Neo case-modding ? (was Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The centered, 4.5 Diag *Finger Touch* screen with one thumb width of grip space on either end of a basically rectangular device is a Golden Form Factor. Interesting, so we got it almost right ? Screen size is of course different, but you could probably case-mod the rest. Replace the GSM antenna, cut off one speaker, put the GPS antenna in its place, put it all in a new slimmer and sexier case. Voila, there is your iNeo :-) One gotcha: the GPS antenna would end up at a much worse spot. - Werner ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On to, 2007-11-08 at 06:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It can become one quickly if everyone keeps mulling it over without adding anything new. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Sad about your project. Hope they can make that speculated 850/1800/1900 triband version a reality quick, but you can't of course assume that. Will GPS work without trouble, is it in any way affected by the bandwidth issue. 1) It's not a bandwidth issue. It's a frequency band issue. 2) GPS is not affected in any way. -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
Hi, I'm still pressing on the GSM firwmare update. TI is supposed to have an answer for us, and we've been calling them daily. They are incredibly difficult to catch. (Same problem with Global Locate regarding the GPS driver) Michael ian douglas wrote: Al Johnson wrote: We should find out one way or the other reasonably soon. Like we'd know reasonably soon about the TI modem firmware delivery system that they told us about almost a month ago? ;o) Seriously, if they can fix the 3G issue so I can just use TMobile for the time being, then great, I'll keep my Neo. But if I have to wait much longer just for the modem firmware upgrade, then this 850 issue is a serious deal breaker and I want a refund. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
I was a little imprecise here. The circuit design, and thus board layout, is what limits the handset to 3 bands. The components selected (along with firmware and certification) select the 900/1800/1900MHz bands. Michael Randall Mason wrote: Michael said above that it was a question of a physical hardware change: The chipset is capable of quad band but the board was laid out to only support 3 bands. So, 850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board. Instead we support 900/1800/1900MHz. Board layout is a hardware issue. On 11/6/07, *Tim Shannon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious, I don't know much about the hardware in question, but is it just a firmware issue, or does the hardware have to physically change to move between the 900 or the 850 frequency? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. You left out one important part in your mail below. Will GPS work without trouble, is it in any way affected by the bandwidth issue. I would surely think not, but if y0ou want to market this to someone as a PDA only, then definitely give the complete information sucha as include GPS usability in NA. Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: So, ok, the NEO does NOT support 850/1900 MHz band, this is an issue, FIC is informed of that and i think that they are evaluating the possibilities to make it working, so please just stop crying at the list my neo here isn't working... ok, i understand the problem and i understand you, but receiving a tons of similar mail is boring. AFAIK FIC members read the list, and now are just considering some solutions (at least i hope). So in conclusion, the replies at the FAQ on this issue are (forgive me if appear a bit rude but it's due to my english): I live in north america, i have my NEO dev edition and i can't get the signal, what i can do? sell your neo, it's an hardware/firmware/software issue, so it can't be fixed with a simple software upgrade I need the 850 support should i buy the neo now? No you don't have to until you want a good pda whitout the possibility to make phone calls I live in NA and i usually stay in my big city, will the neo get the signal? May be, it will probably get it but it's not assured, you can try to verify somehow if the bands supported by the neo are covering your area What can i do to make the neo supporting those bands? you can do nothing What is FIC doing about this? Don't know, i hope they are considering some solutions for this issue Last but not least: which are the solutions which FIC is considering? The solutions are: 1) do nothing, at least for the GTA02, maybe a fix in GTA03 or something similar 2) produce 2 separate phone, 1 for the NA and another one for the Rest Of The World (identical phone except the capability to get the 850/1900 band INSTEAD the 900/1800 one) 3) make a nice community poll to ask if the members can wait another 2 month (the time is just something I think) to redesign the hardware and fix the firmware so that we can have a full quad band phone) The 3rd solution was not proposed but it's another way to solve the problem, honestly i don't mind about the quad band, i live in italy and i don't think i'll ever come to america, if i'll do that i'll use some other cheap phone, but i think that it's important for other community member to have it working in quad band way, so i'll wait if the community will decide to wait and obviously FIC will consider this solution. Cya! Pietro P.S. We will wait for some FIC official solution. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Nov 8, 2007 12:29 AM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, ok, the NEO does NOT support 850/1900 MHz band, this is an issue, FIC is informed of that and i think that they are evaluating the ONLY 850 is turned off. 1900 works fine. Coverage may be sproadic or nonexistent still, but facts are useful :) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in to an existing product line. Thats a fact not a wine. I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it. Our products need a gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and it cant wait past January 2008. If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is released. This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever shifting timetables and secondly, too much risk when the rug is pulled from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US frequency bands, while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a development kit that might meet our development scenario -- (about just). Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just became a no-no. Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working state within the next year here in the USA. All of luck with OpenMoko. Bye. Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list. You left out one important part in your mail below. No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it. Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing all the features that will work.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list. You left out one important part in your mail below. No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it. Will GPS work without trouble, is it in any way affected by the bandwidth issue. I would surely think not, but if y0ou want to market this to someone as a PDA only, then definitely give the complete information sucha as include GPS usability in NA. Updates? they are told to us from Michael and there is a wiki page for them, so if you want to make a business project NEO based you have to keep in mind that it's still in development and something could go wrong, the new version (GTA02) will have more hardware like wifi and openmoko is quite usable now, but i don't know if it's so stable. The OpenMoko is free software, so you have to read the license saying something like if it works ok, if it don't fix it yourself or pay someone to fixit for you, so i have to say to be careful doing this choice. Good software and i think i'll enjoy it on the NEO (trying the qemu versions) but this is from a user/programmer/liunx fan/geek/everything you want point of view. From a business point of view you have to consider a lot of factor so you have to wait a stable release first and get all the updates on that: software firmware hardware issues (i'm doing it for the NEO just to see which are the progress) I've wrote that mail only to clarify the situation beacuse anyone was saying the same thing. I'll buy the NEO, i'll be happy if it will be a quad band phone, but i don't really mind if it'll be a triband phone because where i live this is not a problem. Thinking about myself only? Maybe, but i really care about a NEO which will work fine in my conuntry, if i have to wait for another revision or two to let this phone be full quad band to let it working well in the north america, i'll be happy to wait, no problem. Anything I want is a good device that work fine, possibly in any country with a GSM compilant network. I've made a mistake saying that the NEO isn't working with 1900MHz, it's only not working with the 850MHz one (hope to be useful and if this email seems not too polite is because of my english) Bye! Pietro Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: So, ok, the NEO does NOT support 850/1900 MHz band, this is an issue, FIC is informed of that and i think that they are evaluating the possibilities to make it working, so please just stop crying at the list my neo here isn't working... ok, i understand the problem and i understand you, but receiving a tons of similar mail is boring. AFAIK FIC members read the list, and now are just considering some solutions (at least i hope). So in conclusion, the replies at the FAQ on this issue are (forgive me if appear a bit rude but it's due to my english): I live in north america, i have my NEO dev edition and i can't get the signal, what i can do? sell your neo, it's an hardware/firmware/software issue, so it can't be fixed with a simple software upgrade I need the 850 support should i buy the neo now? No you don't have to until you want a good pda whitout the possibility to make phone calls I live in NA and i usually stay in my big city, will the neo get the signal? May be, it will probably get it but it's not assured, you can try to verify somehow if the bands supported by the neo are covering your area What can i do to make the neo supporting those bands? you can do nothing What is FIC doing about this? Don't know, i hope they are considering some solutions for this issue Last but not least: which are the solutions which FIC is considering? The solutions are: 1) do nothing, at least for the GTA02, maybe a fix in GTA03 or something similar 2) produce 2 separate phone, 1 for the NA and another one for the Rest Of The World (identical phone except the capability to get the 850/1900 band INSTEAD the 900/1800 one) 3) make a nice community poll to ask if the members can wait another 2 month (the time is just something I think) to redesign the hardware and fix the firmware so that we can have a full quad band phone) The 3rd solution was not proposed but it's another way to solve the problem, honestly i don't mind about the quad band, i live in italy and i don't think i'll ever come to america, if i'll do that i'll use some other cheap phone, but i think that it's important for other community member to have it working in quad band way, so i'll wait if the community will decide to wait and obviously FIC will consider this
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
Randall Mason wrote: How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone? I would challenge you on that flame Mr Ignoramus. I dont have to prove anything to you as I dont need your sanction. How did you convince your company to start these projects? Because I have several patents (working in industry) making a lot of money and have 100's of large industrial corporations as customers. Why was Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not enough? How do people decide that they want quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides wow, quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!)? Because simply put, IT WONT WORK in rural areas remotely as well as another cell phone supporting both bands. Been there done that. Cant you get it!? Anyway I will unsubscribe as I am not interested in non-factual hothead behavior. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone? How did you convince your company to start these projects? Why was Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not enough? How do people decide that they want quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides wow, quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!)? On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in to an existing product line. Thats a fact not a wine. I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it. Our products need a gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and it cant wait past January 2008. If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is released. This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever shifting timetables and secondly, too much risk when the rug is pulled from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US frequency bands, while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a development kit that might meet our development scenario -- (about just). Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just became a no-no. Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working state within the next year here in the USA. All of luck with OpenMoko. Bye. Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list. You left out one important part in your mail below. No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it. Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing all the features that will work.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45 Randall Mason wrote: iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. donated, under the condition that you (as in the nation) have the sole right to turn it of at any time. lets never forget, its a military system, designed to guide weapons and soldiers. that its being used for civilian uses are a afterthought more then anything else. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 03:44 +0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: (Same problem with Global Locate regarding the GPS driver) It might be nice to just send out the old module, even if it theoretically isn't useful, because somebody might be willing to hack it to make it work. Right now we have nothing. On the topic of 850 MHz, it is a problem that it's not supported. It's early days, so I don't care about it for the current phone - I can get by without it. But I'd like to hear if there are serious plans to add this band to a future revision of the phone, or whether this is simply not possible. Even if you have a build option for 850 vs. 900, that's not a good solution - I want a phone that works everywhere, not a phone that works everywhere close to me. So I hope that this is something that can happen with a future revision of the phone, even if it's not the very next revision. I'm not expecting a quick answer on this - just wanted to state my personal concerns on this, which I think are mirrored by a few other Western Hemispheroids on the list. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
I wouldn't have imagined I'd see a less productive contribution than the _rest_ of this discussion, but I guess it goes to show how mistaken one can be. I won't be hurt if you don't use GPS. On 11/8/07 8:08 AM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45 Randall Mason wrote: iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. donated, under the condition that you (as in the nation) have the sole right to turn it of at any time. lets never forget, its a military system, designed to guide weapons and soldiers. that its being used for civilian uses are a afterthought more then anything else. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
I want to apologize for this post. This post has nothing to do with community. It is just insulting to many people. I was wrong to post this and I hope the people who felt insulted will accept my apology. Stupid posts like mine are something that just drive people apart and that is NOT community. Sometimes I wish I could have never said something. Now is one of those times. Randall On 11/8/07, Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone? How did you convince your company to start these projects? Why was Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not enough? How do people decide that they want quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides wow, quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!)? On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in to an existing product line. Thats a fact not a wine. I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it. Our products need a gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and it cant wait past January 2008. If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is released. This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever shifting timetables and secondly, too much risk when the rug is pulled from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US frequency bands, while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a development kit that might meet our development scenario -- (about just). Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just became a no-no. Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working state within the next year here in the USA. All of luck with OpenMoko. Bye. Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list. You left out one important part in your mail below. No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it. Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing all the features that will work.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
Sorry. I was unclear. I was thinking from apples perspective. Releasing an application development kit is likely to increase the pressure on apple to add both Bluetooth gps and keyboard support. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:40 AM, Doug Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan wrote: Adding gps to the iPhone is likely to be a minor Bluetooth driver project. But you don't have source, so this minor project becomes impossible. The only way that is going to happen is if/when Apple integrates such driver support into the device. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
Mason... I think we are all terribly frustrated with the events of the last few days and I think this frustration is amplified by how much we all desire to see OpenMoko to succeed. We all want the perfect smartphone. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to apologize for this post. This post has nothing to do with community. It is just insulting to many people. I was wrong to post this and I hope the people who felt insulted will accept my apology. Stupid posts like mine are something that just drive people apart and that is NOT community. Sometimes I wish I could have never said something. Now is one of those times. Randall On 11/8/07, Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone? How did you convince your company to start these projects? Why was Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not enough? How do people decide that they want quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides wow, quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!)? On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in to an existing product line. Thats a fact not a wine. I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it. Our products need a gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and it cant wait past January 2008. If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is released. This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever shifting timetables and secondly, too much risk when the rug is pulled from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US frequency bands, while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a development kit that might meet our development scenario -- (about just). Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just became a no-no. Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working state within the next year here in the USA. All of luck with OpenMoko. Bye. Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list. You left out one important part in your mail below. No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it. Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing all the features that will work.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
Alan wrote: Adding gps to the iPhone is likely to be a minor Bluetooth driver project. But you don't have source, so this minor project becomes impossible. The only way that is going to happen is if/when Apple integrates such driver support into the device. -- Doug___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
I understand distrust of the availability and governance of GPS services by parties outside (and inside) the US, but there is a valid PoV that the rest of world rides free on those demonic US DoD funded satellites. Let's use up more discussion bandwidth cursing the darkness. David Schlesinger wrote: I wouldn't have imagined I'd see a less productive contribution than the _rest_ of this discussion, but I guess it goes to show how mistaken one can be. I won't be hurt if you don't use GPS. On 11/8/07 8:08 AM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45 Randall Mason wrote: iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. donated, under the condition that you (as in the nation) have the sole right to turn it of at any time. lets never forget, its a military system, designed to guide weapons and soldiers. that its being used for civilian uses are a afterthought more then anything else. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Bill Weinberg - Embedded and Open Source Analyst / Consultant http://www.linuxpundit.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 831-662-2857 (p) | 408-568-2492 (m) | 831-662-2852 (f) Blogs: http://activeanalysis.net/blog/18 http://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/mobile ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
Adding gps to the iPhone is likely to be a minor Bluetooth driver project. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 8, 2007, at 7:44 AM, Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project? GPS works in the US. It is a US invention. It is owned by the US. It is run by the US. We donate it to the world. Why would it not work in the US? It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System. How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone? How did you convince your company to start these projects? Why was Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not enough? How do people decide that they want quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides wow, quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!)? On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in to an existing product line. Thats a fact not a wine. I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it. Our products need a gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and it cant wait past January 2008. If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is released. This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever shifting timetables and secondly, too much risk when the rug is pulled from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US frequency bands, while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a development kit that might meet our development scenario -- (about just). Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just became a no-no. Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working state within the next year here in the USA. All of luck with OpenMoko. Bye. Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or a whine. It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my project in my company until I find something else. Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list. You left out one important part in your mail below. No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it. Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing all the features that will work.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Let's move on to other issues
We have beaten the 850 Mhz issue to death. Likewise... Apple iPhone form factor and GUI is cool and Oh my God, Google's Gphone is the end of civilization (and OpenMoko). Let's shift our group energy to helping the OpenMoko team make this a killer open source phone + PDA product. Remember that time to market is vital. That means the first iteration will mainly appeal to ROW (rest of world, outside USA), but since we know FIC is working the 850 Mhz issue, the US version should arrive say 90 days later, Focus, focus focus. We'll overcome this glitch No more whining! smile -- Ron K. Jeffries ron_jeffries Skype http://blog.eronj.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
highly offtopic but oh so fun :D
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071108 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let's move on to other issues
Ron Jeffries wrote: We have beaten the 850 Mhz issue to death. Likewise... Apple iPhone form factor and GUI is cool and Oh my God, Google's Gphone is the end of civilization (and OpenMoko). Let's shift our group energy to helping the OpenMoko team make this a killer open source phone + PDA product. Remember that time to market is vital. That means the first iteration will mainly appeal to ROW (rest of world, outside USA), but since we know FIC is working the 850 Mhz issue, the US version should arrive say 90 days later, Focus, focus focus. We'll overcome this glitch No more whining! smile Thanks Ron For couple of last days thouse discussions don't made my reading expirience better. I just prefer to made all of messsages from thread redad and move on. IMHO there lot of to do on community side. Lets make the next move Regards Evgeny ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: highly offtopic but oh so fun :D
More phunnies http://www.clipstr.com/videos/ConanIPhoneCommercialItDoesEverything/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
i'm going to lose my neo....
i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left it behind what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
there was another one... it was a pair of little metal boxes... you stuck one to the object... the other one would sound an alarm if you walked away On 11/8/07, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Andros wrote: Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the software for the gadget was Windows-only. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 23:46 +0100, AVee wrote: I think it whould help an awfull lot, it would allow you to switch firmware before leaving to an 850 or 900 area. In a lot af cases that will involve a air travel and a somewhat longer stay in the 'other frequency' area. If it could be just a build option I also can imagine a bit of software which makes the switch trivial. I wish it were so, but what I mean by a build option is that they put a different part on the board if you want 850 vs. 900. Which I think is what was proposed. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Battery time
Hi! So for the longest time, I've been worrying about the battery life of the Neo. Before I buy the GTA02, it is something I'd love to know. The wiki has entries talking about which power management things are implemented and which aren't, and I assume this will increase over time. On the iPhone page, the Battery row of the table says 8h talk on iPhone and replaceable 1.7 Ah battery charged via USB on the Neo - not very extensive info. So, since many of you seem to have Neos now, and since the dialer app is (supposedly) working now, how's the phone for real-world usage? How long between charges for *you*? What do *you* do with it during normal usage? Cheers, Oliver ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still being within hearing distance. Another option would be to buy one of these personal GSM jammers and program the Neo to make a noise when it finds a network. But that approach might have some disadvantages ;-) AVee -- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Jeff Andros wrote: Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the software for the gadget was Windows-only. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 00:15:09 AVee wrote: On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still being within hearing distance. thats basically the approach that sonyericsson took with their bluetooth watch. if said watch lost contact with the phone, it would vibrate to tell the wearer about it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Wednesday 07 November 2007 21:39, Tommi Virtanen wrote: The only reason USA picked non-standard frequencies was because they had already licensed the 900 and 1800 MHz bands to something else. Just totaly useless curiousity, but does anyone know what these bands are used for in the US? -- Endless Loop, n.: see Loop, Endless. Loop, Endless, n.: see Endless Loop. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice Failing that, why don't you try the simple technology called the lanyard and carrying pouch that came with the neo. Since my neo sometimes doesn't register the sim card and has crap battery life (thanks qtopia) it sits on my desk. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
I forgot to mention, with the modules I have looked at and also worked with, you send a command over the serial port to switch bands. That is all. Regarding the board design dilemma, I suppose that means the antenna as is probably part of the pcb board is not tuned to be quad band. It must be possible because thousands of other phones work that way. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 11/8/07, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
My idea was an application to : when you lost your Neo, send a special SMS with the cellular phone of a friend, to your Neo. The goal is that the Neo will answer the coordinates X and Y with GPS. Maybe in the future transform coordinates to an real adress... 2007/11/8, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left it behind what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Florent Delvaille ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Moin, Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson: ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact. (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo buzzer or vibrator.) In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different context). The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band, but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no Wifi). But it's small and very low power. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
You should not have to switch firmware for the different bands. That would be insanity. A quad band module should be able to use one image for everything. That apparently isn't the case at the moment, but it should be, and hopefully they are working towards that end. Not sure what the deal is with calypso but I have looked very closely at several other quad band modules and there is none of this problem. Check out for example the telit modules and the mult-tech modules. They are likely more expensive but they definitely do quad band and they don't need different firmware for different bands. http://www.multitech.com/PRODUCTS/Families/SocketModemEDGE/ http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=66_68 Load different firmware to travel? WTF? Dear FIC please work on quad band with single firmware. If calypso is problematic for this then please ditch it and get another module, there are many many to choose from and gsm serial code is standard so there should not be a huge number of changes required. I noticed that TI is very secretive and protective of their cell technology. I am starting to think that it's a bad choice. I have all the docs for the above two modules and everything is well documented and ready to go. They both have direct antenna connector, although the telit surface mount modules allow you to make part of the pcb board the antenna. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Thursday 08 November 2007 17:14, Ted Lemon wrote: On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 03:44 +0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: Even if you have a build option for 850 vs. 900, that's not a good solution - I want a phone that works everywhere, not a phone that works everywhere close to me. I think it whould help an awfull lot, it would allow you to switch firmware before leaving to an 850 or 900 area. In a lot af cases that will involve a air travel and a somewhat longer stay in the 'other frequency' area. If it could be just a build option I also can imagine a bit of software which makes the switch trivial. However, the issue appears to involve hardware as well, so I don't have high hopes for that. But maybe thet manage to get a jumper on the board or something... AVee -- AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Greetings
Hi everyone, I just joined the list after having read the last month or so worth of archives and can only say...I'm simply not buying a phone until I can buy the first Neo, one that comes equipped with WiFi. I've never paid for a phone more than 15 euros (usually signing a yearly contract instead), but I'm willing to spend a couple of hundred euros for a computing platform packed into a phone form factor and almost unprecedented level of integration into it's environment (touch screen, GPS, GPRS, GSM, WiFi, accelerometers). Also, I think openbeacon is a great product and would like to see something like that in a future version of Neo, the use case being attaching cheap RFID tags to my keys, my wallet etc. so that Neo could detect moving away from the marks and could take action (beep, record last location, whatever). From what I've read, it seems that openbeacon is limited to a relatively small (10cm) range: I'd like it to be more in the range of a meter. I am a developer, spending a lot of my time working with java and would very much like to see some kind of java running on the device both as a door opener to a see of existing applications (e.g. e-book readers) and so that I could use my knowledge and motivation to produce new applications for the Neo. Cheers, Tomislav ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
I don't see why you don't do this with bluetooth. If you have a headset that you will always have in your bag or on your person (ie. it doesn't get left behind with your phone if you leave) you can run this script on your Neo. You just have it constantly pinging the headset and testing the rssi of the connection. When it goes below a point, have it play a siren ring tone. http://www.goitexpert.com/entry.cfm?entry=Use-Your-Bluetooth-Cell-Phone-as-a-Proximity-Card-for-your-Laptop It seems to work for me. For my phone/dongle combination, I would probably set the distance at a 0 or a -5 for the minimum RSSI before making a siren noise. For the script in the link, you would not have anything for NEAR_CMD and FAR_CMD=mpg123 siren.mp3 for example. Does this sound feasible? It could give you an excuse to get a bluetooth headset :-). Of course ,then again, if your headset runs out of batteries then your phone will start alerting everybody on the train while you struggle to kill the looping background process :-). Randall On 11/8/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moin, Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson: ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact. (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo buzzer or vibrator.) In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different context). The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band, but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no Wifi). But it's small and very low power. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery time
Hello, I was running Qtopia for 5 or 6 weeks, and under that, I was getting about 5 hours of time tops, whether I used the phone or not. The battery indicator has 5 bars, and after a good 4 hours, there would still be 3 bars left (60%, or so you might think). But by that point, the power dropped very quickly and the phone would just shut off. I managed to flash OpenMoko on the Neo last weekend, even with my broken Aux button (had to take off the faceplate and carefully hold the contact in place, but managed to do it...). I just now got in after having it unplugged for 7 hours, and the battery still shows mostly full. I had set the power management to Dim Only, and with that alone OpenMoko seems to be doing much better than Qtopia. I also notice that the phone is not so hot--Qtopia seems to have it running full power almost all the time. Other notes: Qtopia (Image from around October 7) * Phone seems to stop working after a few days, and needs to be rebooted. There's no indication when this has happened--you just can't make or receive calls anymore. * Rebooting didn't actually work--I nearly always had to remove the battery to reboot. * There was a delay in audio switching, both on outgoing and incoming calls. I never heard the first few words people answered with--I had to start talking when I heard the audio switch, without knowing whether I had actually reached the right person. You never heard a remote line ring--the audio would switch after the call was answered, whether by a person or voicemail. * SMS is beautiful, when the message arrives when the phone was on. * There's no voicemail indicator--but I received empty text messages when there was a new voicemail, and again after clearing the message. * Phone numbers on the SIM card showed up in the address book. * You can't redial a number or pick a number out of the call history to dial (I think it assumes you have a hard button for that). * Dialing a number in the address book works fine, though the button to do it is hard to press with a finger (most other things in Qtopia worked easily without the pen) * You get an echo sound at first, but can use alsamixer to turn down the sidetone and then the phone sounds perfectly normal. * No mediaplayer, feed reader, or all the other cool stuff that's in OpenMoko. * Keyboard auto-completes far too easily (and wrong most of the time) but the zoom keys are actually usable with fingers. * No terminal. Ugh. * GPRS doesn't work. Didn't get my bluetooth headset working, either. * Ring profiles work great--easy to switch between vibrate only and audible ring. OpenMoko (Scaredycat image from November 1) * I get frequent messages indicating that it's just associated with the GSM network. * No audible ring, vibrate only. * Panel crashes about once a day, necessitating a reboot. * Rebooting works (if the Today application hasn't crashed). * OS still seems less stable, everything still seems to crash more than Qtopia. * Audio switches immediately, much more normal for making and receiving calls--you hear the phone ring at the other end. * No SMS, or voicemail indicator. * Much easier to dial, hang-up, do other basic calling tasks. * Dialing from history works. * Dialing from address book mostly works, but not if there's punctuation in the phone number (I copied my Evolution addressbook over, and most of the entries don't work unless I strip out dashes/parentheses) * Haven't tried GPRS or Bluetooth yet. * Sound quality has a bad echo--haven't found the appropriate sidetone control in Alsamixer yet. * Mediaplayer has come a long way! If I could get it to seek within a track, it would be all I need. * Keyboard is very difficult to use with fingers alone. In general, you need the pen more with OpenMoko. All in all? I'd have to say I like using OpenMoko better, it acts more like a normal phone, the battery life seems more reasonable (though I haven't run it long enough to tell you more about battery life). But I'm still having the sidetone issues, no ringer, and it still seems to crash a little too much. And the lack of SMS is a bit of a problem, since I get pages from my servers (though it's nice and quiet without it!) And a recent update hosed most of the menu, so I can't get to the feedreader or terminal at the moment... Cheers, John Oliver Uvman wrote: Hi! So for the longest time, I've been worrying about the battery life of the Neo. Before I buy the GTA02, it is something I'd love to know. The wiki has entries talking about which power management things are implemented and which aren't, and I assume this will increase over time. On the iPhone page, the Battery row of the table says 8h talk on iPhone and replaceable 1.7 Ah battery charged via USB on the Neo - not very extensive info. So, since many of you seem to have Neos now, and since the dialer app is (supposedly) working now, how's the phone for real-world usage? How long between charges for *you*? What do *you* do
