd rather spend $70,000 on WebSphere. Jim Davis ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236297 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: cfm vs. php?
Hey, they can buy Websphere and then deploy CF Enterprise in it - that makes it even more expensive so it has to be even better! On 3/28/06, Jim Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: cfm vs. php? Exactly. To quote Heinlein, The answer to any question that begins with 'Why don't they' is invariably 'Money'. And this works on both sides of the spectrum. I've been told more than once in my company that CF isn't expensive enough to be an enterprise-capable product. They'd rather spend $70,000 on WebSphere. -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:236298 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
