Re: 2007.2 Multitap-pad toggle?
Dylan Reilly wrote: > Bah. I suppose I should have tested them first. The screen shot app is > broken for me and refuses to save valid PNG's. So, no screen shot love > for now I am afraid. > some error about 'cannot convert chunk to ISO-whatever? if so, do 'ln -s /lib/libc.so.6 /lib/libc.so'... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of 3G a killer for Australia
In reality, the GSM network in Australia has ample coverage. Blanket statements like 'the FreeRunner will not function well as a phone in Australia' are patently incorrect. please provide some evidence as to where 'service is declining badly', I've *never* heard a story of GSM coverage shrinking, and I know multiple people at Telstra. >I've had to get a 3G handset and carrier just to get consistent phone reception in my unit and >I know several people who've had to do the same thing. Where are you? What GSM carrier are/were you using? what model phone? does your building happen to be lead-lined? I find this difficult to believe, unless you're somewhere rather remote. -Dale Ben wrote: > Unfortunately the FreeRunner will not function well as a phone in > Australia due to the lack of 3G. > > The Australian Telcos don't appear to be spending anymore money on pre > 3G networks and they may even be pulling some of it out as service is > declining badly. I've had to get a 3G handset and carrier just to get > consistent phone reception in my unit and I know several people who've > had to do the same thing. > > The future is highly mobile though, so I look forward to a 3G phone > running OpenMoko. > > Ben > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS application
For car mount, the mount I have for my (now deprecated!) iPAQ works nicely, although it obscures the power button, makes exiting programs a bit or a pain: http://www.ow.com.au/shop/PDA-Car-Mounts/Arkon-CM910-Universal-PDA-Mount-Kit I'd *love* to see a motorbike mount! although it would need to be *very* secure, and waterproof -Dale steve wrote: > Bike mount? > > Or car mount? > > Guillermo how hard is that? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Coggins > Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:57 AM > To: List for Openmoko community discussion > Subject: Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like > communityapplications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld) > > If you don't need a GPS that's great but I find them really useful. > Yes, maps and a compasses are really useful but they are quite bulky and you > need the right one. Thanks to the FreeRunner I've now got localised, street > level maps for a large part of the work (OSM[0]) in my pocket. In addition > to this I don't even have to work out where I am and what direction I am > moving in. > > I'm also looking for a mount for my bicycle handlebars so I'll have a full > bike computer with me when I'm riding - speed, direction, time and distance > will all be displayed for me along with the map. If I think of anything else > I want to hand I could either implement it myself or ask the tangoGPS guys. > > And they are *so* much fun in planes :) > > Tim > > > [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/ > > > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Ken Restivo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:38:07PM +0300, Mikko Rauhala wrote: >> >>> ti, 2008-07-29 kello 20:53 +0200, Marcus Bauer kirjoitti: >>> I'm a huge Openstreetmap fan but until OSM is ready for routing this will take at least five more years, probably ten. >>> That's probably true _if you drive a car_ (though even for that it >>> can be a handy help, especially in areas that don't happen to have >>> lots of turn restrictions, though you of course don't want to just >>> blindly drive listening to it anyway). >>> >>> Us others want navigation too and are considerably less hampered by >>> OSM's current lackings. 'course, there are other projects than >>> TangoGPS, but it seems otherwise nice so one would like it to include >>> this as well. As long as I'm not coding it, it's not my call, of >>> course :] >>> >>> PS: Kudos for your work and all, but with all your hyperbole, jumping >>> to conclusions, accusations of lying and stuff, you might want to >>> take a step back for a breather if you want, you know, people to >>> bother to listen to you instead of just wanting to rant wildly. >>> >>> >> I have a really dumb question: >> >> What is the point of having GPS anyway? >> >> I don't travel much, so perhaps that's why I just don't get it. >> >> If I'm navigating around a strange city, though, a hardcopy map is plenty >> > good. > >> I spend most of my time walking or taking public transport, within a very >> > short radius, in an area I already know very well. I'm just not getting > what's cool or exciting about GPS. > >> -ken >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bike/motorcycle mount - was: Re: GPS application
Thanks! Jens Meyer wrote: > Hello! > > For GPS and MTB the following German company seems to be an insider-tipp: > > http://www.bikertech.de/html/english.html > http://www.bikertech.de/ (German only) > http://www.bikertech.de/webshop/ (Shop) > > For my MTB I am actually using an "RK-Klick-1" with the universal mount > "PDA-VAR" for my N73, but maybe this would fit for the Freerunner also. > > Waterproof bags with mount are available also: "PDA-Tasche" > > Not very cheap but very useful... > > Kind regards! > > Jens > > Dale Maggee schrieb: > >> For car mount, the mount I have for my (now deprecated!) iPAQ works >> nicely, although it obscures the power button, makes exiting programs a >> bit or a pain: >> >> http://www.ow.com.au/shop/PDA-Car-Mounts/Arkon-CM910-Universal-PDA-Mount-Kit >> >> I'd *love* to see a motorbike mount! although it would need to be *very* >> secure, and waterproof >> >> -Dale >> >> steve wrote: >> >>> Bike mount? >>> >>> Or car mount? >>> >>> Guillermo how hard is that? >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Coggins >>> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:57 AM >>> To: List for Openmoko community discussion >>> Subject: Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like >>> communityapplications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld) >>> >>> If you don't need a GPS that's great but I find them really useful. >>> Yes, maps and a compasses are really useful but they are quite bulky and you >>> need the right one. Thanks to the FreeRunner I've now got localised, street >>> level maps for a large part of the work (OSM[0]) in my pocket. In addition >>> to this I don't even have to work out where I am and what direction I am >>> moving in. >>> >>> I'm also looking for a mount for my bicycle handlebars so I'll have a full >>> bike computer with me when I'm riding - speed, direction, time and distance >>> will all be displayed for me along with the map. If I think of anything else >>> I want to hand I could either implement it myself or ask the tangoGPS guys. >>> >>> And they are *so* much fun in planes :) >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/ >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Ken Restivo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:38:07PM +0300, Mikko Rauhala wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> ti, 2008-07-29 kello 20:53 +0200, Marcus Bauer kirjoitti: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm a huge Openstreetmap fan but until OSM is ready for routing >>>>>> this will take at least five more years, probably ten. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> That's probably true _if you drive a car_ (though even for that it >>>>> can be a handy help, especially in areas that don't happen to have >>>>> lots of turn restrictions, though you of course don't want to just >>>>> blindly drive listening to it anyway). >>>>> >>>>> Us others want navigation too and are considerably less hampered by >>>>> OSM's current lackings. 'course, there are other projects than >>>>> TangoGPS, but it seems otherwise nice so one would like it to include >>>>> this as well. As long as I'm not coding it, it's not my call, of >>>>> course :] >>>>> >>>>> PS: Kudos for your work and all, but with all your hyperbole, jumping >>>>> to conclusions, accusations of lying and stuff, you might want to >>>>> take a step back for a breather if you want, you know, people to >>>>> bother to listen to you instead of just wanting to rant wildly. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I have a really dumb question: >>>> >>>> What is the point of having GPS anyway? >>>> >>>> I don't travel much, so perhaps that's why I just don't get it. >>>> >>>> If I'm navigating around a strange city, though, a hardcopy map is plenty >>>> >>>> &g
Re: Openmoko presentation
Shakthi Kannan wrote: > Hi, > > I made a small introductory presentation on Openmoko. You can get it from > here: > > http://shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/openmoko-free-your-phone.odp > http://shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/openmoko-free-your-phone.pdf > > Appreciate any suggestions/comments/changes/feedback. > > Thanks! > > SK > > makes me want to eat cake... ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Testing for audio playback
Sorry but I can't help, but I just wanted to say good luck with this, please keep us posted - I also find this annoying and I'd love to see it fixed! :) Dylan Reilly wrote: > I do not want to test if the sound is working but if audio is > currently being processed by the card. > > For example, I find in bothersome that the freerunner will suspend > while I am listening to music or using it as a phone. My hope is that > there is/are some test(s) I can issue programatically that will tell > me if one of those two events are occurring. > > As I mentioned, I can easily determine if a program has bound itself > to the sound card (e.g., lsof) but not if audio is actually streaming. > In particular, the phone kit is always bound to the card so lsof is > not a useful test in that case. > > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Yogiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Is there a way to test if sound is actually being pumped through the >>> sound card? I can lsof various devices in /dev/snd or check >>> /proc/asound/card0/pcmXX/sub0/status but those only tell me if a >>> client is *connected*. Furthermore, I find it odd that the phone-kit >>> does not seem to go through the alsa pcm but is only connected to >>> /dev/snd/controlC0. Is there some way to know if the phone kit >>> actually active? >>> >> I'm probably just misunderstanding you, but why not test the sound card >> with a random audio file. Or run 'speaker-test'. >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > > > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Testing for audio playback
>> somewhere. For example, mediaplayer mutes/pauses when a phone call >> comes in... >> >> -Rusty >> >> Really? In 2007.2? It doesn't do that for me! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Navit?
Has anybody managed to get Navit working on their freerunner? I managed to set up the toolchain but when i run om-conf, it tells me that it can't find gps.h and disables gpsd support. I proceeded to compile and built an ipkg anyway, and set up a vehicle in the navit.xml file telling it to read from /dev/ttySAC1, but this gives repeated errors to the effect that it's the wrong baid rate or not NMEA format. I also extracted a map using the tool at http://maps.navit-project.org/download/ and set navit to use this map, but it doesn't look very good at all, I get a garbled display which looks nothing like australia. has anybody else had any luck with this, or got any idea what I'm doing wrong? Regards, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Jeffrey Ratcliffe wrote: > 2008/8/5 Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Has anybody managed to get Navit working on their freerunner? >> > > I've been working on this, but unfortunately, Real Life has been > preventing me sorting out the problem I had - that the build was > failing in the tool chain because it builds a sample map as part of > the build process, using the osm2navit tool it compiles - which of > course won't run on the host. > > I commented out those parts of the makefile that build the sample, > built the ipkg, but haven't had time to test... > > Jeff > I managed to get it to skip building the sample map by passing '--disable-samplemap' to om-conf. #om-conf navit-0.0.4 --disable-samplemap I also tried passing --enable-gpsd, but this didn't seem to have any effect, gpsd is still disabled. I'll try building my own map and see how that goes. did your om-conf detect gps.h and enable gpsd? If so and you can post your ipkg online, or even email it to me directly, I'll be happy to try it out! :) Cheers, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Dale Maggee wrote: > Jeffrey Ratcliffe wrote: > >> 2008/8/5 Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> >>> Has anybody managed to get Navit working on their freerunner? >>> >>> >> I've been working on this, but unfortunately, Real Life has been >> preventing me sorting out the problem I had - that the build was >> failing in the tool chain because it builds a sample map as part of >> the build process, using the osm2navit tool it compiles - which of >> course won't run on the host. >> >> I commented out those parts of the makefile that build the sample, >> built the ipkg, but haven't had time to test... >> >> Jeff >> >> > I managed to get it to skip building the sample map by passing > '--disable-samplemap' to om-conf. > #om-conf navit-0.0.4 --disable-samplemap > > I also tried passing --enable-gpsd, but this didn't seem to have any > effect, gpsd is still disabled. > > I'll try building my own map and see how that goes. > > did your om-conf detect gps.h and enable gpsd? > > If so and you can post your ipkg online, or even email it to me > directly, I'll be happy to try it out! :) > > Cheers, > -Dale > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > OK, so I've tried building the maps myself, but I just keep getting 'bad request' when I use wget. I expect that this is because I'm in the southern hemisphere, as the example wget command on the website works fine. $ wget -O map.osm http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/map?bbox=136.1,-37,136,-37.1 --16:01:34-- http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/map?bbox=136.1,-37,136,-37.1 Resolving www.openstreetmap.org... 128.40.58.202 Connecting to www.openstreetmap.org|128.40.58.202|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 400 Bad Request 16:01:36 ERROR 400: Bad Request. I've decided to just go the excessive route and download planet.bin (I could kiss my 8gb SD card!), we'll see how that goes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko presentation
Shakthi Kannan wrote: > Hi Michael and others! > > --- On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Michael Shiloh > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | This is quite wonderful. Thanks! Can we put a copy on our downloads > | page? (I know it's CC but still want to check with you) > \-- > > Sure! Feel free to re-use/add/delete/modify it. > > --- > | Also can you explain the page about "libre"? I assume you mean the white > | part is closed and the grey part is open? > \-- > > Yes. I could have used it the other way round, or used different > background colors. Unfortunately, colors have different meanings in > different parts of the world, and context. > > This slide was taken from Ole Tange's presentation and modified. His > presentation is available at: > http://www.ukuug.org/events/openmoko/ > > Regards, > > SK > > Be sure to post a warning about 'will make you need chocolate' if you put it online! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Wolfgang Silbermayr wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > >> I've decided to just go the excessive route and download planet.bin (I >> could kiss my 8gb SD card!), we'll see how that goes. >> > > If you are inside europe (I don't know if you are), you could also head > over to http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/ and download only the parts > you need (either europe with nearly 700mb which get reduced to about > 200mb by osm2navit, or any european country). > > That's the way I use navit on my laptop. > > Greetings, Wolfgang. > Thanks for the advice, but I'm in Australia, not europe - I'm trying to get maps for the whole of Australia. -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Wrightson, Barney (Contractor) wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > >> OK, so I've tried building the maps myself, but I just keep getting >> > 'bad request' when I use wget. I expect that this is because I'm in the > southern hemisphere, as the > >> example wget command on the website works fine. >> >> $ wget -O map.osm >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/map?bbox=136.1,-37,136,-37.1 >> > > I was messing with this a few weeks ago before I got my FR and I think > something like this worked to get SA data: > > http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.5/*%5bbbox=132.6,-36.4,13 > 6.8,-33.5%5d > > I think that site worked better for large chunks. I also think that the > order of the two BB corners may have mattered. > I was doing this through a web browser not wget. > > Barney > > PS cc-ed you because I'm not sure if the list will acceped un subscribed > emails... > Barney, Thanks. your URL worked just fine, but I haven't been able to get this to give me the whole of australia. I've tried various permutations. The coords I'm trying to get are 111.9,-9.8 to 154.4,-44.8 I've got the planet.bin file, which seems to render ok. Looking at this, I now think the problem with the Australia.bin file I downloaded was simply that it looks terrible when zoomed out beyond a certain point (which is the default view in my current config). do you have an ipkg? did you get gpsd support to compile? I've tried compiling the svn version, but I get the following during 'make': /usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lpq collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [osm2navit] Error 1 om-conf seems to work, although it still isn't enabling gpsd. -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Thanks, but I've got the map problem sorted out, I think... now I just need to get it working with gpsd... Gilles Casse wrote: > Le mar 05/08/08 08:09, "Dale Maggee" [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: > >> Dale Maggee wrote: >> OK, so I've tried building the maps myself, but I just keep getting 'bad >> request' when I use wget. >> > > This script from the om wiki splits the OSM area in small chunks and > downloads them: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit#Script_to_download_OSM_maps > > Gilles > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Michael Sheldon wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > >> do you have an ipkg? did you get gpsd support to compile? >> >> I've tried compiling the svn version, but I get the following during 'make': >> >> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: >> >> cannot find -lpq >> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status >> make[2]: *** [osm2navit] Error 1 >> >> om-conf seems to work, although it still isn't enabling gpsd. >> > > You shouldn't need to use the separate openmoko buildchain, there's a > navit recipe in openembedded which should build navit and all the > required dependencies. > > Just setup the MokoMakefile: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile > > Then run: make build-package-navit > > This'll probably take a long time, since it'll first have to build the > tool chain and all dependencies. > > If I get time later I'll see about doing a build of it and making it > available. > > Cheers, >Mike. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > I had a read through the MokoMakeFile wiki page, but it looks to me like it has to build other stuff (also mentioned in your message). This mentions requiring about 12Gb of free HDD space, which I don't have... am I missing something? can I just build navit using the MokoMakeFile? will it really need 12Gb? :O -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Harald Koenig wrote: > On Aug 05, Dale Maggee wrote: > > >> Thanks, but I've got the map problem sorted out, I think... now I just >> need to get it working with gpsd... >> > > when I first compiled navit for openmoko I had to add libgps devel > to my (cross) build environment to make ./configure add the gpsd support > (check the tail of the output of configure!), then it worked quite fine. > > here I have tar files (no ipk yet, sorry) from two builds form July 12 > and August 4, just extract them in / and run "navit" in a terminal... > > http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~koenig/navit.arm.1.tgz > http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~koenig/navit.arm.2.tgz > > > Harald > Forgive what is probably a dumb question (I'm not a coder), but how do I install the libgps devel stuff? I noticed the section in the ToolChain Wiki mentioning 'Installing additional libraries into the toolchain'. and I figured this is probably what I needed to do, but I have no Idea where to get libgps...? Thanks, I'll try out your tarballs now... -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
arne anka wrote: >> Forgive what is probably a dumb question (I'm not a coder), but how do I >> install the libgps devel stuff? I noticed the section in the ToolChain >> > > use your distro's package management to find "libgps" and "devel" > this should give you one or more package names like > > libgps-devel > or > libgps-dev > > install it. > with debian and apt i get > > $ apt-cache search libgps devel > libgps-dev - C library for communicating with GPS devices (development > > files) More (dumb?) questions: (this is not really neccessary now, since harald's tarball works, but out of interest / for future reference, it'd be nice to be able to build it myself) I'm using fedora, and doing a 'yum list available', I don't get anything called 'libgps', but I do see: gpsd.i3862.34-3.fc7 development gpsd-clients.i3862.34-3.fc7 development gpsd-devel.i386 2.34-3.fc7 development would this be the same thing with a different name, perchance? and again, forgive me if I'm a moron, but I'm not sure how to reconcile installing these packages with what it says on the toolchain wiki page under 'Installing additional libraries into the toolchain', the wiki page mentions doing: ./configure --host=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi --prefix=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr make make install but in my experience, things I install with yum are precompiled... would I install the -devel package with yum and then use 'rpm -ql' (list package files) to find the files I need? wouldn't I actually want to install a source package (probably named something like "gpsd-src")? Thanks, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
Success! extracted navit.arm.2.tgz to ./ on the FR, did some configurification to use my australia map, and it works! It's *very* slow (~1fps) to update the screen at usefull zoom levels, and I seem to have to start the agpsgui and get a fix with that first, but it's working! yay! thanks alot harald! should I need to get a fix with the agpsgui before starting navit? is there something else I should / could do to avoid this step? Ideally it'd be nice to just be able to start navit and drive... Thanks alot to everyone who has helped me out with this! :) Harald Koenig wrote: > On Aug 05, Dale Maggee wrote: > > >> Thanks, but I've got the map problem sorted out, I think... now I just >> need to get it working with gpsd... >> > > when I first compiled navit for openmoko I had to add libgps devel > to my (cross) build environment to make ./configure add the gpsd support > (check the tail of the output of configure!), then it worked quite fine. > > here I have tar files (no ipk yet, sorry) from two builds form July 12 > and August 4, just extract them in / and run "navit" in a terminal... > > http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~koenig/navit.arm.1.tgz > http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~koenig/navit.arm.2.tgz > > > Harald > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit?
arne anka wrote: >> gpsd-devel.i386 2.34-3.fc7 >> development >> > > this should be the right one -- lock inside (yum might be able to list the > content), it should have some or more files ending with .h > > > I can't see a yum option to list files, but there's an info command which gives me the following, among other things: Description: This package provides C header files for the gpsd shared libraries that manage access to a GPS for applications; also Python modules. This makes me think that you're probably correct, and that this is what I want. Trying to install this puts me into a dependency hell I created a long time ago when I knew a lot less and installed two incompatible repositories, the solution which I found being 'don't update'. I'll see if I can get it to install without causing a disaster (It's currently resolving dependencies), but as previously indicated it's not that important anymore, so if it's going to uninstall a heap of my programs I won't worry about it.. > (snip) > until error messages advise otherwise, i think that's not necessary. after > all, you're just linking an app aganinst a well known and available lib. > > >> but in my experience, things I install with yum are precompiled... would >> > > not necessarily (there are actually src.rpm). the devel-packages conatin > additional, usually platform independent, informations like the .h files > and .la, which basically provide informations how other applications may > play together with this app (libgps in our case). > Aha, I see, so this will install the required gps.h file, among other things... > >> I install the -devel package with yum and then use 'rpm -ql' (list >> package files) to find the files I need? >> > > you can do rpm -ql if you're curious about the packages contents, but on > any distribution conforming to lsb there are well defined pathes to > install those files into and to look for. > thus, the compiler should be able to finde the necessary files without any > further action on your side. > > >> wouldn't I actually want to >> install a source package (probably named something like "gpsd-src")? >> > > only if you want to build gps yourself. > in the rare case, there is absolutely no devel package available, you > might use a source package as well, since it contains that .h and .la > files as well -- but that requires a certain amount of configuration to > make the compiler find them. > I understand! Thanks alot for clearing up my confusion! :) I'll let you know if I manage to get it installed. -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: wrong offset of mouse in landscape mode (and scummvm)
Evan wrote: > Is there more to the setup than meets the eye? the image setup isn't really > documented. i ended up downloading all the ipk files, and doing opkg install > on > them (with the scummvm ipk being installed last), and everything appeared > good > until i tried running scummvm. > > from the menu, the screen turned landscape for a second ,then turned back to > normal and nothing happened. > > i tried running it from the terminal (hoping to get a more detailed error > message) and got the following > /usr/bin/openmoko-scummvm: line 10: scummvm: not found > > upon opening the openmoko-scummvm file in a text editor, i saw that it was > simply a shell script that was set to execute scummvm, for which i didn't see > a > binary. it looks like the scummvm_0.9.1.bb file could be useful, but i am not > having any luck getting that to do anything. > > are there any files i have to get that aren't on this page here? > http://buildhost.automated.it/scummvm/ > > Yorick Moko wrote: > > at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Scummvm there is a pre-built image > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Iker Berasaluce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> 2008/7/30 Evan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>> dumb question, but just out of curiousity, what version of scummvm are you > >>> guys installing? is it one of the binary packages from the scummvm > >>> website? > >>> i'm not sure what packaging formats the freerunner can handle, and wasn't > >>> sure if it could take deb or rpm files, or which package i should download > >>> (or if i'm on the completely wrong track and there is an opkg install > >>> package for it). even if it isn't working perfect, i'd like to check it > >>> out. > >>> > >> One of the first things I want to do when I get my FR is installing > >> scummvm, > >> so I don't think its a dumb question and I'm interested in the answer too. > >> > I'm having exactly the same problem with scummVM as described above. Looking I found /usr/bin/scummvm, but trying to run it i get : /bin/sh: /usr/bin/scummvm: not found which is very odd, because I can type "/usr/bin/scum[TAB]", and it autocompletes to scummvm. the file is marked as executable. I can't see anything wrong. does anyone have any Ideas? Thanks, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: wrong offset of mouse in landscape mode (and scummvm)
Mike Montour wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > > >> /bin/sh: /usr/bin/scummvm: not found >> >> which is very odd, because I can type "/usr/bin/scum[TAB]", and it >> autocompletes to scummvm. the file is marked as executable. I can't see >> anything wrong. >> >> does anyone have any Ideas? >> > > For binaries this may indicate an OABI/EABI issue. There are different > binary formats for ARM; Openmoko now uses EABI but binaries built for > other platforms may be OABI. If you have binutils you can run "readelf > -l " and look for the "Requesting program interpreter:" line. > > If it's a shell script, then it may be a similar problem with the > command interpreter, e.g. if the script's first line is "#!/bin/bash" > but you do not have /bin/bash installed. > > p.s. I just checked the wiki page that was mentioned up-thread, and it > looks like it's pointing to an old package from the "2007.1" days when > Openmoko was using OABI binaries. There's a bitbake recipe for scummvm > in OE so it should be easy to build an updated package if there's not > one already available in the feeds. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > installed binutils, [Requesting program interpreter: /lib/ld-linux.so.2] /lib/ld-linux.so.2 doesn't exist. tried symlinking it to /lib/ld-linux.so.3, but this gave me a pile of other errors about missing .so files, so I'd say you're on the right track. looks like tomorrow's project will be setting up the mokomakefile, and trying to compile scummvm. thanks! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO ringtone
Guillaume Chereau wrote:
> Just for your information, with the new events system, it will soon be
> different. You will have to edit the rule.yaml file. It looks like this
> now :
>
> -
> # This rule will play a ring tone when a call is incoming
> trigger: CallStatus()
> filters: HasAttr(status, "incoming")
> actions:
> - PlaySound("/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid")
> - StartVibration()
> -
> # This one will stop the ring tone when the call is in an other state
> trigger: CallStatus()
> filters: Not(HasAttr(status, "incoming"))
> actions:
> - StopSound("/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid")
> - StopVibration()
>
> So you will need to replace the path to the path you want.
> Still not as good as a real user interface, but better than being
> hard-coded in the framework code.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 01:53 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote:
>
>> add this on the wiki :D it seems nice and should be automated in a
>> really simple way! :)
>>
>> 2008/8/7 Angus Ainslie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 3:40 PM, simarillion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
On Wednesday 06 August 2008 20:20:29 Angus Ainslie wrote:
> Where is the FSO ring tone saved ?
>
> Angus
>
I think it's /usr/share/sounds/
But I'm not sure.
>>> Thanks ,
>>>
>>> Thats exactly where it is.
>>>
>>> /usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid
>>>
>>> Now to change it is a little bit of fun.
>>>
>>> first in
>>>
>>> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.py
>>>
>>> Change the line that reads:
>>>
>>> decoder = gst.element_factory_make( "siddec", "decoder" )
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> decoder = gst.element_factory_make( "mad", "decoder" )
>>>
>>>
>>> and change the line that reads:
>>>
>>> filesrc.set_property( "location", "/usr/share/sounds/Arkanoid_PSID.sid" )
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> filesrc.set_property( "location", "/usr/share/sounds/ringtone" )
>>>
>>> Then
>>>
>>> mv
>>> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.pyo
>>> /home/root
>>>
>>> then reboot the phone ( I'm sure there's a better way to regenerate
>>> receiver.pyo but I don't know it )
>>>
>>> Now you can link /usr/share/sounds/ringtone to any mp3 and that will be your
>>> ringtone
>>>
>>> Angus
>>>
SIDs for a ringtone?
.
.
.
*THAT'S*
.
.
.
*AWESOME*!
.
.
.
/me adds this to the list of things you can't do on any other phone...
___
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Re: FSO ringtone
Aaron Sowry wrote: >> SIDs for a ringtone? >> . >> . >> . >> *THAT'S* >> . >> . >> . >> *AWESOME*! >> . >> . >> >> > I can't wait to have my phone play the Bubble Bobble theme song to me > when it rings :) > > Yeah, Bubble Bobble works, but my favorite has always been the music from R-type... I also loved the music from RoboCop and Maniac Mansion. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some commentary on the new Openmoko direction, and a review of FSO
Wolfgang, I just wanted to say thanks for this very informative response! :) -Dale Wolfgang Spraul wrote: > Dear Kevin, > thanks for writing your review, for us at Openmoko nothing is better > than a genuine reality check from outside. > Executive summary first: I understand that we have not done a very > good job at communicating our software strategy, and I accept > responsibility for that. > > In detail, let me go through some of your comments: > > ---1 > > The ASU was a proof-of-concept image that combined Qtopia, > Enlightenment and GTK > > I would say it's more than proof-of-concept. When Qtopia became fully > GPL in November last year, we looked at it technically. Trolltech > published great binary images for the Neo 1973 but we couldn't > immediately use them because Qtopia ran on the framebuffer not on X, > and we did not want to give up GTK+. By February, we had come to the > conclusion that porting Qtopia onto X, retaining GTK+ support, would > be technically feasible for Openmoko. Our initial estimate was 2-4 > months. So we started. Qtopia is an addition to the Openmoko software > stack. > > ---2 > > "ASU" and 2008.8 are the same thing for the most part. > > Correct. > > ---3 > > The GTK based 2007.02 line was obsoleted (or some might argue > deprecated ... > > I would say neither obsoleted nor deprecated. Bringing Qtopia (and > especially Enlightenment) in _TEMPORARILY_ broke GTK+, that's one > reason why we didn't release more ASU builds earlier. > Actually the real breakage of the GTK+ telephony apps came from > Enlightenment, which forced us to replace matchbox. > We also wrote a new launcher, Illume. > Then we went back to fix the GTK+ part, adding the theme back in, > making it easy to switch from what are now the default Qtopia > telephony apps to the GTK+ telephony apps. That part is not yet > entirely finished. When 2008.8 is released, you still will not be able > to remove Qtopia with a few clicks, and switch back to GTK+. Neither > can you have both installed at the same time. We are very interested > that both of that works, if nobody in the community picks this up then > we will. We are already on it actually, like I said fixing the GTK+ > telephony apps that got broken by the introduction of Enlightenment > and Qtopia is something we do for a while already. > > ---4 > > The ASU and Framework were announced at roughly the same time. > > Please don't read anything into this. Openmoko is a real open source > project. What you may feel are two 'announcements' 'at the same time' > are in reality probably several emails from people in different parts > of the world that are _NOT_ synchronized to the degree that you might > see this from the typical company. In many companies, all you will > hear is the marketing department. So they always speak with one voice. > At Openmoko, even full-time, fully paid employees have no restrictions > whatsoever to post private opinions, blogs, etc. In fact we encourage > them! Please factor that in... > > ---5 > > To the community is appeared as if Sean Moss-Pultz had pulled a > decision out of his ass to abandon the software that people knew and > go with Qtopia instead > > I agree some people felt like that, and it's not good. Again we have > no unified marketing message, and we don't want to introduce any kind > of 'gag order' for engineers (a lot of them would leave if we would > try that anyway ;-)) > I will try to do better going forward communicating our technical > strategy. > > ---6 > > The biggest unanswered question was "I want to develop an app for > Freerunner, what should I start with?" > > Yes, big problem. Right now a lot of the new things we are doing are > implemented in Python using Python-ETK bindings. > Check out the sources here: > http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/?root=exposure > Now, this is not the end of the story. You can also develop using GTK > +, or Qtopia. We even have quite good Java support (Jalimo) on the > Neo. And so on. > We are fully aware that we need to provide an entry point that is AS > EASY AS POSSIBLE to use. We are working towards that, but I think you > need to give us a few more months until we have good tutorials, sample > sources, development/installation methods, etc. At least you will be > able to see it coming together alive, I hope it's not too stressful :-) > > ---7 > > Mickey Lauer posted again, making it pretty clear that my > assumptions [that ASU and Framework were complimentary projects] were > wrong > > You must have misunderstood Mickey. ASU and Framework are absolutely > complimentary. > Behind the scenes it is all melting together. Luckily Linux is a multi- > process environment :-) > ASU means Enlightenment and Qtopia were brought into the Openmoko > software stack. It will be released as Om 2008.8. > FSO/Framework means many more dbus services will
Re: FSO ringtone
> :) > > This may be insane to a lot of people, but being forced into WAV or MP3 has > been one of my strongest motivations for joining Openmoko Inc on their > struggle to create an open mobile communications platform. > > I *want* my SIDs and MODs. Now we're there. > > MODs Too?!? doubly awesome! The only problem I'll have will be choosing what ringtone to use! * IK+ Music * R-Type Theme * Maniac Mansion Theme * RoboCop Music * Bubble Bobble Theme Mods: * Terminal velocity music (TV has one of the best soundtracks ever, and the mods are freely available: http://www.fileplanet.com/45179/4/fileinfo/Terminal-Velocity-Game-Music) * Unreal / Unreal Tournament Music ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO: settings and profiles
Matt Joyce wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Fredrik Wendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> And there is a profile switcher planned I hope? >>> >> I just can't let go of the idea of having several profiles activated at >> the same time, so I'll spam you all once more (last time, I promise). >> >> Locations: >> - work >> - home >> - cinema >> - lecture hall >> - hospital >> - amusement park >> >> Activities: >> - coding (default) >> - none (default for others) >> - meeting >> - in a phone call >> - lecture / conference >> - watching a movie >> - exercising (biking anyone?) (it could detect the wii fit bluetooth MAC >> addresses in the air as well) >> >> Time based: >> - after bed time >> - tuck in time (put the kid(s) to sleep) >> - lunch >> - working hours >> - Simpsons >> >> Other: >> - phone is upside down on a table (only flash lights, no buzz or >> ringtone) >> - battery is running low >> - far from home (send e-mail with GPS coordinates every hour) >> - vacation (don't send GPS coordinates every hour) >> - bluetooth headset is in range (and paired) >> - home media center (and asterisk) is in range (redirect music) >> >> Being able to have just _one_ context/setting/mood at a time is so >> restricting. >> >> >> When I go to lunch (12-13, or 12 am to 1 pm) I generally put the phone >> in my pocket so I want the ringing sound to be louder. BUT, if I'm in a >> lunch meeting with a client (the meeting's in the calendar) I don't want >> to be disturbed (except by family and day care numbers), hence there >> should be no ringtone at all. >> >> This is also true while exercising (louder), unless it's tuck in time >> for the kids and I'm at home (Wii Fit). >> >> If I'm at the cinema the GSM should turn off, unless I'm at a conference >> (in my calendar) which would only turn ringtone off (or send it to my BT >> headset at a low volume). If I'm a presenter I'd like all calls to be >> rejected (unless family + day care) so I won't be interrupted while >> using the FreeRunner as a remote control (next slide, etc - too bad it >> didn't come with a laser beam/LED as well :). >> >> >> I'd love the idea of having more than one profile (context) active at >> the same time - my daily life simply isn't that simple that one profile >> fits. I don't want to be locked up in old locked down cellphone >> behaviour - I want to be free. ;) >> >> / Fredrik Wendt >> >> > > Much of what you have described was articulated in this [1] thread, > including profile aggregation. > I strongly encourage people to post their similar ideas so hopefully > developers will be able to anticipate future requirements. > > With regards to applying multiple profiles (which I really like), some > thought will have to go in to resolving conflicts. > > For instance, if we have two rules : > > On set profile foo; > On set profile bar; > > The profile may be opposites, if they trigger at the same time, which > should win out ? > > > [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/thread.html#22447 > > > Matt > Some great Ideas here (I especially like the 'face down phone is silent' one), I only have one suggestion, now that I know that we can have SID and MOD files as our ringtone: Ringtone randomisation! Each profile comes with a list of ringtones, not just one, and I assign a probability to each one to set how often it's played (or I can press the 'equalise' button to make them properly random. Of course, if I have a ringtone associated with a contact, that would override the randomisation. But then, maybe that contact has it's own 'ringtone playlist' associated with it, not just one tone. When I say 'Ringtone', I also mean 'message tone', 'calendar event tone', 'alarm clock tone', 'friend is nearby tone', 'dog is chewing freerunner tone', etc... :) -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO ringtone
Clemens Kirchgatterer wrote: > Dale Maggee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> * IK+ Music >> * R-Type Theme >> * Maniac Mansion Theme >> * RoboCop Music >> * Bubble Bobble Theme >> > > where is "skate or die"? /me loves the 4 bit samples. > > clemens > Wow, it seems that there's a C64 game I haven't played! :O ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
2008.08 - First Impressions
I've been playing with 2008.08 for a little while now, and I thought I'd share some first impressions. Firstly, it's *gorgeous* - eyecandy city! I *really* like the look and feel of it! It's much more friendly and less 'clunky' feeling than 2007.2. I had a couple of issues on first boot - It seemed _very_ slow - I'm talking 5-10 seconds between me pressing something and getting any feedback on the keypad at the PIN entry screen. After a reboot this seems to have gone away. Also I find the default sleep time painfully short, and I don't think it should go straight into sleep - there should be a period where it dims / turns off the screen but doesn't actually sleep, like in 2007.2 The graphical installer is great! I really like this, although I agree with the opinion stated elsewhere that the text is too big, and I'd really like to see the 'description' text on the package details screen, so that I know what the package is (names aren't always that informative). Pet peeves / suggestions: * Power management - still doesn't work properly - exactly the same problem as 2007.2 - the phone wakes up when a call comes in, but doesn't make any noise. If I answer the phone, I can't hear the other person and they can't hear me. This leave me with two options - turn off power management, or be prepared to reboot the phone and call people back, neither of which is particularly good. * keyboard - Predictive text is annoying as hell. I really don't think this is neccessary for a qwerty keyboard. I love the predictive text on my nokia phone that I have for work, but it only has a numeric keypad. The whole point of qwerty IMHO is being able to type quickly, and the predictive text just seems to get in the way of this. There should at least be a way to turn off the predictive text. also I find the way it automatically inserts spaces frustrating - it took me *far* to long to enter the address of my mail server when setting it up for email - the lack of consistent copy and paste also attributed to this. - I'd like to see letters on the numeric keypad screen. For example, the PIN on my sim card is a word typed using the numbers on my phone keypad, not a number - I have no idea what the numbers in my PIN are! in order to enter my pin using this numpad, I have to get out my nokia and look at it's keypad and then type in the numbers. I also think that the conventional numpad layout (123 \n 456 \n 789 \n *0#) would make it easier to use, although this may just take a bit of time to adapt to.. - Enter Key - I'd really like to see an enter key on the qwerty keyboard, in addition to getting rid of the predictive text. This would make using the terminal MUCH easier. I'd also like to see a period and hyphen on the qwerty keyboard, for the same reasons (would vastly improve using the terminal). * The clock should be an application, not hidden away in settings * Installer should be in settings, I don't really think it needs to be on the home screen * using the Aux button for lock is nice, but I think it should be harder to unlock - there's a chance (admittedly small) that aux might get pressed in my pocket. Personally, I really liked the screen lock on 2007.2, where you had to drag one icon onto the other - I thought that this was a novel and very functional unlock mechanism. * The home screen needs a way to set up categories/ folders - I can see it getting *very* cluttered if I install alot of applications Overall, I think that openmoko have made a *big* leap forward with 2008.08, keep up the great work! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om 2008.8 doesn't ask for my pin so no gsm available
Peter Mogensen wrote: > > I flashed the new kernel and image but if I boot now I'm not getting > > asked for a pin. There's no gsm in 2008.8 for me... > > This seem to be a common problem. > The PIN-dialog does come up once in a while though. Restarting the > X-server can make it appear. > But even though to enter the correct PIN and the dialog closes without > error, there's no GMS available. > > Trying to talk AT to the modem manually doesn't seem to work either. It > just hangs. > I tried move the SIM to an old phone an it still works OK. Somehow the > FreeRunner seemded to have disabled PIN on the SIM though, so I had to > re-enable. > > Peter > It works for me, I enter my pin and then can make and recieve calls, but it takes maybe 30-60 seconds for the 'enter pin' prompt to come up after x has started, and I've only once seen the GSM status thingy up the top indicating that it had a signal, it usually has the 'no signal' exclamation mark, although I can still make and recieve calls ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
>> The graphical installer is great! I really like this, although I agree >> with the opinion stated elsewhere that the text is too big, and I'd >> really like to see the 'description' text on the package details screen, >> so that I know what the package is (names aren't always that informative). >> > > So you don't think it should be usable without a stylus? > > Not really, I don't see a need - Installing software is not something you're going to be doing five times a day while on the train on the way to work. Sure, you _might_ use it once a day, but i think for that one time you can fumble around and find your stylus. And even if you are installing software 5 times a day, on the train and have lost your stylus, you can always use your keys ;) The letters on the keyboard are smaller than the text in the installer, and they're pressable with fingers. I didn't say the text should be small, just not so enormous! >> * keyboard >> - Predictive text is annoying as hell. >> > > Agreed. > There seem to be some kind of "interface nazism" (to quote Thorvalds) > going on. > Apart from the predictive keyboard being *really* annoying - especially > if you are typing URL's, shell commands or a non-english language!! then > I don't understand this idea that there can't be a bring-up-the-keyboard > button. (yes I know I can install a qwerty-button). > For me the correct way is like qtopia: > * Have a bring-up-the-keyboard button > * Have change-input-method option > * Have a set of different keyboards (multitap,full > qwerty,handwriting,om2008-like) to toggle between. > * Be able to turn predictive keyboard OFF > ... and for goods sake... don't make a keyboard without a delete key. > > Yeah, well put. It's not just the predictive text either when typing URLs. for example, typing in my mail server was *horrible* - - i type 'mail', then tap the word 'mail' to insert it into the textbox - then I stroke down until I get to the screen with the period, then i press that, then i tap the period at the top to put it in the textbox. - this inserts a space after "mail.", so i have to position the cursor after the space and stroke left for backspace, then reposition the cursor at the end of the line. - then I stroke up a couple of times to get back to qwerty - then I type internode, but internode isn't in the dictionary so I have to type and tap on 'inter' - then I repeat the space erasure procedure. - then I type type 'node', click on 'node' - then I repeat space erasure procedure. - then I have to type 'on.net' using this same painfull process. and these are all dictionary words! multiply the annoyance by 2 seconds for each keypress if your mailserver / URL isn't made up of dictionary words! :O compare this with 21 stylus taps using the matchbox keyboard. and this isn't even a particularly difficult thing to be typing! I think the real solution to make everybody happy will be a set of different keyboards: a multitap-type keypad like on a phone, a stylus-friendly full qwerty keyboard like matchbox keyboard, and a finger-friendly, multi-mode qwerty keyboard like the one we have (with an option to turn off the predictive text), aimed primarily at finger-friendly texting. >> - I'd like to see letters on the numeric keypad screen. For example, >> the PIN on my sim card is a word typed using the numbers on my phone >> keypad, not a number - I have no idea what the numbers in my PIN are! in >> order to enter my pin using this numpad, I have to get out my nokia and >> look at it's keypad and then type in the numbers. >> > > Arhh... go write it down, then. > So, just to be clear, you're telling me that I should totally void any security which this pin provides by writing it down? If I'm going to do that, I might as well just disable the PIN. I did say 'I'd like to see', not "OMFG THIS IS THE WORST!". ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usable Keyboard
> 2) can choose the word I actually typed. Yeah, This would improve the usability immensely! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usable Keyboard
> please check the mail list archives about terminal and asu, and check the > keyboard in FSO. the keyboard in ASU is the qtopia keyboard. for better or > worse. illume has it's own internal keyboard that does give you all these > things, but it was decided that this was not what was wanted. i've > participated > in long threads on the topic of the keyboard in ASU. :) you're repeating what > a > lot of people keep saying. > > as i've said before - i intend to fork and do my own ui (as opposed to the ASU > you see) that actually has a lot of the things everyone is clamouring for > (more configuration, different/better/more configurable keyboard, different > launcher setup etc.). a lot of these features already lurk under the hood in > the code and are simply configured to be off and/or inaccessible. > unfortunately > - this is going to have to sit on a backburner and await whatever spare time i > find for it as i have resigned from openmoko (effective end of august). i'll > do > what i can over time, but my priorities will be to keep myself fed and housed > :) > You're welcome to sleep on my couch while you're fixing the keyboard... ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usable Keyboard
> Press and hold the letter for about 1.5-2 sec. I'm aware of this > Quite easy to form words this > way. Granted, it's not difficult, but it's damn time-comsuming! typing my name takes nearly 10 seconds this way! :O > Using FSO image these days but i used to type on the terminal in > Qtopia easily with this keyboard. > How did you type "/" quickly? > Enter is sliding finger towards the right quickly! > Are you sure it's enter and not space? -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usable Keyboard
Michael Sheldon wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > >>> Press and hold the letter for about 1.5-2 sec. >>> >> I'm aware of this >> >>> Quite easy to form words this >>> way. >>> >> Granted, it's not difficult, but it's damn time-comsuming! typing my >> name takes nearly 10 seconds this way! :O >> >>> Using FSO image these days but i used to type on the terminal in >>> Qtopia easily with this keyboard. >>> >>> >> How did you type "/" quickly? >> >>> Enter is sliding finger towards the right quickly! >>> >>> >> Are you sure it's enter and not space? >> > > Sliding right will send the currently selected word to the application > (same as tapping the word). The return key is on the symbols page, on > the bottom right. > Yeah, and if you slide right with no currently selected word, you get a space. enter requires the 'hold for 2 seconds' rigmarole -D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
ted braak wrote: > Thanks for your impression. Really helpful in deciding NOT to install this. I > am pretty amazed you claim that the OM team have made a big leap forward and > also saying this version still has issues with the basic functionality of the > phone.. Power management, calling, sms and intuitive entering of text without > stylus should be the main focus. The rest can follow later (even GPS). > > Of course this is not a fact, it is just my opinion. > Haha, That was written within very shortly after installing it. Since then, the 'annoyances' have elevated themselves to 'extreme frustrations', and I've become thoroughly disenfranchised with it - I'm restoring my FR back to 2007.2 as I type this... I maintain that the interface at least is a big leap forward - it's very slick and pretty, and it shows alot of promise - once the bugs have been worked out to the point where it's on par with 2007.2 for stability, and something has been done about the *awful* keyboard, I'll happily go back to it. In the meantime, though, a pretty-looking paperweight has the same functionality as an ugly looking one - I'll take usability over eyecandy any day... In my opinion, your opinion is spot on - eyecandy is all well and good but making the thing work should be a much higher priority. -D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video demo: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Features Accelerometer-based Gestures, and Screen Orientation
Cool! Paul-Valentin Borza wrote: > Hi, > > As Google Summer of Code 2008 is almost at its end, here's a video showing > what you should expect out of the accelerometer-based gestures project: > http://digg.com/gadgets/Openmoko_Neo_Freerunner_Motion_Gestures_Screen_Orientation_2 > > There still are some things that need to be worked on for the GUI, but I > will release another package on Thursday/Friday with everything you've just > seen in the YouTube video. > > Again, big thanks to Daniel for helping me out with the problems I have > encountered on the way. Thanks Daniel! > This doesn't mean that I'll stop working on the project; on the contrary, I > will continue to improve it, and I'll use the Neo for my primary development > target. > > More on http://gestures.borza.ro > > Thanks, > Paul > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]
Wendy, I'd really like to be notified when these bugs are fixed, specifically: - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send SMS??? (With alert message"no network") - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. These are the two major issues which made me go back to 2007.2. Is there a way I can be notified of this? will there be an announcement on the list? Also, while I disagree with the 'aha, and you released anyway' comment and don't necessarily see anything wrong with releasing in an unstable state, I do think that it should have been made clear(er) in the announcement that OM's QA team had said "Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8" I think that the talk of debian style stable/testing/unstable branches is a good idea. Thanks, -Dale Wendy wrote: > Dear community, > > here is the QA report which has been created before Om 2008.8 was released. > We > simply forgot to send this report to a public list because we were too busy > with the release preparations. Sorry. > > More details about our bugs can be found in our bug tracker > [http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/], and also check our wiki page > [http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Cases] to understand our work and to > contact us. > > Currently we are working on a bugfix release which addresses the major issues > you experienced. > > Stay tuned and thanks for you support, > Wendy > > > > > Subject: > [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ] > From: > Wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: > Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:54:41 +0800 > To: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Hi All, > > here are the major bugs from our latest image of Om 2008.8, > - Out going call can not really disconnect by "End Call" if the other one > did > not pick up the call. > - Some of the testing phone can not make phone calls but can receive/send > SMS??? (With alert message"no network") > - qpe crashed all the time in one of our testing phone. > - Two of our phone can not wake up from suspend time. > - WiFi can not work (show up "unknown" all the time) > - Can't take GSM signal right away after on the device > - [#1661] Unable to send saved tags by entering number (Locations) > - [#1635] After x hours the call active will become unstable. Can't receive > or make a phone call normally. > > Due to all these critical major bugs, from our testing team point of view: > Not stable enough to release our Om 2008.8. > > > Best Regards, > Wendy > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit OSM Map Convert
carcinoma wrote: > Hi Community, > > i'm in progres to convert the OSM Map of Berlin into an > Navit Binary map File. > > Does anyone have some experiences with that? > > The Map i created and loaded into navit looks more like a "fuzzy" map. > I followed the instructions on the wiki. used the python script for > downloading > and the osm2navit tool for convert. > > What's wrong here? > > Carci > I found that the maps in navit don't look very good when zoomed out - does it look better when you zoom in? -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Adding libraries/packages to the toolchain using bitbake / openembedded
Florian Hackenberger wrote: > Hi! > > I'm trying to build navit using the openmoko toolchain. The problem is > that it seems to require the libgps include files for gpsd support. > Ideally I'd like to add a package to the toolchain using a bitbake > recipe from the openmoko git repository. I have tried to find the > relevant documentation on the wiki, but have only found [1], which > seems to be an odd way (replicating all the work which went in to the > bitbake recipes). Can someone please explain how to add packages to the > installed toolchain using bitbake? I'll volunteer to document the > procedure on the Wiki as soon as it works for me. > > Cheers, > Florian > > [1] > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Installing_additional_libraries_into_the_toolchain > You may want to have a look at this earlier thread about Navit: http://n2.nabble.com/Navit--td669852ef1958.html#none I didn't manage to compile it in the end, but there are links to compiled versions there which I ended up using. The short answer to your question appears to be that you need to install libgpsd or gpsd-devel on your machine, using whatever packaging tool your distro uses. The concensus seems to be that once you install this, the build process will find the file it needs without any fuss. As I said, I didn't manage to compile it, though, so I can't say for certain... Cheers, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Adding libraries/packages to the toolchain using bitbake / openembedded
Florian Hackenberger wrote: > On Friday 15 August 2008, Dale Maggee wrote: > >> You may want to have a look at this earlier thread about Navit: >> I didn't manage to compile it in the end, but there are links to >> compiled versions there which I ended up using. >> > Thanks, I'm using the compiled packages, but I'd like to fix a few bugs > in navit. > Feel free to build an ipk with your fixes! ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit patch for faster map dragging
> PS: Please download the ipk using wget and then invoke opkg on the > downloaded file (instead of invoking opkg using the URL). There seems > to be a problem with opkg and the apache gzip compression. > Yeah, it gives the somewhat cryptic message: " opkg: invalid magic" This is great, two of the things I've been hoping for for navit (faster drawing and an ipk), but I wasn't able to install this, here's the output: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg install navit_0.1.0+svnrev1255-r0_armv4t.ipk Multiple packages (navit and navit) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest. Installing navit (0.1.0+svnrev1255-r0) to root... navit: unsatisfied recommendation for speechd navit: unsatisfied recommendation for flite Collected errors: * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for navit: * libspeechd2 (>= 0.6.6) * I don't see anything called libspeechd when I do an opkg list... Using 2007.2 -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit patch for faster map dragging
Florian Hackenberger wrote: > On Sunday 17 August 2008, Lothar Behrens wrote: > >> I had the same issue, but doing the same with -nodeps worked here >> too. >> > Sorry, forgot to mention that the ipk dependencies are a mess. You need > the -force-depends option (-nodeps is similar). > Thanks, but now I get this: ** (process:1704): WARNING **: can't load '/usr/lib/navit/*/lib*.so', Error '/usr/lib/navit/*/lib*.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory' navit:vehicle_new:invalid type 'gpsd' navit:map_new:invalid type 'binfile' ** (process:1704): WARNING **: no gui Using 'navit.xml' No instance has been created, exiting doing 'ls -R /usr/lib/navit/' gives me a list of all the libraries set out in a directory structure, so the libraries are there... any Ideas why it's not finding them? Thanks, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit patch for faster map dragging
>>> these * look odd. did you put them in there or are the really from >>> navit? >>> >> The problem is that the navit package contains only so.0.0.0 libs and .so.0 >> symlinks - navit trys to open the libs with a simple .so >> >> Broken package. >> >> Flo >> > > changing navit.xml from > > > > to > > > > solves this for me (it starts) > > Carci > > Yep, this works, thanks! :) In response to Arne: It's really from navit, I/we didn't put it there... I'm now seeing a message telling me: WARNING **: gps_open failed for 'gpsd://localhost'. Retrying in 10 seconds. Have you started gpsd? so I tried: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/navit# /etc/init.d/gpsd start and got: Starting gpsd: No GPS device, aborting gpsd startup. Check /etc/default/gpsd with a bit more investigation, the AGPS Gui works just fine, as does GPS Sight (although I have to run AGPS Gui and get a fix before running GPS Sight), but TangoGPS is saying "No GPS Found". I can cat /dev/ttySAC1 and I get data... have I broken it somehow? Any thoughts? to OP: This patch is great! scrolling is *MUCH* faster! Great work! :) -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lock version of package with opkg
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm using the scaredycat repo and gpsd doesn't seem to work right. Is > there any way to lock the old version so I can do an 'opkg upgrade' > without upgrading gpsd? > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > I think this might be the same problem I'm having, how would I go about downgrading to a working version? I'm assuming I'd use "opkg -force-downgrade", but what version of gpsd is known to be working? link? Thanks, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SDHC 16GB 15MB/s card
Mikko Rauhala wrote: > ti, 2008-08-19 kello 18:06 -0400, Geoff Ruscoe kirjoitti: > >> I am looking to upgrade my Micro SDHC card and I found: >> a 16GB Sandisk w / 15MB/s speeds. This sounded like a winner to me, >> but I wasn't sure if it would work. >> >> The model number is: SDSDRH-016G-A11 >> > > Googling this model number finds an SDHC card. _Not_ a µSDHC card. It > will not fit mechanically. > > Also, I haven't seen 16G cards (µSDHC ones) on the market yet, though > certainly they're coming. (By the way, a 15MB/s card is kind of overkill > on the FR, it can't manage half that - just for future reference, if you > find yourself wondering whether to spend extra bucks for card speed.) > > Anyway, any µSDHC card "should" work. In case of unexpected > incompatibility, 1) finetune the Glamo SD clock and/or other settings > and report back 2) return the card and get a different model. > > I have a sandisk 8gb card, and it works just fine. I seem to recall reading somewhere that 8gb was the biggest a FR could handle? or was it that 8gb is the biggest that is known to work? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SDHC 16GB 15MB/s card
arne anka wrote: >> I have a sandisk 8gb card, and it works just fine. I seem to recall >> reading somewhere that 8gb was the biggest a FR could handle? or was it >> that 8gb is the biggest that is known to work? >> > > what means "fine" exactly? > - no bootsector corruption? > - no sudden data corruption? > - lost card on resume? > > if so, which kernel are you using? > > "fine" means "with no troubles" ;) - bootsector corruption? I haven't tried booting off it yet - I've not seen any data corruption - I usually have power management turned off, because I don't trust it and the FR is my primary phone, but the few times I have used suspend / resume I've seen no problems. kernel: Not entirely sure how to determine this. If you can let me know how to find out more specifically, I'll be happy to tell you. In the meantime, maybe this will help? "opkg list_installed | grep kernel" seems to give me two: kernel - 2:2.6.24+git35+2d61a7406ec89893cdb4246d3f0144818278a5d8-r2 - kernel-2.6.24 - 2:2.6.24+git35+2d61a7406ec89893cdb4246d3f0144818278a5d8-r2 - uname -a gives me: Linux om-gta02 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Tue Aug 19 04:13:01 CEST 2008 armv4tl unknown ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SDHC 16GB 15MB/s card
Fox Mulder wrote: > Nobody can say exactly if 8GB cards are supported or not because there > exists no bigger cards to try with. ;) > aha, thanks for clarifying :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Navit patch for faster map dragging
Marcus Bauer wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 13:04 +1000, Dale Maggee wrote: > >> so I tried: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/navit# /etc/init.d/gpsd start >> >> and got: >> >> Starting gpsd: No GPS device, aborting gpsd startup. Check >> /etc/default/gpsd >> > The line in /etc/default/gpsd needs to read (for freerunner): > > GPS_DEV="/dev/ttySAC1" > > Then gpsd should start and tangoGPS too. > > That did the trick, thanks! although it still doesn't seem to get a lock until I run AGPS Gui... ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lock version of package with opkg
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:09:15PM +1000, Dale Maggee wrote: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> I'm using the scaredycat repo and gpsd doesn't seem to work right. Is >>> there any way to lock the old version so I can do an 'opkg upgrade' >>> without upgrading gpsd? >>> > > >> I think this might be the same problem I'm having, how would I go about >> downgrading to a working version? I'm assuming I'd use "opkg >> -force-downgrade", but what version of gpsd is known to be working? link? >> > > Try using cat to read the /dev/ttySAC* devices and see if you get NMEA > data from any of them first. I have a suspicion that whatever handles the > naming of the > devices changed after an opkg upgrade to the daily feeds. > > Then change your /etc/default/gpsd file so that it has whatever device > spits out NMEA data. > > Let me know how this turns out. > > Thanks, I sorted it out. it turns out my /etc/defaults/gpsd somehow got renamed to /etc/defaults/gpsd.default. I changed it back and I can now start gpsd. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SDHC 16GB 15MB/s card
arne anka wrote: >> "fine" means "with no troubles" ;) >> >> - bootsector corruption? I haven't tried booting off it yet >> > > that's not necessary -- it manifest itself by total loss partition > informations > aah. Well, no trouble with that then. :) did you still want to know about my kernel? was my information enough / usefull? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Can't get the phone registered (ticket #1766)
julien cubizolles wrote: > There is at the moment a very nasty bug on the phone software of ASU and > FSO images. > > Basically most of the time (more than 9 out of 10) you can't get the > phone registered after the PIN code is entered. This means you can't > make a call but strangely you can always receive calls. > > Sometimes (quite often) you get registered after receiving a call and > receiving the call while in suspend mode seems to make you a little > luckier but maybe it's just wishful thinking. Some suggestions were made > (upgrade with http://people.openmoko.org/zecke/qtopia-testing feeds) but > didn't fix the problem. > > I never add any problem regarding registration with 2007.2 and still > don't have any with the latest Qtopia image. I could stick with Qtopia > for the time being but would very much test ASU. Could it be possible to > somehow get from the Qtopia image the right files/packages/whatever to > just fix the telephony part ? > > Julien. > > > This is known. See http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1766 This is the major deal-breaker for 2008.8 for me - can't use it as a phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Migration to 2008.08
1. I don't think so, mainly because of bug # 1766 - can't be used as a phone. YMMV. 2. negated by 1. Maciej Piechotka wrote: > 1. Is it worthy to migrate to 2008.08 from 2007.02+daily feed? > 2. How to import data (SMS + Phone Book) from 2007.02 into 2008.08. > > Regards > PS. BTW how to delete contacts from SIM card? In 2007.07 it doesn't work - > after restart they reappear. > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Newbie questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robin Paulson wrote: > for a simple stable phone, i'd start with qt ext and then give shr a go > For a simple and stable phone, I'd start with a Nokia... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJtKtYFbVnQRV3OEYRArryAJ4j/4THJ8cUjZcRvCKTLPuWAcBJCQCgvXyv yr7jLbCGOIxXXypDQmZA3zw= =AJvZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > > I find the 'predictive' keyboard quite usable. You just need to forget > what it is suggesting until you are finished with the word. > But for any language other than English, it might be a hassle. > It isn't too bad, but it's very painful as soon as the word you're typing isn't in it's dictionary. It should always offer exactly what you typed as an option, regardless of whether it's in the dictionay or not: If I type "pwned", I should see both "pwned" and "owned" in the word list. It's also completely evil when you try to type just a single character, such as the word "I" or a full stop - I often have trouble tapping on these in the word list to get them to be added to what I'm typing - seems they're too small and require precise tapping. You should be able to add a word to the dictionary very easily, perhaps even automatically adding any word you type which isn't in the dictionary - I use *many* non-dictionary wrds wen im typin an sms, 2 da point where "language other than english' would describe it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvYBLFbVnQRV3OEYRAouhAKCcPqoOISvoBpJI+M/y0CCgvfs60ACgknLW UEXls4NoRCHbn5CFHDK3DCc= =JgbT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Just hold down on the letter you want to select. You will see a round > 'spy glass' thing pop up with your letter. This is all well and good, but it's for all intents and purposes totally useless in practical application - typing anything remotely long or complex (examples: My mail server address, somebody's surname, a phone number, an email address, a street/suburb name, GPS coordinates) takes an *inordinate* amount of time - just try typing out your postal address using that method - you'll soon find that you're developing a powerful urge to stab yourself in the eyeballs with a rusty fork... ;) If typing your postal address doesn't do it, see how long it takes you to type the following (spelling is important!): "yo doodz wots up? im sendin this sms cuz i cbf typin an email you ya, and cuz i wanna demo jus how goddamn awful it is to type wen it takes 3 secs for each bluddy letta. Got ne rusty forks lyin round?" How long does it take you to type 'antidisestablishmentarianism' using this method? Don't forget to also include in this figure the time it takes to type "antidisestablishmentarianism", only to discover that it's not in the dictionary, then delete that, then type it out letter-by-letter. For comparison, here are some figures I just worked out, using a stopwatch to time myself typing 'antidisestablishmentarianism': * My PC - Standard US 101-key IBM Model M qwerty Keyboard - 6.18 seconds * My Ipaq - HP Ipaq 6515 with built-in mini-qwerty keyboard - 12.35 Seconds * FreeRunner running QT extended, using 'predictive keyboard': 81.95 Seconds (almost a minute and a half!) I can't think of a more dramatic way to point out how slow this method is. Obviously I don't expect it to match the Ipaq, but more than 6 times slower than the Ipaq is abysmal. It shouldn't take a minute and a half to type one word. The simple and easy solution is as I noted before: the predictive text should always offer you exactly what you type - if I type "pwned", I want to see "pwned" and "owned" in the word list, regardless of whether "pwned" is in the dictionary. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvahwFbVnQRV3OEYRAq6mAJ0To58Vc54Hru3M1ZKAn6i+xlmDtACfQ570 9m2TNlW85XJ/lAVLcLF0uLQ= =25K7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > > You just need to add your words to the dictionary, so you wont have to > tap so much. > ...which is exactly why it should be very easy, perhaps even automatic, to add words to the dictionary... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvajUFbVnQRV3OEYRAhmqAJ40rBM2gTbrdyxIqj8rsC9KDhB3iQCeOych 9Hx4eiS4RUifG7soyrUBVIY= =1SJT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Typing numbers are not 'suggested'. Fine, be fastidious if you must, You know what I meant. How long did it take you to type your postal address? Now, how long does it take on your PC? Oh... you didn't test it? You didn't bother typing out the sample SMS in my email? Hmmm, Interesting... > I personally do not find the delay all that troublesome. Well, that indicates to me that you're either not using it for everyday use, or that you happen to be a lucky person who's typing dictionary words, or, more likely, that as the developer all the words you use commonly happen to be in the dictionary already (strange, that...) > As I said, if you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. bwahahaha, that's a funny joke. Have you ever tried actually switching to the qwerty keyboard using just your finger? for me, it usually takes at least 3-4 attempts just to bring up the list of input methods. Then there's actually attempting to type on the qwerty keyboard, which we'll get into later... > This is not a very valid usecase. How many times are you going to type > this into your phone in a real world situation? You're incorrect - it's a completely valid, worst-case scenario which serves very well to illustrate the inadequacy of the 'typing one letter at a time' method which you are advocating. In real-world usage, I'll concede that 'antidisestablishmentarianism' isn't used often, but long words which aren't in the dictionary are not at all uncommon, especially given long words combined with sms-speak spelling. How would you suggest a biologist or chemist use this input method to talk about his work? If you're trying to tell me that the biologist needs to put a "biologist's dictionary" on his phone before he can use it, I'll laugh my ass off, and I'll tell you exactly how utterly ludicrous that Idea really is. As a software developer, I'm *very* interested in worst-case scenarios, as they work very well to find all these little inefficiencies - if I can make my software usable in a worst case scenario, it's going to be absolutely brilliant for average, everyday use. I test (and sometimes write) all my software on low-powered machines for this reason If you're not interested in actually making your software robust and useful, maybe you should apply for a job at Microsoft. > For a fact, though, this took me exactly as much time to tap it out, > without having to use the press down method ~10 seconds. Care to clarify on that? to me, this statement makes no sense. If you're saying that you just typed in 'antidisestablishmentarianism' and it was suggested and you were able to choose it because it had no idea what you were typing and showed you what you typed, then you're doing it wrong, and your test is invalid. For it to be a valid test, you need to do the following: 1. *quickly* Type 'antidisestablishmentarianism', as if you're expecting it to be in the dictionary. (Type quickly, and ignore precision, assuming the dictionary will still suggest the correct word even if you accidentally hit a couple of letters wrong). (i.e: If I'm typing 'owned' in an SMS, I don't concern myself if I actually accidentally type "pwned", because I know the dictionary will pick up on my mistake and suggest "owned". For your test to be valid, you need to type 'antidisestablishmentarianism' as if you're expecting it to be in the dictionary - i.e quickly and without precision) 2. Since you typed quickly and without precision, you'll now have something like "antidiseatablishmentaroanusm" (note that my spelling wasn't precise, and I now have an incorrectly spelled word being "suggested". 3. A this point, If I swipe my finger to the left (i.e: backspace) to correct the spelling mistakes, the entire word is erased, and I have to do the 'one letter at a time' bullshit. 4. Alternatively at step 3, I could have tapped on the incorrectly spelled word to have it added to the sms I'm composing, and then edited it by positioning the cursor, backspacing, fixing the mistakes, and repositioning the cursor at the end of the text. I can do that, that is, *if* the software happens to want to let me position the cursor, rather than selecting everything between where I'm trying to put the cursor and the end of the message. I haven't been able to determine exactly what factors influence whether it will let me position the cursor or select text to the end, but I think it has to do with the ambient humidity and wind speed/direction. Of course, This is all as much or more of a hassle than the 'one letter at a time' method which you advocate. Don't you dare even trying to tell me that my test is invalid, and that I need to type with precision in step 1, because if you try to tell me that, then I'll have one very simple and effective retort: What is the point of having a dictionary lookup system like the one in QTe unless it's to figure out what you were trying to type, and correct
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 W.Kenworthy wrote: > > Disable it - find the keyboard files and copy terminal.kbd over the top > of default and numbers. No dictionary, and terminal pops up nicely > instead of those brain dead ones - you wont miss them, I dont. > Thanks for the suggestion Bill, but we're actually talking about QT Extended, not 2008.X - we don't have those keyboards you're talking about. FYI, QTe has: * A (totally, utterly, completely useless) handwriting recognition method. * A (almost completely useless, unless you happen to have a needle, 10 minutes, and are completely still - keys are so tiny I struggle with a stylus) full qwerty terminal keyboard. * A (not quite completely useless, but working towards it, as per our discussion) 'predictive' keyboard, which the 2008.X one was obviously based on at some point. So, in QTe your input choices are SSH, complete shit, utter shit, or just shit. It's kinda like having to choose between death by disemboweling or death by dismemberment. - -D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvd/LFbVnQRV3OEYRAoUWAJ9E0Y9M57YP1FDFjjBnUOmONVQ8HQCeJkMw Uwe9YPuzAnXDk2XovTkDzhE= =I+pE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 W.Kenworthy wrote: > Sounds even worse than shr/2008x/FSO then - why oh why cant some of the > time spent on keyboards for any OM version be put into something that > works. Oh, it's ass-and-a-half-of-full-cream-dairy-milk... ;) Yeah, I can't fathom how something so simple could be fucked up so completely, repeatedly... makes you wonder what the hell is going on in less-visible areas, Although given the travesty that is 2008.x, nothing would suprise me really. > > Never been able to run qt - always tried it on the SD card, which in > hindsight, needed a slow clock. Wasn't game to flash it as I needed a > phone and if it didnt work on SD ... I've never tried it on the SD card, only flashed it. Works *okay* most of the time. All the software in 2008.x is simply the QTe software hacked to run on X, basically what you get with QTe is kind of like a version of 2008.x which isn't a total abomination - it's actually somewhat responsive - pressing 'answer' actually answers the call, rather than initiating a 10 second "preparing to think about acting on your keypress" period. With QTe, at Idle, your CPU usage isn't sitting at 20%! :O Think of 2008.x as the bastard, horribly mutated and deformed offspring of QT Extended and some deranged genetic scientist. It also has it's bugs though: * you need to reboot at least once a day or it'll just stop working, period. (A call will come in, and you'll press 'answer' 300 times, and nothing will happen. Eventually you'll just pull the battery and call whoever was trying to call you). * Also, as mentioned, typing an SMS (especially a long one) is a bit of a joke, particularly if you're in a car / on a train - it takes so long to type anything that you may as well just get yourself some carrier pigeons. * Often when you receive a call, it will come in twice, resulting in a missed call from the same number at the same time. * Whenever you answer a call, it will automagically (and very helpfully) switch itself into speakerphone mode, which usually results in a wonderful burst of ear-splitting feedback. This makes for an excellent conversation point, and serves to liven up your day: *RING* *RING* *SCRCH* me: "Hang on a second" (Switches to handset mode) me: "Hello?" caller: "Hello? Dale?" me: "Yeah" caller: "What the hell was that?!?" me: "Oh, just my phone, it's a piece of junk." caller: "Man, your phone really really sucks ass. I can't believe you actually paid money for it. And I can't believe it *still* doesn't work! you can usually fix anything! Linux must be really shit." me: "Actually, linux is good, it's just OpenMoko that sucks ass. But with the evidence you're seeing/hearing, I can't really argue it, can I?" caller: "Nope. There's no way you'll get me using linux after seeing your phone in action." * Also, most/all messages in your inbox will be duplicated whenever you recieve a new SMS, meaning that your inbox will fill up very quickly if you don't delete your sms messages religiously. Moving these messages to trash and emptying trash may or may not delete them from the inbox, depending on the current weather conditions. This is obviously some super-duper kind of backup mechanism, intended to stop me from accidentally deleting SMS messages which I don't want anymore. > I am finding shr much more usable than the others at the moment - but > even it does have its "quirks" if you want to use it everyday. I haven't tried SHR yet, can't be bothered with the bullshit involved with backing up your phone, importing contacts, etc. Plus IIUC SHR is based on FSO, which still doesn't have any PIM except for contacts stored on the sim, and for me PIM is important. I was very impressed with the last FSO I flashed, but PIM is the dealbreaker for me there - I'm hanging out for FSO to have PIM integrated, then I might actually have a phone. (Well, actually, I'm not hanging out for it - I'm getting my money back on this godawful abortion of a thing and buying a blackberry) - -D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvfFzFbVnQRV3OEYRAucnAJ9c6Cl3OTtQa704ePyiPhd/glLrqACfQ2eD kvYhHAQ6ikLHqH/uJP890BE= =Rrf9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: >> Sounds even worse than shr/2008x/FSO then - why oh why cant some of the >> time spent on keyboards for any OM version be put into something that >> works. > > Well, obviously that is only his one opinion. > Actually, these are facts. > actually, Qtopia is by far the best and most usable phone software for > the Neo. Notice the phrasing: he said "qtopia", not "QT Extended". There were a whole lot of bugs introduced in 4.4.2. Clever misdirection there. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvfK+FbVnQRV3OEYRAuOHAJwOAaM3XG0K8MmQ73tI1rAeIU/6GQCbBFGz 7+cXf1Nchq90xO7Ew8ggomk= =WkVu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Quite actually, I was using the predictive keyboard long before anyone > on this list was, so yes, I have done this. Many times. "Quite actually"??? Quite what? work on your english. So you've done it, many times... awesome... I note however that you didn't actually answer my question: How Long does it take? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... Also, if you'd like to explain why I should CARE IN THE SLIGHTEST that you were using it long before anyone else, I'd love to hear it. > umm, yes. I can access the menu just fine with my finger. > Options -> Change Input Method. ok, fair enough, so you can do it in 2 clicks, which cycles input methods. Neat! Unfortunately, however, as is your usual, you've not really answered my question: I was interested in bringing up the list of input methods, not cycling through them. It should be 2 clicks to change from predictive to qwerty, and 2 to go back. You're advocating 2 clicks to get to the qwerty keyboard, and 7 clicks to get back. How efficient. > A use case is usually something that is very often used and repeatable > for any user. Typing 'antidisestablishmentarianism' is hardly typical. So, you're going to squibble over semantics, rather than actually discussing the issues at hand? right. Sure sounds like you're interested in quality. In all the work I've ever done, I'd consider a worst-case-scenario to be a use case, and very worthy of concern. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't agree with that assessment, then that's a good explanation as to why your software is shit. > No, but he will need to add those words to the common dictionary before > they will show up in the list of words. To enter a word in the > dictionary - simply press and hold the letters method. Are you saying that any word I type which isn't in the dictionary is automatically added? if this is the case then why is the word 'wot', which I use *all the time*, not in my dictionary? Where is 'antidisestablishmentarianism', which I typed earlier today? > There are too many niche scenarios to target, so we targeted common, > most used ones. ...and when someone brings up one you didn't target? Ignore it? stick your head in the sand? tell them that they're imagining it? This is a really great way to write shit software. News flash: Users don't care what your software is designed to do, or what use cases you have designed it to meet, they're interested in what it ACTUALLY DOES and whether it FITS THEIR REQUIREMENTS. This 'uncommon' scenario which you'd like to ignore is a valid, real-world scenario, and worthy of your attention if you're actually serious about writing decent software. If you're not interested in writing decent software, then fine, but you should at least stop pretending it's useful for anybody other than you if you're not interested in other people's "scenarios" (I'll refrain from using the term "use-case" because I'd hate for you to confuse it with something you care about). > No, it was not a suggested word, as it was longer than any suggestions > it could find, so it just took the letters I was typing in. So... you've completely ignored the entire point of my example, and have not addressed the concerns I raise at all. > I did. its not in the dictionary. see my statement above. So... you now have a *misspelled* word in your sms editor? and you not only typed it out, but then corrected that to a properly spelled 'antidisestablishmentarianism', all in under 10 seconds? Obviously this is not what you are claiming... What I'd suggest you do is try actually reading my previous email, following my example steps, and making an informed comment regarding my concerns. As opposed to completely ignoring them and focusing on semantics, which is all you've really done in this email. > Once you do that, your missEnglish word will be in the dictionary, or it > should be. Then it will find it and you won't have to tap the whole word > ever again. Thus saving you hours of tapping time if you would have used > even a desktop keyboard. Right, so you *are* saying that anything I type is added automatically... So, you're telling me that if I accidentally misspell 'antidisestablishmentarianism', the misspelling will be added to the dictionary, and from now on it will *only* suggest the misspelt version, meaning that next time I am *forced* to type it letter-by-letter. wow, how awesome! I think, however, that you're really just digging a big fucking hole for yourself, because 'antidisestablishmentarianism' is *NOT* in my dictionary, and neither are any of the intentional mis-spellings I've typed today (or, in fact, ever, as far as I can see). If I were you, I'd steer clear of espousing the virtues of FEATURES THAT DO NOT WORK - i
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > <_insert previous email here_> > > With optimism, I have to say qte is rather polished and shows what > potential can be gleamed from the FR in certain areas. > > Optimism aside, I have to agree with Dale on pretty much every point. > Although 2008.x is actually quite usable at the moment, comparatively. > > Lorn, Dale did get personal towards the end but I agree with him in that > any rational person would admit or agree that improvements need to be > made. Ignoring, sidestepping and belittling his opinion is only going to > cause frustration. If you think he is wrong, it takes a simple email to > ask the people and gain a consensus. > > Meanwhile, my FR is currently water logged from a surprise downpour (yay > for Melbourne, if we're not burning we're drowning). I doubt it will > boot again, it been drying for a day, I'll leave it for a week and see > what happens. If it fails to boot, I'm buying an iphone. > > I've never ever owned anything apple so don't start ;) I used to play > logo on a IIe though :) > > Looking at the bluish corrosion on the battery terminals ... err ... > yeah, I think it's gone. It was an abysmal phone but I still feel like > I've lost a sheep from the flock or a gnu from the hurd :) > > The Australian component is diminishing quickly :( > > Sarton > Thanks for your support. It is clearly completely unacceptable to sidestep the issues and focus on semantics. burying your head in the sand doesn't make problems go away. That's bad news on the FR, although personally I wouldn't be too upset - you'll now be able to get a real, usable phone. And Personally I'd recommend blackberry's products over an iphone. > If you think he is wrong, it takes a simple email to > ask the people and gain a consensus. Exactly. but we all know this isn't going to happen - how idiotic would you feel when the public survey agrees 98% to 2% that your input methods are absolute shit, especially after you've spent an afternoon defending your retarded position? Cheers, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvg2MFbVnQRV3OEYRAqbhAKCFxu1o0wcqNe5xz8gRk++pQ/AwEACdHmwk AozxpcayY23DSXhpwYBBaLs= =Hxju -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dale Maggee wrote: (Alot, handing Lorn his ass on a silver platter, with dill leaves for garnish and Lorn's choice of Chips with salad or vegetables on the side, Pwning him back to whatever hole he crawled from after 3 months of complete silence followed by an afternoon of complete bullshit). I Forgot one thing in my previous email: PREDICTION: Lorn won't reply cuz I pwned him so hard he has to go to perth to look for his dignity. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvhAEFbVnQRV3OEYRAu3sAJ0Td2avFYHnfD3M8W2q9whoGHwmwQCgv4zM olwNzOGIciOxPzwV8ndNf5Q= =P/PA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Franky, This is not about agreeing or disagreeing, this is about Lorn's refusal to acknowledge that there are issues with his software. All he has to do is a) acknowledge that there are issues b) address the concerns I have raised, rather than commenting that my use of the word "use-case" does not fit his definition and c) stop the lying / idiocy he's currently demonstrating. You'll note that at no point have I ever said that QT Extended isn't the best software currently available for the FreeRunner - I will happily, clearly, and unequivacobly state that QT Extended *is* the best software currently available for the freerunner. However that doesn't mean it isn't shit. Personal attacks are merited, warranted, and infact neccessary when somebody starts lying and/or being monumentally stupid, which is exactly what Lorn has done today. Yes, Lorn was one of the major developers of QT Extended, and credit should be given where it's due: Lorn, as one of the major developers of what is currently the best piece of software available for the FreeRunner, I'd like to take this opportunity to say that you have written a buggy piece of shit. Congrats on that. - -Dale Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: > To Dale (and in a lesser extent to Lorn): > > let's agree to disagree, shall we? Some like the predictive keyboard, some > don't. There should be an easy way to disable the predictive part, for those > that don't like it (or indeed the word you typed should always be the first > suggested). > But that aside: stop ranting please. I agree with you, Dale, that the > keyboard needs work (well, it was my mail that started this all) but I also > agree with Lorn that qtopia (the former name for qtextended) is by far the > best distribution for the openmoko for now (no other even comes close to a > pim, and qtextended imported all my contacts just nicely, with picture > even). > qtextended needs work, the keyboard needs work (in my opinion), etc ... we > all now it :-) Personal attacks should be left aside here, Lorn was one of > the major developpers of qtextended, and give credit where credit is due ... > > Franky > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Dale Maggee wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Lorn Potter wrote: >>> Quite actually, I was using the predictive keyboard long before anyone >>> on this list was, so yes, I have done this. Many times. > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvhJ3FbVnQRV3OEYRAn6FAKC1zLbAEs9rEcMTl8CJkol7fZDpgQCfQ8aF z9O4xrhu66kJCKnJwDHvRfA= =w4rD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Radek, I'm just going to address this in quick dot points: > you must have a problem not related to Qt Extended at all. My issue *is* with QT Extended. You suggesting that it is otherwise indicates that you haven't read my emails properly / thoroughly. I'd suggest you do that. > Do you think someone is interested in your long and offensive mails * I'm not interested in whether people want to read my opinion of the software, or whether people take offense at it. What I am interested in is expressing my concerns including a description of the issues I'm seeing using the software. What I am *more* interested in is the developer trying to tell me that my problems are not actually problems, trying to pretend like his software is infallible and/or it's me at fault, when it is clearly and demonstrably the software which is at issue. > that have nearly zero information? * My emails contain quite a lot of information, much of it highly detailed. I'd suggest you read through them in their entirety with detachment, rather than allowing their tone to feed your emotions and provoke a kneejerk reaction. > Don't you like the keyboard? Send a patch. * Already addressed in my previous emails, try actually reading them to find out what I said about this. > If you have idea - write it down as short as it can be. Yep, I did that, and Lorn proceeded to tell me that this "was not a valid use case". Which is utter bullshit. > If the idea's good someone will pick it up. At least two people have replied agreeing with the issue, but not the developer of the software. If you'd read my emails properly you'd most likely also agree. > Otherwise please stop spamming this list with this offensive nonsence. 1. I'll stop when Lorn acknowledges that his software is not perfect, and apologises to me for effectively trying to tell me that the issues I and others have with the software do not matter, or are imaginary. 2. Re-read my emails, they contain no "nonsence", and neither do they contain any nonsense. I'd suggest you actually read them as a thread, and you'll find that I have legitimate concerns, which Lorn refuses to acknowledge. 3. If you have a problem with this thread, filter it out. I'd suggest actually reading it in entirety before you do so, though. 4. Please feel free to participate constructively to this thread ONCE YOU HAVE ACTUALLY READ MY EMAILS. Regards, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJviKOFbVnQRV3OEYRAiVtAKCvg8WW/Wg+yXX2I9ewtZ4redtDQQCdGfUa usbvnWT0N69yGXU0moQSBVw= =w82z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > How can we when you just rant on and on and on? It's easy: What you do is read the emails, and then address the concerns I raised. Things you shouldn't do include: Contradicting yourself, telling me about the virtues of features that don't work, and playing word-games with semantics while avoiding the actual issues. > What I told you was a way to work with the software, as it is. You > could have found that out yourself, it you would have read the help to > see how it works. It is not that complicated, but you must know how it > works to use it correctly. Like driving a car. Um, no. What you have told me is a) nothing I didn't already know b) inadequate to address the concerns I raised. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvjXdFbVnQRV3OEYRAjdwAJ9o6N49KUcH/x8sOMMIMsLXSMDPQwCbB6sL Zy6ko1OMupZCqNhBpEvaezQ= =u0x8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sarton, A *big* "Thank You" to you for actually bothering to take the time to read my emails in their entirety! > I too don't understand why some devs aren't willing to take a completely > presented and well constructed criticism, and admit that more could be done > (or redone). I don't think that anyone who has replied has understood that > prior to the use of colourful language, there was no acceptance of your > criticism or your opinion. Luckily, this is more a qte thing within the > OM world. All others have at least attempted to accomodate more useful > features, or ways of implementing additional features. > > In some ways I'm tempted to think there was or is intent there. But > that would be their prerogative I suppose, which then comes back to > what is actually disclosed. Yeah, it's very strange. In my opinion, there's only really one explanation: Incompetence. Not necessarily incompetence in software development, more a general failure at a human level. To be able to do that, you'd have to not really care about the software you've written. Personally, I want the guys who wrote all the software I use to put in the same kind of dedication as I do into my projects - when a user comes to me with really weird requirements, I see it as a challenge! I immediately say to myself "How can I accommodate that". This mentality of "that's not a problem" is ridiculous and as far as I'm concerned harmful. I've dealt with people who take the "that's not a problem" approach before, and I've seen their contracts come and go (and they *do* come and go - invariably they piss off their clients, and their contracts don't get renewed), and then I often get to redesign their projects with some sanity and care, and they work much better, and everyone is happy. Yeah, it actually occurred to me today to me that Trolltech seem to be doing their very best to get me to buy a Nokia... Strange, that... ;) A couple of days ago I was actually thinking Nokia. Now, I'll be getting a blackberry after today's little debacle, just in case. In fact, I might just point that out to somebody at Nokia's PR department: "Congratulations: an employee of one of your subsiduaries has just ensured that I will never purchase another Nokia, and that I'll tell all my friends to steer clear of Nokia products from now on." > Hah! you are my father! hehe ...besides him owning every incantation, > I think it's actually a telco thing, they like their blackberries. hahaha... and you know what? I work at a telco... but I don't remember ever having kids! I deny everything! ;) > I would buy a blackberry but: > 1). I couldn't tell my dad ever! > 2). I'm a gamer and love my toys. > > Actually, 3). I can't help spending money on things that might do more > than they are suppose to :) > > Some things turn out to do less, or other tasks entirely! ;) hehe, well in that case, I guess an iphone is probably your best bet. My major issue with the iphone is their app store crap, and then there's the non-removable battery. Plus it's Apple. I'm not really into mobile gaming (I play my games on a 2.5m Projector screen!), so that's not an issue for me. although right now I'd choose Apple over Nokia! > If nothing, I've been having a good ol' chuckle, prolly cause my phone > is dead, but it is good to see a passionate aussie on an open source > maillinglist :) Well I'm glad that *somebody* is reading my mails and actually getting them - facts, humor, vicious stabs, and all... Cheers, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvjyvFbVnQRV3OEYRAm4OAKCNI3czWr2u/KWaGI0VeuqqdSNlMQCgvx+8 e6dizZ+bWxnhTMt9Wsmf+Rc= =3H6k -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: "Nah, I'm not concerned with symantics, I'm all about software development. If it appears that in every single email I've sent this afternoon, I have dealt entirely with grammar, spelling, and choice of words, you're actually imagining it. Yep, that's the result of you hallucinating - I was actually talking software the whole time, and went over some really full-on technical issues. It was a productive afternoon. Anyone accusing me of focusing on the trivialities of the english language while somebody was attempting to engage me in a discussion of the software's shortcomings was also hallucinating. I'm not being evasive, I promise! Would I lie to you (more than 5 times in a single conversation)?" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvlJXFbVnQRV3OEYRAusqAJoCqx++MQdey7zeUfwai4lElQxB2ACeMALC WCFFWd/Izuw67RcMrQSfjvM= =W/P+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aah, the fun continues... > because just perhaps I have an insight in how one is supposed to > actually be using it. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the word "insight" is completely foreign to you. Wow, I have to give you credit - you certainly are good at completely ignoring damning evidence and not answering questions directly put to you multiple times. Ever considered a career in politics? You'd fit in really well there! How Long does it take to type your address on your freerunner, using the methods described...errr...three(?) emails ago? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... > The list of input methods was actually depreciated. What you are > seeing is that someone didn't have the time or inspiration to remove > that from the neo's theme. Translation from asshat to english: "The software is shit. We couldn't be bothered doing it properly, and our test plans and use cases, which we value more highly than actual real-world scenarios, are a joke. Oh, and I'm still going to ignore all your concerns and refuse to answer the questions you've posed." > correction: _you_ don't care what the software was designed to do. Again, you demonstrate your ignorance in a shining example of your inadequacy as a both a human being and a software developer. It's pretty obvious from this statement that you've never even bothered to speak with an end-user. Your "correction" is fundamentally flawed and incorrect, and my original statement remains valid. > No, I didn't say that. You really are a shifty motherfucker, I'll give you that. I just absolutely love the "oh, that's not what I said", without any explanation of what you actually *did* say, or addressing the concerns I raised. Brilliant. It's getting to be a recurring theme, though, what with you contradicting yourself in your previous email via the same mechanism. Maybe next time you should try something different, like... oh, I don't know... maybe... being honest? Addressing the issues I've raised? I know that's not "your style", but maybe you could try it, just for something completely different? > I can't believe you failed to read the help for the input method. > Actually I can. > In fact, I can even edit those misspellings, but I will leave that as > an endeavor for the reader. So basically what you're saying is that an intuitive interface is optional, not really desirable because you know how to use it, and really just too much effort... > [snip useless drivel] This "useless drivel" Lorn refers to is me demonstrating that Lorn is either lying or a complete retard. The fact that he refuses to even acknowledge this and attempted to trim it from all further correspondence indicates to me that it's malice, not stupidity. I'll restore this in the vain hope that perhaps he might address it, rather than ignore it as he has consistently done all afternoon: > > No one said to use the little qwerty keyboard with fingers. I BEG YOUR PARDON?!?!? Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: > >Then you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: > > You can even use this with big fingers and hit in between letters > > and it will still work (suggestively) well. Now, we were discussing the predictive keyboard, and you told me that I "could easily switch to the qwerty keyboard"... which qwerty keyboard were you referring to, exactly, if not the little qwerty keyboard? There are only two: the predictive keyboard and the qwerty keyboard. Unless you're trying to tell me that there's a difference between 'keyboard' and 'docked keyboard'. I call "bullshit". Lorn, you're either completely full of shit, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Due to the old adage "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity", I'll give you an opportunity to publicly apologise and explain exactly what the hell you're on about... >> the way it works, because IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING. > > It does. No, it doesn't. You're either a liar or a fucking retard. I lean towards "Liar". If you're a liar, you're *also* a fucking retard - when lying, the non-retard would come up with a *credible* lie, which you're not even bothering with... Or is it that you're just not clever enough? > You have absolutely no idea which parts of Qtopia I worked on, so you > cannot say I have done a bad job, when in fact, I had no contact with > this code. I didn't say "Bad", I said "shit", which is worse than bad. and, Yeah, I can: Watch me: "You've done a shit job." Regardless of any contact you may or may not have had with the code, or your contributions or lack thereof to qtopia, you have done a shit job. Firstly, where's the QTe release that was coming in December? why such inadequate communication
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johny Tenfinger wrote: > I don't know what would you say, if I'll tell you that I'm programming > on FreeRunner using qwerty keyboard and only with finger (for instance > in train - PM module in shr-settings is from train and was written > only with finger) ;) > Is this in SHR? If so, maybe it's worth trying out. Programming on FR with finger only = Impressive! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvlz4FbVnQRV3OEYRAtz2AJ9ClmBTMHS6IkwCzAKCKad7G+6Z4gCeIWFk CLZcl3BAf0bI0fw6O3b2mx4= =OSNs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johny Tenfinger wrote: > FSO has had PIM (opimd) since milestone5 (but disabled by default). > SHR will use it in nearly future. O RLY?!? :D Awesome! So there's progress being made on that front at least, that's great to hear! SHR is sounding more and more like it's worth checking out! And the developers actually read emails in their entirety! ;) Any Idea how soon "near future" might be? (I know, it's probably hard to answer, but even a rough guess would be great... days? weeks? months?). Thanks for chipping in! This thread has now actually provided me with some useful info! :) - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvmRVFbVnQRV3OEYRAu4ZAJ9DvaLYSnMsBASDmr4Q7KW0dsctGQCghPnL D5gkXXBZPxY3MJVCQDUe7DI= =1jKr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johny Tenfinger wrote: > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 15:06, Dale Maggee wrote: >> Is this in SHR? If so, maybe it's worth trying out. > > Yes, it's standard Illume keyboard. SHR is using that ;) aah, excellent - that keyboard works quite well once you force it to always use the terminal keyboard, as Bill suggested earlier in this thread. Yup, 'Trying out SHR' just got added to my list of things to do. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvmTgFbVnQRV3OEYRAi9BAJ0RVOfmln5WEe+hFAGVqp7qU47tygCfYITm DiptnRhM8dEjSuk1OdvWWYc= =XFej -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: >> Aah, the fun continues... > > [snip utter nonsense] "Utter nonsense", again, including questions which you persist in ignoring, and discussion of the issues with your shit software which you categorically refuse to discuss or even acknowledge exist. > http://www.netalert.gov.au/advice/behaviour/netiquette_emoticons/What_is_netiquette.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette So... you can copy and paste a web address, good for you! I guess, it *is* more than I would have expected from someone of your "special-ness". Were the people at the spastic society proud of you for accomplishing that? did they give you a gold star? You *really are* a fucking retard, you know that, don't you? from the netalert website that YOU LINKED TO: Examples of netiquette include: * responding appropriately to requests Congratulations, Lorn, you complete fucking idiot, you fucking liar, you absolute wanker - You've just demonstrated, once again, for the entire world's verification, that you're the stupidest motherfucker on it. I can't believe you would link to a page which confirms that you broke "netiquette" first, and that any response telling you that you're a fucking liar, or a fucking wanker, or a fucking retard is entirely justified and warranted. Actually, I can believe it - why stop contradicting yourself just because you look like a retard? I have links, too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_(usage) Given that you insist on ignoring the issues at hand: Wow, I have to give you credit - you certainly are good at completely ignoring damning evidence and not answering questions directly put to you multiple times. Ever considered a career in politics? You'd fit in really well there! How Long does it take to type your address on your freerunner, using the methods described...errr...three(?) emails ago? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... > > [snip useless drivel] This "useless drivel" Lorn refers to is me demonstrating that Lorn is either lying or a complete retard. The fact that he refuses to even acknowledge this and attempted to trim it from all further correspondence indicates to me that it's malice, not stupidity. I'll restore this in the vain hope that perhaps he might address it, rather than ignore it as he has consistently done all afternoon: >> > > No one said to use the little qwerty keyboard with fingers. I BEG YOUR PARDON?!?!? Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > >Then you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > > You can even use this with big fingers and hit in between letters >> > > and it will still work (suggestively) well. Now, we were discussing the predictive keyboard, and you told me that I "could easily switch to the qwerty keyboard"... which qwerty keyboard were you referring to, exactly, if not the little qwerty keyboard? There are only two: the predictive keyboard and the qwerty keyboard. Unless you're trying to tell me that there's a difference between 'keyboard' and 'docked keyboard'. I call "bullshit". Lorn, you're either completely full of shit, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Due to the old adage "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity", I'll give you an opportunity to publicly apologise and explain exactly what the hell you're on about... >> >> the way it works, because IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING. > > > > It does. No, it doesn't. You're either a liar or a fucking retard. I lean towards "Liar". If you're a liar, you're *also* a fucking retard - when lying, the non-retard would come up with a *credible* lie, which you're not even bothering with... Or is it that you're just not clever enough? > > You have absolutely no idea which parts of Qtopia I worked on, so you > > cannot say I have done a bad job, when in fact, I had no contact with > > this code. I didn't say "Bad", I said "shit", which is worse than bad. and, Yeah, I can: Watch me: "You've done a shit job." Regardless of any contact you may or may not have had with the code, or your contributions or lack thereof to qtopia, you have done a shit job. Firstly, where's the QTe release that was coming in December? why such i
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lorn Potter wrote: > [snip utter nonsense] > > and you have just demonstrated your maturity level. Go home, your > parents want to wash your mouth out with soap. Haha, says he who repeatedly and persistently refuses to discuss the issues! Wow, now you can *really* add "hypocrite" to the ever expanding list on your resume! I mean, sending me a link to nettiquette rules that you broke first was pretty damn hypocritical, but two entirely hypocritical emails in one day! So now the list that goes something along the lines of: * Highly skilled at evasive responses with no real content * Able to blatantly lie with a straight face * Actions are Not influenced by morality or human decency * Stupid enough to contradict self in public * Complete Hypocrite. No, really, I'm gonna write up a couple of letters of recommendation for you: I'm gonna email the head of Microsoft's HR on your behalf, and I'll also email the Liberal Party - I hear they're looking for a new leader, and you're certainly slippery, evasive, and deceitful enough. I'll post them here for all to see. Hopefully you'll get your dream job as 'chief bullshit artist' at MS. Although I think you're probably over-qualified. "I see your lips moving, but all I can hear is 'bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit'..." For the record, I'm not going anywhere, and long after I've got my blackberry and kicked your godawful software to the curb where it belongs, I'll still be replying to your every post on this list with "Lorn is a bullshit artist, be wary of believing anything he says. Here's a link to him contradicting himself." "Utter nonsense", again, including questions which you persist in ignoring, and discussion of the issues with your shit software which you categorically refuse to discuss or even acknowledge exist. Given that you insist on ignoring the issues at hand: Wow, I have to give you credit - you certainly are good at completely ignoring damning evidence and not answering questions directly put to you multiple times. Ever considered a career in politics? You'd fit in really well there! How Long does it take to type your address on your freerunner, using the methods described...errr...five(?) emails ago? and now, how long does it take on your PC? How long did it take you to type up my sample sms on your FR running QTe? and why did you do that "Many Times", as you claim? seems like wasted effort to me... >> > > [snip useless drivel] This "useless drivel" Lorn refers to is me demonstrating that Lorn is either lying or a complete retard. The fact that he refuses to even acknowledge this and attempted to trim it from all further correspondence indicates to me that it's malice, not stupidity. I'll restore this in the vain hope that perhaps he might address it, rather than ignore it as he has consistently done all afternoon: >> > > No one said to use the little qwerty keyboard with fingers. I BEG YOUR PARDON?!?!? Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > >Then you can easily switch to the qwerty keyboard. Lorn Potter wrote at 12:41pm: >> > > You can even use this with big fingers and hit in between letters >> > > and it will still work (suggestively) well. Now, we were discussing the predictive keyboard, and you told me that I "could easily switch to the qwerty keyboard"... which qwerty keyboard were you referring to, exactly, if not the little qwerty keyboard? There are only two: the predictive keyboard and the qwerty keyboard. Unless you're trying to tell me that there's a difference between 'keyboard' and 'docked keyboard'. I call "bullshit". Lorn, you're either completely full of shit, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Due to the old adage "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity", I'll give you an opportunity to publicly apologise and explain exactly what the hell you're on about... >> >> the way it works, because IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING. >> > > >> > > It does. No, it doesn't. You're either a liar or a fucking retard. I lean towards "Liar". If you're a liar, you're *also* a fucking retard - when lying, the non-retard would come up with a *credible* lie, which you're not even bothering with... Or is it that you're just not clever enough? >> > > You have absolutely no idea which parts of Qtopia I worked on, so you >> > > cannot say I have done a bad job, when in fact, I had no contact with >> > > this code. I didn't say "Bad", I said "shit", which is worse than bad. and, Yeah, I can: Watch me: "You've done a shit job." Regardless of any contact you may or may not have had with the code, or your contributions or lack thereof to qtopia, you have done a shit job. Firstly, where's the QTe release that was coming in December? why such inadequate communication? You've done a shit Job. Secondly, you've done an absolutely abysmal job today. Refusing to acknowledge or add
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'd suggest you filter out this conversation if you're not interested. This discussion *is* actually leading somewhere, though: Lorn is digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. wim.delv...@adaptiveplanet.com wrote: > Dale, lorn ... please, go take a cold shower and a few deep breaths to cool > down. > > This discussion isn't leading anywhere ... > > W -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJvxdmFbVnQRV3OEYRAu+uAKCmUHe6cNkv0VaH5VbFCwI0wg6jGwCgw7lY QkpWzFEFiwu2HxYZ7Fqk5BQ= =xWhZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Franky, As I said to others, If you don't want to read it, filter out this thread. Personal insults are completely valid and infact necessary when someone provokes me by lying to me and/or being an idiot. Personal attacks are appropriate and warranted in a public forum in this case, because Lorn is trying to spread mistruth in said public forum, and refuses to even discuss the issues, hence he should be shouted out of it. Which is what I'll be doing from now on - any message sent by Lorn to this mailing list from now on will receive a reply indicating that Lorn is a liar and not to be trusted, with links to evidence of him lying. Interestingly enough, this isn't the first time Lorn has been called out for publicly lying: http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/lovely-respond-to-lorn-potter-of.html Feel free to start with some personal attacks of your own now... ;) Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: > sorry, but this is way over the top ... personal insults don't belong to a > public mailing list. Please stop this, Dale. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwB9gFbVnQRV3OEYRAs3hAJ4uY1V97Tnpbsa4Krv9xf7W+af76wCfRKId haRfH8qsUi/F2KZVRdGxcTY= =/4v3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, personally, I'd recommend you do it by the email subject rather than sender - there's a chance I might say something useful to you in another conversation... ...Lorn won't, though, cuz he's a liar - filtering out by his email address is probably a wise move. Russell Steicke wrote: > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 04:15:53PM +0900, Russell Steicke wrote: >> :0 >> * ^From: (Dale Maggee|Lorn Potter) >> |/dev/null > > Oops... > > :0 > * ^From: (Dale Maggee|Lorn Potter) > /dev/null > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwCGMFbVnQRV3OEYRAiqFAKCRFVgxHxrWT9AUBObIw/dwCGhYSgCdG/tS owLgCWzX3rPJfB2qh4n9snA= =JoQT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: >> This discussion *is* actually leading somewhere, though: Lorn is >> digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. > > And I'm amazed he hasn't just given up and said something like "OK, > you're right but I'm not going to do anything about it". > If not only for appearances! To debates someone's opinion, especially > when you _know_ their position is firm, is just ludicrous and even more > so when the case put forward is completely valid. Yeah, it's kinda scary. If Lorn had simply acknowledged the issue as valid, this debate would have been over at least 24 hours and 100,000 words ago. Instead, He's managed to initiate a flame war. But then, I don't know if he knows that my position is valid, really - I don't think he's actually reading my emails. If he was, surely by now he would have just run the experiment I asked and reported the times... surely that's easier than consistently ignoring a question I have directly asked five times now... but no. As far as I'm concerned there are two possible reasons for this: He's either not really reading my emails, or he's trying to provoke me. If he's out to provoke me, then mission accomplished. This is not something I would choose to do from my work email address, though. > Besides contributing to a conversation no company in their right mind > would approve of. Yeah. Sending that kind of crap from his company address, and signing it with a company signature is really scary - is he providing Trolltech / Nokia's official position with regards to this? he is their official representative on this mailing list... Coincidentally enough, minutes after I finished typing up my complaint to Nokia yesterday, I saw a slashdot article come up on my RSS reader: "Nokia to slash 1700 jobs"... > Speaking of which, you mustn't work for Hutchison ... or you would have > run into plenty of Lorns by now :). Nope. I don't usually run into these guys that often, perhaps they hear me coming and scatter like the cockroaches they are. When I do run into them, I tend to just bulldoze over them by demonstrating their incompetence. Which is what it boils down to, really - - Lorn is obviously incompetent to do the job he's doing, or pretending to do. People like these don't deserve employment, certainly not in a technical field. As far as I'm concerned, Lorn isn't even qualified to serve me burgers at McDonalds - you need to provide a public face for that too. - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwCTCFbVnQRV3OEYRAu47AJ0VS+nuUqYcy1CJ+rb1uvhapXavfQCgrTgE cvWLYXY3HzhjGq78dFCCaag= =LRLl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtExtended] some things
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I also note that Lorn's been completely silent for the past 24 hours. I wonder if this is because he's (finally!) realised that he's been digging a hole for himself, or if it's just because he got pwned once again... Or perhaps he took my advice (yeah, right!) and spoke to his boss about it, and his boss said "ARE YOU *INSANE*?!?!? HOW COULD YOU POST THAT FROM YOUR TROLLTECH ADDRESS?!?!?!?!" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJwJeWFbVnQRV3OEYRAnd7AKChMds4wmfaBl9o1J3pBe+BOS5xfQCdGsF+ 7/VhnhkCcQS6BEi1ULF2kpY= =x3A1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: backing up rootfs fails - after 40m FreeRunner continues booting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, To backup your rootfs with NeoTool: * Make sure you have a working image on your Neo. By 'Working', I mean it should boot into the GUI, and networking should work - you should be able to ssh into your neo. NeoTool is supposed to be pretty much "idiot proof", so it should tell you if this isn't the case. * Boot your Neo all the way into the gui. (NeoTool's rootfs backup needs to use SSH, so your Neo should be completely booted, not at the boot menu) * Run NeoTool, choose backup, select 'Root Filesystem' when it prompts for what to backup, and choose 'Go!'. * you may be told that you don't have mkfs-jffs2 installed. If this happens, ssh into your neo and "opkg install mkfs-jffs2" * the backup will take a while (maybe 20-30mins?). If you chose the default backup method (jffs2), the file it produces will be flashable using dfu-util or NeoTool. HTH, - -Dale Bram Mertens wrote: > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Cameron Frazier > wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Bram Mertens >> wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Cameron Frazier >>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Bram Mertens wrote: Have you tried using NeoTool [1]? It's always worked quite well for me, and the backing up process avoids dfu-util. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool >>> I have tried to use it before when I initially went to pick up the >>> device but never succeeded, probably because we were using the wrong >>> files. >>> >>> And the instructions seemed clear enough to use the command line utility. >>> >>> The current problems/questions would have arisen with NeoTool anyway, >>> looks like I made a mistake when rebooting the device. >>> >>> So when you have flashed the U-Boot with NeoTool, how do you proceed? >>> Unplug it first, power down, then boot again or use the boot menu to >>> reboot? And did you boot the device normally or immediately into NOR >>> or NAND? >>> >>> The display still shows the openmoko logo, guess I'll have to hard >>> reset it though I hope that won't break anything... >> >> I've always just: >> >> - flashed >> - powered down, which the FR seems to do on it's own once u-boot times out >> - unplug the usb, as I've found that leaving it in will cause hangs >> similar to what your seeing >> (oddly I don't have this issue with the AC adapter) >> - turn on pre normal procedure (power button for 8-10 sec) >> >> I use NeoTool most times since I like the backup method (having had >> numerous problems with dfu-util backups) and it helps to ensure I'm >> not throwing improper commands when I flash. I have little faith in >> the user on my end. > > Thanks, > > I pulled the battery and booted into NOR, it still shows: > U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (May 09 2008 - 10:28:48) > select reboot from menu - FDOM boots. > Shut down device to NAND boot menu. > NAND boot menu shows: pr 19 2009 - > 19:10:05)520a22715fe7ff069b36b7dfdbb925a8e5a (A > > So it looks like NAND U-Boot was updated but NOR hasn't. However > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Backup#Backing-up_flash_images > specifically states that you need to be in NOR U-Boot before > flashing/backing up. > > After reading http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_NOR I get the > impression that flashing NOR is not really recommended compared to > flashing NAND. > > I'll try with NeoTool since even with the new U-Boot a backup fails > after 38minutes (while booted to NAND). > > Regards > > Bram > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ7YWDFbVnQRV3OEYRAhkjAKCbv651TqaoSJ9Jzy0z8T+hG8azqwCeO/P7 2M1cwNT9rbkdSqn2JZ46xY0= =20rP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko newbie questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > I have a few questions on OpenMoko phones. I am planning to buy one. > 1. Which is the default OS that comes in OpenMoko: OM 2007 ? 2007.2 > 2. Do you use the default OS or have you flashed soe other OS of your own? Well, 2007.2, despite being the most stable thing Openmoko has delivered, is unsupported and quite buggy - seems that stability wasn't something that they were aiming for. So nobody uses it anymore. > 3. Which OS is known for booting faster than others. I use Debian on > my laptop and I would want to know how good Debian is for Freerunner? > Does it boot fast enough? Fast? Openmoko? I think you have this device confused with one that doesn't suck big fat hairy donkey balls. > 4. Is multi-touch in neo freerunner not availabe because the hardware > doesn't support it or is it because the software doesn't support it? The hardware doesn't support it. Or much of anything for that matter. > 5. In the OpenMoko Neo Freerunner order page I have two options relevant to > me. > > Now, I don't know which one I should be going for. I am from India > and we use GSM sim cards here. I use Vodafone SIM card. So which is > the one I should be buying? You should go for one that doesn't involve giving Openmoko your money. For example, I just bought a blackberry, and it's great! If you buy an Openmoko device, you're buying dead hardware with godawful software from a dishonest company. Avoid. Regards, - - A Happy User. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ8O0wFbVnQRV3OEYRAterAJ9FvpauMcVRou1l3F4HU6GZzcsvZgCeIQpt aeA6YC9rZfrAoTNi8l/2Du4= =nRbx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: letter of recomendation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Jimerson wrote: > On Thursday 23 April 2009 03:42:52 am Ali wrote: >> On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 10:29 +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: >> ... >> >>> Hmm.. suppose this was not planned to be posted to community mailing >>> list..? >>> >>> r >> Did you stop to think that maybe this was a coded message for >> terrorists? Just sayin. >> > > No according to this > http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html > they use Quake for that XD > *PLEASE* Tell me that article is a joke... Please? It's absolutely hilarious... *IF* it's a joke... if it's not a joke, it's absolutely terrifying... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ8O+tFbVnQRV3OEYRAuWiAJ43WMPfY3mWk32bVPF5NuXtECKKcgCfZuda Y63ePJjK+Rg2Kop1TnvmL08= =mP43 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: backing up rootfs fails - after 40m FreeRunner continues booting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > Huh, neotool avoids dfu-util? > less +"/dfu-util" `which NeoTool` > > /j > neotool's *rootfs backup* avoids dfu-util. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ8ziWFbVnQRV3OEYRAr1hAJ9DeIsEqCQGHUpgKbKZG4TzT8aX+gCfSR7F drlCo8fKJI6jogLP6hlsON8= =qe7K -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko and LCD TV
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ...An OM Device which doesn't comply with EMI Standards? :O hands up if you're suprised. Sam Kuper wrote: > 2009/5/5 Marcel > >> Am Dienstag, 5. Mai 2009 18:38:42 schrieb Mile Davidovic: >>> Yesterday I accidentally put my OM phone near LCD TV (Samsung). >>> >>> SW on OM is QT Extended and when I press power button (to wake up >>> mobile) TV immediately turn off. >>> >>> I tried again and TV changed channel. So, on my phone this behavioure >>> is repeatable. >> If the neo had an infrared led I'd have guessed it sends some random >> signal, but since it does not... Voodoo... °_° >> Seriously: Electromagnetic fields? GSM? I really have to try that with my >> TV... > > > There are various standards that define the kinds/amount of EMI that an > electrical device must: (1) be able to cope with, and/or (2) not produce in > excess of. > > It sounds like either your OM or your TV might not be fully compliant. > > Sam > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAUDuFbVnQRV3OEYRAlwIAJ41CxHJ6C2rPAtcQ4IjoS6k7UyCUQCgqnPg vihdyOM/k+yFp6s7PmyFTYE= =Wf+N -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: > The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the > summer?) My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in the microwave. > OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the > list about it. > New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. > To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of "Neo as Swine Flu", that is). I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come along and do it for them. At which point they could say "we don't need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y"... I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to produce working software? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAUW/FbVnQRV3OEYRAq9RAJ9rObFB6hKp2V149Nh77rZdtZD34gCfRDAd klJyMizgksoWzba1EEJ6MKU= =R3Vr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hehe, what gave you that idea? ;) Yogiz wrote: > Bitter much? : ) > > On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:09:35 +1000 > Dale Maggee wrote: > > Risto H. Kurppa wrote: >>>> The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the >>>> summer?) > My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their > $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in > the microwave. > >>>> OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on >>>> the list about it. >>>> New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 >>>> mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze >>>> than OM2009. > Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know > what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like > swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of "Neo as > Swine Flu", that is). > > I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* > produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come > along and do it for them. At which point they could say "we don't > need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y"... > > I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have > your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die > out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese > company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the > consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are > technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to > produce working software? > > >> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAfK5FbVnQRV3OEYRAjygAJ0UDxAbT6Z3s/szm7mUPVBbVLIFWgCcDk0c 4MNuXjjU5vX0HgUT4+1hD5M= =z4n9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: >> Bitter much? : ) > > nope. he's just a troll. > Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. Once I got it and said "WTF This doesn't work as a phone!" I was told by OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. So I waited. Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would eventually get a working phone. I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA3cVFbVnQRV3OEYRArmhAJsHt3UILhaN/1Rjt30yL8+0jtOUPwCdHLMV gIMfLw0JvJV+o4sZQD9DYrY= =nJ+d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. Seriously... You may not have heard of it, but There's a concept that's been around for a while called "Free speech"... you know, as opposed to "free beer". "Goebbels was in favour of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favour of free speech, then you're in favour of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favour of free speech." - Noam Chomsky I am contributing - contributing to Free Speech, and I'm doing my part to warn prospective customers against giving their money to thieves. If you're not in favour of free speech then I have two words for you: "Email filter". But I'm not going anywhere. (Note: I know there are quite a few deutschlanders on this list, and my use of your language is not intended in any way as a slight against your people or country. On the contrary, I think that you're among the most beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) jeremy jozwik wrote: > seriously... go write the prime minister or something. if your not > going to contribute your just wasting everyone else's time > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dale Maggee wrote: > arne anka wrote: >>>>> Bitter much? : ) >>>> nope. he's just a troll. >>>> > Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. > > Once I got it and said "WTF This doesn't work as a phone!" I was told by > OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. > > It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. > So I waited. > > Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a > bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. > > When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long > since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I > waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would > eventually get a working phone. > > > I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were > legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to > demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it > would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were > required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based > overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. > > In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws > they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing > to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. > > Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if > you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so > have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around > pretending that being raped is all fun and games. > >> ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA4YGFbVnQRV3OEYRAk0JAKDEiDmdGUttRB9r++kN4fKL9zj6SQCgmDYR b1k8k42/YLwS2kBxx9dl778= =6xJM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: >> Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. >> ... >> beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects >> that... :) ) > > wow. > insulting and slimy at once! > I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a calm and rational manner. If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your people, culture, and country. If you think that my being honest is being "insulting and slimy", then whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my posts, your mind closes, and you say "troll" like a reflex. And that's sad. If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it would want to be short and effective. Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCjkFbVnQRV3OEYRAqcBAJ9ClvhkIToyaGGXApiNrfsWA8kotACdHsVA WsQyQnqXKZj/1XIbpVHSEQA= =PtQt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) >>> nope. he's just a troll. >>> >> Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. > > dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. Sources? I don't think it has been ten. and I've certainly not said *all* this before. > you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. I don't remember ever saying that. I may have said that I was *thinking* about it. Again, please cite sources. > you don't write anything productive on this list. It's productive for people who might be thinking of buying a FR. > why don't you just shut up? Why don't you just set up an email filter? > unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute > to either community or development. > the only thing you do on this list is trolling. See my previous email - I've already addressed these assertions. come up with something new. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCn1FbVnQRV3OEYRAsf4AKCKRi/kEoB1qLv7LajMmWSl3KFphQCggCrp vCSUVbcKfznA2h0MuTUeQzo= =5YVO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thank you very much for a rational contribution to this thread, Franky. Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM, arne anka wrote: > Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. >>> Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. >> dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. >> you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. >> you don't write anything productive on this list. >> >> why don't you just shut up? >> unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute >> to either community or development. >> the only thing you do on this list is trolling. > > Hmmm ... I do contribute and I do use my freerunner (sometimes, mostly > for testing only). So I want to react for once as well: > > You see, in the end, Dale's not that wrong: a year after I bought the > phone, I would at least expect a stable simple phone (I couldn't care > less about the extras), but as a company, Openmoko didn't provide > this. Therefore community releases were born, but they shouldn't be > necessary, only additional (or as an alternative). In the freerunner > case, only the community provides software for the phone. > A year later, I have to admit, I sometimes think about selling my > phone as well. I'm still using my old phone as stable phone, simply > because I don't want to recharge each day or reboot my phone every now > and then because unsuspend fails again, or wsod, or risk having my > phone not waking up on incoming calls, etc ... > QtExtendedImproved is as close as it gets for me ... Koolu promised > many times a stable android release, but there also: no release, > months after original promise (I mean, really: low priority for the > "feature" 'entering your sim PIN' ???). > Sometimes people have to face the facts as well. I *love* opensource, > I don't even own a windows pc, look up my name in google if you want > proof. I've worked hard for this phone in the last months, but is it > really worth it? What will I do if the phone breaks? Dunno yet ... > Every project, even an open project, totally in the opensource hands, > can fail ... > > Franky > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCp/FbVnQRV3OEYRAr2JAJ9Rkkm/6ojk5VkK7Gg7HtJYRfWFGgCfS9Hi GFo/0xu5j+bJEM/Mcuh9JLU= =eL2H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: > so, how is a globally true statement of "fit to be used as ..." > possible? > it might be true for _you_, but it isn't for _me_ -- so please, always be > aware that those statemants express only _your_ point of view, not an > objective truth. According to Australian Laws, the customer's point of view is what matters. That's me. Hence they're breaching Australian consumer protection Laws by refusing to refund my money. I invite you to read the following for a good explanation of the Australian Laws, if you'd like more specific info: http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Publications_Business_Information/$file/A4%20Refund%20Law%20Brochure.pdf#xml=http://search.justice.vic.gov.au/isysquery/irl5ab6/3/hilite If you think that my bringing the truth out into the open, or that my attempting to stand up for my rights is "trolling", then I think that your opinions are very strange, given that the Open Source philosophy is really all about freedom, equality, and rights. I would once again Invite you to set up an email filter :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBC6xFbVnQRV3OEYRAlatAJ4jR20i62eguCHDZC5gWHtxprr4bgCglOwM ST3e9Sh0BPNwtnxiLU7DmvM= =UDzH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Steve, I appreciate your replying to this thread. I would however point out that I believe that you should have already been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after the "---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD---" Line. You were cc'd in two of these emails (the ones saying "I've had no reply"). I eventually got a response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped sending emails to you. As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able to find all the info you need at https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words "thieves" and "defrauded"), and that you may therefore want to keep this public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no problem with that either - up to you. Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of accept that I had "been screwed", and I have since bought another phone. Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a reliable phone. (That's my whole point, by the way: That it's not a usable phone, even after a year of waiting, and I bought it because I wanted a working open source phone, and I was told that the FR would meet that requirement). I would therefore perhaps be open to accepting a partial refund and keeping the device as a PDA-sized linux device (The AU Laws allow for that), even if I never use it. But I think that if this were to happen I would maybe not feel cheated anymore and could possibly once again enjoy participating constructively in the community. I Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, - -Dale - ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FreeRunner]] Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:19:34 +1100 From: Dale Maggee To: cont...@openmoko.com, s...@openmoko.com, st...@openmoko.com Having received absolutely no response whatsoever after more than a week, even after opening a refund ticker in trac (#36), I resend my email once again... - Original Message Subject: [Fwd: FreeRunner] Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:25:12 +1100 From: Dale Maggee To: cont...@openmoko.com CC: s...@openmoko.com, mic...@openmoko.org, st...@openmoko.com Having received no response whatsoever to my previous email, I'll send it again, and add a few more addresses. Hopefully I'll get a reply this time. Please see below. Regards, - -Dale - Original Message Subject: FreeRunner Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:35:41 +1100 From: Dale Maggee To: cont...@openmoko.com Hi, Please advise what is the process for getting my money back for my Neo Freerunner. Before I purchased this device almost a year ago, I was told that it could reliably make and recieve phone calls, as per Steve's email below. This is not, nor has it ever been the case - The device has *never* reliably made or recieved phone calls, it's overall stability is completely sub-par, and the ASU software stack mentioned turned out to be even less reliable and also slower than the original 2007.2 software stack. I have listened to Openmoko's promises regarding solving the issues, and these promises have not been met, repeatedly. In addition to this, as far as I can see, Openmoko's emphasis does not appear to be on stability or being able to use the device reliably as a phone, you seem to be more interested in building new frameworks from the ground up than actually making the device do what I bought it to do. While I'll agree that FSO may *one day* provide a usefull framework, it is presently far away from this goal (*still* no PIM!). In addition, "a working phone that could be used as an everyday phone" has a suspend mode, will happily go for more than 4-6 hours without being attached to a battery charger, and will actually wake
It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 03:34:40PM +0200, Marcel wrote: >> I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such > > I call for the rule of Godwin's Law! > > Rui > I had never heard of Godwin's Law until now! :O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law I was sitting here puzzling over Marcel's comment, which I didn't understand: "using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there." This had me confused - I knew exactly what I meant! "Totalitarian". I was trying to figure out what he was saying, and/or politely say "I don't understand what you mean"... then I read this: "I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust" and I said to myself: "Oh, shit..." I have been very ignorant, and now realise that I have said something very inappropriate. And I humbly and sincerely apologise for that. I feel pretty bad about this, especially the part where I couldn't figure out what Marcel was trying to say. Now I understand. and I feel like a complete dick. Sorry. Generally when I hear the word "nazi" used, it means "totalitarian", not "monster" or "mass murderer" - think of the "soup nazi" in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. The wiki page also says: when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, "you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles." Oh Noes, not crocodiles! The wiki page fails to mention any possible exclusion from this horrible fate for cases of extreme ignorance followed by sincere repentance... is there any such exclusion, or are the crocs already gnawing at my stupid ass? Seriously, please accept my apologies for this. I have learned something today. Thank you for enlightening me. - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBFn/FbVnQRV3OEYRAtZKAKCUMaK3h6/h3h+9ky/xHoObRg5RJQCcClmG uI+eJe3qxhgy3sHyt/L5JkU= =dl+v -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marcel wrote: > Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 14:43:16 schrieb Dale Maggee: >> arne anka wrote: >>>> Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. >>>> ... >>>> beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country >>>> reflects that... :) ) >>> wow. >>> insulting and slimy at once! >> I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a >> calm and rational manner. >> >> If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I >> was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying >> that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's >> unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very >> effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your >> people, culture, and country. >> >> If you think that my being honest is being "insulting and slimy", then >> whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a >> deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that >> indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not >> thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my >> posts, your mind closes, and you say "troll" like a reflex. And that's >> sad. >> >> If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have >> expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note >> however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, >> so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it >> would want to be short and effective. >> >> Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you >> could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable >> to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires >> rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. > > Dale, > > I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such > an affair is completely inappropriate. You may like our country as much as > you want, still using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you > really know what you're referencing there. There are WAY better examples > for freedom of speech. This is no more rationale than you may think the > other's contributions to be. > > Yours sincerely, > > Marcel > Marcel, > I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?) You shouldn't be. I was wrong, and said something inappropriate through ignorance. Contradicting me is perfectly fine when I'm wrong - I'll learn from it! :) > using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you > really know what you're referencing there. Exactly. I had no Idea. I had meant one thing, and completely failed to realise that I was also implying something far, far worse. Please accept my apologies. I would also ask you to read my response to Rui's message. Kind Regards, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBF4MFbVnQRV3OEYRAqrSAKCaC51cep8DVrh+GdDndgnVbJHiIACgtXiD iUHCezfGlmimfbP70xMuMkM= =iyY7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Get your facts straight... > he doesn't use an fr No, I don't use one, but I own one. That's the whole problem: I had to buy another phone, just to have a phone. > and he does in no way contribute http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool > -- what do you call > someone who lurks on a list he is in no way affiliated to Dunno. But that doesn't describe me. > and posts repeatedly meanings consisting of only "your point of interest is > crap, > everything you are talking about is crap and if you don't share my point > of view you are idiots and nazis"? This is what Christoph is talking about with his scientology reference - my emails are saying things that are not favorable to OM, and you therefore dismiss them without even really reading them. My emails contain significant points which you have entirely failed to address. Instead you focus on my tone, call me a troll, and tell me to shut up and go away. To me it sounds like you're not interested in freedom of speech. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBHogFbVnQRV3OEYRAna3AJ0VQW4hncP6W31XJg7N+wDGOmIKlwCeOh+L wDixe2oUe1ALeokWfyzK85I= =KHzR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christoph Pulster wrote: > IMO most misunderstandings happen because marketing of the Freerunner > was focused on "mobile phone". So customers expect a mobile phone to use > as a mobile phone. However Freerunner is a multi-purpose developement > plattform with GSM functionality among many other functionalities. Exactly. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBHrGFbVnQRV3OEYRAu3WAJ44Rmh+zoBielVKEkBWkzgQEuZ2NwCdHfSg /zHYEEJ6KHRatvcK4q0EzbU= =J9CR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Shawn Rutledge wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee wrote: >> Generally when I hear the word "nazi" used, it means "totalitarian", not >> "monster" or "mass murderer" - think of the "soup nazi" in Seinfeld. >> That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. > > That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't > it. > Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick once I had this pointed out to me. Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find myself a new metaphor for "totalitarian"... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBRyUFbVnQRV3OEYRAqlIAKCCPMZT4yqyPLA4nRz5lp+BJ+smtACdE/dy DgRCwUfSfUNgqz5EFt9o1mk= =eS2W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 For the Conspiracy Theorists out there: Steve and I are discussing this off-list. For everybody else: This list will now be free of my vitriol while Steve and I talk. Enjoy. Steve Mosher wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I appreciate your replying to this thread. > > I would however point out that I believe that you should have already > been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: > I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and > received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after > the "---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD---" Line. You were cc'd in two of these > emails (the ones saying "I've had no reply"). I eventually got a > response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped > sending emails to you. > >> Dale, as you can well imagine since I receive mail every single time a >> FR is ordered, >> since I receive mail every time we get a request for a return, since I >> receive mail from >> the community list and the developer list and since I received mail >> from cont...@openmoko >> univers...@openmoko.. oh heck every public mail we have plus I have my >> email on every >> press release, you can well imagine that I might have forgotten your >> name. But I didn't. >> Two people handled the RMAs on product purchased from OM store. And >> with Tony on the >> job I just assumed it would handled. I've been informed that we dont >> have a record a record >> of you purchasing the phone from us. That probably explains why Tony >> could not process >> the return. > As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a > refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able > to find all the info you need at > https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 > >> Yes. As I stated above we have no record of you purchaing the phone at >> our store: openmoko.com >> If you purchased it elsewhere please let me know. All of the guys here >> who have dealt with me will >> tell you that I'm a fair and reasonable person. > I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be > more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have > created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words > "thieves" and "defrauded"), and that you may therefore want to keep this > public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and > prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back > here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That > might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with > what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between > you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no > problem with that either - up to you. > >> Makes no difference to me. If I handled this privately I'm sure some >> lunatic down the road >> who slam me for taking it private and launch into yact, yet another >> conspiracy theory. >> You put your return request into the RMA process for the Openmoko >> store. For >> that process to work we have to be able to find you in the database. >> So, if you could >> verify that you did in fact purchase the phone from that store ( the sn >> and imei would >> help) Then I can do two things: >> 1. Figure out how the heck the system didnt capture your information >> 2. Process your return. > >> WRT your language. If I took offense, then I'd be a thief. ( that's a >> joke.. took a fence) >> Seriously, I'm no person to lecture people about having a colorful way >> of expressing >> anger. I'll just say that some weapons have more collateral damage then >> others. And >> sometimes you can frag yourself, intentionally or otherwise, if you >> don't get clear of the blast zone. > Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of > accept that I had "been screwed", and I have since bought another phone. > Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as > a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to > use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because > so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit > that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a > reliable phone. > >> I'll ch
Re: [All] .sid file properties
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I've tried many times over many years to do this, and I've never managed to do so to my satisfaction. I did once (years ago) find a non-free (as in closed source _and_ cost $20) Sid to midi converter, but I never bought it and haven't been able to find it since My understanding is that sids don't actually contain any tracking info as such, they contain machine code for the sid chip - it's more accurate technically to say that sids and sid players are not so much a music format as an emulation format for a sound chip. But if you manage to find anything interesting, I'd appreciate hearing about it! Regards, - -Dale Cameron Frazier wrote: > After wading through the noise unsuccessfully on google, could anyone > point me towards some means of getting the track information from a > .sid file? > > Kind regards, > > Cameron 'Toaster`' Frazier > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKCGdZFbVnQRV3OEYRAuZbAJ4jYZIZA0PElNLvvop3z/CkY8LLRgCggXhX yTJ7Elr7gbcaSwp37I+yRkM= =pogN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
