Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
I think the whole group are poisonous. They all cause nausea, vomiting, blindness and then death. With ethanol, the blindness and death are pretty close together and death is the ultimate blindness. We just try to manage the nausea to achieve the carefree feeling. Here's to the grand experiment! Ron Wild Cheri CC 30 STL On Tue, 8/12/14, Steve Thomas via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove To: JOHN D IRVIN john.ir...@rogers.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2014, 11:16 AM Different chemical. Short chemistry lesson: Methyl hydrate is an old name for methanol, which is a chemical compound (molecule) consisting of one carbon, one oxygen, and four hydrogen atoms. Ethanol, the alcohol we love to drink, has two carbon, one oxygen, and 6 hydrogen atoms in each molecule. In general, a hydrocarbon is a compound made up of just carbon and hydrogen atoms. If you substitute an oxygen atom which is also linked to a hydrogen atom for one of the hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon molecule, you then have an alcohol. The -OH is know as a hydroxyl group, and when attached to a hydrocarbon to form an alcohol, is responsible for most of the resultant compound's chemical activity. Most but not all. That is why the various alcohols are similar but different, and particularly different in how toxic they are to humans. Dwight might have something to add, but that is it in a nutshell. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
I recall having all these symptoms except death one night at the tender age of 16 after an unfortunate altercation with a large amount of Ripple. Just nearly dead. Wished I was dead. Bill Coleman CC 39 -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 1:36 PM To: Steve Thomas; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I think the whole group are poisonous. They all cause nausea, vomiting, blindness and then death. With ethanol, the blindness and death are pretty close together and death is the ultimate blindness. We just try to manage the nausea to achieve the carefree feeling. Here's to the grand experiment! Ron Wild Cheri CC 30 STL ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
wished I was dead Been there in 1972. It was Seagrams VO in my case. I attribute that for my avoidance (to date) of alcoholism. And maybe sailing a little cause that is hard to do when you're just a teeny unbalanced.. Skip -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:51 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I recall having all these symptoms except death one night at the tender age of 16 after an unfortunate altercation with a large amount of Ripple. Just nearly dead. Wished I was dead. Bill Coleman CC 39 -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 1:36 PM To: Steve Thomas; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I think the whole group are poisonous. They all cause nausea, vomiting, blindness and then death. With ethanol, the blindness and death are pretty close together and death is the ultimate blindness. We just try to manage the nausea to achieve the carefree feeling. Here's to the grand experiment! Ron Wild Cheri CC 30 STL ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa, The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) (http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US, as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek From: Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM To: Rick Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto. I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
The local marina here sells boat stove alcohol in the same price range. I don't recall the brand, but will check if anyone is interested. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON - Original Message - From: Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List To: Rick Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto. I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to denature ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: August 12, 2014 9:12 AM To: Stevan Plavsa; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa, The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) (http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US, as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek From: Stevan Plavsa mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM To: Rick mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto. I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _ ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/8000 - Release Date: 08/07/14 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
My experience is that 95.6% is the most what you can obtain commercially (or from any kind of distillation). You can get further only with molecular sieves or by removing the remaining water using benzene or some other substances. The best (for drinking, if you are so inclined) is this one: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakemitsui/item/vod-0007/ (btw. the web page says incorrectly 96 degrees, it is 96%). In Canada, you can get it in Quebec as Global Alcool, but it is “only” 94%. However, I would not use it in a stove, as it would not be overly cost effective. It has great applications for mixing drinks, though. Marek From: dwight Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: 'Marek Dziedzic' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: RE: Stus-List Alcohol stove Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to “denature” ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: August 12, 2014 9:12 AM To: Stevan Plavsa; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa, The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) (http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US, as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek From: Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM To: Rick Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto. I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/8000 - Release Date: 08/07/14 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
How is methyl hydrate different? On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:04:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My experience is that 95.6% is the most what you can obtain commercially (or from any kind of distillation). You can get further only with molecular sieves or by removing the remaining water using benzene or some other substances. The best (for drinking, if you are so inclined) is this one: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakemitsui/item/vod-0007/ (btw. the web page says incorrectly 96 degrees, it is 96%). In Canada, you can get it in Quebec as Global Alcool, but it is “only” 94%. However, I would not use it in a stove, as it would not be overly cost effective. It has great applications for mixing drinks, though. Marek From: dwight Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: 'Marek Dziedzic' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: RE: Stus-List Alcohol stove Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to “denature” ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: August 12, 2014 9:12 AM To: Stevan Plavsa ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa , The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) (http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US , as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek From:Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List Sent:Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM To:Rick Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject:Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto . I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean . Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/8000 - Release Date: 08/07/14 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Different chemical. Short chemistry lesson: Methyl hydrate is an old name for methanol, which is a chemical compound (molecule) consisting of one carbon, one oxygen, and four hydrogen atoms. Ethanol, the alcohol we love to drink, has two carbon, one oxygen, and 6 hydrogen atoms in each molecule. In general, a hydrocarbon is a compound made up of just carbon and hydrogen atoms. If you substitute an oxygen atom which is also linked to a hydrogen atom for one of the hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon molecule, you then have an alcohol. The -OH is know as a hydroxyl group, and when attached to a hydrocarbon to form an alcohol, is responsible for most of the resultant compound's chemical activity. Most but not all. That is why the various alcohols are similar but different, and particularly different in how toxic they are to humans. Dwight might have something to add, but that is it in a nutshell. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: JOHN D IRVIN via CnC-List To: Marek Dziedzic ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove How is methyl hydrate different? On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:04:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My experience is that 95.6% is the most what you can obtain commercially (or from any kind of distillation). You can get further only with molecular sieves or by removing the remaining water using benzene or some other substances. The best (for drinking, if you are so inclined) is this one: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakemitsui/item/vod-0007/ (btw. the web page says incorrectly 96 degrees, it is 96%). In Canada, you can get it in Quebec as Global Alcool, but it is “only” 94%. However, I would not use it in a stove, as it would not be overly cost effective. It has great applications for mixing drinks, though. Marek From: dwight Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: 'Marek Dziedzic' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: RE: Stus-List Alcohol stove Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to “denature” ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: August 12, 2014 9:12 AM To: Stevan Plavsa ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa , The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) (http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US , as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek From: Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM To: Rick Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto . I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean . Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
In a pinch my alcohol stove runs very well on Captain Morgan Private Stock *Rum. You just ant use a mixer. You will need to purge it afterwords for the sugar content is high, ARRGGG!!! * On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Different chemical. Short chemistry lesson: Methyl hydrate is an old name for methanol, which is a chemical compound (molecule) consisting of one carbon, one oxygen, and four hydrogen atoms. Ethanol, the alcohol we love to drink, has two carbon, one oxygen, and 6 hydrogen atoms in each molecule. In general, a hydrocarbon is a compound made up of just carbon and hydrogen atoms. If you substitute an oxygen atom which is also linked to a hydrogen atom for one of the hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon molecule, you then have an alcohol. The -OH is know as a hydroxyl group, and when attached to a hydrocarbon to form an alcohol, is responsible for most of the resultant compound's chemical activity. Most but not all. That is why the various alcohols are similar but different, and particularly different in how toxic they are to humans. Dwight might have something to add, but that is it in a nutshell. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - *From:* JOHN D IRVIN via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *To:* Marek Dziedzic dziedzi...@hotmail.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove How is methyl hydrate different? On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:04:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My experience is that 95.6% is the most what you can obtain commercially (or from any kind of distillation). You can get further only with molecular sieves or by removing the remaining water using benzene or some other substances. The best (for drinking, if you are so inclined) is this one: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakemitsui/item/vod-0007/ (btw. the web page says incorrectly 96 degrees, it is 96%). In Canada, you can get it in Quebec as Global Alcool, but it is only 94%. However, I would not use it in a stove, as it would not be overly cost effective. It has great applications for mixing drinks, though. Marek *From:* dwight dwight...@gmail.com *Sent:* Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:06 AM *To:* 'Marek Dziedzic' dziedzi...@hotmail.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* RE: Stus-List Alcohol stove Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to denature ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List *Sent:* August 12, 2014 9:12 AM *To:* Stevan Plavsa ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa , The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) ( http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US , as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek *From:* Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM *To:* Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto . I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean . Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Alcohols are one of the larger families of chemicals. The two simplest alcohols are methanol, C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarbonH http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen3O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OxygenH http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen and ethanol, C 2H 5OH. Methanol is also known as methyl alcohol, methyl hydrate, hydroxymethane, methyl hydroxide, methylic alcohol, methylol, wood alcohol, wood naptha or wood spirits. Ethanol is also known as ethyl alcohol. Ethanol is the alcohol in liquor. Methanol is the most common denaturing agent for ethanol. The only other alcohol of any significant use in the marine industry is polyvinyl alcohol or PVA which is used as a mold release agent in fiberglass molding. Yeah, I know, more than any of you wanted to know. Had to find something to justify that expensive education years ago. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:34 AM, JOHN D IRVIN via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: How is methyl hydrate different? ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Curtis, My Atomic 4 runs pretty good on Captain Morgan's too, but at that point the hell with the substitute use and just use the Captain Morgan's as the big guy intended and worry about the stove later!! James 1976 CC 38 Delaney Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: Curtis via CnC-List To: Steve Thomas ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove In a pinch my alcohol stove runs very well on Captain Morgan Private Stock Rum. You just ant use a mixer. You will need to purge it afterwords for the sugar content is high, ARRGGG!!! On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Different chemical. Short chemistry lesson: Methyl hydrate is an old name for methanol, which is a chemical compound (molecule) consisting of one carbon, one oxygen, and four hydrogen atoms. Ethanol, the alcohol we love to drink, has two carbon, one oxygen, and 6 hydrogen atoms in each molecule. In general, a hydrocarbon is a compound made up of just carbon and hydrogen atoms. If you substitute an oxygen atom which is also linked to a hydrogen atom for one of the hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon molecule, you then have an alcohol. The -OH is know as a hydroxyl group, and when attached to a hydrocarbon to form an alcohol, is responsible for most of the resultant compound's chemical activity. Most but not all. That is why the various alcohols are similar but different, and particularly different in how toxic they are to humans. Dwight might have something to add, but that is it in a nutshell. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: JOHN D IRVIN via CnC-List To: Marek Dziedzic ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove How is methyl hydrate different? On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:04:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My experience is that 95.6% is the most what you can obtain commercially (or from any kind of distillation). You can get further only with molecular sieves or by removing the remaining water using benzene or some other substances. The best (for drinking, if you are so inclined) is this one: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakemitsui/item/vod-0007/ (btw. the web page says incorrectly 96 degrees, it is 96%). In Canada, you can get it in Quebec as Global Alcool, but it is only 94%. However, I would not use it in a stove, as it would not be overly cost effective. It has great applications for mixing drinks, though. Marek From: dwight Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: 'Marek Dziedzic' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: RE: Stus-List Alcohol stove Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to denature ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: August 12, 2014 9:12 AM To: Stevan Plavsa ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Steve, try other marine stores. In Ottawa , The Chandlery, sells Capt. Phab 4l for $21.50 (or $20 US) (http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=3331). I think they would ship it, unless there is some funny restriction. They ship to the US , as well. Marine Outfitters out of Kingston carry it, too. Btw. this is what I use in my stove and it burns extremely clean. Marek From: Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 PM To: Rick Brass ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto . I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
OK - stop the sketch, it's getting silly! sam :-) From: jtsails via CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:56 PMTo: Curtis; cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: jtsailsSubject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Curtis, My Atomic 4 runs pretty good on Captain Morgan's too, but at that point the hell with the substitute use and just use the Captain Morgan's as the big guy intended and worry about the stove later!! James 1976 CC 38 Delaney Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: Curtis via CnC-List To: Steve Thomas ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove In a pinch my alcohol stove runs very well onCaptain MorganPrivate StockRum. You just ant use a mixer. You will need to purge it afterwords for the sugarcontent is high, ARRGGG!!! On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Different chemical. Short chemistry lesson: Methyl hydrate is an oldname for methanol, which is a chemical compound (molecule) consisting of one carbon, one oxygen, and four hydrogen atoms. Ethanol, the alcoholwe love to drink,hastwo carbon, one oxygen, and 6 hydrogen atoms in each molecule.In general,a hydrocarbonis a compound made up of just carbon and hydrogen atoms. If yousubstitute an oxygen atom which is also linked to a hydrogen atomfor one of the hydrogen atoms ina hydrocarbon molecule, you then have an alcohol. The-OHis know asahydroxyl group, and when attached to a hydrocarbon to form an alcohol, is responsible for most of the resultant compound's chemical activity. Most but not all. That is why the various alcohols are similar but different, and particularly different in how toxic they are to humans. Dwight might have something to add, but that is it in a nutshell. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: JOHN D IRVIN via CnC-List To: Marek Dziedzic ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove How is methyl hydrate different? On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:04:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My experience is that 95.6% is the most what you can obtain commercially (or from any kind of distillation). You can get further only with molecular sieves or by removing the remaining water using benzene or some other substances. The best (for drinking, if you are so inclined) is this one: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakemitsui/item/vod-0007/ (btw. the web page says incorrectly 96 degrees, it is 96%). In Canada, you can get it in Quebec as Global Alcool, but it is only 94%. However, I would not use it in a stove, as it would not be overly cost effective. It has great applications for mixing drinks, though. Marek From: dwight Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:06 AM To: 'Marek Dziedzic' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: RE: Stus-List Alcohol stove Here is an article on ethanol versus methanol as a fuel. This article concludes that ethanol is the more efficient fuel. http://vincent02pd2011.wikispaces.com/Methanol+Vs+Ethanol+Fuel+Lab and this article says that ethanol produces a higher flame temperature. http://classroom.synonym.com/burns-hotter-ethanol-methanol-7848.html Ethanol is hygroscopic and will absorb up to 5% moisture from the atmosphere. It is difficult to obtain and store 100% pure ethanol. Many chemicals can be used to denature ethanol, like methanol, acetone, benzene, isobutyl ketone and most of these chemicals will make the denatured ethanol poisonous , bad tasting, bad smelling or nauseating in order to discourage human consumption Dwight Veinot CC 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
It works fine. skip wrote: plain old denatured alcohol ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
smell? From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Alcohol stove This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Do not use stove cooking fuel if you mean Coleman fuel. That is gasoline. I know someone who is very lucky. Thought Coleman fuel same as alcohol. Oops. Bill Walker. Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Alcohol stove Date: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 11:28 AM smell? From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Alcohol stove This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Thanks. I do understand the difference between “white gas” and alcohol. Found out the hard way when I was a kid. Put Coleman stove fuel in a kerosene lantern. My dad caught it in time. Just one of those “I can’t believe I didn’t kill myself moments. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:14 PM To: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove Do not use stove cooking fuel if you mean Coleman fuel. That is gasoline. I know someone who is very lucky. Thought Coleman fuel same as alcohol. Oops. Bill Walker. Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Alcohol stove Date: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 11:28 AM smell? From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 10:36 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Alcohol stove This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove fuels. Best?
Lots of discussions, disagreements, personal opinions on this subject. One place where camping, backpacking and marine recreation overlap. Denatured alcohol will work, but is it REALLY the best bargain? How quickly will it heat your food? What you're looking for is $$/BTU or heating efficiency AND clean burning. You might find this video enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt69fbNhCgs The video compares several alcohol fuels. Granted, the comparison is done in a non-pressurized stove but the comparison methodology seems fairly sound. The results were defined in terms of economy ($$$) for bringing water to a boil. In short, denatured alcohol performed poorly in terms of economic efficiency. The best performing fuel was an automotive gas antifreeze, HEET in the yellow container. HEET is primarily methanol. I suppose you can always go to a truck stop and get air brake antifreeze. Unfortunately, no actual stove fuel like Origo or Tru-Heat was tested. Alcohol stoves are designed to burn ethanol (ethyl alcohol). Unfortunately, you can't find 100% ethanol. Ethanol must be denatured by adding methanol to avoid liquor taxation. Nigel Calder says you need a minimum of 95% ethanol. Further, there doesn't appear to be any standard for denatured alcohol. Make sure any fuel you buy is labeled for use in alcohol stoves. Some denatured alcohols may be as little as 50% alcohol. Pressure alcohol stoves are more fuel sensitive than non-pressurized alcohol stoves because of the orifice. If the fuel contains oils or impurities, the orifice may become plugged. Before you burn any new fuel in a pressurized alcohol stove, burn several ounces in a metal dish and check for residue after the burn completes. Make sure any fuel you buy is labeled for use in alcohol stoves. Read the label. Look at the MSDS. There doesn't appear to be any standard for denatured alcohol. Some denatured alcohols may be as little as 50% alcohol. So, you might actually spend more $$ or incur more maintenance issues by using a cheap denatured alcohol than a fuel formulated specially for alcohol stoves. For the record, Touche' has a pressure alcohol stove. The Admiral and I use it often. I tried big box store denatured alcohol (labeled for stove fuel) and it worked but I personally prefer the Origo stove fuel. Just seems to work better. Might be my imagination or the fumes. :) Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove fuels. Best?
Good point, I was wondering if the topic was about pressured or non-pressured alcool stove.. I use an Origo 2 burners stove ( non pressurized ), always used methyl hydrate ( much like the old gas line anti-freeze, before injected engines ). Good performance and not too expensive ( a gallon cost around 18.00 at hardware stores ). I also pour it if I have water in my gas tank ( Atomic 4 ). I tried denatured alcool once on the Origo but it was not as efficient to boil water ( and for the first coffee of the day minutes couts! ). Sylvain CC27 MkIII From: Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com; CnClist cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove fuels. Best? Lots of discussions, disagreements, personal opinions on this subject. One place where camping, backpacking and marine recreation overlap. Denatured alcohol will work, but is it REALLY the best bargain? How quickly will it heat your food? What you're looking for is $$/BTU or heating efficiency AND clean burning. You might find this video enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt69fbNhCgs The video compares several alcohol fuels. Granted, the comparison is done in a non-pressurized stove but the comparison methodology seems fairly sound. The results were defined in terms of economy ($$$) for bringing water to a boil. In short, denatured alcohol performed poorly in terms of economic efficiency. The best performing fuel was an automotive gas antifreeze, HEET in the yellow container. HEET is primarily methanol. I suppose you can always go to a truck stop and get air brake antifreeze. Unfortunately, no actual stove fuel like Origo or Tru-Heat was tested. Alcohol stoves are designed to burn ethanol (ethyl alcohol). Unfortunately, you can't find 100% ethanol. Ethanol must be denatured by adding methanol to avoid liquor taxation. Nigel Calder says you need a minimum of 95% ethanol. Further, there doesn't appear to be any standard for denatured alcohol. Make sure any fuel you buy is labeled for use in alcohol stoves. Some denatured alcohols may be as little as 50% alcohol. Pressure alcohol stoves are more fuel sensitive than non-pressurized alcohol stoves because of the orifice. If the fuel contains oils or impurities, the orifice may become plugged. Before you burn any new fuel in a pressurized alcohol stove, burn several ounces in a metal dish and check for residue after the burn completes. Make sure any fuel you buy is labeled for use in alcohol stoves. Read the label. Look at the MSDS. There doesn't appear to be any standard for denatured alcohol. Some denatured alcohols may be as little as 50% alcohol. So, you might actually spend more $$ or incur more maintenance issues by using a cheap denatured alcohol than a fuel formulated specially for alcohol stoves. For the record, Touche' has a pressure alcohol stove. The Admiral and I use it often. I tried big box store denatured alcohol (labeled for stove fuel) and it worked but I personally prefer the Origo stove fuel. Just seems to work better. Might be my imagination or the fumes. :) Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove fuels. Best?
I don’t think they add the methanol anymore. Too many people got poisoned. Instead they add some other chemicals (e.g. pyridine) that has a terrible taste and has a boiling temperature almost the same as ethanol (so it is close to impossible to refine it). I think those other chemicals cause the poor performance in alcohol stoves. Captain Phab stove fuel works well (I think it is the same or very similar to Origo’s). Marek From: Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:34 PM To: Burt Stratton ; CnClist Subject: Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove fuels. Best? Lots of discussions, disagreements, personal opinions on this subject. One place where camping, backpacking and marine recreation overlap. Denatured alcohol will work, but is it REALLY the best bargain? How quickly will it heat your food? What you're looking for is $$/BTU or heating efficiency AND clean burning. You might find this video enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt69fbNhCgs The video compares several alcohol fuels. Granted, the comparison is done in a non-pressurized stove but the comparison methodology seems fairly sound. The results were defined in terms of economy ($$$) for bringing water to a boil. In short, denatured alcohol performed poorly in terms of economic efficiency. The best performing fuel was an automotive gas antifreeze, HEET in the yellow container. HEET is primarily methanol. I suppose you can always go to a truck stop and get air brake antifreeze. Unfortunately, no actual stove fuel like Origo or Tru-Heat was tested. Alcohol stoves are designed to burn ethanol (ethyl alcohol). Unfortunately, you can't find 100% ethanol. Ethanol must be denatured by adding methanol to avoid liquor taxation. Nigel Calder says you need a minimum of 95% ethanol. Further, there doesn't appear to be any standard for denatured alcohol. Make sure any fuel you buy is labeled for use in alcohol stoves. Some denatured alcohols may be as little as 50% alcohol. Pressure alcohol stoves are more fuel sensitive than non-pressurized alcohol stoves because of the orifice. If the fuel contains oils or impurities, the orifice may become plugged. Before you burn any new fuel in a pressurized alcohol stove, burn several ounces in a metal dish and check for residue after the burn completes. Make sure any fuel you buy is labeled for use in alcohol stoves. Read the label. Look at the MSDS. There doesn't appear to be any standard for denatured alcohol. Some denatured alcohols may be as little as 50% alcohol. So, you might actually spend more $$ or incur more maintenance issues by using a cheap denatured alcohol than a fuel formulated specially for alcohol stoves. For the record, Touche' has a pressure alcohol stove. The Admiral and I use it often. I tried big box store denatured alcohol (labeled for stove fuel) and it worked but I personally prefer the Origo stove fuel. Just seems to work better. Might be my imagination or the fumes. :) Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Skip, In case of a fire caused by over priming or other alcohol fuel caused fire issues on top of the stove use water (gently poured or misted) to dilute the alcohol. Alcohol loves water and will absorb it quickly gently putting the fire out. Back in 1979 I was sailing on a CC 39 from Hawaii to Seattle. 2 days out of Hanalei Bay one of the crew over primed the stove causing a pool of alcohol over the entire stove (3 burner) surface. The crew, deep into happy hour lit a burner igniting the pool of fuel. Back then I was not aware of water's diluting effect of flaming alcohol. I stood by with a dry chem extinguisher expecting the fire to die down, contained by the design of the stove top pan. What I did not expect was the fire to soften/burn the fuel supply hose off its fitting. Fortunately the boat's owner (on deck) had the presence of mind to shut the valve between the pressurized tank and the stove. When the hose failed it shot burning alcohol across the galley and onto the teak faced plywood bulkhead. At that point I dumped 2 dry chem extinguishers onto the burning plywood. So, after 5 years and two Seattle/LA/Hawaii/Seattle round trips on that 39 with an alcohol stove that was the one time we had a significant safety issue with alcohol fuel. If I had used some water to dilute the alcohol I would not have that sea story to tell. Today I prefer propane as it heats faster, has less small and extra moisture created, and I don't have to prime the burner. We do have the electric shut off solenoid, separate overboard vent storage space, and a healthy regard for the risk of heavier than air propane leaking into a bilge. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Burt Stratton via CnC-List Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:37 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Alcohol stove This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Alcohol stove
I found it hard to source denatured alcohol here in Toronto. I found it at this place finally: http://www.sculpturesupply.com/index.php I paid something less than $25 for a 4 litre jug. Much better deal than the stuff they sell at west marine. Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Denatured alcohol is all I've ever used in the stove on the 38 or the Origo stove on the 25. About once a year I go to Lowes and buy a gallon can. And one of these days I'll finally get around to installing the new propane stove I bought for the 38 a couple of years ago. I'm told it is easier to find propane than denatured alcohol when you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 10:36, Burt Stratton via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: This my first go-around with alcohol stoves. Seems to work very nicely. Cleaned it up filled it and brewed a big pot of coffee in no time. Is there any reason not to use plain old denatured alcohol instead of stove cooking fuel? Skip ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
