[Clamav-users] Re: 432 Mail filters temporarily unavailable help
Sunet Sysadmin wrote: We have a courier mail server. Running with courier:: filter with modules ClamAV(unix socket), SA and SPF. Every thing works good. But all of a sudden i get this error. submit: Transport endpoint is not connected Nov 5 04:03:55 jupiter courieresmtpd: error,relay=:::66.63.190.205,from=[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 432 Mail filters temporarily unavailable. When this error occurs checked if the unix socket is open but doesn't seems to be open. Once i restart Clamd, Courier it starts working again. Can any one please help me with this or point me to the right direction. I am the author of Courier::Filter. What Unix socket are you talking about seemingly not being open? That of Courier::Filter, or that of clamd? pgplICIMloYao.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] To ClamAV Developers: donation question
Nigel Horne wrote: The simplest way for company is to buy a CD via our site at cafepress (see http://www.cafepress.com/clamav.20597653). Okay, that's a pretty cool idea. Regards, Ralph pgphEKTM99qYM.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] let's all make a regular domation to ClamAV
Dennis Peterson wrote: Jim Maul wrote: Sergei Lavrov wrote: Then how about just donating $20 ?? Personally? Sure - I have made past personal donations to various groups. I was speaking about a commerical donation which is difficult when there is no paperwork submitted. It's a barrier for us, too. But an invoice implies a contract (performance, term of service, payment schedule/terms, termination, blah blah) and all contracts go through contract negotiation and renewal. It is a legal commercial document that can and will be used in court. It's not impossible to get there but somebody'd better lawyer up. True. But we - on the other hand - are not allowed to make donations, so it really is a problem getting someone in Manglement to give some money to free software projects, even if we're using the software. Cheers, Ralph pgpR9wEaP884u.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
[Clamav-users] Freshclam cwd error in 0.90rc2
Hi, I just upgraded from 0.88.2 to 0.90rc2 to test out the latest release. (OS is Solaris 8). Everything seems to be working well except I am getting errors logged by freshclam like this: Nov 9 12:28:05 shadowfax freshclam[21654]: [ID 702911 local6.error] getpatch: Can't get path of current working directory Nov 9 12:28:05 shadowfax freshclam[21654]: [ID 702911 local6.warning] Removing incremental directory daily.inc Nov 9 12:28:05 shadowfax freshclam[21654]: [ID 702911 local6.warning] Incremental update failed, downloading complete database I'm running freshclam with just the -d switch, and it is starting up from an rc script (which runs as root of course). The user I am using for all the clamav processes is smmsp as this fits in well with sendmail. My databases are in /usr/local/share/clamav which is owned by smmsp: shadowfax:root:89:clamav:# ls -al /usr/local/share/clamav total 14054 drwxrwxr-x 2 smmspsmmsp 2048 Nov 9 12:28 ./ drwxr-x--x 13 root other512 May 11 2006 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 smmspsmmsp 244200 Nov 9 12:28 daily.cvd -rw-rw-r-- 1 smmspsmmsp6924820 Nov 3 20:06 main.cvd I tried changing to that dir in my rc script like this: [ -x /usr/local/bin/freshclam ] (cd /usr/local/share/clamav ; /usr/local/bin/freshclam -d) but it made no difference. I never had this error with any of the 0.8x series, it only started when I upgraded to the test 0.90rc2 release. Anyone any ideas on this? thanks, Gavin -- Gavin Aiken Technical Director - UK Tel: +44-1277-246000 Fax: +44-1277-228767 Web: http://www.dtint.com/ Digital Technology International Ltd. Brentwood House 169 Kings Road Brentwood Essex CM14 4EG Registered in England No. 1876409 ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] How to test ClamAV
raja semut spake thusly on Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 01:15:44PM +0700: in Linux Fedora Core 4, i am install qmail-1.03 + qmail-scanner-2.01 + Clamav-0.90rc2 + Mail-SpamAsssassin-3.1.7. How i can make sure that Clamav is running well in my qmail server ? i try in server /etc/init.d/clamd status it show Clamd is running but why i can receive e-mail contains virus ? any one know this problem, please advice me.. thank you. --- end quoted text --- You mentioned that you are using qmail-scanner. Make sure to read the documentation for that package. You need to make sure you have the proper configuration. -- Regards, Richard Did this email or post help you? If so, please rate me at affero: http://rate.affero.net/RhunDraco pgpH9jZm6ANkR.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
[Clamav-users] configure error
./configure on HP 11.0 getting this: configure:16443: error: Need to know how to pack structures with this compiler Solution please ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] configure error
On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 08:59 -0600, Lux, Linda wrote: ./configure on HP 11.0 getting this: configure:16443: error: Need to know how to pack structures with this compiler This is a known problem. Solution please I have asked HP for a help in providing a solution, and they did say that they'd send one, however none has arrived yet (it was a few weeks ago). For the moment only GCC is supported on HP-UX. -Nigel ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
On Nov 7, 2006, at 6:48 PM, Jim Redman wrote: Chris, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Jim Redman wrote: Your opinions, seem to be the prevalent attitude of the vocal members of this list - if you don't suffer, it wasn't worth it. I would disagree, in that I don't see it as suffering. Forgive me if I missed it, but what is your specific problem ? Perhaps we have different definitions of suffering. The only specific complaint I saw was the message Your version is outdated, and that seems to me to be a very simple English declarative sentence, with a simple solution. You are running an old version, get a new one. Sorry, my point has nothing to do with my particular suffering or any particular aspect of that - or at least only indirectly. My observation is that of all the modern packages ClamAV fails to install and run successfully and securely without operator intervention. I think that this should be refined to reference Fedora packages and perhaps not all of them. There are a number of reasons why I consider this a bad thing (other opinions have been expressed by others on the list). 1) It sucks my time because I immediately have to learn more than I want to about ClamAV (and freshclam and clamav-milter and the interactions between all these applications). 2) The installation is probably going to be sub-optimal because I don't have enough time to spend on ClamAV to become the expert that others on this list clearly are. You don't have to be an expert to tune it if you're just reading the config file, though. If you have problems with the server spiking CPU usage or running out of RAM, it's not hard to look and see what settings would affect that. If you can't do this and the material is out there for people to easily refer to, maybe you're short on staff (and need more people in your department) or there's some management problems that keep you from effectively doing your job, from the sounds of it. 3) It encourages bad/insecure installations because people (including me) without enough time to spend on researching the best way to install ClamAV (and associated apps) will be ignorant of possible security hole (or not recognize the significance of them). Bad installations could be REALLY bad - is there any way ClamAV could be instrumental in generating mails to the SENDER of a virus e-mail? This can be a problem with ANY software. I don't know anything about AutoCAD, yet am expected to install and troubleshoot it at times. I rely on the people who know AutoCAD (but squat about computers) to tell me when something is wrong with their install and troubleshoot it from there (yes, we're understaffed, otherwise I'd dedicate more time to learning it; just the reality of the situation). It means that either they hire more people, let me dedicate more time to troubleshooting and repairing server work, or suffer the consequences of the short staffed. I'm not going to bitch to the software programmers that they need to fix my problems that are caused by management on my side, though, since there is documentation and references available for the software package...I just click through the defaults and mop up problems later on. 4) (Altruism) It limits the adoption of ClamAV which in turn increase the number/penetration of viruses. Maybe the project doesn't WANT people who have problems with their installs caused by willful ignorance...just a thought. The OP showed this right off with the title cherishing my ignorance. If someone wants a labor-centric job with no skills to enhance, apply at McBurger King. They cherish employees who cherish ignorance because they're easy to hire and fire. IT isn't a McJob that it seems to get treated as. One person doing overlapping job skills without an adequate staff to support them will cause problems, and the business needs to recognize that. ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
On Nov 7, 2006, at 6:16 PM, Jim Redman wrote: Steve, Steve Holdoway wrote: You really do need to get out of the mindset that you don't actually need to know what you're doing to administer a server. It is *NOT* a trivial task, requires skills to support it, and years of experience to do it well. Your opinions, seem to be the prevalent attitude of the vocal members of this list - if you don't suffer, it wasn't worth it. Is it really suffering if the steps are documented and you can follow them? Suffering to me would be if the steps are outlined somewhere and in the course of following those directions, you get errors and failures. Or the routine isn't documented anywhere so you have to dig and hunt and infer how to configure something. If you're a sysadmin and following directions is defined as suffering, I think you may have other problems to deal with... I would argue that I'm know enough about server administration to realize that my knowledge of ClamAV will never be as deep as others on this list, how much better if they create a secure, stable, successful, packaged configuration and everyone (which happens to also include me!) benefits from their knowledge. Or does that sound like flamebait? Because what fits your needs may not fit other people's needs when you stop to consider how draconian or how absolutely loose-and-free different mail admins can be? There are still idiots running open relays out there. Encouraging people to know what the hell they're doing helps separate those idiots from the rest of the populace. Maybe what would actually be helpful is an automated uninstall/ reinstall that asks what options you want set to what values, and compares changes from the previous install. Makes it more tedious though. -Bart ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Re: To ClamAV Developers: donation question
Gerard Seibert wrote: On Wednesday November 08, 2006 at 11:16:21 (AM) Sergei Lavrov wrote: Some of the businesses I know do want to make donations. But is ClamAV able to issue invoice ? In other words, you are looking for a tax write off. No, it's got nothing to do with taxes - it's a matter of practicality; getting budget approval for a business expense is much easier than for charity. /Per Jessen, Zürich ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
Folks, I have to say, of all the lists I subscribe to, the vocal members of this list are the most arrogant and insulting. However, I consider comments such as Luca Gibelli's, bandwidth wasting, We are happy to suffer this loss. and Dennis Peterson's His specific problem is he lacks the skill to install and manage the product reflect more about the person making the comment, rather than the target. I would also consider the prevalent attitude misplaced and wrong, and before you berate me for knowing nothing, let me say this I've been managing mail systems on Linux since the late 1.x releases and build and support embedded Linux distros. If you're following the logic here, that still doesn't prove that I know much, but at least I have some background... Somewhere between my teenage years and now, I have enough experience to realize that I don't know everything. I can't create faster/better optimized programs using assembler than a high level language, and I'm not the worlds most knowledgeable Linux security expert. The many packages that make up Linux are better understood by those who created and maintain them and these people are the most qualified to produce secure configurations of these packages. Even if I DID understand a package better than the maintainer, or have a better grasp of security than the person producing configuration, I would recognize that having more people look at the configuration WILL improve the system. This is one of the basic arguments of Eric Raymond's The Cathedral and the Bazaar http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue3_3/raymond/ I no longer possess the desire to build Linux systems from scratch, or to customize them so heavily that I cannot benefit from the work of some of the greats in the community, although I may occasionally humbly make suggestions that I think might be of benefit (some of these are not necessarily accepted as such). I'll further encourage these efforts because, having done this for a while, I realize that it _IS_ now possible for someone who knows almost nothing about Linux administration to take a distro, install it, update it using one of the package managers and have a secure, if sub-optimal installation, taking the defaults at installation. When I realize that this person might otherwise have put Windows on the net and become another spam and virus spewing Bot I feel that anything that can be done to make the standard distros easier to use, and so to encourage their uptake, is good. And yet, when you suggest that one of the advances that ClamAV could make is to be in a position to help these people, the responses represent an elitist (and mis-guided) attitude that everyone should be a highly skill sysadmin more knowledgeable of the ClamAV system. So, now you have some more flamebait. I'm signing off, because, for the vocal members of this list at least, Scott Adams seems to have the right idea (http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/): Let me begin by saying I don’t debate with advocates. An advocate says that everything is right about one position and everything is wrong about the other side. You might as well debate with a doorknob. Jim -- Jim Redman (505) 662 5156 x85 http://www.ergotech.com ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 10:24 -0500, Bart Silverstrim wrote: On Nov 7, 2006, at 6:48 PM, Jim Redman wrote: Chris, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Jim Redman wrote: My observation is that of all the modern packages ClamAV fails to install and run successfully and securely without operator intervention. I think that this should be refined to reference Fedora packages and perhaps not all of them. I don't use Fedora - I use Mandriva. And my experience has been that the RPMS provided by Mandriva do allow you to run out of the box with very little tweaking. That is important to me - I manage about 20 linux servers, but my primary responsibility is 196 routers and firewalls. I'm not ignorant of the build process - I learned how to build SRPM's working with this package - I merely don't have the time to mess with it. So, I understand the sentiment. There are a number of reasons why I consider this a bad thing (other opinions have been expressed by others on the list). 4) (Altruism) It limits the adoption of ClamAV which in turn increase the number/penetration of viruses. Maybe the project doesn't WANT people who have problems with their installs caused by willful ignorance...just a thought. I personally think that's a poor attitude. Clueless newbies are important too. I personally will dump a project that takes too long to get working at all. As long as I can see progress it will keep my interest. For example, the Hobbitmonitor project is buried deep on my todo list - There are about 15 post release patches that have to be individually applied in a certain order, and I have yet to get it right and have it compile. So I ignore it, and think If I ever get about 4 hours of un-interrupted time, I'm going to tackle that beast. Of course, I don't have 4 hours, so it just gets deeper on the pile, and I never get my monitoring server built, and I never am able to contribute back to the project by helping other clueless newbies... -- Daniel J McDonald, CCIE # 2495, CISSP # 78281, CNX Austin Energy http://www.austinenergy.com ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Daniel J McDonald wrote: My observation is that of all the modern packages ClamAV fails to install and run successfully and securely without operator intervention. I think that this should be refined to reference Fedora packages and perhaps not all of them. I don't use Fedora - I use Mandriva. And my experience has been that the RPMS provided by Mandriva do allow you to run out of the box with You've just hit the problem: Which distributions should the Clam Team be spending time on - Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, SUSE - - - my favorite, your favorite ? This is not a unique complaint to Clam - I see similar problems on the MailMan list, and RedHat/Fedora again is a big source of complaints. As far as I know, across Linux, packages for distibutions are the responibility of the distro, not the project in question. Fedora is fairly well known for making changes to the default way that applications are set up, often moving things around (files, sockets, etc). I think what the OP is asking for misses this fact. When you install Clam from Fedora packages, basicly you need to get support from Fedora. Maybe you need a different distro, that keeps things in default locations. == Chris Candreva -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my Hobbitses.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel J McDonald wrote: For example, the Hobbitmonitor project is buried deep on my todo list - There are about 15 post release patches that have to be individually applied in a certain order, You want the allinone.patch referenced on that page, which is exactly what its name implies :). If you apply that you may proceed with ./configure et. al., and all will Just Work. - -- Rob Munsch Solutions For Progress IT www.solutionsforprogress.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFU4UuBvBcJFK6xYURAuheAJ4qgAo414hjntjRnYKHBqA3qfF0MgCfcGUU RJDriFBSOT0GjBnoN2XR5iw= =C/BW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
Jim Redman wrote: snippage I no longer possess the desire to build Linux systems from scratch, or to customize them so heavily that I cannot benefit from the work of some of the greats in the community, although I may occasionally humbly make suggestions that I think might be of benefit (some of these are not necessarily accepted as such). more snippage I have to agree with the general request made by Jim. Unfortunately, most of us end user sysadmins have a lot on our plates. Compiling is not that hard, but it is definitely harder than using something like an RPM. And as the config file is normally not replaced, setting things up the way you want it normally is left alone. I really can't imagine trying to keep up with a full linux server these days with all the security issues, if I had to compile each and every update to each and every program... thus the success of distros such as Redhat, Suse and Debian to name just a few. I personally run CentOS for all my systems. I use the dag repository for many additional packages, ClamAV being one of the main packages. I find his ClamAV RPM works right out of the box, and is updated as needed, which allows the use of yum or up2date to keep Clam updated. But his repository is aimed at Redhat. I have to compliment the ClamAV team for providing a great list of other sources for obtaining ClamAV. Perhaps taking a careful look there first is something we should all consider, if that resource has been overlooked. http://clamav.net/binary.html Thanks for a great product. John Hinton ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my oops
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 sorry, meant that to be a private reply back to the OP -.- - -- Rob Munsch Solutions For Progress IT www.solutionsforprogress.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFU49kBvBcJFK6xYURApogAJ9nM08ECu0ia5fJS/JIIWDSzuGJ9gCff61R ak0UDNpdGhEE48aX8STQxxM= =4vIq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
[Clamav-users] Problem when building clamd on
I have three servers all running FreeBSD 4.11. I can build clamd on two of them just fine, but when I build it on one particular machine, I get these warnings when building: /usr/lib/libc_r.so: the use of `pthread_attr_getstackaddr' is deprecated, use `pthread_attr_getstack' /usr/lib/libc_r.so: the use of `pthread_attr_setstackaddr' is deprecated, use `pthread_attr_setstack' When I try to execute clamd, I get Bus error. All files returned when listing /usr/lib/libc* appear to be identical in size on all three machines. The config.log from the build on one of the machines where clamd is working looks nearly identical to the config.log from the build on the machine where clamd dies on Bus error. I tried to build with --disable-pthreads but clamd doesn't build then (I assume that it requires threads). Anyone have any ideas what else I can check? What other information might be required? Failing getting it to work this way, how would I try building the clamav distribution with LinuxThreads on FreeBSD 4.11? -- Mark Hennessy ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
Jim Redman wrote: I have to say, of all the lists I subscribe to, the vocal members of this list are the most arrogant and insulting. However, I consider comments such as Luca Gibelli's, bandwidth wasting, We are happy to suffer this loss. and Dennis Peterson's His specific problem is he lacks the skill to install and manage the product reflect more about the person making the comment, rather than the target. I really hope this thread dies a quick death. If you consider L.Gibelli's and D.Petterson's replys a bandwidth wasting, what are you calling your repetitive mindless blather like I'm not spending another two days monkeying with configuration? None of the comparably few and well documented options in ClamAv's config files should be hard to understand for someone who is allegedly administrating Linux servers since late 1.x release, not to mention a software developer like you also alleged to be. As for your comparison with a doorknob, if a doorknob has the better arguments it's reasonable that you don't want to debate with it. I'm sorry for the probably arrogant and insulting tone but you're literally asking for it. -- Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
Dennis Peterson wrote: Jim Redman wrote: Your opinions, seem to be the prevalent attitude of the vocal members of this list - if you don't suffer, it wasn't worth it. His specific problem is he lacks the skill to install and manage the product. It's rather sad to see that this elitist attitude - which was commonplace on Usenet back in the early 90's - is still alive and well here in 2006. I'm not sure why people who otherwise are enthusiastic supporters of open source don't see how this damages the community. The argument is also flawed. So, the people criticizing the OP's premise all build their software from scratch, build their own OS distributions, and never used packaged software - right? No? Do you at least review all the source code before you install a package? No? We've built up these layers not always because the end users don't have the knowledge to reproduce them themselves, but because it would be a waste of effort to replicate them. This hold as true for rewriting a virus scanning engine from scratch as it does for writing your own installation script. (If your environment requires custom behavior, then by all means, write your own installation script...or for that matter, customize the virus scanning engine.) Ease of installation is valued by knowledgeable users also. Why spend time on a problem that others have already solved hundreds of times over. I'd much rather use my time in solving unexpected problems that are specific to my environment. There are good reasons why distributions providing packaged software are the dominant distributions in use today. Instead of attacking the OP's premise, a more productive response is suggesting other repositories that offer better packages, and other distributions that provide better designed packages, and fortunately this information was provided by others in among the noise. It would also be nice to see the project leaders show a better attitude towards package maintainers. Not to say they necessarily have a poor attitude towards them, but there wasn't anything positive put forth in this thread. No one expects ClamAV to natively support specific distributions, but a statement along the lines of yeah, we've heard the Fedora RPM isn't the smoothest install, but we're working with the maintainer to improve it. Or, we've accepted and incorporated numerous patches from downstream packagers, so if you're having a problem with a specific package, your best recourse is to report the problem to the maintainer and have them report to us any changes that need to be made. A related issue is how often it is recommended on the list just to build from source. It's an understandable way to respond to packaging problems on a project list, where the project has no direct control over the packages. It's the fastest work-around, and the only short-term solution. But it suggests that packaging for ClamAV seems to be more problematic than for other comparable apps., and maybe that's because more could be done in the core project to accommodate packagers. -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA Enterprise solutions through open source. Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/ ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
tBB wrote: I'm sorry for the probably arrogant and insulting tone but you're literally asking for it. Perhaps he is asking for it, but he's also right. ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 07:23:22PM -0500, Tom Metro said: Dennis Peterson wrote: Jim Redman wrote: Your opinions, seem to be the prevalent attitude of the vocal members of this list - if you don't suffer, it wasn't worth it. His specific problem is he lacks the skill to install and manage the product. It's rather sad to see that this elitist attitude - which was commonplace on Usenet back in the early 90's - is still alive and well here in 2006. I'm not sure why people who otherwise are enthusiastic supporters of open source don't see how this damages the community. I agree that the argument you don't want to spend your time looking at gdb/valgrind/whatever output, so your input isn't welcome is a flawed argument. I do feel that we have to ask a little bit from people who intend to run servers, though. I have always felt that one of the reasons we have giant waves of botnets is the idea that anyone can run an internet facing computer. Not to say we can't be more welcoming to newcomers, but I do think we have to ask for something in return. It would also be nice to see the project leaders show a better attitude towards package maintainers. Not to say they necessarily have a poor attitude towards them, but there wasn't anything positive put forth in this thread. No one expects ClamAV to natively support specific distributions, but a statement along the lines of yeah, we've heard the Fedora RPM isn't the smoothest install, but we're working with the maintainer to improve it. Or, we've accepted and incorporated numerous patches from downstream packagers, so if you're having a problem with a specific package, your best recourse is to report the problem to the maintainer and have them report to us any changes that need to be made. Speaking as a downstream packager, I have always had a very good relationship with all of the clamav team members, except when I manage to put my foot in my mouth. They have always been curteous, respectful, and willing to accomodate issues that arise from the specific wierdnesses of working within distro restraints. Even when I manage to put my foot in my mouth, they have managed to have the good grace to forget reasonably quickly :) It's true that, in general, it's best to run as recent a version of the code base as possible for support and/or security issues, but that's the same with every codebase, and not particular to clamav. -- -- | Stephen Gran | Catharsis is something I associate with | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | pornography and crossword puzzles. -- | | http://www.lobefin.net/~steve | Howard Chaykin | -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
Dennis Peterson wrote: Jim Redman wrote: Your opinions, seem to be the prevalent attitude of the vocal members of this list - if you don't suffer, it wasn't worth it. His specific problem is he lacks the skill to install and manage the product. It's rather sad to see that this elitist attitude - which was commonplace on Usenet back in the early 90's - is still alive and well here in 2006. I'm not sure why people who otherwise are enthusiastic supporters of open source don't see how this damages the community. Everyone is a volunteer - the best that can be done in an all-volunteer market place is being done now. In this case it was not good enough for the OP. He could have offered to pay somebody to teach him or an employee how to package things to his liking but he did not. Like you, he expects that somebody will hear the whine and respond with a turnkey package. And in a year when an upgrade is needed he will wonder why that volunteer abandonded the project and left all his customers hanging, never realizing they he has no customers, as he volunteered his labor. Open source is a beautiful thing but it does not come with a promise of endentured servitude on the part of the maintainers. If one cannot do what is needed to install and maintain a product one should hire it out or find another product. One should not get pissy with the volunteer support group that is a keystone to this product's success. Better than ranting here about it you could write the turnkey package for him in the spirit of Kum-Bay-Yah and good fellowship. He's desperate for a solution as long as he doesn't have to put any effort into it. As for providing alternate solutions, that what Google is for - this is 2006, afterall. dp ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] Cherishing my ignorance - An appeal to package rs
My god! This topic hasn't been killed yet?!? ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
Re: [Clamav-users] open source project management
Dennis Peterson wrote: Everyone is a volunteer - the best that can be done in an all-volunteer market place is being done now. ... Open source is a beautiful thing but it does not come with a promise of endentured servitude on the part of the maintainers. Yes, it's a volunteer effort, but it is also perfectly legitimate for end-users of open source applications to provide feedback to the project developers. I'm not a code contributor on ClamAV, and I don't think you are either, but on projects where I do contribute, I look forward to end-user feedback, as it helps direct your efforts. It's a mistake to take the stance that just because it is an open source project, there is no legitimate feedback other than code patches. However, that doesn't mean that end-users should expect their needs to be met on their time table, or at all, if resources aren't available. Again, rather than attacking the premise, a more legitimate response from someone who isn't actually writing the code is to offer an opinion on where you think the OPs request should fall on the list of priorities. For the actual developers, they could point the OP toward the correct down-steam parties, agree with his point and say where it is or isn't on the priority list, or provide an explanation for why they think it isn't an area where they will spend their time. Any of those are perfectly fine responses. -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA Enterprise solutions through open source. Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/ ___ http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-users.html
