Re: I got charged ;) -me too!
Quoting Martin Straub on 07/22/2007 07:04 AM UTC: Kyle Bassett schrieb: #2081, and I am in total suspense! Kyle C'mon I am #3560 and 54 years old. Will I live to receive it ? I' afraid my last words will be: Did it arrive ? No ? Aargh. (dies). ;-) ? Martin Man, that would suck! Please feel free to step before me in the line.. :) -- - xkr47 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;) -me too!
Martin Straub pisze: Kyle Bassett schrieb: #2081, and I am in total suspense! Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community C'mon I am #3560 and 54 years old. Will I live to receive it ? I' afraid my last words will be: Did it arrive ? No ? Aargh. (dies). ;-) ? Martin LOL! Great sense of humour - RESPECT! :-D I have 3530, so we're very near :) Let's keep in touch. -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard Insurance Ltd. Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Sebastian Krause wrote: Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess asking for a forum -- NNTP gateway would be asking too much? No: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community Hey, that was very nifty indeed! Lets see if this is a two-way gateway as well. It is, but for some lists you must be member with the mail address you use in the newsreader. I'm not sure about this one (even if I use it!) gmane is really a wonderful service, I read all my lists through it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: (sbup) I guess asking for a forum -- NNTP gateway would be asking too much? There's already the possibility of reading the list as a NNTP group via the gmane news servers... personally I don't like webbased forums. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Jano wrote: There's already the possibility of reading the list as a NNTP group via the gmane news servers... personally I don't like webbased forums. Just tried it, great service ! Mickael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
On 7/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think most people are jumping way too far ahead.. agree If this is to be used by anyone other than linux geeks it has to have windows support. completely agree It has to synch with outlook. If it does not work seemlessly with windows, it will never have mass appeal (and maybe thats the goal??) Ok, you're right. Users need to be able to drag and drop files between the device and windows. Stop. No, here is your error. Out of 20 avarege users, only 5 _know_ that there exxists something like drag and drop. It's important that it's there, for every mac user, for every advanced user or even for every enthusistic teen, but for the avarage user, a interface liek the upload of a file on a homepage is the best (clock here, selet file, clock ok, click upload). The alternative is that it shows up as a hard disc, like Iomega did for their Network hard drives. We should provide more solutions for one problem, so that we allow the idiot but also the genius (sorry for the terms to use AND customize it. Wanna new interface look? same procedure as for copying a song on the phone. Or syncing with exchange. Mp3's, pictures, and to some degree videos need to be user friendly to move between the 2.. Videos need atleast a converter app to run on windows to resample to something the neo can handle with the simple push of 1 button.. Ok, agree. Would even be better without converter. People don't like seeming their things converted. The ability to customize this forever is a good thing, it needs to be available. But i think to the end user it has to be hidden. Oh, no. The user shoudl be able to customize the aesthetics. And this should be really easy. No average joe wants to spend 5 hours a day re-building the tip of the kernel so he can ftp the latest new kids on the block track to his phone, and then ssh in to start it playing No, but some geeks want to. And he should have the possibility to. Avarege Joe should have a nice grphical frontend that says (Wanna update your phone, copy your newest song on it and have a caffe meanwhile?) (ok, i think we need soem sort of coffe interface). All of these apps and ideas are awesome. I hope to be active in writing some of these.. But for this to be more than a science experiment and become a viable product for the masses, it all has to be dumbed down and point and click and work without thinking about it.. Agree 100% Maybe I stated the obvious, but I would like this phone to be a success and thats how i see it happening.. start with the basics... Agree 120%. have a functiong dialer and sms service. then talk of everything else. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a proper news reader. I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to create an nntp gateway. See the sympy group for an example http://groups.google.com/group/sympy http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sympy Niels ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
On 7/23/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 22 Jul 2007, at 20:31, Adam Krikstone wrote: AGPS is where focus needs to be. This natural (and free) comparative advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers. Unfortunately people will want Tomtom, much of the other stuff is useless to most people. You need GPS turn by turn routing to bring in the masses. Nokia 6110 Navigator - advertised on the back of the bus I followed on my way home, and this is way away in Perth Western Australia.. clare ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Nokia 6110 Navigator - advertised on the back of the bus I followed on my way home, and this is way away in Perth Western Australia.. clare Thing is, we have better hardware than Nokia in terms of GPS. They use an AGPS solution which is just part of the chipset they use. It's not a powerful standalone GPS unit. I'm not sure if it will be possible to have a turn by turn routing system for this phone. Maybe if someone could do a version of WINE but using the Windows Mobile API we could just run their apps? :) --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: News-Feedback 26197: Inhaltlicher Fehler in der Newsmeldung
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sehr geehrter Leser, vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail. Der Hinweis ist bereits im letzten Absatz enthalten: Zielgruppe des Neo 1973 sind dementsprechend natürlich in erster Linie Entwickler. Weiterhin viel Spaß mit onlinekosten.de. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Aleksandra Leon Redakteurin Tel.: +49 (2233) 612-1898 Fax: +49 (2233) 612-1899 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: www.onlinekosten.de onlinekosten.de GmbH Daimlerstraße 9-11 D-50354 Hürth Geschäftsführer: Christoph Berger Gerichtsstand: HRB Köln 52105 Umsatzsteuer-ID: DE 216 740 823 Bankverbindung: Sparkasse Waldkirchen, BLZ: 740 512 30, Kto: 342 980 - -- gpg --keyserver blackhole.pca.dfn.de --recv-key 0x02A8522A fingerprint: 5182 759A BC4D 0131 51F7 2E36 BB33 4E22 02A8 522A tim tim schrieb: Der Besucher tim tim mit der IP 84.188.165.84 (p54BCA554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) und dem Browser Opera/9.21 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en) hat am Fri, 13.07.2007 17:22:23 folgende Nachricht gesendet: --- Newsmeldung: Phone-Ei soll iPhone Konkurrenz machen(ID: 26197) News-URL: http://www.onlinekosten.de/news/artikel/26197/ Absender: tim tim Empfnger: Aleksandra Leon [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Hallo, was im Artikel nicht erwähnt wird: Der Neo1973 ist noch KEIN Endbenutzergerät. Quelle: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/11/neo-1973-phase-1-started/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpJzwuzNOIgKoUioRAnU5AJkBIhwAnOGy897rlKTfLD9gslH6KQCcCnkK mpdK+tzMmuvRLSKWStvAklg= =jQ/J -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing...
Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Isn't SyncML[1] aka OMA[2] standard on Windows? Standard as in there exists a SyncML application for windows thgat allows you to sync with Outlook ...? and if SyncML / OMA is standard, can't we just use that? 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncml 2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMA_Device_Management I know for a fact there's a way of syncronising with Outlook when Outlook is running. Google Desktop uses it and some other search solutions do as well. We shouldn't however go after solutions for Outlook, IE at the expense of Firefox and other open source applications. Also consider that we need viewers for Word, Open document format? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Camera on GTA02
Hey guys, Can anyone confirm whether GTA02 will have a camera or no? The question has been asked a few times on the mailing list and I've seen speculations, but no real answers. Seeing as the Samsung 2442 SoC can support a camera interface, is it safe to assume that this feature will be utilized? Has the camera plan been dropped with the addition of the accelerometers? Does anyone know for sure? Thanks. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Fwd: Re: OK, the forum is coming..]
Messaggio Originale Oggetto: Re: OK, the forum is coming.. Data: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:14:31 +0200 Da: Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] Niels L. Ellegaard ha scritto: Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a proper news reader. I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to create an nntp gateway. I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support thread! all messages are ordered just by date. So it's the same as reading the messages in own mailbox. Doh. Valerio ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Coomac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Hey guys,Can anyone confirm whether GTA02 will have a camera or no? The question has been asked a few times on the mailing list and I#39;ve seen speculations, but no real answers. Seeing as the Samsung 2442 SoC can support a camera interface, is it safe to assume that this feature will be utilized? Has the camera plan been dropped with the addition of the accelerometers? Does anyone know for sure? Thanks. As mention previously, anything which requires the modification of the casing will be very expensive and so it's not planned. I'm sure however that people will have a go at hacking the unit and addition a module in somehow. Personally it's not a feature I care for, what with owning an SLR. I'm hoping to port some photo management software, maybe use ufRaw or similar. So you'd be able to hook up your SLR or compact. But obviously memory is tight on the device. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: OK, the forum is coming..]
Hello, On 7/23/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support thread! all messages are ordered just by date. So it's the same as reading the messages in own mailbox. Doh. Hmm, which newsreader are you using? I'm using Thunderbird, and the list is thraded there. -- Regards, Torfinn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: OK, the forum is coming..]
If you are using the nntp protocol, it means you have a client, right ? My client is Thunderbird, and it supports threads. The last time I used the _web_ interface, it had threads. Mickael. On 7/23/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Messaggio Originale Oggetto: Re: OK, the forum is coming.. Data: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:14:31 +0200 Da: Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] Niels L. Ellegaard ha scritto: Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a proper news reader. I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to create an nntp gateway. I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support thread! all messages are ordered just by date. So it's the same as reading the messages in own mailbox. Doh. Valerio ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Mickael. Coding an AI ! http://faivrem.googlepages.com/antbattle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Monday 23 July 2007 14:10, coomac wrote: Hey guys, Can anyone confirm whether GTA02 will have a camera or no? The question has been asked a few times on the mailing list and I've seen speculations, but no real answers. Seeing as the Samsung 2442 SoC can support a camera interface, is it safe to assume that this feature will be utilized? Has the camera plan been dropped with the addition of the accelerometers? Does anyone know for sure? Thanks. It's not mentioned in the list of new features and capabilities for the GTA02 while the other devices are. AFAIK nobody from FIC has even hinted at camera support in GTA02. Interestingly in a recent survey The Register found a camera was the only feature rated undesirable by more people than rated it desirable. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/ I've worked at sites where cameras, including in phones, aren't allowed. It'll be nice to have something modern to take to such sites. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/23/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As mention previously, anything which requires the modification of the casing will be very expensive and so it's not planned. I'm sure however that people will have a go at hacking the unit and addition a module in somehow. Personally it's not a feature I care for, what with owning an SLR. I'm hoping to port some photo management software, maybe use ufRaw or similar. So you'd be able to hook up your SLR or compact. But obviously memory is tight on the device. --- G O Jones Thanks for clearing that up. I had been waiting for an announcement of the camera resolution like a kid on christmas eve. Was really hoping for a 3 MP to replace my current phone or at least a 2 MP with video to better trounce the iPhone. I still have high hopes for the phone, though I can't help wondering how much the lack of a basic camera will affect mass adoption. Possibly very ignorant on my part, but I was under the assumption modifying the case to add a camera hole would be a very minor change (read inexpensive). Ie drilling (cutting out?) a hole and covering it with some transparent material like glass or plastic. I know zilch about how this works on a large scale, so it is entirely possible I'm wrong here. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko and Funambol not working together?
I've just noticed that the openmoko logo appears to have been removed from the funambol 'community partners list' http://www.funambol.com/opensource/partners.html I know it was there recently. Is there any info on this? Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Coomac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Was really hoping for a 3 MP to replace my current phone or at least a 2 MP with video to better trounce the iPhone. I still have high hopes for the phone, It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. though I can#39;t help wondering how much the lack of a basic camera will affect mass adoption. If it's a feature you have to have then it will affect some sales. But whenever I see people put their best photos online they're always taken with an SLR or decent compact. Also, lack of camera is good for business, many business phones lack camera. Possibly very ignorant on my part, but I was under the assumption modifying the case to add a camera hole would be a very minor change It would, but then you have to ask yourself what is behind the hole. There may not be space. All of my phones have had such dire cameras I have no interest in using them. I'd sooner see support for Wifi/USB connections to proper cameras. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Giles Jones wrote: Coomac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Was really hoping for a 3 MP to replace my current phone or at least a 2 MP with video to better trounce the iPhone. I still have high hopes for the phone, It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. though I can#39;t help wondering how much the lack of a basic camera will affect mass adoption. If it's a feature you have to have then it will affect some sales. But whenever I see people put their best photos online they're always taken with an SLR or decent compact. Also, lack of camera is good for business, many business phones lack camera. Agreed. Most places I've worked have a complete ban on cameras, and I'd really like the GTA02 to be my primary phone(tm). Possibly very ignorant on my part, but I was under the assumption modifying the case to add a camera hole would be a very minor change It would, but then you have to ask yourself what is behind the hole. There may not be space. All of my phones have had such dire cameras I have no interest in using them. I'd sooner see support for Wifi/USB connections to proper cameras. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Giles Jones wrote: Also, lack of camera is good for business, many business phones lack camera. Oh, I'm sure we could come up with good business uses for cameras. In an open phone, cameras do more than just take pictures. The key, as you stated, is to have a fairly good quality camera. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;) -me too!
Le dimanche 22 juillet 2007 à 09:04 +0200, Martin Straub a écrit : [...] C'mon I am #3560 and 54 years old. Will I live to receive it ? I' afraid my last words will be: Did it arrive ? No ? Aargh. (dies). ;-) ? Martin Hmmm. That's the optimistic scenario. Imagine the worst case: Did it arrive ? Yes!?! Aargh. (dies anyway). ;-)) Rodolphe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
On 7/20/07, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Adam Krikstone wrote: There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. Different operators have different implementation of the GSM standard, which they call it their IP-crap-R. Now, if we want Operator Acceptance Testing with Neo, we have to sign NDA, SLA with the operators? In which case, we cannot implement the same on the Neo as the source code is open, and operators will not like that? Please correct me if I am wrong. I think acceptance test is required when a phone is locked with a plan. In situations where you can use unlocked phones without requiring permissions from GSM operators, no such test should be required. Probably, acceptance test is applicable to GSM chipset and not the phone as such. Btw any documents/pointers on so called operator acceptance test ? regards VK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Operator phone requirements are huge and ornate, and, essentially, conformance testing is done by invitation only, only for phones that the operator is planning on selling directly. The requirements for one major European carrier are about 1200 pages in length... The requirements are only available under an NDA. vivek khurana wrote: On 7/20/07, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Adam Krikstone wrote: There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. Different operators have different implementation of the GSM standard, which they call it their IP-crap-R. Now, if we want Operator Acceptance Testing with Neo, we have to sign NDA, SLA with the operators? In which case, we cannot implement the same on the Neo as the source code is open, and operators will not like that? Please correct me if I am wrong. I think acceptance test is required when a phone is locked with a plan. In situations where you can use unlocked phones without requiring permissions from GSM operators, no such test should be required. Probably, acceptance test is applicable to GSM chipset and not the phone as such. Btw any documents/pointers on so called operator acceptance test ? regards VK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Krzysztof Kajkowski, Sat, Jul 21, 2007 15:49:37 +0200: ...and shipping cost are LOWER than previously mentioned on the page: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $67.89 USD Total: $367.89 USD Me too: $300 + $50.30 shipping (Germany, BW). Original was $371.85 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Giles Jones wrote: snip All of my phones have had such dire cameras I have no interest in using them. I saw a very good reason for always carrying a phone around with you (even a low quality digital) recently. A truck crashed into a BMW at a junction outside my office window. The first thing the bloke in the beemer did was jump out of the car, whip out his phone and take photographs of the incident. I know of a number of people who have been forced to take 50-50 agreements in insurance claim incidents when the other party was at fault but there were no witnesses. Granted, the chances of actually having a crash are slim, but there is a benefit to always carrying a camera, just in case. I'd sooner see support for Wifi/USB connections to proper cameras. Me too, while I'd like a camera to be there I wouldn't want it to detract from more important dev work. -Gordon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/23/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe so, but as has been pointed out, phonecams are banned in a lot of places, many of them businesses. Go buy an HP or Fuji (or whatever) camera with 5MP and optical zoom for a hundred bucks and wear it on the other hip. You'll be glad you did when you see the picture quality compared to a typical phonecam. Is the Neo aiming to be the next crackberry, made specifically for business users and a few stragglers from the general population? If so, there's no point in the discussion. However, many people have pointed out that a phone needs a keyboard to be a good business phone so the Neo must be shooting for a broader market. I'm a college age twenty something and would very much love to see this phone adopted by other college age twenty somethings. Heck I'd love to see this phone adopted by the myspace tween group despite all the support horror that might involve (because this is real mass adoption!). Need I mention that cameras are generally not banned for this group? Disclaimer: I'm 100% phone camera biased, as I am one of the arguably few that buy phones with digicam quality images (yay for Nokia N series). Most phone cameras do not compare to HP or Fuji cameras, but then again, people don't carry their digital cameras around all the time. Their phones are usually joined at the hip however and tends to be the camera getting whipped out for those can't-miss-it shots. Rather than alienate one group over the other, why not have something for both? A non camera version for those who don't need the feature as well as a camera version with the exact same specs for those who can't live without it? I mean, why have a chip with camera support if there are no plans to use if fully? Tag on a $50 difference or something. Problem solved. It won't be feasible in the near future if it involves a major holdup or deviation from the current product, but if it's doable, why not? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. Right. My simple version of this is Cameras have lenses - phones, for the most part, don't. This is why, for me, being able to do USB *host* is a killer feature, so I can take *real* pictures and caption and flickr them, without carrying around a laptop... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 23 Jul 2007, at 17:04, Gordon Syme wrote: Me too, while I'd like a camera to be there I wouldn't want it to detract from more important dev work. Well, the driver and software can be made. This project isn't about just one hardware unit. I'm sure a USB webcam could be hacked to work when you're desperate for a camera. Would need external power and you'd look like a wally. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Brad Pitcher wrote: Giles Jones wrote: Also, lack of camera is good for business, many business phones lack camera. Oh, I'm sure we could come up with good business uses for cameras. In an open phone, cameras do more than just take pictures. The key, as you stated, is to have a fairly good quality camera. Really, including a camera would really ruin the GTA0n for a large proportion of people, who have day jobs that involve NDAs... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko and Funambol not working together?
Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote: I didn't find the logo at any date (didn't search all tho) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.funambol.com/opensource/partners.html Try this one: http://www.funambol.com/partners/ On 7/23/07, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just noticed that the openmoko logo appears to have been removed from the funambol 'community partners list' ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Mark Eichin wrote: It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. Right. My simple version of this is Cameras have lenses - phones, for the most part, don't. This is why, for me, being able to do USB *host* is a killer feature, so I can take *real* pictures and caption and flickr them, without carrying around a laptop... Camera's with Bleutooth filetransfer would solve this problem. (and the one of not knowing where you last use the cable...) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
What would be kind of cool for the next model, is a clear window in the back of the case, with a plug-in module system behind it. If we could bring the camera interface as well as I2C and SPI out to a connector right there, the people who want a camera to take drunken blackmail shots of their friends can do so, and those who need to pull the camera can put something else in that slot. -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
The functionality is too close to a mailing list really... It would be another means of communication from the dark times of the internet which most developers, old people and nerds might love. It wouldn't help in any way to expand the community, though. We are NOT looking for a way to replace the mailing list. We want to ADD another channel of communication that not everyone has to like but would attract new people. Ortwin On 7/23/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about creating a google group ? You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it as a forum. Everybody is happy. Mickael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Rather than alienate one group over the other, why not have something for both? A non camera version for those who don't need the feature as well as a camera version with the exact same specs for those who can't live without it? I mean, why have a chip with camera support if there are no plans to use if fully? Tag on a $50 difference or something. Problem solved. It won't be feasible in the near future if it involves a major holdup or deviation from the current product, but if it's doable, why not? I would prefer a camera too. But the impression I get re this project is that the FIC team is doing everything humanly possible just to get the product out as is. I'm still glad they managed to shoehorn wifi in there, that's more important to me than a camera, and it sounds like wifi is more of a technical challenge as well. Personally I'm hoping that it will be possible to retrofit a camera onto the GTA02 because I'm not going to wait for a GTA03 (or whatever comes after GTA02). I'm willing to bet that if it is possible there will be people making kits to add a camera in short order. We may even see that as an enhancement to the GTA01 before the 02 comes out. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:27, coomac wrote: Rather than alienate one group over the other, why not have something for both? A non camera version for those who don't need the feature as well as a camera version with the exact same specs for those who can't live without it? I mean, why have a chip with camera support if there are no plans to use if fully? Tag on a $50 difference or something. Problem solved. It won't be feasible in the near future if it involves a major holdup or deviation from the current product, but if it's doable, why not? Guys Gals... There have been talks of add on packs that let people increase thickness of the case and do things that were not really intended originally. Since we have a pretty strong idea that the GTA02 will not include a camera.. We can add it as a wishlist item for GTA03.. And no need to argue over it. BUT there is the chance that some kind of addon pack could be made for the GTA02 after its sold. In this case, a production molded back plate could be included so no drilling would be required. If its planned out right, these addon packs could be simply unscrew backplate, snap new addon pack down, screw on backplate, install new software. Now I will also be the first to say that it won't be this easy in the beginning... But it *could* eventually. For Instance, forget about connecting with the camera pins if they are not exposed and use something else, we have (maybe not optimal) I2C, Spi?.. But how about an option that doesn't require wires?.. Say bluetooth, wifi... Maybe use I2C to control the device and bluetooth to transfer the data.. The point is, that for now its not going to happen.. But think a little outside of the box for ways to make it happen as an option. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
coomac wrote: On 7/23/07, *Giles Jones* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As mention previously, anything which requires the modification of the casing will be very expensive and so it's not planned. I'm sure however that people will have a go at hacking the unit and addition a module in somehow. Personally it's not a feature I care for, what with owning an SLR. I'm hoping to port some photo management software, maybe use ufRaw or similar. So you'd be able to hook up your SLR or compact. But obviously memory is tight on the device. --- G O Jones Thanks for clearing that up. I had been waiting for an announcement of the camera resolution like a kid on christmas eve. Was really hoping for a 3 MP to replace my current phone or at least a 2 MP with video to better trounce the iPhone. I still have high hopes for the phone, though I can't help wondering how much the lack of a basic camera will affect mass adoption. Possibly very ignorant on my part, but I was under the assumption modifying the case to add a camera hole would be a very minor change (read inexpensive). Ie drilling (cutting out?) a hole and covering it with some transparent material like glass or plastic. I know zilch about how this works on a large scale, so it is entirely possible I'm wrong here. Sigh. I'm having flashbacks to the can't you just add some WiFi? discussions of the GTA-01 unit. Okay, since I seem to frequently function as the injector of some reality into these discussions (aka wet blanket), yes, drilling a hole in the case is straightforward. Now, how do you propose to actually wire the camera module into the rest of the system, dare I ask...? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
coomac wrote: On 7/23/07, *Ian Darwin* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe so, but as has been pointed out, phonecams are banned in a lot of places, many of them businesses. Go buy an HP or Fuji (or whatever) camera with 5MP and optical zoom for a hundred bucks and wear it on the other hip. You'll be glad you did when you see the picture quality compared to a typical phonecam. Is the Neo aiming to be the next crackberry, made specifically for business users and a few stragglers from the general population? If so, there's no point in the discussion. However, many people have pointed out that a phone needs a keyboard to be a good business phone so the Neo must be shooting for a broader market. Fear not, FIC actually wants to sell lots of phones. The Neo1973 GTA02 will not have a camera, but FIC have said there will be many other models of phone running the OpenMoko distro. AFTER THERE IS WORKING BASIC SOFTWARE. It is a virtual certainty that some of these other phones will have cameras. Keyboards. Whatever the market wants. But later. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Okay, since I seem to frequently function as the injector of some reality into these discussions (aka wet blanket), yes, drilling a hole in the case is straightforward. Now, how do you propose to actually wire the camera module into the rest of the system, dare I ask...? The gpio pins? https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA01Bv3/gpio.txt although I'm not sure which ones and it'll be a different pinout for the upgraded processor in GTA02. I'm not sure wether you could connect a USB camera with a hacked USB cable with 3 or 4 1.5V batteries in line to provide power. If the NEOs battery is ~5V could you route wires from the battery terminals to the USB socket? therefore having a powered USB socket. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 23 Jul 2007, at 20:16, andy selby wrote The gpio pins? https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA01Bv3/gpio.txt although I'm not sure which ones and it'll be a different pinout for the upgraded processor in GTA02. I'm not sure wether you could connect a USB camera with a hacked USB cable with 3 or 4 1.5V batteries in line to provide power. If the NEOs battery is ~5V could you route wires from the battery terminals to the USB socket? therefore having a powered USB socket. You can, it's been discussed. Would be ugly. I'd sooner find some other wireless solution. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Ian Darwin wrote: coomac wrote: On 7/23/07, *Ian Darwin* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe so, but as has been pointed out, phonecams are banned in a lot of places, many of them businesses. Go buy an HP or Fuji (or whatever) camera with 5MP and optical zoom for a hundred bucks and wear it on the other hip. You'll be glad you did when you see the picture quality compared to a typical phonecam. Is the Neo aiming to be the next crackberry, made specifically for business users and a few stragglers from the general population? If so, there's no point in the discussion. However, many people have pointed out that a phone needs a keyboard to be a good business phone so the Neo must be shooting for a broader market. Fear not, FIC actually wants to sell lots of phones. The Neo1973 GTA02 will not have a camera, but FIC have said there will be many other models of phone running the OpenMoko distro. AFTER THERE IS WORKING BASIC SOFTWARE. It is a virtual certainty that some of these other phones will have cameras. Keyboards. Whatever the market wants. But later. I seem to remember a remark in one of (I think it was) Sean's mails. They do not just plan to make phones, he somewhere mentions that other products, where in their minds without phone capabilities. If I just could find it? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/23/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This phone wasn't initially designed for this project anyway was it? No one from FIC said anything about it, but somehow, a bunch of the news articles and blogs written about the phone promise a camera in phase 2. This is why I asked in the first place. We're stuck with this design for now. If you don't like the phone then I would suggest you help improve it (ie. take out a bank loan for the case modification lol). No need for snarky comments. Like it or not, non technical people make up the majority of consumers. These are people who are scared to death of doing a mod on their brand spanking new gadget and would instead purchase the gadget with that functionality built in. Anyhow, my intention isn't to argue about why this or that should be, but to figure out what is doable and what isn't, based on what is available and from people who know more about the project than I do. The list has helped immensely there. On 7/23/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BUT there is the chance that some kind of addon pack could be made for the GTA02 after its sold. Kill two birds with one stone. Great idea. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Has anyone...
...had their purchased phone arrive yet?? mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 23 Jul 2007, at 20:37, coomac wrote: No need for snarky comments. Like it or not, non technical people make up the majority of consumers. These are people who are scared to death of doing a mod on their brand spanking new gadget and would instead purchase the gadget with that functionality built in. Anyhow, my intention isn't to argue about why this or that should be, but to figure out what is doable and what isn't, based on what is available and from people who know more about the project than I do. The list has helped immensely there. It's just that we're lucky to have this chance of doing anything like this. The hardware is there and we have no control over it, so lets focus on the software, it will take a day or so to make a camera app work if it ever gets one. I get tired of reading about people criticising hardware they want to buy but which doesn't have one feature they want. If it doesn't have all of what you want you don't get one, simple as that. This phone will easily make up for lack of camera if the software is good. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Eric van Horssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mark Eichin wrote: It's not the megapixels that matter, it's the quality of the lens and the quality of the CCD/CMOS. Right. My simple version of this is Cameras have lenses - phones, for the most part, don't. This is why, for me, being able to do USB *host* is a killer feature, so I can take *real* pictures and caption and flickr them, without carrying around a laptop... Camera's with Bleutooth filetransfer would solve this problem. Yep they would. However, there are only 2 or 3 models in existance, and none of them are particularly good cameras (where approximately *all* digital cameras that already exist have a USB interface, and the FIC1973 GTA01 *can* do USB host, with a little tweaking...) and can solve the problem now :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Joshua Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% with Coomac. Sure it would be nice if we had a Digital SLR with us at all times but that is completely impractical. Unless you are some sort of weirdo chances are you are not going to be carrying that large camera around with you everywhere you go. How rude :-) And also unobservant - subcompact point-and-shoots are coming with 10MP sensors and 10x zoom lenses with IS these days, and they're about the size of the larger phones, and have *hugely* better quality than even the N90 - and lots of people *do* carry them everywhere. The point of a camera phone is for those cases where an SLR is not available. I am also in that whole 20-something college bracket and when I had my MDA (HTC Wizard) I used my camera on a near daily basis. The same goes for a lot of people I work with, go to school with etc etc. I hear so much talk on these lists about how this is supposed to be a mass market phone and crap like it is an iPhone killer, but none of that is ever gonna happen when you are catering to a niche market. Your mistake is, perhaps, *believing* any of that (this is a very enthusiastic community but not a hugely reality-based one :-) The GTA01 is absolutely not an iPhone killer in the short term (with over a million iPhones already sold) - but there are certainly some people for whom it solves problems that the iPhone can't touch (as mentioned, USB host is the big one for me...) Let's face it maybe 0.5% of people aren't allowed to bring phones with cameras to work. Where as I bet 20-30% of people can't live with out it and the rest just don't care. I think your (made-up, uncited?) statistics are failing to take into account that the people who can't bring cameras to work (a growing number) are going to be a disproportionately large percentage of the people who *actually pay for phones* and *want smartphones in the first place*... if you look at the link posted earlier, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/ it's more like 30% who can't have them, 15% who can't live without, and the remaining 55% who don't care... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02 / Good Addon-System needed with a chainable bus system
I think a good planed Addon-system should do the trick. Like the Wiki suggested there should be a spacer which fits into the back. Some kind of bus which can be daisy chained through all back parts and spacers. So it would be easy to develop a camera back and chain it to the bus. If the bus would be something like USB you could just buy an empty spacer in desired size and fit your USB device into with almost no knowledge and just little soldering. The I2C bus should also chained for our industrial friends. Pitfall: the chained USB bus would need the magic 5V still missing in the phone. Tim Newsom schrieb: On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:27, coomac wrote: Rather than alienate one group over the other, why not have something for both? A non camera version for those who don't need the feature as well as a camera version with the exact same specs for those who can't live without it? I mean, why have a chip with camera support if there are no plans to use if fully? Tag on a $50 difference or something. Problem solved. It won't be feasible in the near future if it involves a major holdup or deviation from the current product, but if it's doable, why not? Guys Gals... There have been talks of add on packs that let people increase thickness of the case and do things that were not really intended originally. Since we have a pretty strong idea that the GTA02 will not include a camera.. We can add it as a wishlist item for GTA03.. And no need to argue over it. BUT there is the chance that some kind of addon pack could be made for the GTA02 after its sold. In this case, a production molded back plate could be included so no drilling would be required. If its planned out right, these addon packs could be simply unscrew backplate, snap new addon pack down, screw on backplate, install new software. Now I will also be the first to say that it won't be this easy in the beginning... But it *could* eventually. For Instance, forget about connecting with the camera pins if they are not exposed and use something else, we have (maybe not optimal) I2C, Spi?.. But how about an option that doesn't require wires?.. Say bluetooth, wifi... Maybe use I2C to control the device and bluetooth to transfer the data.. The point is, that for now its not going to happen.. But think a little outside of the box for ways to make it happen as an option. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't like the tree style of discussion. It kind of makes sense on a mailing list. However, I find it unnatural and exhausting to navigate. Old school people who prefer threaded view have got the mailing list, I am of the strong opinion that we should go with a flat forum for accessibility. Nobody forces you to the tree-style view. Also every email client and newsreader can also show eveything in the flat webforum-like view. The difference is that here you got a *choice*. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Niels L. Ellegaard) wrote: Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a proper news reader. I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to create an nntp gateway. See the sympy group for an example That's what Gmane is actually about. And as a good exampple that it works, all my posting in this thread actually come from gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community on news.gmane.org via NNTP. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: OK, the forum is coming..]
Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to create an nntp gateway. I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support thread! all messages are ordered just by date. You're using Thunderbird, and it supports threading for mail as much as for nntp. Just click the small thread icon left over the message overview. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Couple of Questions
I am rolling around the idea of purchasing the developer unit, but I have a couple of questions: Is anyone using it on ATT, and what are your results?? When the GTA02 unit becomes available will there be and upgrade price to upgrade to the new board? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Has anyone...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...had their purchased phone arrive yet?? mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I haven't. I'm hoping to see a UPS tracking number first, though. I imagine that there's still some logistics being worked out and that phones are at least a couple of days away from leaving FIC in the US. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
On 23 Jul 2007, at 22:46, Donald Organ wrote: I am rolling around the idea of purchasing the developer unit, but I have a couple of questions: When the GTA02 unit becomes available will there be and upgrade price to upgrade to the new board? No upgrade discount, they decided against that. Instead they made the GTA01 cheaper. I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Has anyone...
guess thats a question on lots of people's minds ... we should just hang on ... being the first in any domain is difficult ... think, moko's done a great job about being open ... lets see how far the rabbit hole goes ;) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...had their purchased phone arrive yet?? mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web based forum. On 7/23/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The functionality is too close to a mailing list really... It would be another means of communication from the dark times of the internet which most developers, old people and nerds might love. It wouldn't help in any way to expand the community, though. We are NOT looking for a way to replace the mailing list. We want to ADD another channel of communication that not everyone has to like but would attract new people. Ortwin On 7/23/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about creating a google group ? You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it as a forum. Everybody is happy. Mickael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
No upgrade discount, they decided against that. Instead they made the GTA01 cheaper. I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. Has this been confirmed?? I dont want to buy it right now if I am not gonna be able to upgrade to the version with 802.11 wireless for anything more than $200. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
app idea
I feel almost stupid saying this, but there are quite a few people out there who are ringtone fanatics (personally, I can't understand paying 3.99 for a 30 second song clip... especially because you can't find one that's appropriate everywhere) to that end, what about a simple ringtone repository? simply put, you either download over the air, USB, or wifi, search and download from a library of CC and fair use tones. The next step is to put an onboard ringtone recorder/composer into the phone, and let people make their own free ringtones (and publish up to the repository) -- (I think we'd need a DMCA I'm the copyright holder thing to be legal... and warnings up the yin-yang: don't upload copyrighted material) it could probably even be web based, with a special browser plugin (secondary select (tap and hold?) then select make this sound my ringtone for .mp3, .ogg, or .aac files) When we're advertising, maybe we can make this a selling point... break free from your carrier's stupid fees, and quit paying for something that could be free, get your ringtone fix without breaking the bank, or they say you're getting a free phone, but is it really free? anyways, like I said, it feels a little lame suggesting this, but I think it could be big with the general populace. Thoughts? -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
Since there are no physical case changes, it would be great if they just offered the board for sale to those that have already purchased the GTA01 kit for a discounted price. I purchased the Neo Advanced, and I really can't afford to spend another 400-600+ on the newer version... Kyle On 7/23/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 23 Jul 2007, at 22:46, Donald Organ wrote: I am rolling around the idea of purchasing the developer unit, but I have a couple of questions: When the GTA02 unit becomes available will there be and upgrade price to upgrade to the new board? No upgrade discount, they decided against that. Instead they made the GTA01 cheaper. I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
ma, 2007-07-23 kello 18:10 -0400, Donald Organ kirjoitti: I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. Has this been confirmed?? I dont want to buy it right now if I am not gonna be able to upgrade to the version with 802.11 wireless for anything more than $200. No and frankly, I wouldn't rely on that option, for your price. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/23/07, Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joshua Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% with Coomac. Whoops, name fixed. SNIP the people who can't bring cameras to work (a growing number) are going to be a disproportionately large percentage of the people who *actually pay for phones* and *want smartphones in the first place*... You're right about business smart phones, but you're not taking nokia's symbian phones and their huge userbase into account. One glance at gsmarena (or any phone website) comments section will give you an idea of how large the non business users are. The phones all have cameras, even the E61 got one after the owners made a fuss about it... and this is the true business phone of the bunch. With nokia being the largest cell phone manufacturer, they are scratching a significant itch for a significant number of smart phone users. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/mobile_devices_who_decides/ it's more like 30% who can't have them, 15% who can't live without, and the remaining 55% who don't care... I don't know man. That poll only accounts for places where the company/school/whatever supplies the phone to their employees, not the general populace. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
Jeff Rush skrev: Hi Jeff! As I said... I have build the neo1973 qemu... but 'by hand'... It's a small build vs the mokomakefile build everything that's huge. - Lars, Yes, the onscreen keyboard does work, as in the GUI keyboard you click on with the mouse. I click in the upper-left box (white area, not icon) and the onscreen keyboard comes up in my QEMU image. Did not have that white box... compiled qemu with alsa sound support... probably a mistake... Now, when I stopped esd before starting qemu the keyboard works :-) More strange... the today app got it's icons, did not have them before (?!?). Once the today app did not start on boot... it feels a little random. Probably should rebuild qemu with no extra. - I can say that the ability to 'ssh' into the QEMU does work here, but it requires a few steps in the QEMU monitor each time you use it re usb_add gadget:1 that cannot be automated. The usb networking seams to demand a rebuild of the host kernel... I'm not so keen on that. Did try the tun/tap and user network stuff... But I don't believe it will work. That expect to emulate a ethernet nic and neo don't have an ethernet nic. Could probably build a neo kernel with ethernet, but then I think u-boot most go for a 'normal' rootfs... OK for my us... but then I'm back at setting up a crosscompile env for moko... ether a lot of hard experiments or using mokomakefile that will kill my machine (and then I still have to figure out how to make changes). I really would like a solution that works with network 'out of the box'. Ether a rootfs and kernel with ethernet support, or a hack to neo1973 qemu so it emulate a 'built in' usb-ethernet device that in turn talk to qemu user network and tun/tap interface. But I'm not sure I have understand the problem correctly... If I was I file a wishlist bug on neo1973 qemu. /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
Marco Barreno wrote: On Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 06:10:25PM -0400, thus spake Donald Organ: No upgrade discount, they decided against that. Instead they made the GTA01 cheaper. I think you may be able to keep the existing case, battery etc and get the GTA02 in board only form. Has this been confirmed?? I dont want to buy it right now if I am not gonna be able to upgrade to the version with 802.11 wireless for anything more than $200. Unfortunately, it seems unrealistic to me to think that they could sell the board for less than $200. The board is going to be by far the most expensive component, with the screen in second place and the battery coming third, most likely. Almost all of the development effort and hardware production costs go into the board; it must be at *least* 50% of the cost of the unit, and I'd guess more like 75-90%. Since the phone will be sold for $450, I would expect the board alone to sell for somewhere between $250 and $400, depending on how accurate my estimates are and how much FIC is willing to take a loss on board-only sales. well ... from my previous experiences, companies in the mobile domain know how to make their money ... dont think FIC is making a loss at all ... neither now nor will they ever at any point of time in the future ... even if they have lost a few dollars a piece on hardware ... they've already made it up on brand value ... international mkting is not cheap ... FIC has already decided how they are giving discounts to people who want to get GTA01 now and GTA02 when it's ready: they're selling GTA01 at a $150 discount. It would be really cool for us if they decided to give further discounts, but given the costs that surely go into the development, it doesn't seem likely. they are expecting applications and profitability from the current exercise ... our future discounts will depend on how well we perform :) I'm in the same position as you, by the way. If I thought they would sell the board for less than $200 I'd buy GTA01 right now. But I think it's unlikely, so I'm waiting until GTA02 comes out. Marco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 24 Jul 2007, at 00:09, Nkoli wrote: You're right about business smart phones, but you're not taking nokia's symbian phones and their huge userbase into account. One glance at gsmarena (or any phone website) comments section will give you an idea of how large the non business users are. The phones all have cameras, even the E61 got one after the owners made a fuss about it... and this is the true business phone of the bunch. With nokia being the largest cell phone manufacturer, they are scratching a significant itch for a significant number of smart phone users. Nokia are a brand, along with Samsung and Sony Ericsson they own the market. It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 00:06:55 Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote: Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web based forum. Are you sure ? I find personally a mailing is much easier. You get the messages with your regular mail, you can sort them to a special inbox folder to read them when you have time. Whereas a forum you need to start your web browser, generally wade through some pages to get to the location you want, log on, use some user interface that changes from forum to forum. Searching a mailing list is also easy : google or some searchable mail archive. Adding another channel is counter productive. Focus all data in one location and optimize that medium to the max. W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
I already use my browser to read my email. I use Gmail to handle the mail from my domain. I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day job. The argument that you have to start your browser seems thin to me. What is a mail reader if not an application as complex as a browser? A forum allows the _writer_ to sort the posting. I have yet to find an email filtering program that does works in a more than rudimentary fashion. A forum can be searched for keywords in much the same way that an email list can be searched. Posts stay on a forum. Much of the email on this list goes into the bit bucket for me. Advertising? Marketing? We don't have a working phone yet. --Dan On 7/23/07, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 24 July 2007 00:06:55 Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote: Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web based forum. Are you sure ? I find personally a mailing is much easier. You get the messages with your regular mail, you can sort them to a special inbox folder to read them when you have time. Whereas a forum you need to start your web browser, generally wade through some pages to get to the location you want, log on, use some user interface that changes from forum to forum. Searching a mailing list is also easy : google or some searchable mail archive. Adding another channel is counter productive. Focus all data in one location and optimize that medium to the max. W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Couple of Questions
Donald Organ wrote: I am rolling around the idea of purchasing the developer unit, but I have a couple of questions: Is anyone using it on ATT, and what are your results?? Others have addressed the upgrade issue, so I won't. The phone will work with ATT or T-Mobile in the US (or any other GSM provider). However, you shouldn't count on in working at all until the GTA02 unit is released, as this is a *development* unit. -casey ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/23/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know. If done right, it just might grab a good chunk of the market without needing telcos. If anything, Apple has shown that people are willing to drop $500 - $600 on a phone they can fall in love with. In the US at least. It may not be so with the rest of the world but that remains to be seen. Following Apple's revolution of the phone industry, the Neo has the perfect opportunity to grab that group of people who would have bought iPhone v1.0 if it wasn't tied to ATT or the US. Add to that business users, linux users, geeks the world over and all around gadget freaks and we may be talking a sizable market. FIC is a solid brand name. It may not be tied to the phone industry, but neither was Apple and look just how much that affected its market share. The key is advertising, advertising, advertising. Viral, persistent, in-your-face advertising. Something simple, persistent, but not obnoxious. Get Steven Colbert, Conan O'Brien, Ellen Degeneres, Opera (yah THAT Opera) and other figureheads in the US and other countries talking about it and this phone will really go places. Ok, I'm dreaming really big here, but this phone has so much potential it's not even funny. With all the enthusiasm on this list, I can't be the only one. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web based forum. Are you sure ? I find personally a mailing is much easier. You get the messages with your regular mail, you can sort them to a special inbox folder to read them when you have time. Whereas a forum you need to start your web browser, generally wade through some pages to get to the location you want, log on, use some user interface that changes from forum to forum. Searching a mailing list is also easy : google or some searchable mail archive. Adding another channel is counter productive. Focus all data in one location and optimize that medium to the max. W I'd have to say that for the casual or occasional user, there are significant advantages to a web forum. For me, monitoring an active email list like openmoko in my email client is a fairly sizable undertaking - there are many emails per day to look through. I take time several times a day to look through these, or just mark the folder 'read'. If I were only want to look at the forum once every few weeks, then subscribing to the list would be overkill. On the other hand, in order to participate in the list you need to subscribe. So web-search only users are in effect barred from posting. Even if our casual users wanted 70-80 emails a day for something they only use once in a while, its still a hassle to set up if you don't know about email filtering and etc. Lots of people don't. Compare this to the effort needed to visit slashdot. You register once, and you never need to worry about it again. Visit every day or every 6 months, doesn't matter. The other aspect is that you are putting your real email address out there on the internet for lots of people to look at. This means its an excellent place for spammers to harvest email accounts. With a forum your personal data is more anonymous. Plus there is potential for other social networking style things like user profiles - what users are working on, etc. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
On 7/23/07, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/23/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED]https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there are quite a few people out there who are ringtone fanatics (personally, I can't understand paying 3.99 for a 30 second song clip... I'm with you 100% here. An app that allows users to make their own ringtones for shareage would be great. Throw in the ability to use a full length song stored on the phone, the option of offsetting the beginning of the song to n seconds and the ability to share that 30 sec clip with friends who wish they had a Neo ( :-P) and you've got a killer app. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.orghttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community well, um, I just had a thought on this too... I don't know about other places, but in the US the telco operators make a sizeable chunk of change on ringtones, if this functionality is straight out of the box, the chances that we're going to get picked up by a major operator just hit nil (I'm having nightmare visions of crippled neos being offered) maybe, for the good of the project, this should be developed outside of the openmoko project... Once the phone gets picked up by operators, then we can go big with this feature (yeah, I think it could be a killer app for a phone as long as the interface to create a ringtone rocks(joe and suzy consumer aren't going to want to deal with frequency/duration data)) -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 24 Jul 2007, at 01:21, Nkoli wrote: If done right, it just might grab a good chunk of the market without needing telcos. If anything, Apple has shown that people are willing to drop $500 - $600 on a phone they can fall in love with. In the US at least. It may not be so with the rest of the world but that remains to be seen. People complain about the price of the iPhone, people are used to subsidised handsets. The iPhone isn't off contract, it's ATT. FIC is a solid brand name. It may not be tied to the phone industry, but neither was Apple and look just how much that affected its market share. The key is advertising, advertising, advertising. Viral, persistent, in-your-face advertising. Something simple, persistent, but not obnoxious. Get Steven Colbert, Conan O'Brien, Ellen Degeneres, Opera (yah THAT Opera) and other figureheads in the US and other countries talking about it and this phone will really go places. Ok, I'm dreaming really big here, but this phone has so much potential it's not even funny. With all the enthusiasm on this list, I can't be the only one. Mass market is dumb phones. Smartphones are a small percent of sales. Even Apple doesn't expect a large market share. Also, this phone is global. Each country has a different policy, so you can't use a strategy based on the US mobile phone market (which is still catching up with Europe and Asia). Until there's a 3G model and translations of the software it's going to be a North American/ European product. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.
First off I wanted to see if anyone shares my opinion that a multi-touch screen is needed, if at all possible, to make the Neo truly revolutionary. It will both cut down on screen space used for UI and make for a more efficient and intuitive interface. It would even help beyond user input, it could feel itself being put into a pocket for instance and go into sleep mode or what ever other crazy ideas you can think of. It makes me wonder why there isn't as much enthusiasm around it as with the camera, which brings me to my next question: Is there some sort of patent issue here? I wouldn't think so, considering I've seen over 5 separate entities developing and using the technology. My next question, which really isn't a question; it's more like a comment, is: Why not a slightly larger screen size, I think right now it's on the verge of being too small. It would be fine if it were a simple phone with calendar, planar, and email, but this device is capable of web surfing and video which, in my opinion, warrents a larger screen size. Last queston/comment: Why so much wasted space. The case should be rectangular to optimize space with the rectangular screen. -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Additional: Re: Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.
I truly believe in this quote, I also found it on openmoko.com. Both multi-touch and a minimalist case truly supports this ideal: The most profound technologies are those that disappear. They weave themselves into the fabric of everyday life until they are indistinguishable from it. Mark Weiser -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Additional: Re: Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.
On 7/23/07, Cailan Halliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I truly believe in this quote, I also found it on openmoko.com. Both multi-touch and a minimalist case truly supports this ideal: snip -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ok, here's what's up: the phone body we're using was a device that was being designed by FIC for another customer. From traffic on this list, t seems that the deal with that other customer fell through. I'm guessing that one of the reasons FIC was willing to go through with the whole thing was to make SOMETHING from the investment they made from that other customer (It seemed like a lot of dev work had gone into the system already in November when this was first announced) yeah, with what this project has become, the hardware is sub-optimal. The goal now is to have enough of a positive response that someone wants to pick up the hardware development costs for the second generation device (or maybe that's why openmoko is now its own company). Anyways, it's about 6 months past the time to make such major changes, we've got to either make the current device work for us, and a whole lot of other people, or we've got to peg our hopes on the next device. Personally, I'm of the make it work camp, and I think with the team Sean's put together (dude, harald, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know) and the community we've got, we can make it happen -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Cancel order?
I ordered a Neo1973, but I because of work assignments that I got today, I don't think I will be able to work on it for several months. (things are crazy at my day job) Is there a way to cancel an order? ==Dan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 02:08:32 Daniel Robinson wrote: I already use my browser to read my email. I use Gmail to handle the mail from my domain. I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day job. great for you but AFAIK almost all ISP offer reading mail from their web page so GMAIL, hotmail, yahoo etc are all obsolete. The argument that you have to start your browser seems thin to me. What is a mail reader if not an application as complex as a browser? well most mail readers are integrated in your desktop and impose far less overhead when checking for email. Also you can do nice filtering and other scanning for stuff. Also YOU control your email box and not the application that your 'web'-mail provider has made available to you. A forum allows the _writer_ to sort the posting. I have yet to find an email filtering program that does works in a more than rudimentary fashion. A forum can be searched for keywords in much the same way that an email list can be searched. I do not get that ... what do you mean by the 'writer' and sorting ? my mail application (Kontact of KDE) allows searching for ANY data in ANY part of the mail (body subject etc) Posts stay on a forum. Much of the email on this list goes into the bit bucket for me. Advertising? Marketing? We don't have a working phone yet. Well most mailing lists collect the email too. All mailing lists I have subscribed to have a page on which you can scan through the archive. W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Has anyone...
Am Montag, 23. Juli 2007 21:41 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ...had their purchased phone arrive yet?? Believe me, no need to ask. If that happens you will see a lot of messages with yeeepeee and smilies arround. :-) Arndt PS: ATTENTION! AQTTENTION! Neo1973 has lost his innocence. If you read Harald's blog you know it already. Neo is a LADY KILLER. ;-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/23/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People complain about the price of the iPhone, ...yet upwards of a hundred thousand stood in line on day one to buy the thing. Dude, this is unprecedented. The phone shook the US industry silly and that industry is still recovering. Just imagine if Apple had had the sense to do a worldwide release (ala PS3, Wii) with no contract requirements (they're paying full price anyway, so no need for the ATT shackle). The phone industry that we know and love might just have imploded from the effect. Point is, the iPhone has gotten Jack and Jill Average _talking_ about smart phones... err make that touchscreen (semi) smartphones with nifty eye candy. They may not quite understand what it is, since the iPhone only gives them a tiny glimpse, but they now know there can be more to a phone than the crap free phones their telco offers. Apple surely understands the few things they did wrong by now and will fix those problems in iPhone Mini. Before they do, the phone that can capitalize on this opening will make a killing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.
Yes I agree with all your points. I suspect the Apple patents are on the interaction techniques, and possibly on some specific hardware. Obviously multi-touch existed a few years ago (FingerWorks was around, and I think the FTIR method was invented even earlier). We will see how the lawsuits turn out, which patents Apple can defend and which they cannot. (Lawsuits would seem to be inevitable given the flurry of activity which the iPhone has provoked.) However some of the interactions which only involve one finger on the iPhone, should still be possible with a conventional touchscreen (for example, flicking to scroll a page). A physically larger screen would be nice to read, and I personally would put up with the larger overall size (especially if it makes up for it by being thinner); but people have their stereotypes about how big a phone is too big, and something larger than the iPhone will not sell as well. (If people could just get away from holding the whole thing up to their ears like a brick, it would help. Maybe use a bluetooth headset? but I don't use one myself either.) On 7/23/07, Cailan Halliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off I wanted to see if anyone shares my opinion that a multi-touch screen is needed, if at all possible, to make the Neo truly revolutionary. It will both cut down on screen space used for UI and make for a more efficient and intuitive interface. It would even help beyond user input, it could feel itself being put into a pocket for instance and go into sleep mode or what ever other crazy ideas you can think of. It makes me wonder why there isn't as much enthusiasm around it as with the camera, which brings me to my next question: Is there some sort of patent issue here? I wouldn't think so, considering I've seen over 5 separate entities developing and using the technology. My next question, which really isn't a question; it's more like a comment, is: Why not a slightly larger screen size, I think right now it's on the verge of being too small. It would be fine if it were a simple phone with calendar, planar, and email, but this device is capable of web surfing and video which, in my opinion, warrents a larger screen size. Last queston/comment: Why so much wasted space. The case should be rectangular to optimize space with the rectangular screen. -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko and Funambol not working together?
On 7/23/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't find the logo at any date (didn't search all tho) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.funambol.com/opensource/partners.html Logo was there a week ago, I too saw the logo. regards VK ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image
Charles Lohr wrote: Since I don't really know the community, just say when and I can join the devel lists and move to that. (Or we can just do the discussion off-list) And -- with regards to the log file; the log file seems to only contain what the standard output provides. Making all in intl make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' Making all in intl-java make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf make[4]: *** [libintl.jar] Error 1 make[4]: Leaving directory I am curious what your GettextResource.java is. Since it's possible that the problem is in the GettextResource.java file or my java selection. Hmm, just for comparison I'm attaching a copy (log.*) of a successful compile, along with the execution script (run.*) it built to do so. I can't easily provide the .java file because I set the option in build/conf/local.conf to remote the workfiles after every build: INHERIT += rm_work This reduces the diskspace requirements for a build from very roughly 36 GB down to 7 GB. The failing line is interesting... `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf It implies it is trying to interpret the -cf option to the jar command as a class. The jar command here does accept options without the leading dash. Tracking this back, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/Projects/OpenMoko $ which jar /usr/bin/jar [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/Projects/OpenMoko $ equery belongs /usr/bin/jar [ Searching for file(s) /usr/bin/jar in *... ] dev-java/java-config-2.0.33-r1 (/usr/bin/jar - run-java-tool) Is this the version of the java-config package you have? Does your jar command indeed permit non-dash options? -Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ which jar /usr/bin/jar [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ equery belongs /usr/bin/jar [ Searching for file(s) /usr/bin/jar in *... ] dev-java/java-config-2.0.33-r1 (/usr/bin/jar - run-java-tool) And -- I'd have to say it doesn't support non-dashed stuff: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ jar cf Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ jar -cf Unrecognized option: -cf Could not create the Java virtual machine. :-/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No response since YES_I_DO?
I haven't gotten any response or been charged on my credit card since I replied YES_I_DO. My order number is 2012...oh crap...isn't that when the Mayan calendar ends and the World as we know it ceases to exist? Just my luck! :-P Has anyone else NOT received any response at all yet since YES_I_DO? Cheers...Cassj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No response since YES_I_DO?
Hello Cassj, Yeah I haven't received a response yet either and I'm #2018. Thanks, Tim On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 23:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't gotten any response or been charged on my credit card since I replied YES_I_DO. My order number is 2012...oh crap...isn't that when the Mayan calendar ends and the World as we know it ceases to exist? Just my luck! :-P Has anyone else NOT received any response at all yet since YES_I_DO? Cheers...Cassj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Nkoli wrote: FIC is a solid brand name. It may not be tied to the phone industry, FIC is tied to the phone industry, they may not have a market share in the US or Europe but they have in parts of Asia ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch, ...
Obviously multi-touch existed a few years ago (FingerWorks was around Note that Apple *bought* FingerWorks for this technology, and presumably the associated patents. (I have some of the FingerWorks keyboards, they're a great technology on the gesturing side, but as an experienced touch-typist, they're *awful* as keyboards - I think the tech are much more suited to the iPhone than it ever was for normal keyboards, having tried both...) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image
Moin,
Am Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:11:32 -0400 schrieb Charles Lohr:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ jar cf
Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ jar -cf
Unrecognized option: -cf
Could not create the Java virtual machine.
:-/
Which are _exactly_ the responses you'd get when calling java (the
virtual machine) instead of jar (the java archive tool). You can
confirm this by calling jar -version: The real jar will say Illegal
option: e, while java will print out its version identification.
Please look at both
${HOME}/.gentoo/java-config-2/current-user-vm/bin/jar
and
/etc/java-config-2/current-system-vm/bin/jar
as one of these tools is what run-java-tool is going to run.
--
Henryk Plötz
Grüße aus Berlin
~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~
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Re: Cancel order?
Daniel Robinson wrote: I ordered a Neo1973, but I because of work assignments that I got today, I don't think I will be able to work on it for several months. (things are crazy at my day job) Is there a way to cancel an order? ==Dan (Also) see: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ#I.27ve_duplicated_orders_by_accident.2C_how_can_I_cancel_one.3F I've duplicated orders by accident, how can I cancel one? Please reply to the mail generated by Request Tracker and inform us of the order that needs to be canceled, along with the Ticket ID. A representative will take care of you from there. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No response since YES_I_DO?
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 23:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else NOT received any response at all yet since YES_I_DO? I'm in the 1900's, and I haven't heard anything. They've assured us that they aren't fulfilling orders in order of the RT ticket number, so I guess there's no need to be alarmed. :') ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
