Re: [Om2008.9] some kind of terminal program like Kermit?

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Wednesday, October 01, 2008 a las 02:04:16PM +0800, William Kenworthy 
escribió:

> Minicom works, as does cu (part of uucp)
> 
> However, there are a few GPRS guides around that tell you how to do it.
> check the wiki.  There are few wrinkles like stopping the GSM daemon
> when talking to the GSM modem.

Thanks for the hint. Yes, I'm aware of the Wiki about GPRS and reading
all this I was thinkig: well at certain point we need a terminal to the
'modem' of the SIM card to talk AT commands directly to see what the SIM
or network is responding. Thx again

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz
Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH
Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany
t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
e <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/
b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/
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Una computadora es como aire acondicionado, deja de funcionar si abres Windows

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RE: Regarding openmoko in qemu

 

Hello, 

  I installed the openmoko on qemu, it's worked well. But its
emulation part is too 

 

Slow. When I clicked on any application it takes around 1 minute to
start the application.

 

Second one is there is no close application logo on the application
itself, so I have to close 

 

the qemu to restart the openmoko. And third one is scrolling part is
also not there.

 

Any idea??

 

And I started with webpage
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu

 

Regards,

 

Prashant p sathe

 

 

 

 


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Re: [Om2008.9] some kind of terminal program like Kermit?

[William Kenworthy]

Minicom works, as does cu (part of uucp)

However, there are a few GPRS guides around that tell you how to do it.
check the wiki.  There are few wrinkles like stopping the GSM daemon
when talking to the GSM modem.

BillK



On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 07:36 +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Next step on my agenda is bring-up the GPRS connection. To better
> understand and test the various AT-commands of the chat-script I'd like
> to have some kind of terminal program like Kermit to talk directly from
> stdin to the serial device /dev/ttySAC0. Any idea what I could use for
> this in the FR?
> 
> Thx
> 
>   matthias
-- 
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Home in Perth!

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Re: dead battery

[William Kenworthy]

These are my understandings from lots of reading and previous posts
between myself and Andy Green and others on the subject - should all be
in the archives.  With 2007.2 I was hit one out of every 3 overnight
suspends ending in a flat battery.  At least with 2008.9 its rarer (but
does happen :(

With the later u-boots, usb default is 100ma as soon as its plugged in.
This unfortunately is less than a running Fr needs.  Normally as soon as
the operating system is up enough, it will negotiate up to 500ma with
the host, or in the case of the wall charger, read the sense resistor
and see that 1A is available.  When the OS is suspended, the PMU manages
the charge until the battery is charged whereupon it switches off - and
stays off.  If the OS is running, it will cycle back on when the battery
level falls to 10-20% (reports vary) as the OS can reset and renegotiate
the charge level.

If the battery is very low (i.e., the internal fail-safe disconnects
it), remove it from the phone for 30 seconds or so.  This allows the
fail-safe to reset (this is what I think happens based on my
observations) so the 100ma can get to the battery, and also reset the
phone hardware - in particular the GSM modem which is directly connected
to the battery and is thought to be root cause by Andy Green - possibly
goes into a wierd state as power drops as well, preventing restart until
reset.

The power rail of course drops due to the inrush current much more
during startup with a low battery than normal, causing one chip (USB I
think) to detect a dangerously low voltage and issue a shutdown.  So you
cant get the phone to boot until the battery has had a few minutes of
charge.

In my case, USB to my laptop or a desktop machine does it.
Remove/pause/replace battery
plug into USB for 5-10 minutes
remove/pause/replug USB cable and normal boot will happen within a few
seconds.

The wall charger should work as well, but on my one try it didnt -
possibly because the u-boot wasnt new enough at the time.

Recommendation - use a late (latest!) u-boot.

BillK



On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 22:13 -0700, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > Vince,
> > When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied 
> > charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it 
> > timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the 
> > NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted.
> > 
> > -Shawn
> >
> 
> I'm confused. I thought that we didn't turn on the charger until we 
> booted into Linux. Am I wrong? Do we charge in u-boot, even at a low rate?
> 
> Michael
> 
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Re: [debian] Sephora 0.1 - Suggestions needed

[Michele Renda]

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Hash: SHA1

Robin Paulson wrote:
> not sure if anyone's suggested this, but i'd like to know whether the
> usb port is in host or device mode - reduces the risk of me plugging
> in to my desktop when i shouldn't and doing some damage

It already do this :) There is in the Usb section a select: it the state
change there is a dbus signal that change the active element of the
select box

>> Please send me others idea / suggestions, they will be very apreciated
>>
>> Michele Renda
> 
> make it configurable, perhaps with profiles - allow any widget to be
> hidden;

This is a very good idea, I'd like to do it. The problem is that is was
born more with a settings manager, than something for every day use (it
realy born because I don't like too much to type on the keyboard :)

when i'm mapping for osm for instance, i'm not too bothered
> about the status of the accelerometers

Mmm... what you need, I think, is more the openmoko-panel, that I think
can give you more real time values (it can simply stay near your clock)

Best regards
Michele Renda
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[Om2008.9] some kind of terminal program like Kermit?

[Matthias Apitz]

Hello,

Next step on my agenda is bring-up the GPRS connection. To better
understand and test the various AT-commands of the chat-script I'd like
to have some kind of terminal program like Kermit to talk directly from
stdin to the serial device /dev/ttySAC0. Any idea what I could use for
this in the FR?

Thx

matthias
-- 
Matthias Apitz
Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH
Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany
t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
e <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/
b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/
A computer is like an air conditioner, it stops working when you open Windows
Una computadora es como aire acondicionado, deja de funcionar si abres Windows

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SV: SV: email

[Jörgen Lidholm]

I don't even have a FR yet. So, didn't try it either.

/Jörgen

> -Ursprungligt meddelande-
> Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] För William Kenworthy
> Skickat: den 1 oktober 2008 03:22
> Till: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Ämne: Re: SV: email
> 
> Where did you get the package from?  That site doesnt have binaries and
> its not listed in the normal repos that I can find.
> 
> BillK
> 
> On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 19:17 +0200, Jörgen Lidholm wrote:
> > What about tinymail http://tinymail.org?
> >
> > /Jörgen
> >
> > -Ursprungligt meddelande-
> > Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] För W.Kenworthy
> > Skickat: den 30 september 2008 07:36
> > Till: List for Openmoko community discussion
> > Ämne: Re: email
> >
> > Tried it - at the small screen setting and smallest I could set font
> the
> > email got only 2 -3 words per line!  Almost useless.  Rather than
> have
> > something adapted from the PC world, we need something designed for a
> > PDA.  e.g., Palms Versamail gets quite a panning in general, but its
> > still far better than anything Ive yet tried on the FR :(
> >
> > Mutt or pine in a console might be a better choice, but have not seen
> a
> > package for them yet.
> >
> > BillK
> >
> > On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 06:45 +0200, Petr Vanek wrote:
> > > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:18:30 +0800
> > > William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (WK)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >I tried claws on 2007.2 - interface couldnt handle the screen.
> > > >
> > >
> > > claws could theoretically actually do - i use it daily on my
> business
> > > desktop and i tried once on FR, didn't have time since then, but
> the
> > > speed was OK (i have the same speed issues  with qtmail)
> > >
> > > In Claws Mail, try in Menu: View->Layout->Small Screen
> > >
> > > then look up the keyboard shortcuts, these are excellent (only few,
> > > say 5, but very powerful)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Petr Vaněk
> > > http://biodynamika.cz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> --
> William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Home in Perth!
> 
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SV: SV: email

[Jörgen Lidholm]

> -Ursprungligt meddelande-
> Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] För arne anka
> Skickat: den 30 september 2008 21:50
> Till: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Ämne: Re: SV: email
> 
> > What about tinymail http://tinymail.org?
> 
> is there a gui?
> the page states, it is a framework but the demos show some kind of gui
> --
> but i can't find further informations.

I have never used it myself, but I guess there must be a GUI for it.

According to the webpage:
"It implements certain default ui components that can be used out of the
box."

Maybe these are all that is needed? Could be worth looking into.

/Jörgen



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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone

[Michael Shiloh]

Andy Green wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> |> Thanks for this helpfully complete characterization.
> |
> | Since you found it illuminating, I'll add it to the wiki
> |
> |> Do you happen to know if a Nokia battery (such as the BL-5c) will
> |> charge in the FreeRunner?
> |
> | Excellent question. That's the one case I left out. I'm pretty sure it
> | does, because I'm pretty sure that we do not check for battery brand.
> |
> | Any checking of battery brand would happen in software, where we can see
> | it (and remove if desired).
> |
> | True, there is a chip that handles charging, but I'm pretty sure that
> | battery brand is not one of the parameters we feed it. Perhaps one of
> | the kernel people can confirm this.
> 
> Right, we are clueless what that battery is for charging purposes, it'll
> give it a go charging it in a fairly adaptive way if the terminals line
> up with the battery socket.


Thanks Andy! I'll add this to the wiki.

(Sorry I reposted to the kernel list before I saw your response.)

Michael


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[om2008-testing] qpe cpu usage when dialer open

[Sarton O'Brien]

96% cpu usage just to have the dialer open. Awesome! :)

Updated a couple of hours ago. Anyone aware of this?

Sarton

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Re: dead battery

[Michael Shiloh]

> Vince,
> When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied 
> charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it 
> timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the 
> NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted.
> 
> -Shawn
>

I'm confused. I thought that we didn't turn on the charger until we 
booted into Linux. Am I wrong? Do we charge in u-boot, even at a low rate?

Michael

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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone

[Michael Shiloh]

Dale Schumacher wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Nokia devices (phones and stand-alone chargers) will not charge
>> non-Nokia batteries, most likely because they can't be sure they have
>> the correct charging parameters.
>>
>> Most after-market or no-name brands of Nokia-compatible chargers don't
>> test the make of the battery, most likely because adding the capability
>> to perform this test would add to the cost of the charger.
>>
>> Thus:
>>
>> * You can use a Nokia or Nokia-compatible BL-4C, BL-5C, or BL-6C in the Neo
>>
>> * You can charge the Neo battery in a Nokia-compatible charger that is
>> not Nokia branded
>>
>> * You can NOT charge the Neo battery in a Nokia branded phone or charger
> 
> Added to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Battery#USB_charger
> 


Thanks!

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Re: set next boot

[Tyler Oderkirk]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Petr Vanek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Petr Vanek
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> [...] is there any
>>> command that would set priority for next boot?

by some odd luck, i just stumbled across this writeup on how grub does
it: http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/OneShotGrub

-tyler

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Re: [debian] Sephora 0.1 - Suggestions needed

[Robin Paulson]

2008/9/25 Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> [USB]
> Show a list of attached USB device (when in host mode, like an lsusb)

not sure if anyone's suggested this, but i'd like to know whether the
usb port is in host or device mode - reduces the risk of me plugging
in to my desktop when i shouldn't and doing some damage

>
> Please send me others idea / suggestions, they will be very apreciated
>
> Michele Renda

make it configurable, perhaps with profiles - allow any widget to be
hidden; when i'm mapping for osm for instance, i'm not too bothered
about the status of the accelerometers

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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone (was: Re: dead battery)

[Dale Schumacher]

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Nokia devices (phones and stand-alone chargers) will not charge
> non-Nokia batteries, most likely because they can't be sure they have
> the correct charging parameters.
>
> Most after-market or no-name brands of Nokia-compatible chargers don't
> test the make of the battery, most likely because adding the capability
> to perform this test would add to the cost of the charger.
>
> Thus:
>
> * You can use a Nokia or Nokia-compatible BL-4C, BL-5C, or BL-6C in the Neo
>
> * You can charge the Neo battery in a Nokia-compatible charger that is
> not Nokia branded
>
> * You can NOT charge the Neo battery in a Nokia branded phone or charger

Added to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Battery#USB_charger

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Re: voip on Debian

[Brandon Kruse]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1




Interesting. Good find and setup.

I am currently working on some iax2 related code for gta02 and future
phones as far as the voip stack.

I was running into some audio problems for awhile, but am starting to
get all those little bugs worked out.

There was ideas of a really slimmed down version of Asterisk being the
_actual_ client in which people will use. This will allow them to use
some of the core functionality of Asterisk as well.

We will see where it goes.

I am pretty familiar with Asterisk Channel drivers :)

And it all depends on how easily the technology you are hooking into is.

- -bk

Florian Hackenberger wrote:
| On Saturday 06 September 2008, TL Mieszkowski wrote:
|> There is the potential to do some really cool stuff with asterisk it
|> has quite a bit of functionality.
|
| We should really write a channel driver for the Neo (wolfson codec & GSM
| modem daemon). We could then use asterisk for custom voicemail boxes,
| dialplan routing (think time based blacklists etc.) for calls coming in
| over GSM. As far as I'm familiar with the asterisk channel modules,
| that should not be too difficult.
|
| Cheers,
|   Florian
|

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Re: dead battery

[Brock]

On 2008.09.30.16.37, Shawn prjktdtnt Thompson wrote:
| When trying to get into NOR do you already have it plugged into your 
| charger? That is how I was able to finally get mine to boot, you only 
| need the actual OpenMoko charger until it starts up then you can use 
| whatever USB charger you prefer. Just plug into wall-socket and phone, 
| start NOR twice, viola.
| 
| -Shawn

As an added tip -- when I ran my battery dry I couldn't get it to boot.
I took out the sim and SD card and it booted (with NOR) instantly while
plugged in with the wall charger.

--Brock


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Re: Dialer UI Design

[justin daly]

yes fso as the base with an adaptive beyesian feedback driven user
interface. it would be great to see your top actions bubble up in the
interface's navigation: everyone with a customly trained 'runner. i say
written in xul as xumo :)

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Sander van Grieken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Ian-3 wrote:
> >
> > Qtopia sux, it's ugly and not pratical.
> >
> > We need absolutely the FSO with dialer, sms and contacts ( instead of
> zhone
> > ) or SHR.
>
> I think Qtopia is beautiful and the most practical at the moment. But my
> biggest gripe
> is that it's not customizable and has no open development model.
>
> I agree that FSO provides the best foundation. I'd like to see a
> (non-nokia/tt) Qt based
> UI on top of that.
>
> Sander
>
>
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Re: SV: email

[William Kenworthy]

Where did you get the package from?  That site doesnt have binaries and
its not listed in the normal repos that I can find.

BillK

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 19:17 +0200, Jörgen Lidholm wrote:
> What about tinymail http://tinymail.org?
> 
> /Jörgen
> 
> -Ursprungligt meddelande-
> Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För W.Kenworthy
> Skickat: den 30 september 2008 07:36
> Till: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Ämne: Re: email
> 
> Tried it - at the small screen setting and smallest I could set font the
> email got only 2 -3 words per line!  Almost useless.  Rather than have
> something adapted from the PC world, we need something designed for a
> PDA.  e.g., Palms Versamail gets quite a panning in general, but its
> still far better than anything Ive yet tried on the FR :(
> 
> Mutt or pine in a console might be a better choice, but have not seen a
> package for them yet.
> 
> BillK
> 
> On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 06:45 +0200, Petr Vanek wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:18:30 +0800
> > William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (WK)
> > wrote:
> > 
> > >I tried claws on 2007.2 - interface couldnt handle the screen.
> > >
> > 
> > claws could theoretically actually do - i use it daily on my business
> > desktop and i tried once on FR, didn't have time since then, but the
> > speed was OK (i have the same speed issues  with qtmail)
> > 
> > In Claws Mail, try in Menu: View->Layout->Small Screen
> > 
> > then look up the keyboard shortcuts, these are excellent (only few,
> > say 5, but very powerful)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Petr Vaněk
> > http://biodynamika.cz
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
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> 
> 
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-- 
William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Home in Perth!

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Re: dead battery

[William Kenworthy]

I suggest removing/replacing the battery briefly before plugging into
the wall/charger - it seems GSM is the main culprit and it can "latch
up" draining the battery.  Resetting by removing power helps. (by
default, the charger only accepts 100ma which is less than the FR draws
in normal operation, so any more than this and its going backwards :)

A later u-boot than originally shipped helps the boot process - the
early u-boots almost always required a jump start and wouldnt accept a
residual charge (or didnt appear to for me).  Later u-boots stagger the
startup process so there is less of a negative current spike - this
generated a voltage drop which with a drained battery causes the control
chip to shut down the FR as it thinks the battery is really dead :)


BillK



On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 09:52 +1000, Sarton O'Brien wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:45:08 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
> > Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again,
> > would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that
> > people don't have to use workarounds in the future.
> > -Shawn
> 
> I don't think it is as complicated as that. I think it's merely the amount of 
> charge the FR is able to negotiate when powered off. Depending on the level 
> of 
> 'dead' determines how long you need to trickle charge it before anything 
> useful occurs.
> 
> I'd say battery maintenance and usage patterns may contribute also.
> 
> From what I have seen on this list, I don't think this situation will change 
> in a hurry, if ever.
> 
> Sarton
> 
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Re: dead battery

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 10:20:59 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
> > Yes, I understand. I got the impression it was a design flaw and not
> > something that could be addressed,  that's all. I could be completely
> > wrong though. Maybe the phone can go into some kind of holding pattern
> > when close to flat or something, to mitigate the effect. If it's
> > something a u-boot update can fix then that would awesome ... but I'm not
> > holding my breath.
> >
> > Sarton
> >
>
> That is how I understood it too but that is something that if they're
> unable to address on 1973/FreeRunner they need to address before GTA03, IMO

Of course ... unless there's an 'intentional commercial suicide' department 
within openmoko ;)

Sarton

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Re: [2008.9] Wifi very unreliable

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 19:06:28 Matthias Apitz wrote:
> this works very unreliable; in (let's say) 8 of 10 cases it can't
> associate to the AP, even not after fresh re-boots and independently if
> the AP at my home works with WEP or in my office with WPA;
>
> what can I do? is someone willing to look into the debug output of the
> wpa_supplicant? or do I need somehow an update in the kernel drivers?
>
> I've installed as well lint-wifi; this does not even see the AP next
> door and to which I'm now after 2-3 tries connected too; strange, isn't
> it? there must be something broken in kernel land, I think;

I use testing and have varied success with wifi. I don't bother with trying to 
identify what going on by what's being reported. It has been stated on here 
that the issues with the driver are great enough that statistics may be 
skewed.

What I have witnessed is that sometimes it appears the wireless hardware is 
next to useless ... but then under a different update or on another day it 
functions flawlessly even in a problematic area of the house. When I was 
running stable with no real updates coming down, I couldn't even be bothered 
with wireless.

At the moment, I am having issues. Selecting wireless 'on' results in nothing 
being displayed. I have to push all my scripts back across so I haven't tested 
manually yet.

So in summary, I don't think it's worth attempting to figure this out as an 
end user as yet. I believe it's driver/kernel related. The hardware itself is 
quite new so it doesn't really surprise me. I'd wait for a statement as 
_everybody_ has this problem. I can't imagine the devs are sitting there with 
freerunners and working wireless ;)

Sarton

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Re: Stable OM distro

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Maciej Piechotka wrote:
> What's currently the most stable?
> I'd need to:
> - Entry pin (I haven't manage to do it in 2008.8 despite moving pen up)
> - Phone/Recive SMS
> - Have GPS/WiFi
> - Have USB Networking for initial setup
>
> FSO: Not stable (breakes calls, not recive sms etc.)
> 2008.8: Can't enter pin
> 2007.11: Breakes after update (cannot boot)
> celtune: usb0: no such device
>
> I had perfectly set-up phone but it had broken and I had it replaced.
>
> Regards
>   
Maciej,
Have you given Qtopia a shot? Also try the trick with 2008 again, 
sometimes if you slide the pen up on the keyboard it doesn't register, 
took me a few tries to get it two switch keyboards. Also give FDOM a 
shot, it's like 2008 but has extra programs by default and the keyboard 
has an easier selection method.

-Shawn

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Re: dead battery

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Sarton O'Brien wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:56:00 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
>   
>> What I had meant is that I hope they find away to allow 1000mA charging
>> while powered off so that you don't have to let it tricle charge for the
>> entire night to power it on at only partial power. Of all the phones
>> I've owned none of them had this problem and it's probably the most
>> annoying problem I can think of with the OpenMoko. Lucikly for me I'm
>> the type to plug in my phone daily so it isn't a problem but I could see
>> it becoming one in the future when more and more people start using the
>> OpenMoko products
>> 
>
> Yes, I understand. I got the impression it was a design flaw and not 
> something 
> that could be addressed,  that's all. I could be completely wrong though. 
> Maybe the phone can go into some kind of holding pattern when close to flat 
> or 
> something, to mitigate the effect. If it's something a u-boot update can fix 
> then that would awesome ... but I'm not holding my breath.
>
> Sarton
>
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>   
That is how I understood it too but that is something that if they're 
unable to address on 1973/FreeRunner they need to address before GTA03, IMO.

-Shawn

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Stable OM distro

[Maciej Piechotka]

What's currently the most stable?
I'd need to:
- Entry pin (I haven't manage to do it in 2008.8 despite moving pen up)
- Phone/Recive SMS
- Have GPS/WiFi
- Have USB Networking for initial setup

FSO: Not stable (breakes calls, not recive sms etc.)
2008.8: Can't enter pin
2007.11: Breakes after update (cannot boot)
celtune: usb0: no such device

I had perfectly set-up phone but it had broken and I had it replaced.

Regards
-- 
I've probably left my head... somewhere. Please wait untill I find it.
Homepage (pl_PL): http://uzytkownik.jogger.pl/
(GNU/)Linux User: #425935 (see http://counter.li.org/)



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Re: dead battery

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:56:00 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
> What I had meant is that I hope they find away to allow 1000mA charging
> while powered off so that you don't have to let it tricle charge for the
> entire night to power it on at only partial power. Of all the phones
> I've owned none of them had this problem and it's probably the most
> annoying problem I can think of with the OpenMoko. Lucikly for me I'm
> the type to plug in my phone daily so it isn't a problem but I could see
> it becoming one in the future when more and more people start using the
> OpenMoko products

Yes, I understand. I got the impression it was a design flaw and not something 
that could be addressed,  that's all. I could be completely wrong though. 
Maybe the phone can go into some kind of holding pattern when close to flat or 
something, to mitigate the effect. If it's something a u-boot update can fix 
then that would awesome ... but I'm not holding my breath.

Sarton

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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Lorn Potter]

Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
> Lorn Potter wrote:
>> I wrote:
>>> but... Where are sources and binaries?
>> We usually release the open source packages a couple days after the 
>> commercial release.
>>
>> They will be at the new site:
>> http://qtextended.org
>>
>> As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend.
> 
> Cool... Btw I've seen that there are also some commercial (premium)
> modules that could be integrated with Qtopia, also if they're not open
> source. Well, will be there a way to get the torch mobile browser, for
> example?

This is the full functionality Iris web browser. This was not developed by Qt 
Software. There is a 
simple example web browser in the qtextended sources. You would have to contact 
the premium module 
companies to find out if they are releasing a version for the Neo.

None of the 'premium' modules were developed by Qt Software. Qt Extended is 
fully dual licensed.

> According to its homepage, it shouldn't be free (as speech) but it seems
> at least freeware. I don't like too much these things, but it could be a
> good tool for who needs a better browser.
> 
> Also the eZi keyboard seems quite pretty... :|
> 
> 
> [1]
> http://trolltech.com/products/device-creation/qt-extended/premium-modules/torch-mobile



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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

Got it. Thanks. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:58:57 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

Vince M. Clark wrote: 
> As long as it eventually comes back on I'm fine. I didn't realize that 
> the wall charger would eventually get enough charge in the battery to 
> boot it. My impression from the other thread was that once the battery 
> was dead you were screwed without an external charger or extra battery. 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Sarton O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 
>  
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:52:32 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
> Subject: Re: dead battery 
> 
> On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:45:08 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote: 
> > Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again, 
> > would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that 
> > people don't have to use workarounds in the future. 
> > -Shawn 
> 
> I don't think it is as complicated as that. I think it's merely the 
> amount of 
> charge the FR is able to negotiate when powered off. Depending on the 
> level of 
> 'dead' determines how long you need to trickle charge it before anything 
> useful occurs. 
> 
> I'd say battery maintenance and usage patterns may contribute also. 
> 
> From what I have seen on this list, I don't think this situation will 
> change 
> in a hurry, if ever. 
> 
> Sarton 
> 
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>  
> 
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> 
Nope, don't need the external, but if it is flat dead to where NOR won't 
start you'll be a few hours (charges at 50mA IIRC) before you can even 
try again. 

-Shawn 

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Re: dead battery

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Vince M. Clark wrote:
> As long as it eventually comes back on I'm fine. I didn't realize that 
> the wall charger would eventually get enough charge in the battery to 
> boot it. My impression from the other thread was that once the battery 
> was dead you were screwed without an external charger or extra battery.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Sarton O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:52:32 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: dead battery
>
> On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:45:08 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
> > Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again,
> > would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that
> > people don't have to use workarounds in the future.
> > -Shawn
>
> I don't think it is as complicated as that. I think it's merely the 
> amount of
> charge the FR is able to negotiate when powered off. Depending on the 
> level of
> 'dead' determines how long you need to trickle charge it before anything
> useful occurs.
>
> I'd say battery maintenance and usage patterns may contribute also.
>
> From what I have seen on this list, I don't think this situation will 
> change
> in a hurry, if ever.
>
> Sarton
>
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>
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>   
Nope, don't need the external, but if it is flat dead to where NOR won't 
start you'll be a few hours (charges at 50mA IIRC) before you can even 
try again.

-Shawn

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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

As long as it eventually comes back on I'm fine. I didn't realize that the wall 
charger would eventually get enough charge in the battery to boot it. My 
impression from the other thread was that once the battery was dead you were 
screwed without an external charger or extra battery. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Sarton O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:52:32 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:45:08 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote: 
> Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again, 
> would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that 
> people don't have to use workarounds in the future. 
> -Shawn 

I don't think it is as complicated as that. I think it's merely the amount of 
charge the FR is able to negotiate when powered off. Depending on the level of 
'dead' determines how long you need to trickle charge it before anything 
useful occurs. 

I'd say battery maintenance and usage patterns may contribute also. 

>From what I have seen on this list, I don't think this situation will change 
in a hurry, if ever. 

Sarton 

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Re: dead battery

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Sarton O'Brien wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:45:08 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
>   
>> Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again,
>> would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that
>> people don't have to use workarounds in the future.
>> -Shawn
>> 
>
> I don't think it is as complicated as that. I think it's merely the amount of 
> charge the FR is able to negotiate when powered off. Depending on the level 
> of 
> 'dead' determines how long you need to trickle charge it before anything 
> useful occurs.
>
> I'd say battery maintenance and usage patterns may contribute also.
>
> From what I have seen on this list, I don't think this situation will change 
> in a hurry, if ever.
>
> Sarton
>
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>   
What I had meant is that I hope they find away to allow 1000mA charging 
while powered off so that you don't have to let it tricle charge for the 
entire night to power it on at only partial power. Of all the phones 
I've owned none of them had this problem and it's probably the most 
annoying problem I can think of with the OpenMoko. Lucikly for me I'm 
the type to plug in my phone daily so it isn't a problem but I could see 
it becoming one in the future when more and more people start using the 
OpenMoko products.

-Shawn

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Re: dead battery

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:45:08 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
> Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again,
> would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that
> people don't have to use workarounds in the future.
> -Shawn

I don't think it is as complicated as that. I think it's merely the amount of 
charge the FR is able to negotiate when powered off. Depending on the level of 
'dead' determines how long you need to trickle charge it before anything 
useful occurs.

I'd say battery maintenance and usage patterns may contribute also.

>From what I have seen on this list, I don't think this situation will change 
in a hurry, if ever.

Sarton

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Re: dead battery

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:37:22 Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson wrote:
> Vince M. Clark wrote:
> > Thanks Shawn. I have tried NOR boot (holding aux button while pressing
> > power button, then releasing aux  button.) I cannot even get that far.
> > I'm going to leave it plugged into the wall charger overnight and see
> > what happens. In the meantime i ordered an after market Nokia battery
> > charger. They are cheap but it looks like it may take a week or so to
> > get it.
> >
> > Vince,
> > When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied
> > charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it
> > timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the
> > NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted.
>
> When trying to get into NOR do you already have it plugged into your
> charger? That is how I was able to finally get mine to boot, you only
> need the actual OpenMoko charger until it starts up then you can use
> whatever USB charger you prefer. Just plug into wall-socket and phone,
> start NOR twice, viola.

Not to be a killjoy but I think there may be varied levels of 'dead'. I've had 
a similar situation but it's not always he case.

When you can't get anything to happen, the only solution is to plug it in and 
go to bed (assuming you have no other options at hand).

Sarton

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Re: [debian] install failure, fso-frameworkd is not going to be installed

[Tha_Man]

Neil Jerram wrote:
> 
> 2008/9/28 Neil Jerram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> Solution!
> - Put both testing and unstable in your sources.list.
> - Install aptitude.  (Possibly not actually necessary, but I'm used to
> it.)
> - Using aptitude:
>   - Install libcaca0 and libcucul0, taking care to choose the "14"
> versions rather than the "15" ones.
>   - Install gstreamer0.10-plugins-good.
>   - Install fso-frameworkd.
> - Now it is clear that the dependency issue is solved, so back out to
> the shell and the installer script:
>   ./install.sh fso
>   /etc/init.d/qpe stop # if you are running Qtopia, as I am
>   umount /dev/mmcblk0p1
>   umount /dev/mmcblk0p2
>   ./install.sh mount configuration kernel unmount
> 
> Regards,
>  Neil
> 
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> 
Great find! I ran into this yesterday as well, but I have another question:
I'm using Om2008.9 to install Debian on my Freerunner, how do I 'install'
libcaca0 and libcucul0? 
I know I can access the card, but how do I install these libs to it?
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/-debian--install-failure%2C-fso-frameworkd-is-not-going-to-be-installed-tp1124046p1130308.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: dead battery

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Vince M. Clark wrote:
> Yes. I have my fr plugged into the OpenMoko wall charger. Then I try 
> NOR boot but nothing happens. I have tried NOR boot plugged in and not 
> plugged in.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:37:22 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: dead battery
>
> Vince M. Clark wrote:
> > Thanks Shawn. I have tried NOR boot (holding aux button while pressing
> > power button, then releasing aux  button.) I cannot even get that far.
> > I'm going to leave it plugged into the wall charger overnight and see
> > what happens. In the meantime i ordered an after market Nokia battery
> > charger. They are cheap but it looks like it may take a week or so to
> > get it.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"
> > 
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:31:17 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> > Subject: Re: dead battery
> >
> > Vince M. Clark wrote:
> > > My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it.
> > >
> > > The following thread offered three possible solutions:
> > >
> > 
> http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
> > >
> > > Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work
> > > with the Freerunner battery?
> > >
> > > Vince Clark
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > (303) 493-6723
> > > 
> 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >  
> > Vince,
> > When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied
> > charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it
> > timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the
> > NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted.
> >
> > -Shawn
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >  
> When trying to get into NOR do you already have it plugged into your
> charger? That is how I was able to finally get mine to boot, you only
> need the actual OpenMoko charger until it starts up then you can use
> whatever USB charger you prefer. Just plug into wall-socket and phone,
> start NOR twice, viola.
>
> -Shawn
>
> ___
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>
> ___
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>   
Odd. Sadly that is the only way I was able to get mine going again, 
would be nice to see a patch that corrects the issue somehow so that 
people don't have to use workarounds in the future.
-Shawn

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Re: dead battery

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:31:22 Vince M. Clark wrote:
> Not that long on the wall charger. I'll leave it overnight and see what
> happens.
>
> I have left in on the USB charger for a few hours with no luck.

The 'leave it overnight' scenario is the best one I encounter for a dead 
battery ;) ... I think you'll be right.

Sarton

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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

Yes. I have my fr plugged into the OpenMoko wall charger. Then I try NOR boot 
but nothing happens. I have tried NOR boot plugged in and not plugged in. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:37:22 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

Vince M. Clark wrote: 
> Thanks Shawn. I have tried NOR boot (holding aux button while pressing 
> power button, then releasing aux button.) I cannot even get that far. 
> I'm going to leave it plugged into the wall charger overnight and see 
> what happens. In the meantime i ordered an after market Nokia battery 
> charger. They are cheap but it looks like it may take a week or so to 
> get it. 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 
>  
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:31:17 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
> Subject: Re: dead battery 
> 
> Vince M. Clark wrote: 
> > My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it. 
> > 
> > The following thread offered three possible solutions: 
> > 
> http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
>  
> > 
> > Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work 
> > with the Freerunner battery? 
> > 
> > Vince Clark 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > (303) 493-6723 
> >  
> > 
> > ___ 
> > Openmoko community mailing list 
> > community@lists.openmoko.org 
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community 
> > 
> Vince, 
> When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied 
> charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it 
> timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the 
> NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted. 
> 
> -Shawn 
> 
> ___ 
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>  
> 
> ___ 
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> 
When trying to get into NOR do you already have it plugged into your 
charger? That is how I was able to finally get mine to boot, you only 
need the actual OpenMoko charger until it starts up then you can use 
whatever USB charger you prefer. Just plug into wall-socket and phone, 
start NOR twice, viola. 

-Shawn 

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Re: dead battery

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Vince M. Clark wrote:
> Thanks Shawn. I have tried NOR boot (holding aux button while pressing 
> power button, then releasing aux  button.) I cannot even get that far. 
> I'm going to leave it plugged into the wall charger overnight and see 
> what happens. In the meantime i ordered an after market Nokia battery 
> charger. They are cheap but it looks like it may take a week or so to 
> get it.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:31:17 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: dead battery
>
> Vince M. Clark wrote:
> > My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it.
> >
> > The following thread offered three possible solutions:
> > 
> http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
> >
> > Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work
> > with the Freerunner battery?
> >
> > Vince Clark
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > (303) 493-6723
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >  
> Vince,
> When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied
> charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it
> timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the
> NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted.
>
> -Shawn
>
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>
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>   
When trying to get into NOR do you already have it plugged into your 
charger? That is how I was able to finally get mine to boot, you only 
need the actual OpenMoko charger until it starts up then you can use 
whatever USB charger you prefer. Just plug into wall-socket and phone, 
start NOR twice, viola.

-Shawn

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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

Thanks Shawn. I have tried NOR boot (holding aux button while pressing power 
button, then releasing aux button.) I cannot even get that far. I'm going to 
leave it plugged into the wall charger overnight and see what happens. In the 
meantime i ordered an after market Nokia battery charger. They are cheap but it 
looks like it may take a week or so to get it. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn \"prjktdtnt\" Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:31:17 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

Vince M. Clark wrote: 
> My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it. 
> 
> The following thread offered three possible solutions: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
>  
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work 
> with the Freerunner battery? 
> 
> Vince Clark 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> (303) 493-6723 
>  
> 
> ___ 
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> community@lists.openmoko.org 
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community 
> 
Vince, 
When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied 
charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it 
timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the 
NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted. 

-Shawn 

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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

Not that long on the wall charger. I'll leave it overnight and see what 
happens. 

I have left in on the USB charger for a few hours with no luck. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Sarton O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:27:57 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 05:52:38 Vince M. Clark wrote: 
> I've tried that, as well as the wall charger. The battery is totally dead 
> and my fr will not boot, regardless of how long I leave it plugged in. 

6 - 8 hours on the wall charger is not unusual for my dead battery to start to 
function. How long have you left it? 

Sarton 

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Re: dead battery

[Shawn "prjktdtnt" Thompson]

Vince M. Clark wrote:
> My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it.
>
> The following thread offered three possible solutions:
> http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
>
> Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work 
> with the Freerunner battery?
>
> Vince Clark
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (303) 493-6723
> 
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   
Vince,
When my battery died I plugged my phone into the OpenMoko supplied 
charger, started it using NOR boot, leaving it at the boot menu until it 
timed out (repeat that twice) then I was about to select boot from the 
NOR menu and after a few extra seconds the phone booted.

-Shawn

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Re: dead battery

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 05:52:38 Vince M. Clark wrote:
> I've tried that, as well as the wall charger. The battery is totally dead
> and my fr will not boot, regardless of how long I leave it plugged in.

6 - 8 hours on the wall charger is not unusual for my dead battery to start to 
function. How long have you left it?

Sarton

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Re: Debian size and uSD

[Sarton O'Brien]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 08:26:05 Atilla Filiz wrote:
> After I installed Debian on my stock uSD, i realized that Debian is _BIG_.
> There are tons of libraries installed. I think a lighter Debian is
> possible, any ideas?
> Another thing is I bought a 2G uSD and I want to move my debian system to
> that card. If I manually partition it (8MB fat and rest ext2) and just copy
> contents of 512M, would it work? Or maybe i can copy an image using dd and
> then somehow resize the partition. Anyone tried migrating from one SD to
> another?

You could use copy but tar tends to be a better alternative. Just tar up your 
rootfs and then extract to your new card. Under most *nix variants you need to 
extract using the 'p' parameter to preserve file permissions. Also make sure 
you are not mounted with the option 'nodev'.

With a new u-boot it's also possible to consolidate the kernel and rootfs into 
one partition to ease kernel upgrades.

Sarton

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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Lorn Potter wrote:
> I wrote:
>> but... Where are sources and binaries?
> 
> We usually release the open source packages a couple days after the 
> commercial release.
> 
> They will be at the new site:
> http://qtextended.org
> 
> As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend.

Cool... Btw I've seen that there are also some commercial (premium)
modules that could be integrated with Qtopia, also if they're not open
source. Well, will be there a way to get the torch mobile browser, for
example?
According to its homepage, it shouldn't be free (as speech) but it seems
at least freeware. I don't like too much these things, but it could be a
good tool for who needs a better browser.

Also the eZi keyboard seems quite pretty... :|


[1]
http://trolltech.com/products/device-creation/qt-extended/premium-modules/torch-mobile

-- 
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Thomas Bertani wrote:
> wow! confirmed new features? gtalk, webbrowser, gps?
> In videos I can't see screen orientation, it is aviable?

Look at the modules... There's a shot [1]!

[1] http://trolltech.com/images/products/screenshot-deskphone-ui-sunset

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Richy]

Wow, this ist s much faster/more responsive than FDOM/2008.9 on my phone.
Is this just my phone or is this the difference between framebuffer and X11?


On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thomas Bertani wrote:
>> wow! confirmed new features? gtalk, webbrowser, gps?
>> In videos I can't see screen orientation, it is aviable?
>
> Yes. dynamic rotation is available.
>
>>
>> Thanks a lot for your work!
>
> no worries!
>
>>
>> 2008/9/30 Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>>
>> � wrote:
>>  > C�dric Berger wrote:
>>  >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Trevi�o)"
>>  >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>>  >>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
>>  >>>
>>  >>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
>>  >> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
>>  >> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/
>>  >
>>  > Finally there are official news: Qt Extended 4.4 released [1]!
>>  >
>>  > Look at the many cool videos and see how the Freerunner works [2],
>>  > but... Where are sources and binaries?
>>
>> We usually release the open source packages a couple days after the
>> commercial release.
>>
>> They will be at the new site:
>> http://qtextended.org
>>
>> As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend.
>>
>> --
>> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
>> Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> ___
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>
>
> --
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd
>
>
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Debian size and uSD

[Atilla Filiz]

After I installed Debian on my stock uSD, i realized that Debian is _BIG_.
There are tons of libraries installed. I think a lighter Debian is possible,
any ideas?
Another thing is I bought a 2G uSD and I want to move my debian system to
that card. If I manually partition it (8MB fat and rest ext2) and just copy
contents of 512M, would it work? Or maybe i can copy an image using dd and
then somehow resize the partition. Anyone tried migrating from one SD to
another?

-- 
-
Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır
-
Atilla Filiz
Technische Universiteit Eindhoven
Embedded Systems, Master's Programme

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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone

[Steve Mosher]

verify and place in the wiki or FAQ

Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> The battery usually lays in just like it does in the phone.  The battery
>> will fit into the Nokia, but I'd be surprised if the Nokia agreed to charge
>> it, since it won't recognize it.
> 
> Exactly right. My understanding is this:
> 
> Nokia devices (phones and stand-alone chargers) will not charge 
> non-Nokia batteries, most likely because they can't be sure they have 
> the correct charging parameters.
> 
> Most after-market or no-name brands of Nokia-compatible chargers don't 
> test the make of the battery, most likely because adding the capability 
> to perform this test would add to the cost of the charger.
> 
> Thus:
> 
> * You can use a Nokia or Nokia-compatible BL-4C, BL-5C, or BL-6C in the Neo
> 
> * You can charge the Neo battery in a Nokia-compatible charger that is 
> not Nokia branded
> 
> * You can NOT charge the Neo battery in a Nokia branded phone or charger
> 
> Michael
> 
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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone

[Andy Green]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
|> Thanks for this helpfully complete characterization.
|
| Since you found it illuminating, I'll add it to the wiki
|
|> Do you happen to know if a Nokia battery (such as the BL-5c) will
|> charge in the FreeRunner?
|
| Excellent question. That's the one case I left out. I'm pretty sure it
| does, because I'm pretty sure that we do not check for battery brand.
|
| Any checking of battery brand would happen in software, where we can see
| it (and remove if desired).
|
| True, there is a chip that handles charging, but I'm pretty sure that
| battery brand is not one of the parameters we feed it. Perhaps one of
| the kernel people can confirm this.

Right, we are clueless what that battery is for charging purposes, it'll
give it a go charging it in a fairly adaptive way if the terminals line
up with the battery socket.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkjio+4ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqoAgCaA+hAgTrlhTyCB7HNqX/38GY/
3poAoIfVSn2AidbpusOZLhyXZvm/Lfrd
=v47k
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone

[Michael Shiloh]

> Thanks for this helpfully complete characterization.

Since you found it illuminating, I'll add it to the wiki

> Do you happen to know if a Nokia battery (such as the BL-5c) will
> charge in the FreeRunner?

Excellent question. That's the one case I left out. I'm pretty sure it 
does, because I'm pretty sure that we do not check for battery brand.

Any checking of battery brand would happen in software, where we can see 
it (and remove if desired).

True, there is a chip that handles charging, but I'm pretty sure that 
battery brand is not one of the parameters we feed it. Perhaps one of 
the kernel people can confirm this.

Michael

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Re: [debian/zhone] Send an SMS

[Neil Jerram]

2008/9/27 Jan Luebbe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Fri, 2008-09-26 at 19:42 +0100, Neil Jerram wrote:
>> 2008/9/26 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> > Oh, the testing UI. Yes, you can send messages with that one as well.
>> > Push 'Messages', then chose a contact from your SIM, then compose your
>> > message, then it's going into the outbox and will be sent.
>>
>> Hm.  I couldn't make anything like that work.  I'll try again though
>> if/when I have Debian installed again.
>
> In messages you need to push the button in the middle, then you will get
> a small menu.

I'm afraid I'm still not seeing / understanding this.

Here is what I'm getting as the messages screen:
http://www.ossau.uklinux.net/msgs.jpg (with personal information
blacked out).

Where am I supposed to press?

Thanks,
  Neil

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Re: Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone (was: Re: dead battery)

[Nick Matteo]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly right. My understanding is this:
>
> Nokia devices (phones and stand-alone chargers) will not charge
> non-Nokia batteries, most likely because they can't be sure they have
> the correct charging parameters.
>
> Most after-market or no-name brands of Nokia-compatible chargers don't
> test the make of the battery, most likely because adding the capability
> to perform this test would add to the cost of the charger.
>
> Thus:
>
> * You can use a Nokia or Nokia-compatible BL-4C, BL-5C, or BL-6C in the Neo
>
> * You can charge the Neo battery in a Nokia-compatible charger that is
> not Nokia branded
>
> * You can NOT charge the Neo battery in a Nokia branded phone or charger
>
> Michael

Thanks for this helpfully complete characterization.
Do you happen to know if a Nokia battery (such as the BL-5c) will
charge in the FreeRunner?

Thanks,
Nick

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Charging a Neo battery in a Nokia charger or phone (was: Re: dead battery)

[Michael Shiloh]

> The battery usually lays in just like it does in the phone.  The battery
> will fit into the Nokia, but I'd be surprised if the Nokia agreed to charge
> it, since it won't recognize it.

Exactly right. My understanding is this:

Nokia devices (phones and stand-alone chargers) will not charge 
non-Nokia batteries, most likely because they can't be sure they have 
the correct charging parameters.

Most after-market or no-name brands of Nokia-compatible chargers don't 
test the make of the battery, most likely because adding the capability 
to perform this test would add to the cost of the charger.

Thus:

* You can use a Nokia or Nokia-compatible BL-4C, BL-5C, or BL-6C in the Neo

* You can charge the Neo battery in a Nokia-compatible charger that is 
not Nokia branded

* You can NOT charge the Neo battery in a Nokia branded phone or charger

Michael

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qemu

[Joel Newkirk]

In the course of working on my development VM, I installed qemu using
Mokomakefile.  It seems it installs a Qtopia image.

Can someone lead me by the hand, or point out a howto/faq I missed, that
clearly tells me how to set up other images with it, particularly FSO and
2008.9?  I know that I need to tell qemu it's "gta02fake" instead of
"gta01", but so far I've failed to get any images running with it apart
from the one Mokomakefile pulls in. (they timeout while flashing)

And is there any simple way to support having multiple images installed,
choosing among them at launch time?  All I can see for sure is how to
'flash' it with different images. (I've not used qemu much yet, so I still
haven't fully wrapped my brain around the various symlinks and env settings
affecting it) I'm hoping I can create desktop shortcuts to simple scripts
that fire up qemu with various images, without having to fire up
Mokomakefile and reflash each time - ideal would be fully independent, each
available image having its own SD etc.

Thanks for any info or advice.

j


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Re: dead battery

[Joel Newkirk]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:35:56 -0600 (MDT), "Vince M. Clark"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One more question. Maybe it will be obvious once I get my hands on a
> charger, but how do you actually connect the battery? Will it fit in an
old
> Nokia phone? Or do you somehow connect the battery directly to the
charger?


The battery usually lays in just like it does in the phone.  The battery
will fit into the Nokia, but I'd be surprised if the Nokia agreed to charge
it, since it won't recognize it.

j






 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joel Newkirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:25:36 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: dead battery
> 
> A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the job, at
> least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried. I've done it a few times. I've
> never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't know if the
charger
> can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner battery or not, but left on
> the
> charger for 15-20 minutes it will boot the FreeRunner.
> 
> The most readily-accessible source is likely to be a friend with a Nokia
> phone using one of those batteries - several models over the past six or
> eight years. (mine is a 6600) If you know anyone with a nokia phone (now
> or the past several years) it's worth asking them what battery it uses,
if
> they have a desktop charger, and if you can borrow it. (or keep it - if
> they're not using the phone ask for the charger and battery ;)
> 
> j
> 
> 
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:04:07 -0600 (MDT), "Vince M. Clark"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it.
>>
>> The following thread offered three possible solutions:
>>
>
http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
>>
>> Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work with
>> the Freerunner battery?
>>
>> Vince Clark
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> (303) 493-6723
> 
> 
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Re: email

[Neil Jerram]

2008/9/30 Petr Vanek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Neil, would you mind sending a bit more direct link, i am having 0 luck
> googling this up... thank you

Here is one: 
http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-June/033990.html.

Regards,
  Neil

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Re: [debian] install failure, fso-frameworkd is not going to be installed

[Neil Jerram]

2008/9/28 Neil Jerram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 2008/9/28 Neil Jerram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> No, it doesn't.  Now I get:
>
> The following packages have unmet dependencies: [...]
> E: Broken packages
>
> Hmm.  I'll try again tomorrow.

Solution!
- Put both testing and unstable in your sources.list.
- Install aptitude.  (Possibly not actually necessary, but I'm used to it.)
- Using aptitude:
  - Install libcaca0 and libcucul0, taking care to choose the "14"
versions rather than the "15" ones.
  - Install gstreamer0.10-plugins-good.
  - Install fso-frameworkd.
- Now it is clear that the dependency issue is solved, so back out to
the shell and the installer script:
  ./install.sh fso
  /etc/init.d/qpe stop # if you are running Qtopia, as I am
  umount /dev/mmcblk0p1
  umount /dev/mmcblk0p2
  ./install.sh mount configuration kernel unmount

Regards,
 Neil

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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

I've tried that, as well as the wall charger. The battery is totally dead and 
my fr will not boot, regardless of how long I leave it plugged in. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:52:02 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

Tomas Riveros Schober wrote: 
> well whenever im hit with a "dead battery" i just plug the freerunner to 
> the computer's usb port and let it sit for a few minutes then turn it on 
> to NOR...or NAND whichever one works first 
> 

Well, that is a very simple solution. :-) 
Thank you! 

Paul 

-- 
If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the 
religion and avoid the people, you might better stay home. 
-James Michener 

http://www.nlpagan.net 
Running on Mandriva Linux 2008 and Ubuntu 8.04 


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Re: dead battery

[Paul]

Tomas Riveros Schober wrote:
> well whenever im hit with a "dead battery" i just plug the freerunner to 
> the computer's usb port and let it sit for a few minutes then turn it on 
> to NOR...or NAND whichever one works first
>   

Well, that is a very simple solution.  :-)
Thank you!

Paul

-- 
If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the 
religion and avoid the people, you might better stay home.
-James Michener

http://www.nlpagan.net
Running on Mandriva Linux 2008 and Ubuntu 8.04


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Re: SV: email

[arne anka]

> What about tinymail http://tinymail.org?

is there a gui?
the page states, it is a framework but the demos show some kind of gui --  
but i can't find further informations.

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Re: dead battery

[Petr Vanek]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:32:26 +0200
Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (P) wrote:

>Joel Newkirk wrote:
>> A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the
>> job, at least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried.  I've done it a few
>> times.  I've never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't
>> know if the charger can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner
>> battery or not, but left on the charger for 15-20 minutes it will
>> boot the FreeRunner. 
>
>Very useful to know, thank you. I am anxiously waiting for my FR to
>arrive.
>
>I wonder about something: does a FR come with charged batteries?? One 
>would expect so, otherwise it can never be started/used.
>
>Am I correct in this?

yes. i got fr plus the spares kit (two extra batteries (very handy
btw)) and all came charged up.


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http://biodynamika.cz




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Re: dead battery

[Tomas Riveros Schober]

well whenever im hit with a "dead battery" i just plug the freerunner to 
the computer's usb port and let it sit for a few minutes then turn it on 
to NOR...or NAND whichever one works first

Paul escribió:
> Joel Newkirk wrote:
>   
>> A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the job, at
>> least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried.  I've done it a few times.  I've
>> never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't know if the charger
>> can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner battery or not, but left on the
>> charger for 15-20 minutes it will boot the FreeRunner.
>>   
>> 
>
> Very useful to know, thank you. I am anxiously waiting for my FR to arrive.
>
> I wonder about something: does a FR come with charged batteries?? One 
> would expect so, otherwise it can never be started/used.
>
> Am I correct in this?
>
> Paul
>
>   

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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

One more question. Maybe it will be obvious once I get my hands on a charger, 
but how do you actually connect the battery? Will it fit in an old Nokia phone? 
Or do you somehow connect the battery directly to the charger? 

- Original Message - 
From: "Joel Newkirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:25:36 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the job, at 
least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried. I've done it a few times. I've 
never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't know if the charger 
can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner battery or not, but left on the 
charger for 15-20 minutes it will boot the FreeRunner. 

The most readily-accessible source is likely to be a friend with a Nokia 
phone using one of those batteries - several models over the past six or 
eight years. (mine is a 6600) If you know anyone with a nokia phone (now 
or the past several years) it's worth asking them what battery it uses, if 
they have a desktop charger, and if you can borrow it. (or keep it - if 
they're not using the phone ask for the charger and battery ;) 

j 


On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:04:07 -0600 (MDT), "Vince M. Clark" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it. 
> 
> The following thread offered three possible solutions: 
> 
http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
 
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work with 
> the Freerunner battery? 
> 
> Vince Clark 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> (303) 493-6723 


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Re: dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

Thanks Joel. I'll go digging thru my box of old phones. I know there are a 
couple of Nokias in there. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Joel Newkirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "List for Openmoko community discussion"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:25:36 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: dead battery 

A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the job, at 
least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried. I've done it a few times. I've 
never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't know if the charger 
can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner battery or not, but left on the 
charger for 15-20 minutes it will boot the FreeRunner. 

The most readily-accessible source is likely to be a friend with a Nokia 
phone using one of those batteries - several models over the past six or 
eight years. (mine is a 6600) If you know anyone with a nokia phone (now 
or the past several years) it's worth asking them what battery it uses, if 
they have a desktop charger, and if you can borrow it. (or keep it - if 
they're not using the phone ask for the charger and battery ;) 

j 


On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:04:07 -0600 (MDT), "Vince M. Clark" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it. 
> 
> The following thread offered three possible solutions: 
> 
http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
 
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work with 
> the Freerunner battery? 
> 
> Vince Clark 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> (303) 493-6723 


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Re: dead battery

[Paul]

Joel Newkirk wrote:
> A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the job, at
> least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried.  I've done it a few times.  I've
> never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't know if the charger
> can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner battery or not, but left on the
> charger for 15-20 minutes it will boot the FreeRunner.
>   

Very useful to know, thank you. I am anxiously waiting for my FR to arrive.

I wonder about something: does a FR come with charged batteries?? One 
would expect so, otherwise it can never be started/used.

Am I correct in this?

Paul

-- 
If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the 
religion and avoid the people, you might better stay home.
-James Michener

http://www.nlpagan.net
Running on Mandriva Linux 2008 and Ubuntu 8.04


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Re: dead battery

[Joel Newkirk]

A desktop charger for a Nokia BL-5c or BL-6c battery will do the job, at
least the two non-Nokia ones I've tried.  I've done it a few times.  I've
never let it sit on the charger until full, so I don't know if the charger
can recognize full charge on the FreeRunner battery or not, but left on the
charger for 15-20 minutes it will boot the FreeRunner.

The most readily-accessible source is likely to be a friend with a Nokia
phone using one of those batteries - several models over the past six or
eight years. (mine is a 6600)  If you know anyone with a nokia phone (now
or the past several years) it's worth asking them what battery it uses, if
they have a desktop charger, and if you can borrow it. (or keep it - if
they're not using the phone ask for the charger and battery ;)

j


On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:04:07 -0600 (MDT), "Vince M. Clark"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it.
> 
> The following thread offered three possible solutions:
>
http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work with
> the Freerunner battery?
> 
> Vince Clark
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (303) 493-6723


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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Lorn Potter]

Thomas Bertani wrote:
> wow! confirmed new features? gtalk, webbrowser, gps?
> In videos I can't see screen orientation, it is aviable?

Yes. dynamic rotation is available.

> 
> Thanks a lot for your work!

no worries!

> 
> 2008/9/30 Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> 
> � wrote:
>  > C�dric Berger wrote:
>  >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Trevi�o)"
>  >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>  >>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
>  >>>
>  >>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
>  >> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
>  >> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/
>  >
>  > Finally there are official news: Qt Extended 4.4 released [1]!
>  >
>  > Look at the many cool videos and see how the Freerunner works [2],
>  > but... Where are sources and binaries?
> 
> We usually release the open source packages a couple days after the
> commercial release.
> 
> They will be at the new site:
> http://qtextended.org
> 
> As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend.
> 
> --
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd


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dead battery

[Vince M. Clark]

My battery is completely drained so I cannot boot to charge it. 

The following thread offered three possible solutions: 
http://n2.nabble.com/Can%27t-boot-Freerunner-without-battery---Was:-Re:-unable-to-start-up-freerunner-after-batterie-was-full-down-td526783.html
 

Does anyone know where I can get an external charger that will work with the 
Freerunner battery? 

Vince Clark 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
(303) 493-6723 
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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Thomas Bertani]

wow! confirmed new features? gtalk, webbrowser, gps?
In videos I can't see screen orientation, it is aviable?

Thanks a lot for your work!

2008/9/30 Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> � wrote:
> > C�dric Berger wrote:
> >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Trevi�o)"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
> >>>
> >>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
> >> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
> >> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/
> >
> > Finally there are official news: Qt Extended 4.4 released [1]!
> >
> > Look at the many cool videos and see how the Freerunner works [2],
> > but... Where are sources and binaries?
>
> We usually release the open source packages a couple days after the
> commercial release.
>
> They will be at the new site:
> http://qtextended.org
>
> As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend.
>
> --
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd
>
>
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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Lorn Potter]

� wrote:
> C�dric Berger wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Trevi�o)"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
>>>
>>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
>> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
>> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/
> 
> Finally there are official news: Qt Extended 4.4 released [1]!
> 
> Look at the many cool videos and see how the Freerunner works [2],
> but... Where are sources and binaries?

We usually release the open source packages a couple days after the 
commercial release.

They will be at the new site:
http://qtextended.org

As soon as I can. Hopefully by this weekend.

-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd


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Re: WiMax support

[arne anka]

> (1) does it support wimax?

afaik no

> (2) i heard we can install a deb files is that true?

you can install debian/armel and thus the world of debian is open to you

> (3) can i try android in it and install openmoko back?

not atm and it's quite unclear if ever -- android is for now available for
a) armv5 only
b) must be adapted for the specific device (hardware)
afaik google is still wilful unclear about the level of source it is  
willing to release and thus it's not possible to determine, if someone is  
willing to take the plunge

> (4) are there any issues which are very predominant?

a lot. check the archives -- most of your questions are answered already  
and frequently (in fact #3 is probably the number one of the imaginary faq)

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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended ?

[Lorn Potter]

� wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Trevi�o)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
>>
>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
> 
> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/
> 
> Hey Lorn... you did not post this info on this list ?
> Is that because of this : "Changes in my job from Qtopia Community
> Liasion to Software Engineer" ?... so we won't be in touch with you as
> often as before ?

Nope. I changed titles two years ago already! :)
Only difference is now I have two jobs to do - community _and_ engineering.


-- 
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Software Engineer, Systems Group, Qt Software, Nokia Pty Ltd


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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Vince M. Clark]

Does anyone know if an image will be available? I don't see it in the usual 
downloads location. 

- Original Message - 
From: "\"Marco Trevisan (Treviño)\"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: community@lists.openmoko.org 
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:50:12 AM (GMT-0700) America/Denver 
Subject: Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released! 

Cédric Berger wrote: 
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it? 
>> 
>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1] 
> 
> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before : 
> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/ 

Finally there are official news: Qt Extended 4.4 released [1]! 

Look at the many cool videos and see how the Freerunner works [2], 
but... Where are sources and binaries? 


[1] 
http://trolltech.com/products/device-creation/qt-extended/qt-extended-4.4-release
 
[2] http://dist.trolltech.com/video/qtextended.m4v 

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/ 


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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended | Now Released!

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Cédric Berger wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
>>
>> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
> 
> renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/

Finally there are official news: Qt Extended 4.4 released [1]!

Look at the many cool videos and see how the Freerunner works [2],
but... Where are sources and binaries?


[1]
http://trolltech.com/products/device-creation/qt-extended/qt-extended-4.4-release
[2] http://dist.trolltech.com/video/qtextended.m4v

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: email

[Petr Vanek]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:05:19 +0100
"Neil Jerram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (NJ)
wrote:

>2008/9/30 W.Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>> Cant handle 6-7000 messages going back 5 years (I regard this as
>> medium, 5+ is large :)
>
>You may like to check the archives of the maemo-developers mailing
>list.  There were similar discussions recently there, and IIRC with
>possible solutions.
>
>Regards,
>  Neil


Neil, would you mind sending a bit more direct link, i am having 0 luck
googling this up... thank you


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http://biodynamika.cz




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WiMax support

[mallikarjun arjun]

Dear all i am very new to openmoko world and i am thinking of buying one for
me, but i have some doubts can anyone resolve them

(1) does it support wimax?
(2) i heard we can install a deb files is that true?
(3) can i try android in it and install openmoko back?
(4) are there any issues which are very predominant?

Best Regards
Mallikarjun V
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SV: email

[Jörgen Lidholm]

What about tinymail http://tinymail.org?

/Jörgen

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För W.Kenworthy
Skickat: den 30 september 2008 07:36
Till: List for Openmoko community discussion
Ämne: Re: email

Tried it - at the small screen setting and smallest I could set font the
email got only 2 -3 words per line!  Almost useless.  Rather than have
something adapted from the PC world, we need something designed for a
PDA.  e.g., Palms Versamail gets quite a panning in general, but its
still far better than anything Ive yet tried on the FR :(

Mutt or pine in a console might be a better choice, but have not seen a
package for them yet.

BillK

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 06:45 +0200, Petr Vanek wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:18:30 +0800
> William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (WK)
> wrote:
> 
> >I tried claws on 2007.2 - interface couldnt handle the screen.
> >
> 
> claws could theoretically actually do - i use it daily on my business
> desktop and i tried once on FR, didn't have time since then, but the
> speed was OK (i have the same speed issues  with qtmail)
> 
> In Claws Mail, try in Menu: View->Layout->Small Screen
> 
> then look up the keyboard shortcuts, these are excellent (only few,
> say 5, but very powerful)
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Petr Vaněk
> http://biodynamika.cz
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Om2008.9] xterm && larger fonts

[Matthias Apitz]

Hello,

Any hint about the name of a larger font that could be used with 
'xterm -fn ...'? I'm as well missing 'xlsfonts' in FR :-(

Thx

matthias
-- 
Matthias Apitz
Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH
Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany
t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
e <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/
b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/
A computer is like an air conditioner, it stops working when you open Windows
Una computadora es como aire acondicionado, deja de funcionar si abres Windows

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Re: Re: Dialer UI Design

[Matthew Lane]

Alex has an excellent point.  Both complexity time of algorithms and the 
lack of asynchronous work / threading are enumerations of poor 
programming practices, and not characteristics of a byte code 
interpreter or the like.  Some UI lockups could easily be fixed by 
simply using threads, or even coding without a polling while loop, but 
sometimes programmers don't generally think of using these techniques, 
or are more focused on functionality than speed.  Either way, Alex is 
right in that any interpreter's reduction in speed will be minimal at 
best.  It's *MUCH* more about how you code it, not what you code it in.

Matthew Lane
Purdue University - Department of Computer Science

Alex Osborne wrote:
> On 
> 30/09/2008, at 9:41 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:
>
>> How about experience? I don't know about programming or system 
>> specifics, but as a user,
>
> Please don't take this the wrong way.  There's a common misconception 
> amongst non-programmers and even some less experienced programmers 
> than anything except compiled code is going to feel slow.  This is 
> what Mickey means by "prejudice", you're judging that a poor user 
> experience is Python's fault without really understanding how things 
> work.  I'll try to explain below.
>
>> You can test that on the FR - just try Mofi, switch to say the home 
>> screen, and switch back.  You will be able to see how long it takes 
>> before text appears.
>
> You mean start Mofi, then switch to a different app and back to the 
> still running Mofi? The window renders virtually instantly for me, 
> there's a little flash of it redrawing but you really have to watch 
> for it and it's not noticeably worse than any other app.  I'm 
> switching between xterm and Mofi on Debian on the FreeRunner.  The 
> fact I can't see it could be due to Debian using a different GTK 
> theme, I notice the font (and hence all the widets) are much smaller 
> on Debian than on OM 2007/8, so it might render faster.
>
> The fact that Python is used for the application logic should have 
> zero effect on the redraw speed.  This is because the code that does 
> the drawing (GTK), is actually written in C.  The Python code tells 
> GTK once when the window is created, "hey I want five buttons and a 
> textbox with this text, in this arrangement, you figure out the rest", 
> it's then GTK's responsibility to redraw them and tell python when a 
> button gets clicked or a menu item is selected.  In a normal 
> application that's just using standard widgets and not doing any 
> custom drawing, redraws (like switching between applications) 
> shouldn't execute any Python code at all.
>
> When you click scan the interfaces freezes, but that's because it's 
> waiting for the hardware to do the wifi scan.  This is poor practice, 
> it should really do the scan asynchronously so the interface doesn't 
> freeze and display a spinner, or at least say "Please wait, 
> scanning...".  At least the freeze is not very long.  But again, that 
> has nothing to do with the programming language used, it's just as 
> easy to make the same mistake with C.
>
>> Just from an efficiency point of view, don't you think a compiled 
>> program may run better than an interpreted one on a system with 
>> limited hardware capabilities.
>
> For doing math intensive stuff like drawing, compression, encryption, 
> etc -- sure definitely -- you're trying to do hundreds of millions of 
> operations per second.  For app logic, when this button is pressed, 
> turn on the wifi, configure it with these settings and such there's 
> really no difference between a few thousand CPU cycles of tightly 
> optimized C code and a tens to hundreds of thousands of cycles of 
> Python per button click, they're both imperceptible and are both not a 
> bottleneck.  Can you tell the difference between 1 microsecond and 1 
> millisecond?  I certainly can't.
>
> I guess one might be able to form an argument that Python has a lower 
> barrier of entry for programmers than C so you would be more likely in 
> general to get programs written by less experienced people, but I 
> personally might actually call that a point in favour of Python. ;-)  
> It also by no means implies that Python programs are *only* written by 
> inexperienced people.
>
> I hope that makes things a bit clearer.  Analysing software 
> performance is actually a very complex process and more often than not 
> it's not just raw computation speed that wins the day.  Often your 
> intuitions like that compiled code should be better than interpreted 
> byte-code often do not hold, as good code can often be exponentially 
> better than bad code, while compiling might get you at the very most 
> only a 5 to 10 times speed boost.  Also, how caching and memory is 
> used plays a very large role in the performance of programs running on 
> modern hardware.
>
> But for typical GUI programs processor speed is usually largely 
> irrelevant as long as the underlying toolkit is not complete

Re: Dialer UI Design

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Thanks Alex for this comprehensive post, that's exactly what I had in
mind and should have actually written, but was too much in a hurry.

Cheers,

Mickey.




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Re: Problems building a sample project

[rhn]

 Wiadomość Oryginalna 
Od: "lorena san vicente" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Do: "List for Openmoko community discussion" 

Data: 30 września 2008 16:26
Temat: Problems building a sample project
Hi list,
I  am new at this I am proving step by step all that is
commenting in openmoko wiki, but when I create a build
configuration for this application with
om-conf openmoko-sample2
it gives me an error:
bash: om-conf: orden no encontrada
why can it be??what can I do???
thanks very much
Try running /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env before. You need to use this 
command after every boot when you wish to use the toolchain.
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Re: Problems building a sample project

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Am Dienstag, den 30.09.2008, 16:26 +0200 schrieb lorena san vicente:
> Hi list,
> I  am new at this I am proving step by step all that is commenting in
> openmoko wiki, but when I create a build configuration for this
> application with 
> om-conf openmoko-sample2
> 
> it gives me an error: 
> bash: om-conf: orden no encontrada
> 
> why can it be??what can I do???
> thanks very much

First thing, please use LC_ALL=C before posting an error message to the
list. Error message translation can be misleading.

Second, I _guess_ this means "file or directory not found", which again
means you don't have om-conf in your PATH. Please check in which
directory om-conf lives and add this directory to your $PATH.

Hope this helps,

:M:

> 


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Re: Where are actions configured for buttons in FSO?

[Rod Whitby]

digger vermont wrote:
> Are there nightly/daily's of frameworkd somewhere? There's a lot of good
> stuff being done I'd like try out.  Or is the way to best way to take
> advantage of the new methods still using NFS or similar?  

If fso-image and task-openmoko-feed actually built properly in OE, then
you would find daily's for all FSO stuff in

http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-unstable/feeds/

Unfortunately, http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/builds/36365/ shows
that evas-native is breaking the unstable build at the moment with the
error shown in http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/public/logs/1248197.txt

-- Rod

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Problems building a sample project

[lorena san vicente]

Hi list,
I  am new at this I am proving step by step all that is commenting in
openmoko wiki, but when I create a build configuration for this application
with
om-conf openmoko-sample2

it gives me an error:
bash: om-conf: orden no encontrada

why can it be??what can I do???
thanks very much
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Re: Dialer UI Design

[Alex Osborne]

On 30/09/2008, at 11:34 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:


 If a GUI is not responding it's a problem with how the
program is structured, it should be doing something asynchronously
instead of blocking the event loop.

I just hope everybody follows best practices.  At the end of the  
day, all I need is something that is responsive.


Yep.  I guess one thing that makes it difficult is that the author of  
a program usually knows what the program is doing in detail.  They'll  
be thinking something like "oh, the program is just enumerating the  
doodad configuration, that's why the interface has frozen".  So they  
won't really notice the problem because they have a good idea what's  
happening internally.  While a user is thinking, hey I just clicked  
the settings button and the program has locked up for no good reason,  
what the heck?!?


You can try submitting a bug report about it, but unfortunately,  
particularly for projects with small communities, the developer is  
likely to think, "hmm, good point, but it'd be more fun to work on  
adding a new whiz-bang instead, besides it doesn't really bother me,  
can't they just be patient and wait for it to finish loading?"  At  
least in a project with a larger community these sort of small tweaks  
to how the interface looks and behaves can serve as a fairly safe  
entry point for developers new to the project to learn the code  
base.   To a developer these sorts of things can really seem like  
trivial details not worth bothering over, but often they're really  
quick to fix and can dramatically improve the user experience-- 
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Re: [2008.09][FSO] Programming interface to wifi Icon

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Tuesday, September 30, 2008 a las 02:38:51PM +0100, Arigead escribió:

> Hello all,
> Want to play with the wifi icon on the FR either in [2008.09] or 
> [FSO] Perhaps [FSO] makes more sense in the long run.
> 
> Anyhow can I from a C Program set the icon? And can I have a call back 
> so that Icon being pressed issues a DBUS message?

If you create a file like this:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/applications# cat Wifi-up.desktop 
[Desktop Entry]
Encoding=UTF-8
Name=Wifi-up
Comment=Bring Wifi up with ifup eth0
Exec=xterm -e "ifdown eth0 ; iwconfig eth0 txpower auto channel 1 ; killall 
wpa_supplicant ; killall udhcp ; ifup eth0 ; sleep 20"
Icon=wifi
Terminal=false
Type=Application
Categories=Application;Utilities;
SingleInstance=true
StartupNotify=true

the icon will appear and of course you have an action Exec=...

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz
Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH
Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany
t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
e <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/
b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/
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Una computadora es como aire acondicionado, deja de funcionar si abres Windows

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Re: [2008.9] Wifi very unreliable

[Alex Osborne]

On 30/09/2008, at 10:37 PM, Matthias Apitz wrote:

> Wireless event: cmd=0x8b1a len=18
> Authentication with 00:04:e2:a1:76:0b timed out.
> Added BSSID 00:04:e2:a1:76:0b into blacklist

Yeah.  That's exactly the same sort of thing I was seeing, which  
clearing the essid seems to help with most of the time.  I  
occasionally find the wifi just stops working completely for no  
apparent reason, ping and all other traffic fails but it otherwise  
seems normal from the iwconfig and ifconfig output.  Other times I  
get pages and pages of this rapidly flooded in dmesg:

AR6000 disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from  
XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000  
disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from  
XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000  
disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from  
XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000  
disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from  
XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000 disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX AR6000  
disconnected from XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX

without any line breaks and where the XX is the access point  
address.  The only thing that seems to fix it when it does that is to  
reboot.

Cheers,

Alex

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[2008.09][FSO] Programming interface to wifi Icon

[Arigead]

Hello all,
Want to play with the wifi icon on the FR either in [2008.09] or 
[FSO] Perhaps [FSO] makes more sense in the long run.

Anyhow can I from a C Program set the icon? And can I have a call back 
so that Icon being pressed issues a DBUS message?

Thanks for any help

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Re: Dialer UI Design

[Nishit Dave]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Alex Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You mean start Mofi, then switch to a different app and back to the
> still running Mofi? The window renders virtually instantly for me,
> there's a little flash of it redrawing but you really have to watch
> for it and it's not noticeably worse than any other app.  I'm
> switching between xterm and Mofi on Debian on the FreeRunner.  The
> fact I can't see it could be due to Debian using a different GTK
> theme, I notice the font (and hence all the widets) are much smaller
> on Debian than on OM 2007/8, so it might render faster.
>

It might be because I use a Qtopia-based installation (2008.8-update) then,
and GTK might run better on Debian 'natively', I guess.


>
> The fact that Python is used for the application logic should have
> zero effect on the redraw speed.  This is because the code that does
> the drawing (GTK), is actually written in C.  The Python code tells
> GTK once when the window is created, "hey I want five buttons and a
> textbox with this text, in this arrangement, you figure out the
> rest", it's then GTK's responsibility to redraw them and tell python
> when a button gets clicked or a menu item is selected.  In a normal
> application that's just using standard widgets and not doing any
> custom drawing, redraws (like switching between applications)
> shouldn't execute any Python code at all.
>

This is very informative, thanks.  I still have the feeling that GUI
performance is poor when the executable is written in python.  Maybe its
just me.


> But for typical GUI programs processor speed is usually largely
> irrelevant as long as the underlying toolkit is not completely
> broken.  If a GUI is not responding it's a problem with how the
> program is structured, it should be doing something asynchronously
> instead of blocking the event loop.
>
> I just hope everybody follows best practices.  At the end of the day, all I
need is something that is responsive.
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Re: Dialer UI Design

[Alex Osborne]

On 30/09/2008, at 9:41 PM, Nishit Dave wrote:

> How about experience? I don't know about programming or system  
> specifics, but as a user,

Please don't take this the wrong way.  There's a common misconception  
amongst non-programmers and even some less experienced programmers  
than anything except compiled code is going to feel slow.  This is  
what Mickey means by "prejudice", you're judging that a poor user  
experience is Python's fault without really understanding how things  
work.  I'll try to explain below.

> You can test that on the FR - just try Mofi, switch to say the home  
> screen, and switch back.  You will be able to see how long it takes  
> before text appears.

You mean start Mofi, then switch to a different app and back to the  
still running Mofi? The window renders virtually instantly for me,  
there's a little flash of it redrawing but you really have to watch  
for it and it's not noticeably worse than any other app.  I'm  
switching between xterm and Mofi on Debian on the FreeRunner.  The  
fact I can't see it could be due to Debian using a different GTK  
theme, I notice the font (and hence all the widets) are much smaller  
on Debian than on OM 2007/8, so it might render faster.

The fact that Python is used for the application logic should have  
zero effect on the redraw speed.  This is because the code that does  
the drawing (GTK), is actually written in C.  The Python code tells  
GTK once when the window is created, "hey I want five buttons and a  
textbox with this text, in this arrangement, you figure out the  
rest", it's then GTK's responsibility to redraw them and tell python  
when a button gets clicked or a menu item is selected.  In a normal  
application that's just using standard widgets and not doing any  
custom drawing, redraws (like switching between applications)  
shouldn't execute any Python code at all.

When you click scan the interfaces freezes, but that's because it's  
waiting for the hardware to do the wifi scan.  This is poor practice,  
it should really do the scan asynchronously so the interface doesn't  
freeze and display a spinner, or at least say "Please wait,  
scanning...".  At least the freeze is not very long.  But again, that  
has nothing to do with the programming language used, it's just as  
easy to make the same mistake with C.

> Just from an efficiency point of view, don't you think a compiled  
> program may run better than an interpreted one on a system with  
> limited hardware capabilities.

For doing math intensive stuff like drawing, compression, encryption,  
etc -- sure definitely -- you're trying to do hundreds of millions of  
operations per second.  For app logic, when this button is pressed,  
turn on the wifi, configure it with these settings and such there's  
really no difference between a few thousand CPU cycles of tightly  
optimized C code and a tens to hundreds of thousands of cycles of  
Python per button click, they're both imperceptible and are both not  
a bottleneck.  Can you tell the difference between 1 microsecond and  
1 millisecond?  I certainly can't.

I guess one might be able to form an argument that Python has a lower  
barrier of entry for programmers than C so you would be more likely  
in general to get programs written by less experienced people, but I  
personally might actually call that a point in favour of Python. ;-)   
It also by no means implies that Python programs are *only* written  
by inexperienced people.

I hope that makes things a bit clearer.  Analysing software  
performance is actually a very complex process and more often than  
not it's not just raw computation speed that wins the day.  Often  
your intuitions like that compiled code should be better than  
interpreted byte-code often do not hold, as good code can often be  
exponentially better than bad code, while compiling might get you at  
the very most only a 5 to 10 times speed boost.  Also, how caching  
and memory is used plays a very large role in the performance of  
programs running on modern hardware.

But for typical GUI programs processor speed is usually largely  
irrelevant as long as the underlying toolkit is not completely  
broken.  If a GUI is not responding it's a problem with how the  
program is structured, it should be doing something asynchronously  
instead of blocking the event loop.

Cheers,

Alex

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debian: where to download navit?

[arne anka]

i remember to have read a while ago, where to download navit for  
debian/armel -- but i can't find the message.
could someone please post a link -- even for an ipk if nothing else exists?

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Re: Where are actions configured for buttons in FSO?

[digger vermont]

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:25 +0800, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Am Montag, den 29.09.2008, 20:18 -0400 schrieb digger vermont:
> > On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 22:10 +0200, Johny Tenfinger wrote:
> > > Listen to dbus signals. dbus is a power of fso framerork :)
> > > 
> > > Happy hacking ;)
> > > 
> > 
> > Yeah, I'm all for frameworkd!  Problem is as far as I can see it's not
> > currently being used to configure the PWR button, at least as far as I
> > can see.  So what is currently telling the PWR button to suspend if it
> > is pressed for 3(?) seconds?
> 
> Zhone is doing that currently.
> 

Great I'll take a look.

> > Gonna have to defeat that before I can use
> > frameworkd and dbus to control it.
> 
> Right. I have started removing functionality out of Zhone to the rules
> file, so that it's much more customizable and will work every time -- no
> matter if a UI or which UI is running.
> 
> I will soon move the suspend functionality into the rules files as well
> -- unfortunately resume is broken in the current kernels, so this has to
> wait a bit.

Are there nightly/daily's of frameworkd somewhere? There's a lot of good
stuff being done I'd like try out.  Or is the way to best way to take
advantage of the new methods still using NFS or similar?  

thanks,
digger


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Re: Minty Boost && FreeRunner

[-stacy]

Matthias Apitz wrote:
> It seems that here in Germany they don't sell this type of Chewing Gum
> boxes, 

I had a hard time finding it locally as well. I finally mail ordered a 
ten pack. On the plus side, the gum doesn't stick to my dental work, so 
I can actually chew the stuff.

>the boxes here have other length and width, bigger in width but
> maybe shorter in length; could someone mail me please the values of
> length and width in millimeter of the original box to see if the batteries
> will fit;

in mm, 82.5 x 34.0 x 18.5 (L x W X H)

On the subject of boxes can anyone suggest an interesting container that 
would hold a pair of D cells with a little room (20mm x 34mm) to spare 
for the boost pcb?

-stacy

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Re: [2008.9] Wifi very unreliable

[William Kenworthy]

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:37 +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El día Tuesday, September 30, 2008 a las 08:11:48PM +1000, Alex Osborne 
> escribió:
> 
> > Matthias Apitz wrote:
> > > I'm trying to bring up the eth0 with
> > >
> > ># ifup eth0
> > >
> > 
> ...
> 
>   matthias

Hi Matthias, I am using these scripts with the unmodified Om 2008.9
system successfully to connect to a linksys wrt150 running wpa.  The
only caveat is that the FR has a good signal when connecting.  Turn on
wifi using the settings dialog first - dont select anything else.  Same
with mofi etc - if you have used them, reboot first.  Then you should be
able to connect/reconnect at will.  It seems that some of the background
apps are reluctant to let go of the connection.

myth1 root # cat wap
#!/bin/sh

# Turn on wifi at the settings dialog first!

ifdown eth0
iwconfig eth0 txpower auto channel 1
killall wpa_supplicant
killall udhcp
wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B ;
ifup eth0

___

myth1 root # cat nowap
#!/bin/sh

ifdown eth0
killall wpa_supplicant
iwconfig eth0 txpower off

-- 
William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Home in Perth!

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Re: [2008.9] Wifi very unreliable

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Tuesday, September 30, 2008 a las 08:11:48PM +1000, Alex Osborne 
escribió:

> Matthias Apitz wrote:
> > I'm trying to bring up the eth0 with
> >
> ># ifup eth0
> >
> >this works very unreliable; in (let's say) 8 of 10 cases it can't
> >associate to the AP, even not after fresh re-boots and independently if
> >the AP at my home works with WEP or in my office with WPA;
> >  
> I found that with wpa_supplicant there was a problem with disconnecting 
> from an AP.  The essid would apparantly not get cleared properly on the 
> card (although iwconfig would show it as cleared) and until you manually 
> cleared it, wpa_supplicant would just sit in a loop trying to connect 
> and getting authentication timeouts.  You can see these message if you 
> run wpa_cli.  I worked around it by adding a pre-up that clears the essid:
> 
> allow-hotplug eth0
> iface eth0 inet manual
>  wpa-driver wext
>  wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>  pre-up iwconfig eth0 essid off
> 
> iface default inet dhcp
> iface home inet dhcp
> 
> This seems to work reliably for me except that I still have to ifdown 
> and ifup when I move to a different AP.  So if manually connecting with 
> iwconfig works for you, you could try same workaround. Here's what my 
> wpa_supplicant.conf looks like:

I have as well the feeling that, when I was associated once and leaving
the AP physically, I can't re-associate anymore, even not after a boot;

I tried your hint about 'iwconfig eth0 essid off' but it does not
improve the situation;

I've now filed a bug report as
https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2045
with also a wpa_supplicant debug session; it tries to associate:

Trying to associate with 00:04:e2:a1:76:0b (SSID='santaclara' freq=2442 MHz)
...
State: SCANNING -> ASSOCIATING
wpa_driver_wext_set_operstate: operstate 0->0 (DORMANT)

...
Wireless event: cmd=0x8b1a len=18
Authentication with 00:04:e2:a1:76:0b timed out.
Added BSSID 00:04:e2:a1:76:0b into blacklist
No keys have been configured - skip key clearing
State: ASSOCIATING -> DISCONNECTED
wpa_driver_wext_set_operstate: operstate 0->0 (DORMANT)
...

matthias
-- 
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Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH
Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany
t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
e <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/
b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/
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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended ?

[Cédric Berger]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 13:50, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?
>
> However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]

renamed indeed... I had not seen this before :
http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/09/28/qt-extended/

Hey Lorn... you did not post this info on this list ?
Is that because of this : "Changes in my job from Qtopia Community
Liasion to Software Engineer" ?... so we won't be in touch with you as
often as before ?

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Re: GPS Device

[Andy Green]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Matthias Camenzind
| <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
|
|
| Output is repeating  endless.ttySCA0 and ttySCA2 gives no output.
|
| opkg install gpsd
| echo GPS_DEV=/dev/ttySAC1> /etc/default/gpsd
| /etc/init.d/gpsd restart
|
|
| ttySAC1 is correct.  I wonder why the default setting is ttySAC0.
|
|
|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# sleep 1s && echo 1>

You have to take a bit of care at the end there, it has to be "1 >" not
"1>".  Not sure it's your overall problem, but if you think you're
cycling the power on it by echoing 0 then 1 down there you might not be.

- -Andy
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: GPS Device

[Nishit Dave]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Matthias Camenzind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> Output is repeating  endless.ttySCA0 and ttySCA2 gives no output.
>
> opkg install gpsd
> echo GPS_DEV=/dev/ttySAC1> /etc/default/gpsd
> /etc/init.d/gpsd restart
>

ttySAC1 is correct.  I wonder why the default setting is ttySAC0.


>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# sleep 1s && echo 1>
> /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gps.0/pwron && stty -F
> /dev/ttySAC1 -echo && cat -u /dev/ttySAC1 | grep -v ^$
> $GPGSA,A,1,99.99,99.99,99.99*30
> $GPGSV,1,1,00*79
> $GPGLL,,V,N*64
> $GPZDA,00,00*48
>
> Has someone an idea what i could do? SD Card Slot is fixed
>

Reboot.
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Re: Qtopia 4.4 - Qt Extended ?

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Lorn Potter wrote:
> 4.4 is right around the corner.
> It has dynamic rotation, webkit/example browser, a location API/example 
> gps apps, Gtalk jabber thingy. and I cannot remember what else.
> 
> And something else that you'll have to read about when the announcement 
> comes out.
> 
> :)

Is has been renamed to Qt Extended right now, isn't it?

However there are some very interesting videos on the net [1]
(especially the browser, IMHO), I just hope that the Freerunner will
have the same performances...

And what about the theme? Since in some videos there is a new
appearance, will we have something of different or just the standard
qtopia one?

Thanks for pushing something out, BTW... :P


[1] http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=QtStudios


-- 
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Dialer UI Design

[Nishit Dave]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Alastair Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Nishit Dave wrote:
> >
> > *yawn* Predujice...
> >
> >
> > *yawn* years of experience using yumex, Fedora and what not.  Carefully
> > considered Predijuice.
>
> Can you point to something specific that makes python unsuitable for a
> responsive GUI? I've seen unresponsive GUIs written with many languages,
> but it is generally a problem with the code not the language.
>
>
How about experience? I don't know about programming or system specifics,
but as a user, I have always found most programs written in python to be
prone to latency in screen redraws and freeze-ups.  You can test that on the
FR - just try Mofi, switch to say the home screen, and switch back.  You
will be able to see how long it takes before text appears.  I have seen this
happen everywhere.

Just from an efficiency point of view, don't you think a compiled program
may run better than an interpreted one on a system with limited hardware
capabilities.

Anyway, why do I bother...
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