date:20110719

Re: Excellent intro to core.logic

2011-07-19 Thread Meikel Brandmeyer

Hi Ambrose,

 I haven't been exposed to logic programming besides the examples David 
posted to the list. I found your tutorial very easy to follow and to read. I 
have two minor nit-picks.


   1. I understand, that these o, e and some third, I think, suffixes are 
   there historically. And for someone not used to logic programming they are 
   as counter-intuitive as it can get: o == relati*o*n? o.O WTF. Maybe you 
   can motivate a little why they are called like that historically? I 
   personally need such explanations in case of such (on first sight) unrelated 
   things.
   2. After going through some more or less easy to follow and to understand 
   examples, you dive into the interesting stuff: the definition of typedo - 
   and loose me completely with c, e, t, k, m, v, s and ?r. I understand that c 
   probably means context, e expression and t type. But trying to keep the 
   meaning of exists, matche, geto and other funny names with strange suffixes 
   in the cache *and* coping with one character locals is - at least for me 
   - a bit much.

Other than that: very nice tutorial indeed. :)

Sincerely
Meikel

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Re: Clojure Books

2011-07-19 Thread Sergey Didenko

Also check this great online introduction (targeting 1.0):
http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html

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Re: Excellent intro to core.logic

2011-07-19 Thread Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant

Hi Meikel,

Excellent feedback, exactly what I need. See replies inline.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:

 Hi Ambrose,

  I haven't been exposed to logic programming besides the examples David
 posted to the list. I found your tutorial very easy to follow and to read. I
 have two minor nit-picks.


1. I understand, that these o, e and some third, I think, suffixes are
there historically. And for someone not used to logic programming they are
as counter-intuitive as it can get: o == relati*o*n? o.O WTF. Maybe you
can motivate a little why they are called like that historically? I
personally need such explanations in case of such (on first sight) 
 unrelated
things.

 TBH I'm not too sure about the origin of these, but I'd like to know.

David, any idea?



1. After going through some more or less easy to follow and to
understand examples, you dive into the interesting stuff: the definition of
typedo - and loose me completely with c, e, t, k, m, v, s and ?r. I
understand that c probably means context, e expression and t type. But
trying to keep the meaning of exists, matche, geto and other funny names
with strange suffixes in the cache *and* coping with one character
locals is - at least for me - a bit much.

 Great point.

Is this easier on the eyes?

https://gist.github.com/1091495


 Other than that: very nice tutorial indeed. :)


Thank you very much!

Ambrose

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Re: Increasing indent level in pprint

2011-07-19 Thread Tom Faulhaber

Sean's remark is right for writing code, but not really relevant for
pretty printed data structures. The pretty printer will either avoid
(foo a followed by a line break or fill that line full. (By default,
for lists it breaks the lines and for vectors it fills them.)

While there's no way to just set the indent, you can get this effect
with a little work.

The pretty printer allows customization of the output format using
dispatch functions.

By default it uses simple-dispatch, defined here:
https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/d1e39b1ec7fc65907b13458d7ec70b0839f3f85e/src/clj/clojure/pprint/dispatch.clj#L65

I have created a variant of simple dispatch that does the two
character indent (as per your example above). I through a little
project on github: https://github.com/tomfaulhaber/pprint-indent. The
README is basically a copy of your second example run in my repl. The
source is in
https://github.com/tomfaulhaber/pprint-indent/blob/master/src/indent/indent.clj
for the curious.

Feel free to modify to taste. :)

On Jul 16, 10:52 pm, Asim Jalis asimja...@gmail.com wrote:
Okay. I see what you mean.

On Jul 16, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Asim Jalis asimja...@gmail.com wrote:
The position of the braces might be a red herring here. I was mostly
interested in figuring out how to increase the indentation level from
1 to something larger. Even an indentation step of 2 for each level
would be easier on the eye than 1.

My point was that the natural Lisp/Clojure indentation is to match
the items above so for:

{:something

the natural indentation is 1 and for:

(foo a

the natural indentation is 5: '(', 'f', 'o', 'o', ' '.

Indentation is not some fixed quantity you can change - it's dependent
on the structure of the data/code and the length of the symbols.
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View --http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. --http://worldsingles.com/
Railo Technologies, Inc. --http://www.getrailo.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

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Re: clooj, a lightweight IDE for clojure

2011-07-19 Thread Lee Spector


On Jul 18, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
 Or, the traditional thing: full control, but tab or something will
 reindent the current line, or all lines intersecting the selection if
 any, to structurally-correct positions based on all of the code above,
 if tab is hit outside a string literal or ; comment.

I personally think that this provides the best combination of clarity, 
simplicity, and utility. My guess is that smarter solutions will indeed get 
messy/annoying in some of the situations that Ken mentioned (e.g. pasting 
multiple lines, possibly from another app), and very occasionally I have reason 
to use non-standart indentation for some small segment of code. I do think that 
it's also good for the system to indent correctly when the user types a 
newline, which clooj already does.

 -Lee

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Re: Excellent intro to core.logic

2011-07-19 Thread Meikel Brandmeyer

Hi,

Am Dienstag, 19. Juli 2011 08:42:47 UTC+2 schrieb Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant:

 Is this easier on the eyes?

 https://gist.github.com/1091495


Ah! Much better! :D

Meikel 

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(count-all str1 str2)

2011-07-19 Thread Tuba Lambanog

Thinking of operations on collections to replace iteration is
productive, but alas, I'm new to it. I'm looking for a way to count
the number of occurrences of each and every character in str1 that
occurs in str2, so that

(count-all abc abracadabra)

will give

8

which is the count of characters in  abacaaba.

Any suggestion? Thanks!
Tuba

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Re: (count-all str1 str2)

2011-07-19 Thread Meikel Brandmeyer

Hi,

how about this: (count (filter (set abc) abracadabra))?

Sincerely
Meikel

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Re: clooj, a lightweight IDE for clojure

2011-07-19 Thread Clojure Neophyte


 - I wish that Swing was prettier on the eye. I love nice GUIs.

 Me too. I think in the long run the coolest thing will be an in-
 browser clojure IDE for clojure-in-javascript, especially when multi-
 threaded javascript becomes available in web browsers.


Maybe you should drop Swing and start experimenting with a cloud9-like IDE
instead.

Again, for Clojure to have wider adoption it should have a beginners' IDE.
It shouldn't be distributed just as jar files. That's fine for hackers but
clojure.org should have an IDE like CLOOJ and Clojure should be packaged
part of it (A Download button on the page should download it directly;
programmers should visit the Download page). Such an IDE would be ideal for
a college teacher to introduce Clojure to his students. This IDE should not
assume that these students have hacked on computers all their life.
- They should be able to create, edit, and build their entire project from
within the IDE and shouldn't have to switch to a terminal.
- The IDE should make the choice and not leave it to him. This IDE has to
choose one build system and not ask the user to choose. All choices should
be made.
- I don't believe that the parenthesis are the barrier for people to try a
lisp language. I bet that most people who repeat this never actually heard
it from a newbie; they just read it once and started repeating it. Unlike
Clojure, and Lisp generally, there is no syntax. While half of a book about
other languages discusses syntax issues, a Clojure book covers syntax in the
early chapters and the rest of the book is about concepts and advanced
issues. That's why lisp syntax is very small and pithy. More than any other
language, I think a new user needs to practice a lot writing very small code
pieces of code to get used to it. None of the Clojure books includes
exercises. Maybe its time someone write a Learning Clojure the Hard Way
book. The first lesson in The Hard Way book is to install a simple IDE like
CLOOJ (or CLIDE - clojure.org's fork: of it).

Many people believe that Clojure is not suitable as a first language.
Irrespective whether this is right or wrong, I find it odd that a language
like Clojure (and Scala) asks you to go learn another language before you
learn it. It is even more odd with Clojure because you need to learn one of
the broken languages first. Every general programming language should be a
first language.

Regards

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Re: clooj, a lightweight IDE for clojure

2011-07-19 Thread Lee Spector


On Jul 19, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Clojure Neophyte wrote:
 
 Again, for Clojure to have wider adoption it should have a beginners' IDE. It 
 shouldn't be distributed just as jar files.

FWIW I just double-clicked on the clooj jar and it launched like any other 
application -- I didn't have to know that it was a jar or even what a jar is. 
Assuming that this also works on other OSes (I'm using Mac OS X) then I think 
this is already beginner friendly. I *think* it also includes everything that a 
newbie needs for a complete workflow without any other tools or Terminal 
interactions...

 -Lee

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Re: Clojure Books

2011-07-19 Thread Teena Mathew

Thanks guys!


On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Sergey Didenko
sergey.dide...@gmail.comwrote:

 Also check this great online introduction (targeting 1.0):
 http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html


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