On 6/8/07, Silva, Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The problem with evas as i see it, is the available developer pool.
GTK as of now is more mature and has many more knowledged developers
available.
If you mean developer with real knowledge of the platform, even GTK
doesn't have much, and thos
On 6/8/07, Pedro Aguilar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
Sorry being that late to reply.
We should try different options, do some serious benchmarks and based on
the results we could choose the best solution.
Some options would be:
- X11/GTK
- X11/EFL
- DirectFB/GTK
- DirectFB/EFL
Both, GTK
Following the "there's much more than GFX effects in a usable UI", here's an
interesting blog post:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000883.html
It's not about embedded devices GUI, rather about desktop apps vs. web apps.
However, mutatis mutandis, it drives another nail in the same cof
TED]>
> To: "ThomasGstädtner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: ; "Florent THIERY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:56 PM
> Subject: Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as
> iPhone?
>
> > Hi,
> >
&
" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ; "Florent THIERY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as
iPhone?
Hi,
We should try different options, do some serious benchmarks and based on
the results we co
Hi,
We should try different options, do some serious benchmarks and based on
the results we could choose the best solution.
Some options would be:
- X11/GTK
- X11/EFL
- DirectFB/GTK
- DirectFB/EFL
Both, GTK and EFL, have backends for X11 and DirectFB, so running demos
and apps shouldn't be a pro
Imho the EFL are the best choise for a device like the Neo.
But, which backend for evas ? Framebuffer ? X ? OpenGL (i don't think
there's an evas Opengl ES implementation..) ?
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>If someone really wanted to keep things lightweight, you could even do a
>curses based interface as an option. 31337 HaXoRs and their console
>based phones.
Keen. I bet you could sell _dozens_ of those.
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Imho the EFL are the best choise for a device like the Neo.
I'm really looking forward to have a EFL-based gui as alternative to the
GTK-gui.
2007/6/8, Florent THIERY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Related tutorial :
http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB_for_Embedded_Systems
Related tutorial :
http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB_for_Embedded_Systems
The choice should be driven by benchmarks results. EFLs are on the row too...
Cheers
Florent
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What I see is a situation very similar to the WinG (Windows Game)
libraries
in the Windows 95 timeframe. These allowed a Windows app to take over the
entire screen and bypass GDI--even to the point of changing screen res and
refresh rates. Then, when you Alt-Tab'd away, or some other reason
re
AM
> To: John Seghers
> Subject: Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as
> iPhone?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Seghers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'OpenMoko'"
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:05
estions or can we animate things as smooth as
iPhone?
- Original Message -
From: "John Seghers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'OpenMoko'"
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as
iPhone
to, 2007-06-07 kello 12:19 -0600, Knight Walker kirjoitti:
> And you'd be 100% wrong in at least a few occasions. X11 applications
> aren't just for running desktop apps on the Moko. They can also be for
> running Moko apps on the desktop.
Well put there, hadn't even considered that. I'm not qui
> I've been lurking, but this is something that I do have a bit of
> experience
> with--and definitely some opinions.
>
> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote
>> Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
>> > framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick
>> > framebuffer operations? GameBoy provided nice full-scr
On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 01:23 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> ... GameBoy provided nice full-screen animations
> > in 1989, eighteen years ago.
This is nothing like the GameBoy, or the C64, or the Amiga. The GB was a
single-tasking system that would always only be doing one thing at a
time.
to, 2007-06-07 kello 09:05 -0700, John Seghers kirjoitti:
> I've been writing games since 1981, on Atari 5200, 8-bit NES, SFX, Genesis,
> Windows, and too many cell phones to keep track of. Please, please, please
> give us direct access to the frame buffer and a low level API to the Blitter
> in th
I've been lurking, but this is something that I do have a bit of experience
with--and definitely some opinions.
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote
> Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
> > framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick
> > framebuffer operations? GameBoy provided nice full-screen animatio
On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 08:19 -0700, David Schlesinger wrote:
> >If someone really wanted to keep things lightweight, you could even
> do a
> >curses based interface as an option. 31337 HaXoRs and their console
> >based phones.
>
> Keen. I bet you could sell _dozens_ of those.
>
My dad will buy o
You *could* do what many existing linux apps do... write the functional
part of the app as a console program, and then use many simple GUIs as
options to interface with it. Think about cdrecord and K3b as an example.
For the handful of us out there that intend to use the Neo as a remote
administrat
I think you should... fork.
One group for GTK and other for something else.
:)
2007/6/7, Florent THIERY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I would say, considering the fact that the apps ecosystem hasn't
"flourished" yet, is it really too late to switch? In the rest of this
mail, please assume it is not.
> H
On to, 2007-06-07 at 01:23 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
> > I'm 100% sure nobody will cry after pure-X11 applications we loose
> > this way. Almost every GTK application would require rewriting/porting
> > to fit OpenMoko capabilities, so it's not great loss too. N
I would say, considering the fact that the apps ecosystem hasn't
"flourished" yet, is it really too late to switch? In the rest of this
mail, please assume it is not.
How detached is the underlying processes/functions and GUI from each
other? How difficult will it be to just pull a different GU
On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 11:29 +0200, Fabien wrote:
>
>
> On 6/7/07, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
> > If with GTK/Matchbox we cannot achieve such rich, fluid and,
> erm...,
> > fluid GUI as iPhone, maybe it's not too lat
p.
Br
Michele
-Messaggio originale-
Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Luit van
Drongelen
Inviato: giovedì 7 giugno 2007 9.54
A: OpenMoko
Oggetto: Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as
iPhone?
Openmoko has 2 goals, right? One is to make a FOS
On 6/7/07, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
> If with GTK/Matchbox we cannot achieve such rich, fluid and, erm...,
> fluid GUI as iPhone, maybe it's not too late to drop GTK and choose
> other framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick
> fra
Openmoko has 2 goals, right? One is to make a FOSS stack for mobile
phones, and two is to make 'your parents' want it. For that last bit,
you might need to have a consistent, but also clear and fluid (direct
reaction to touch actions for example, click delay is really confusing
for people).
The d
Interesting. Can I hear more supportive or counter arguments?
What do the others think?
Depends on the technical bottleneck, which i am in no position to
determine. Is GDK inherently unsufficient too ?
I am very curious about the potential of the webkit gdk & qt ports, i
hope to benchmark them
Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
> If with GTK/Matchbox we cannot achieve such rich, fluid and, erm...,
> fluid GUI as iPhone, maybe it's not too late to drop GTK and choose
> other framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick
> framebuffer operations? GameBoy provided nice full-screen animation
As I understand it the new GTK mobile initiative will really be focusing on
performance on mobiles. I don't think the software is there yet, or the all
of the hard ware. Personally I'm not too concerned with the speed of the
GUI... yet.
That and it sounds like the next hardware revision will be
On ke, 2007-06-06 at 14:52 +0200, Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
> As we know, much less powered machines (like 7MHz Amiga with Workbench
> and even 1MHz C64 with Geos) had enough resources to provide rich and
> usable user interface. I mentioned PalmOS some time ago - it executed
> programs in-place so m
Hi,
An alternative could be DirectFB, it was designed specifically for
embedded systems, there is no overhead with any protocol or other things.
GDK has a DirectFB backend, so there is no problem running GTK+ apps over it.
It isn't easy to say how much the perfomance could improve, but it could
Hello,
I am not sure if it is a graphical framework problem after seeing how
smooth Canola[1] is in a Nokia 770 device:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV-HtJcIW-I
best regards,
[1] http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/
2007/6/6, Tomasz Zielinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
2007/6/6, Fabien <[EMAIL PR
2007/6/6, Fabien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
And I think openmoko can lead to real improvements in this domain, if:
[...]
- some people with the right social skills make the UI improvement effort
run smoothly.
iPhone is fascinating because it's GUI is so responsive and so smooth.
Unfortunately, cu
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