On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jun 28, 12:04 pm, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
620...@mired.org wrote:
The Python approach leads to more readable
code:http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/papers/readability.html
You don't seem to be very
(i.e. - drop the
discussion of apt-get and macports, and talk about installing from
your systems package system instead). Would anyone object if I took
some of that on?
mike
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without smart indentation ranges from inconvenient to hard. Writing in
a LISP without paren matching starts at hard and quickly escalates to
painful.
mike
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 13:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jun 28, 1:10 pm, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
620...@mired.org wrote:
Not true as I understand the Lisp way. You also need to reread the
last paragraph again.
I actually agree with you that the typical
1.2 is
released.
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for the class in
a shared place, and tweak the script to look there as well as their
private library.
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for clojure,
or b) provide instructions for setting up a suitable java-sourced
editor (so it runs everywhere) to do clojure indentation, then bundle
all that with clojure and clojure-contrib and a little bit of support?
mike
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cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is that actually getting anything
done with Common Lisp is a nightmare. Libraries are sparse and
incompatible among implementations. Crucial things like FFI and
concurrency are non-standard. Interfacing with the rest of the world
is tedious.
For
)))
(hash-map)
(partition 2 lst)))
Is there an easier/shorter way?
(apply hash-map lst)
mike
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...).
mike
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, there are already multiple OO implementations on top of
1.1. Most of them are more to show that you can do that if you really
want to, and I'm not sure how much the additions to 1.2 will obsolete
them.
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Nicolas Oury nicolas.o...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:59 AM, B Smith-Mannschott
bsmith.o...@gmail.comwrote:
This was suggested on the previous thread on this topic as well, but
I don't think it was pointed out that *Java already does this*.
: Duplicate key: :a
user= (set [:a :a])
#{:a}
user= (conj #{:a} :a)
#{:a}
user=
Apparently, duplicate keys in sets are only disallowed in set
literals. Arguably, that must be a mistake on the users part, but
it sure seems to clash with the behavior of sets elsewhere.
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blindness. :-)
My initial reaction was that's a bit odd, but probably a good idea.
However, given that I can use variables inside the literal and
constructor, I'm leaning the other way.
Or is (set [a b c]) idiomatic usage in this case, and (hash-set a b c)
or #{a b c} to be avoided?
mike
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or some such.
But it does leave me wondering where the duplicate-rejecting version
of into is :-).
mike
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, and I know that fast algorithms in combinatorics and crypto
tend to make use of them.
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it's brought more pain
than happiness.
5. Anything else you want to comment on?
Not really.
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have real
graphics hardware available, why aren't you trying to push this stuff
out to the vector processor on the GPU where it will really fly?
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or * 20 that.
Yes, but we've as yet to see that having auto-promotion as the default
buys the average app *10 or *20. The best we've seen is 10-20%, which
isn't really enough to justify the reduces range for what just
works.
mike
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the postfix N on bignums? Since both
the reader and humans do the right thing even if it's not there, we
shouldn't need it for output any more, even there might be times when
it's handy for input.
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on the JVM? Personally, I could
live without the JVM. And the more I learn about the JVM, the more I
could live without it!
On the other hand, the PyPy folks don't seem to be making much noise
either.
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:56:30 +0100
Nicolas Oury nicolas.o...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
Everyone has to realize the math you are advocating for the default,
on non-tagged architectures like the JVM
might even be able to
tweak things to make it even better.
mike
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.
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David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Mark Engelberg
mark.engelb...@gmail.comwrote:
My favorite option of those proposed is:
+, *, -, inc, dec auto-promote.
loop/recur is changed so that primitive bindings are boxed.
+',*',-',inc',dec' give error upon
Nicolas Oury nicolas.o...@gmail.com wrote:
On the other hand, having boxed by default is a very significant slowdown
(10% on the strange program I tried, that had already a lot of annotations,
probably 20% or more on most programs), that can never be addressed : you
can't write annotations on
Nicolas Oury nicolas.o...@gmail.com wrote:
I tried it on my program. Very few arithmetic, most of it with annotation.
10%
Can we see the source?
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:43:36 -0400
David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
Were those real world programs, or arithmetic benchmarks? Most real world
programs I see spend so little
with the JVM, similar to the reason we
don't get TCE?
mike
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are calls to integer ops.
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But that's my point. I want the *obvious* code to work. I'll worry
about making it fast after I've made it right. If you want a read-only
language that requires an expert to get working code in a reasonable
amount of time, you can always write in Perl or C.
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Rob Lachlan robertlach...@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, Mike, your two functions work just fine. (Equal branch).
Mind you I checked that out over two hours ago, so this information
might be out of date.
Rob
On Jun 19, 6:59 pm, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
Ok, why does this work
Rob Lachlan robertlach...@gmail.com wrote:
Because the compiler is upset that it doesn't know what n is. r is a
long, but n is ???. The following works:
(defn ^:static fact [^long n]
(loop [n n r 1]
(if (zero? n)
r
(recur (dec n) (* r n)
Or see Dnolen's version above.
.
Personally, I like recur. Telling the language I believe this is a
tail recursive call means it can tell me I was wrong at compile time,
rather than after it runs out of stack out run time. I hope it stays
around after we get TCE.
mike
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-algo val)/(my-other-complicated-algo exp)
1/(another-complicated-algo exp2))
with similar problems because we support 1e3?
mike
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On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Steven Devijver steven.devij...@gmail.com wrote:
On 8 jun, 16:38, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
620...@mired.org wrote:
Why? It isn't supported for rationals or exponents. Or are you
claiming that because we support 3/4 we should also support
a slew of Pascal variants that picked up Delphi features as
well as some other Delphi tools. The grouping seems odd, but if you
think of it as all OO Pascal variants, the rank makes a bit more
sense.
mike
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, but was
wondering if this would work.
mike
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On Windows, the problem is so common it's been given the name DLL
hell.
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regularly turn out code that's got bug counts comparable to the
best literate programs.
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the lstrip/strip/rstrip, but that's just because
I'm used to them.
mike
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to extract
just the executable parts of a literate program and feed them to the
language processor in the order it wants (the tangle command) seems
like an excellent litmus test for flexibility in such a system.
mike
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, it's a blog, so
the justification for what's near the top is found at the bottom
mike
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Clojure on Android isn't hard to set up, but performance isn't very
good. IIRC, there are two issues: both reflection and GC - which
Clojure tends to use heavily - are slow on Dalvik. Possibly Froyo will
help with that.
mike
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invoke the main function at the end of
the script. If you don't, then invoking it on the command line will
just load it, and then exit without running anything.
mike
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of them. Without
looking at the script, this is just a WAG, but I recall some
discussion about this issue earlier.
mike
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is reasonable, and it would be nice if the system didn't
get in the way of doing so.
mike
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#[ - list
mike
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On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:52:17 -0700 (PDT)
Jarkko Oranen chous...@gmail.com wrote:
On May 2, 11:14 pm, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
620...@mired.org wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2010 13:06:56 +1000
To get behavior similar to the vector constructs, you want to use
list, which works like
- or at least allow you to make the
latter look like the former - hide that specificity and encourage
reuse.
mike
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On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:36:42 -0400 Aaron Cohen remled...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org wrote:
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
5) Can I
, of course, distribute the jar file and sources under
different licenses. Depending on your reasons for wanting to use the
GPL, that may or may not meet your needs.
mike
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On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:31:58 -0700
Josh Stratton strattonbra...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 08:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
strattonbrazil strattonbra
the old one.
You need to update shared data, and that doesn't seem avoidable. In
clojure, you do that with either a ref or an atom holding the data,
depending on how you need to update it. This will make it thread safe
if/when you start running your UI objects in different threads.
mike
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the code on the fly and
continue execution.
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brought me back to that world.
If that's the case, I have to wonder how many of them grew features
comparable to masterscope, the programmers assistant, or even DWIM?
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bird})
({:number-of-feet 4, :sound ne, :animal horse})
({:number-of-feet 4, :sound howl, :animal wolf}
{:number-of-feet 4, :sound oink, :animal pig}))
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worked on.
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Anyone doing milters in clojure? Are they reasonable to do on the JVM?
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the line should be drawn, or why I draw it where I do...
inc
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will switch to the repl so you can run
it. That's almost as convenient as editing in the buffer, and much
easier in the long run.
mike
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of code with smaller sub functions etc?
Anything particularly wrong with the example I gave you?
mike
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-map on a lazy sequence
extracting the rows from a data set.
Sorry for the *really bad* question!
It's not really bad. Being able to use arbitrary things for map
indexes is surprising the first time you encounter it.
mike
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way to say please give me a creator
of the type of this object? How about a function that accepts a
hash-map as an argument and returns a sorted-map of the entries?
Thanks,
mike
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))
mike
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On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:13:28 -0800 (PST)
Daniel Werner daniel.d.wer...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Feb 16, 2:12 am, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
620...@mired.org wrote:
Wouldn't be hard to do, either. Just bind *script-name* (or some such)
to the path in script-opt, and let the client
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:35:03 +0100
Michał Marczyk michal.marc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 16 February 2010 02:12, Mike Meyer
mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote:
To bad. It's really handy, especially as it starts trickling into
system modules. You get one file that provides
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:32:45 -0800 (PST)
ataggart alex.tagg...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 6:47 pm, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.
620...@mired.org wrote:
So, the next question - possibly another name-space question.
Is there any way to tell if inside a .clj file if it was invoked
to distinguish being run as a
script from being loaded from the repl (or by another file, for that
matter).
Thanks,
mike
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alternative I know of
is to get someone who actually knows the target packaging system to
add your application as a package, properly integrated into that
packaging systems environment.
mike
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On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:08:18 -0800
Raoul Duke rao...@gmail.com wrote:
You can sometimes avoid the use of a macro by using alternative evaluation
strategies, whether that's provided by odd calling semantics, by pervasive
laziness (e.g., one can implement `if` in Haskell using a function), or
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:56:05 -0800 (PST)
Francis Lavoie lav.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
I found that blog post that make a comparison between python and
clojure.
http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2009/10/python-vs-clojure-evolving/
Note that the author has several of his facts wrong about
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:11:50 -0800 (PST)
mac markus.gustavs...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 Jan, 06:50, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.com wrote:
Debugging techniques, including:
* How to make sense of Clojure's stack traces.
* How to use Java debugging and profiling tools with Clojure.
I'd consider the idiomatic way to do debugging in a LISP.
mike
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))
TRACE t7072: |(+ 2 2)
TRACE t7072: |= 4
TRACE t7073: |(+ 4 2)
TRACE t7073: |= 6
TRACE t7071: = 6
6
and so on.
mike
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. If you're not doing concurrent programming, consider that
CPU improvement has changed from an exponential growth in raw speed to
an exponential growth in number of cores.
mike
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-opted for what I have in mind. Seems like the
natural place to start is the ability to build servlets, and those can
be grafted into whatever larger framework the user wants, but another
two days of wading through documentation could change my mind.
mike
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: Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of
those! is part of the Zen of python.
But Common Lisp had them for package management dating back to the
early 80s.
mike
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to do cycle detection and having to lock the
reference counters in concurrent environments, they just lose to many
ways. Generational garbage collectors were big last time I
looked. Given todays large address spaces, DDI might even be
acceptable again.
mike
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expensive.
mike
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is a language that you
don't enjoy programming in, and that doesn't give you the productivity
that drew you to the language in the first place?
mike
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to keep the
method-first invocation. But they also only seem to be used by a
fringe of the LISP community.
I'm not going to talk about inheritance - it's sensitive to the
underlying LISP, and I don't really know enough about Clojure to do so
intelligently.
HTH,
mike
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, or backwards, or both - is pure functional
programming. The only thing even remotely comparable to that was
learning how to write horizontal microcode.
mike
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Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html
Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more
- but you can't really fix it by hand later.
- The size of tabs suddenly *matters*.
And the biggie:
- A lot of people find this significant whitespace as off-putting as
the parenthesis in LISP. Not as many, but still a significant
number.
mike
--
Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http
contrast to STM. It's the
source of the function pre/post condition facilities that Clojure has.
mike
--
Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html
Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.
O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html
I'm sorry, but I find the whole donate thing a little
off-putting. I've just started looking into Clojure, and the thought
that the key developer might just stop working on it doesn't exactly
give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Now the evaluation will have to include
looking at the community, and trying
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