Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Martin Rosse]

Regarding approaches to cleaning up the Wiki content--how about an approach
similar to the Spark cwiki:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SPARK/Wiki+Homepage

My take is that the Hadoop product docs on hadoop.apache.org generally
target (or should target) the audiences described in 1-4 below, while the
Wiki is (should be) primarily for audience #5 or "Hadoop staff"--internal
Hadoop development, product management, QA, etc.

Definitely current Wiki content such as "Overview of Hadoop" and the link
to "Single Node Hadoop Cluster" installation is redundant, unnecessary doc
maintenance, and annoying to come across as a user because one must assess
its value relative to the same/similar content in the product doc on
hadoop.apache.org.

BTW, I did some random testing of ASF project wikis hosted on
cwiki.apache.org, and the pages for those sites definitely load much, much
faster than ASF wiki pages using MoinMoin.

Best,
Martin

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Ray Chiang  wrote:

> Good to know.  It's certainly easier to set up an alternate location in
> any case and then do a wholesale migration.  It saves from having that
> "under construction" look before it's complete.
>
> I'll get on the appropriate infra@ list and ask about recommendations.
>
> -Ray
>
>
> On 7/26/16 10:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:
>
>> Hi Ray, if you're going to do a wiki cleanup, fair warning that I filed
>> this INFRA JIRA about the wiki being terribly slow, and they closed it as
>> WONTFIX:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12283
>>
>> So if you'd actually like to undertake a wiki cleanup, we should also
>> consider migrating the content to a wiki that isn't terribly slow.
>>
>> I think cwiki.apache.org is better, but maybe we should ask infra what
>> the
>> preferred option is here. They might be able to help with a content
>> migration too.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Ray Chiang  wrote:
>>
>> Coming in late to an old thread.
>>>
>>> I was looking around at the Hadoop documentation (hadoop.apache.org and
>>> wiki.apache.org/hadoop) and I'd sum up the current state of the
>>> documentation as follows:
>>>
>>> 1. hadoop.apache.org is pretty clearly full of technical information.
>>> My only minor nit here is that the wiki pointer and the Git pointer
>>> at the top is really tiny.
>>> 2. wiki.apache.org is simultaneously targeted to at least four audiences
>>>  1. Industry Users (broadest sense of Big Data Industry)
>>>  2. Industry Developers (mostly those adding a layer like Hive does
>>> to MapReduce)
>>>  3. Hadoop Users (those who just want to set up a small cluster)
>>>  4. Hadoop Developers (e.g. using MapReduce APIs)
>>>  5. Hadoop Internal Developers (eventual contributors)
>>>
>>> I'd like to initiate some cleanup of the wiki, but before I even start,
>>> I'd like to see if anyone has constructive suggestions or other
>>> approaches
>>> that would make this transition smoother.
>>>
>>> 1. Some sections, like Industry Users and Industry Developers is
>>> growing so fast, I'm not sure whether it's worth maintaining in any
>>> meaningful format. I'd be inclined to make suggestions on where to
>>> start and let Google take them forward from there.
>>> 2. Organize the developer section based on the pieces a new reader
>>> wants to learn (new to everything, new to Hadoop, all the tools for
>>> Hadoop development, "just check out code and go", etc).
>>> 3. Organize the Users section a bit more.  The "Setting up a Hadoop
>>> Cluster" is grouped well, but I'd perhaps rearrange the ordering a
>>> bit.
>>>
>>> -Ray
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/16 3:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:
>>>
>>> I think we should try to keep ownership over the #hadoop channel (do we
 have ownership?) but make it clear on the website and in the channel
 greeting that this is for user-on-user discussion, and it's not actively
 monitored by developers.

 On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Akira AJISAKA <
 ajisa...@oss.nttdata.co.jp>
 wrote:

 I'm not using the IRC channel (#hadoop at irc.freenode.net.)

> I'm using slack (hadoopdev.slack.com) instead.
>
> -Akira
>
>
> On 7/14/16 14:48, Ravi Prakash wrote:
>
> I've never gone there either. +1 for retiring.
>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34 PM, J. Rottinghuis <
>> jrottingh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?
>>
>> Joep
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with
>>>
>>> retiring it if no committers are around.

 On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
 committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more
 often?
 If that starts to gain traction, we could 

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Ray Chiang]

Good to know.  It's certainly easier to set up an alternate location in 
any case and then do a wholesale migration.  It saves from having that 
"under construction" look before it's complete.


I'll get on the appropriate infra@ list and ask about recommendations.

-Ray


On 7/26/16 10:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:

Hi Ray, if you're going to do a wiki cleanup, fair warning that I filed
this INFRA JIRA about the wiki being terribly slow, and they closed it as
WONTFIX:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12283

So if you'd actually like to undertake a wiki cleanup, we should also
consider migrating the content to a wiki that isn't terribly slow.

I think cwiki.apache.org is better, but maybe we should ask infra what the
preferred option is here. They might be able to help with a content
migration too.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Ray Chiang  wrote:


Coming in late to an old thread.

I was looking around at the Hadoop documentation (hadoop.apache.org and
wiki.apache.org/hadoop) and I'd sum up the current state of the
documentation as follows:

1. hadoop.apache.org is pretty clearly full of technical information.
My only minor nit here is that the wiki pointer and the Git pointer
at the top is really tiny.
2. wiki.apache.org is simultaneously targeted to at least four audiences
 1. Industry Users (broadest sense of Big Data Industry)
 2. Industry Developers (mostly those adding a layer like Hive does
to MapReduce)
 3. Hadoop Users (those who just want to set up a small cluster)
 4. Hadoop Developers (e.g. using MapReduce APIs)
 5. Hadoop Internal Developers (eventual contributors)

I'd like to initiate some cleanup of the wiki, but before I even start,
I'd like to see if anyone has constructive suggestions or other approaches
that would make this transition smoother.

1. Some sections, like Industry Users and Industry Developers is
growing so fast, I'm not sure whether it's worth maintaining in any
meaningful format. I'd be inclined to make suggestions on where to
start and let Google take them forward from there.
2. Organize the developer section based on the pieces a new reader
wants to learn (new to everything, new to Hadoop, all the tools for
Hadoop development, "just check out code and go", etc).
3. Organize the Users section a bit more.  The "Setting up a Hadoop
Cluster" is grouped well, but I'd perhaps rearrange the ordering a bit.

-Ray


On 7/14/16 3:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:


I think we should try to keep ownership over the #hadoop channel (do we
have ownership?) but make it clear on the website and in the channel
greeting that this is for user-on-user discussion, and it's not actively
monitored by developers.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Akira AJISAKA <
ajisa...@oss.nttdata.co.jp>
wrote:

I'm not using the IRC channel (#hadoop at irc.freenode.net.)

I'm using slack (hadoopdev.slack.com) instead.

-Akira


On 7/14/16 14:48, Ravi Prakash wrote:

I've never gone there either. +1 for retiring.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34 PM, J. Rottinghuis <
jrottingh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?


Joep

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee  wrote:

I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with


retiring it if no committers are around.

On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more
often?
If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for

users

as well.

Sangjin

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla 

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Andrew Wang]

Hi Ray, if you're going to do a wiki cleanup, fair warning that I filed
this INFRA JIRA about the wiki being terribly slow, and they closed it as
WONTFIX:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12283

So if you'd actually like to undertake a wiki cleanup, we should also
consider migrating the content to a wiki that isn't terribly slow.

I think cwiki.apache.org is better, but maybe we should ask infra what the
preferred option is here. They might be able to help with a content
migration too.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Ray Chiang  wrote:

> Coming in late to an old thread.
>
> I was looking around at the Hadoop documentation (hadoop.apache.org and
> wiki.apache.org/hadoop) and I'd sum up the current state of the
> documentation as follows:
>
> 1. hadoop.apache.org is pretty clearly full of technical information.
> My only minor nit here is that the wiki pointer and the Git pointer
>at the top is really tiny.
> 2. wiki.apache.org is simultaneously targeted to at least four audiences
> 1. Industry Users (broadest sense of Big Data Industry)
> 2. Industry Developers (mostly those adding a layer like Hive does
>to MapReduce)
> 3. Hadoop Users (those who just want to set up a small cluster)
> 4. Hadoop Developers (e.g. using MapReduce APIs)
> 5. Hadoop Internal Developers (eventual contributors)
>
> I'd like to initiate some cleanup of the wiki, but before I even start,
> I'd like to see if anyone has constructive suggestions or other approaches
> that would make this transition smoother.
>
> 1. Some sections, like Industry Users and Industry Developers is
>growing so fast, I'm not sure whether it's worth maintaining in any
>meaningful format. I'd be inclined to make suggestions on where to
>start and let Google take them forward from there.
> 2. Organize the developer section based on the pieces a new reader
>wants to learn (new to everything, new to Hadoop, all the tools for
>Hadoop development, "just check out code and go", etc).
> 3. Organize the Users section a bit more.  The "Setting up a Hadoop
>Cluster" is grouped well, but I'd perhaps rearrange the ordering a bit.
>
> -Ray
>
>
> On 7/14/16 3:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:
>
>> I think we should try to keep ownership over the #hadoop channel (do we
>> have ownership?) but make it clear on the website and in the channel
>> greeting that this is for user-on-user discussion, and it's not actively
>> monitored by developers.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Akira AJISAKA <
>> ajisa...@oss.nttdata.co.jp>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not using the IRC channel (#hadoop at irc.freenode.net.)
>>> I'm using slack (hadoopdev.slack.com) instead.
>>>
>>> -Akira
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/14/16 14:48, Ravi Prakash wrote:
>>>
>>> I've never gone there either. +1 for retiring.

 On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34 PM, J. Rottinghuis <
 jrottingh...@gmail.com>
 wrote:

 Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?

> Joep
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee  wrote:
>
> I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with
>
>> retiring it if no committers are around.
>>
>> On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
>> committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more
>> often?
>> If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for
>>
>> users
>
> as well.
>>
>> Sangjin
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla > >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one
>> of
>> the
>>
>> attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC
>>>
>>> channel
>>
>> are never answered.
>>>
>>> Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know
>>>
>>> anyone
>>
>> who is actively monitoring it.
>>>
>>> I am emailing to check:
>>>
>>> 1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and
>>> answering
>>> questions?
>>> 2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Karthik
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: common-dev-unsubscr...@hadoop.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: common-dev-h...@hadoop.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Ray Chiang]

Coming in late to an old thread.

I was looking around at the Hadoop documentation (hadoop.apache.org and 
wiki.apache.org/hadoop) and I'd sum up the current state of the 
documentation as follows:


1. hadoop.apache.org is pretty clearly full of technical information. 
   My only minor nit here is that the wiki pointer and the Git pointer

   at the top is really tiny.
2. wiki.apache.org is simultaneously targeted to at least four audiences
1. Industry Users (broadest sense of Big Data Industry)
2. Industry Developers (mostly those adding a layer like Hive does
   to MapReduce)
3. Hadoop Users (those who just want to set up a small cluster)
4. Hadoop Developers (e.g. using MapReduce APIs)
5. Hadoop Internal Developers (eventual contributors)

I'd like to initiate some cleanup of the wiki, but before I even start, 
I'd like to see if anyone has constructive suggestions or other 
approaches that would make this transition smoother.


1. Some sections, like Industry Users and Industry Developers is
   growing so fast, I'm not sure whether it's worth maintaining in any
   meaningful format. I'd be inclined to make suggestions on where to
   start and let Google take them forward from there.
2. Organize the developer section based on the pieces a new reader
   wants to learn (new to everything, new to Hadoop, all the tools for
   Hadoop development, "just check out code and go", etc).
3. Organize the Users section a bit more.  The "Setting up a Hadoop
   Cluster" is grouped well, but I'd perhaps rearrange the ordering a bit.

-Ray

On 7/14/16 3:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:

I think we should try to keep ownership over the #hadoop channel (do we
have ownership?) but make it clear on the website and in the channel
greeting that this is for user-on-user discussion, and it's not actively
monitored by developers.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Akira AJISAKA 
wrote:


I'm not using the IRC channel (#hadoop at irc.freenode.net.)
I'm using slack (hadoopdev.slack.com) instead.

-Akira


On 7/14/16 14:48, Ravi Prakash wrote:


I've never gone there either. +1 for retiring.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34 PM, J. Rottinghuis 
wrote:

Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?

Joep

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee  wrote:

I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with

retiring it if no committers are around.

On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more
often?
If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for


users


as well.

Sangjin

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla 
wrote:

Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one of
the


attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC


channel


are never answered.

Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know


anyone


who is actively monitoring it.

I am emailing to check:

1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and answering
questions?
2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?

Thanks
Karthik



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: common-dev-unsubscr...@hadoop.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: common-dev-h...@hadoop.apache.org

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Andrew Wang]

I think we should try to keep ownership over the #hadoop channel (do we
have ownership?) but make it clear on the website and in the channel
greeting that this is for user-on-user discussion, and it's not actively
monitored by developers.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Akira AJISAKA 
wrote:

> I'm not using the IRC channel (#hadoop at irc.freenode.net.)
> I'm using slack (hadoopdev.slack.com) instead.
>
> -Akira
>
>
> On 7/14/16 14:48, Ravi Prakash wrote:
>
>> I've never gone there either. +1 for retiring.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34 PM, J. Rottinghuis 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?
>>>
>>> Joep
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee  wrote:
>>>
>>> I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with
 retiring it if no committers are around.

 On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
 committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more
 often?
 If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for

>>> users
>>>
 as well.

 Sangjin

 On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla 
 wrote:

 Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one of
>
 the

> attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC
>
 channel

> are never answered.
>
> Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know
>
 anyone

> who is actively monitoring it.
>
> I am emailing to check:
>
>1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and answering
>questions?
>2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?
>
> Thanks
> Karthik
>
>

>>>
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: common-dev-unsubscr...@hadoop.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: common-dev-h...@hadoop.apache.org
>
>

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Ravi Prakash]

I've never gone there either. +1 for retiring.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34 PM, J. Rottinghuis 
wrote:

> Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?
>
> Joep
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee  wrote:
>
> > I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with
> > retiring it if no committers are around.
> >
> > On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
> > committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more often?
> > If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for
> users
> > as well.
> >
> > Sangjin
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one of
> > the
> > > attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC
> > channel
> > > are never answered.
> > >
> > > Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know
> > anyone
> > > who is actively monitoring it.
> > >
> > > I am emailing to check:
> > >
> > >1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and answering
> > >questions?
> > >2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Karthik
> > >
> >
>

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[J. Rottinghuis]

Uhm, there is an IRC channel?!?

Joep

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Sangjin Lee  wrote:

> I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with
> retiring it if no committers are around.
>
> On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
> committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more often?
> If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for users
> as well.
>
> Sangjin
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla 
> wrote:
>
> > Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one of
> the
> > attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC
> channel
> > are never answered.
> >
> > Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know
> anyone
> > who is actively monitoring it.
> >
> > I am emailing to check:
> >
> >1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and answering
> >questions?
> >2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Karthik
> >
>

Re: Feedback on IRC channel

[Sangjin Lee]

I seldom check out IRC (as my experience was the same). I'm OK with
retiring it if no committers are around.

On a related note, I know Tsuyoshi set up a slack channel for the
committers. Even that one is pretty idle. :) Should we use it more often?
If that starts to gain traction, we could set up a more open room for users
as well.

Sangjin

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Karthik Kambatla 
wrote:

> Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one of the
> attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC channel
> are never answered.
>
> Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know anyone
> who is actively monitoring it.
>
> I am emailing to check:
>
>1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and answering
>questions?
>2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?
>
> Thanks
> Karthik
>

Feedback on IRC channel

[Karthik Kambatla]

Recently, Andrew Wang and I were at an academic conference where one of the
attendees (a grad student) was mentioning that his posts to the IRC channel
are never answered.

Personally, I haven't been using the IRC channel. Neither do I know anyone
who is actively monitoring it.

I am emailing to check:

   1. Are there folks actively monitoring the IRC channel and answering
   questions?
   2. If there is no one, should we consider retiring the channel?

Thanks
Karthik