Re: Battery time

[John Locke]

Hello,

I was running Qtopia for 5 or 6 weeks, and under that, I was getting
about 5 hours of time tops, whether I used the phone or not. The battery
indicator has 5 bars, and after a good 4 hours, there would still be 3
bars left (60%, or so you might think). But by that point, the power
dropped very quickly and the phone would just shut off.

I managed to flash OpenMoko on the Neo last weekend, even with my broken
Aux button (had to take off the faceplate and carefully hold the contact
in place, but managed to do it...). I just now got in after having it
unplugged for 7 hours, and the battery still shows mostly full. I had
set the power management to "Dim Only", and with that alone OpenMoko
seems to be doing much better than Qtopia. I also notice that the phone
is not so hot--Qtopia seems to have it running full power almost all the
time.

Other notes:

Qtopia (Image from around October 7)
* Phone seems to stop working after a few days, and needs to be
rebooted. There's no indication when this has happened--you just can't
make or receive calls anymore.

* Rebooting didn't actually work--I nearly always had to remove the
battery to reboot.

* There was a delay in audio switching, both on outgoing and incoming
calls. I never heard the first few words people answered with--I had to
start talking when I heard the audio switch, without knowing whether I
had actually reached the right person. You never heard a remote line
ring--the audio would switch after the call was answered, whether by a
person or voicemail.

* SMS is beautiful, when the message arrives when the phone was on.

* There's no voicemail indicator--but I received empty text messages
when there was a new voicemail, and again after clearing the message.

* Phone numbers on the SIM card showed up in the address book.

* You can't redial a number or pick a number out of the call history to
dial (I think it assumes you have a hard button for that).

* Dialing a number in the address book works fine, though the button to
do it is hard to press with a finger (most other things in Qtopia worked
easily without the pen)

* You get an echo sound at first, but can use alsamixer to turn down the
sidetone and then the phone sounds perfectly normal.

* No mediaplayer, feed reader, or all the other cool stuff that's in
OpenMoko.

* Keyboard auto-completes far too easily (and wrong most of the time)
but the zoom keys are actually usable with fingers.

* No terminal. Ugh.

* GPRS doesn't work. Didn't get my bluetooth headset working, either.

* Ring profiles work great--easy to switch between vibrate only and
audible ring.



OpenMoko (Scaredycat image from November 1)
* I get frequent messages indicating that it's just associated with the
GSM network.

* No audible ring, vibrate only.

* Panel crashes about once a day, necessitating a reboot.

* Rebooting works (if the Today application hasn't crashed).

* OS still seems less stable, everything still seems to crash more than
Qtopia.

* Audio switches immediately, much more normal for making and receiving
calls--you hear the phone ring at the other end.

* No SMS, or voicemail indicator.

* Much easier to dial, hang-up, do other basic calling tasks.

* Dialing from history works.

* Dialing from address book mostly works, but not if there's punctuation
in the phone number (I copied my Evolution addressbook over, and most of
the entries don't work unless I strip out dashes/parentheses)

* Haven't tried GPRS or Bluetooth yet.

* Sound quality has a bad echo--haven't found the appropriate sidetone
control in Alsamixer yet.

* Mediaplayer has come a long way! If I could get it to seek within a
track, it would be all I need.

* Keyboard is very difficult to use with fingers alone. In general, you
need the pen more with OpenMoko.


All in all? I'd have to say I like using OpenMoko better, it acts more
like a normal phone, the battery life seems more reasonable (though I
haven't run it long enough to tell you more about battery life). But I'm
still having the sidetone issues, no ringer, and it still seems to crash
a little too much. And the lack of SMS is a bit of a problem, since I
get pages from my servers (though it's nice and quiet without it!) And a
recent update hosed most of the menu, so I can't get to the feedreader
or terminal at the moment...

Cheers,
John


Oliver Uvman wrote:
> Hi!
>
> So for the longest time, I've been worrying about the battery life of
> the Neo. Before I buy the GTA02, it is something I'd love to know. The
> wiki has entries talking about which power management things are
> implemented and which aren't, and I assume this will increase over
> time. On the iPhone page, the Battery row of the table says 8h talk on
> iPhone and "replaceable 1.7 Ah battery charged via USB" on the Neo -
> not very extensive info.
>
> So, since many of you seem to have Neos now, and since the dialer app
> is (supposedly) working now, how's the phone for real-world usage? How
> long between charges for *you*? Wh

Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[Randall Mason]

I don't see why you don't do this with bluetooth.  If you have a headset
that you will always have in your bag or on your person (ie. it doesn't get
left behind with your phone if you leave) you can run this script on your
Neo.  You just have it constantly pinging the headset and testing the rssi
of the connection.  When it goes below a point, have it play a siren ring
tone.

http://www.goitexpert.com/entry.cfm?entry=Use-Your-Bluetooth-Cell-Phone-as-a-Proximity-Card-for-your-Laptop


It seems to work for me.  For my phone/dongle combination, I would probably
set the distance at a 0 or a -5 for the minimum RSSI before making a siren
noise.

For the script in the link, you would not have anything for NEAR_CMD and
FAR_CMD="mpg123 siren.mp3" for example.

Does this sound feasible?  It could give you an excuse to get a bluetooth
headset :-).  Of course ,then again, if your headset runs out of batteries
then your phone will start alerting everybody on the train while you
struggle to kill the looping background process :-).

Randall

On 11/8/07, Henryk Plötz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Moin,
>
> Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson:
>
> > ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way
> > to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are
> > free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters?
>
> It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just
> that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You
> should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular
> intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact.
> (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo
> buzzer or vibrator.)
>
> In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the
> Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already
> had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different
> context).
>
> The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band,
> but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no
> Wifi). But it's small and very low power.
>
> --
> Henryk Plötz
> Grüße aus Berlin
> ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~
>
> ___
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Greetings

[Tomi N/A]

Hi everyone,

I just joined the list after having read the last month or so worth of
archives and can only say...I'm simply not buying a phone until I can
buy the first Neo, one that comes equipped with WiFi. I've never paid
for a phone more than 15 euros (usually signing a yearly contract
instead), but I'm willing to spend a couple of hundred euros for a
computing platform packed into a phone form factor and almost
unprecedented level of integration into it's environment (touch
screen, GPS, GPRS, GSM, WiFi, accelerometers).

Also, I think openbeacon is a great product and would like to see
something like that in a future version of Neo, the use case being
attaching cheap RFID tags to my keys, my wallet etc. so that Neo could
detect moving away from the marks and could take action (beep, record
last location, whatever). From what I've read, it seems that
openbeacon is limited to a relatively small (<10cm) range: I'd like it
to be more in the range of a meter.

I am a developer, spending a lot of my time working with java and
would very much like to see some kind of java running on the device
both as a door opener to a see of existing applications (e.g. e-book
readers) and so that I could use my knowledge and motivation to
produce new applications for the Neo.

Cheers,
Tomislav

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Re: Let's move on to other issues

[Michael Shiloh]

Evgeny Ginzburg wrote:

Ron Jeffries wrote:

We have beaten the 850 Mhz issue to death.
Likewise...
"Apple iPhone form factor and GUI is cool"
and
"Oh my God, Google's Gphone is the end
of civilization (and OpenMoko).

Let's shift our group energy to helping
the OpenMoko team make this a killer
open source phone + PDA product.

Remember that time to market is vital.
That means the first iteration will mainly
appeal to ROW (rest of world, outside USA),
but since we know FIC is working the 850 Mhz
issue, the US version should
arrive say 90 days later,

Focus, focus focus. We'll overcome this glitch

No more whining! 

Thanks Ron
For couple of last days thouse discussions don't made my reading 
expirience better.

I just prefer to made all of messsages from thread redad and move on.
IMHO there lot of to do on community side.
Lets make the next move

Regards
Evgeny



Thank you, everyone, for your support. We'll do the best we can to help 
you help us so that we all may have the devices we want.


Michael

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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[Henryk Plötz]

Moin,

Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson:

> ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way
> to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are
> free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters?

It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just
that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You
should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular
intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact.
(There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo
buzzer or vibrator.)

In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the
Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already
had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different
context).

The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band,
but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no
Wifi). But it's small and very low power.

-- 
Henryk Plötz
Grüße aus Berlin
~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~

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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[kenneth marken]

On Friday 09 November 2007 00:15:09 AVee wrote:
> On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote:
> > > what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my
> > > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or
> > > external device) when it moves out of range.
> >
> > How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing
> > is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget
> > that aswell
>
> You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise
> when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still
> being within hearing distance.
>

thats basically the approach that sonyericsson took with their bluetooth 
watch. if said watch lost contact with the phone, it would vibrate to tell 
the wearer about it.

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Doug Sutherland]

I forgot to mention, with the modules I have looked at and 
also worked with, you send a command over the serial 
port to switch bands. That is all. Regarding the board 
design dilemma, I suppose that means the antenna as is
probably part of the pcb board is not tuned to be quad 
band. It must be possible because thousands of other 
phones work that way.

  -- Doug

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Doug Sutherland]

You should not have to switch firmware for the different bands.
That would be insanity. A quad band module should be able to
use one image for everything. That apparently isn't the case at
the moment, but it should be, and hopefully they are working
towards that end. Not sure what the deal is with calypso but
I have looked very closely at several other quad band modules
and there is none of this problem. Check out for example the 
telit modules and the mult-tech modules. They are likely more 
expensive but they definitely do quad band and they don't 
need different firmware for different bands.

http://www.multitech.com/PRODUCTS/Families/SocketModemEDGE/
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=66_68

Load different firmware to travel? WTF? Dear FIC please work 
on quad band with single firmware. If calypso is problematic for 
this then please ditch it and get another module, there are many 
many to choose from and gsm serial code is standard so there 
should not be a huge number of changes required.

I noticed that TI is very secretive and protective of their cell 
technology. I am starting to think that it's a bad choice. I have
all the docs for the above two modules and everything is well
documented and ready to go. They both have direct antenna 
connector, although the telit surface mount modules allow you 
to make part of the pcb board the antenna. 

  -- Doug

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Ted Lemon]

On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 23:46 +0100, AVee wrote:
> I think it whould help an awfull lot, it would allow you to switch
> firmware 
> before leaving to an 850 or 900 area. In a lot af cases that will
> involve a 
> air travel and a somewhat longer stay in the 'other frequency' area.
> If it 
> could be just a build option I also can imagine a bit of software
> which makes 
> the switch trivial.

I wish it were so, but what I mean by a "build option" is that they put
a different part on the board if you want 850 vs. 900.   Which I think
is what was proposed.



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Battery time

[Oliver Uvman]

Hi!

So for the longest time, I've been worrying about the battery life of the
Neo. Before I buy the GTA02, it is something I'd love to know. The wiki has
entries talking about which power management things are implemented and
which aren't, and I assume this will increase over time. On the iPhone page,
the Battery row of the table says 8h talk on iPhone and "replaceable 1.7 Ah
battery charged via USB" on the Neo - not very extensive info.

So, since many of you seem to have Neos now, and since the dialer app is
(supposedly) working now, how's the phone for real-world usage? How long
between charges for *you*? What do *you* do with it during "normal usage"?

Cheers,
Oliver
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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[AVee]

On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote:
> > what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my
> > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or
> > external device) when it moves out of range.
>
> How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing
> is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget
> that aswell

You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise 
when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still 
being within hearing distance. 

Another option would be to buy one of these personal GSM jammers and program 
the Neo to make a noise when it finds a network. But that approach might have 
some disadvantages ;-)

AVee

-- 
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[Jeff Andros]

there was another one... it was a pair of little metal boxes... you stuck
one to the object... the other one would sound an alarm if you walked away

On 11/8/07, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jeff Andros wrote:
> > Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on
> > their site... look around, they're out there
>
> It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain
> range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the
> software for the gadget was Windows-only.
>
> -id
>
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-- 
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[ian douglas]

Jeff Andros wrote:
Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on 
their site... look around, they're out there


It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain 
range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the 
software for the gadget was Windows-only.


-id

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Doug Sutherland]

> > The only reason USA picked non-standard frequencies was because they
> > had already licensed the 900 and 1800 MHz bands to something else.
>
> Just totaly useless curiousity, but does anyone know what these bands are
used
> for in the US?

I don't know about 1800 but 915Mhz is in the ISM (Industrial, Scientific,
Medical)
band and there are 900Mhz cordless phones, wireless speakers, and other
consumer
products around this frequency. 1800Mhz is not in the ISM but may be
allocated
elsewhere.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf
http://www.panix.com/clay/scanning/frequencies.html

  -- Doug



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[AVee]

On Wednesday 07 November 2007 21:39, Tommi Virtanen wrote:
> The only reason USA picked non-standard frequencies was because they
> had already licensed the 900 and 1800 MHz bands to something else.

Just totaly useless curiousity, but does anyone know what these bands are used 
for in the US?

-- 
Endless Loop, n.:
see Loop, Endless.
Loop, Endless, n.:
see Endless Loop.

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[AVee]

On Thursday 08 November 2007 17:14, Ted Lemon wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 03:44 +0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>
> Even if you have a build option for 850 vs. 900, that's not a good
> solution - I want a phone that works everywhere, not a phone that works
> everywhere close to me.   

I think it whould help an awfull lot, it would allow you to switch firmware 
before leaving to an 850 or 900 area. In a lot af cases that will involve a 
air travel and a somewhat longer stay in the 'other frequency' area. If it 
could be just a build option I also can imagine a bit of software which makes 
the switch trivial.
However, the issue appears to involve hardware as well, so I don't have high 
hopes for that. But maybe thet manage to get a jumper on the board or 
something...

AVee

-- 
AMAZING BUT TRUE ...
If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end
across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful.

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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[andy selby]

> what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my
> wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or
> external device) when it moves out of range.

How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing
is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget
that aswell

> it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple 
> technology for
> measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice

Failing that, why don't you try the simple technology called the
lanyard and carrying pouch that came with the neo.
Since my neo sometimes doesn't register the sim card and has crap
battery life (thanks qtopia) it sits on my desk.

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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[Jeff Andros]

On 11/8/07, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my
> wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or
> external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any
> fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for
> measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice



Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their
site... look around, they're out there

-- 
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: i'm going to lose my neo....

[Florent Delvaille]

My idea was an application to : when you lost your Neo, send a "special" SMS
with the cellular phone of a friend, to your Neo. The goal is that the Neo
will answer the coordinates X and Y with GPS. Maybe in the future transform
coordinates to an real adress...

2007/11/8, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in
> June
>
> i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that
> will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on
> it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i
> want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left
> it behind
>
> what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my
> wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or
> external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any
> fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for
> measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice
>
> ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way
> to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are
> free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters?
>
> of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could
> lose
>
> ___
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
Florent Delvaille
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i'm going to lose my neo....

[Robin Paulson]

i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June

i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that
will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on
it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i
want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left
it behind

what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my
wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or
external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any
fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for
measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice

ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way
to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are
free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters?

of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose

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Re: highly offtopic but oh so fun :D

[Doug Sutherland]

More phunnies
http://www.clipstr.com/videos/ConanIPhoneCommercialItDoesEverything/


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Re: Let's move on to other issues

[Evgeny Ginzburg]

Ron Jeffries wrote:

We have beaten the 850 Mhz issue to death.
Likewise...
"Apple iPhone form factor and GUI is cool"
and
"Oh my God, Google's Gphone is the end
of civilization (and OpenMoko).

Let's shift our group energy to helping
the OpenMoko team make this a killer
open source phone + PDA product.

Remember that time to market is vital.
That means the first iteration will mainly
appeal to ROW (rest of world, outside USA),
but since we know FIC is working the 850 Mhz
issue, the US version should
arrive say 90 days later,

Focus, focus focus. We'll overcome this glitch

No more whining! 

Thanks Ron
For couple of last days thouse discussions don't made my reading 
expirience better.

I just prefer to made all of messsages from thread redad and move on.
IMHO there lot of to do on community side.
Lets make the next move

Regards
Evgeny

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highly offtopic but oh so fun :D

[kenneth marken]

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071108

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Alan McSwain]

Mason...

I think we are all terribly frustrated with the events of the last few  
days and I think this frustration is amplified by how much we all  
desire to see OpenMoko to succeed.


We all want the perfect smartphone.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:08 AM, "Randall Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I want to apologize for this post.  This post has nothing to do with  
community.  It is just insulting to many people.  I was wrong to  
post this and I hope the people who felt insulted will accept my  
apology.  Stupid posts like mine are something that just drive  
people apart and that is NOT community.  Sometimes I wish I could  
have never said something.  Now is one of those times.


Randall

On 11/8/07, Randall Mason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?

GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.   
It is run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not  
work in the US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global  
Positioning System.


How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones,  
GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone?   
How did you convince your company to start these projects?  Why was  
Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because  
of hardware layout not enough?  How do people decide that they want  
quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they  
would want them (besides "wow, quad band works everywhere, right?  
Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!")?



On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our
development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in
remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any
possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in
to an existing product line.
Thats a fact not a wine.

I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it.
Our products need a  gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and  it  
cant

wait past January 2008.
If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is  
released.


This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever
shifting timetables and secondly,  too much risk when the rug is  
pulled
from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US  frequency  
bands,

while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a
development kit that  might meet our development scenario -- (about  
just).

Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just
became a no-no.

Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till
now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a  
working

state within the next year here in the USA.
All of luck with OpenMoko.

Bye.





Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
>> In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a  
complaint

>> or a whine.
>> It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks  
my

>> project in my company until I find something else.
> Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being  
evaluated,

> i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is
> because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list.
>
>> You left out one important part in your mail below.
> No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding
> the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it.


Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it  
only

makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing
all the features that will work..



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Randall Mason]

I want to apologize for this post.  This post has nothing to do with
community.  It is just insulting to many people.  I was wrong to post this
and I hope the people who felt insulted will accept my apology.  Stupid
posts like mine are something that just drive people apart and that is NOT
community.  Sometimes I wish I could have never said something.  Now is one
of those times.

Randall

On 11/8/07, Randall Mason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?
>
> GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.  It is
> run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not work in the
> US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System.
>
> How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS,
> and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone?  How did you
> convince your company to start these projects?  Why was Michael's initial
> post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not
> enough?  How do people decide that they want quad band phones without
> knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides "wow,
> quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never
> have to think!")?
>
> On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our
> > development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in
> > remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any
> > possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in
> > to an existing product line.
> > Thats a fact not a wine.
> >
> > I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it.
> > Our products need a  gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and  it cant
> > wait past January 2008.
> > If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is
> > released.
> >
> > This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever
> > shifting timetables and secondly,  too much risk when the rug is pulled
> > from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US  frequency bands,
> > while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a
> > development kit that  might meet our development scenario -- (about
> > just).
> > Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just
> > became a no-no.
> >
> > Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till
> > now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working
> >
> > state within the next year here in the USA.
> > All of luck with OpenMoko.
> >
> > Bye.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
> > >> In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint
> > >> or a whine.
> > >> It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my
> > >> project in my company until I find something else.
> > > Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated,
> > > i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is
> > > because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list.
> > >
> > >> You left out one important part in your mail below.
> > > No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding
> > > the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it.
> >
> >
> > Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only
> > makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing
> > all the features that will work..
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Alan McSwain]

Sorry. I was unclear. I was thinking from apples perspective.

Releasing an application development kit is likely to increase the  
pressure on apple to add both Bluetooth gps and keyboard support.


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:40 AM, "Doug Sutherland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Alan wrote:
> Adding gps to the iPhone is likely to  be a minor Bluetooth driver  
project.


But you don't have source, so this minor project becomes impossible.
The only way that is going to happen is if/when Apple integrates such
driver support into the device.

  -- Doug
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Let's move on to other issues

[Ron Jeffries]

We have beaten the 850 Mhz issue to death.
Likewise...
"Apple iPhone form factor and GUI is cool"
and
"Oh my God, Google's Gphone is the end
of civilization (and OpenMoko).

Let's shift our group energy to helping
the OpenMoko team make this a killer
open source phone + PDA product.

Remember that time to market is vital.
That means the first iteration will mainly
appeal to ROW (rest of world, outside USA),
but since we know FIC is working the 850 Mhz
issue, the US version should
arrive say 90 days later,

Focus, focus focus. We'll overcome this glitch

No more whining! 
-- 
Ron K. Jeffries
ron_jeffries  Skype
http://blog.eronj.com

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Doug Sutherland]

Alan wrote:
> Adding gps to the iPhone is likely to be a minor Bluetooth driver project.

But you don't have source, so this minor project becomes impossible.
The only way that is going to happen is if/when Apple integrates such
driver support into the device.  

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[William Weinberg]

I understand distrust of the availability and governance of GPS services
by parties outside (and inside) the US, but there is a valid PoV that
the rest of world rides free on those demonic US DoD funded satellites.

Let's use up more discussion bandwidth cursing the darkness.

David Schlesinger wrote:
> I wouldn't have imagined I'd see a less productive contribution than the
> _rest_ of this discussion, but I guess it goes to show how mistaken one can
> be.
> 
> I won't be hurt if you don't use GPS.
> 
> 
> On 11/8/07 8:08 AM, "kenneth marken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45 Randall Mason wrote:
>>> iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?
>>>
>>> GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.  It is
>>> run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not work in the
>>> US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System.
>>>
>> donated, under the condition that "you" (as in the nation) have the sole 
>> right
>> to turn it of at any time. lets never forget, its a military system, designed
>> to guide weapons and soldiers. that its being used for civilian uses are a
>> afterthought more then anything else.
>>
>> ___
>> OpenMoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> ___
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> 

-- 
Bill Weinberg - Embedded and Open Source Analyst / Consultant
http://www.linuxpundit.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
831-662-2857 (p)   |  408-568-2492 (m)   |   831-662-2852 (f)
  Blogs:  http://activeanalysis.net/blog/18
  http://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/mobile

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Alan McSwain]

Adding gps to the iPhone is likely to be a minor Bluetooth driver  
project.


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 8, 2007, at 7:44 AM, "Randall Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?

GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.   
It is run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not  
work in the US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global  
Positioning System.


How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones,  
GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone?   
How did you convince your company to start these projects?  Why was  
Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported because  
of hardware layout not enough?  How do people decide that they want  
quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why they  
would want them (besides "wow, quad band works everywhere, right?  
Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!")?


On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our
development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in
remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any
possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in
to an existing product line.
Thats a fact not a wine.

I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it.
Our products need a  gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and  it  
cant

wait past January 2008.
If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is  
released.


This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever
shifting timetables and secondly,  too much risk when the rug is  
pulled
from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US  frequency  
bands,

while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a
development kit that  might meet our development scenario -- (about  
just).

Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just
became a no-no.

Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till
now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a  
working

state within the next year here in the USA.
All of luck with OpenMoko.

Bye.





Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
>> In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a  
complaint

>> or a whine.
>> It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks  
my

>> project in my company until I find something else.
> Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being  
evaluated,

> i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is
> because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list.
>
>> You left out one important part in your mail below.
> No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding
> the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it.


Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it  
only

makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing
all the features that will work..



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[David Schlesinger]

I wouldn't have imagined I'd see a less productive contribution than the
_rest_ of this discussion, but I guess it goes to show how mistaken one can
be.

I won't be hurt if you don't use GPS.


On 11/8/07 8:08 AM, "kenneth marken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45 Randall Mason wrote:
>> iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?
>> 
>> GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.  It is
>> run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not work in the
>> US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System.
>> 
> 
> donated, under the condition that "you" (as in the nation) have the sole right
> to turn it of at any time. lets never forget, its a military system, designed
> to guide weapons and soldiers. that its being used for civilian uses are a
> afterthought more then anything else.
> 
> ___
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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Ted Lemon]

On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 03:44 +0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> (Same problem with Global Locate regarding the GPS driver)

It might be nice to just send out the old module, even if it
theoretically isn't useful, because somebody might be willing to hack it
to make it work.   Right now we have nothing.

On the topic of 850 MHz, it is a problem that it's not supported.   It's
early days, so I don't care about it for the current phone - I can get
by without it.   But I'd like to hear if there are serious plans to add
this band to a future revision of the phone, or whether this is simply
not possible.

Even if you have a build option for 850 vs. 900, that's not a good
solution - I want a phone that works everywhere, not a phone that works
everywhere close to me.   So I hope that this is something that can
happen with a future revision of the phone, even if it's not the very
next revision.

I'm not expecting a quick answer on this - just wanted to state my
personal concerns on this, which I think are mirrored by a few other
Western Hemispheroids on the list.



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[kenneth marken]

On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45 Randall Mason wrote:
> iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?
>
> GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.  It is
> run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not work in the
> US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System.
>

donated, under the condition that "you" (as in the nation) have the sole right 
to turn it of at any time. lets never forget, its a military system, designed 
to guide weapons and soldiers. that its being used for civilian uses are a 
afterthought more then anything else.

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Randall Mason wrote:
How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, 
GPS, and PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone?  
I would challenge you on that flame Mr Ignoramus. I dont have to prove 
anything to you as I dont need your sanction.

How did you convince your company to start these projects?
Because I have several patents (working in industry) making a lot of 
money and have 100's of large industrial corporations as customers.
Why was Michael's initial post saying that 850MHz is not supported 
because of hardware layout not enough?  How do people decide that they 
want quad band phones without knowing what they really are and why 
they would want them (besides "wow, quad band works everywhere, right? 
Great, I'll just get quad band so I never have to think!")?


Because simply put, IT WONT WORK in rural areas remotely as well as 
another cell phone supporting both bands. Been there done that. Cant you 
get it!?


Anyway I will unsubscribe as I am not interested in non-factual hothead 
behavior.



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Randall Mason]

iPhone doesn't have GPS, so how does that fit your mythical project?

GPS works in the US.  It is a US invention.  It is owned by the US.  It is
run by the US.  We donate it to the world.  Why would it not work in the
US?  It works EVERYWHERE, that's why it's called Global Positioning System.

How are there so many people who know so little about cell phones, GPS, and
PDAs that claim to be supporting projects on this phone?  How did you
convince your company to start these projects?  Why was Michael's initial
post saying that 850MHz is not supported because of hardware layout not
enough?  How do people decide that they want quad band phones without
knowing what they really are and why they would want them (besides "wow,
quad band works everywhere, right? Great, I'll just get quad band so I never
have to think!")?

On 11/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our
> development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in
> remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any
> possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in
> to an existing product line.
> Thats a fact not a wine.
>
> I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it.
> Our products need a  gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and  it cant
> wait past January 2008.
> If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is
> released.
>
> This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever
> shifting timetables and secondly,  too much risk when the rug is pulled
> from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US  frequency bands,
> while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a
> development kit that  might meet our development scenario -- (about just).
> Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just
> became a no-no.
>
> Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till
> now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working
> state within the next year here in the USA.
> All of luck with OpenMoko.
>
> Bye.
>
>
>
>
>
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
> >> In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint
> >> or a whine.
> >> It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my
> >> project in my company until I find something else.
> > Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated,
> > i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is
> > because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list.
> >
> >> You left out one important part in your mail below.
> > No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding
> > the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it.
>
>
> Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only
> makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing
> all the features that will work..
>
>
>
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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

We were willing to wait for the commercial version to start our 
development, but if that is not going to be functional in the USA in 
remote areas like other cellphones, then it is lights-out for any 
possible future vendor here in the USA who want to incorporate this in 
to an existing product line.

Thats a fact not a wine.

I will get a development kit from Apple and live with it.
Our products need a  gps/phone/computer system as an add-on and  it cant 
wait past January 2008.

If the GPS works great I will buy it as a PDA in future once it is released.

This morning the project using the NEO was canned, reasons are, ever 
shifting timetables and secondly,  too much risk when the rug is pulled 
from under your feet by FIC suddenly not supporting US  frequency bands, 
while there are other alternatives such as Iphone available with a 
development kit that  might meet our development scenario -- (about just).
Unfortunately rural access is crucial for our applications, so it just 
became a no-no.


Anyway thanks to all for the input, and the NEO was a great idea till 
now, unfortunately it does not seem if it will be available in a working 
state within the next year here in the USA.

All of luck with OpenMoko.

Bye.





Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint 
or a whine.
It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my 
project in my company until I find something else.
Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, 
i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is 
because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list.



You left out one important part in your mail below.
No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding 
the 850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it.



Well, then add in the WIKI that GPS will still work in NA, else it only 
makes matters worse for marketing and is misleading by not disclosing 
all the features that will work..




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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:
In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint 
or a whine.
It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my 
project in my company until I find something else.
Well the man at FIC (Michael) said that this issue is being evaluated, 
i'm not associated with fic in any way so anything i'm writing is 
because i've read the mails coming from this mailing list.



You left out one important part in your mail below.
No, i've left anything because the subject of this mail is regarding the 
850MHz issue, GPS is not involved with it.
Will GPS work without trouble, is it in any way affected by the 
bandwidth issue.
I would surely think not, but if y0ou want to market this to someone 
as a PDA only, then definitely give the complete information sucha as 
include GPS usability in NA.


Updates? they are told to us from Michael and there is a wiki page for 
them, so if you want to make a business project NEO based you have to 
keep in mind that it's still in development and something could go 
wrong, the new version (GTA02) will have more hardware like wifi and 
openmoko is quite usable now, but i don't know if it's so stable. The 
OpenMoko is free software, so you have to read the license  saying 
something like "if it works ok, if it don't fix it yourself or pay 
someone to fixit for you", so i have to say to be careful doing this 
choice. Good software and i think i'll enjoy it on the NEO (trying the 
qemu versions) but this is from a user/programmer/liunx 
fan/geek/everything you want point of view. From a business point of 
view you have to consider a lot of factor so you have to wait a stable 
release first and get all the updates on that: software firmware 
hardware issues (i'm doing it for the NEO just to see which are the 
progress)


I've wrote that mail only to clarify the situation beacuse anyone was 
saying the same thing. I'll buy the NEO, i'll be happy if it will be a 
quad band phone, but i don't really mind if it'll be a triband phone 
because where i live this is not a problem. Thinking about myself only? 
Maybe, but i really care about a NEO which will work fine in my 
conuntry, if i have to wait for another revision or two to let this 
phone be full quad band to let it working well in the north america, 
i'll be happy to wait, no problem. Anything I want is a good device that 
work fine, possibly in any country with a GSM compilant network.


I've made a mistake saying that the NEO isn't working with 1900MHz, it's 
only not working with the 850MHz one


(hope to be useful and if this email seems not too polite is because of 
my english)


Bye!

Pietro



Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
So, ok, the NEO does NOT support 850/1900 MHz band, this is an issue, 
FIC is informed of that and i think that they are evaluating the 
possibilities to make it working, so please just stop crying at the 
list "my neo here isn't working..." ok, i understand the problem and 
i understand you, but receiving a tons of similar mail is boring. 
AFAIK FIC members read the list, and now are just considering some 
solutions (at least i hope).


So in conclusion, the replies at the FAQ on this issue are (forgive 
me if appear a bit rude but it's due to my english):
I live in north america, i have my NEO dev edition and i can't get 
the signal, what i can do?
sell your neo, it's an hardware/firmware/software issue, so it can't 
be fixed with a simple software upgrade

I need the 850 support should i buy the neo now?
No you don't have to until you want a good pda whitout the 
possibility to make phone calls
I live in NA and i usually stay in my big city, will the neo get the 
signal?
May be, it will probably get it but it's not assured, you can try to 
verify somehow if the bands supported by the neo are covering your area

What can i do to make the neo supporting those bands?
you can do nothing
What is FIC doing about this?
Don't know, i hope they are considering some solutions for this issue
Last but not least: which are the solutions which FIC is considering?
The solutions are:
1) do nothing, at least  for the GTA02, maybe a fix in GTA03 or 
something similar
2) produce 2 separate phone, 1 for the NA and another one for the 
Rest Of The World (identical phone except the capability to get the 
850/1900 band INSTEAD the 900/1800 one)
3) make a nice community poll to ask if the members can wait another 
2 month (the time is just something I think) to redesign the hardware 
and fix the firmware so that we can have a full quad band phone)


The 3rd solution was not proposed but it's another way to solve the 
problem, honestly i don't mind about the quad band, i live in italy 
and i don't think i'll ever come to america, if i'll do that i'll use 
some other cheap phone, but i think that it's important for other 
community member to have it working in quad band way, so i'll wait if 
the community will decide to wait and obviously FIC will consider 
this s

Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Mikko J Rauhala]

On to, 2007-11-08 at 06:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or 
> a whine.

It can become one quickly if everyone keeps mulling it over without
adding anything new.

> It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my 
> project in my company until I find something else.

Sad about your project. Hope they can make that speculated 850/1800/1900
triband version a reality quick, but you can't of course assume that.

> Will GPS work without trouble, is it in any way affected by the 
> bandwidth issue.

1) It's not a bandwidth issue. It's a frequency band issue.
2) GPS is not affected in any way.

-- 
Mikko J Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
University of Helsinki


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Neo case-modding ? (was Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue)

[Werner Almesberger]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The centered, 4.5" Diag *Finger Touch* screen with one thumb width of
> grip space on either end of a basically rectangular device is a
> "Golden Form Factor".

Interesting, so we got it almost right ? Screen size is of course
different, but you could probably case-mod the rest. Replace the
GSM antenna, cut off one speaker, put the GPS antenna in its place,
put it all in a new slimmer and sexier case. Voila, there is your
iNeo :-)

One gotcha: the GPS antenna would end up at a much worse spot.

- Werner

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

In this case it is a very valid issue and definitely not a complaint or 
a whine.
It basically tanks one of the largest consumer bases and it tanks my 
project in my company until I find something else.


You left out one important part in your mail below.
Will GPS work without trouble, is it in any way affected by the 
bandwidth issue.
I would surely think not, but if y0ou want to market this to someone as 
a PDA only, then definitely give the complete information sucha as 
include GPS usability in NA.




Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
So, ok, the NEO does NOT support 850/1900 MHz band, this is an issue, 
FIC is informed of that and i think that they are evaluating the 
possibilities to make it working, so please just stop crying at the 
list "my neo here isn't working..." ok, i understand the problem and i 
understand you, but receiving a tons of similar mail is boring. AFAIK 
FIC members read the list, and now are just considering some solutions 
(at least i hope).


So in conclusion, the replies at the FAQ on this issue are (forgive me 
if appear a bit rude but it's due to my english):
I live in north america, i have my NEO dev edition and i can't get the 
signal, what i can do?
sell your neo, it's an hardware/firmware/software issue, so it can't 
be fixed with a simple software upgrade

I need the 850 support should i buy the neo now?
No you don't have to until you want a good pda whitout the possibility 
to make phone calls
I live in NA and i usually stay in my big city, will the neo get the 
signal?
May be, it will probably get it but it's not assured, you can try to 
verify somehow if the bands supported by the neo are covering your area

What can i do to make the neo supporting those bands?
you can do nothing
What is FIC doing about this?
Don't know, i hope they are considering some solutions for this issue
Last but not least: which are the solutions which FIC is considering?
The solutions are:
1) do nothing, at least  for the GTA02, maybe a fix in GTA03 or 
something similar
2) produce 2 separate phone, 1 for the NA and another one for the Rest 
Of The World (identical phone except the capability to get the 
850/1900 band INSTEAD the 900/1800 one)
3) make a nice community poll to ask if the members can wait another 2 
month (the time is just something I think) to redesign the hardware 
and fix the firmware so that we can have a full quad band phone)


The 3rd solution was not proposed but it's another way to solve the 
problem, honestly i don't mind about the quad band, i live in italy 
and i don't think i'll ever come to america, if i'll do that i'll use 
some other cheap phone, but i think that it's important for other 
community member to have it working in quad band way, so i'll wait if 
the community will decide to wait and obviously FIC will consider this 
solution.


Cya!

Pietro

P.S. We will wait for some FIC official solution.

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Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue

[Michael Shiloh]

I was a little imprecise here. The circuit design, and thus board 
layout, is what limits the handset to 3 bands. The components selected 
(along with firmware and certification) select the 900/1800/1900MHz bands.


Michael

Randall Mason wrote:

Michael said above that it was a question of a physical hardware change:

The chipset is capable of quad band but the board was laid out to only
support 3 bands. So, 850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board. Instead
we support 900/1800/1900MHz.

Board layout is a hardware issue.

On 11/6/07, *Tim Shannon* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Just curious, I don't know much about the hardware in question, but
is it just a firmware issue, or does the hardware have to physically
change to move between the 900 or the 850 frequency?


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--
Randall Mason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 




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Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue

[Michael Shiloh]

Having made the announcement to the community, my next job was to update 
the website to reflect the newly-understood reality.


Michael

Joshua Layne wrote:


On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:37:39 -0800, Joshua Layne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

I hate to add to the fire on this one, but no 850 is a definite deal
breaker.
No quad-band is a serious limitation, as it has been marketed since
inception as a quad-band phone.  


I see now that the openmoko.com page has been updated to state that it is a
tri-band phone, not a quad-band phone - last night it clearly stated quad
band.

I just wish this had been clearly identified 3 or 4 months ago.




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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Michael Shiloh]

Hi,

I'm still pressing on the GSM firwmare update. TI is supposed to have an 
answer for us, and we've been calling them daily. They are incredibly 
difficult to catch.


(Same problem with Global Locate regarding the GPS driver)

Michael

ian douglas wrote:

Al Johnson wrote:

We should find out one way or the other reasonably soon.


Like we'd know "reasonably soon" about the TI modem firmware delivery 
system that they told us about almost a month ago? ;o)


Seriously, if they can fix the 3G issue so I can just use TMobile for 
the time being, then great, I'll keep my Neo. But if I have to wait much 
longer just for the modem firmware upgrade, then this 850 issue is a 
serious deal breaker and I want a refund.


-id

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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

[Mike Hodson]

On Nov 8, 2007 12:29 AM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, ok, the NEO does NOT support 850/1900 MHz band, this is an issue,
> FIC is informed of that and i think that they are evaluating the

ONLY 850 is turned off. 1900 works fine. Coverage may be sproadic or
nonexistent still, but facts are useful :)

Mike

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