Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

David your statement of my whole setup is correct.  It is a spliced eye
with no thimble.  The hook fits tight in the eye splice to avoid
inadvertent disengagement when the cunningham is softened or while the sail
is not at full height (reefed or down completely).  When I reef I typically
don't use the cunningham.  I have "dogbones" in my mainsail to facilitate
hooking the horn.  If I really wanted to it would be easy to unhook the
cunningham and attach it to the opposite (unhooked) side of the dogbone.

I find that light air sailing which allows for a full main is where the
cunningham really shines.  The sail shape is much more critical and
capitalizing on every adjustment is much more evident.  Upwind harden up on
the luff with the cunningham, downwind soften the luff.

In heavy air and a reefed main the options change.  When setting the reef
make sure the halyard is tightened properly.  Upwind look for softness in
the luff and tighten with halyard as needed.  Downwind, leave the sail set
in preps for your next upwind run or shake the reef.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 24, 2017 1:37 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Hi Josh- I have a similar rig, but the reefing hook is attached directly to
the luff cringle.  I considered adding another 2:1 but I want to clarify
how your pennant is rigged.  It looks like it is attached to the tack pin,
then up to the cringle and then down to a spliced loop for the reefing
hook?  Spliced loop or a metal thimble?   The reason I did not do that was
I was not sure how I would deal with reefing. If I reef the main, I just
put the hook in the next cringle.  What do you do?  Dave

On May 19, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Check out these pictures.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0

I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls
on the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up
under the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on
the other side of main after passing through the reef cringle.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Josh- I have a similar rig, but the reefing hook is attached directly to the 
luff cringle.  I considered adding another 2:1 but I want to clarify how your 
pennant is rigged.  It looks like it is attached to the tack pin, then up to 
the cringle and then down to a spliced loop for the reefing hook?  Spliced loop 
or a metal thimble?   The reason I did not do that was I was not sure how I 
would deal with reefing. If I reef the main, I just put the hook in the next 
cringle.  What do you do?  Dave

> On May 19, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Check out these pictures.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0 
> 
> 
> I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls on 
> the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up 
> under the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on 
> the other side of main after passing through the reef cringle.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[bwhitmore--- via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh!  Definitely added those to my upgrade list.
Kindest Regards, 
Bruce C 37 / 40 + 


Sent from Samsung tablet.

 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Date: 5/19/2017  5:58 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham? 

Check out these pictures.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0
I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls on 
the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up under 
the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on the other 
side of main after passing through the reef cringle.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 


On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:
Hi Josh,
While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of your 
Cunningham setup.
Would you have one available to share?
I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.
Thanks as always for your help, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


   From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
   
Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable addition.
For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting Cunningham.  
My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls down on a 
pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting in a compounded 
10 to 1 purchase system.
With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail bare 
handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham and have 
a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a winch and 
the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft forward I can 
harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to further flatten the 
sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby stay.  As I round the 
mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham to move the draft back.  
Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall and easy the babystay as long 
as there is no pumping or rough chop.
Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a 
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit. 
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD

On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?

I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?



Thanks , Dave

33-2



Sent from my iPhone

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/ 
stumurray



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___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!



___



This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Great discussion - helped me resolve a few entangled rigging mods.  Thanks!

Dave



From: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 17:58:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
Check out these pictures.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0

I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls
on the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up
under the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on
the other side of main after passing through the reef cringle.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi Josh,

While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of
your Cunningham setup.

Would you have one available to share?

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the
cockpit via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so
if you have a photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly
appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Check out these pictures.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0

I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls
on the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up
under the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on
the other side of main after passing through the reef cringle.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi Josh,

While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of
your Cunningham setup.

Would you have one available to share?

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the
cockpit via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so
if you have a photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly
appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


--
*From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*To:* C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM

*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable
addition.

For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting
Cunningham.  My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls
down on a pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting
in a compounded 10 to 1 purchase system.

With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail
bare handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham
and have a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a
winch and the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft
forward I can harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to
further flatten the sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby
stay.  As I round the mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham
to move the draft back.  Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall
and easy the babystay as long as there is no pumping or rough chop.

Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
__ _

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/
stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray>

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

The 33-2 seems  pretty bendy to me, (though I lack reference points) it is 
certainly smaller in section than many similar sized boats. 

Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2017, at 1:33 PM, <firewa...@reinardy.us> <firewa...@reinardy.us> 
> wrote:
> 
> Forgive my ignorance on this, but do your boats have a bendy mast?  My 30-2 
> has a baby stay with a 4:1 purchase, but I can't get much movement out of the 
> rig with it at all.  We use the Cunningham quite a bit, but the baby stay is 
> collecting dust.
> 
> Jim Reinardy 
> C 30-2 "Firewater"
> Milwaukee, WI
> ---- Original Message 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
> From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Date: Fri, May 19, 2017 5:21 am
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
> 
> Josh
>  
> You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side 
> effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is 
> usually only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad 
> thing.
>  
> On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately are 
> not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much less 
> effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was fractional 
> (more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very easily shaped 
> with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after years of 
> trimming main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem awkward and 
> clunky for quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it effectively 
> (IMO)
>  
> Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in 
> trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind it 
> is usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light wind
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM
> To: C List
> Cc: Josh Muckley
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>  
> Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech 
> tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In 
> fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in 
> backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.
>  
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically 
> equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the 
> backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.  
> Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose and 
> the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are still 
> available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog situation.
>  
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>  
>  
>  
> On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> And bending mast would also open leech
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Josh Muckley
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>  
> Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.
> If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is 
> also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.
> Josh
>  
> On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
> To: C Stus List
> Cc: Dave S
> Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
> 
> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
> Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
> 
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

That's where the pumping in the mast which we've been talking about comes
in.  Some of the discussion has been theory and some of it has been
practice.  In theory a bendy mast can pull the luff forward.  In practice
our boats experience a stabilized mast and less pumping.

I have check stays which further bend the mast and in theory further
flatten the main but in practice simply reduce pumping more.

In theory even just a little belly in the mast flattens the main...some.
If the mast is pumping then it is by default bending.

I would say that if you find yourself in heavy weather with good chop,
release the baby stay, step forward to the mast and sight it from the
side.  You may need the side stays as a reference point.  You'll probably
notice the mast bending fore and aft at the middle by about and inch or
two.  The action of the boat and helm will be more aggravated.

Now pull the babystay taught and sight the mast again.  You should notice a
reduction in the pumping and the action should calm down.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On May 19, 2017 1:35 PM, "Jim Reinardy via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Forgive my ignorance on this, but do your boats have a bendy mast?  My
> 30-2 has a baby stay with a 4:1 purchase, but I can't get much movement out
> of the rig with it at all.  We use the Cunningham quite a bit, but the baby
> stay is collecting dust.
>
> Jim Reinardy
> C 30-2 "Firewater"
> Milwaukee, WI
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
> From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Date: Fri, May 19, 2017 5:21 am
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
>
> Josh
>
> You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side
> effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is
> usually only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad
> thing.
>
> On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately
> are not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much
> less effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was
> fractional (more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very
> easily shaped with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after
> years of trimming main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem
> awkward and clunky for quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it
> effectively (IMO)
>
> Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in
> trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind
> it is usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light
> wind
>
> Mike
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech
> tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In
> fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in
> backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically
> equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the
> backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.
> Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose
> and the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are
> still available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog
> situation.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
> And bending mast would also open leech
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.
> If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff
> is also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.
> Josh
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in m

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Jim Reinardy via CnC-List]

Forgive my ignorance on this, but do your boats have a bendy mast?  My 30-2 has a baby stay with a 4:1 purchase, but I can't get much movement out of the rig with it at all.  We use the Cunningham quite a bit, but the baby stay is collecting dust.Jim Reinardy C 30-2 "Firewater"Milwaukee, WI


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Date: Fri, May 19, 2017 5:21 am
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>

Josh   You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is usually only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad thing.   On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately are not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much less effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was fractional (more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very easily shaped with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after years of trimming main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem awkward and clunky for quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it effectively (IMO)   Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind it is usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light wind   Mike   From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM To: C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?     Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.       Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.  Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose and the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are still available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog situation.      Josh Muckley   S/V Sea Hawk   1989 C 37+   Solomons, MD              On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:   And bending mast would also open leech   From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?    Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension. If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.  Josh      On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:   Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?  -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM To: C Stus List Cc: Dave S Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?  Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant? I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?  Thanks , Dave 33-2  Sent from my iPhone ___  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!  ___  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!   ___  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!      ___

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This list 

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Love mine. C 27-III

Sent from my iPhone

On May 19, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

+ 1  on Garhauer, I like mine.
Gary
30-1

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Marek Dziedzic <dziedzi...@hotmail.com<mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Bruce,

Garhauer makes very nice adjustable car system. Look up “Garhauer adjustable 
genoa car system”. A few pictures here (not my boat ((:-(): 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hq9xfaayl2n3b9v/AAAbFxc4HSJ8GMhukyZq1AR4a?dl=0 .

Marek

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092<tel:(847)%20404-5092> (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net<mailto:bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

+ 1  on Garhauer, I like mine.

Gary

30-1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic <dziedzi...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

 

Bruce,

 

Garhauer makes very nice adjustable car system. Look up “Garhauer adjustable 
genoa car system”. A few pictures here (not my boat ((:-(): 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hq9xfaayl2n3b9v/AAAbFxc4HSJ8GMhukyZq1AR4a?dl=0 .

 

Marek

 

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

Thanks as always for your help,

 

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 <tel:(847)%20404-5092>  (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net <mailto:bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net> 


 

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Bruce,

Garhauer makes very nice adjustable car system. Look up “Garhauer adjustable 
genoa car system”. A few pictures here (not my boat ((:-(): 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hq9xfaayl2n3b9v/AAAbFxc4HSJ8GMhukyZq1AR4a?dl=0 .

Marek

I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks as always for your help,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bruce,

It seems that you are in luck on both interests.  My jib track runs from
the side stays to about 3 feet forward of the primary winch.  It is fully
adjustable with a 4 to 1 purchase which is cam cleated between the end of
the winch and the primary winch.  The 4 to 1 is sufficient to trim the lead
angle even with the sheet heavily loaded.  I don't have pictures of the
cunningham or the jib track right now but will get some next time I'm a the
boat.  Today or tomorrow.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of
> your Cunningham setup.
>
> Would you have one available to share?
>
> I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the
> cockpit via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so
> if you have a photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly
> appreciated as well.
>
> Thanks as always for your help,
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *To:* C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable
> addition.
>
> For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting
> Cunningham.  My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls
> down on a pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting
> in a compounded 10 to 1 purchase system.
>
> With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail
> bare handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham
> and have a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a
> winch and the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft
> forward I can harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to
> further flatten the sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby
> stay.  As I round the mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham
> to move the draft back.  Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall
> and easy the babystay as long as there is no pumping or rough chop.
>
> Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires
> a winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
> On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
> the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
>
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> __ _
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/
> stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray>
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of your 
Cunningham setup.
Would you have one available to share?
I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.
Thanks as always for your help, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
   
Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable addition.
For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting Cunningham.  
My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls down on a 
pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting in a compounded 
10 to 1 purchase system.
With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail bare 
handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham and have 
a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a winch and 
the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft forward I can 
harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to further flatten the 
sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby stay.  As I round the 
mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham to move the draft back.  
Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall and easy the babystay as long 
as there is no pumping or rough chop.
Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a 
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit. 
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD

On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
__ _

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/ 
stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


   ___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Josh

You are correct.  Baby stay is designed to help with mast pumping.  A side 
effect may be that bending mast opens leech somewhat. Since babystay is usually 
only used in windy conditions opening the leech is not such a bad thing.

On fractionally rigged boats which most C and our Frers unfortunately are 
not backstay is ALL ABOUT main sail and really opens leech.  Has much less 
effect on forestay tension than on masthead boat. The C 115 was fractional 
(more or less) and had a really bendy mast.  The main was very easily shaped 
with all the controls.  Going to masthead rig on Frers after years of trimming 
main on Niagara 26, J27 and C 115 made the main seem awkward and clunky for 
quite some time.  It is a lot more work to trim it effectively (IMO)

Back to our original point.  Opening or closing leech is a major tool in 
trimming main sail.  A tight sheet and vang does close the leech but wind it is 
usually bending mast that is a tool used to open leech vs in light wind

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:39 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech 
tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In 
fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in 
backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically 
equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the 
backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.  Likewise, 
bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose and the 
components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are still 
available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog situation.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
And bending mast would also open leech

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On 
Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?


Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.

If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is 
also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.

Josh

On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On 
Behalf Of Dave S via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
To: C Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable
addition.

For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting
Cunningham.  My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls
down on a pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting
in a compounded 10 to 1 purchase system.

With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail
bare handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham
and have a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a
winch and the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft
forward I can harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to
further flatten the sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby
stay.  As I round the mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham
to move the draft back.  Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall
and easy the babystay as long as there is no pumping or rough chop.

Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
> the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
>
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Mike I believe you are correct but isn't that simply a side effect?  Leech
tension and sail twist should be controlled by the mail sheet and vang.  In
fact I think the opening of the leech is experienced more with changes in
backstay tension as a result of changing the position of the masthead.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your statement is metaphorically
equivalent to saying, "The backstay controls main sheet tension."  True the
backstay can affect main sheet tension, but that's not its purpose.
Likewise, bending the mast can open the leech but that's not its purpose
and the components designed to control the leech (vang and mainsheet) are
still available to "close" it.  Kind of a does the tail wag the dog
situation.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On May 18, 2017 9:00 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

And bending mast would also open leech



*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
*Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Josh Muckley
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?



Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.

If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff
is also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.

Josh



On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
To: C Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
___

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wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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___

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wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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___

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

They both "depower" the main‎ but it's not the same thing going on:
As the wind builds it pushes the max draft in the ‎main aft. This increases 
drag until it slows the boat and increases heel. The Cunningham brings the max. 
draft forward again to make the aerofoil more effective. It increases lift and 
reduces drag. Making more of the lift available in the forward vector.
‎It's more effective than tensioning the main halliard as the main halliard 
also tensions the leech, cupping it and reducing speed by increasing drag 
again. The Cunningham, mostly tensions just the luff.
The baby stay will just flatten the main to reduce lift by increasing the cord 
lenth of the aerofoil (as far as it can bend our thick masts) 
As said before, it also stops the mast pumping, which the Cunningham obviously 
doesn't.
You need both!‎ 

sam :-)
C 26 Liquorice 
Ghost Lake Alberta 

  Original Message  
From: Dave S via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 7:43 PM
To: C Stus List
Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

There is a difference between the amount of max draft and the location of
max draft.

Mast bend affects the amount of maximum draft.  Luff tension or cunningham
affects the location of maximum draft.

For a headsail, headstay sag affects the amount of maximum draft.  Halyard
tension affects the location of maximum draft.

Dennis C.
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

And bending mast would also open leech

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?


Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.

If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff is 
also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.

Josh

On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On 
Behalf Of Dave S via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
To: C Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Cunningham does flatten the sail but simply due to luff tension.

If a baby stay is able to pull the belly of the mast forward then the luff
is also pulled forward and the resulting shape of the sail is flatter.

Josh

On Thu, May 18, 2017, 8:18 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
> To: C Stus List
> Cc: Dave S
> Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
>
> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
> the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
>
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Doesn't the cunngham assist the halyard in moving draft forward?

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:43 PM
To: C Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Dave,

The controls are not really redundant.  The cunningham does a much better
job of flattening the main.  The cunningham tightens the luff in the bottom
third of the sail very effectively.

The babystay can shape the main a little, but it mainly used to prevent the
mast from pumping.  The thick mast section on most C is really difficult
to bend.  Preventing the mast from pumping (or inverting) is much more
important.  That said, we only use ours in heavy air or when the waves are
large.  The #3 tacks around it pretty easy, the #1... not so much.

Jake

Jake Brodersen
C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
Hampton VA





-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 21:43
To: C Stus List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dave S <syerd...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish
to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

They both help to flatten the main in heavy wind but they do it
differently.  Kinda like saying, "Since I have a belt I don't need
suspenders."

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Wed, May 17, 2017, 9:43 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make
> the Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
> I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?
>
> Thanks , Dave
> 33-2
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?
I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?

Thanks , Dave
33-2

Sent from my iPhone
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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