Am 18.01.2007 um 08:47 schrieb Gabriel Ambuehl:
On Thursday 18 January 2007 07:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't know what it is about the guy who posted this thread, but
I really
think that he's got some sort of talent for getting people
talking. I
Well, my impression was that the
On 18 Jan 2007, at 7:41 am, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote:
On Thursday 18 January 2007 00:09, Renaissance Man wrote:
Why does no organisation (even Apple) seem to get it that the
mobile communications revolution is through VoIP via WiFi. This is
the killer app.
WiFi enabled Nokia E Series can do
On 1/18/07 2:41 AM, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At first, the geek perspective is oh man I want one of those because
it's open source, true. But tomorrow the general public's perspective
may be Oh man I want one of those because I can run CommunitasticoMoko
1.0. You may ask, what's
On 1/18/07 3:37 AM, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The NEO's not _cheap_, exactly: there was a recent survey of 1,800 recent
purchasers of cell phones, and 21--not 21 _percent_, mind you, 21,
period--paid over $400. Not many more paid as much as $350.
In our defense, those phones
On 1/18/07, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most of my phone calls are made at work and home, both of which
already have WiFi,
Then for everbody's sake use the 350$ to buy two simple WiFi
VOIP-phones, one for home, one for work and stop whining. Here for
example:
On Thursday 18 January 2007 10:01, Renaissance Man wrote:
The problem with the Nokia E Series, N80s, and Windows smartphones is
that they're either very expensive and/or they don't actually make
VoIP via WiFi easy. The only organisation that seems to get it is
Truphone. You can take their
On Thursday 18 January 2007 10:01, Renaissance Man wrote:
Truphone. You can take their software package, put it on the cheapest
supported WiFi/GSM enabled phone you can get and then you have a
phone that seamlessly swaps between WiFi and GSM with one phone number.
Just out of curiosity, did
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 01:49]:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:42 am, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
Renaissance Man writes:
Everything I've read says it doesn't have WiFi.
It doesn't. But assuming it's a success, there will surely be a successor
soon that does.
Or how about guarantee
* Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 08:44]:
On Thursday 18 January 2007 02:05, Renaissance Man wrote:
I've now read the reasons for its exclusion, but having read Sean's
marketing PDF to the carriers one can't help but wonder if OpenMoko
is just yet another victim of the carrier
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 02:08]:
Well, call me when it has WiFi. I just don't think this thing's going to get
the start it should have got.
Well, it won't get a start no matter what endusers will buy/use it or
not. The first phase is where it's critical that all the itchy
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 02:20]:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:57 am, Richard Franks wrote:
I disagree - VoIP via WiFi is an obvious evolution rather than revolutionary.
But you're looking at it from a geek's point of view instead of a typical
end-user's point of view.
On 18 Jan 2007, at 2:37 am, David Schlesinger wrote:
The NEO's not _cheap_ ...
I was talking about value-for-money cheap, not capital cost. In this
sense the Neo is cheap. I just happen to be in the market for a smart
phone, but there's nothing in my argument that precludes someone
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 03:15]:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 2:00 am, David Schlesinger wrote:
You can go out and buy a Nokia 800 or a Sony Mylo today for the price of a
NEO and do VoIP right this instant. If it's changed the world, I guess I
must not have been paying
* David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 03:42]:
On 1/17/07 6:12 PM, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 2:00 am, David Schlesinger wrote:
You can go out and buy a Nokia 800 or a Sony Mylo today for the
price of a NEO and do VoIP right this instant. If it's
* Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 03:37]:
On Jan 17, 2007, at 7:00 PM, David Schlesinger wrote:
The revolution evidently has a bunch of people who don't see that the value
of half (or ninety-five one-hundredths) of a loaf exceeds that of no loaf at
all.
I wouldn't take this very
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:17 am, Sencer wrote:
Then for everbody's sake use the 350$ to buy two simple WiFi VOIP-
phones, one for home, one for work and stop whining.
That won't make my communications easier, that just makes it more
complicated. One way or another, probably within the next few
Renaissance Man, reducing the success or the revolutionary aspect
of openmoko to the aspect of Wifi is missing the point completely
and utterly.
To suggest that that's what I'm doing is missing my point entirely.
O RLY? Let me quote what you wrote:
Neither iPhone or OpenMoko
* Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 11:26]:
On Thursday 18 January 2007 10:01, Renaissance Man wrote:
Truphone. You can take their software package, put it on the cheapest
supported WiFi/GSM enabled phone you can get and then you have a
phone that seamlessly swaps between WiFi and GSM
First. The lack of WiFi will _not_ prevent me from buying the first gen
openmoko phone.
Second. I have WiFi on my HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125) and almost never use
it.
Third. VOIP is cool and all, but I don't understand how a Mobile carrier can
make $$$ from it.
Forth. Sorry for contributing to
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Doug Shawhan schreef:
Magic fuel cells aside, I predict 802.11x will not be a big deal for
mobiles until someone comes up with beautiful, free peer-to-peer voice
app
Or, even better, a mesh voip solution. I was working at a festival last year
Yes, Bluetooth's PAN profile is intended to enable pico/mesh networking...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Koen Kooi
Sent: Thu 1/18/2007 10:41 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED
:
Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
The reason is neither of them have VoIP via WiFi.
Reality distortion field in full effect...
You still don't get it. The revolutionary aspect of such a device
would be the ability to talk to anyone mostly for free with one
device and phone
On Thursday 18 January 2007 12:23, Renaissance Man wrote:
You still don't get it. The revolutionary aspect of such a device
would be the ability to talk to anyone mostly for free with one
device and phone number, and be mobile. WiFi/VoIP is just a necessary
part of the package for
On 1/18/07 11:23 AM, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You still don't get it.
Y' know, you're right. I don't. I clearly am not intelligent enough to
appreciate the worldview-shaking impact of saving a few bucks on my cell
phone bill. I don't suppose further repetitions of this
On 1/18/07, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
P.S.: Thanks for finally realising that it is better if you drop
the debate about including wifi in the first generation device. Be
it whether the fundamental point people having been trying to make
to you, got through, or because you
On Thursday 18 January 2007 12:33, Renaissance Man wrote:
All your arguments against WiFi on the Neo seem a little moot, as
You got me all wrong. I'm not against WiFi anywhere, I just don't think VoIP
over Wifi in phones is 'the revolution'. It is good way to share data and an
awkward way to
On Thursday 18 January 2007 16:59, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
It's basically trivial. You get one number, that rings on different
numbers. It rings once on the sipphone, and once on the GSM part.
If the phone is clever, it will prefer to make the connection via sip.
Ah, I thought we were talking
* Mark McClellan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 19:32]:
First. The lack of WiFi will _not_ prevent me from buying the first gen
openmoko phone.
me too.
Second. I have WiFi on my HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125) and almost never use
it.
me too (in my case it's a Nokia9500).
Third. VOIP
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 20:27]:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 1:30 pm, Sencer wrote:
You still don't get it. The revolutionary aspect of such a device would be
the ability to talk to anyone mostly for free with one device and phone
number, and be mobile. WiFi/VoIP is
just a
You still don't get it. The revolutionary aspect of such a device
would be the ability to talk to anyone mostly for free with one
device and phone number, and be mobile. WiFi/VoIP is just a necessary
part of the package for achieving that.
Everbody gets what you are saying. It is you who does
Well, thanks for the interesting discussion. Sorry for riling a few
people (happens when you challenge people's preconceptions). Look
forward with eager anticipation to the Neo v2. Hopefully I wouldn't
have been sucked into the iPhone ecosystem before then.
And, to those who think I'm
On 18 Jan 2007, at 9:42 pm, Sencer wrote:
Everbody gets what you are saying. It is you who does not
understand that it is largely irrelevant, because everybody already
is in favour of having wifi at some point. The question is not
about the plus side of having wifi, but the question is
Hi renaissance man
On 1/18/07, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, thanks for the interesting discussion. Sorry for riling a few
people (happens when you challenge people's preconceptions). Look
forward with eager anticipation to the Neo v2. Hopefully I wouldn't
have been sucked into
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070118 23:06]:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 9:42 pm, Sencer wrote:
Everbody gets what you are saying. It is you who does not understand that it
is largely irrelevant, because everybody already is in favour of having wifi
at some point. The question
is not about
Renaissance Man writes:
And, to those who think I'm wrong about the combination of GSM and
WiFi/VoIP in a mobile device, you're just wrong and I'll be emailing
this list in 2-3 years time (with a link to this discussion) to
gloat, because so many of us will be using such devices and saving
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:24 pm, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
Not realistic, because the iPhone won't be available this year in
Europe ;)
Not according to Apple. End of 2007 is their intended release date.
Renaissance Man
___
OpenMoko community mailing
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:23 pm, Marcel de Jong wrote:
I ask you, who will pay the bandwidth bills?
The bandwidth bills are largely already paid (home and work are flat
rate), plus free hotspots, plus there's flat rate hotspot schemes
like The Cloud in Europe.
Yes, Wifi on the Neo is cool,
On Thursday 18 January 2007 21:08, Attila Csipa wrote:
Ah, I thought we were talking about switching _during_ a call (as wifi is
much more sensitive to terrain configuration - say moving away from a
window, loosing LOS to the AP, etc).
Isn't UMA supposed to be able to handle that?
* Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070119 00:00]:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:23 pm, Marcel de Jong wrote:
I ask you, who will pay the bandwidth bills?
The bandwidth bills are largely already paid (home and work are flat rate),
plus free hotspots, plus there's flat rate hotspot schemes like
On 1/18/07, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:23 pm, Marcel de Jong wrote:
I ask you, who will pay the bandwidth bills?
The bandwidth bills are largely already paid (home and work are flat
rate), plus free hotspots, plus there's flat rate hotspot schemes
like The
One more thing.. let's get this perfectly clear.
I'm not against Wifi-support in the Neo, some time in the future.
I'd love to use it, to communicate with my pc, as a sort of fileserver
or something like that.
And it would make upgrading the phone a breeze.
But it is not a must-have for me. It's
Oh great, I get to be silly now too? Okay, tag you're it.
I'm sorry but taking offence at being misconstrued is not silly.
Renaissance Man
On 19 Jan 2007, at 12:31 am, David Schlesinger wrote:
Dunno, maybe you have a reading comprehension disability
Okay, now it's _you_ that needs to be
In conclusion,
1. Both iPhone and OpenMoko are revolutionary, and in different ways.
2. Neither is designed to save you money.
3. Seamless VoIP over WiFi on a cellphone is an interesting idea, and
could save you money and trouble if you make a lot of long-distance
calls and spend a lot of time
Renaissance Man, Thu 2007-01-18 00:09 CET
Who do I talk to ask them to include WiFi connectivity with the
OpenMoko? I'll sell my body parts to get hold of such a device.
I'd resell your kidneys :-)
Why does no organisation (even Apple) seem to get it that the mobile
communications
On 17 Jan 2007, at 11:29 pm, Alexander Steinert wrote:
They got it.
Who got it?
But VoIPoWLAN as the *only* speech channel is no killer app, IMHO.
It's VoIPoWLAN + GSM.
Yeah that's what I meant. GSM's a given. As I said, Truphone offers
this capability and you have one phone number
Renaissance Man writes:
It's just a matter of patience. OpenMoko/Neo is the Way[TM].
Everything I've read says it doesn't have WiFi.
It doesn't. But assuming it's a success, there will surely be a
successor soon that does. In the meantime, a bluetooth access point
isn't a great solution, but
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:42 am, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
Renaissance Man writes:
Everything I've read says it doesn't have WiFi.
It doesn't. But assuming it's a success, there will surely be a
successor soon that does.
Or how about guarantee success by giving it WiFi. This is all it
needs to
On 1/17/07, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The reason is neither of them have VoIP via WiFi.
Who do I talk to ask them to include WiFi connectivity with the
OpenMoko? I'll sell my body parts to get hold of such a device.
Why does no organisation (even Apple) seem to get it that the
Renaissance Man wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:57 am, Richard Franks wrote:
I disagree - VoIP via WiFi is an obvious evolution rather than
revolutionary.
But you're looking at it from a geek's point of view instead of a
typical end-user's point of view.
Anything that allows me to go from
On Jan 17, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Richard Franks wrote:
I disagree - VoIP via WiFi is an obvious evolution rather than
revolutionary. I don't think it's a 'killer app' either - in the terms
of the phone manufacturer who is more likely to benefit from getting
6-12months lead and market share in an
On 1/17/07, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thursday 18 January 2007 00:09, Renaissance Man wrote:
Why does no organisation (even Apple) seem to get it that the mobile
communications revolution is through VoIP via WiFi. This is the
killer app.
Could you share with us WHY do you
On 1/17/07 5:17 PM, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:57 am, Richard Franks wrote:
I disagree - VoIP via WiFi is an obvious evolution rather than
revolutionary.
But you're looking at it from a geek's point of view instead of a
typical end-user's point of view.
What makes OpenMoko disruptive where the iPhone may not be is not WiFi
or VoIP per se.
The key ingredient is the control of one's personal public access
handle. Where voice is concerned that's your phone number. Even in
locales where number portability is available, the list of players among
On Jan 17, 2007, at 7:37 PM, David Schlesinger wrote:
The NEO's not _cheap_, exactly: there was a recent survey of 1,800
recent
purchasers of cell phones, and 21--not 21 _percent_, mind you, 21,
period--paid over $400. Not many more paid as much as $350.
To me what differentiates the NEO
On Jan 17, 2007, at 7:37 PM, David Schlesinger wrote:
The NEO's not _cheap_, exactly: there was a recent survey of 1,800
recent
purchasers of cell phones, and 21--not 21 _percent_, mind you, 21,
period--paid over $400. Not many more paid as much as $350.
To me what differentiates the NEO
On Thursday 18 January 2007 02:17, Renaissance Man wrote:
Anything that allows me to go from spending £45 plus a month on
mobile communications to effectively zero, including talking to my
parents who live on the other side of the planet, is revolutionary.
Don't forget that carriers have
On Thursday 18 January 2007 02:59, Renaissance Man wrote:
you seem to have worse autonomy
No, because you'll still have GSM, and WiFi actually ensures the
carriers lose control over you.
Bad wording, was referring to power outlet independance.
worse coverage
No, you'll have better
On Thursday 18 January 2007 00:09, Renaissance Man wrote:
The reason is neither of them have VoIP via WiFi.
Who do I talk to ask them to include WiFi connectivity with the
OpenMoko? I'll sell my body parts to get hold of such a device.
Why does no organisation (even Apple) seem to get it
On Thursday 18 January 2007 07:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't know what it is about the guy who posted this thread, but I really
think that he's got some sort of talent for getting people talking. I
posted a similar idea only yesterday that received no replies. Could
someone brief me
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