Re: Stus-List Halyard knots (was: Masthead sheaves C&C 37+)

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

For those who want to know everything about knots and splices, here's a
series of tests done by Evans Starzinger with help from the rope companies
and other interested people:
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/154025-ropeknotsplice-load-testing/
Fascinating stuff, but there are 1800 posts in the thread so be warned it's
not a quick read.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC



>
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Stus-List Halyard knots

[Jim Giffing via CnC-List]

Brian
In my case I am using 3/8” New England VPC and the knot in attaching to snap 
shackles for spin, and two genoas. And attached to a locking pin shackle for 
the main.
They all lead back to the cabin top to Lewmar D1 clutches.
JimS/V Strong Tower1977 C&C 29 Mk1North East Md

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Re: Stus-List Halyard knots (was: Masthead sheaves C&C 37+)

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

In USAR training (including confined space) we only used the Figure8 knot on 
'life' lines.  Everybody knew how to tie and untie, so there were no surprises.

Leslie
JPL USAR Team (retired)


On Fri, 2/2/18, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Halyard knots (was: Masthead sheaves C&C 37+)
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
 Cc: "Marek Dziedzic" 
 Date: Friday, February 2, 2018, 6:33 AM
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 Can’t speak for the confined space rescuers, but the
 climbers switched from the bowline to the figure eight,
 mainly, because the bowline CAN untie by itself under
 certain situations.
 
  
 Generally, the bowline is frowned upon in the life
 safety situations.
  
 However, when I was learning to climb (a very long time
 ago), I was told that the bowline requires a second knot ( a
 hitch) after it. It was there to prevent it from
 unraveling.
  
 Marek
 
 
  
 
 From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
 
 Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 23:03
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 
 Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C&C
 37+
 
 
  
 
 
 I didn't spend much time comparing resources and
 references so take it for what it's worth but the
 website below did some tests and found the bowline reduced
 strength by ~60% where as the double fish knot broke at
 ~75%.  I'm not sure exactly what a double
  fish knot is compared to any of the other knots. 
 Interestingly I was always taught that climers and confined
 space rescuer use a figue eight (reweave or on a bite)
 instead of a bowline because of its retained strength. 
 It's a interesting read at least.
  
 http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope-hold.html
  
 Josh
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, Feb 1, 2018, 10:49 PM Rick Brass via
 CnC-List 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 I couldn’t help but
 chuckle because I’ve been tying the Halyard Hitch,
 Jeanneau Variant since I was about 12.. Except what I’ve
 always used it for is to tie
  the monofilament leader onto a fly when fly casting. The
 knot (bend actually) that I learned takes two passes through
 the eye of the hook and then is tied like the Jeanneau bend.
 And when I learned it from my Grandfather it was called a
 fisherman’s bend.
  
 And, BTW, one of the
 reasons the bowline is the most basic knot taught in the US
 Power Squadron and CG Auxilliary basic seamanship classes is
 – according to
  the course material – that it retains around 90% of the
 strength of the line you are using and is the highest among
 the common knots and bends.
  
 Rick
 Brass
 Washington,
 NC
  
  
  
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Patrick Davin via CnC-List
 
 Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 6:02 PM
 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 
 Cc: Patrick Davin 
 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C&C
 37+
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 I couldn't help but chuckle
 that Jeanneau owners are claiming to have invented / named
 this knot.  It's just the halyard hitch with a
 different finish. So perhaps it should be called halyard
 hitch, Jeanneau
  variant?
 
 
  
 
 
  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is greatly
 appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --  
 
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your
 contributions.  Each and every one is greatly
 appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 

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Re: Stus-List Halyard knots (was: Masthead sheaves C&C 37+)

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Here's a good article with a wee bowline
mentioned, from the professor himself, Mr. Brion Toss.

http://www.briontoss.com/education/archive/miscsept02.htm

Also, beware of the difference between a
reduction of strength by X5 vs.retention of
strength... no big deal if it's 50% but a value
of 60% is a remarkable difference.

For the halyard, I put in an eye splice new and
when it is time to end-for-end the shackle gets
the ol' fisherman bend ('cause that is what I know it as) with a seized tail.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 06:33 AM 2/2/2018, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:

Content-Language: en-CA
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="_000_CY1PR11MB0968E2B86DA7EBA6CBDCC8E5CEF90CY1PR11MB0968namp_"

Can’t speak for the confined space rescuers,
but the climbers switched from the bowline to
the figure eight, mainly, because the bowline
CAN untie by itself under certain situations.

Generally, the bowline is frowned upon in the life safety situations.

However, when I was learning to climb (a very
long time ago), I was told that the bowline
requires a second knot ( a hitch) after it. It
was there to prevent it from unraveling.

Marek

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 23:03
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C&C 37+

I didn't spend much time comparing resources and
references so take it for what it's worth but
the website below did some tests and found the
bowline reduced strength by ~60% where as the
double fish knot broke at ~75%.  I'm not sure
exactly what a double fish knot is compared to
any of the other knots.  Interestingly I was
always taught that climers and confined space
rescuer use a figue eight (reweave or on a bite)
instead of a bowline because of its retained
strength.  It's a interesting read at least.

http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope-hold.html 



Josh

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018, 10:49 PM Rick Brass via
CnC-List  wrote:

I couldn’t help but chuckle because I’ve
been tying the Halyard Hitch, Jeanneau Variant
since I was about 12.. Except what I’ve always
used it for is to tie the monofilament leader
onto a fly when fly casting. The knot (bend
actually) that I learned takes two passes
through the eye of the hook and then is tied
like the Jeanneau bend. And when I learned it
from my Grandfather it was called a fisherman’s bend.



And, BTW, one of the reasons the bowline is the
most basic knot taught in the US Power Squadron
and CG Auxilliary basic seamanship classes is –
according to the course material – that it it
retains around 90% of the strength of the line
you are using and is the highest among the common knots and bends.



Rick Brass

Washington, NC







From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Davin via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 6:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Patrick Davin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C&C 37+



I couldn't help but chuckle that Jeanneau owners
are claiming to have invented / named this
knot.  It's just the halyard hitch with a
different finish. So perhaps it should be called
halyard hitch, Jeanneau variant?






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your contributions.  Each and every one is
greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the
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--
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Re: Stus-List Halyard knots (was: Masthead sheaves C&C 37+)

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Can’t speak for the confined space rescuers, but the climbers switched from the 
bowline to the figure eight, mainly, because the bowline CAN untie by itself 
under certain situations.

Generally, the bowline is frowned upon in the life safety situations.

However, when I was learning to climb (a very long time ago), I was told that 
the bowline requires a second knot ( a hitch) after it. It was there to prevent 
it from unraveling.

Marek

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 23:03
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C&C 37+

I didn't spend much time comparing resources and references so take it for what 
it's worth but the website below did some tests and found the bowline reduced 
strength by ~60% where as the double fish knot broke at ~75%.  I'm not sure 
exactly what a double fish knot is compared to any of the other knots.  
Interestingly I was always taught that climers and confined space rescuer use a 
figue eight (reweave or on a bite) instead of a bowline because of its retained 
strength.  It's a interesting read at least.

http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope-hold.html

Josh

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018, 10:49 PM Rick Brass via CnC-List  
wrote:
I couldn’t help but chuckle because I’ve been tying the Halyard Hitch, Jeanneau 
Variant since I was about 12.. Except what I’ve always used it for is to tie 
the monofilament leader onto a fly when fly casting. The knot (bend actually) 
that I learned takes two passes through the eye of the hook and then is tied 
like the Jeanneau bend. And when I learned it from my Grandfather it was called 
a fisherman’s bend.

And, BTW, one of the reasons the bowline is the most basic knot taught in the 
US Power Squadron and CG Auxilliary basic seamanship classes is – according to 
the course material – that it retains around 90% of the strength of the line 
you are using and is the highest among the common knots and bends.

Rick Brass
Washington, NC



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick 
Davin via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 6:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Patrick Davin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C&C 37+

I couldn't help but chuckle that Jeanneau owners are claiming to have invented 
/ named this knot.  It's just the halyard hitch with a different finish. So 
perhaps it should be called halyard hitch, Jeanneau variant?



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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