out."
Fortunately statistics show that programmers retire into management
at age 35 so we won't have to wait that long. If there is any justice,
the managers will have to hire noobs to maintain code they wrote so
they get to listen to the noobs trash talk about their code. :-)
Tim Daly
function. If no code references the library then it won't get
documented.
Any living piece of software is going to have changes made but I'm
hoping that the core remain reasonably stable. Assuming, of course, I
can distinguish core code. Reading code is SO much fun :-)
Anyway, tha
Forward from Ralf Hemmecke:
On 05/22/2014 11:21 AM, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
> I can tell you I would rather maintain the four lines of C++ without
> the largely useless commentary.
That's a simple AXIOM program, but I'm sure one can easily translate it
into any programming language.
foo(a: Intege
From: Didier Verna
ILC 2014 - International Lisp Conference
"Lisp on the Move"
August 14-17 2014, University of Montreal, Montreal, Canada
Sponsored by the Association of Lisp Users
In cooperation with: ACM SIGPLAN
> Adding complexity and weaving heapings of prose in amongst the code
> isn't going to make the developer that wrote the above rewrite it in a
> better way. You'll just end up with more bad documentation getting in
> the way of what the code actually does. Bad documentation is worse than
> no docum
Gregg,
> My original comment on litprog ("bad bad bad") was admittedly a little
> strong. I think its bad for some things, fine for others. And it's
> possible litprog conventions will evolve to address the problems some of us
> see with using it for programming in the large etc.
Could you expl
> Compare Emacs Lisp, for example, which uses semi-structure
> in the comments to drive many of its features.
Speaking of Emacs, there are (at least) two doc systems available,
the emacs "info" system and org-mode. Both of those evolved due to
a need for a better documentation system.
The claim
> Less trivial things that I would like to be able to do:
> - transclude documentation from secondary files, so that the developer
>of a piece of code sees a short piece of documentation, while users
>of code can see something longer.
> - expand the documentation system as I see fit;
will follow, and express their wishes for the future.
* Prologue: These comments give introductory remarks before a major section
of code. A typical example can include the functions's purpose, return
value, constraints on input, or even implementation details.
* Unclassified
===
complete, efficent, and well integrated
with the rest of the design.
This isn't really a technology problem. We have the skill to create
any technology we want. The problem is social. There needs to be a
focus on creating "professional standards". We need to raise the bar
of w
ore you with it.
What I don't understand is your criteria for "what's important" and
how that translates to action.
If we can agree on "what's important" then the technical details would
have common criteria for "simple and good enough vs something that&#
TeX is viewed as a document markup language but it is turing
complete. Occasionally people get ambitious. Here is
executable lisp in a Latex document:
ctan.org/pkg/lisp-on-tex
Perhaps some bright spot can do a Clojure-in-tex during the
next Google summer of code :-)
Tim Daly
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--
You
han one package (namespace) so I guess I just haven't
seen this as an issue. Styles vary.
If you're using namespaces I presume you're also exporting an API.
Logically that implies that the namespace and its functions would live
in a separate chapter I suppose.
Tim Daly
-
s, adjacent and intermixed with
the code, but written for humans-to-human communication. Clojure
is heavy with great ideas and they need to be communicated intact.
Tim Daly
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Re: org-mode.
I stand corrected. Some days my religious zeal overwhelms my fingers.
Thanks for setting the record straight.
Tim
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> Find me a person who fluently used paredit that stopped and reverted back to
> manual parenthesis manipulation.
/me raises my hand.
Structural editing was useful in LispVM (on IBM mainframes) where the
display was 12 lines by 40 characters. It might also be useful for the
iPad lisping app. If
to another person. This almost certainly involves reordering
and restructuring code. The machinery needed to support literate
programming is trivial. See
http://axiom-developer.org/axiom-website/litprog.html
> ... (snip) ...
> * Tim Daly posted a tool that lets him essentially writ
ot;the person" who holds it all together?
Is your whole project "dead code" if certain people leave?
If you want your code to live, communicate.
Write words for people who will maintain your code but you'll never meet.
Tim Daly
Knuth fanboi
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well-connected people, a nice check, and a chance
to speak at a LISP conference.
Best of all, they don't even have to be literate programs! :-)
Tim Daly
Elder of the Internet
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To pos
at push/pull git-like updates among themselves?
A clone of Hacker News in Clojure would be a good GSOC project
as it is well defined and small enough for a single person effort.
Tim Daly
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academic institution? Perhaps we could get
together and see if we can apply for an interesting grant for some
Clojure-related work.
Konrad.
In theory I am affiliated with Carnegie-Mellon University.
Tim Daly
This is too much of a coincidence minutes after I hit enter to send
this note I
academic institution? Perhaps we could get together and see if we can
apply for an interesting grant for some Clojure-related work.
Konrad.
In theory I am affiliated with Carnegie-Mellon University.
Tim Daly
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On 18 Jan 2011, at 07:37, Tim Daly wrote:
I have just finished
Language Virtualization for Heterogeneous Parallel Computing
http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/148814/files/paper.pdf
Me too!
Clojure clearly fulfills all of the goals of a virtualization language
because it is a Lisp. Lisp
image.
This paper provides a potential way to write parallel code for specific
domains. It attracted multi-million euro funding and could represent a
specific way forward for parallel Clojure programs.
Tim Daly
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up at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Very interesting. I wonder if Clojure can be one of the polymorphic targets.
Certainly the Clojure macro facility can "lift" raw Clojure toward the DSL.
Sigh. Yet more papers to read. :-)
Tim Daly
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ator of the sequence to control the chunking
in the sequence directly. We also talked a little about Guy's talk
and idea of marking a function (in meta) as associative and
appropriate for use in a parallel reduce.
On Jan 16, 1:13 pm, Tim Daly wrote:
Steele is advocating binaries
P) and the
partitioning of a problem for parallel work.
If the bit-partitioning is variable as a function of
the "size of the work pieces" and "the number of
parallel processors", that is,
(partition chunksize processors)
then we can dynamically decide how to break up a
computation
Guy Steele recently gave a talk about thinking about parallel programming.
For those of us who are looking at Clojure in a parallel setting (e.g.
MPI, Hadoop)
this might be of interest:
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Thinking-Parallel-Programming
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.
And, on a technical note, the clojure.sty file is
no longer needs as I rewrote the latex macros.
Tim Daly
P.S. the tangle.c code is still up on the website at:
http://daly.axiom-developer.org/tangle.c
although you don't need it as it is in the pamphlet.
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ral purpose packages which contain functions
to handle file systems.
Since lisp uses naked functions there is no natural map from
functions to filenames.
In sum, I'm suggesting that it isn't very lispy to use
hierarchical namespace naming conventions.
Tim Daly
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Sweet! Thanks for the pointer.
It is a challenge to reverse-engineer someone else's code.
It is even more challenging to understand how it relates
to the algorithm and the idea. This will help a lot.
Tim Daly
On 1/8/2011 6:22 AM, Robert McIntyre wrote:
You may find
http://blog.h
Rich has suggested the book "Spikes" ISBN 0-262-68108-0
which is about exploring the neural code. This was
mentioned in his Whitehead video.
On 1/6/2011 7:40 PM, Michael Aldred wrote:
G'day Arie,
You have to be very careful about listening to things Ray Kurzweil
says when he's talking about th
On 1/6/2011 11:42 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:15 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
And then of course the overarching purpose of Clojure itself isn't
even given, let alone why it has sorted-map, and why it's an immutable
sorted-map ...
is written it can benefit from the
"many eyes" of open source to improve the style and accuracy
of presentation. In that way we all end up developing a document
that quickly brings up the average quality material for developers.
Tim Daly
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On 1/6/2011 12:07 PM, Michael Wood wrote:
Hi
On 6 January 2011 07:33, Tim Daly wrote:
[...]
Take a look at http://daly.axiom-developer.org/clojure.pdf
I like it :)
Some simple corrections:
You have a typo on the front page:
"Based on Version 1.3.0-alphs4" (alphs4 instead of al
On 1/6/2011 11:16 AM, Eric Schulte wrote:
Tim Daly writes:
On 1/6/2011 12:03 AM, Eric Schulte wrote:
Can you post examples of these? I'd love to see some other examples.
Sure thing, check out this old version of a file which tangles out into
the directory layout expected by lein.
essary (but not
sufficient) for the I2I property to hold.
I think that the tool you have is very, very nice. It shows me that
it would make a proper substitute for my beloved Latex as a viable
alternative for literate programming.
Tim Daly
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On 1/5/2011 11:19 PM, Eric Schulte wrote:
Emacs org-mode, on the other hand, is a useful development
technology but it really isn't literate programming.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts as to why Org-mode is not a
literate programming tool.
I never said org-mode wasn't a 'literat
On 1/5/2011 11:18 PM, Eric Schulte wrote:
Mark Engelberg writes:
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Eric Schulte wrote:
For the most up-to-date and comprehensive documentation of using
Org-mode to work with code blocks (e.g. Literate Programming or
Reproducible Research) the online manual is
st an example of
a literate document using org-mode. We can then compare and contrast,
as my English teacher used to say. It would be interesting to see another
example of a literate document for Clojure. Slime and org-mode may
be the proper way to go.
Tim Daly
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On 1/5/2011 10:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
On 1/5/2011 8:27 PM, Mark Engelberg wrote:
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Eric Schulte
wrote:
For the most up-to-date and comprehensive documentation of using
Org-mode to work with code blocks (e.g
On 1/5/2011 8:27 PM, Mark Engelberg wrote:
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Eric Schulte wrote:
For the most up-to-date and comprehensive documentation of using
Org-mode to work with code blocks (e.g. Literate Programming or
Reproducible Research) the online manual is also very useful.
In lit
anual/Exporting.html
I am truly impressed with the number of formats org-mode can
support. Of course, I expect nothing less as a heavy emacs user.
Tim Daly writes:
I looked at org-mode.
Note that 'literate programming' involves writing literature
for other people to read. The executable code
-edge developers. Literate
programming
is just the right kind of challenge for innovating away from the past.
Besides, wouldn't it be great if the community could point at "the Clojure
book", like the Lisp community points to "the Steele book"? Steele managed
to organize
The new version of Clojure in Small Pieces is up at:
http://daly.axiom-developer.org/clojure.pdf
http://daly.axiom-developer.org/clojure.pamphlet
http://daly.axiom-developer.org/clojure.sty
This version of the literate document contains a
complete, working system. The steps for building
it are
that
there is a reason why the idea is implemented in a particular
way rather than 'just because it worked'. Literate programming
tends to improve code quality because you have to explain it.
Emacs org-mode, on the other hand, is a useful development
technology but it really isn't lite
I thought it was also but it appears to be used in place
of string, which I thought was odd. I'll look again.
Thanks for the answers.
On 1/4/2011 11:38 AM, Robert McIntyre wrote:
the #"" is a reader macro for regexes.
hope that helps,
--Robert McIntyre
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 a
The latest version of clojure.pamphlet can build Clojure
directly from the book. It dynamically builds the source
tree from the book, runs tests, creates the pdf, and
starts the REPL.
At least in theory. I am stuck with running a couple
tests. The only real change I've made to the sources
is to
On 12/31/2010 10:36 AM, Robert McIntyre wrote:
This looks very cool, and the opportunities for fully exploiting the
power of a cross-referenced book format are very appealing
Might I suggest two possible improvements:
1) Colored syntax highlighting for all clojure code.
2) Cross references for
On 12/31/2010 3:36 AM, Sunil S Nandihalli wrote:
Here is quick summary of results I obtained by googling.
There are bunch of libraries out there ... among them are
1. mpiJava a java wrapper for the corresponding c libraries but seems
dated...
2. MPJExpress .. seems to be under more active d
Literature references are especially welcome. I have a few,
such as the Multi-Version Concurrency Control papers, which
will be added when I get to the STM section.
In any case, this is purely an experiment in literate clojure.
Feedback is welcome.
Tim Daly
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orget the jar file. Send me the pamphlet containing Clojure.
Programming will come out of the dark ages when we employ English
majors as project leads with the title "Editor in Chief". If you
can explain it to an English major in text, you probably understand
the problem :-)
Let's mo
On 12/26/2010 9:56 PM, Praki Prakash wrote:
Tim,
This approach is very interesting. My choice of mode for LP has always
been noweb-mode but it doesn't seem to work with my version of emacs
anymore. My current approach is to embed prose and clojure code in a
latex document and generate a .te
; 0 AUTHOR and LICENSE
; 1 ABSTRACT and USE CASES
; 2 THE LATEX SUPPORT CODE
; 3 IMPORTS
; 4 THE TANGLE COMMAND
; 5 SAY
; 6 READ-FILE
; 7 ISCHUNK
; 8 HASHCHUNKS
; 9 EXPAND
; 10 TANGLE
;;; 0 AUTHOR and LICENSE
;;
Some christmas day video entertainment:
STM at Microsoft
http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Software-Transactional-Memory-The-Current-State-of-the-Art
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site:
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/lamport/pubs/pubs.html
Tim Daly
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This is another view of the Clojure STM idea, from the Haskell camp:
http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Programming-in-the-Age-of-Concurrency-Software-Transactional-Memory
Recently, we visited MSR Cambridge(UK) to meet some of the great minds
working there. In this case, we were fortuna
ng", etc. I was
"getting the STM and immutability concepts" but those were not
sufficient to establish (for me) "Lisp". Your enlightenment may vary.
Tim Daly
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To p
such, it suggests that
"Advocacy is volunteering". If you advocate better documentation and
well-written summaries then volunteer to do it.
Tim Daly
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On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Daly
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Daly
wrote:
On 12/19
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Daly
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Daly
wrote:
I didn&#
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Daly
wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the "ah-hah!" experience
On 12/19/2010 8:33 PM, Eric Schulte wrote:
Tim Daly writes:
Haskell has neat ideas but I've seen them before in lisp-based
systems. I work in a language which is strongly typed, allows
currying, is functional, etc., implemented in Common Lisp. I have
not found the "ah-hah!&q
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the "ah-hah!" experience with
other languages. However, I have only had
the (before lisp)|(after lisp) experience
with lisp.
,
"I've got an object hammer so everything is an
object nail" approach.
Tim Daly
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t; moment occurred I didn't know that
it was my working definition of Lisp.
Tim Daly
"Your enlightment may vary" :-)
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Note tha
in
over my career, Lisp has been the one language that
truly changed the way I understood programming. Many
people have mentioned the "ah hah!" moment when
speaking about Lisp.
Tim Daly
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T
you suddenly
"get it". This does not seem to happen with other languages.
There is a distinct "before vs after" when you suddenly
internalize the language and IT changes YOU.
I recently felt that moment with Clojure.
Did anyone else experience the "ah-hah!"?
Tim Daly
-
, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote:
Hi,
Am 19.12.2010 um 00:07 schrieb Tim Daly:
Is it possible to dispatch based on the return type/value?
That is, can I write a multimethods dispatch to distinguish
+(float,float) -> float
+(float,float) -> int
(defmulti + (fn [x y ret] (vector (type x) (type
Is it possible to dispatch based on the return type/value?
That is, can I write a multimethods dispatch to distinguish
+(float,float) -> float
+(float,float) -> int
Tim Daly
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To po
This is an interesting read:
Solving the Expression Problem:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-clojure-protocols/index.html
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most of
Yegge's concerns about Lisp adoption. Thanks to Alex, I think that the
answer is almost certainly "yes".
@Tim Daly: I don't know a lot about Lisp, but I do know a little bit
about rhetoric vs. rationality, and that post had the ring of truth to
it. It read like the
Steve is trolling with that Lisp post.
There is so much noise in what he says,
there is no point beginning to reply.
And all of it would be off-topic.
Ignore it.
Tim Daly
On 12/14/2010 11:23 PM, Alex Osborne wrote:
javajosh writes:
Just ran across:
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006
I am currently working on an MPI package for Clojure.
This crossed my mailbox and may be of interest to the
clojure community.
Tim Daly
~~
4th European Lisp Symposium
Special Focus on
If you are interested in Monads or want a good
example of why macros are really useful, this is
worth studying:
http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-monad-macros/monad-macros.htm
It is in common lisp but could probably be translated
to clojure by some bright-spot.
Tim Daly
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For those who were not around when the Common Lisp
standard was being debated you might find this interesting:
http://lisp.geek.nz/weekly-repl/
Common Lisp Standardization: The good, the bad, and the ugly
by Peter Seibel
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On 12/8/2010 4:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote:
Hi,
Am 08.12.2010 um 22:06 schrieb Tim Daly:
There are 2 kinds of lisps based on the meaning of a symbol.
Symbols have structure "slots".
And then there is clojure where symbols are just symbols without any slots. When the
mbol, not a function so you get an error.
In a lisp that evaluates the first slot until it gets a
function then
((quote +) 2 3) ==> (+ 2 3) ==> ( 2 3) ==> 5
Tim Daly
On 12/8/2010 2:40 PM, javajosh wrote:
I was looking at quote.
user=> (quote 1)
1
user=> (quote)
nil
user=> (q
Ask Rich if you can use his Ants example.
His comment about running it on the Azul(?) machine
is interesting.
On 12/7/2010 7:56 PM, Alex Baranosky wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm going to be doing a 15 minute Clojure lighting talk in a few weeks
for work. I've been having trouble finding a nice topic fo
In a common lisp setting a symbol could be represented
as vector containing slots. Two of the slots are of interest,
the function slot and the value slot. The symbol looks like:
--
| function | value | package | alist |
---
ve Lisp programmer who would have created
the slide deck I saw. Native Java programmers have no equivalent
construct to macros (no, decorations are not macros) so they would
find macros complex, limited, and obscure.
Tim Daly
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On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, Laurent PETIT wrote:
2010/10/30 Tim Daly:
Macros in lisp get used for three general purposes, at least
in my experience.
The first purpose is efficiency. In common lisp you will find
that you can generate very machine-efficient (aka optimized
fortran level) binary
It is worth learning to write macros just
for that insight alone.
Tim Daly
On 10/28/2010 3:55 PM, Raoul Duke wrote:
hi,
not looking to stir up a pot, looking to learn from people's
experience. i've heard that in CL land, one is told to avoid macros as
long as possible. i've heard
Has anyone thought about putting clojure on javascript?
Tim Daly
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I use emacs to write Java code for work.
I even use fundamental mode because I don't want emacs
changing my buffer while I work.
I don't find that IDEs add any value to programming
and they often get in my way.
I guess I must be part amish :-)
Tim Daly
On 10/27/2010 12:10 PM, M
would allow all kinds of dispatching control.
Tim Daly
On 10/25/2010 5:55 PM, Mark Nutter wrote:
So in this particular case I wouldn't care, but in general I'd expect
the prefer-method stuff to kick in. :)
Oops, forgot about prefer-method. My noobishness is showing again.
Well, in for
It will also give a firm basis for discussing ideas.
Tim Daly
On 10/25/2010 5:54 AM, Mark Nutter wrote:
I tried to have a go at this, but then I realized it's a bit difficult
to specify. For example, if you have
(defmethod bar [42 _] ..) ; and
(defmethod bar [_ 16] ..)
which one should be
There is a movement afoot in the common lisp community to
implement quicklisp which is similar to the perl cpan site
or debian. It would be useful if there was a quicklisp (or
asdf) for Clojure. Thus you could "apt-get" a library for
clojure.
Tim Daly
On 9/27/2010 1:47 AM, David Sle
t;byte codes" were and they were still able to generate code (curiously
they tended to be "design pattern programmers" so there may be a
connection).
See http://dj-java-decompiler.software.informer.com/3.9 for a piece
of software that can show the byte codes. There are many others
In common lisp I use the (disassemble) function which generally
gives back an assembler listing of the code that would be executed.
Is there a Java function which will return the byte codes that get
executed? Could this be used to create a (disassemble) function for
Clojure? Having such a functio
Actually what you seem to be trying to do is create a new kind
of defn function which creates named functions as a side-effect.
This is similar to the common lisp defstruct function which
creates accessors. Define your own "defn" function, such as
"defthing" and let it do the side-effects for you
trong story line. Good code, like good characters, should have
strong motivations for what gets done. We should just be able to download
the Clojure "book", read it, and execute it.
Maybe Stu can get his book editor on board :-)
Tim Daly
Joop Kiefte wrote:
To have a good idea of how
t
to find a discussion of why 32-way trie-like structures are used in
data structures or why data structures are immutable. This information
is available in some videos but has not been associated with the code.
Tim Daly
Mark Engelberg wrote:
I spent some time recently documenting a large clojure
each level of structure. If your "pretty-printer" says that all
(defun) forms (well, (defn) forms) are "required" to start in
column 1 then this loses the semantics of my nesting. There are
no general rules that cover all of the things I can think in lisp.
That makes lisp co
y, lisp doesn't care.
Since it is still "in the early days" of Clojure it might be a
good idea to follow the style set in clojure core.clj. You never
know when your code might become a candidate for inclusion and
the last thing you want is to be rejected for style.
Tim Daly
kyle smith
re certain operations
I cannot do unless I'm connected. It's the late 90s
and this shouldn't be a blocking issue anymore.
Can I git-clone Maven so it will reach for a local repo?
Can I git-clone Clojure with a standalone build system?
Tim Daly
B Smith-Mannschott wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2
David Nolen wrote:
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:36 AM, Tim Daly <mailto:d...@axiom-developer.org>> wrote:
Televisions vs Monitors.
This is the whole point of deftype/defrecord and protocols. To get the
absolute best performance of the platform without having the pollute
ication but
tries to keep the Java "false" boolean idea around but I find that it
makes coding somewhat more tedious.
In Clojure, nil does not map to false in some cases and it always
comes as a surprise to me. I know that Scheme broke the unification,
which always surprises me and why
suggesting
that the whole set of classes get wrapped in a phantom method.
The code that comes out of the compiler does not need to mirror
the code that went into the compiler. That's the whole point of
doing compiler optimizations.
Perhaps a literature pointer could make the restriction c
Write a compiler routine to detect tail recursion.
It is my (limited) understanding that Java can perform
tail recursion elimination but only under limited
conditions.
Is there a way to detect tail recursion in Clojure and
dynamically rewrite the code to do real recursion rather
than using recur
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