RE: does Neo Freerunner support PEAPv0/EAP-MSCHAPv2, an extension under WPA-Enterprise?
I’ve been asking about this too because my campus uses it and the general consensus from the wifi guys is that because it uses WPA supplicant it should connect just fine. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Forrest Sheng Bao Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:56 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: does Neo Freerunner support PEAPv0/EAP-MSCHAPv2, an extension under WPA-Enterprise? Hi, I would like to know whether Neo Freerunner support PEAP protocol? It is an Wi-Fi authetication protocol, extended under WPA-Enterprise protocol. The Wi-Fi in my campus use this protocol. So I care whether I can connect to campus Wi-Fi from Neo Freerunner. Cheers, Forrest -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:29:17AM +0200, arne anka wrote: i liked palm's old graffiti very much (the new graffiti 2 is crap) and would like to be able to use a similar approach on my freerunner, too. I agree. Single-stroke-per-character has advantages, I feel, in reliability and in lookups and other applications where each stroke counts. I had problems in the phone lookup interface sometimes with Graffiti 2 - I really think they took a step backwards. Does anyone know who owns the IP on Graffiti? I tried to hunt it down because I personally would like to see Graffiti on my Freerunner when I get it, since there is no hardware keyboard. (I will miss my Treo 650's hw kb, but not the unfixable OS bugs!) Regards, Msquared... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Font type and size was (QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03)
This inspires me to do a different calculation based on biological and physical facts: According to (German) Wikipedia http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auflösungsvermögen the human eye can separate two distinct points if they are displaced in an angle of 2' (2 minutes, i.e. 0.0333 degrees). For lines and structures the resultion is up to 0.3' (i.e. 0.005 degrees). Now, if you hold the display in distance of 40cm from your eyes (half arm-length), this translates to (40cm * tan(0.0 deg)) 0.02 cm, i.e. 0.2 mm to see separate points. On a display with 4.5 x 6 cm this means it should have at least 225 x 300 pixels ~ 130 dpi. QVGA. But stop - to see separate points, you must have one that is on, then one that is off and again one that is on. I.e. you need twice the pixel density or you would simply have a homogenous surface! = 450 x 600 pixels ~ 260 dpi i.e. VGA Now, the 2' was to distinguish two single white spots on an otherwise black background. The lines and structure resolution of our eyes and our image processing unit is much better. So, more than VGA is definitively seen as better by most people (or they need new glasses). Antialiasing just does a low-pass filter on the image so that the eye is not so much disturbed by the rasterization of the pixels. Conclusion: * QVGA is much worse than the precision of the human eye, so I would assume most people can read a better display * Antialiasing does not improve the information content, it just smoothens the edges * VGA appears to match the precision to see two separated dots * VGA would still be observed as superior * Antialiasing is no longer required if we go to approx. 1200 x 1500 pixels ~650 dpi on a 2.8 '' display in a distance of 40cm. This is the biophysical limit where improved resultion becomes invisible. If you hold it closer (with appropriate glasses or young eyes) you will still be able to see pixels. Finally let's try a look into the future: in 10 years such high resolution displays may be available (e-book!) since the display manufacturers already know this and work towards the limits. But since all the discussion wasn't about quality but display and CPU cost this is not important... Nikolaus Am 17.06.2008 um 07:17 schrieb Hans L: On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Dale Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If your current display is around 150dpi, you can see what QVGA would be like with something like this: xterm -fn '*-clean-*--6-*-c-40*' This will give you a terminal window with a 4x6 font cell (3x5 for characters + 1px spacing). Note that the automatic smear bold make this font unreadable, but the non-bold works. However, I would much prefer to use a larger font on a VGA-size display with 285dpi, like this: xterm -fn '*-clean-med*--16-*-c-80-*' -fb '*-clean-bold*--16-*-c-80- *' I think that in order to most accurately simulate the viewing experience of a handheld device, ideally you want to show the same number of pixels in a particular angle of view. Since the pixels per inch of the GTA display are most likely not the same as your computer monitor, you can adjust this effective angle of view by changing your distance from your monitor. After some wikipedia and a little arithmetic, I think that the situation can be simplified to the following equation: Dcm = Dhh * PPIhh / PPIcm Dcm = viewing distance of computer monitor Dhh = viewing distance of hand-held device PPIhh = Pixels Per Inch of hand-held device PPIhh = Pixels Per Inch of computer monitor I held up my current phone, as if I was about to type something on the keypad, and determined that a comfortable position for me is to hold my phone roughly 12 in front of my eyes. The GTA02 device has 640 pixels along it's longest dimension of 2.27. 640 / 2.27 is about 282 PPI The monitor I'm using right now has 1024 pixels on its horizontal, and is 12 wide, which comes to about 85 pixels per inch. So, in order to simulate the GTA02 displaying VGA xterm at 12 viewing distance: 12 * 282ppi / 85ppi = about 40 I can then view this command from 40 away from my monitor: xterm -fn '*-clean-med*--16-*-c-80-*' -fb '*-clean-bold*--16-*-c-80- *' ...and it will theoretically take up the same field of view as a (VGA) GTA02 at 12 To compare with a same sized QVGA screen, view at half distance as previous command(20 for me): xterm -fn '*-clean-*--6-*-c-40*' Disclaimer: I'm certainly no expert in visual perception or optics, and even my geometry is a little rusty, so please correct me if any of this doesn't make sense. So, with the geeky number crunching out of the way, my conclusion to this experiment is that I find that (my simulated version of) 640x480 on a 2.27 screen is very readable at 80x24, and very useful (to my eyes anyways). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: 2.5mm or 3.5mm
First, my preference. Then some thought-provoking discussion (I know it's late - I've been finishing off a project of my own!) On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 08:18:16AM +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: B) classic 3.5mm headphones Walkman(R) connector, where you have to DIY an adapter for any standard cellphone headset? (or does anybody know of 3.5mm headSET standards or adapters?) I think on the whole, a 4-conductor one of these is best (which, it seems, is the same conclusion you came to). However, I have some other things to say regarding the hardware, standards, and reliability. Read on... On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:21:35PM +0200, Kim Alvefur wrote: ipod shuffle does usb over 4 pol 3.5mm TRS, could be similar? This is a very bad idea. If this is true, then I just can't fathom what Apple were thinking at the time. I'm sick and tired of companies changing standards, and changing connectors from one hardware generation to the next. One of the reasons I'm giving up Palm-based devices and switching to OpenMoko is that Palm seem to have a new connector every new generation of hardware, which renders all previous peripherals useless. Also, their connectors are flimsy and poorly designed, as are the connectors on virtually every phone in the market. USB provides power and data, I think it's time all phones used it. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 03:36:40PM +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Agree about the extra battery issue, but I have to agree with Thomas wired headsets no longer seem to be a fashion accessory in wide use, whereas BT cyborgs are all over the shop like a bad episode of Dr Who. Just a big bunch of nerds trying to look important. None of them is listening to music, while still able to take a call without panically removing the earpieces to listen to the phone-earspeaker ;-) Not so. I have one each of these, and they are fantastic: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-SHB6102-behind-neck-Bluetooth/dp/B000OY4RUG http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-SHB6102-behind-neck-Bluetooth/dp/B000OY4RUG They both function as stereo headphones and as phone headsets. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:02:27AM +0200, Sander van Grieken wrote: External adapters are a bad idea since it could put extra force on the jack socket. I can attest to this; I've had about three Palm Treo 650 where the headset socket eventually died. However, I attribute this to poor design of the socket mechanism itself. Spefically, the very same solder joints that provide signal are the same solder joints that mechanically anchor the socket housing to the board. Over time, normal wear and tear causes the electrical connections to become intermittent and fail. Unless wiggling the plug in the socket does not stress the electrical connections between the socket and the board, then it will eventually fail. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:21:46AM +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: But of course it would be nice if the audio out was less sensitive to impedance issues than people have said the Freerunner probably will be. I heard about this, and I must admit I'm a bit concerned. I hope it will not be a problem. I don't think computer headsets with 3.5 mm plugs are normally very portable. This is probably true, and is a good case for 2.5mm + adapter being supplied on the next Neo. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:38:06AM +0200, Pawel Kowalak wrote: There's one issue though... Someone may like to listen mp3s and be able to answer phones without pulling Neo out of his pocket or changing to BT headset... Check out the BT headsets I list above. Nice solution! I believe that Philips have released newer models, too... On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 02:42:45PM +0200, Thomas Franck wrote: I vote for B (3.5mm) as well.. even if just headphone.. IMHO, the 2.5 ones are just too fragile... I agree: I once had a headset cord catch on a door; the cord was yanked out of the socket, and while the socket survived, the end of the plug was bent beyond repair. On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:18:01PM +0200, Kim Alvefur wrote: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=5262651 says that the iPhone plug uses: tip=R, ring1=L, ring2=Common, sleeve=Mic (which is not what I would have guessed) God damn it, Apple. Ground is supposed to be closest to the cable! WHY? In my experience, it seems that all manufacturers are guilty of violating common practise, written standards, and just common sense. More of them need to read books by Donald Norman... On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 05:00:25AM +0200, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: A) standard 2.5mm headset (mic+phones) connector, where you have to buy a cheap adapter if you want to use your old headphones, (the way like it's for GTA01/02) A!!! And please also provide the adapter:) I agree that this would be suitable, but I don't really like the idea of yet another small piece of plastic to lose or forget. I think 3.5mm with 4 connectors and intelligence such as this
Re: GSoC projects
Hi, On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 01:19, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reading through the GSoC updates, i saw that (atl least) two used Markov Model . I have no idea what that is, or how it's used, i just wanted to ask if it's the same functionality? Yes, it is. Because ifyes, joining the forces and implementing a Markov Model Demon, which offers its services through dbus, or a simple library, would be cool, os that we avoid code duplication. The use of specialized deamon for that purpose would produce rather big overhead, as it is the core concept of the systems. However encapsulating it in a library would produce mentioned avoidance. regards, Maciek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM Layer 3 Tracing
Usually there are vendor specific AT commands for the GSM chipsets to turn the Layer 3 tracing on. The trace itself is then in an proprietary format, which then needs then to be decoded. There was an interesting post from Rob with an example of monitoring the Network Quality (quite a while ago): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002710.html The information from the Layer 3 trace would be vital for such Network Quality monitoring. Therefore, I have the following questions: Does the TI Calypso chipset support GSM Layer 3 tracing (AT Command)? Is there a specification available to decode the Layer 3 trace from TI? Best regards, Thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
openmoko and pci express voice modems
Hello, I would like to know whether it is possible to plug a pci express voice modem into a laptop and then use openmoko to make mobile calls from the laptop ? An example pci express card is the MC8775v : http://www.sierrawireless.com/resources/product/MC8775V%20Datasheet%20rev%201.0.pdf Is anyone using this or another similar device to make calls from their laptop ? thanks Matt -- http://www.flatmaxstudios.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC projects
Hello, On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 1:19 AM, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there. Reading through the GSoC updates, i saw that (atl least) two used Markov Model . I have no idea what that is, or how it's used, It is amazing what you can find on the Internet with a little effort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_model -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
Some time ago (or better: a long long time ago) someone in the list posted a thread about handwriting rekognition on the Neo. In the title there was also the word graffiti, and somone in the list said that he's a graffiti official, and that it would be better to not use it as a name to avoid eventual legal dispute.. As far as i know, there's already a handwriting rekognition on the openmoko.. On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Msquared [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:29:17AM +0200, arne anka wrote: i liked palm's old graffiti very much (the new graffiti 2 is crap) and would like to be able to use a similar approach on my freerunner, too. I agree. Single-stroke-per-character has advantages, I feel, in reliability and in lookups and other applications where each stroke counts. I had problems in the phone lookup interface sometimes with Graffiti 2 - I really think they took a step backwards. Does anyone know who owns the IP on Graffiti? I tried to hunt it down because I personally would like to see Graffiti on my Freerunner when I get it, since there is no hardware keyboard. (I will miss my Treo 650's hw kb, but not the unfixable OS bugs!) Regards, Msquared... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Fran Lebowitz - You're only has good as your last haircut. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why not use forum? - Use OESF.org forum
Hi! I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? It's much better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the topics you want and etc. I have been notet that a new (Sub-)Forum has been created: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showforum=161 OESF is one of the largest fora systems and was initially a Zaurus User Group. But now it covers everything around embedded/mobile/ handheld Linux devices including embedded Debian, Android, OpenBSD, OpenZaurus... So, Openmoko also fits into this environment with some 8000 subscribers. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OEM market,any thoughts about that??
Am Mo 16. Juni 2008 schrieb Al Johnson: On Sunday 15 June 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Sa 14. Juni 2008 schrieb steve: A big percentage of requests I get are for this, however, they always want some hardware twist. They don't exactly know our hw, I guess (e.g it's not commonly known we have a low-voltage-RS232, I2C, and separate power feed on internal debug-con / testpoints). Also some mods on hw are quite easy to accomplish, either for us or for them. I suggest, you forward their requests to me, and I'll have a look at it and see what's feasible EE-side with reasonable effort/cost. Would be a pity to send them away, just because we didn't check what we can do for them, no? cheers jOERG Is there any documentation available for these interfaces? They may be a good alternative to USB for adding extra buttons, sensors or whatever in alternative cases. The debugcon should be kinda documented in the wiki IIRC. Most of the testpoints are documented right on the board by a printing. But no, I don't think there is a complete comprehensive doc yet. Maybe if I really don't know how to kill my time eventually... ;-) Anyway you're wellcome to ask. I'm not allowed to publish schematics, but I shall answer _every_ reasonable question regarding hardware. cheers jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
handwriting recognition?
Some time ago (or better: a long long time ago) someone in the list posted a thread about handwriting rekognition on the Neo. In the title there was also the word graffiti, and somone in the list said that he's a graffiti official, and that it would be better to not use it as a name to avoid eventual legal dispute.. well, we _were_ referring to the palm software with the name. i know those guys from the ip division usually have problems with the world outside their cubicles, but, we didn't use the trademark for something else. As far as i know, there's already a handwriting rekognition on the openmoko.. i don't see anything. neither in qemu nor in the wiki. any hints/links are highly appreciated. regarding the question, who owns graffiti 1, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_(Palm_OS) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
Once I have OpenMoko, I surely try this: http://risujin.org/cellwriter/ ohin On 6/17/08, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some time ago (or better: a long long time ago) someone in the list posted a thread about handwriting rekognition on the Neo. In the title there was also the word graffiti, and somone in the list said that he's a graffiti official, and that it would be better to not use it as a name to avoid eventual legal dispute.. As far as i know, there's already a handwriting rekognition on the openmoko.. On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Msquared [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:29:17AM +0200, arne anka wrote: i liked palm's old graffiti very much (the new graffiti 2 is crap) and would like to be able to use a similar approach on my freerunner, too. I agree. Single-stroke-per-character has advantages, I feel, in reliability and in lookups and other applications where each stroke counts. I had problems in the phone lookup interface sometimes with Graffiti 2 - I really think they took a step backwards. Does anyone know who owns the IP on Graffiti? I tried to hunt it down because I personally would like to see Graffiti on my Freerunner when I get it, since there is no hardware keyboard. (I will miss my Treo 650's hw kb, but not the unfixable OS bugs!) Regards, Msquared... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Fran Lebowitz - You're only has good as your last haircut. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OEM market,any thoughts about that??
I'm curious about If when released, if a volunteer makes a detailed photoguide of where/what/for what/how about the hardware. Can count with openmoko help? It's recommended to no distribute those kinds of docs? or better do it under openmoko supervision? Only to talk about it, meanwhile the freerunner arrives, ... waiter, another beer, please. --- El mar, 17/6/08, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: OEM market,any thoughts about that?? Para: community@lists.openmoko.org CC: Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: martes, 17 junio, 2008 11:51 Am Mo 16. Juni 2008 schrieb Al Johnson: On Sunday 15 June 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Sa 14. Juni 2008 schrieb steve: A big percentage of requests I get are for this, however, they always want some hardware twist. They don't exactly know our hw, I guess (e.g it's not commonly known we have a low-voltage-RS232, I2C, and separate power feed on internal debug-con / testpoints). Also some mods on hw are quite easy to accomplish, either for us or for them. I suggest, you forward their requests to me, and I'll have a look at it and see what's feasible EE-side with reasonable effort/cost. Would be a pity to send them away, just because we didn't check what we can do for them, no? cheers jOERG Is there any documentation available for these interfaces? They may be a good alternative to USB for adding extra buttons, sensors or whatever in alternative cases. The debugcon should be kinda documented in the wiki IIRC. Most of the testpoints are documented right on the board by a printing. But no, I don't think there is a complete comprehensive doc yet. Maybe if I really don't know how to kill my time eventually... ;-) Anyway you're wellcome to ask. I'm not allowed to publish schematics, but I shall answer _every_ reasonable question regarding hardware. cheers jOERG___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why not use forum? - Use OESF.org forum
I then I got another source of knowlege/comunication to add to the repository. Bookmarked! --- El mar, 17/6/08, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Why not use forum? - Use OESF.org forum Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: martes, 17 junio, 2008 11:42 Hi! I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? It's much better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the topics you want and etc. I have been notet that a new (Sub-)Forum has been created: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showforum=161 OESF is one of the largest fora systems and was initially a Zaurus User Group. But now it covers everything around embedded/mobile/ handheld Linux devices including embedded Debian, Android, OpenBSD, OpenZaurus... So, Openmoko also fits into this environment with some 8000 subscribers. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
tossing contacts
Anybody following the Macross Frontier anime series (personal comm devices seem to be a developed sub-theme) may have noticed recently the tossing of contact information from one cell phone to another. Ep 8 I think.. Would be a cool application of the gesture project. The receiver would have to catch, not exactly at the same time, in order to confirm receipt. Sender does frisbee type toss motion, catcher preforms similar motion in other plane. Possibly incompatible with consumption of buttered toast. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, ramsesoriginal wrote: As far as i know, there's already a handwriting rekognition on the openmoko.. Can we use it to unlock the phone instead of using a pincode? :) Paul ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
As far as i know, there's already a handwriting rekognition on the openmoko.. i don't see anything. neither in qemu nor in the wiki. any hints/links are highly appreciated. I don't know if it is in the images but it is called matchbox-stroke and it is one opkg away. I have not tested it but i supose that using the recipe in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards it could be used instead of the multitap s/keyboard/stroke. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
still GPS questions
Hello OpenMoko community. I read a lot of the GPS discussion on this mailing list, in the OpenMoko wiki and on wikipedia. Still there are things I don't get :-( As I'm interested in the freerunner everything here refers to the GTA02. There are two extensions to GPS - AGPS and DGPS. On page one of GTA02s GPS chips datasheet [1] is written that both are supported. Concerning DGPS the datasheet seems to refer only to the big services (WAAS in America, EGNOS in Europe and MSAS in Japan). The services use geostationary satellites sending data for additional accuracy on the same frequency as the GPS signal. As far as I understand the GTA02 GPS chip automatically uses the WAAS/EGNOS/MSAS signals for better accuracy when they are available ([1], page 9, table 3-1, Accuracy). In principle the DGPS signal/data could be transfered to the freerunner by radio, gsm, wlan, lan,... so my first question is: 1. Are there other DGPS services in Germany available? Is it possible to receive this data and feed it into GTA02s GPS chip? AGPS seems to be a mixture of different assisting things. First of all the possibility to feed (almanac and ephemeris) infos about the GPS satellites to the chip so that it finds the satellites in 5 seconds instead of 35 seconds. Freerunners ATR0635 chip offers AssistNOW(tm) which seems to be ublox service, offering almanac and ephemeris via internet. 2. Is this AssistNOW(TM) supported by the GTA02 software? Are there better/cheaper ways of getting up to date almanac and ephemeris into the freerunner? Other AGPS features seem to rely on gsm communication with a server - sending GPS data to that server which helps calculating the position - getting additional data about the position from a server - even get the precise position measured by gsm triangualtion 3. Which of these services are available in a common gsm network in Germany/Europe/worldwide? Can these services be used by GTA02? Best regards Michael [1] http://www.u-blox.com/products/Data_Sheets/ATR0630_35_SglChip_Data_Sheet(GPS.G4-X-06009).pdf ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:13:55PM +0200, arne anka wrote: regarding the question, who owns graffiti 1, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_(Palm_OS) Looks like Xerox owns the patent. If it's still 17 years for a patent, that patent will still be valid for 5 or so years. I wonder if Xerox would be interested in allowing open source projects to use their invention without fee? Regards, Msquared... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:09:03AM +0200, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: What are the engineering reasons for this? The reason is that the user normally wants to run a lot of root applications such as rdate, power off, opkg, etc. Of course this should be solved, but it should not be a top priority. Personally, I want to use my Freerunner as a satellite device for my own set of personal and corporate data, via a secured network of some sort. For me, that means I need to be able to trust the Freerunner, and if so many 'user' apps run as root, then I can't trust that. Perhaps even worst than data destruction would be data pilfering; think 'identity theft' and 'fraud' for a start. The moment that you connect a device to anything resembling a network, you can no longer consider the device to be 'single user'. Regards, Msquared... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
A quick search of my list archive found this: On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 2:38 AM, David Lefty Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Graffiti (as it pertains to handwriting systems) is a registered trademark of ACCESS Systems Americas, not a generic term; you want to find some alternate terminology. Sorry, gotta point it out, it's part of my job... On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Msquared [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:13:55PM +0200, arne anka wrote: regarding the question, who owns graffiti 1, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_(Palm_OS)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_%28Palm_OS%29 Looks like Xerox owns the patent. If it's still 17 years for a patent, that patent will still be valid for 5 or so years. I wonder if Xerox would be interested in allowing open source projects to use their invention without fee? Regards, Msquared... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Matt Flax wrote: Hello, I would like to know whether it is possible to plug a pci express voice modem into a laptop and then use openmoko to make mobile calls from the laptop ? An example pci express card is the MC8775v : http://www.sierrawireless.com/resources/product/MC8775V%20Datasheet%20rev%2 01.0.pdf Is anyone using this or another similar device to make calls from their laptop ? thanks Matt It ought to be possible, though probably not out of the box. It seems like an odd thing to do, but I'm sure you have a reason. You could run asterisk on the laptop and use it to route calls between the modem in the laptop and a SIP or IAX client running on the openmoko with a USB or WiFi network connection. This ought to be fairly easy to set up, assuming the card exposes its audio interfaces. One or more of the network capable audio daemons could probably make the openmoko appear as an audio interface on the laptop, so probably usable with the modem. You could try to get the openmoko to behave as a Bluetooth headset or handsfree kit, but I'm not certain there's any software available to implement this yet. This also assumes that the laptop can connect the card to the bluetooth audio device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tossing contacts
Sender does frisbee type toss motion, catcher preforms similar motion in other plane. like the wii rermote? wasn't there something about shooting the tv ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
Can we use it to unlock the phone instead of using a pincode? :) something in this way is definitely needed if the om uses password related security -- always hacking in a password with the onscreen keyboard will probably be rather slow and prone to exposure. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: handwriting recognition?
arne anka wrote: i looked around a bit but i cannot find informations about the state of handwriting recognition or whether it exists at all. i liked palm's old graffiti very much (the new graffiti 2 is crap) and would like to be able to use a similar approach on my freerunner, too. Qtopia has a handwriting inputmethod. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OEM market,any thoughts about that??
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Mo 16. Juni 2008 schrieb Al Johnson: On Sunday 15 June 2008, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Sa 14. Juni 2008 schrieb steve: A big percentage of requests I get are for this, however, they always want some hardware twist. They don't exactly know our hw, I guess (e.g it's not commonly known we have a low-voltage-RS232, I2C, and separate power feed on internal debug-con / testpoints). Also some mods on hw are quite easy to accomplish, either for us or for them. I suggest, you forward their requests to me, and I'll have a look at it and see what's feasible EE-side with reasonable effort/cost. Would be a pity to send them away, just because we didn't check what we can do for them, no? cheers jOERG Is there any documentation available for these interfaces? They may be a good alternative to USB for adding extra buttons, sensors or whatever in alternative cases. The debugcon should be kinda documented in the wiki IIRC. Most of the testpoints are documented right on the board by a printing. But no, I don't think there is a complete comprehensive doc yet. Maybe if I really don't know how to kill my time eventually... ;-) Anyway you're wellcome to ask. I'm not allowed to publish schematics, but I shall answer _every_ reasonable question regarding hardware. cheers jOERG Thanks for the pointer. I should have looked harder before asking. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_hardware#Debug_Connector This seems to have the serial, JTAG and i2c on the debug connector, and GSM on testpoints. I'll wait until I've got one to have a look at the printing on the board before asking for more. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing all of the options on a given application. But others are interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications. I'm glad Raster joined up w/Moko for this. What's that slider view for (the one with three panels)? The equations, zoomed text, giant icon, etc? I'm guessing something goes in there, but I have no idea what. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OT: Nokia expects open source developers to accept things like DRM, commercial IP rights, and SIM locks.
Martin Larsson wrote: Sure, that's what he is saying. But it isn't possible to make DRM with free software. That's what he's not understanding. No, there is something more basic he is not understanding. This is it: If a player decides not play along, that player is a disruptive force. Not only does that player have phones that are worth more to the clients, these phones also diminish the customer value of all other phones in the market. In other words, it is not the open source that don't get the economic forces at play, it is the carriers. This is exactly what FOSS has been doing over the past 24 years. Oracle, VMWare and others didn't just decide to give free (pizza) versions of their technology. FOSS price points were forced on them. So, yes, it may take a while, but the people who need to get it are not the FOSS world. Shachar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2.5mm or 3.5mm
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: B) classic 3.5mm headphones Walkman(R) connector, where you have to DIY an adapter for any standard cellphone headset? (or does anybody know of 3.5mm headSET standards or adapters?) I vote for the 3.5. Supporting standard headphones is more important than being able to use a wired headset. However, some phones (at least the ROKR E2, maybe others) have had a 3.5 jack with an extra ring, which I think is for the microphone. If you follow this standard, the wired headsets designed for those can work. You can plug in standard stereo headphones (in which case the sleeve shorts out the microphone input) or the special wired headset with an extra ring. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU
Kevin Dean wrote: Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing all of the options on a given application. But others are interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications. I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog post. That post can be read at http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html. I hope people enjoy! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Kevin, thank you very much for the photo tour! Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2.5mm or 3.5mm
I also vote for the 4 conductor 3.5mm jack. I am not 100% sure the pinout of my Blackberry Curve, but I know that I can plug in my sony mdr-ex71 headphones and get perfect sound (added to this an 8gig microsd means I dont have to take my largish iriver out and about unless I want radio or recording). Anything to make it easier to connect to normal headphones, and maintain the mic ability with the 4 conductor connector. Mike On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi community! A short poll: on a future GTA0x (2), would you prefer to have A) standard 2.5mm headset (mic+phones) connector, where you have to buy a cheap adapter if you want to use your old headphones, (the way like it's for GTA01/02) or B) classic 3.5mm headphones Walkman(R) connector, where you have to DIY an adapter for any standard cellphone headset? (or does anybody know of 3.5mm headSET standards or adapters?) please hurry to vote, we have to make a decision. Thanks cheers jOERG Openmoko-HW-development ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Lally Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm glad Raster joined up w/Moko for this. What's that slider view for (the one with three panels)? The equations, zoomed text, giant icon, etc? It's an application launcher. Each application is in a category, and each box on that screen is a category. You can slide each box left and right to have the image fade in and out (you can see mid-slide in one of the screenshots) to change the application and then tap it to launch it. The images are just blown up versions of the icons that you'd see in grid mode. I'm guessing something goes in there, but I have no idea what. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OEM market,any thoughts about that??
David Samblas Martinez wrote: I'm curious about If when released, if a volunteer makes a detailed photoguide of where/what/for what/how about the hardware. Can count with openmoko help? that depends on which part of the hw. most of the generic soc is kinda 'public documented' anyways. the gsm modem and the gps in case of gta01 for example will need to stay blackboxes for what i know. It's recommended to no distribute those kinds of docs? or better do it under openmoko supervision? i do not really know what you mean. our policy for hw-informations needs to differ depending on the questions you're asking (due to 3rd parties). so it was much easier and less time consuming to document whats obviously of interest and let the rest open for 'on request'. if you want to do a exact and detailed photostory, draw stuff and do proper documentation and so on, be sure nobody will stop you aslong as you try to keep gps and gsm a 'blackbox'. in the end people without a high-end-lab can't do much with the pure hw of a 'well-hung' gsm chipset. in case you're unsure if one should publish a specific information, just ask. we do not bite Only to talk about it, meanwhile the freerunner arrives, ... waiter, another beer, please. just have fun. be sure we will give you a note before you trip any lines we need to keep ;) kind regards -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
I see, What I am really trying to do is to have as close to an all in one convergence as possible. So take a small EEEPC like laptop, put the voice modem into it and there you have it ... phone, music player, video player, upgradeable memory, a mini computer with full QWERTY keys and so on ... Is it perhaps simpler to connect an openmoko device to a mini laptop ? Is it possible to route openmoko device audio through a laptop? thanks Matt On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Matt Flax wrote: Hello, I would like to know whether it is possible to plug a pci express voice modem into a laptop and then use openmoko to make mobile calls from the laptop ? An example pci express card is the MC8775v : http://www.sierrawireless.com/resources/product/MC8775V%20Datasheet%20rev%2 01.0.pdf Is anyone using this or another similar device to make calls from their laptop ? thanks Matt It ought to be possible, though probably not out of the box. It seems like an odd thing to do, but I'm sure you have a reason. You could run asterisk on the laptop and use it to route calls between the modem in the laptop and a SIP or IAX client running on the openmoko with a USB or WiFi network connection. This ought to be fairly easy to set up, assuming the card exposes its audio interfaces. One or more of the network capable audio daemons could probably make the openmoko appear as an audio interface on the laptop, so probably usable with the modem. You could try to get the openmoko to behave as a Bluetooth headset or handsfree kit, but I'm not certain there's any software available to implement this yet. This also assumes that the laptop can connect the card to the bluetooth audio device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.flatmaxstudios.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2.5mm or 3.5mm
2008/6/17 Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also vote for the 4 conductor 3.5mm jack. I vote for the same. There is already a standard headphone jack, and has been for over 30 years. Use it. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
What I am really trying to do is to have as close to an all in one convergence as possible. So take a small EEEPC like laptop, put the voice modem into it and there you have it ... phone, music player, video player, upgradeable memory, a mini computer with full QWERTY keys and so on ... So what you're really asking is if the openmoko software can run on your laptop, and use that card to make phone calls instead of GTA hardware. I would assume no and I'm not sure why you'd want to do it that way. If that card is supported under linux, I'm sure there is better support for it with desktop applications. But this list wouldn't be the place to ask. Is it perhaps simpler to connect an openmoko device to a mini laptop ? Is it possible to route openmoko device audio through a laptop? You should be able to have your laptop present itself has a bluetooth headset to the Freerunner. I have no idea if someone has written software to do that though. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
ti, 2008-06-17 kello 18:53 +0100, Al Johnson kirjoitti: On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Matt Flax wrote: I would like to know whether it is possible to plug a pci express voice modem into a laptop and then use openmoko to make mobile calls from the laptop ? It ought to be possible, though probably not out of the box. It seems like an odd thing to do, but I'm sure you have a reason. [...pondering how you could make calls from a Neo through a laptop] I figured he meant running the OM software on the lappie to operate the voice modem as a phone. Which should be doable with some hacking to accommodate possible differences between the pci express card and the chip arrangement of a Neo. Majorly, would the card present itself as an audio interface or transfer PCM on the serial interface? As currently the OM dialer is Qtopia, the question becomes if it has support for the required I/O strategy or would one have to hack it (I don't know). -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems
I have begun enquiries with one of the manufacturers they mention they already have Linux drivers, but didn't seem to know what I/O routines they already provide I assume that if it needs hacking, then it would simply need control and voice hacking ... control hacks to start stop and do other functions to dial voice hacking to copy PCM buffers to/from openmoko and the device ... is that correct ? It is possible that this device also has GPS ... perhaps that also needs addressing during the hacking ? Matt On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ti, 2008-06-17 kello 18:53 +0100, Al Johnson kirjoitti: On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Matt Flax wrote: I would like to know whether it is possible to plug a pci express voice modem into a laptop and then use openmoko to make mobile calls from the laptop ? It ought to be possible, though probably not out of the box. It seems like an odd thing to do, but I'm sure you have a reason. [...pondering how you could make calls from a Neo through a laptop] I figured he meant running the OM software on the lappie to operate the voice modem as a phone. Which should be doable with some hacking to accommodate possible differences between the pci express card and the chip arrangement of a Neo. Majorly, would the card present itself as an audio interface or transfer PCM on the serial interface? As currently the OM dialer is Qtopia, the question becomes if it has support for the required I/O strategy or would one have to hack it (I don't know). -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.flatmaxstudios.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: still GPS questions
Hi Michael- 2. Is this AssistNOW(TM) supported by the GTA02 software? Are there better/cheaper ways of getting up to date almanac and ephemeris into the freerunner? For GTA02 default shipment image, there is no A-GPS/GPS supported software inside. You could find the u-blox A-GPS online implementation document here: http://people.openmoko.org/matt_hsu/ImplementationAssistNowServerAndClient(GPS.G4-SW-05017-C).pdf And implementation code in following address. http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/matt_hsu/agps-online/ Here is a brief script to run this application: = #!/bin/sh echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/drivers/neo1973-pm-gps/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron ./agps-onlinec -c full -u youraccount -k yourpasswd -la 25.073270 -lo 121.574805 -p 99.00 cat /dev/ttySAC1 == And account application is send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] without content and title. And not all mail account are accepted/could get reply, I tried openmoko.com account not work but my personal gmail works fine. Since the protocol is pretty straight forward, implement an extra proxy to scale up user should be easy. And olv has a GPS test program called AGPS UI in following address: http://projects.openmoko.org/scm/?group_id=127 You could check out and have a try, with AGPS support could cut TTFF time from 40 secs to 10-20 seconds. And the valid time of assist now download is about 4 hours. You could also check the following address: http://embedded-system.net/assistnow-gps-services-boost-up-gps-receiver-performance-u-blox.html Due to the u-blox 4 need to have extra flash to storage up to 14 days of offline data (90 KBytes), GTA02 don't have it. I would very interested if there is another way to twist it around, but not likely, so far. Offline sample data you could find in the following addesss: http://alp.u-blox.com/ And u-blox did provided source code of Assist offline server implementation and ubx header, you could find it here: http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/src/u-blox Other AGPS features seem to rely on gsm communication with a server - sending GPS data to that server which helps calculating the position - getting additional data about the position from a server - even get the precise position measured by gsm triangualtion For u-blox assist now, you have to provide approximate longitude/latitude to get the corresponds almanac and ephemeris package. This might be base on application design for how to provide the longitude/latitude. User could select the location area from list menu or world map, or better implementation using the GSM/wi-fi location technique/service. 3. Which of these services are available in a common gsm network in Germany/Europe/worldwide? Can these services be used by GTA02? The limit from software side of view should same as google map mobile version. Regards, Tony Tu ( Neng-Yu Tu ) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: quemu w/ gat02
arne anka wrote: using openmoko/download.sh i always get the gta01 files. now i changed gta01 in openmoko/env to gta02 or gta02fake and the gta02 files are downloaded -- but flash.sh fails horribly while printing s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20 infinitely. google shows two irc-logs with a question regarding this, but no answer. could somebody please give a hint how to get qemu running w/ gta02 asu? In short, qemu (now) isn't capable to emulate gta02, just gta01. You can build and use ASU images on qemu. There is no big difference between two versions. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
