Re: FreeRunner Quick Start User Guide
Hey! This is great. Thanks. I'll check this out. Note that the quickstart guide is due for a serious update. Michael Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, I have prepared docbook format documentation for http://quickstart.openmoko.org/. The .xml and generated .html is available from: svn checkout svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/qsug Please review it, and let me know of any changes. Will need to add pictures, and fill-in the remaining text. Thanks! SK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Let us impact the material world
How do you not purchase a product from a man this eloquent? Wish I had $400. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:57 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Let us impact the material world Dear Community I am in Columbia. Drinking local coffee (yes Paola your coffee is the best in the world) and thinking with the early morning clarity only those blessed with jag-lag can understand. Yesterday was an amazing day. After a morning walk around the government buildings and many beautiful museums of Bogota, we went up into the mountainous region of Monserrate. To get to the top of this cityscape icon and pilgrimage destination you have three choices: A gravity defying train, a somewhat stable cable car, or climbing. Pilgrims prefer the latter; but, perhaps due to the long delays of FreeRunner, my sense of urgency even here was overwhelming, I chose the cable car. For almost two years now I have told the story of Openmoko. Ascending that mountain provided me with a brief moment where, like my new view of Bogota, I was able to look at things from the outside. A moment long enough to rethink the way in which I told our story. I realized that evangelizing the impact of digital technologies is not enough. We must take charge of them. The story of Openmoko needs to be a story of us changing our open source reality. For this is the opportunity presented to us now. Think: The collapse of so many hi tech companies on our stock exchanges has humbled many. Creators within the digital world -- no matter how novel and exciting -- will have no value unless they impact the material world directly. So this is my call to all of us today. Our work must begin to impact the material world. We have the tools. We have the knowledge. We must use our knowledge to transcend the digital world. People use heroes as touchstones to help them surmount their challenges. John Maeda has been a hero of mine ever since I first discovered my love for combining art and computers. I encourage you all to learn more about this incredibly creative person. His Laws of Simplicity would be a good place to start. For projects like ours, these are indeed guiding lights. Let me share one of his laws with you today; it's the tenth one: Simplicity is about subtracting the obvious, and adding the meaningful. Hardly a day goes by for me without thinking about this elegant idea. The smart phone has become too complex. Our challenge is to make it simple and wise. Yes I am well aware of the distance between us and this goal. The complexity of our system pains me as much as I'm sure it pains you. But starting today, I hope we can become more conscious and more focused on simplicity and wisdom. We have been hard at work subtracting the obvious from our current architectures. Our new framework initiative (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework), is all about simplicity achieved through a complexity of thought and design. But Maeda insists that we must add meaning. Removing the obvious is not enough. So then, what meaningful for a smart phone? What exactly can we add that hasn't been added before? Today let me share two concepts. The first stems from a genre of design called reactive graphics. Pressed to come up with an explanation of how this differs from interactive graphics, I would say the following: Reactive design engages the viewer at an almost instinctual level, rather than just the communication level found in interactive designs. This has a profound effect on how an individual views technology. Reactivity is, in my opinion, the key ingredient for making computers feel more human. All living organisms react. When our Neos begin to react to the environment around them, they will feel more alive to normal people. This is comforting. This is a simple way for us to impact the material world. Meeting interesting people with creative ideas is perhaps the most rewarding part of my job. Last night, while fighting off the less-than-helpful side of jet-lag, I had an great conversation with my new Columbian friend, Offray, about how Openmoko can better impact our daily lives. The Neo, to him, is a social cognition node -- an artifact -- where we can balance the power of the individual with that of the group within the mobile world. Here comes the second concept: Artifacts, he explained, have values embedded within, but sometimes they are not explicit. Our challenge, he said, is how to make this explicit. Start with things people are familiar with and find new ways to make them more qualitative, says Offray. Take SMS, he continues, instead of just plain text, why not send special compressed messages, readable only by Neos. We can use these as enablers to change mobile ecosystems. Hack their network to embed more freedoms for normal people. Add more
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Am 26.06.2008 um 18:14 schrieb arne anka: as truebox.co.uk announces having om in stock now (more or less), what about the german distributors subscribed to this list (dr schaller and c pulster at least): any news on freerunners received? Hi all, as far as I understood the Openmoko web shop will open on 4th of July. And, Openmoko, Inc. has shipped the Freerunners we have bought on 25th of June and they are currently in airfreight and customs transit. As soon as they arrive, we will add CE, Green Dot, User manual etc. and what else we have to comply to when we sell within the European Union. This may need one or two more days. If you want to be amongst the first who receive them, we are already taking preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner Happy Freerunning, Nikolaus Schaller Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.goldelico.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fast questions about GTA03
As I have understood from past ML, the GTA03 will be the enhanced vers of FreeRunner. I think a lot of undecided people like me would like clarification about what the GTA03 might be. Very fast and simple questions: -do we have a rough estimation for when the GTA03 will be out? -the issue with slow bus for Glamo is gonna be resolved by changing the bus or eliminating the Glamo? -will usb still be 1.1? -will the price be different? If it is gonna change, some kind of estimation would be nice. Also, if there are important things I'm missing reply and add, thanks :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: humor
http://xkcd.org/440/ describes a use case for the neo:) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On 2008-06-27, Francesco Cat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I have understood from past ML, the GTA03 will be the enhanced vers of FreeRunner. I think a lot of undecided people like me would like clarification about what the GTA03 might be. Very fast and simple questions: -do we have a rough estimation for when the GTA03 will be out? Some guess it will be out around Christmas. -the issue with slow bus for Glamo is gonna be resolved by changing the bus or eliminating the Glamo? Yes:) -will usb still be 1.1? Yes -will the price be different? If it is gonna change, some kind of estimation would be nice. Also, if there are important things I'm missing reply and add, thanks :) There will be minimal changes: - new battery - new GSM module which supports EDGE - mini jack instead of micro jack - no glamo - much better for video playback, etc. - new case (might include a holder for a plastic stylus) - the rest of the phone will stay unchanged in order to save costs. All this information has at some point been written on the mailing list. It is important to say that THINGS CHANGE FAST. So there is no garatee that this is correct. It was only ideas, but I guess they are very likely to be true. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 02:30 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: I connect my 1973 to my car's AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible today. Only (partially) true for usage with low impedance headphones. This question has been asked before on the list: can you provide any pointers to such headsets? They don't seem to exist. And at least Nokia headsets with 2.5mm plug use a different wiring and don't work on the Neo. Can you please tell us which headphones are high impedance and have the same wiring? This question is kind of open since a year. Our tests on GPS TTFF where quite comparable with some of the best devices available. However note there is some data GPS *has* to download from sat for virgin fix, which may take as long as 12min due to low bandwidth the sats offer (just takes this time for them to send one complete set of ephem and alm), Under good conditions all modern GPS chips have a cold start TTFF (virgin fix) of ~45secs. 12min is the value for 8 to 10 year old chips. On tests done at Taipei the TTFF was around ~40sec without(!) AGPS, IIRC. All reports on the MLs spoke about minutes or not getting a fix at all. So this is a clear sw-issue. What could be the problem then? Usually you power the GPS up and you listen on /dev/ttySAC1 for the NMEA sentences. That's how it works on the Neo1973 and every other device. What software tweaking can be made? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Lol, xmas is too far away :D I'm gonna buy this one I think... Hopefully the Glamo will allow for media to stream regularly, they would have removed there was no way to have a 25 FPS video I think. Plus, we have plenty of hackers ready to work ;) 2008/6/27 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2008-06-27, Francesco Cat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I have understood from past ML, the GTA03 will be the enhanced vers of FreeRunner. I think a lot of undecided people like me would like clarification about what the GTA03 might be. Very fast and simple questions: -do we have a rough estimation for when the GTA03 will be out? Some guess it will be out around Christmas. -the issue with slow bus for Glamo is gonna be resolved by changing the bus or eliminating the Glamo? Yes:) -will usb still be 1.1? Yes -will the price be different? If it is gonna change, some kind of estimation would be nice. Also, if there are important things I'm missing reply and add, thanks :) There will be minimal changes: - new battery - new GSM module which supports EDGE - mini jack instead of micro jack - no glamo - much better for video playback, etc. - new case (might include a holder for a plastic stylus) - the rest of the phone will stay unchanged in order to save costs. All this information has at some point been written on the mailing list. It is important to say that THINGS CHANGE FAST. So there is no garatee that this is correct. It was only ideas, but I guess they are very likely to be true. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
--- On Fri, 6/27/08, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...troll-hunting/killing...) To me he looks quite trollish. I think so too, but thanks for the in depth and clear reply! Boudewijn ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
If you want to be amongst the first who receive them, we are already taking preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner well, i preordered through group sale-trisoft. at least i hope so -- i sent the money to the guy organizing the group sale a while ago, he seemed perferctly legit, being ceo or so of a local company ... ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Quick Start User Guide
Hi guys : I would like to remind everyone, This page is Official One. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Brenda BrendaWang wrote: Here is the getting start guide from wiki. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner Shakthi Kannan 提到: Hi! --- On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | One comment on Chapter 7: | Currently, the utility dfu_util is only provided for Linux. Support for | dfu_util under Windows and Macintosh will be provided at a later date. | | That is not accurate (at least for OSX). See: | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X | There is also an Openmoko Flasher tool for the Macintosh since August 2007. \-- Thanks! Updated the documentation. The wiki documentation is comprehensive, and I feel just pointers to links and necessary documentation to get people started should be kept in this Quick Start User Guide. The User Manual can contain the complete documentation available in the wiki. Just my thoughts, SK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Am Freitag, 27. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber: No we HAVE an issue with decoupling caps in FR (simply too small and cheap). However it depends on type of headphones used (impedance), and it's absolutely fine for line-out usage, like connecting to the car, home stereo etc. Or to a portable headphone amplifier like this one: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/headsix-head-fi-support-sales-action-261529/ I have been using one of these with my iPod for over a year now and the improvement combined with good headphones is very noticeable. I don't even use high-end headphones, just the usual mid-range Sony DJ headphones (~50-80 EUR) Sure it's bulky and one more box to carry around, but the usual mobile devices with their low voltage batteries will probably never be able to drive proper headphones with enough current anyway. So all I need on any future mobile device is a decent line out. regards, Andreas Micklei ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
The price is so good I can't beleive it! Just hope you will have some in august when I'll go back to Poland and will be able to buy it ;-) On 27 Jun 2008 11:04:00 +0200, Christoph Pulster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Francesco Cat wrote: As I have understood from past ML, the GTA03 will be the enhanced vers of FreeRunner. I think a lot of undecided people like me would like clarification about what the GTA03 might be. Very fast and simple questions: -do we have a rough estimation for when the GTA03 will be out? -the issue with slow bus for Glamo is gonna be resolved by changing the bus or eliminating the Glamo? -will usb still be 1.1? -will the price be different? If it is gonna change, some kind of estimation would be nice. Also, if there are important things I'm missing reply and add, thanks :) Francesco I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Amateurs, remember? ;-) -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OLSRD
Robert Schuster wrote: Hi, you know we already have B.A.T.M.A.N in OpenEmbedded but now I gave good old OLSRD a try too. I added a recipe for the latest release 0.5.5 and tested it on the device. It is working nicely along with the ar6000 being in ad-hoc mode (the preferred mode for mesh networks ;) ). No luck with 0.5.3 though - it crashes when I want to view the page generated by the httpinfo plugin. I wanted to do some NATting between the wifi interface and the usbnet connection (effectively making my desktop computer an internet gateway for the Berlin Freifunk community). However this was impossible since OpenMoko does not provide the iptables package (you can get the kernel modules but not the userspace application). You can build it on your own and then everything is fine though. There are also some minor issues with the wifi driver. I reported this[0] a while ago already. I am already happy but I would be so even more if: - olsrd version preference could be set to 0.5.5 - iptables could be installed directly via opkg The FreeRunner as a wifi mesh-node is a nice use case for the time after being a mobile phone. It would be one of the very few nodes that have a screen attached. :) I would like to offer screen shots but there is nothing spectacular to see on them. But perhaps you like some console output instead: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# iwconfig eth0 eth0 AR6000 802.11g ESSID:olsr.freifunk.net Mode:Ad-Hoc Frequency:2.457 GHz Cell: 02:CA:FF:EE:BA:BE Bit Rate=1 Mb/s Tx-Power=15 dBm Sensitivity=0/3 Retry:on Encryption key:off Power Management:off Link Quality:168/94 Signal level:-183 dBm Noise level:-96 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 (A fixed BSSID of '02:CA:FF:EE:BA:BE' is what we use in Berlin to overcome some problems with ad-hoc mode specification.) Starting the daemon: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /etc/init.d/olsrd start Starting OLSR routing protocol daemon: olsr.org *** olsr.org - 0.5.5 *** Build date: 2008-06-26 23:09:18 on linkist http://www.olsr.org Parsing file: /etc/olsrd.conf olsr.org - 0.5.5 detaching from the current process... done. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# pidof olsrd 4479 Pinging a node that is a few hops away: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ping 104.192.0.156 PING 104.192.0.156 (104.192.0.156): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 104.192.0.156: seq=0 ttl=62 time=89.001 ms 64 bytes from 104.192.0.156: seq=3 ttl=62 time=45.555 ms --- 104.192.0.156 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 50% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 45.555/67.278/89.001 ms Traceroute to it: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# traceroute 104.192.0.156 traceroute to 104.192.0.156 (104.192.0.156), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 104.131.4.24 (104.131.4.24) 15.096 ms 29.789 ms 12.770 ms 2 104.131.4.26 (104.131.4.26) 12.536 ms 11.377 ms 10.147 ms 3 104.192.0.156 (104.192.0.156) 25.497 ms 51.212 ms 51.228 ms Actually I could find something that may show I am really using this on the Neo. I attached is httpinfo plugin generated webpage showing my configuration. There are few devices where eth0 is a wifi card. :D If you are interested I also attached by olsrd.conf. You need to have olsrd-plugin-httpinfo, olsrd-plugin-nameservice (didn't work as expected) and olsrd-plugin-dyngw installed besides the daemon. Regards Robert [0] - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1392 Nice enough! I really like mesh networking protocols work on Neos. Maybe I'll try to run Netsukuku. OK first I have to buy one. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Yay! Just ordered mine. :] -marcel Am Freitag 27 Juni 2008 11:04:00 schrieb Christoph Pulster: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On 2008-06-27, Francesco Cat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol, xmas is too far away :D I'm gonna buy this one I think... Hopefully the Glamo will allow for media to stream regularly, they would have removed there was no way to have a 25 FPS video I think. Actually, video will go better without the glamo because the bus will be faster. Anyway, 2D works well with the glamo and the chip is not that bad. Some pros. with having the glamo: - HW scaling and 2D rotation (this is cool) - 2D acceleration (this is also cool) Some cons.: - Power (80mW?) - Bus limit - Not open (e.g. no 3D, etc) So if you do not want to view a lot of videos, the glamo is a good thing (fast zooming of web pages, etc). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Some pros. with having the glamo: - HW scaling and 2D rotation (this is cool) - 2D acceleration (this is also cool) to be honest -- i never really could figure out what's the diff between 2d and 3d acceleration. so, what limitations does it impose? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
No matter how good gta03 is going to be i'm buying 02 :-) Even christmas is to long to wait. On 6/27/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2008-06-27, Francesco Cat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol, xmas is too far away :D I'm gonna buy this one I think... Hopefully the Glamo will allow for media to stream regularly, they would have removed there was no way to have a 25 FPS video I think. Actually, video will go better without the glamo because the bus will be faster. Anyway, 2D works well with the glamo and the chip is not that bad. Some pros. with having the glamo: - HW scaling and 2D rotation (this is cool) - 2D acceleration (this is also cool) Some cons.: - Power (80mW?) - Bus limit - Not open (e.g. no 3D, etc) So if you do not want to view a lot of videos, the glamo is a good thing (fast zooming of web pages, etc). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
AW: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Dito :-D -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Marcel Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Juni 2008 12:32 An: List for Openmoko community discussion Betreff: Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop Yay! Just ordered mine. :] -marcel Am Freitag 27 Juni 2008 11:04:00 schrieb Christoph Pulster: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Me too! :-) Am Freitag, den 27.06.2008, 12:32 +0200 schrieb Marcel: Yay! Just ordered mine. :] -marcel Am Freitag 27 Juni 2008 11:04:00 schrieb Christoph Pulster: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- mfg/br, christian weßel Flurstraße 14 29640 Schneverdingen E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Telefon: +49 5193 97 14 95 Mobile: +49 171 357 59 57 http://wesselch.homelinux.org signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On Jun 27, 2008, at 12:46 PM, arne anka wrote: Some pros. with having the glamo: - HW scaling and 2D rotation (this is cool) - 2D acceleration (this is also cool) to be honest -- i never really could figure out what's the diff between 2d and 3d acceleration. so, what limitations does it impose? Acceleration is simply using GPU for graphics operations instead of CPU. 3D accelerator accelerates 3D operations (rendering 3D objects) and 2D accelerator accelerates 2D operations (bit blits, line drawing, clipping etc.). On modern computers, 2D graphics are simulated using 3D without perspective, because 2D accelerators were almost dropped years ago by graphic cards vendors. I hope I didn't simplified it too much. ;) BR, Pawel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Christian Weßel schrieb: Me too! :-) Am Freitag, den 27.06.2008, 12:32 +0200 schrieb Marcel: Yay! Just ordered mine. :] -marcel Am Freitag 27 Juni 2008 11:04:00 schrieb Christoph Pulster: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Today at 12:46 o´clock I ordered my Freerunner and a Headset ;-) -- MFG Michael Dreher PS: Besuchen sie mich doch auch einmal auf meiner Hompage www.leachim.eu ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? Regards, -- Lucas pgpVRftrOGaxQ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know, running with it. I'll be having my summer vacation starting today, and when I get my FRs from Pulster, that'll hopefully revitalize my motivation to code a bit on that mldiff/rsync proxy and a realtime net-shared shopping list thing I've been thinking about. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen escreveu: - new case (might include a holder for a plastic stylus) Something not resembling a giant keychain holder would be great ;) []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIZNpv2cB5Bt7H7YARAh9MAKCjPBBrlvytM4fCQMPJhbrZEdR8bgCfQGon GufyX0z36mCLg4Eo01zPgMQ= =gEhi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 15:09 +0300, Mikko Rauhala wrote: On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know, running with it. Lucas is one of the heads behind bearstech, one of the European distributors. I guess he fully supports your statement ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
- new case (might include a holder for a plastic stylus) i second that, but it was already mentioned several times. Something not resembling a giant keychain holder would be great ;) you don't know my keychain ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
freerunner in Taiwan
Hi all, I will be in Taiwan during July and I would like to pick up a freerunner there. Does anyone knows where to buy? Or can I go by the FIC/OM office and get from the source :) TIA xming ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Lucas Bonnet wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? Well, from the looks of the screenshots, Freerunners will ship without a GUI email program or web browser. (Is that right?) If so, I'd think that everyone who can contribute to a software update that includes those apps should. They seem fairly critical to me for any smartphone. I would also rate getting the Glamo further figured out so that it will do video playback as well as it's able is important. Note: many people on this list don't care at all about video. I understand that. However, I'm thinking more of public perception. If Slashdot/Engadget/Gizmodo etc. read reviews of the device that say, as shipped, it can't do email, web browsing, or video playback, then a lot of people will simply ignore Openmoko for good. It would be better for the community if it instead attracted as many people as possible. It's hard to overcome a bad first impression, but if some important software updates become available within a month or two, there will still be a chance to bring people around. Brian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Ordered two :D Thanks for the great price. Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OLSRD
Hi. Evgeny Ginzburg schrieb: Nice enough! I really like mesh networking protocols work on Neos. Maybe I'll try to run Netsukuku. OK first I have to buy one. We do not have netsukuku recipes in OE yet. But that could be fixed quickly if it is easy to build. Volunteering to provide a recipe? Then you can have the binary before your phone arrives. :) Regards Robert signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Heller versus DC
Which would give new meaning to the term killer feature and I would be first in line to buy one (after I passed the screening process). -Original Message- From: George Brooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Heller versus DC Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:03:15 +0100 Or maybe future US versions of the Freerunner should include a handgun builtin. solar.george from the UK On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:21:41 -0600 Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, this is really, really off-topic in this forum. Please, the list traffic is heavy enough with items that are germaine, let's not get into this branch of politics ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Heller versus DC
Whatever next? ReiserFS? (Apologies for succumbing to this OT fest) 2008/6/27 Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Which would give new meaning to the term killer feature and I would be first in line to buy one (after I passed the screening process). -Original Message- From: George Brooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Heller versus DC Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:03:15 +0100 Or maybe future US versions of the Freerunner should include a handgun builtin. solar.george from the UK On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:21:41 -0600 Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, this is really, really off-topic in this forum. Please, the list traffic is heavy enough with items that are germaine, let's not get into this branch of politics ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Community Initiative GTK
Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Actually many companies have expressed their interest in a GTK based platform as it is perceived as more future proof than some kind of exotic software stack with a very small developer base. Lots of hesitation comes from the switch to this new stack-mix as all the big ones are going GTK: * Limo (pretty much all big mobile companies plus Intel etc) * Lips * Firefox * Openoffice * Ubuntu * Ubuntu mobile * Garmin IMHO it is very important for the future of Openmoko and open software on mobile phones to grow an ecosystem that involves both, many companies and many free software developers. Thus are there developers/companies on the list interested in maintaining GTK on the openmoko phones and starting a community initiative? Pretty much 90% is already there! Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
maybe a lot of people don't understand the OPENMOKO(personal think). they just think it's a free mobile, a open source project like others. i will Translate this mail to Chinese. let them know what the NEO be. (i can't write article like this : ) Wolfgang talked to me about john meada. Unfortunately, I check the Internet, in China there is only one book, the laws of simplicity. i saw the book. I like NEO, because it is free of mobile phones, is a linux phone. then i met Wolfgang, I feel the NEO is more than a phone. the idear of neo is a artifact. the neo is a kind of life style. Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community I am in Columbia. Drinking local coffee (yes Paola your coffee is the best in the world) and thinking with the early morning clarity only those blessed with jag-lag can understand. Yesterday was an amazing day. After a morning walk around the government buildings and many beautiful museums of Bogota, we went up into the mountainous region of Monserrate. To get to the top of this cityscape icon and pilgrimage destination you have three choices: A gravity defying train, a somewhat stable cable car, or climbing. Pilgrims prefer the latter; but, perhaps due to the long delays of FreeRunner, my sense of urgency even here was overwhelming, I chose the cable car. For almost two years now I have told the story of Openmoko. Ascending that mountain provided me with a brief moment where, like my new view of Bogota, I was able to look at things from the outside. A moment long enough to rethink the way in which I told our story. I realized that evangelizing the impact of digital technologies is not enough. We must take charge of them. The story of Openmoko needs to be a story of us changing our open source reality. For this is the opportunity presented to us now. Think: The collapse of so many hi tech companies on our stock exchanges has humbled many. Creators within the digital world -- no matter how novel and exciting -- will have no value unless they impact the material world directly. So this is my call to all of us today. Our work must begin to impact the material world. We have the tools. We have the knowledge. We must use our knowledge to transcend the digital world. People use heroes as touchstones to help them surmount their challenges. John Maeda has been a hero of mine ever since I first discovered my love for combining art and computers. I encourage you all to learn more about this incredibly creative person. His Laws of Simplicity would be a good place to start. For projects like ours, these are indeed guiding lights. Let me share one of his laws with you today; it's the tenth one: Simplicity is about subtracting the obvious, and adding the meaningful. Hardly a day goes by for me without thinking about this elegant idea. The smart phone has become too complex. Our challenge is to make it simple and wise. Yes I am well aware of the distance between us and this goal. The complexity of our system pains me as much as I'm sure it pains you. But starting today, I hope we can become more conscious and more focused on simplicity and wisdom. We have been hard at work subtracting the obvious from our current architectures. Our new framework initiative (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework), is all about simplicity achieved through a complexity of thought and design. But Maeda insists that we must add meaning. Removing the obvious is not enough. So then, what meaningful for a smart phone? What exactly can we add that hasn't been added before? Today let me share two concepts. The first stems from a genre of design called reactive graphics. Pressed to come up with an explanation of how this differs from interactive graphics, I would say the following: Reactive design engages the viewer at an almost instinctual level, rather than just the communication level found in interactive designs. This has a profound effect on how an individual views technology. Reactivity is, in my opinion, the key ingredient for making computers feel more human. All living organisms react. When our Neos begin to react to the environment around them, they will feel more alive to normal people. This is comforting. This is a simple way for us to impact the material world. Meeting interesting people with creative ideas is perhaps the most rewarding part of my job. Last night, while fighting off the less-than-helpful side of jet-lag, I had an great conversation with my new Columbian friend, Offray, about how Openmoko can better impact our daily lives. The Neo, to him, is a social cognition node -- an artifact -- where we can balance the power of the individual with that of the group within the mobile world. Here comes the second concept: Artifacts, he explained, have values embedded within, but sometimes they are not explicit. Our challenge, he said, is how to make this explicit.
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? First of all, I'd be interrested in getting things to build on an iMac G5. After that, we'll see where it goes. I'm not against tha idea, although I'd have to learn to program TK (but learning a new plaform seems to be my forte lately...) If all else fails, I'll get an older PC off of eBay (or Marktplaats for the dutch). A Linux capable 700MHz (ish) PC with a 16G harddrive should suffice to install Ubuntu ad software stack, but getting it on my hom Mac would be better. Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Im not sure I understand anything about OpenMoko software plans. So I will reply your question with another, probably dumb one : Is anyone planning to try maemo on the freerunner ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:Community Initiative GTK
I for one definitely prefer GTK: as a toolkit I know and like it (in fairness I haven't developed for qt -- I have GTK and especially GTKmm), but in general I find I prefer the look of GTK-based apps better). I also felt the direction the phone was moving up until the ASU was looking very good and promising to me. It was much more along the lines of a handheld computer with phone featuers, which is what I want (the automatic sync with evolution was also very nice). I just noticed the other day that the scaredycat images are still based on the GTK stack -- I hope to be trying that out in the next couple of days. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? ... Thus are there developers/companies on the list interested in maintaining GTK on the openmoko phones and starting a community initiative? Pretty much 90% is already there! I will try to be there but I fell sort of resources and skills ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Ordered mine!!! El vie, 27-06-2008 a las 11:04 +0200, Christoph Pulster escribió: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Diego Fdez. Durán [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.goedi.net GPG : 925C 9A21 7A11 3B13 6E43 50DB F579 D119 90D2 66BB signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Is anyone planning to try maemo on the freerunner ? my question, too. and what about ubuntu mobile? does anybody know whether the plan to test it on om? at least it's the first open phone in the wild -- should be a given development platform for them ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? 2008/6/27 Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I for one definitely prefer GTK: as a toolkit I know and like it (in fairness I haven't developed for qt -- I have GTK and especially GTKmm), but in general I find I prefer the look of GTK-based apps better). I also felt the direction the phone was moving up until the ASU was looking very good and promising to me. It was much more along the lines of a handheld computer with phone featuers, which is what I want (the automatic sync with evolution was also very nice). I just noticed the other day that the scaredycat images are still based on the GTK stack -- I hope to be trying that out in the next couple of days. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
although I'd have to learn to program TK (but learning a new plaform seems to be my forte lately...) not sure, if you confuse something: gtk!=tk gtk is a c based toolkit used by gnome and gimp, tk ist a gui toolkit on top of tcl. If all else fails, I'll get an older PC off of eBay (or Marktplaats for the dutch). A Linux capable 700MHz (ish) PC with a 16G harddrive i think you are far better of with a pc with about 1.5 ghz and a bigger harddisk. developing requires a lot of additional packages which take up a lot of space -- and a fast cpu is a real blessing when compiling often. besides, i don't think the price will differ much ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
hello crist, First of all, I'd be interrested in getting things to build on an iMac G5. After that, we'll see where it goes. I'm not against tha idea, although I'd have to learn to program TK (but learning a new plaform seems to be my forte lately...) I have my Santa Rosa iMac building package images over an usb storage using ubuntu mokomakefile; You don't have any need to invest in other hardware ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: humor
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://xkcd.org/440/ describes a use case for the neo:) Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? -Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No WLAN AP functionality
On pe, 2008-06-27 at 10:47 -0500, Hans L wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks this feature. You should be able to use ad hoc mode for most purposes, albeit not always as conveniently. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
-[ Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:27:52PM +0200, Francesco Cat ] I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? IIRC GTK is still present and always will be. But there are no more plans to varous a complete software set based on it. Apparently, this is more or less considered a feature from the OM team that no GUI is prefered over the other. Which is why I wondered what happended to the previous plans to provide a complete mobility software set. But perhaps the aim of OpenMoko has always been to release a phone, and that I daydreamed the software stack? :-/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 17:27 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote: I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? Basically Openmoko has stopped the development of the GTK stack in order to start a new stack called ASU. There are some 10.000 developers for GTK who can start any time making software for the Neo while there are very few developers for ASU, maybe 50. ASU is only used on the Neo whereas your GTK apps will run on the desktop or on the new MID devices like the ASUS eeePC right out of the box. Naturally for an open source developer it is a difference if the software will run on some hundred Neos or on some million PCs and MIDs. The GTK stack simply needs maintainance and bugfixing to remain a perfect platform for future developments. A really nice thing about the current GTK stack is the abilily to work in portrait and landscape mode just the same. It is just a lot of fun to automatically turn your screen while turning the phone in your hands. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 5:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have my Santa Rosa iMac building package images over an usb storage using ubuntu mokomakefile; You don't have any need to invest in other hardware That's an Intel Mac, not a G5 one... Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 5:30 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christ wrote: although I'd have to learn to program TK (but learning a new plaform seems to be my forte lately...) not sure, if you confuse something: gtk!=tk gtk is a c based toolkit used by gnome and gimp, tk ist a gui toolkit on top of tcl. That was a typoe for GTK... and that was a typo for typo :-) If all else fails, I'll get an older PC off of eBay (or Marktplaats for the dutch). A Linux capable 700MHz (ish) PC with a 16G harddrive i think you are far better of with a pc with about 1.5 ghz and a bigger harddisk. developing requires a lot of additional packages which take up a lot of space -- and a fast cpu is a real blessing when compiling often. besides, i don't think the price will differ much ... You have a point there, but having built all the packages, the Moko files will probably only be a couple of thousands of lines... Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Which is why I wondered what happended to the previous plans to provide a complete mobility software set. But perhaps the aim of OpenMoko has always been to release a phone, and that I daydreamed the software stack? :-/ I wondered the exact same thing. From the front page of the wiki: Openmoko™ born as an Open Source project under GPL and LGPL license and dedicated to delivering an open software stack on mobile platforms, shipped its first product, the Neo 1973, on July 9 2007; and then, turned the project into a start-up company with one aim: create great mobile products using the Openmoko stack: Open. Mobile. Free. So the plan from the early days was to release an Open Source software stack, but this stack had to be radically altered at the 11th hour to get the hardware out of the door? Erm... 2008/6/27 cedric cellier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -[ Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:27:52PM +0200, Francesco Cat ] I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? IIRC GTK is still present and always will be. But there are no more plans to varous a complete software set based on it. Apparently, this is more or less considered a feature from the OM team that no GUI is prefered over the other. Which is why I wondered what happended to the previous plans to provide a complete mobility software set. But perhaps the aim of OpenMoko has always been to release a phone, and that I daydreamed the software stack? :-/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
I wanted to order mine too, but it looks as if the 299 eur does not include the bag and headset as forother shops (trisoft, handheld linux). And I thought that were gifts from openmoko. Do I really have to order them separately? And which price? Ed. 2008/6/27 Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Freerunner 299€ Headset 9€ Bag 19€ summa summarum 237€ Cheaper than trisoft (which doesn't ship the bag and the headset at all) and golden delicious which offer it for 350€ If one does not need it noone is forced to buy it e009052 schrieb: I wanted to order mine too, but it looks as if the 299 eur does not include the bag and headset as for other shops (trisoft, handheld linux). And I thought that were gifts from openmoko. Do I really have to order them separately? And which price? Ed. 2008/6/27 Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
You have to order them separately when buying from pulster. They are gift only when you order 10-pack from openmoko shop. What price? Have you tried www.pulster.de? ;-) ohin On 6/27/08, e009052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanted to order mine too, but it looks as if the 299 eur does not include the bag and headset as for other shops (trisoft, handheld linux). And I thought that were gifts from openmoko. Do I really have to order them separately? And which price? Ed. 2008/6/27 Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 18:11 +0200, Bumbl wrote: Freerunner 299€ Headset 9€ Bag 19€ summa summarum 237€ Cheaper than trisoft (which doesn't ship the bag and the headset at all) and golden delicious which offer it for 350€ If one does not need it noone is forced to buy it As discussed, the headset is mostly useless. Phone calls are impossible and it is a low impedance one thus lacking any bass frequencies. Plus the cable is quite stiff and while walking the earbuds will inevitably fall out of your ears. You can find them on ebay for one or two dollars new. The pouch is quite nice but lacks a clip to wear it on a belt. Probably you find a cheaper and better suitable one in a local shop. Naturally it will not have the cool openmoko logo... e009052 schrieb: I wanted to order mine too, but it looks as if the 299 eur does not include the bag and headset as for other shops (trisoft, handheld linux). And I thought that were gifts from openmoko. Do I really have to order them separately? And which price? Ed. 2008/6/27 Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No WLAN AP functionality
But if you can plug a usb wifi stick which the kernel does support AP mode you could then use the internal wifi as the uplink. Be subversive, provide free wifi at airports! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikko Rauhala Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:51 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: No WLAN AP functionality On pe, 2008-06-27 at 10:47 -0500, Hans L wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks this feature. You should be able to use ad hoc mode for most purposes, albeit not always as conveniently. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? would be nice. e.g. take the last gtk-based ui apps, rip out all libgsmd and neod dependencies and start communicating with the new middleware from FSO. this would basically solve all 'call stability' problems from gsmd times and give you the same, maintained middleware which in the future hopefully all openmoko devices will use. kind regards -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK. X11 on ASU?
On 27 Jun 2008, at 16:56, Marcus Bauer wrote: On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 17:27 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote: I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? Basically Openmoko has stopped the development of the GTK stack in order to start a new stack called ASU. There are some 10.000 developers for GTK who can start any time making software for the Neo while there are very few developers for ASU, maybe 50. ASU is only used on the Neo ... Am I right in understanding that the earlier software stack wrote GTK to the framebuffer, whereas the ASU required the incorporation of an X11 server to the image? Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Šenkeřík escreveu: What price? Have you tried www.pulster.de? ;-) I went there straight but figured out they only accept wire transfer which is a no-no for me. []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIZR3P2cB5Bt7H7YARAl7NAKDNuxBknEtHkefxAW1QUBPuaeYy2wCfS/ty 9q3fW9r5NyciBI2JObHlixA= =3k2y -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
You forget the biggest: Nokia (sells as many phones a day as iphones yet sold). Rest are just startups so far, or non-mobile-phone-related... And Nokia looks like interested in QTopia (as they bought Trolltech!) ;) Firefox (xulrunner, as the GUI is not appropiate) can be replaced by khtml, or however it is called now that it's part of qt 4.4. Openoffice in a phone does not currently makes sense (not adecuate gui, too heavyweight). Therefore I'm not really so sure whether to bet on GTK or on QT... --- El vie, 27/6/08, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Community Initiative GTK Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: viernes, 27 junio, 2008 4:49 Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Actually many companies have expressed their interest in a GTK based platform as it is perceived as more future proof than some kind of exotic software stack with a very small developer base. Lots of hesitation comes from the switch to this new stack-mix as all the big ones are going GTK: * Limo (pretty much all big mobile companies plus Intel etc) * Lips * Firefox * Openoffice * Ubuntu * Ubuntu mobile * Garmin IMHO it is very important for the future of Openmoko and open software on mobile phones to grow an ecosystem that involves both, many companies and many free software developers. Thus are there developers/companies on the list interested in maintaining GTK on the openmoko phones and starting a community initiative? Pretty much 90% is already there! Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
with bag and headphones Where do you saw a bag ? Is there any options ? I didn't see where ... I also ordered mine but without the debug board I did not found ... thanks. Mike Bumbl a écrit : Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
IIRC ubuntu mobile was only x86 based, and addressed to bigger devices than a phone (such as the Mobile Internet Devices - closer to n810 or even to asus EEE than to a phone). What I'd really love is to see android software stack running on the moko. Still not possible as android is not open, but they were supposed to free the whole stack, which should make possible to run on the moko (the binaries are compiled right now to a different flavour of ARM, see http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973 ). It would be the definitive hw plataform on which to develop ;). --- El vie, 27/6/08, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Community Initiative GTK Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: viernes, 27 junio, 2008 5:26 Is anyone planning to try maemo on the freerunner ? my question, too. and what about ubuntu mobile? does anybody know whether the plan to test it on om? at least it's the first open phone in the wild -- should be a given development platform for them ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
Just scroll down at http://www.pulster.de/index.htm?openmoko.htm Am Freitag, den 27.06.2008, 18:00 +0200 schrieb Mike Baroukh: with bag and headphones Where do you saw a bag ? Is there any options ? I didn't see where ... I also ordered mine but without the debug board I did not found ... thanks. Mike Bumbl a écrit : Christoph Pulster schrieb: what about the german distributors subscribed to this list any news on freerunners received? We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now. Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners. That's what the community needs. Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Ordered mine too with bag and headphones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- mfg/br, christian weßel Flurstraße 14 29640 Schneverdingen E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Telefon: +49 5193 97 14 95 Mobile: +49 171 357 59 57 http://wesselch.homelinux.org signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
2008/6/27 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Actually many companies have expressed their interest in a GTK based platform as it is perceived as more future proof than some kind of exotic software stack with a very small developer base. Marcus You will still be able to develop what you want with GTK if you want... but EFL are soo much beautiful ! (Hmm okay im an e17 user :) can one feel it ? ;)) EFL are optimized libs slower hardware, more powerful than gtk, wich is just a gui toolkit. EFL are so much more... -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0x39494CCB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK. X11 on ASU?
Am Freitag, 27. Juni 2008 19:02:04 schrieb Stroller: Am I right in understanding that the earlier software stack wrote GTK to the framebuffer, whereas the ASU required the incorporation of an X11 server to the image? No, the Gtk based (focused?) stack used X11 as well, using Kdrive as X-Server and matchbox as windows manager. cheers markus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? As an observer, it's my impression that ASU represents a significant architectural change that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened. Transparency is a virtue. g Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 17:27 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote: I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? Basically Openmoko has stopped the development of the GTK stack in order to start a new stack called ASU. There are some 10.000 developers for GTK who can start any time making software for the Neo while there are very few developers for ASU, maybe 50. ASU is only used on the Neo whereas your GTK apps will run on the desktop or on the new MID devices like the ASUS eeePC right out of the box. Naturally for an open source developer it is a difference if the software will run on some hundred Neos or on some million PCs and MIDs. I'm confused what this ASU stack is that you are talking about? When I look at the architecture picture on the framework page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework I don't see ASU. I see Gtk+ and Qtopia and Enlightenment (and X11). So this ASU stack is only used on the Neo and nowhere else? If ASU is Qtopia or EFL, then I'm not so sure that's true... Regards, -mike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
This has been done to death on the mailing list already. The archives lists it. Can we move on now please? On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? As an observer, it's my impression that ASU represents a significant architectural change that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened. Transparency is a virtue. g Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? As an observer, it's my impression that ASU represents a significant architectural change that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened. Transparency is a virtue. g Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Actually many companies have expressed their interest in a GTK based platform as it is perceived as more future proof than some kind of exotic software stack with a very small developer base. Lots of hesitation comes from the switch to this new stack-mix as all the big ones are going GTK: * Limo (pretty much all big mobile companies plus Intel etc) * Lips * Firefox * Openoffice * Ubuntu * Ubuntu mobile * Garmin Garmin's nuvifone is based on Qtopia. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Jisakiel wrote: You forget the biggest: Nokia (sells as many phones a day as iphones yet sold). 14 Nokia phones are made each second. Rest are just startups so far, or non-mobile-phone-related... And Nokia looks like interested in QTopia (as they bought Trolltech!) ;) Firefox (xulrunner, as the GUI is not appropiate) can be replaced by khtml, or however it is called now that it's part of qt 4.4. QWebKit Openoffice in a phone does not currently makes sense (not adecuate gui, too heavyweight). Therefore I'm not really so sure whether to bet on GTK or on QT... Qt will be a common API across all Nokia platforms. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
So just to be clear, FSO stands for FreeSmartphone.Org? And that stuff is working so well that it can replace gsmd and neod already? On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? would be nice. e.g. take the last gtk-based ui apps, rip out all libgsmd and neod dependencies and start communicating with the new middleware from FSO. this would basically solve all 'call stability' problems from gsmd times and give you the same, maintained middleware which in the future hopefully all openmoko devices will use. kind regards -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Mike Doody wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 17:27 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote: I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be present any more? Basically Openmoko has stopped the development of the GTK stack in order to start a new stack called ASU. There are some 10.000 developers for GTK who can start any time making software for the Neo while there are very few developers for ASU, maybe 50. ASU is only used on the Neo whereas your GTK apps will run on the desktop or on the new MID devices like the ASUS eeePC right out of the box. Naturally for an open source developer it is a difference if the software will run on some hundred Neos or on some million PCs and MIDs. I'm confused what this ASU stack is that you are talking about? A Qtpia build based on X11. (Qtopia is usually framebuffer) Fancy enlightenment launcher and applications menu. Qtopia base apps. And some individual new apps only seen on this platform. i think based on enlightenment APIs. I see Gtk+ and Qtopia and Enlightenment (and X11). Which is what ASU is composed of. ;) So this ASU stack is only used on the Neo and nowhere else? More or less the other way. It only works well on Freerunner. If ASU is Qtopia or EFL, then I'm not so sure that's true... It's both. -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Joachim Steiger wrote: Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? would be nice. e.g. take the last gtk-based ui apps, rip out all libgsmd and neod dependencies and start communicating with the new middleware from FSO. My idea too. I would like to see this... For what it is worth, the original GTK platform is nod dead. Attention just shifted away. And stability is ok as far as i can tell. Gsmd allegedly breaks standby. But works for me. Will see. I find the look and the UI design in general really well choosen. But it is not GTK what buys me. As long as GTK is there as a lib for compatibility. (which is AFAIK also the case with the other builds based on X11) But i would not mind if the Toolkit of the future would be EFL. What i like with the old Framework (GTK thingie) is that it is pretty much the same what other mobile communications systems use as a platform and riding on pretty well established tools used on everyday linux systems. GTK, GConf, D-Bus, (embedded) Evolution, X11, Avahi and probably some more like some gnome stuff... -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 16:49 +0200, Marcus Bauer wrote: I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Part of what you want need is distribution support. You might find it amusing to see how crazy fast GPE on Gentoo, a meta Linux distribution, can be ported to a phone: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/embedded/55281 (Make sure to check out the pictures). -Arthur ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 04:13 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Actually many companies have expressed their interest in a GTK based platform as it is perceived as more future proof than some kind of exotic software stack with a very small developer base. Lots of hesitation comes from the switch to this new stack-mix as all the big ones are going GTK: * Limo (pretty much all big mobile companies plus Intel etc) * Lips * Firefox * Openoffice * Ubuntu * Ubuntu mobile * Garmin Garmin's nuvifone is based on Qtopia. Not the upcoming ones: http://butterfeet.org/?p=57 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Initiative GTK
Marcus Bauer wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 04:13 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Marcus Bauer wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if there is any interest in maintaining the GTK software stack? Actually many companies have expressed their interest in a GTK based platform as it is perceived as more future proof than some kind of exotic software stack with a very small developer base. Lots of hesitation comes from the switch to this new stack-mix as all the big ones are going GTK: * Limo (pretty much all big mobile companies plus Intel etc) * Lips * Firefox * Openoffice * Ubuntu * Ubuntu mobile * Garmin Garmin's nuvifone is based on Qtopia. Not the upcoming ones: http://butterfeet.org/?p=57 That seems to be a different line of devices (in car navigation), and does not have any gsm features. http://www8.garmin.com/nuvifone/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: humor
Linux kernel 2.6.x series have the AP ability AFAIK. So it should just take a little coding to achieve this(maybe just a little shell script). If we want secure access like WPA flavours, then we will need some porting. On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://xkcd.org/440/ describes a use case for the neo:) Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? -Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır - Atilla Filiz Technische Universiteit Eindhoven Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: humor
On 2008-06-27, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://xkcd.org/440/ describes a use case for the neo:) Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? I think the WiFi chip does not support AP mode. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
On Jun 27, 2008, at 10:57 PM, xiangfu wrote: I feel the NEO is more than a phone. the idear of neo is a artifact. the neo is a kind of life style. iPod is an artifact for music lovers. Music is part of their lifestyle. The Neo is part of the lifestyle of every engineer that I work with at Openmoko. Coding is their life. Just like I share music with my friends through an ipod, these people proudly present their creations through a Neo. Whether that be a full suited application or a blinking light, it really is a pleasure to see things constantly 'being born'. I'm seeing people impact the material world everyday, in their own language, representing their own lifestyles. So yeah, maybe the Neo is more than a phone. Or maybe the iPod is just a music player. You guys decide. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
arne anka wrote: to be honest -- i never really could figure out what's the diff between 2d and 3d acceleration. so, what limitations does it impose? in a nutshell: 3D acceleration builds quickly 3D models on the display. Displaying a 3D application on non-accelerated video is slow and CPU (i.e. battery) intensive. 3D applications include games but not only. my personal interest for the OpenMoko is as a device to display Virtual Reality (VR). That's a 3D application where a picture is mapped on a sphere or cube and rotated by the user. 3D-accelerated displays have a much higher frame per second (FPS) resulting in smoother viewing or faster panning. You can see an example of such a VR at http://www.photopla.net/080302dufferin/ - click on the thumbnail to enter the VR in one of the four main technologies available: - QuickTime - Java - Flash - Shockwave If you are on Windows or on Mac, Shockwave is the only 3D accelerated viewer and you will see how much smoother it is than the rest of the pack (click on the help link to change viewer). If you are on Linux, http://freepv.sf.net/ can display QuickTime VR with 3d acceleration. In SVN there is even a version that will deal with the Shockwave format as well. I recently displayed a VR panorama with Java on a Nokia cell phone http://panospace.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/vr-panorama-on-a-nokia-cell-phone/ the viewer makes use of Java's 3D engine, though I am not sure if it uses a 3D accelerator on my specific phone (or on any phone). Java and Flash are just introducing 3D acceleration (for PCs) in their upcoming versions. Yuv ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
On 27 Jun 2008, at 19:01, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 17:00 -0400, Yuval Levy wrote: my personal interest for the OpenMoko is as a device to display Virtual Reality (VR). That's a 3D application where a picture is mapped on a sphere or cube and rotated by the user. 3D-accelerated displays have a much higher frame per second (FPS) resulting in smoother viewing or faster panning. the glamo chip is 3D but there is no driver on openmoko for using it. due to the way it is connected to the cpu the glamo chip slows the freerunner *down*. despite the faster cpu the freeruner is ~50% slower than the 1973. the cpu is blocked during any kind of graphics i/o and there have been discussions to simply remove it in order to speed the freerunner up. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: my personal interest for the OpenMoko is as a device to display Virtual Reality (VR). That's a 3D application where a picture is mapped on a sphere or cube and rotated by the user. 3D-accelerated displays have a much higher frame per second (FPS) resulting in smoother viewing or faster panning. You can see an example of such a VR at http://www.photopla.net/080302dufferin/ - click on the thumbnail to enter the VR in one of the four main technologies available: - QuickTime - Java - Flash - Shockwave That would be pretty cool to use the FreeRunner as a window to a 360 scene like this. Hold the phone in front of you and spin around: the accelerometers could detect movement, and adjust the view as you rotate. Angle it up or down, and the view would again correspond. Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
That would be pretty cool to use the FreeRunner as a window to a 360 scene like this. Hold the phone in front of you and spin around: the accelerometers could detect movement, and adjust the view as you rotate. Angle it up or down, and the view would again correspond. Hans Hehe, I just had another idea related to this. You could use this 360 window behavior to make an interactive Where's Waldo(or similar non copyright-infringing name ;-) ) type game. It would be pretty funny to see someone play it, rotating and tilting all over the place to find him. Also, moving the phone towards or away from your body could be used for zoom. Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
Hans L wrote: Hehe, I just had another idea related to this. You could use this 360 window behavior to make an interactive Where's Waldo http://www.photopla.net/070618assnat/ - select Flash from the help, and click around =8^D Hans L wrote: That would be pretty cool to use the FreeRunner as a window to a 360 scene like this. Hold the phone in front of you and spin around: the accelerometers could detect movement, and adjust the view as you rotate. Angle it up or down, and the view would again correspond. oh yes, pretty cool indeed. It has already been done with Android and Google's StreetView - check the video at http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/28/google-demos-the-htc-dream-at-i-o-conference/ but given Marcus Bauer's comments about the glamo chip (thank you!) I'm now inclined to pass on the GTA02 and wait for whatever comes next, hoping for serious improvements. My alternative is one of those UMPCs such as the OQO, but no accelerometer, GPS and GSM :-( Also I hoped to get a Google Summer of Code student to work on the viewer this year as well, like we had one last year. But my student (excellent guy) bailed out (and I don't blame him - the alternative opportunity was too good for him and I would have pushed him out had he not taken it. http://panospace.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/sad-news/ Yuv - going back to the sidelines and waiting for an improved hardware specs. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
On 2008-06-27, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Whenever I talk publicly about Openmoko, or so it seems, the following question is asked: How can you compete again the giants of this industry? For most of us, I'd like to think, the answer is obvious. Instead of answering, I usually return their question: How can they compete against us? [snap] You really know how to express yourself:) I cannot see how other phone companies can be compared. What I like so much about Openmoko, is that I am a part of it - that it is (also) my project. Openmoko will have success because they work very much for it. The community will help making the software and come up with ideas (by nagging or spamming the mailing list :) and you will take the best ideas and make them real. Keep making attractive hardware and the community will grow and make the software needed:) I hope Openmoko will be big enough to be able to force the hardware manufactures into GPL. Maybe they realize that GPL is not that bad, and that propritary drivers is far more expensive (in support for all their customers). We are all living on the same dream: the freedom to use the hardware we own in the way we want. Openmoko is making that dream come true. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
I am in Columbia. Drinking local coffee (yes Paola your coffee is thebest in the world) and thinking with the early morning clarity only those blessed with jag-lag can understand. Sean, I'm _really_ glad you enjoyed our Colombian Coffee, our food, and I hope you can keep in touch with the spirits that live in our landscapes. I'm sure that those spirits are friends of the spirit that lives in the computer [1]. [1] (I really like what Alan Perlis said) http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/book.html Start with things people are familiar with and find new ways to make them more qualitative, says Offray. Take SMS, he continues, instead of just plain text, why not send special compressed messages, readable only by Neos. We can use these as enablers to change mobile ecosystems. Hack their network to embed more freedoms for normal people. Add more meaning. Transform our Neo into an artifact. I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. Regards, Nelson.- (one very excited (amateur ^ 3)) -- http://arhuaco.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
On Saturday 28 June 2008 00:40:44 Nelson Castillo wrote: I am in Columbia. Drinking local coffee (yes Paola your coffee is thebest in the world) and thinking with the early morning clarity only those blessed with jag-lag can understand. Sean, I'm _really_ glad you enjoyed our Colombian Coffee, our food, and I hope you can keep in touch with the spirits that live in our landscapes. I'm sure that those spirits are friends of the spirit that lives in the computer [1]. [1] (I really like what Alan Perlis said) http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/book.html Start with things people are familiar with and find new ways to make them more qualitative, says Offray. Take SMS, he continues, instead of just plain text, why not send special compressed messages, readable only by Neos. We can use these as enablers to change mobile ecosystems. Hack their network to embed more freedoms for normal people. Add more meaning. Transform our Neo into an artifact. I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. Regards, Nelson.- (one very excited (amateur ^ 3)) i suspect that until one stick a computer on every lamp post in the world, with a text to speech program that spills out every clear text message sendt so that it can pick it up, people wont take notice. they understand putting letters in envelopes, because thats something they can see. but until you show them a packet sniffer, and explain that this can be used on any part of that messages journey, they will not understand it for electronic media. hell, i wish that mail apps would come with a standard system for signing and encryption. that would at least be a start. as long as people have to install third party apps to get that feature, it will not be used... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
7 Reasons Why the New iPhone 3G Sucks
http://www.retrevo.com/content/special-reports/2008/06/7-reasons-why-new-iphone-3g-sucks Lets see where we beet it! ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Let us impact the material world
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Nelson Castillo wrote: I think encrypted messages are crucial for freedom. I also think most people don't know how easy it is for others to see what they send through the networks. I cannot wait to see those Encrypted messages traveling free through _their_ networks to deliver _our_ messages. That means: - Phase out SMS in favour of IM (SMS char limit makes crypto hard, cheaper too) - Use OTR with IM (http://otr.cypherpunks.ca) I am not sure at the current state of IM clients, but there are python bindings for OTR at http://pyotr.pentabarf.de/ I will go at it as soon as I can order my Freerunner in Canada Paul ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No WLAN AP functionality
Crane, Matthew wrote: But if you can plug a usb wifi stick which the kernel does support AP mode you could then use the internal wifi as the uplink. I'm finding it difficult to source a cheap usb wifi stick that Linux supports in AP mode. Do you have an example of one that you know works in this way, and has Linux drivers available for armel (which immediately cuts out any madwifi drivers due to eabi) ? -- Rod ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner in Taiwan
xming wrote: Hi all, I will be in Taiwan during July and I would like to pick up a freerunner there. Does anyone knows where to buy? Or can I go by the FIC/OM office and get from the source :) Should be possible. But I'm out of the country so I don't know the if we have any left. Ask Harry ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fast questions about GTA03
On 6/27/08 Mikko Rauhala wrote: On pe, 2008-06-27 at 13:56 +0200, Lucas Bonnet wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I encourage you to get involved today. We need your help. Waiting for GTA03 is a possibility of course, but keep in mind how long it took us to go from 01 to 02. Sure, how can we help? If I may interject, I would presume Sean here is talking about buying what's available now (instead of next year, even with the GTA03 not being a major improvement anyway in most respects), and, you know, running with it. Exactly. We need to sell phones to stay in business and continue these ideas. So think of your USD $399 as a donation, if you like, towards your GTA03 ;-) -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko There will be a fork here at one point. There's a good bunch of us who wants a standard GTK+ environment as the main guis' for the phone. There's even some that don't want any QT on the phone, at all;). I just hope that the existing applications has been properly engineered, separating the core from the UI (MVC, three tier, PCMEF) so that it's just a matter of speaking a common protocol. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Esben Stien wrote: Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko its not really switching from gtk to something. gtk is still included and supported. there is 'just' no app which uses it in some of the images by default. the real change was from everything gtk to 'a mixture of libs which get used for what they're good at e-foo for custom-ui and qt-foo because its gsm-middleware works for now till the FSO is 'complete' and 'some people like it' (qt).. also some people 'like gtk'. linux on the desktop would never have been as big as it is now when there would not have been gtk AND qt. gnome AND kde. its not a total friendship everywhere, but also not a enmity. its something which makes both parties want the same thing, but try different ways. who follows which way doesnt matter, aslong as both want the same thing: write some app. in the end its an evolutionary process to better, free software (atleast on the idealistic side ;). so: gtk is still there and fully supported in openmoko. just install some app like tango-gps. its gtk and should 'just work' There will be a fork here at one point. There's a good bunch of us who wants a standard GTK+ environment as the main guis' for the phone. There's even some that don't want any QT on the phone, at all;). i can understand that. but there is no need to fork. just submit patches. we do not bite. on the contrary. I just hope that the existing applications has been properly engineered, separating the core from the UI (MVC, three tier, PCMEF) so that it's just a matter of speaking a common protocol. me too ;) that would revamping them to fso middleware easier. kind regards -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
Whatever the environment is, IMHO it should be coherent over all. Obviously the ideal solution would be indistinguishable QT or GTK apps, somehow like the gtk-qt theme acts in kde to hide the differences from qt apps to gtk. However file selectors, for instance, keep being different, spoiling the consistence of the experience. As I am not sure if making qtopia and gtk functionally equal is even possible, I'm all for a dual stack, somehow similar to the new framework vision. Below dbus, a single set of apps and *most important* apis share everybody's efforts to make the phone plainly *work*. Suspend issues, gsm, etc. Above, however, I'd fight for consistency over development freedom. I find a usable phone quite more important than a usable desktop (perhaps for being used to windows and half-broken linuxes to be used to find quirks), and for that you need consistency among a lot of other things. It's not just that the applications look different (such as QT vs GTK), it's that they act subtly different (file selectors, but also focus policies configured in different places, cut and paste behaviour, etc etc), which drives mad the user as he can't figure out the expected result of his actions. To give two examples, I'd say the series 60 nokia phones are quite well designed in that respect. I've been using them since 7650, I've gone through 3 different models, and all of them acted *exactly* the same. Copy / paste through all the applications, same *keyboard shortcuts* (quite important when you get faster), for instance in the menu, same way of switching apps, same contact manager or sms (which is far from perfect BTW, as I don't get along too well with the metaphore of everything goes to the inbox), same integration of all the apps between theirselves (send - via bluetooth, via sms, via MMS, mentioned copy paste, input methods -though dictionary should be present as well in single text fields-, etc). And, for me, old B/W series 40 are just perfect in that regard. When you get used to one other phones seem just *clunky* and unbearably *slow* and twitchy. And the same happened to me with the ipod (3G), which I believe it's a big part of its success. Only way to get this kind of consistency would be having full integrated sw stacks, not mixing GTK and QT, and of course working a lot on those boring usability issues :P. That's why I'm all for a dual stack, independent: if contacts, sms, etc. are shared between them (sounds difficult though), switching would be a similar matter as booting GNOME or KDE. Just a matter of taste... And although in KDE I usually open firefox (to get my passwords and extensions), and in GNOME I burn with k3b, appart from that you can get a very consistent and predictable experience in both. I vow for the same ways in openmoko... Worst for me would be the 8-years-ago linux experience: lots of incomplete and inconsistent apps, unpredictable behaviour while mixing, etc. Let's hope it doesn't take so long for us. And sorry for these long emails, while studying I tend to get distracted and --verbose :P. --- El sáb, 28/6/08, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt) Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: sábado, 28 junio, 2008 3:58 Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko There will be a fork here at one point. There's a good bunch of us who wants a standard GTK+ environment as the main guis' for the phone. There's even some that don't want any QT on the phone, at all;). I just hope that the existing applications has been properly engineered, separating the core from the UI (MVC, three tier, PCMEF) so that it's just a matter of speaking a common protocol. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:11:06 +0100 Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On 27 Jun 2008, at 19:01, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out. i had nothing to do with it. i, in fact suggested to keep the current gtk apps as-is just improve the desktop environment. others at openmoko insisted even on just qtopia - no x11. they wanted qtopia because for them it worked. we ended up with a compromise of a port of qtopia on x11 - but then also needing a custom wm. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
