Re: [ Book ] Thoughts on the newer Cocoon book?

2002-11-02 Thread mlangham
Hi everyone, I was just wondering if anyone else has looked at the newerof the Cocoon books entitled, Cocoon 2 Programming: Web Publishing withXML and Java ... I just picked it up last night and I'm working my waythrough it, and I was wondering what other people thought of it so far.I received my copy last week - but have only had time to flick through it. Of course my opinion may then be slightly biased :-)Matthew

client-programming with cocoon

2002-11-02 Thread Braun

since some time I use some perl programming using a lot of the 
cpan-modules bringing up information into real estate portals.
Soon you end up in a lot of change in your programming because of the 
change of the HTML-Pages from the portals.
It needs also a lot of time to find out what really changed.
Starting with a script from Michael Schilli I transfered the client 
program to XML and the HTML-Pages to XMl and some XSLT-Filtering to 
check for changes.
When I started to study cocoon I found a lot in common with the 
techniques I used in perl. An I thought that the command-line property 
could be used for this.
Maybe somebody already examined the usage of cocoon or its fundaments 
for client programming.


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sed or awk generator

2002-11-02 Thread Braun
I am using ACDSEE ON WINDOWS with descriptions of the pictures in 
sequential files. I want to aggreggate the pictures and their 
description in th xml-stream. The image-directory generator is a good 
solution but for the images but for the description-file I need some 
sort of file generator with sed or awk capability.
Has anybody a solution ?


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Re: sed or awk generator

2002-11-02 Thread Steven Noels
Braun wrote:


I am using ACDSEE ON WINDOWS with descriptions of the pictures in 
sequential files. I want to aggreggate the pictures and their 
description in th xml-stream. The image-directory generator is a good 
solution but for the images but for the description-file I need some 
sort of file generator with sed or awk capability.
Has anybody a solution ?

Chaperon might be what you need: http://chaperon.sourceforge.net/ and 
http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/chaperon/howto-chaperon-intro.html

/Steven
--
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Outerthought - Open Source, Java  XML Competence Support Center
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documentation issues (guides, hint, error retrieval)

2002-11-02 Thread SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous
Hello;

I want to adress three serious and tightly coupled issues
concerning development and deployment of webapps using
cocoon. All related to documentation:

1.) The application developers viewpoint
2.) The administrators viewpoint
3.) The cocoon error reporting issue

But i do not want to adress issues and let things open
for others. I could help getting things done, if it's not
already adressed by someone else of course.
But also then i would need a guide...



1.) The application developers viewpoint


I feel a bit lost in the cocoon hyperspace. I can find
a huge bunch of information in the docs. Many things
been described there seem to be of high relevance. The infos
given there all are quite understandable on themselves, but
nowhere i can find infos, under which circumstances i should
really use which part of cocoon to solve my problems. Yes i
know about cocoondev.org and i use the infos stored there and
i am happy with this, yes i read some very interesting articles
especially those from sn, (good stuff). I did not (yet) read
the books published about cocoon though...

Currently i start reengineering a JSP/XML intermixed webapp
using the cocoon framework and i constantly ask myself
following questions (concerning cocoon usage):

1.) It works, but is it how it was intended?
2.) What are the consequences of choosing this aproach?
3.) Will i fall into a trap, if i move further this way?

I could start tweeking around with every aspect of the
framework, until i understand the nuts and bolts in deepest
detail. Then i could decide, which approach i'd choose best
for my app. Maybe things must be done this way. But i am
afraid, doing this on my own would take too long time.

Instead i appreciate some guideline, that allows me to
start using cocoon in a simple, but effective way, so
i can jumpstart into production, without all the time
asking myself, if i am on the right trail. Then after
some time when i was leaded to the more complex issues
i start learning howto use the framework, but all the time
i keep beeing productive...
By the way, i was really happy with the bonebreaker example.
I like such an approach.


2.) The administrators viewpoint


When deploying my app to the customer, i will need to document
not only how the app works, but also how it is customised.
OK, i have to write an application specific administration manual.
But i don't want to reexplain, (e.g.) how cocoon sitemaps work
and so on. On the other hand i can't give them the (current)
cocoon docs, because they will get lost even more (they are no
programmers after all ;-)

I would appreciate some sort of HOWTO concerning customization,
which could be sorted by components, or strategies or
keywords, or completly different (Maybe this wiki approach
is good for this?) Then i would refer to this in my apps,
like: the sitemaps concept is briefly explained here and there...
Actually for the sitemaps this howto already exists thanks a lot
to the author ;-)




3.) The cocoon error reporting issue


Eventually my customers will want to add their own stuff
into the webapp. But then things get really a mess (in my eyes):

I constantly ask myself, why is cocoon so bad in error reporting?
After some time of investigation i managed to learn how i
have to interpret several stack trace patterns. I simply start
getting the feeling how to isolate the error cause from several
hundreds of trace lines all usefull for programmers but completely
useless for admins...

I asked some days ago, why it is so problematic to report an error
during an xslt transformation back to the browser.
Why can i find the errors reported in error.log (after digging deep)
but the pipeline (sometines) fails to report this to me?
In general errors reported back tend to be not well understandable
although in some cases looking at the error.log reviels much more
concrete infos about the error cause...

And even worse: For errors produced in a map:part
the only way to even get AWARE of them is looking into error.log
In general the only clue to an error occured is that i see nothing
on the screen. This could be really a nightmare for the admin.
By the way, since i plugged in saxon instead of xalan, my local
cocoon documentation all renders empty pages (of course no errors
on the pages - a naive admin would then state, the page is empty,
ok no docs available yet? aaarghh ;-)

OK, you could claim, cocoon is not an authoring tool, and getting
the XSLT's ready for production should be done outside of the
framework. But this is not a good approach in general, because you
simply have to take the application into account. Consider you have
tested your XSLT outside of cocoon and everything worked fine in your
testbed. Then you switch to cocoon and nothing goes...
How would you 

Re: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError

2002-11-02 Thread Kjetil Kjernsmo
On Friday 01 November 2002 16:32, Alex Romayev wrote:
 Sorry, it's 196M, not 96M.  Still not much, but it had
 been sufficient enough untill I've upgraded Tomcat to
 4.1.12!

I run Cocoon on 98MB RAM, and that works fine... GNU/Linux is the OS, 
though. The startup is very slow, but serving pages works well. Not 
that I wouldn't like a bigger box, but it is what I've got...

Best,

Kjetil
-- 
Kjetil Kjernsmo
Astrophysicist/IT Consultant/Skeptic/Ski-orienteer/Orienteer/Mountaineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://www.kjetil.kjernsmo.net/


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Re: Accessing the output of a modular db action in xsl

2002-11-02 Thread Phil Craven
When I try and get the bulk of the params that I am looking for, it seems as 
if they are lost between level 3 and level 2.  I believe that my stylesheet 
is trying to access the params at level 2.  How do I force the propagation of 
the values from level 3 to level 2?  Any help greatly appreciated.

Here is the relevant section of the sitemap log:
LEVEL 3
PARAM: 'content_item_id[0]' VALUE: 'gold building image'
PARAM: 'row-count' VALUE: '1'
PARAM: 'width[0]' VALUE: '150'
PARAM: 'align[0]' VALUE: 'right'
PARAM: 'site_id[0]' VALUE: 'bbs'
PARAM: 'class[0]' VALUE: ''
PARAM: 'verbage[0]' VALUE: ''
PARAM: 'content_item_type[0]' VALUE: 'image'
PARAM: 'height[0]' VALUE: '100'
PARAM: 'href[0]' VALUE: 'gold_building.jpg'
LEVEL 2
PARAM: '../href' VALUE: ''
PARAM: '../width' VALUE: ''
PARAM: '../context' VALUE: '/cocoon'
PARAM: '../class' VALUE: ''
PARAM: '../requestURI' VALUE: '/cocoon/formsample/group2.xsp'
PARAM: '../content_item_type' VALUE: ''
PARAM: '../verbage' VALUE: ''
PARAM: '../cocoon-action-sel-ci' VALUE: 'new ci'
PARAM: '../align' VALUE: ''
PARAM: '../site_id' VALUE: 'bbs'
PARAM: '../requestQuery' VALUE: 
'?site_id=bbscontent_item_id=gold+building+imagecontent_item_type=class=verbage=href=align=height=width=cocoon-action-sel-ci=new+ci'
PARAM: '../content_item_id' VALUE: 'gold building image'
PARAM: '../height' VALUE: ''
LEVEL 1
PARAM: '../../1' VALUE: 'group2'
PARAM: '../../0' VALUE: 'group2.xsp'


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Re: XMLForms vs Struts

2002-11-02 Thread Ivelin Ivanov
Please do.
Wiki is great, but I am not sure in which section would this one article go.
Please let me know where it went.

Thank you,

Ivelin


- Original Message -
From: Reinhard Poetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: XMLForms vs Struts


Ivelin,

As this is an often discussed question: Do you mind adding it to the
CocoonWiki? If no I could do it for you ...

Regards,
Reinhard

 -Original Message-
 From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin;apache.org]
 Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:52 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts



 I hope this will not make things even more confusing for you,
 but here is my view:

 Struts is 3 parts:
 1) An URL map, matching URLs to Actions.
 Everything you can do with struts-config.xml (Struts), you can do with
 sitemap.xmap (Cocoon).

 2) Custom JSP tags for rendering HTML, like i18n, access to JavaBean
 properties and others. Cocoon's set of transformers is a superset
 of Strut's
 visual tags.

 3) Form handling.
 Automated binding between HTML input fields and JavaBeans.
 Cocoon's XMLForm does that and much more. It not only provides
 the binding,
 but it does it in a browser independent way. Struts is only designed to
 handle automatically HTML input.


 For fairness sake, I will tell you that over the last 2 years I have used
 Struts successfully in big enterprise projects. It is a good and sound
 technology when you are only interested to support the major HTML browsers
 and you are not concerned with other interfaces to your application like
 WML, VXML, Web Services, etc.


 My recommendation is, if you are in a hurry and you don't want to invest
 time in learning a new technology, go Struts.

 If you plan to build a lot of web applications in the future, you
 must learn
 Cocoon. It will add a very powerful weapon to your software tools arsenal.

 You don't have to use it all the time, but when things start to look
 dangerously complex, you will find it to be a life saver.



 Best,

 Ivelin


 - Original Message -
 From: SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:48 AM
 Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts


 Hy;

 First let me tell you: I like the idea of merging cocoon and struts,
 because i see both technologies to be helpfull also in conjunction...

 Omar Tazi wrote:
  If you like the MVC aspect in Struts and like the flexibility provided
  by XML/XSLT, and don't like the limitations that come with JSPs, check
  out our Framework. It's called OXF (Open XML Framework). OXF is the
  result of our combined passion for Cocoon and Struts/J2EE and our
  involvement in huge enterprise projects. It will dramatically help you
  in your tasks (listed below). Good luck!
 

 But i am also a bit confused. I'm following the discussons in this
 mailing list for about a week now and this is already the second
 mentioning of a product/component (whatever) that claims to be an
 on top of cocoon development. But when i enter the pages mentioned
 above, it is very hard to find the backpointers to cocoon as the
 base component...

 Despite that all this stuff sounds very interesting, but i get more
 and more unshure how to proceed. Some questions rise in my mind:

 1.) Why are all such nice and nifty add ons developed all outside
 of cocoon ?
 2.) When i move to such an add on component, how can i enshure
 to keep up with the releases of cocoon (taking adavantage
 of the enhancements done there)?
 3.) Why can't i find pointers to these add ons from the cocoon pages ?

 There is sooo many good software around the world and cocoon for me is one
 of the finest. Why does not all this effort take place at the heart but
 is cluttered around in several loosely coupled or even uncoupled
 add on projects ???

 And now my final question (to come back to the technical part):
 Why is it so complicated to use struts and cocoon in parallel?
 As far as i understand the concepts of cocoon, i can embed JSP's
 in it's workflow, and if a jsp itself uses struts, why not???
 Although i haven't tried yet, for me these things seem to be
 coexisting without problems ...

 Any enlightments on these points are happily welcome...
 best regards, Hussayn

 --
 Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
 SAXESS Software Design GmbH
 Neuenhöfer Allee 125
 50935 Köln
 Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
 Fax: +49-221-56011-20
 E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: documentation issues (guides, hint, error retrieval)

2002-11-02 Thread mlangham
Hi,I'm sorry to be so direct: I don't think you have really yet grasped what it means to use open source software or to paricipate in an open source community. In a cathedral world you could demand that the vendor of your software answers all your questions - but here - things are different. Have you not noticed that you are receiving no answers to your questions? Don't you ask yourself why this is so? I can assure you it is not because there is no-one here :-). i am happy with this, yes i read some very interesting articlesespecially those from sn, (good stuff). I did not (yet) readthe books published about cocoon though...If you are looking for the big picture then I really do suggest you read our book (sorry: shameless plug). You will gain a better idea of Cocoon and how you can use which parts to do what.If you want to know which parts of Cocoon may help you in your new application then go ahead and post more details on what you are looking for. There is a lot of experience here and I am sure people will be able to point you in the right direction. But if you are looking for people to do your work for you - then you've come to the wrong place.If you think features in Cocoon are lacking then check out the code from CVS, make it better and then submit your changes. There is a separate mailing list for developers (cocoon-dev). Again, sorry for being so direct. I would be happy to provide more information if you still do not understand how things work here. Best regardsMatthew LanghamSN

Re: Cocoon Orion

2002-11-02 Thread Steven Punte

--- Alejandro Raiczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Hi, I'm trying to run C2 in Orion and I get the
 following error:
 
 org.apache.cocoon.ProcessingException: Error
 compiling sitemap:
 java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
 org/apache/batik/dom/svg/SAXSVGDocumentFactory
   at

org.apache.cocoon.sitemap.Handler.run(Handler.java:290)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484)
 java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
 org/apache/batik/dom/svg/SAXSVGDocumentFactory

File ~cocoon_2.0.3/WEB-INF/lib/batik-all-1.5b2.jar
seems to be corrupted or just somehow not 
properly packaged.  That is command:

jar tvf batik-all-1.5b2.jar

fail on freshly downloaded binaries.  

I'll send you a version that I've gotton to
work by unzipping using winzip and then 
re-archiving.

Not sure why this isn't seen on all server?

Steve Punte

__
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Re: documentation issues (guides, hint, error retrieval)

2002-11-02 Thread SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous
hy, Matthew;

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,

I'm sorry to be so direct: I don't think you have really yet grasped 
what it means to use open source software or to paricipate in an open 
source community.  In a cathedral world you could demand that the vendor
of your software answers all your questions - but here - things are 
different.  ...

1.) no problem with beeing direct, that's ok.
2.) i stated in the first few lines of my mail, that i am happily
willing to help working on the docs, if noone else is
currently in the issues i mentioned. Sorry, i should have
stated this more clearly ...


If you are looking for the big picture then I really do suggest you 
read our book (sorry: shameless plug). You will gain a better idea of 
Cocoon and how you can use which parts to do what.

Thanks for the tip. I will consider looking into this.



If you want to know which parts of Cocoon may help you in your new 
application then go ahead and post more details on what you are looking 
for. There is a lot of experience here and I am sure people will be able 
to point you in the right direction. But if you are looking for people 
to do your work for you - then you've come to the wrong place.

Sorry, i don't think YOU got me right here ;-) I am simply pointing out
things, that i found in cocoon, which i am puzzled about (thanks again
for your answer last week). I never said, it's anybody else who should
do this for me. But i am searching for people, who may have stumbled
into the same issues and possibly are interested in seeing such issues
solved. If i am on my own with my issues it makes no sense to touch the
cocoon sources, right?


If you think features in Cocoon are lacking then check out the code from 
CVS, make it better and then submit your changes. There is a separate 
mailing list for developers (cocoon-dev).

You are right. My last point (error reporting) does not directly belong
to the user-list. I will consider putting it into the developers list.
But as you warned (me see above) it might be no good idea though ;-)


Again, sorry for being so direct. I would be happy to provide more 
information if you still do not understand how things work here.

Maybe you are right. I might not understand how things work. But i
never never never  would ask others to make my job. (got me now?)

best regards, hussayn



Best regards

 

Matthew Langham

SN


--
Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
SAXESS Software Design GmbH
Neuenhöfer Allee 125
50935 Köln
Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
Fax: +49-221-56011-20
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Accessing the output of a modular db action in xsl

2002-11-02 Thread Christian Haul
On 02.Nov.2002 -- 07:22 AM, Phil Craven wrote:
 When I try and get the bulk of the params that I am looking for, it seems as 
 if they are lost between level 3 and level 2.  I believe that my stylesheet 
 is trying to access the params at level 2.  How do I force the propagation of 
 the values from level 3 to level 2?  Any help greatly appreciated.
 
 Here is the relevant section of the sitemap log:
 LEVEL 3
 PARAM: 'content_item_id[0]' VALUE: 'gold building image'

 LEVEL 2
 PARAM: '../context' VALUE: '/cocoon'

 LEVEL 1
 PARAM: '../../1' VALUE: 'group2'

Why don't you use {../context} ?

Chris.
-- 
C h r i s t i a n   H a u l
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
fingerprint: 99B0 1D9D 7919 644A 4837  7D73 FEF9 6856 335A 9E08

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Re: Cocoon Orion

2002-11-02 Thread Alejandro Raiczyk
Thanks a lot Steven!!! It worked.
- Original Message - 
From: Steven Punte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Cocoon  Orion


 
 --- Alejandro Raiczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  Hi, I'm trying to run C2 in Orion and I get the
  following error:
  
  org.apache.cocoon.ProcessingException: Error
  compiling sitemap:
  java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
  org/apache/batik/dom/svg/SAXSVGDocumentFactory
  at
 
 org.apache.cocoon.sitemap.Handler.run(Handler.java:290)
  at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484)
  java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
  org/apache/batik/dom/svg/SAXSVGDocumentFactory
 
 File ~cocoon_2.0.3/WEB-INF/lib/batik-all-1.5b2.jar
 seems to be corrupted or just somehow not 
 properly packaged.  That is command:
 
 jar tvf batik-all-1.5b2.jar
 
 fail on freshly downloaded binaries.  
 
 I'll send you a version that I've gotton to
 work by unzipping using winzip and then 
 re-archiving.
 
 Not sure why this isn't seen on all server?
 
 Steve Punte
 
 __
 Do you Yahoo!?
 HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
 http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
 
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Re: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError

2002-11-02 Thread Alex Romayev
Which version of Tomcat are you running? 

It seems that it has to do with my upgrade, either the
new version of Tomcat (4.1.12) requires all of a
sudden requires a lot more memory (not very likely) or
there is some incompatibility (shared libraries,
version of Java, ...?).

Has anyone else tried Tomcat 4.1.12 and the latest
Cocoon 2.1 dev?  Any issues with that?

Any ideas, even half baked would help at the moment!

Thanks,
-Alex


--- Kjetil Kjernsmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Friday 01 November 2002 16:32, Alex Romayev
 wrote:
  Sorry, it's 196M, not 96M.  Still not much, but it
 had
  been sufficient enough untill I've upgraded Tomcat
 to
  4.1.12!
 
 I run Cocoon on 98MB RAM, and that works fine...
 GNU/Linux is the OS, 
 though. The startup is very slow, but serving pages
 works well. Not 
 that I wouldn't like a bigger box, but it is what
 I've got...
 
 Best,
 
 Kjetil
 -- 
 Kjetil Kjernsmo
 Astrophysicist/IT

Consultant/Skeptic/Ski-orienteer/Orienteer/Mountaineer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Homepage: http://www.kjetil.kjernsmo.net/
 
 

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Re: XMLForms and Java

2002-11-02 Thread Ivelin Ivanov
good point.
Would you like to submit a patch?


- Original Message -
From: Mauro Daniel Ardolino [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: XMLForms and Java


 All right! Now I'm up to date with the XMLForms vs Struts thread.
 But I still have the same questions (of the previous mail).


 About XMLForm and Struts:
 May be I had to say inspired, not based.
 The XMLForm framework is inspired by Apache Jakarta Struts and W3C
 XForms.
 This is from: http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/userdocs/concepts/xmlform.html

 Thanks.

 -- Mauro

 On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Jacob L E Blain Christen wrote:

  [pre-snip]
   Now I want to give some flow logic to the application and I think that
   struts or cocoon are a good way to do it.  I red that XMLForms is
Struts
   based.
  [post-snip]
 
  From what I've read XMLForms IS NOT based on Struts.
  Take a look at the thread:  XMLForms vs Struts in the archive for this
  mailing
  list (the discussion is ongoing).
 
  --
  Jacob
 
 
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 --
 Ing.Mauro Daniel Ardolino
 Departamento de Desarrollo y Servicios
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Re: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError

2002-11-02 Thread Kjetil Kjernsmo
On Saturday 02 November 2002 21:29, Alex Romayev wrote:
 Which version of Tomcat are you running?

4.1.12.

 It seems that it has to do with my upgrade, either the
 new version of Tomcat (4.1.12) requires all of a
 sudden requires a lot more memory (not very likely) or
 there is some incompatibility (shared libraries,
 version of Java, ...?).

I really have no clue, but I had many unresolved issues with other 
installations. For the record, my current configuration is
Debian Woody GNU/Linux 2.4.19, Java SDK 1.3.1 Debian packages from 
Blackdown, Tomcat 4.1.12 and Cocoon 2.1-dev. Indeed, the Java processes 
that runs take up a lot more memory than I have (yeah, I'd _like_ a 
better box, if anybody has a PII mobo lying around, I have a CPU.. :-) 
), but I can't see anything that indicates that the memory requirement 
is much greater with Tomcat 4.1.12 than the Debian packages of 4.0.3. 

 Has anyone else tried Tomcat 4.1.12 and the latest
 Cocoon 2.1 dev?  Any issues with that?

None here. That is, I haven't really put it to the test yet, but at 
least it runs. 

 Any ideas, even half baked would help at the moment!

I know how it feels... All I can say: Linux is cool, you know...! :-)

Best,

Kjetil
-- 
Kjetil Kjernsmo
Astrophysicist/IT Consultant/Skeptic/Ski-orienteer/Orienteer/Mountaineer
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Homepage: http://www.kjetil.kjernsmo.net/


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