Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large Archive Scanner tool

2023-11-16 Thread Micah Snyder (micasnyd) via clamav-users
We are primarily creating the large archive scanning to support the use case of 
scanning bundled collections of software, VM images, etc.

Large MP4/MOV/AVI/etc media files are not traditional archives even if they do 
technically archive media streams. But media streams are not a significant 
threat concern. As you mentioned, the biggest concern is probably a malicious 
media file exploiting a vulnerable application to get code execution. Media 
streams would not otherwise be executable.

Someone may add support to later to extract and scan media streams, but without 
signature content or special logic coded in a custom media-stream parser 
written to detect exploits, the scanning of such files is pointless. We have 
some of that kind of logic to inspect some picture formats (JPEG, PNG, etc) for 
correctness, but don't have any support for H265, AAC, or other video or audio 
file formats.

Respectfully,
Micah


Micah Snyder
ClamAV Development
Talos
Cisco Systems, Inc.


From: clamav-users  on behalf of Paul 
Kosinski via clamav-users 
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:28 PM
To: Micah Snyder (micasnyd) via clamav-users 
Cc: Paul Kosinski 
Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large 
Archive Scanner tool

Large archive files may be the most obvious case, especially if things like 
disk images and installation images are included, but make sure that large 
multimedia files are also handled.

In today's Internet environment, there are probably far, far more large video 
files floating around than traditional archives. And in some sense multimedia 
"container" files (like MP4, MOV, AVI etc.) are archives of their media streams 
(like H.264/5, AAC, etc.) -- but these archives are, of course, interleaved for 
real-time playback.

I might add that there have been recent reports of malformed (perhaps 
malicious) multimedia files causing crashes or unwanted code execution in 
software such as FFMPEG.


On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 20:32:38 +
"Micah Snyder \(micasnyd\) via clamav-users"  
wrote:

> In case anyone else is looking into this, I wanted to share some news.
>
> We have been getting some help to create a tool to recursively unpack (or 
> mount) and scan large archives (greater than 2000MB).
>
> This effort has progressed to the point where we've started code review and 
> writing documentation. I'm not entirely sure how we will package it for 
> people to use.  I'll share more when we go to open source it. I wanted to 
> share the news now in case anyone else was going to work on it and so they're 
> not as frustrated when it turns out we've done the same.
>
> I don't have a specific release date in mind.  It likely won't be until early 
> next year.  While we've started code review and testing, the developer that 
> has built the tool for us is now working on adding the allmatch-mode feature 
> support.
>
> Best regards,
> Micah
>
>
> Micah Snyder
> ClamAV Development
> Talos
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
>
> 
> From: Andrew C Aitchison 
> Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 6:25 PM
> To: Micah Snyder (micasnyd) 
> Cc: ClamAV users ML 
> Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize
>
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Micah Snyder (micasnyd) wrote:
>
> > I agree with you.  I suspect the majority of cases today is when
> > people have a large archive of files to scan.
> >
> > I think best case scenario for people with a need to scan files
> > larger than the present internal 2GB limit is that archives larger
> > than 2GB are decompressed and then the files inside are scanned, but
> > without actually scanning the very large outer archive.
> >
> > The way to do this as things work today is to script something
> > around clamscan or clamdscan that if the file is too large, handle
> > some assorted file types:
> >
> >  1.  if file is a tar.gz, un-tar.gz it and then scan the files within.
> >  2.  if file is a zip, un-zip it and then scan the files within.
> >  3.  etc.
> >
> > I think everyone would like if clamav could do this automatically
> > for select archive types. And I think the advantage would be that we
> > would perhaps keep the extracted files in memory, or else at least
> > delete the temp files as we go without extracting all of it to disk
> > before starting to scan.
> >
> > However, it would be far easier to make a shell script or a python
> > script that wraps clamscan/clamdscan and uses native tools like
> > "tar", "unzip", etc.
>
> Good idea.
>
> Simply untarring or unzipping into a pipe does not separate the packed files.
> However at least tar does have an option which allow us to write a one-liner:
&

Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large Archive Scanner tool

2023-11-16 Thread Micah Snyder (micasnyd) via clamav-users
Hi,

It's going to be a python script that depends on having clamav installed and 
has a few other dependencies for working with zip's, tar's, iso's, and a few 
other archive formats. At this time, I'm expecting that we will publish it in a 
separate git repo and not bundle it directly with ClamAV.

Regards,
Micah


Micah Snyder
ClamAV Development
Talos
Cisco Systems, Inc.

From: clamav-users  on behalf of Vu, 
Hong-Duc V. via clamav-users 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 10:49 AM
Cc: Vu, Hong-Duc V. ; ClamAV users ML 

Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large 
Archive Scanner tool


Hi Micah,



Is it going to be part of clamav or a different application entirely?



Hong-Duc Vu





From: Micah Snyder (micasnyd) 
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 3:33 PM
To: Andrew C Aitchison 
Cc: ClamAV users ML 
Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large 
Archive Scanner tool



In case anyone else is looking into this, I wanted to share some news.



We have been getting some help to create a tool to recursively unpack (or 
mount) and scan large archives (greater than 2000MB).



This effort has progressed to the point where we've started code review and 
writing documentation. I'm not entirely sure how we will package it for people 
to use.  I'll share more when we go to open source it. I wanted to share the 
news now in case anyone else was going to work on it and so they're not as 
frustrated when it turns out we've done the same.



I don't have a specific release date in mind.  It likely won't be until early 
next year.  While we've started code review and testing, the developer that has 
built the tool for us is now working on adding the allmatch-mode feature 
support.



Best regards,

Micah



Micah Snyder
ClamAV Development
Talos
Cisco Systems, Inc.


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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large Archive Scanner tool

2023-11-14 Thread Vu, Hong-Duc V. via clamav-users
Hi Micah,

Is it going to be part of clamav or a different application entirely?

Hong-Duc Vu


From: Micah Snyder (micasnyd) 
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 3:33 PM
To: Andrew C Aitchison 
Cc: ClamAV users ML 
Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large 
Archive Scanner tool

In case anyone else is looking into this, I wanted to share some news.

We have been getting some help to create a tool to recursively unpack (or 
mount) and scan large archives (greater than 2000MB).

This effort has progressed to the point where we've started code review and 
writing documentation. I'm not entirely sure how we will package it for people 
to use.  I'll share more when we go to open source it. I wanted to share the 
news now in case anyone else was going to work on it and so they're not as 
frustrated when it turns out we've done the same.

I don't have a specific release date in mind.  It likely won't be until early 
next year.  While we've started code review and testing, the developer that has 
built the tool for us is now working on adding the allmatch-mode feature 
support.

Best regards,
Micah


Micah Snyder
ClamAV Development
Talos
Cisco Systems, Inc.

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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large Archive Scanner tool

2023-11-13 Thread Paul Kosinski via clamav-users
Large archive files may be the most obvious case, especially if things like 
disk images and installation images are included, but make sure that large 
multimedia files are also handled.

In today's Internet environment, there are probably far, far more large video 
files floating around than traditional archives. And in some sense multimedia 
"container" files (like MP4, MOV, AVI etc.) are archives of their media streams 
(like H.264/5, AAC, etc.) -- but these archives are, of course, interleaved for 
real-time playback.

I might add that there have been recent reports of malformed (perhaps 
malicious) multimedia files causing crashes or unwanted code execution in 
software such as FFMPEG.


On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 20:32:38 +
"Micah Snyder \(micasnyd\) via clamav-users"  
wrote:

> In case anyone else is looking into this, I wanted to share some news.
> 
> We have been getting some help to create a tool to recursively unpack (or 
> mount) and scan large archives (greater than 2000MB).
> 
> This effort has progressed to the point where we've started code review and 
> writing documentation. I'm not entirely sure how we will package it for 
> people to use.  I'll share more when we go to open source it. I wanted to 
> share the news now in case anyone else was going to work on it and so they're 
> not as frustrated when it turns out we've done the same.
> 
> I don't have a specific release date in mind.  It likely won't be until early 
> next year.  While we've started code review and testing, the developer that 
> has built the tool for us is now working on adding the allmatch-mode feature 
> support.
> 
> Best regards,
> Micah
> 
> 
> Micah Snyder
> ClamAV Development
> Talos
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
> 
> 
> From: Andrew C Aitchison 
> Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 6:25 PM
> To: Micah Snyder (micasnyd) 
> Cc: ClamAV users ML 
> Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize
> 
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Micah Snyder (micasnyd) wrote:
> 
> > I agree with you.  I suspect the majority of cases today is when
> > people have a large archive of files to scan.
> >
> > I think best case scenario for people with a need to scan files
> > larger than the present internal 2GB limit is that archives larger
> > than 2GB are decompressed and then the files inside are scanned, but
> > without actually scanning the very large outer archive.
> >
> > The way to do this as things work today is to script something
> > around clamscan or clamdscan that if the file is too large, handle
> > some assorted file types:
> >
> >  1.  if file is a tar.gz, un-tar.gz it and then scan the files within.
> >  2.  if file is a zip, un-zip it and then scan the files within.
> >  3.  etc.
> >
> > I think everyone would like if clamav could do this automatically
> > for select archive types. And I think the advantage would be that we
> > would perhaps keep the extracted files in memory, or else at least
> > delete the temp files as we go without extracting all of it to disk
> > before starting to scan.
> >
> > However, it would be far easier to make a shell script or a python
> > script that wraps clamscan/clamdscan and uses native tools like
> > "tar", "unzip", etc.  
> 
> Good idea.
> 
> Simply untarring or unzipping into a pipe does not separate the packed files.
> However at least tar does have an option which allow us to write a one-liner:
> (tar xf ~/viruses.tar --to-command='clamdscan -v - || echo "  found in 
> $TAR_REALNAME\n\n---"' ) |& egrep -i found
> stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
>found in viruses/EICAR.COM.TAR
> stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
>found in viruses/eicar.com.txt
> stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
>found in viruses/URLEICAR.COM.TAR
> stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
>found in viruses/4DOSBOX/EICAR.COM
> stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
>found in viruses/EICAR.COM
> 
> The echo is needed to show the name of the file inside the archive.
> 
> This appears not to write the unpacked files to disk.
> 
> --
> Andrew C. Aitchison  Kendal, UK
> and...@aitchison.me.uk
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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize / news of upcoming Large Archive Scanner tool

2023-11-13 Thread Micah Snyder (micasnyd) via clamav-users
In case anyone else is looking into this, I wanted to share some news.

We have been getting some help to create a tool to recursively unpack (or 
mount) and scan large archives (greater than 2000MB).

This effort has progressed to the point where we've started code review and 
writing documentation. I'm not entirely sure how we will package it for people 
to use.  I'll share more when we go to open source it. I wanted to share the 
news now in case anyone else was going to work on it and so they're not as 
frustrated when it turns out we've done the same.

I don't have a specific release date in mind.  It likely won't be until early 
next year.  While we've started code review and testing, the developer that has 
built the tool for us is now working on adding the allmatch-mode feature 
support.

Best regards,
Micah


Micah Snyder
ClamAV Development
Talos
Cisco Systems, Inc.


From: Andrew C Aitchison 
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 6:25 PM
To: Micah Snyder (micasnyd) 
Cc: ClamAV users ML 
Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Micah Snyder (micasnyd) wrote:

> I agree with you.  I suspect the majority of cases today is when
> people have a large archive of files to scan.
>
> I think best case scenario for people with a need to scan files
> larger than the present internal 2GB limit is that archives larger
> than 2GB are decompressed and then the files inside are scanned, but
> without actually scanning the very large outer archive.
>
> The way to do this as things work today is to script something
> around clamscan or clamdscan that if the file is too large, handle
> some assorted file types:
>
>  1.  if file is a tar.gz, un-tar.gz it and then scan the files within.
>  2.  if file is a zip, un-zip it and then scan the files within.
>  3.  etc.
>
> I think everyone would like if clamav could do this automatically
> for select archive types. And I think the advantage would be that we
> would perhaps keep the extracted files in memory, or else at least
> delete the temp files as we go without extracting all of it to disk
> before starting to scan.
>
> However, it would be far easier to make a shell script or a python
> script that wraps clamscan/clamdscan and uses native tools like
> "tar", "unzip", etc.

Good idea.

Simply untarring or unzipping into a pipe does not separate the packed files.
However at least tar does have an option which allow us to write a one-liner:
(tar xf ~/viruses.tar --to-command='clamdscan -v - || echo "  found in 
$TAR_REALNAME\n\n---"' ) |& egrep -i found
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
   found in viruses/EICAR.COM.TAR
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
   found in viruses/eicar.com.txt
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
   found in viruses/URLEICAR.COM.TAR
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
   found in viruses/4DOSBOX/EICAR.COM
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
   found in viruses/EICAR.COM

The echo is needed to show the name of the file inside the archive.

This appears not to write the unpacked files to disk.

--
Andrew C. Aitchison  Kendal, UK
and...@aitchison.me.uk
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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-06-09 Thread Paul Kosinski via clamav-users
You are right. But more than that, merely *reading* a file will exercise such 
code. I wonder if anybody has devised a file which exploits such a kernel bug? 
(Shudder.)

After I wrote my objection, I realized that to be even more safe, one should 
scan removable disks at the block level before mounting them. But given the 
capacity these days of even USB thumb drives, this approach is pretty much 
impractical. Beside, what looks like a USB thumb drive might actually act as a 
USB keyboard! (In fact, I think somebody built a prototype.)


On Fri, 09 Jun 2023 18:15:39 -0700
Kenneth Porter  wrote:

> Filesystems are also files, interpreted by kernel-level filesystem drivers. 
> Some filesystems have a compression feature. Scanning ANY file exercises 
> such code.
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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-06-09 Thread Kenneth Porter
--On Friday, June 09, 2023 6:40 PM -0400 Paul Kosinski via clamav-users 
 wrote:



I have on occasion heard of vulnerabilities in some archiving software,
where the mere act of decompressing and extracting an archive can result
in malicious code execution due to a bug in the archiving software. After
all, such software can itself have the all too common lack of bounds
checking (etc.) that could be exploited by a maliciously malformed
archive.

It could also be that lower level archive-like files such as ISOs and
disk images could, by means of malicious structuring, trigger a total
system compromise, because it might well involve the kernel. The way an
ISO or disk image is typically used (on Linux, at least) is to create a
"loop" device from the file, and then *mount* it as block device -- a
clear kernel involvement.


Filesystems are also files, interpreted by kernel-level filesystem drivers. 
Some filesystems have a compression feature. Scanning ANY file exercises 
such code.



Of course, scanning any file might conceivably trigger a ClamAV bug, and
thus a compromise, but that is no reason to add another layer of
vulnerability to things. (But it is a good reason not to run ClamAV as
root.)


This is also a good reason to run it as a service in a sandbox with minimal 
capabilities. The client application (like a mail server) can feed the file 
to scan through a socket and rely on the service's sandbox to protect the 
client application.


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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-06-09 Thread Paul Kosinski via clamav-users
I must say I strongly disagree with the approach of feeding files contained in 
a big archive file one at a time to ClamAV. That's because an archive is 
*itself* a file.

I have on occasion heard of vulnerabilities in some archiving software, where 
the mere act of decompressing and extracting an archive can result in malicious 
code execution due to a bug in the archiving software. After all, such software 
can itself have the all too common lack of bounds checking (etc.) that could be 
exploited by a maliciously malformed archive.

It could also be that lower level archive-like files such as ISOs and disk 
images could, by means of malicious structuring, trigger a total system 
compromise, because it might well involve the kernel. The way an ISO or disk 
image is typically used (on Linux, at least) is to create a "loop" device from 
the file, and then *mount* it as block device -- a clear kernel involvement.

Of course, scanning any file might conceivably trigger a ClamAV bug, and thus a 
compromise, but that is no reason to add another layer of vulnerability to 
things. (But it is a good reason not to run ClamAV as root.)

Paul Kosinski



On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 20:55:25 +
"Micah Snyder \(micasnyd\) via clamav-users"  
wrote:

> I agree with you.  I suspect the majority of cases today is when people have 
> a large archive of files to scan.
> 
> I think best case scenario for people with a need to scan files larger than 
> the present internal 2GB limit is that archives larger than 2GB are 
> decompressed and then the files inside are scanned, but without actually 
> scanning the very large outer archive.
> 
> The way to do this as things work today is to script something around 
> clamscan or clamdscan that if the file is too large, handle some assorted 
> file types:
> 
>   1.  if file is a tar.gz, un-tar.gz it and then scan the files within.
>   2.  if file is a zip, un-zip it and then scan the files within.
>   3.  etc.
> 
> I think everyone would like if clamav could do this automatically for select 
> archive types. And I think the advantage would be that we would perhaps keep 
> the extracted files in memory, or else at least delete the temp files as we 
> go without extracting all of it to disk before starting to scan.
> 
> However, it would be far easier to make a shell script or a python script 
> that wraps clamscan/clamdscan and uses native tools like "tar", "unzip", etc.
> 
> Regards,
> Micah
> 
> 
> Micah Snyder
> ClamAV Development
> Talos
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-06-08 Thread Andrew C Aitchison via clamav-users

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Micah Snyder (micasnyd) wrote:


I agree with you.  I suspect the majority of cases today is when
people have a large archive of files to scan.

I think best case scenario for people with a need to scan files
larger than the present internal 2GB limit is that archives larger
than 2GB are decompressed and then the files inside are scanned, but
without actually scanning the very large outer archive.

The way to do this as things work today is to script something
around clamscan or clamdscan that if the file is too large, handle
some assorted file types:

 1.  if file is a tar.gz, un-tar.gz it and then scan the files within.
 2.  if file is a zip, un-zip it and then scan the files within.
 3.  etc.

I think everyone would like if clamav could do this automatically
for select archive types. And I think the advantage would be that we
would perhaps keep the extracted files in memory, or else at least
delete the temp files as we go without extracting all of it to disk
before starting to scan.

However, it would be far easier to make a shell script or a python
script that wraps clamscan/clamdscan and uses native tools like
"tar", "unzip", etc.


Good idea.

Simply untarring or unzipping into a pipe does not separate the packed files.
However at least tar does have an option which allow us to write a one-liner:
(tar xf ~/viruses.tar --to-command='clamdscan -v - || echo "  found in 
$TAR_REALNAME\n\n---"' ) |& egrep -i found
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
  found in viruses/EICAR.COM.TAR
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
  found in viruses/eicar.com.txt
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
  found in viruses/URLEICAR.COM.TAR
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
  found in viruses/4DOSBOX/EICAR.COM
stream: Eicar-Signature FOUND
  found in viruses/EICAR.COM

The echo is needed to show the name of the file inside the archive.

This appears not to write the unpacked files to disk.

--
Andrew C. Aitchison  Kendal, UK
   and...@aitchison.me.uk
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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-06-08 Thread Micah Snyder (micasnyd) via clamav-users
I agree with you.  I suspect the majority of cases today is when people have a 
large archive of files to scan.

I think best case scenario for people with a need to scan files larger than the 
present internal 2GB limit is that archives larger than 2GB are decompressed 
and then the files inside are scanned, but without actually scanning the very 
large outer archive.

The way to do this as things work today is to script something around clamscan 
or clamdscan that if the file is too large, handle some assorted file types:

  1.  if file is a tar.gz, un-tar.gz it and then scan the files within.
  2.  if file is a zip, un-zip it and then scan the files within.
  3.  etc.

I think everyone would like if clamav could do this automatically for select 
archive types. And I think the advantage would be that we would perhaps keep 
the extracted files in memory, or else at least delete the temp files as we go 
without extracting all of it to disk before starting to scan.

However, it would be far easier to make a shell script or a python script that 
wraps clamscan/clamdscan and uses native tools like "tar", "unzip", etc.

Regards,
Micah


Micah Snyder
ClamAV Development
Talos
Cisco Systems, Inc.

From: clamav-users  on behalf of Andrew 
C Aitchison via clamav-users 
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:34 AM
To: ClamAV users ML 
Cc: Andrew C Aitchison 
Subject: Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

On Wed, 24 May 2023, Tachibanaki Nozomi (橘木 希美) wrote:

> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> Thank you for your help always.
> I am contacting you to ask about MaxFileSize in clamd.conf.
>
> The following description is found in the configuration of
> /usr/local/etc/clamd.conf.
>
> MaxFileSize
> # Technical design limitations prevent ClamAV from scanning files greater than
> # 2 GB at this time.
>
> Is there any plan or possibility to change the technical design
> limitation that prevents scanning files larger than 2 GB in the
> future?

I believe that the intention is to remove this limit at some point.

I wonder whether the technical limitations are less severe for
archive formats such as tar and zip.
Could "small" files inside "large" archives be scanned
without the work necessary for full "large" file support ?

Apart from vulnerabilities caused by 2GB and 4GB limits themselves,
I think scanning inside large archives might solve many of the
reasons for scanning large files.

--
Andrew C. Aitchison  Kendal, UK
and...@aitchison.me.uk
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Re: [clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-05-24 Thread Andrew C Aitchison via clamav-users

On Wed, 24 May 2023, Tachibanaki Nozomi (橘木 希美) wrote:


Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your help always.
I am contacting you to ask about MaxFileSize in clamd.conf.

The following description is found in the configuration of
/usr/local/etc/clamd.conf.

MaxFileSize
# Technical design limitations prevent ClamAV from scanning files greater than
# 2 GB at this time.

Is there any plan or possibility to change the technical design
limitation that prevents scanning files larger than 2 GB in the
future?


I believe that the intention is to remove this limit at some point.

I wonder whether the technical limitations are less severe for
archive formats such as tar and zip.
Could "small" files inside "large" archives be scanned
without the work necessary for full "large" file support ?

Apart from vulnerabilities caused by 2GB and 4GB limits themselves,
I think scanning inside large archives might solve many of the
reasons for scanning large files.

--
Andrew C. Aitchison  Kendal, UK
   and...@aitchison.me.uk
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[clamav-users] Question About MaxFileSize

2023-05-23 Thread 橘木 希美
Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your help always.
I am contacting you to ask about MaxFileSize in clamd.conf.

The following description is found in the configuration of 
/usr/local/etc/clamd.conf.


MaxFileSize
# Technical design limitations prevent ClamAV from scanning files greater than

# 2 GB at this time.

Is there any plan or possibility to change the technical design limitation that 
prevents scanning files larger than 2 GB in the future?

I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely yours,

Nozomi Tachibanaki


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