Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to 
Ameriprise/Progressive.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
> U.S. policies now issued by Geico.  
> 
> I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
> found the following provision:
> 
> "We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
> with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
> Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 20th 
> year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 20% 
> residual value regardless of age."
> 
> I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.  
> This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had 
> not informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of 
> $64), an endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but 
> only for the hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do not 
> normally offer this endorsement unless the boat is less than 10 years old (So 
> what's the value in that?).  In my mind, that endorsement is worthless - just 
> think about that nice $2,000 chart plotter that gets fried by lightning...
> 
> For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only resulted 
> in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last boat, (a 
> 1977) only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd just go bare!  
> The policy I had in place until last week was slightly more expensive. but 
> does not include a depreciation provision of that magnitude.  
> 
> I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their coverage 
> and move it to a company that does not apply depreciation as soon as 
> possible. 
> 
> 1).  I am embarrassed to have to admit that as a person with 30+ years in the 
> insurance industry, I had not read my policy.
> 2).  The person I spoke with on the phone confirmed that this was not a 
> provision of the prior CNA policies issued through Boat U.S.
> 3). I consider this bad faith on the part of the insurer and the licensed 
> brokers at Boat U.S.  I intend to file a formal complaint with the Florida 
> Department of Insurance accordingly.
> 
> This is exactly the kind of thing that would get me involved in an Errors & 
> Omissions claim if I did this to a client, and I made that abundantly clear 
> to the person I was talking to at Boat U.S.
> 
> I will also post this on other boards.
>  
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"  
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
U.S. policies now issued by Geico.  

I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
found the following provision:
"We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 20th 
year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 20% 
residual value regardless of age."
I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.  
This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had not 
informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of $64), an 
endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but only for the 
hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do not normally offer 
this endorsement unless the boat is less than 10 years old (So what's the value 
in that?).  In my mind, that endorsement is worthless - just think about that 
nice $2,000 chart plotter that gets fried by lightning...

For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only resulted 
in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last boat, (a 1977) 
only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd just go bare!  The 
policy I had in place until last week was slightly more expensive. but does not 
include a depreciation provision of that magnitude.  

 I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their coverage 
and move it to a company that does not apply depreciation as soon as possible. 

1).  I am embarrassed to have to admit that as a person with 30+ years in the 
insurance industry, I had not read my policy.2).  The person I spoke with on 
the phone confirmed that this was not a provision of the prior CNA policies 
issued through Boat U.S.
3). I consider this bad faith on the part of the insurer and the licensed 
brokers at Boat U.S.  I intend to file a formal complaint with the Florida 
Department of Insurance accordingly.
This is exactly the kind of thing that would get me involved in an Errors & 
Omissions claim if I did this to a client, and I made that abundantly clear to 
the person I was talking to at Boat U.S.

I will also post this on other boards. Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"  
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

sorry, I should have read this email before responding.  I do not know the 
answer, I need to re-read the contract.  (I was in the Coast Guard so salvage 
was not on my mind so much.)  Maybe something to brush up on.

Leslie.


On Thu, 2/8/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
 To: "'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'" 
 Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
 Date: Thursday, February 8, 2018, 3:58 AM
 
 Let me expand on that:
 My BOATUS coverage has salvage coverage
 for the full hull value. I could be covered for a total loss
 to hull value AND a salvage claim to full hull value. Absent
 that, the salvor would get paid and I would not.
 
 Joe Della Barba
 Coquina
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
 Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 6:52
 AM
 To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
 Cc: Della Barba, Joe
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance
 issues
 
 Does that include separate salvage
 coverage?
 Joe
 Coquina
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018
 10:05 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance
 issues
 
 Wow.  Does that include racing?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Leslie Paal via CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:02
 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Leslie Paal
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance
 issues
 
 well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been
 insured with Allstate without any questions.  I did not
 have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium was
 $180 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras,
 spill, 3rd party, etc.)
 
 Leslie
 Phoenix C 1983
 
 
 On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via
 CnC-List 
 wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance
 issues
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
 
 Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
 Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41
 AM
 
 My Allstate agent said no way
 would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
 I had
 one claim with BOATUS and I could not
 be happier with the service. Basically "get it fixed, have
 the yard fax us the bill". We hit an underwater something,
 not sure what, and it bent the prop shaft.
 
 
 
 Joe Della
 Barba
 Coquina
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via
 CnC-List
 Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46
 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Howard and Skippy 
 Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 Insurance experience
 My C 35-3 has been insured by
 Allstate for the last 25 years and I have experience with 3
 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut with my son at
 the helm, doing about 8 kts with the big chute up, we hit an
 unseen, underground spire submerged 6' below the surface.
 20k later Allstate covered all but the 500 deductible and
 there was no increase in rate which has held at about 5-600
 with an insured value of 60k + 6k for "accessories" for the
 duration of
 coverage.   About 10-15 years ago,
 the
 boat, during a storm, was blown off its
 jack stands when the cover caught one of the stands causing
 hull and rigging damage. some 20+k later, Allstate handled
 the claim speedily and without premium increase.
 The boat was
 totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a
 45K payout, Allstate
 
 gave me the boat along with the check.
 I used the $ to rebuild the boat and she is as good as or
 better now than new. There has been no real
 
 increase in premium. I can only praise
 Allstate in that they are 1/2 the
 cost of
 Boat US, have been easy to work with
 and have stuck with me
 
 through  3 major incidents.
 Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is greatly
 appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --  
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is greatly
 appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --  
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting this
 list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
 use 
 PayPal to send contribution --  
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting this
 list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If 

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

it includes removing if it sinks and it is a navigational hazard, also cleaning 
up any spills.  (We do not have hurricanes so I do not know what would be 
covered.)  The loss of the boat is covered.

Leslie.


On Thu, 2/8/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
 To: "'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'" 
 Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
 Date: Thursday, February 8, 2018, 3:51 AM
 
 Does that include separate
 salvage coverage?
 Joe
 Coquina
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 10:05 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
 Subject:
 Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 Wow.  Does that include racing?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Leslie Paal via CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:02 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Leslie Paal
 Subject: Re:
 Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured
 with Allstate without any questions.  I did not have any
 claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium was $180
 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras, spill,
 3rd party, etc.)
 
 Leslie
 Phoenix C 1983
 
 
 On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
 
 wrote:
 
 Subject: Re:
 Stus-List Insurance issues
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
 
 Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
 Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM
 
 My Allstate agent said no
 way
 would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
 I had
 one claim with BOATUS and
 I could not be happier with the service. Basically "get
 it fixed, have the yard fax us the bill". We hit an
 underwater something, not sure what, and it bent the prop
 shaft.
 
 
 
 Joe Della
 Barba
 Coquina
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
 Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Howard and Skippy 
 Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 Insurance experience
 My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate
 for the last 25 years and I have experience with 3 major
 claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut with my son at the
 helm, doing about 8 kts with the big chute up, we hit an
 unseen, underground spire submerged 6' below the
 surface. 20k later Allstate covered all but the 500
 deductible and there was no increase in rate which has held
 at about 5-600 with an insured value of 60k + 6k for
 "accessories" for the duration of
 coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the
 boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack
 stands when the cover caught one of the stands causing hull
 and rigging damage. some 20+k later, Allstate handled the
 claim speedily and without premium increase.
 The boat was
 totaled in Super
 Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate
 
 gave me the boat along with
 the check. I used the $ to rebuild the boat and she is as
 good as or better now than new. There has been no real
 
 increase in premium. I can
 only praise
 Allstate in that they are 1/2
 the
 cost of
 Boat US, have
 been easy to work with and have stuck with me
 
 through  3 major
 incidents.
 Howard Paul, skipper Knot
 Again
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for
 supporting
 this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is greatly
 appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for
 supporting
 this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is greatly
 appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want 

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

no racing (I race on other people's boat, too much organizational work).

Leslie.


On Wed, 2/7/18, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford" 
 Date: Wednesday, February 7, 2018, 7:05 PM
 
 Wow.  Does that include
 racing?
 
 -Original
 Message- 
 From: Leslie Paal via
 CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018
 9:02 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Leslie Paal
 Subject: Re:
 Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured
 with Allstate without any 
 questions.  I
 did not have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last
 premium 
 was $180 (about) with good coverage
 (inc. full value, extras, spill, 3rd 
 party,
 etc.)
 
 Leslie
 Phoenix C 1983
 
 
 On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
 
 wrote:
 
 Subject: Re:
 Stus-List Insurance issues
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
 
 Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
 Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM
 
 My Allstate agent said no
 way
 would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
 I had
 one claim with BOATUS and
 I could not be happier with the
 service.
 Basically "get it fixed, have the yard fax us
 the bill". We hit an underwater something,
 not sure
 what, and it bent the prop
 shaft.
 
 
 
 Joe Della
 Barba
 Coquina
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
 Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Howard and Skippy 
 Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 Insurance experience
 My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate
 for the last 25 years and I
 have experience
 with 3 major
 claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut
 with
 my son at the helm, doing about 8 kts with
 the big chute up, we hit
 an
 unseen,
 underground spire submerged 6'
 below the surface. 20k
 later
 Allstate covered all but the 500
 deductible and there was no increase in
 rate which has held at about 5-600 with an
 insured value of 60k + 6k for
 "accessories" for the duration of
 coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the
 boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack
 stands when the cover
 caught
 one of the
 stands causing hull and rigging
 damage. some 20+k
 later, Allstate handled
 the claim speedily and
 without premium
 increase.
 The boat was
 totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K
 payout, Allstate
 
 gave me
 the boat along with the check. I
 used the $
 to rebuild the boat
 and she is
 as good as or better now than new. There has
 been no real
 
 increase in
 premium. I can only praise
 Allstate in that
 they are 1/2 the
 cost of
 Boat US, have been easy to work with and have
 stuck with me
 
 through  3
 major incidents.
 Howard Paul, skipper Knot
 Again
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for
 supporting
 this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support
 the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution
 --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for
 supporting
 this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support
 the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution
 --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and 
 every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want
 to support the list - use 
 PayPal to send
 contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Eric Baumes via CnC-List]

You mentioned the $0 deductible that Geico/BoatUS now "provides". While
that is technically true, it has been replaced with a depreciation curve on
parts. I found this out this year after a claim.

I had to have my steering pedestal replaced after a weather related
incident. The new parts were depreciated (either by 40% or to 40% cant
remember). So under the old $500 deductible that is what I would have paid.
Under the new scheme I wound up paying $700+ for the depreciation on the
parts.

A friend of mine also had a claim this year after a grounding, the cost of
which was several times the cost of the pedestal. He paid about the same
out of pocked because the bulk of the repair was labor.

We were talking about this and discussed what would happen if either of our
boats (20+ and 30+ years old) were to be dis masted. If the boat were not
totaled, the bulk of the repair would be parts (spar and rigging) which
would be depreciated by some %. If the total repair were 40k of which 30k
or more were parts and the depreciation were 50% you could be on the hook
for 15k.

I have had BoatUS for more than 15 years across three boats. and I have had
claims for a lightning strike, named storm damage and the most recent
claim. I can say they have always been responsive and great to work with.

That said, their new "no deductible" policy has me seriously considering
shopping for a new policy.

Eric
C 34/36+



On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 10:48 AM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Staying with BoatUS too.   Got a few other quotes and was not impressed
> especially as I have $0 deductible now.   I have heard all good things when
> the you-know-what hits the fan and you have to file a claim.
>
>
> And.  Just called them to add our 9' restored Dyer sail Dink.   She made a
> note and the little guy is insured for 5k.   Easy Peasy.  Both dinghys
> insured under the Mother Ship.
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 6, 2018 10:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
>
> My Allstate agent said no way would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
> I had one claim with BOATUS and I could not be happier with the service.
> Basically "get it fixed, have the yard fax us the bill". We hit an
> underwater something, not sure what, and it bent the prop shaft.
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via
> CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Howard and Skippy 
> Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues
>
> Insurance experience
> My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate for the last 25 years and I
> have experience with 3 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut
> with my son at the helm, doing about 8 kts with the big chute up, we hit
> an unseen, underground spire submerged 6' below the surface. 20k later
> Allstate covered all but the 500 deductible and there was no increase in
> rate which has held at about 5-600 with an insured value of 60k + 6k for
> "accessories" for the duration of coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the
> boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack stands when the cover
> caught one of the stands causing hull and rigging damage. some 20+k
> later, Allstate handled the claim speedily and without premium increase.
> The boat was totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate
> gave me the boat along with the check. I used the $ to rebuild the boat
> and she is as good as or better now than new. There has been no real
> increase in premium. I can only praise Allstate in that they are 1/2 the
> cost of Boat US, have been easy to work with and have stuck with me
> through  3 major incidents.
> Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://nam02.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%
> 2Fstumurray=02%7C01%7C%7C2d1535e551044a773fcd08d56d784144%
> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636535285608621984=
> 0epYV5YAyA2O2gJD%2FAHLHbt37OJquMvAy9GB%2BNq1Zmw%3D=0
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://nam02.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%
> 2Fstumurray=02%7C01%7C%7C2d1535e551044a773fcd08d56d784144%
> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636535285608621984=
> 

Stus-List Mountable Water Filter For Sale

[Dan via CnC-List]

Hey Guys, so I've removed some unused plumbing, including a water filter
(see photo - link below).
I cleaned it up - the inside was pristine. - It's in excellent shape and
very re-useable...

trades? offers?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12TWUN1oiyiACR0IvaBKlEo2HqdzPMmqY?usp=sharing

Something like this one, but not the high-flow pre-tank version:

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--mountable-highflo-kdf-water-filter--13915137?recordNum=2

Dan
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax, NS
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

http://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organization/Assistant-Commandant-for-Prevention-Policy-CG-5P/Inspections-Compliance-CG-5PC-/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center-Contact-Info/

They have limited phone hours due to multiple severe budget cuts. They 
also have email and snail mail addresses to try. It's all there. :-)


Bill Bina


On 2/8/2018 12:43 PM, Dreuge via CnC-List wrote:
I wish it was that simple.  the NVDC site caters to those questions 
regarding the application for and renewal of certificate of 
documentation.  As for the phone number, I have tried to call.  After 
going through many levels of menu options, I got a message that said 
enter 1 to leave a message, and when I entered 1, I only got a message 
stating “Sorry the mailbox is full”


The question at that time was why is my vessel name listed on the 
documentation with an asterisk as in “JOHANNA ROSE    *"




-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

On Feb 8, 2018, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:



The only answers that matter are here:



They even have phone support if you can't find the answer to a question
somewhere on their very complete website, or need some help interpreting
anything.

I think you surrender your state title when applying for documentation.
Even if you didn't, I know for certain that the state title becomes null
and void when a vessel is documented. The Federal Documentation "is"
your title.

Bill Bina




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

I wish it was that simple.  the NVDC site caters to those questions regarding 
the application for and renewal of certificate of documentation.  As for the 
phone number, I have tried to call.  After going through many levels of menu 
options, I got a message that said enter 1 to leave a message, and when I 
entered 1, I only got a message stating “Sorry the mailbox is full”

The question at that time was why is my vessel name listed on the documentation 
with an asterisk as in “JOHANNA ROSE*"



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Feb 8, 2018, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> 
> The only answers that matter are here:
> 
>   
> >
> 
> They even have phone support if you can't find the answer to a question 
> somewhere on their very complete website, or need some help interpreting 
> anything.
> 
> I think you surrender your state title when applying for documentation. 
> Even if you didn't, I know for certain that the state title becomes null 
> and void when a vessel is documented. The Federal Documentation "is" 
> your title.
> 
> Bill Bina

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD question

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

The only answers that matter are here:



They even have phone support if you can't find the answer to a question 
somewhere on their very complete website, or need some help interpreting 
anything.


I think you surrender your state title when applying for documentation. 
Even if you didn't, I know for certain that the state title becomes null 
and void when a vessel is documented. The Federal Documentation "is" 
your title.


Bill Bina


On 2/8/2018 9:52 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:

Interesting question, but I’m not ready to go another round.
I’m surprised the Feds would have proceeded to document a boat that is 
State titled.  My guess is that the Federal statute says something 
about this (like State title being nullified upon issuance of federal 
documentation), but who knows.  Perhaps someone on this list does.

*From:* Dreuge via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:50 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
*Cc:* Dreuge 
*Subject:* Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD question
Hi,
I have both a state title and USCG certificate of documentation.  This 
is only because I registered the vessel with the state first, but if I 
documented first, I would not have a state title.
Let’s say I foolishly sign over my state title to one person while at 
the same time I sign over my USCG CoD to another person.  Who has 
legal rights to take the vessel.   I’m guessing the one with federal 
documentation, but I’m also thinking that the one who pays the state 
registration and taxes first may have an edge, at least with local 
authorities, at getting possession (which as the saying goes is 9/10 
of the law).



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD question

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Interesting question, but I’m not ready to go another round.

I’m surprised the Feds would have proceeded to document a boat that is State 
titled.  My guess is that the Federal statute says something about this (like 
State title being nullified upon issuance of federal documentation), but who 
knows.  Perhaps someone on this list does.

From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dreuge 
Subject: Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD question

Hi, 

I have both a state title and USCG certificate of documentation.  This is only 
because I registered the vessel with the state first, but if I documented 
first, I would not have a state title.

Let’s say I foolishly sign over my state title to one person while at the same 
time I sign over my USCG CoD to another person.  Who has legal rights to take 
the vessel.   I’m guessing the one with federal documentation, but I’m also 
thinking that the one who pays the state registration and taxes first may have 
an edge, at least with local authorities, at getting possession (which as the 
saying goes is 9/10 of the law). 



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD question

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Paul

Had a similar case.  State titled boat with a loan.  Boat was then
documented.  I (on behalf of a bankruptcy trustee) was able to avoid the
bank lien because there was no Preferred Ship's Mortgage recorded when the
boat was documented.

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 8:50 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have both a state title and USCG certificate of documentation.  This is
> only because I registered the vessel with the state first, but if I
> documented first, I would not have a state title.
>
> Let’s say I foolishly sign over my state title to one person while at the
> same time I sign over my USCG CoD to another person.  Who has legal rights
> to take the vessel.   I’m guessing the one with federal documentation, but
> I’m also thinking that the one who pays the state registration and taxes
> first may have an edge, at least with local authorities, at getting
> possession (which as the saying goes is 9/10 of the law).
>
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Federal v. State: both state title and CoD question

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Hi,

I have both a state title and USCG certificate of documentation.  This is only 
because I registered the vessel with the state first, but if I documented 
first, I would not have a state title.

Let’s say I foolishly sign over my state title to one person while at the same 
time I sign over my USCG CoD to another person.  Who has legal rights to take 
the vessel.   I’m guessing the one with federal documentation, but I’m also 
thinking that the one who pays the state registration and taxes first may have 
an edge, at least with local authorities, at getting possession (which as the 
saying goes is 9/10 of the law). 


-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[William Walker via CnC-List]

I know we are probably all done with this subject, but Joe's post caused me to 
pull out my policy.  I believe that if you have a policy that is an "inland 
marine" or "marine" standard form policy it will include salvage in addition to 
property damage and liability, but everyone should check.  Coverage for fuel 
spillage is also in these policy forms.
I sail Great Lakes..Fremont Insurance Company, a Michigan company.
Premium $386
44000 agreed hull value including rig
50 liability
5 salvage
8 fuel spill/recovery
5000 med pay
25000 uninsured boater insurance 
etc..
Solid company from my research
Bill Walker 
1981 CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi.



Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:
Let me expand on that:
My BOATUS coverage has salvage coverage for the full hull value. I could be 
covered for a total loss to hull value AND a salvage claim to full hull value. 
Absent that, the salvor would get paid and I would not.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 6:52 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

Does that include separate salvage coverage?
Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 10:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

Wow. Does that include racing?

-Original Message-
From: Leslie Paal via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Leslie Paal
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured with Allstate without any 
questions. I did not have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium was 
$180 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras, spill, 3rd party, 
etc.)

Leslie
Phoenix C 1983


On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM

My Allstate agent said no way
would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
I had
one claim with BOATUS and I could not be happier with the service. Basically 
"get it fixed, have the yard fax us the bill". We hit an underwater something, 
not sure what, and it bent the prop shaft.



Joe Della
Barba
Coquina


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Howard and Skippy 
Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues

Insurance experience
My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate for the last 25 years and I have 
experience with 3 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut with my son at 
the helm, doing about 8 kts with the big chute up, we hit an unseen, 
underground spire submerged 6' below the surface. 20k later Allstate covered 
all but the 500 deductible and there was no increase in rate which has held at 
about 5-600 with an insured value of 60k + 6k for "accessories" for the 
duration of
coverage. About 10-15 years ago, the
boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack stands when the cover caught one 
of the stands causing hull and rigging damage. some 20+k later, Allstate 
handled the claim speedily and without premium increase.
The boat was
totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate

gave me the boat along with the check. I used the $ to rebuild the boat and she 
is as good as or better now than new. There has been no real

increase in premium. I can only praise
Allstate in that they are 1/2 the
cost of
Boat US, have been easy to work with and have stuck with me

through 3 major incidents.
Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again

___

Thanks everyone for supporting
this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. 
If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting
this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. 
If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting 

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Jack Brennan via CnC-List]

Having lost a sailboat to a hurricane, I can't stress enough how important 
it is to have salvage coverage.


My C 25 washed up in a Florida crocodile protected area on Key Biscayne. 
Federal park rangers were irritated and wanted it gone NOW. Salvage 
companies were starting their quotes at 10K, and there was no other way to 
clean up the wreckage.


Imagine my relief when the problem went away with a single phone call to 
Progressive insurance. They told me to have the rangers call them. And they 
cut me a check within a couple of weeks.



Jack Brennan
Former C 25
Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
Tierra Verde, Fl.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Ditto on Cetol.  Use Cetol Marine.  Each spring, light sand then one thin coat 
and good to go for the season – looks great.  We do cover for the winter

 

BTW, congratulation on buying TAZ.  Know the boat and her prior owners well and 
they loved her.  Welcome to the list.  Where are you located?

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 2:19 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

 

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled them 
every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.

 

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

 

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  
wrote:

My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
recommendations.

 

Brien Sadler

S/V TAZ

C 35-3 


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Let me expand on that:
My BOATUS coverage has salvage coverage for the full hull value. I could be 
covered for a total loss to hull value AND a salvage claim to full hull value. 
Absent that, the salvor would get paid and I would not.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 6:52 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

Does that include separate salvage coverage?
Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 10:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

Wow.  Does that include racing?

-Original Message-
From: Leslie Paal via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Leslie Paal
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured with Allstate without any 
questions.  I did not have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium was 
$180 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras, spill, 3rd party, 
etc.)

Leslie
Phoenix C 1983


On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM

My Allstate agent said no way
would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
I had
one claim with BOATUS and I could not be happier with the service. Basically 
"get it fixed, have the yard fax us the bill". We hit an underwater something, 
not sure what, and it bent the prop shaft.



Joe Della
Barba
Coquina


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Howard and Skippy 
Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues

Insurance experience
My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate for the last 25 years and I have 
experience with 3 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut with my son at 
the helm, doing about 8 kts with the big chute up, we hit an unseen, 
underground spire submerged 6' below the surface. 20k later Allstate covered 
all but the 500 deductible and there was no increase in rate which has held at 
about 5-600 with an insured value of 60k + 6k for "accessories" for the 
duration of
coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the
boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack stands when the cover caught one 
of the stands causing hull and rigging damage. some 20+k later, Allstate 
handled the claim speedily and without premium increase.
The boat was
totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate

gave me the boat along with the check. I used the $ to rebuild the boat and she 
is as good as or better now than new. There has been no real

increase in premium. I can only praise
Allstate in that they are 1/2 the
cost of
Boat US, have been easy to work with and have stuck with me

through  3 major incidents.
Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again

___

Thanks everyone for supporting
this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  
If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting
this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  
If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Does that include separate salvage coverage?
Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 10:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

Wow.  Does that include racing?

-Original Message-
From: Leslie Paal via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Leslie Paal
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured with Allstate without any 
questions.  I did not have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium was 
$180 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras, spill, 3rd party, 
etc.)

Leslie
Phoenix C 1983


On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM

My Allstate agent said no way
would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
I had
one claim with BOATUS and I could not be happier with the service. Basically 
"get it fixed, have the yard fax us the bill". We hit an underwater something, 
not sure what, and it bent the prop shaft.



Joe Della
Barba
Coquina


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Howard and Skippy 
Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues

Insurance experience
My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate for the last 25 years and I have 
experience with 3 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut with my son at 
the helm, doing about 8 kts with the big chute up, we hit an unseen, 
underground spire submerged 6' below the surface. 20k later Allstate covered 
all but the 500 deductible and there was no increase in rate which has held at 
about 5-600 with an insured value of 60k + 6k for "accessories" for the 
duration of
coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the
boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack stands when the cover caught one 
of the stands causing hull and rigging damage. some 20+k later, Allstate 
handled the claim speedily and without premium increase.
The boat was
totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate

gave me the boat along with the check. I used the $ to rebuild the boat and she 
is as good as or better now than new. There has been no real

increase in premium. I can only praise
Allstate in that they are 1/2 the
cost of
Boat US, have been easy to work with and have stuck with me

through  3 major incidents.
Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again

___

Thanks everyone for supporting
this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  
If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting
this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  
If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray