Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Eric Celeste]

>
> To offer a counterpoint to no PHP folks, One reason I like PHP is because

right now its pretty much essential to know if you are using open source web

applications like MediaWiki, Wordpress or Drupal. I feel like Javascript is

also a must for web work.


Agreed. I actually hated both PHP and JavaScript, but found I had to know
them. I've become more of a fan of JavaScript, even though it is an odd
beast. It is just so accessible and (carefully deployed) powerful that it is
hard to resist. A kind of Dennis the Menace of the web.

PHP is another story. I do need it for just those apps Karen describes. When
I want to dig in I need PHP. But I still hate PHP. The online documentation
is great, but it really _needs_ this documentation since it seems every
function uses a slightly different parameter order or return type and you
never know what to expect without looking it up. Unfortunately, this loose
ethic has infected code written with PHP so that Drupal and WordPress both
suffer the same problems.

Yes, if you are going to dig into existing apps you may need PHP. That's why
it is good to know what problems you need to solve _before_ committing to
your language. The code already written is part of the _community_ of the
language. You will do better if you can speak the language of the community.
But if you do not have to learn PHP, I would not make it a starting point.
It is just too scattered to be fun, at least for me. I would never use PHP
to teach programming, though I might use JavaScript or Ruby with new or
returning programmers.


> I keep toying with Ruby on Rails and getting about 1/3 of the way into the
> book I have before getting completely sidetracked by another project.


I had this same problem for a few years. Part of the turn-off for me was the
very "insiderness" of the Ruby crowd. Rails, especially, forces a way of
thinking on you, a "religion" as I often term it. Many languages do this,
but I found many of the books assumed you were ready to adopt the religion,
and I was not.

I finally broke through this barrier with the help of "Learning Rails" from
O'Reilly press. The authors of this book are explicitly skeptical of some of
the Rails religion, and make it clear when they are following "the way" and
when they wander afield a bit. I found this welcoming and very helpful for
arriving at Rails with my own set of questions and assumptions.

I don't think Rails is magical or a solution to all (or even most) problems.
But I do think it is a great deal of fun and a very efficient and effective
framework for database-backed web apps. Especially if you have found
yourself enjoying SmallTalk, Model-View-Controller, Cocoa programming, or
the like, you might find a comfortable home and community in Ruby on Rails
once you break through the crusty religious barrier.

...Eric

Eric Celeste / e...@clst.org / http://eric.clst.org / 651-323-2009

Re: [CODE4LIB] WorldCat Terminologies

[LeVan,Ralph]

The database description has been updated to reflect the weekly updates.

Lol.  While I was at it, I looked at the timestamp on the database.  February.  
It seems that alcme.org was moved to a new machine back in February, but I was 
still putting the database on the old machine.  The database has been updated, 
as have the procedures.  I'll verify next Tuesday that the new procedure was 
successful in automatically putting the new database into place.

Ralph

> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of
> Karen Coyle
> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:30 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] WorldCat Terminologies
> 
> Quoting "LeVan,Ralph" :
> 
> > I hate to muddy the waters, but I can't resist here.
> >
> > Research also exposes a copy of the LC NAF at
> > http://alcme.oclc.org/srw/search/lcnaf
> >
> > It gets updated every Tuesday night.
> 
> Unfortunately, that page states right up front:
> 
> "A static copy of LC's Name Authority File from February of 2006"
> 
> That might confuse visitors. Maybe a quick revision is in order? :-)
> 
> Also, API access?
> 
> kc
> 
> >
> > This is something I've been maintaining for years and is what
> > Identities points at when you ask to see the NAF record associated
> > with an Identities record.
> >
> > This particular service has none of the linked-data-type bells and
> > whistles I'm putting into VIAF and Identities, but easily could, if
> > there was interest.  I believe I've made the indexing on it
> > consistent with what I do in Identities.
> >
> > Looking at the configuration file for the load of this database, I
> > am omitting records with 100$k, 100$t, 100$v, 100$x or any 130
> > fields.  I'm sure Ya'aqov (or other similarly expert Authority
> > Librarian) could tell you why I am omitting them, because I can't
> > off the top of my head.
> >
> > This service is actually running as a long established model of how
> > similar services should run in Research.  While it is not running on
> >  a machine operated by our production staff, it is automatically
> > monitored by them, they have restart procedures in places when the
> > service becomes unresponsive and problems are escalated by email
> > when the restart fails to fix the problem. (Those emails come to me
> > and where they get treated appropriately.)
> >
> > Let me know if there are questions about any of this.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf
> Of
> >> Ya'aqov Ziso
> >> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:29 PM
> >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] WorldCat Terminologies
> >>
> >> Jonathan, thank you, in full accord.  Yes, the crux of the matter is Names
> >> (NAF being the more expensive library subscription
> >> and the one not available for free like http://id.loc.gov
> >>
> >> At http://orlabs.oclc.org/Identities/ I searched Œclapton, eric¹ and 
> >> wonder:
> >>
> >> * are all WorldCat+NAF 49 retrieved headings there helpful? do we need in
> >> the list  Œclayton, cecile¹ (etc.)
> >> * Names that haven¹t made it into an authority record are definitely
> >> helpful, but can we suggest a way to sort and rank them more usefully (for
> >> the user) on the page?
> >>
> >> Your thoughts?
> >> Ya¹aqov
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/19/10 2:35 PM, "Jonathan Rochkind"  wrote:
> >>
> >> > I don't think the inclusion of non-NAF headings in Identities is
> >> a flaw, it's
> >> > a benefit to the purpose of Identities not to be held back by the 
> >> > somewhat
> >> > glacial pace of change in NAF.  But you're right, the right tool
> >> for the job,
> >> > I don't know that any of the existing OCLC "free" (or included
> >> with other OCLC
> >> > membership/services) services are the right tool to replace any existing
> >> > purchased authorities tools or sources. It depends on what you're
> >>  using them
> >> > for, of course.  I agree that the brochure statement was potentially
> >> > misleading, but these (Identities, Terminologies, Research
> >> Terminologies) are
> >> > still very interesting and useful services.
> >> > 
> >> > From: Code for Libraries [code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of
> >> Ya'aqov Ziso
> >> > [z...@rowan.edu]
> >> > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 2:14 PM
> >> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> >> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] WorldCat Terminologies
> >> >
> >> > Karen,
> >> > Seems like pulling-teeth was worth it. Thank you for these updates and 
> >> > for
> >> > making them available for all interested.
> >> > Essentially, given your 6 months latency compared to
> >> http://id.loc.gov) and
> >> > the inclusion of NAF and non-NAF headings in Identities,
> >> > both Terminologies and Identities are not yet at a level of databases 
> >> > that
> >> > libraries can go for, forgoing what they currently need to buy, load, and
> >> > maintain locally.
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Richard, Joel M]

I'll strongly agree with Roy on this one. Yesterday a coworker came to me 
asking text editors. I said, "For what do you need a good text editor?" Turns 
out she couldn't open a file in Notepad It was 3.6 GB in size (which you 
wouldn't want to open anyway) In the end, all we needed to do was a clever grep 
against the file to extract some specific data. And that's just a simple 
example.

So yes, sooner or later you'll find yourself needing a flexible programming 
language to solve a problem. Had our searching been more than a simple series 
of greps, I would have jumped into Perl to accomplish the task, but I'm sure 
other languages would work just as well.

--Joel


Joel Richard
IT Specialist, Web Services Department
Smithsonian Institution Libraries | http://www.sil.si.edu/
(202) 633-1706 | (202) 786-2861 (f) | richar...@si.edu




From: Roy Tennant 
Reply-To: Code for Libraries 
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:57:23 -0400
To: 
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

On Mar 24, 2010, at 7:17 PM, Tim  wrote:
>
> Largest website in Perl: Del.icio.us
>
> Largest website in PHP: Facebook

You're assuming the only use for a programming language is to
dynamically serve up a web site. That would be a serious mistake.
Roy

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Jon Gorman]

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM, jenny  wrote:
> My question is, where would you recommend I would begin? What's hot
> right now in the library world? Python, PERL, Ruby? Any advice you'd
> have for a beginner like me or even recommendations for online courses
> would be extremely appreciated


Hi Jenny,

You've gotten lots of good advice and debate about programming
languages but my advice is going to be a little bit on a different
track.

First, in general I'd re-empathize what some other folks have said.
Projects are great way to learn a language, although i find a "intro
to x language" also useful to work through at the very beginning of a
language.  I have found that classes are useful for me mainly because
they give me deadlines and I usually try to go above and beyond the
call of duty as far as classes go. It's not so much I'm learning from
the lectures as it provides a structure for me to learn from and
deadlines to work toward.  The standards for many classes though are
lower than the standards I set for myself so I tend to do overkill for
actual assignments.

So community college classes might be useful for that purpose.  I'd
also say some really good courses in software design and engineering
can be really good, but it's hard to find good courses in those from
what I can tell.  Some signs of a good course: frequent group
projects, long-term projects, design being taught, a versioning and
feature/bug tracking framework setup for students and students are
expected to use it, professor does code reviews.

Mostly, lots of reading and lots of coding.  Look around for tutorials
on the web that go beyond "hello world".  Safari can be really good
here, and 24x7 isn't bad.  If you can get someone else to pay for it
or use an institutional account that would be good.  Choose some books
on your programming language.  Also read some non-programming language
specific books like The Pragmatic Programmer, Peopleware, and the
Mythical Man-month.  (The latter two are older but still some of the
best non-technical/management type books I've read).

Find a programming environment that's comfortable for you and also try
out some different operating systems and interfaces.  You could start
easy and start looking into various "Live CD" distributions.  That way
you can burn a cd or dvd with a new operating system and boot from it
and poke around.  Another thing you might want to investigate is using
Virtual Machines.  I have to confess that I haven't used virtual
machines in my home environment much, but I suspect it would be
really, really useful for learning.  That way you can set up a
"virtual server" and install things like databases or web servers
without worrying about mucking up your own system.  There is some
(Indeed, had you asked this question six to eight years ago, I'd say
make sure you have a setup where you can mess up your machine but
recover).   Hopefully after trying different operating systems, text
editors, IDEs, version control systems, etc you find tools you really
like.  (Oh yeah, try to start learning some version control tools
too...they're life-savers).

Jon Gorman

I



>
> JC
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Brian Stamper]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:51:38 -0400, Mark Tomko   
wrote:


I wouldn't recommend PHP to learn as a programming language, if your  
goal is to have a general purpose programming language at your  
disposal.  PHP is a fine language for building dynamic web pages, but it  
won't help you to slice and dice a big text file or process a bunch of  
XML or do some other "odd job" that you don't want to do by hand.




To be precise, PHP can indeed do these kind of things, particularly in  
command line mode. I certainly don't recommend it, but if you're used to  
PHP for other reasons, and you already have it available to you, you can  
do 'odd jobs' with PHP. You can also use your teeth to open a tight bottle  
cap, the edge of a knife as a screwdriver, and duct tape to perform auto  
repairs.


Brian

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Shirley Lincicum]

If you don't have access to Safari or books 24x7 through other means
(e.g. work, affiliation with a public or academic library), you can
get access to a decent collection of current programming ebooks by
joining ACM, see http://pd.acm.org/ for details. A Professional
membership is $99 annually. Though I haven't tried them yet myself,
Professional membership also provides access to online courses in
programming and related topics.

Shirley

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 6:19 AM, Jon Gorman  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM, jenny  wrote:
>> My question is, where would you recommend I would begin? What's hot
>> right now in the library world? Python, PERL, Ruby? Any advice you'd
>> have for a beginner like me or even recommendations for online courses
>> would be extremely appreciated
>
>
> Hi Jenny,
>
> You've gotten lots of good advice and debate about programming
> languages but my advice is going to be a little bit on a different
> track.
>
> First, in general I'd re-empathize what some other folks have said.
> Projects are great way to learn a language, although i find a "intro
> to x language" also useful to work through at the very beginning of a
> language.  I have found that classes are useful for me mainly because
> they give me deadlines and I usually try to go above and beyond the
> call of duty as far as classes go. It's not so much I'm learning from
> the lectures as it provides a structure for me to learn from and
> deadlines to work toward.  The standards for many classes though are
> lower than the standards I set for myself so I tend to do overkill for
> actual assignments.
>
> So community college classes might be useful for that purpose.  I'd
> also say some really good courses in software design and engineering
> can be really good, but it's hard to find good courses in those from
> what I can tell.  Some signs of a good course: frequent group
> projects, long-term projects, design being taught, a versioning and
> feature/bug tracking framework setup for students and students are
> expected to use it, professor does code reviews.
>
> Mostly, lots of reading and lots of coding.  Look around for tutorials
> on the web that go beyond "hello world".  Safari can be really good
> here, and 24x7 isn't bad.  If you can get someone else to pay for it
> or use an institutional account that would be good.  Choose some books
> on your programming language.  Also read some non-programming language
> specific books like The Pragmatic Programmer, Peopleware, and the
> Mythical Man-month.  (The latter two are older but still some of the
> best non-technical/management type books I've read).
>
> Find a programming environment that's comfortable for you and also try
> out some different operating systems and interfaces.  You could start
> easy and start looking into various "Live CD" distributions.  That way
> you can burn a cd or dvd with a new operating system and boot from it
> and poke around.  Another thing you might want to investigate is using
> Virtual Machines.  I have to confess that I haven't used virtual
> machines in my home environment much, but I suspect it would be
> really, really useful for learning.  That way you can set up a
> "virtual server" and install things like databases or web servers
> without worrying about mucking up your own system.  There is some
> (Indeed, had you asked this question six to eight years ago, I'd say
> make sure you have a setup where you can mess up your machine but
> recover).   Hopefully after trying different operating systems, text
> editors, IDEs, version control systems, etc you find tools you really
> like.  (Oh yeah, try to start learning some version control tools
> too...they're life-savers).
>
> Jon Gorman
>
> I
>
>
>
>>
>> JC
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Yitzchak Schaffer]

On 3/25/2010 10:24, Brian Stamper wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:51:38 -0400, Mark Tomko 
wrote:


I wouldn't recommend PHP to learn as a programming language, if your
goal is to have a general purpose programming language at your
disposal. PHP is a fine language for building dynamic web pages, but
it won't help you to slice and dice a big text file or process a bunch
of XML or do some other "odd job" that you don't want to do by hand.



To be precise, PHP can indeed do these kind of things, particularly in
command line mode. I certainly don't recommend it, but if you're used to
PHP for other reasons, and you already have it available to you, you can
do 'odd jobs' with PHP. You can also use your teeth to open a tight
bottle cap, the edge of a knife as a screwdriver, and duct tape to
perform auto repairs.


++

Especially if you're doing or thinking of doing things in the general 
web arena, PHP is widely used, well-supported by a variety of 
open-source libraries/frameworks/other projects, and webhosts.  It can 
probably do X, though something else might do it better.  That's why I 
adopted PHP: overall success.


See also http://i.imgur.com/pG3q7.jpg

--
Yitzchak Schaffer
Systems Manager
Touro College Libraries
33 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10010
Tel (212) 463-0400 x5230
Fax (212) 627-3197
Email yitzchak.schaf...@tourolib.org

Access Problems? Contact systems.libr...@touro.edu

[CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Joe Hourcle]

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Brian Stamper wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:51:38 -0400, Mark Tomko  
wrote:


I wouldn't recommend PHP to learn as a programming language, if your goal 
is to have a general purpose programming language at your disposal.  PHP is 
a fine language for building dynamic web pages, but it won't help you to 
slice and dice a big text file or process a bunch of XML or do some other 
"odd job" that you don't want to do by hand.


To be precise, PHP can indeed do these kind of things, particularly in 
command line mode. I certainly don't recommend it, but if you're used to PHP 
for other reasons, and you already have it available to you, you can do 'odd 
jobs' with PHP. You can also use your teeth to open a tight bottle cap, the 
edge of a knife as a screwdriver, and duct tape to perform auto repairs.


You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all 
duct tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works 
just fine for the occassional hose repair.


-Joe

[1] http://thereifixedit.com/

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[MJ Suhonos]

Contemporary library web development: a Series of Hoses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes

MJ

On 2010-03-25, at 11:00 AM, Joe Hourcle wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Brian Stamper wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:51:38 -0400, Mark Tomko  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I wouldn't recommend PHP to learn as a programming language, if your goal 
>>> is to have a general purpose programming language at your disposal.  PHP is 
>>> a fine language for building dynamic web pages, but it won't help you to 
>>> slice and dice a big text file or process a bunch of XML or do some other 
>>> "odd job" that you don't want to do by hand.
>> 
>> To be precise, PHP can indeed do these kind of things, particularly in 
>> command line mode. I certainly don't recommend it, but if you're used to PHP 
>> for other reasons, and you already have it available to you, you can do 'odd 
>> jobs' with PHP. You can also use your teeth to open a tight bottle cap, the 
>> edge of a knife as a screwdriver, and duct tape to perform auto repairs.
> 
> You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all duct 
> tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works just fine 
> for the occassional hose repair.
> 
> -Joe
> 
> [1] http://thereifixedit.com/

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Yitzchak Schaffer]

On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:

I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
recommend PHP to beginners.

Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
to clean up after them.


Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning 
its vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid 
security holes in web code in general.


--
Yitzchak Schaffer
Systems Manager
Touro College Libraries
33 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10010
Tel (212) 463-0400 x5230
Fax (212) 627-3197
Email yitzchak.schaf...@tourolib.org

Access Problems? Contact systems.libr...@touro.edu

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Matthew Bachtell]

As someone who uses PHP to do the small things I would recommend using
Python or another language.  I am trying to transition away from PHP to
Python as it is not a panacea.  PHP's great for web scripting but was never
intended to do all of the duct taped projects that I have put together with
it.



On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Yitzchak Schaffer <
yitzchak.schaf...@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:
>
>> I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
>> recommend PHP to beginners.
>>
>> Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
>> incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
>> to clean up after them.
>>
>
> Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning its
> vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid security holes
> in web code in general.
>
> --
> Yitzchak Schaffer
> Systems Manager
> Touro College Libraries
> 33 West 23rd Street
> New York, NY 10010
> Tel (212) 463-0400 x5230
> Fax (212) 627-3197
> Email yitzchak.schaf...@tourolib.org
>
> Access Problems? Contact systems.libr...@touro.edu
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Gabriel Farrell]

You should /join #code4lib. Only there will you learn the secret one
true path to wisdom.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Matthew Bachtell
 wrote:
> As someone who uses PHP to do the small things I would recommend using
> Python or another language.  I am trying to transition away from PHP to
> Python as it is not a panacea.  PHP's great for web scripting but was never
> intended to do all of the duct taped projects that I have put together with
> it.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Yitzchak Schaffer <
> yitzchak.schaf...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:
>>
>>> I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
>>> recommend PHP to beginners.
>>>
>>> Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
>>> incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
>>> to clean up after them.
>>>
>>
>> Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning its
>> vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid security holes
>> in web code in general.
>>
>> --
>> Yitzchak Schaffer
>> Systems Manager
>> Touro College Libraries
>> 33 West 23rd Street
>> New York, NY 10010
>> Tel (212) 463-0400 x5230
>> Fax (212) 627-3197
>> Email yitzchak.schaf...@tourolib.org
>>
>> Access Problems? Contact systems.libr...@touro.edu
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Benjamin Young]

He means JavaScript. ;)

Honestly, though, PHP and all it's fault not withstanding, I highly 
recommend starting with a C syntax-based language such as JavaScript, 
PHP, Java, or even C# (and obviously C and C++). Get some basic 
programming concepts understood, and then pursue the language the fits 
the bill for the task you're trying to solve.


Most languages share some similarities, so moving between them gets 
easier as you go a long. Starting with a C syntax-based language will 
put you in good stead for learning several more (the list above is by no 
means exhaustive).


If you want to check out some language usage statistics, I recommend 
these two sites:

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
http://langpop.com/

And do join the #code4lib IRC channel. It's enjoyable regardless of the 
language you pick. :)


On 3/25/10 11:36 AM, Gabriel Farrell wrote:

You should /join #code4lib. Only there will you learn the secret one
true path to wisdom.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Matthew Bachtell
  wrote:
   

As someone who uses PHP to do the small things I would recommend using
Python or another language.  I am trying to transition away from PHP to
Python as it is not a panacea.  PHP's great for web scripting but was never
intended to do all of the duct taped projects that I have put together with
it.



On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Yitzchak Schaffer<
yitzchak.schaf...@gmx.com>  wrote:

 

On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:

   

I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
recommend PHP to beginners.

Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
to clean up after them.

 

Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning its
vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid security holes
in web code in general.

--
Yitzchak Schaffer
Systems Manager
Touro College Libraries
33 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10010
Tel (212) 463-0400 x5230
Fax (212) 627-3197
Email yitzchak.schaf...@tourolib.org

Access Problems? Contact systems.libr...@touro.edu

   
 

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Nate Vack]

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Joe Hourcle
 wrote:

> You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all duct
> tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works just fine
> for the occassional hose repair.

At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
need later.

Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
over the place.

Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
that will benefit no one ;-)

Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
-Nate

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Bill Dueber]

Also...it's pretty good for plugging leaks in ducts.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Nate Vack  wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Joe Hourcle
>  wrote:
>
> > You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all
> duct
> > tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works just
> fine
> > for the occassional hose repair.
>
> At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
> Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
> duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
> it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
> moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
> moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
> everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
> need later.
>
> Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
> something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
> you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
> over the place.
>
> Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
> that will benefit no one ;-)
>
> Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
> -Nate
>



-- 
Bill Dueber
Library Systems Programmer
University of Michigan Library

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Sean Moore]

I remember watching a show once where they tested various tapes for
suitability of duct patching. Duct tape actually came in quite low on the
list.

"To provide lab data about which sealants and tapes last, and which are
likely to fail, research was conducted at Lawrence Berkeley National
Laboratory Environmental Energy Technologies Division. Their major
conclusion was that one should not use duct tape to seal ducts (specialty
tapes are available for this purpose). (They defined duct tape as any
fabric-based tape with rubber adhesive.) The testing done shows that under
challenging but realistic conditions, duct tapes become brittle and may
fail.[6] Commonly duct
tape carries no safety certifications such as
UL
 or Proposition
65,
which means the tape can violently burn, produce toxic smoke, ingestion and
contact toxicity, irregular mechanical strength, and low life expectancy for
the adhesive on the tape. Its use in ducts has been prohibited by the state
of California 
[7]
and
by building codes in most other places in the
U.S. However,
metalized and aluminum  tapes used by
professionals are still often called "duck/duct tapes"."

- Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#Usage_on_ductwork

So ... there you go.  However, according to the Mythbusters, it is good for
building sail boats and cannons.

-Sean
 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Bill Dueber  wrote:

> Also...it's pretty good for plugging leaks in ducts.
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Nate Vack  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Joe Hourcle
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all
> > duct
> > > tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works just
> > fine
> > > for the occassional hose repair.
> >
> > At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
> > Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
> > duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
> > it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
> > moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
> > moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
> > everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
> > need later.
> >
> > Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
> > something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
> > you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
> > over the place.
> >
> > Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
> > that will benefit no one ;-)
> >
> > Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
> > -Nate
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Bill Dueber
> Library Systems Programmer
> University of Michigan Library
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Michael J. Giarlo]

Quack.

-Mike

P.S. Oh, "duct."


On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:55, Bill Dueber  wrote:
> Also...it's pretty good for plugging leaks in ducts.
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Nate Vack  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Joe Hourcle
>>  wrote:
>>
>> > You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all
>> duct
>> > tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works just
>> fine
>> > for the occassional hose repair.
>>
>> At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
>> Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
>> duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
>> it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
>> moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
>> moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
>> everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
>> need later.
>>
>> Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
>> something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
>> you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
>> over the place.
>>
>> Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
>> that will benefit no one ;-)
>>
>> Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
>> -Nate
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bill Dueber
> Library Systems Programmer
> University of Michigan Library
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[MJ Suhonos]

> Also...it's pretty good for plugging leaks in ducts.

Actually, true story:

I was in the hardware store, poking around the tape section, with a roll of 
your typical silver duct tape in my hand, obviously browsing.  An employee came 
up to me asking what I was looking for, and for what purpose.

I told him I was actually going to be taping metal ducts, to which he pointed 
at the duct tape in my hand and replied "oh, then that's not what you want, 
this is what you want", and handed me some strange plastic stuff I'd never seen 
before.

So, apparently duct tape isn't even good for taping ducts anymore.

MJ

>> At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
>> Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
>> duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
>> it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
>> moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
>> moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
>> everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
>> need later.
>> 
>> Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
>> something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
>> you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
>> over the place.
>> 
>> Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
>> that will benefit no one ;-)
>> 
>> Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
>> -Nate

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Joe Hourcle]

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote:


On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:

I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
recommend PHP to beginners.

Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
to clean up after them.


Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning its 
vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid security holes 
in web code in general.


Unfortunately, it's not all web code.  Part of the issue is in selecting 
the correct tool for the job.


Case in point --

I've been working for the last year to integrate a new data system into 
our federation.  The system officially hasn't gone live yet, so as the 
institution building the system had replaced their full time DBA with a 
contractor, the contractor decided he was going to replace all of the work 
that the DBA had already done to enable external sites to subscribe to 
collections within the system.


Unfortunately, he did the entire thing in shell, and he's passing around
SQL scripts, applying them to the database without any validation, and 
he's hard-coded assumptions about how directories are laid out and where 
the script has permissions to write.


Needless to say, when you get someone reading stuff from config files with 
*no* taint checking and *no* escaping or even quoting of arguments passed 
to other commands, I have to clean it up.  I even try passing my changes 
back upstream, but I'm told that the contractor has to make the changes 
(and he then picks and chooses which security changes he's going to make 
... then decides to wrap each 'rm' and dozen other commands in functions 
(so I can override what command's being called?), and I now have a shell 
script that's over 1000 lines.  (okay, that's not fair ... his version is 
only 968 lines, it only gets over 1000 when I try to add my corrections to 
it, and it's only 702 lines when you strip out comments and blank lines)


Now, much of it's just plain bad programming -- I mean, would you test to 
see if variables were set BEFORE loading the config file?   Would you run 
through a series of functions where each one required the other one to 
complete without actually testing to see if any of them actually worked?


(and well, one of those functions was the one that removed a tarball that 
took an hour to generate at the server, and the next one report back the 
'success' to the server, so I couldn't get the server to run it again 
without getting someone to correct things manually)


... I probably wouldn't be so hot on the topic, if it hadn't occupied the 
better part of the last month of my life, and all of this last week. 
(well, it seems that scp'ing a file for the subscription manager to 
service to process, and create a tarball response with the contents for 
your database doesn't work too well when the service isn't actually 
running ... but the way it's written you have *no* idea what the status of 
the server is).


...

sorry, I just needed to vent.

Anyway, part of what makes a good programmer is knowing the correct tools 
to use.  (and unfortunately, by definition, any newbie isn't going to have 
enough languages in their toolbox to be able to make a good selection). 
Yes, we always have to deal with determining the 'best' language based on 
what we know, who's going to maintain it, etc, so we sometimes have to go 
with sub-optimal choices.


But much of it's trying to identify what's going to go wrong with what we 
build, and trying to make sure that it doesn't break in spectacularly bad 
ways.[1]  I guess most people don't have the men with guns show up and 
take your servers for forensic analysis when some types of things go 
wrong, which makes me a little more paranoid in my error handling.


But if you put it out there on the internet, someone, sooner or later will 
attempt to abuse it.  It could be link spam on blogs, or usurping a guest 
book program to send spam, or even people claiming that compression 
artifacts in your data are UFOs[2], resulting in DDoS of your servers.
The bad ones are where they find a way to modify your database, add 
something to your filesystem, or give them a shell on your system.



-Joe

[1] http://xkcd.com/327/
[2] http://www.google.com/search?q=disclosure+nasa+sun+2010

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Aaron Rubinstein]

On 3/24/2010 4:47 PM, Kyle Banerjee wrote:


Just so I can use some of my favorite technical jargon, you need to find a
"reference implementation." That's a fancy way of saying, find the simplest
example you can. Then just copy and tweak the code until you grok
it. There's an infinite amount to learn, so just take on things one at a
time.


This is some of the best advice.  Reading and adapting good code has 
been my favorite way to learn.  There was a discussion a couple years 
back on a code4lib code repository of some kind[1].  I'd love to 
resurrect this idea.  A private pastebin[2] might be a decent option.  I 
also know that a number of us use GitHub[3], which allows for collecting 
syntax highlighted code snippets and has some nifty social networking 
features that let you follow other coders and projects.  GitHub is 
certainly not a solution for a code4lib repository but is another way to 
share code and learn from each other.


I'm happy to help in any way to push this forward.

Aaron


[1] 
https://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0803&L=CODE4LIB&D=0&X=09B7A8434FAC4C7567&P=163887


[2] http://pastebin.com/help

[3] http://github.com

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Ross Singer]

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Aaron Rubinstein
 wrote:

> This is some of the best advice.  Reading and adapting good code has been my
> favorite way to learn.  There was a discussion a couple years back on a
> code4lib code repository of some kind[1].  I'd love to resurrect this idea.
>  A private pastebin[2] might be a decent option.  I also know that a number
> of us use GitHub[3], which allows for collecting syntax highlighted code
> snippets and has some nifty social networking features that let you follow
> other coders and projects.  GitHub is certainly not a solution for a
> code4lib repository but is another way to share code and learn from each
> other.
>
I disagreed with this back in the day, and I still disagree with
running our own code repository.  There are too many good code hosting
solutions out there for this to be justifiable.  We used to run an SVN
repo at code4lib.org, but we never bothered rebuilding it after our
server got hacked.

Actually I think GitHub/Google Code and their ilk are a much better
solution -- especially for pastebins/gists/etc.  What would be useful,
though, is an aggregation of the Code4lib's community spread across
these sites, sort of what like the Planet does for blog postings, etc.
or what Google Buzz does for the people I follow (i.e. I see their
gists).

I'd buy in to that (and help support it), but I'm not sure how one
would go about it.

-Ross.

[CODE4LIB] Job Posting: Web Environment Manager, VCU Libraries

[Jimmy Ghaphery]

Web Environment Manager. Virginia Commonwealth University Libraries 
seeks faculty candidates for the position of Web Environment Manager, 
responsible for delivering an exemplary online library presence to the 
VCU community. Position reports to the Head of Library Information 
Systems. ALA-accredited graduate degree or advanced degree in computing 
or information sciences required. Salary commensurate with experience, 
not less than $55,000. Review of applications will begin April 30, 2010 
and will continue until the position is filled. Preferred 
qualifications, application procedures and other information are 
available in the complete position description at 
http://www.library.vcu.edu/admin/WebEnviroMan.html


VCU is Virginia’s largest university and one of the nation’s leading 
research institutions. It is located in historic and dynamic Richmond, 
Virginia, convenient to the beauty of the Blue Ridge Mountains, the 
recreation destinations of the Atlantic Ocean and the Chesapeake Bay, 
and the cultural resources of Washington, D.C. Virginia Commonwealth 
University is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Women, 
minorities, and persons with disabilities are encouraged to apply.


--
Jimmy Ghaphery
Head, Library Information Systems
VCU Libraries
http://www.library.vcu.edu
--

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Mike Taylor]

Newbie programmers (and established ones still looking to improve)
might be interested in this blog article that I wrote a few days ago
about some of the best programmers I've had the privilege of working
with:

http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/the-hacker-the-architect-and-the-superhero-three-completely-different-ways-to-be-an-excellent-programmer/
Enjoy!


On 25 March 2010 16:47, Ross Singer  wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Aaron Rubinstein
>  wrote:
>
>> This is some of the best advice.  Reading and adapting good code has been my
>> favorite way to learn.  There was a discussion a couple years back on a
>> code4lib code repository of some kind[1].  I'd love to resurrect this idea.
>>  A private pastebin[2] might be a decent option.  I also know that a number
>> of us use GitHub[3], which allows for collecting syntax highlighted code
>> snippets and has some nifty social networking features that let you follow
>> other coders and projects.  GitHub is certainly not a solution for a
>> code4lib repository but is another way to share code and learn from each
>> other.
>>
> I disagreed with this back in the day, and I still disagree with
> running our own code repository.  There are too many good code hosting
> solutions out there for this to be justifiable.  We used to run an SVN
> repo at code4lib.org, but we never bothered rebuilding it after our
> server got hacked.
>
> Actually I think GitHub/Google Code and their ilk are a much better
> solution -- especially for pastebins/gists/etc.  What would be useful,
> though, is an aggregation of the Code4lib's community spread across
> these sites, sort of what like the Planet does for blog postings, etc.
> or what Google Buzz does for the people I follow (i.e. I see their
> gists).
>
> I'd buy in to that (and help support it), but I'm not sure how one
> would go about it.
>
> -Ross.
>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Aaron Rubinstein]

On 3/25/2010 12:47 PM, Ross Singer wrote:


I disagreed with this back in the day, and I still disagree with
running our own code repository.  There are too many good code hosting
solutions out there for this to be justifiable.  We used to run an SVN
repo at code4lib.org, but we never bothered rebuilding it after our
server got hacked.

Actually I think GitHub/Google Code and their ilk are a much better
solution -- especially for pastebins/gists/etc.  What would be useful,
though, is an aggregation of the Code4lib's community spread across
these sites, sort of what like the Planet does for blog postings, etc.
or what Google Buzz does for the people I follow (i.e. I see their
gists).

I'd buy in to that (and help support it), but I'm not sure how one
would go about it.

-Ross.


I think the old discussion was looking more for a way to host code 
snippets as opposed to version controlled projects, which I agree that 
GitHub and the like already do nicely.  Would we really need more than a 
code4lib.pastebin.com?  That being said, a code planet would be really 
cool.  I know that GitHub and BitBucket publish ATOM feeds of a user's 
activity but I'm not so sure about other code hosting sites.


Anyways, just a thought...

Aaron

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Walker, David]

Google code has project feeds in Atom, too.

--Dave

==
David Walker
Library Web Services Manager
California State University
http://xerxes.calstate.edu

From: Code for Libraries [code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Aaron 
Rubinstein [arubi...@library.umass.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:21 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

On 3/25/2010 12:47 PM, Ross Singer wrote:

> I disagreed with this back in the day, and I still disagree with
> running our own code repository.  There are too many good code hosting
> solutions out there for this to be justifiable.  We used to run an SVN
> repo at code4lib.org, but we never bothered rebuilding it after our
> server got hacked.
>
> Actually I think GitHub/Google Code and their ilk are a much better
> solution -- especially for pastebins/gists/etc.  What would be useful,
> though, is an aggregation of the Code4lib's community spread across
> these sites, sort of what like the Planet does for blog postings, etc.
> or what Google Buzz does for the people I follow (i.e. I see their
> gists).
>
> I'd buy in to that (and help support it), but I'm not sure how one
> would go about it.
>
> -Ross.

I think the old discussion was looking more for a way to host code
snippets as opposed to version controlled projects, which I agree that
GitHub and the like already do nicely.  Would we really need more than a
code4lib.pastebin.com?  That being said, a code planet would be really
cool.  I know that GitHub and BitBucket publish ATOM feeds of a user's
activity but I'm not so sure about other code hosting sites.

Anyways, just a thought...

Aaron

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Thomas Bennett]

What is normally labeled duct tape is usually a single layer of cheese cloth 
with some type of vinyl or plastic on one side and adhesive on the other 
basically.  Duct tape that will pass state inspection, at least where I live, 
is normally sold as a thin piece of aluminum with adhesive and a slick paper 
covering the adhesive to be pulled off when used.

Thomas

I was in construction for 15 years before I went back to school.

 
On Thursday 25 March 2010 12:11:35 you wrote:
> > Also...it's pretty good for plugging leaks in ducts.
> 
> Actually, true story:
> 
> I was in the hardware store, poking around the tape section, with a roll of
>  your typical silver duct tape in my hand, obviously browsing.  An employee
>  came up to me asking what I was looking for, and for what purpose.
> 
> I told him I was actually going to be taping metal ducts, to which he
>  pointed at the duct tape in my hand and replied "oh, then that's not what
>  you want, this is what you want", and handed me some strange plastic stuff
>  I'd never seen before.
> 
> So, apparently duct tape isn't even good for taping ducts anymore.
> 
> MJ
> 
> >> At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
> >> Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
> >> duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
> >> it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
> >> moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
> >> moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
> >> everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
> >> need later.
> >>
> >> Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
> >> something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
> >> you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
> >> over the place.
> >>
> >> Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
> >> that will benefit no one ;-)
> >>
> >> Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
> >> -Nate
> 

-- 
==
Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett   Appalachian State University
Operations & Systems AnalystP O Box 32026
University LibraryBoone, North Carolina 28608
(828) 262 6587

Library Systems Help Desk: https://www.library.appstate.edu/help/
==

[CODE4LIB] Digital Preservation Management workshop, June 13-18 @ M.I.T in Cambridge, MA

[Lance Stuchell]

Apologies for cross-posting

 

Digital Preservation Management: Short-Term Solutions for Long-Term
Problems

Location: The Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA, USA

Dates:  June 13-18, 2010

 

We are very pleased that the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
will host the five-day Digital Preservation Management workshop June
13-18, 2010 in Cambridge MA. 

 

 Who Should Attend?

The intended audience for the workshop series is managers at
organizations of all kinds who are or will be responsible for managing
digital content over time. The workshop begins on Sunday evening with an
opening session, continues Monday -Thursday 9am - 5pm, and concludes on
Friday at noon.  Additional information about the workshop content and
logistics is available at:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/dpm/workshops/fiveday.html. 

 

Instructors and Keynote Speaker 

Nancy McGovern is the lead instructor for the workshop.  Also see brief
bios for the current instruction team at:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/dpm/workshops/instructors.html.  The Keynote
speaker for the June workshop is Patricia (Trisha) Cruse, the Director
of Preservation for the California Digital Library.

 

Application for Registration

http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/dpm/workshops/registration.html.  

Workshop participants apply and are then accepted into the workshop - a
two-step process.  The form for applying to participate in the workshop
will be available by 9am ET on Monday, April  5, 2010 and remain open
until the workshop is full (28 participants). Applicants will be
notified within 48hrs if they are accepted for the June workshop. We
have already had a very high level of interest in the workshop and
encourage early application.

 

About the Workshop

The Digital Preservation Management workshop was originally developed at
Cornell University Library by Anne R Kenney and Nancy Y McGovern and was
hosted at Cornell from 2003-2006. Since 2006, Nancy McGovern has
continued curricular development and directing the workshop from ICPSR
at the University of Michigan.  The workshop series has been developed
with funding from the National Endowment for the Humanities.  This is
the final scheduled workshop in this series funded by the NEH.  The DPM
workshop team intends to offer a five-day workshop in Spring 2011 -
location to be determined.  

 

If you have questions, please contact us at:
digital-preservat...@icpsr.umich.edu  

 

Lance Stuchell

Project Coordinator, Digital Preservation Management Workshops

 

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Simon Spero]

The proper name is actually Duck
Tape,
yet unlike Duck Typing, it makes everything it touches more reliable.
Discuss.

However,  C4L10  exposed a major gap in my meeting-tech go-bag;  I don't
have any new style mac dongles- just the DVI to VGA one.  People need to
send me one of each of the new generation of macbooks, so I can be prepared.

Simon

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Rosalyn Metz]

Simon you can purchase the dongles at the Mac store (did it for
another conference the week after code4lib).

Also thank you all for the duck tape info.  This explains why the duck
tape i used to attach the dryer vent ducts didn't work.  i shall now
go by the proper tape.

and now this conversation has completely devolved.




On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Simon Spero  wrote:
> The proper name is actually Duck
> Tape,
> yet unlike Duck Typing, it makes everything it touches more reliable.
> Discuss.
>
> However,  C4L10  exposed a major gap in my meeting-tech go-bag;  I don't
> have any new style mac dongles- just the DVI to VGA one.  People need to
> send me one of each of the new generation of macbooks, so I can be prepared.
>
> Simon
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Ethan Gruber]

I thought Duck Tape was a brand of duct tape?

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Rosalyn Metz  wrote:

> Simon you can purchase the dongles at the Mac store (did it for
> another conference the week after code4lib).
>
> Also thank you all for the duck tape info.  This explains why the duck
> tape i used to attach the dryer vent ducts didn't work.  i shall now
> go by the proper tape.
>
> and now this conversation has completely devolved.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Simon Spero  wrote:
> > The proper name is actually Duck
> > Tape<
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/magazine/the-way-we-live-now-3-02-03-on-language-why-a-duck.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
> >,
> > yet unlike Duck Typing, it makes everything it touches more reliable.
> > Discuss.
> >
> > However,  C4L10  exposed a major gap in my meeting-tech go-bag;  I don't
> > have any new style mac dongles- just the DVI to VGA one.  People need to
> > send me one of each of the new generation of macbooks, so I can be
> prepared.
> >
> > Simon
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Peter Schlumpf]

Programming languages as with many other things, are arbitrary.  They aren't 
carved into stone tablets -- they're all made up.  Some are better suited for 
certain problems than others.  If you don't like any out there, go invent your 
own.  To argue that one language is better than another is silly when at the 
end of the day, none of this stuff is real.

Programming languages can turn into mind prisons.  When you pick up a hammer 
evey problem starts looking like a nail.  Same with the MARC record format.  
That has become one huge mind prison that the library community will probably 
never quite get itself out of.

Peter Schlumpf
www.avantilibrarysystems.com


-Original Message-
>From: Joe Hourcle 
>Sent: Mar 25, 2010 11:00 AM
>To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>Subject: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)
>
>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Brian Stamper wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:51:38 -0400, Mark Tomko  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wouldn't recommend PHP to learn as a programming language, if your goal 
>>> is to have a general purpose programming language at your disposal.  PHP is 
>>> a fine language for building dynamic web pages, but it won't help you to 
>>> slice and dice a big text file or process a bunch of XML or do some other 
>>> "odd job" that you don't want to do by hand.
>>
>> To be precise, PHP can indeed do these kind of things, particularly in 
>> command line mode. I certainly don't recommend it, but if you're used to PHP 
>> for other reasons, and you already have it available to you, you can do 'odd 
>> jobs' with PHP. You can also use your teeth to open a tight bottle cap, the 
>> edge of a knife as a screwdriver, and duct tape to perform auto repairs.
>
>You say that as if duct tape is a bad thing for auto repairs.  Not all 
>duct tape repairs are candidates for "There, I fixed it!"[1].  It works 
>just fine for the occassional hose repair.
>
>-Joe
>
>[1] http://thereifixedit.com/

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Genny Engel]

Agreed -- I coded up many nice SQL injection vulnerabilities before I ever 
learned PHP.  As for Perl, anyone remember the notorious formmail.cgi from 
Matt's Script Archive?
 
For **web** programming specifically, it's critically important for newbies to 
get a grounding in security issues, regardless of the language being used.  
Also, in usability issues, accessibility issues, etc.  for anything that's 
actually going to get used by the public.  But really, that mainly applies if 
you're going to be developing a whole app complete with web-accessible front 
end.
 
If your interests aren't particularly in web development, you have a whole 
other set of potential issues to learn about, and I'm probably ignorant of most 
of them.  
 
My first language was C, which according to langpop.com [1] is still the most 
popular language around!  If you don't want to get bogged down in the web 
security issues, etc., then you might lean toward learning a general-purpose 
language like C or Java, rather than one designed for a specific purpose as PHP 
is for web development.
  
 
[1] http://www.langpop.com/
 

>>> yitzchak.schaf...@gmx.com 03/25/10 07:56AM >>>
On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:
> I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
> recommend PHP to beginners.
>
> Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
> incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
> to clean up after them.

Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning 
its vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid 
security holes in web code in general.

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Ethan Gruber]

If one's interests were digital library data curation and migration, the
most useful things to know would be XSLT, bash scripting, Perl, and
knowledge of regular expressions.  I've done a lot of migration with bash
scripting, regular expressions, and XSLT alone, without the need for Perl,
but Perl or SAX would be useful in migrating non-XML or invalid XML/SGML.  I
used simple, iterative scripts to migrate thousands of TEI files from TEI
Lite to a more consistent schema.  I've done similar things to go from a 500
page HTML thumbnail gallery of manuscripts into an EAD guide.   Roy is right
in stating there is more to programming than web pages.  A lot of dirty work
behind the scenes in libraries is done without the sexiness of PHP or Ruby
on Rails applications.

Ethan

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Genny Engel wrote:

> Agreed -- I coded up many nice SQL injection vulnerabilities before I ever
> learned PHP.  As for Perl, anyone remember the notorious formmail.cgi from
> Matt's Script Archive?
>
> For **web** programming specifically, it's critically important for newbies
> to get a grounding in security issues, regardless of the language being
> used.  Also, in usability issues, accessibility issues, etc.  for
> anything that's actually going to get used by the public.  But really, that
> mainly applies if you're going to be developing a whole app complete with
> web-accessible front end.
>
> If your interests aren't particularly in web development, you have a whole
> other set of potential issues to learn about, and I'm probably ignorant of
> most of them.
>
> My first language was C, which according to langpop.com [1] is still the
> most popular language around!  If you don't want to get bogged down in the
> web security issues, etc., then you might lean toward learning a
> general-purpose language like C or Java, rather than one designed for a
> specific purpose as PHP is for web development.
>
>
> [1] http://www.langpop.com/
>
>
> >>> yitzchak.schaf...@gmx.com 03/25/10 07:56AM >>>
> On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:
> > I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
> > recommend PHP to beginners.
> >
> > Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
> > incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
> > to clean up after them.
>
> Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning
> its vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid
> security holes in web code in general.
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Tim Shearer]

Warning: regular expressions can become addictive.  And, for some of us 
batch manipulation of large text sets can provide a whole lot of 
satisfaction.  Finally, I never would have put the strings "PHP" and 
"sexiness" in a sentence together (though I guess I just did).


-t

On 3/25/10 4:46 PM, Ethan Gruber wrote:

If one's interests were digital library data curation and migration, the
most useful things to know would be XSLT, bash scripting, Perl, and
knowledge of regular expressions.  I've done a lot of migration with bash
scripting, regular expressions, and XSLT alone, without the need for Perl,
but Perl or SAX would be useful in migrating non-XML or invalid XML/SGML.  I
used simple, iterative scripts to migrate thousands of TEI files from TEI
Lite to a more consistent schema.  I've done similar things to go from a 500
page HTML thumbnail gallery of manuscripts into an EAD guide.   Roy is right
in stating there is more to programming than web pages.  A lot of dirty work
behind the scenes in libraries is done without the sexiness of PHP or Ruby
on Rails applications.

Ethan

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Genny Engelwrote:


Agreed -- I coded up many nice SQL injection vulnerabilities before I ever
learned PHP.  As for Perl, anyone remember the notorious formmail.cgi from
Matt's Script Archive?

For **web** programming specifically, it's critically important for newbies
to get a grounding in security issues, regardless of the language being
used.  Also, in usability issues, accessibility issues, etc.  for
anything that's actually going to get used by the public.  But really, that
mainly applies if you're going to be developing a whole app complete with
web-accessible front end.

If your interests aren't particularly in web development, you have a whole
other set of potential issues to learn about, and I'm probably ignorant of
most of them.

My first language was C, which according to langpop.com [1] is still the
most popular language around!  If you don't want to get bogged down in the
web security issues, etc., then you might lean toward learning a
general-purpose language like C or Java, rather than one designed for a
specific purpose as PHP is for web development.


[1] http://www.langpop.com/



yitzchak.schaf...@gmx.com 03/25/10 07:56AM>>>

On 3/24/2010 17:43, Joe Hourcle wrote:

I know there's a lot of stuff written in it, but *please* don't
recommend PHP to beginners.

Yes, you can get a lot of stuff done with it, but I've had way too many
incidents where newbie coders didn't check their inputs, and we've had
to clean up after them.


Another way of looking at this: part of learning a language is learning
its vulnerabilities and how to deal with them.  And how to avoid
security holes in web code in general.

[CODE4LIB] Job posting: Digital Library Applications Programmer

[Delphine Khanna]

Hi,

We have a “Digital Library Applications Programmer” position opening at 
the University of Pennsylvania Library. To be a bit more specific than 
the official announcement:


* We have built a Solr-based system (the “DLA”) that we use to deliver 
various digital collections and catalogs. For instance our video catalog:

http://dla.library.upenn.edu/dla/vcat
Image collections:
http://dla.library.upenn.edu/dla/furness
Or book/manuscript facsimiles:
http://dla.library.upenn.edu/dla/medren

* While continuing to develop the DLA, we are now turning our attention 
to strengthening our underlying repository of digital objects and its 
connections to the DLA. In that realm, we are particularly interested in 
the CDL Pairtree/Merritt micro-services approach. The person hired will 
be the main programmer for that part of the project, so he/she will have 
a real opportunity to help shape the project design and influence our 
architecture.


This is a one-year position with the possibility of extension.

Please apply through the Penn HR web site:
http://www.hr.upenn.edu/Jobs/
The reference number for this position is 100328159.

Thanks,
Delphine Khanna

--
Delphine Khanna, Digital Projects Librarian
University of Pennsylvania Library (http://www.library.upenn.edu)
ITaDD Department, Room 335W, 3420 Walnut Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104
Tel:215.573.9086 | Fax:215.898.0559 | Email:delph...@pobox.upenn.edu



Digital Library Applications Programmer_2010_postedversion.doc
Description: MS-Word document

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Ranti Junus]

Speaking of Regular Expression, O'Reilly Media has an ebook deal of
the day for the Regular Expression Cookbook ($9.99, use code DDREC)
[1]

OK. I don't know if it's OK to post the info like above, but they
advertise that on their Facebook page [2] and I can't resist sharing
the saving.


ranti.

[1] http://oreil.ly/bgvSuD
[2] http://www.facebook.com/OReilly?v=wall


On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Tim Shearer  wrote:
> Warning: regular expressions can become addictive.  And, for some of us
> batch manipulation of large text sets can provide a whole lot of
> satisfaction.  Finally, I never would have put the strings "PHP" and
> "sexiness" in a sentence together (though I guess I just did).
>
> -t


-- 
Bulk mail.  Postage paid.

[CODE4LIB] Duct tape (was: PHP bashing (was: newbie))

[Ken Irwin]

I love how we changed the name of this thread to "PHP bashing" just in time for 
it to become a thread about duct tape.

And y'all are forgetting the best automotive use for duct tape: as a temporary 
scaffolding for smearing Bondo onto. 
I just did this, in fact, and have the pink residue on my fingernails to prove 
it. 

And yes, since you ask: I use PHP all the time... ;) 
Though not for odd jobs -- that's what Perl is for.

Ken

From: Code for Libraries [code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of MJ Suhonos 
[...@suhonos.ca]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:11 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

> Also...it's pretty good for plugging leaks in ducts.

Actually, true story:

I was in the hardware store, poking around the tape section, with a roll of 
your typical silver duct tape in my hand, obviously browsing.  An employee came 
up to me asking what I was looking for, and for what purpose.

I told him I was actually going to be taping metal ducts, to which he pointed 
at the duct tape in my hand and replied "oh, then that's not what you want, 
this is what you want", and handed me some strange plastic stuff I'd never seen 
before.

So, apparently duct tape isn't even good for taping ducts anymore.

MJ

>> At the risk of taking an off-topic conversation even further into
>> Peanut Heaven, automotive hose repair is actually one of the things
>> duct tape is least well-suited to. The adhesive doesn't bond when wet,
>> it's not strong enough to hold much pressure or vacuum (especially
>> moderate continuous pressure), and it fails very quickly at even
>> moderately high temperatures. And it tends to leave goo all over
>> everything, thus adding headaches to the proper repair you'll still
>> need later.
>>
>> Duct tape is OK for keeping a wire bundle out of your fan or
>> something, but if you try to fix a leak in your radiator hose with it,
>> you'll still be stranded and also have gooey duct tape adhesive all
>> over the place.
>>
>> Extending these points to the ongoing language debate is an exercise
>> that will benefit no one ;-)
>>
>> Cheers (and just get that hose replaced ;-)
>> -Nate

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP bashing (was: newbie)

[Genny Engel]

I think it's perfectly sensible to declare that there is one best language.  
Here is the current spec for it:
 
http://lolcode.com/specs/1.2
 
The only place where I seriously take issue with this language is in their 
misspelling of "kthxbai," but perhaps that is an internal joke sort of like 
Apache's mod_speling.


>>> Peter Schlumpf  03/25/10 12:17PM >>>
Programming languages as with many other things, are arbitrary.  They aren't 
carved into stone tablets -- they're all made up.  Some are better suited for 
certain problems than others.  If you don't like any out there, go invent your 
own.  To argue that one language is better than another is silly when at the 
end of the day, none of this stuff is real.

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Tim Spalding]

> Finally, I never would have put the strings "PHP" and "sexiness" in a 
> sentence together (though I guess I just did).

A simple Google search shows how very wrong you are:

"sexy php" - 56,100,000 results
"sexy asp" - 8,380,000
"sexy java" - 6,360,000
"sexy ruby" - 2,840,000
"sexy perl" - 532,000
"sexy C++" - 488,000
"sexy smalltalk" - 113,000
"sexy fortran" - 107,000
"sexy COBOL" - 58,100

There are also very high results for "sexy logo." Perhaps, since I was
in fourth grade, someone's figured out something interesting to do
with that stupid turtle!

Tim

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Andrew Hankinson]

Just out of curiosity I tried them in quotes:

"sexy ruby" - 72,200
"sexy python" - 37,900
"sexy php" - 25,100
"sexy java" - 16,100
"sexy asp" - 14,800
"sexy perl" - 8,080
"sexy C++" - 177
"sexy FORTRAN" - 67
"sexy COBOL" - 8

I tried "sexy lisp" but the results were skewed by speech impediment fetishes. 
Which I'd say is even less strange than 8 people thinking you can write sexy 
COBOL.

On 2010-03-25, at 10:20 PM, Tim Spalding wrote:

>> Finally, I never would have put the strings "PHP" and "sexiness" in a 
>> sentence together (though I guess I just did).
> 
> A simple Google search shows how very wrong you are:
> 
> "sexy php" - 56,100,000 results
> "sexy asp" - 8,380,000
> "sexy java" - 6,360,000
> "sexy ruby" - 2,840,000
> "sexy perl" - 532,000
> "sexy C++" - 488,000
> "sexy smalltalk" - 113,000
> "sexy fortran" - 107,000
> "sexy COBOL" - 58,100
> 
> There are also very high results for "sexy logo." Perhaps, since I was
> in fourth grade, someone's figured out something interesting to do
> with that stupid turtle!
> 
> Tim

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Tim Spalding]

"Ruby" may be sexy but "sexy ruby on rails" gets only four hits. As
for "sexy python," well, no comment.

T

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Andrew Hankinson
 wrote:
> Just out of curiosity I tried them in quotes:
>
> "sexy ruby" - 72,200
> "sexy python" - 37,900
> "sexy php" - 25,100
> "sexy java" - 16,100
> "sexy asp" - 14,800
> "sexy perl" - 8,080
> "sexy C++" - 177
> "sexy FORTRAN" - 67
> "sexy COBOL" - 8
>
> I tried "sexy lisp" but the results were skewed by speech impediment 
> fetishes. Which I'd say is even less strange than 8 people thinking you can 
> write sexy COBOL.

Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie

[Patrick Hochstenbach]

Nothing beats "E"- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_%28programming_language%29

"sexy e" - 924,000 hits

But oh poor Erlang

"sexy erlang" - 2 hits (both of them telling me: erlang isn't sexy)


P@

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Tim Spalding
Sent: Fri 26-3-2010 4:21
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] newbie
 
"Ruby" may be sexy but "sexy ruby on rails" gets only four hits. As
for "sexy python," well, no comment.

T

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Andrew Hankinson
 wrote:
> Just out of curiosity I tried them in quotes:
>
> "sexy ruby" - 72,200
> "sexy python" - 37,900
> "sexy php" - 25,100
> "sexy java" - 16,100
> "sexy asp" - 14,800
> "sexy perl" - 8,080
> "sexy C++" - 177
> "sexy FORTRAN" - 67
> "sexy COBOL" - 8
>
> I tried "sexy lisp" but the results were skewed by speech impediment 
> fetishes. Which I'd say is even less strange than 8 people thinking you can 
> write sexy COBOL.