Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[hkariuki]

Wafa,
Thank you for the below education package.
 As a new AFRINIC fellow, I am finding it helpful in understanding 
policy issues and will hopefully join in the conversation 
constructively.

Regards,
Hellen,
Vice President, ISOC Kenyan Chapter.

On 2019-07-02 12:30 PM, wafa DAHMANI wrote:

Hi

It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala,
were given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number
Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg

The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants
interventions on the proposals.

The education package so proposed intends to condition these
participants views on the proposals  and their contributions at the
PPM and after

I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to
participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is
behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the
context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really
matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is
more important  than of agreement.  Also PDP is not a matter of
volume, repetition or persistence.

 RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough
consensus  process.

 Section 6

One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
consensus.

Section 7

Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough
consensus

My African fellows,

Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is
legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful
to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going
on and what Africa needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now
able to speak on your personal  capacity..

The real education package  is as below:

=

Proposal to establish AFRINIC

http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997

IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)

https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

AFRINIC constitution

https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

Registration Service  Agreement

https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

AFRINIC policy manual

https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM

https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

AFRINIC PDP

https://www.afrinic.net/policy

Rough Consensus

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

AFRINIC current policy proposals

https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

RiRs PDPs

https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

RIR comparative  policy overview

https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/

==

Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

Come build African Internet by Africans.

As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,
afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4
is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the
fellows would find these discussions in the archives.

I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of this
resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions...  the
provisions of the bylaws and RSA must  carefully be applied to recall
members to acceptable code of conduct.

The African Internet community as well as the global Internet
community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy
development process and operations.

-Wafa
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Arthur Carindal]

Dear Mr Jehovahseun,

We hope you are doing well. 

Following some statements  you made in the trail of emails exchanged below, 
kindly allow us to bring a clarification on these matters. 


> Third, you did not include that fact that  some of the mentors appointed by 
> AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the  fellows to push their 
> polices and agenda.


If you are referring to  Mr Elitcha Komi, please note that this latter  was  an 
AFRINIC fellow in 2015. During his fellowship and thereafter, Mr Elitcha Komi, 
enriched of his experience at AFRINIC Public meeting, has been involved in the 
PDP (Policy Discussion Process) and had been a co-author of the IPv4 Resources 
transfer within the AFRINIC Region, which was adopted by the community and 
being implemented. 

As such, AFRINIC considers this achievement as an example of fruitful AFRINIC’s 
engagement with its community  and that is reason Mr Elitcha  was appointed 
returning fellow in 2017 to share his experience with new AFRINIC Fellows.


> Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows via the whataps group 
> were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the PDP chair. 

There is  Whatsapp group for new and Returning Fellows  group where they 
exchange their experiences and opinions on any matter they find relevant.  
Under no circumstances  AFRINIC  gave instruction to vote for any candidate or 
support any policy. Keeping our position of neutrality, we, however, encourage 
fellows, be they returning or new, to be active and always be constructive on 
the community discussion mailing lists.


> AFRINIC fellows were used  by some to achieve thier aim.

We are not aware of such situations. We will be grateful if you can share more 
information and evidences so we will take appropriate actions to address same. 


> There is a serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in 
> appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided 
> access to the candidates for the PDP chair  under guise of being an ex 
> fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about 
> WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day.


Please find below the criteria being used by AFRINIC Fellows Committee to 
select AFRINIC Returning Fellows. 

Be a former AFRINIC fellow (with no limitation)
Be a former returning fellow (with no limitation)
Demonstrate participation on the draft of any policy proposal
Demonstrate participation on the draft on any public comments on any AFRINIC 
document
Participate remotely and/or live to at least 2 policy meetings after  being 
selected AFRINIC's fellow
Demonstrate  clear and referenced contribution toward his  country and Africa 
(a blog would be a good start)
Demonstrate useful contribution and permanent presence on the AFRINIC mailing 
list
Demonstrate how you shared what you've learnt during the program he has attended
Demonstrate useful contribution over the fellowship social group
Demonstrate willingness to help the fellowship comity over social media and all 

However we are open to any suggestions that may help to improve the process. 

> Some candidates were provided access to the candidates for the PDP chair  
> under guise of being an ex fellow.

As PDP chair is a position any member of AFRINIC community including AFRINIC 
fellows may apply for , we encourage any AFRINIC fellow willing to serve this 
community to apply to any open position at the AFRINIC governance structure.


Thanking you for your cooperation

Best Regards

___

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Head of Stakeholder Engagement , AFRINIC Ltd.

t:  +230 403 5100 | f: +230 466 6758 | tt: @afrinic | w: www.afrinic.net

facebook.com/afrinic | flickr.com/afrinic | youtube.com/afrinicmedia
___

> On 4 Jul 2019, at 00:21, 94cm4n .  wrote:
> 
> Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss.
> 
> Jehovahseun
> 
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n .,  > wrote:
> 
> Dear Caleb,
> I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions to 
> all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded 
> too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a 
> response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to 
> you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in  
> another planet. 
> First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for 
> AFRINIC. 
> Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point.
> Third, you did not include that fact that  some of the mentors appointed by 
> AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the  fellows to push their 
> polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows via 
> the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the PDP 
> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Brice ABBA]

Dear Azekiel

> Can you please provide us the list of all the mentors used during the
> last Afrinic meeting?

We don't have a list of mentors we only have one mentor per program and
for AFRINIC30 the mentor was Miss Afi EDOH


Regards,

-- 
Mr Brice B. ABBA - Community Development Manager
t: +230 403 51 00 | f: +230 466 6758 | tt: @afrinic | w:www.afrinic.net
facebook.com/afrinic | flickr.com/afrinic | youtube.com/afrinicmedia

Join us for AIS’19  in Kampala, Uganda from 9th to 21st June 2019





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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[94cm4n .]

Dear AFRInIC Staff,
Can you please provide us the list of all the mentors used during the last
Afrinic meeting?

Thanks.
Jehovahseun

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, 1:30 PM ,  wrote:

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>
>1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship (SOUAD ABIDI)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 13:29:12 +0100
> From: SOUAD ABIDI 
> To: "aleruchich...@yahoo.com" 
> Cc: "community-discuss@afrinic.net" ,
> "r...@afrinic.net" 
> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
> Message-ID:
> <
> caakrf6-wyeqoqr6vcw_ayfpkwjeao3tezrww_qmnzsvbsh3...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>  correction : the meeting was from 26 to 30 November 2018
>  excuse me
>
> Best regards
>
> Le jeu. 4 juil. 2019 ? 13:22, SOUAD ABIDI  a ?crit :
>
> > @Taiwo
> >
> > As an afriNIC29 fellow in Tunisia, I would like to make an input:
> >
> > We , as  fellows, have been given the policies doc(which is  a public doc
> > )  2 weeks before the meeting  in Tunisia : 28-30 Nov 2018 .
> >
> > Kindly find attached :
> >
> > --The screen short of the email (sent Nov 14th)
> > --The doc you asked for
> >
> > Talking as an afriNIC 29 fellow , but I believe it's the same process
> > adopted for all the meetings.
> >
> > Best regards.
> > Souad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 ? 22:07, aleruchi chuku via RPD  a
> > ?crit :
> >
> >> Hello Helen
> >> I think the issue Taiwo is emphasizing on is educating the New comers
> who
> >> are not fortunate to be "Afrinic Fellows".
> >>
> >> Aleruchi
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 7:36 pm, hkari...@isoc.or.ke
> >>  wrote:
> >> Taiwo,
> >> I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in
> >> Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that
> >> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We
> >> also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and
> >> onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue
> >> learning and contributing to policy discussions.
> >> Regards,
> >> Hellen
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the
> >> > policies to be discussed.
> >> >
> >> > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students
> >> > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new
> >> > members who are fresh in the policy development process.
> >> >
> >> > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the
> >> > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every
> >> > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers.
> >> >
> >> > Taiwo O
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Wafa,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So ? let me say this.  I see a document here ? which lays out
> >> >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also
> >> >>> lists the pros and cons.  Yes, Lazarus may have used the
> >> >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things
> >> >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in
> >> >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the
> >> >>> summary that I see in this document ? is som

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Lydia Akiriza]

So this caught my attention:-)

So Noah asked:
"A quick one Anne-vivien Paris if you dont mind.

I am curious to know if you have supported similar activities and events in
other RIR other than AfriNIC"

And Anne's response

"(1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to
those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few
candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the
list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website :
https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the
"apply now" and you will find a list of events)."

I believe Noah's question was have you sponsored any events other than
those in Africa? Interestingly the ONLY example you give is still in
Africa:-)

Last i checked Morocco is  in North Africa:-) And you proceed to tell us
about your future plans which i would hate to believe will now be aimed at
ensuring this question isn't asked again:-) well thanks for your
support...:-)

I should follow to build my opinion on this but this just didnt nail it for
me.

Blessings ya'll

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 14:33 Anne-vivien Paris, 
wrote:

> Dear Noah,
>
> Thank you for your interest in the Foundation. Please let me clarify:
>
> (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to
> those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few
> candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the
> list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website :
> https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the
> "apply now" and you will find a list of events).
>
> (2) Regarding your doubt on our 5th FAQ, let me explain that we do not
> target any particualr parties/regions. Our 5th FAQ states that "I am from
> Africa but I would really like ot attend RIR meetings outside Africa. Will
> that be possible?". Africa is randomly selected; you can indeed understand
> it is equivalent to "If I am from Asia can I attend meetings outside Asia".
> We appreciate you pointing this out - indeed the statement allows room for
> overead. However, I think if you take the extra time to read the answer,
> things will be clarified - we state explicitly that the Internet is
> borderless and participation of Internet governance shall not be restricted
> by geographical factors. Let me make it clear that this applies to all
> continents in the world.
>
> We thank you for the questions you raised which allows us to clarify
> things. My apologies for the wrong name used in the education package - it
> was a careless mistake. We will update it accordingly.
>
> Indeed, the community's feedback on us help the Foundation better itself
> and we appreciate that.
>
> Vivien
> *Vivien PARIS*
> *Larus FOUNDATION*
> p:+44 7746 416450
> w: www.larusfoundation.org
> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 03:43, Noah  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA,  wrote:
>>
>>> Huumm! Noah.
>>> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or
>>> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa.
>>> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think
>>> about this trick.
>>>
>>
>> Tessa
>>
>> While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service
>> region...
>>
>> I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question
>> specifically targets folks from Africa how attractive is that.!
>>
>> Have we become this vulnerable?
>>
>> https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/
>>
>> Noah
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> *Vivien *
> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*
> p:+852 29888918
> f:+852 29888368
> e:a@laruscloudservice.net
> w:laruscloudservice.net/
> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Badru Ntege]

Fully Agree with Sanders comments bellow.  We already have the frameworks in 
place.

 

On 7/3/19, 8:22 PM, "Sander Steffann"  wrote:

Hi Jordi,

> I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff 
(see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 
above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a 
difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy 
proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working 
group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole 
and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people 
to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it 
is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting 
would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there.

Cheers!
Sander



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Noah]

Dear Anne-vivien,

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:32 PM Anne-vivien Paris 
wrote:

> Dear Noah,
>
> Thank you for your interest in the Foundation. Please let me clarify:
>

I had missed your email but just for clarification, I am not interested in
the foundation actually.


> (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to
> those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few
> candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the
> list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website :
> https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the
> "apply now" and you will find a list of events).
>

This is exactly my point because Morocco is still in Africa last I checked.
My query was if the foundation has also offered fellowship anywhere else
but Africa.


>
> (2) Regarding your doubt on our 5th FAQ, let me explain that we do not
> target any particualr parties/regions. Our 5th FAQ states that "I am from
> Africa but I would really like ot attend RIR meetings outside Africa. Will
> that be possible?". Africa is randomly selected; you can indeed understand
> it is equivalent to "If I am from Asia can I attend meetings outside Asia".
>

Not if you completely spell our Africa in your FAQ. So still does not add
up Vivien.



> We appreciate you pointing this out - indeed the statement allows room for
> overead. However, I think if you take the extra time to read the answer,
> things will be clarified - we state explicitly that the Internet is
> borderless and participation of Internet governance shall not be restricted
> by geographical factors. Let me make it clear that this applies to all
> continents in the world.
>

Again any such fellowship in other regions as you call them continent like
RIPE, ARIN, APNIC or LACNIC?


> We thank you for the questions you raised which allows us to clarify
> things. My apologies for the wrong name used in the education package - it
> was a careless mistake. We will update it accordingly.
>

Apology accepted and just as a suggestion, the best thing you can do is to
direct newbies to the rpd-mailing list, the pdp section on the AfriNIC
website, ratified policies,  current policy policy proposals and rpd-list
archives as the best places for new comers to get education about the
policy development.

Newbies ought to develop a culture of reading and above all patience.
Individually drafted summary documents are prone to errors and mistakes as
proven already and thus misleading.


> Indeed, the community's feedback on us help the Foundation better itself
> and we appreciate that.
>

My feedback is that AfriNIC is better off running the fellowship program as
candidates for AfriNIC fellowship tend to be selected from various African
countries. If any member wants to support the AfriNIC fellowship program,
they can work with AfriNIC.

Noah


> Vivien
> *Vivien PARIS*
> *Larus FOUNDATION*
> p:+44 7746 416450
> w: www.larusfoundation.org
> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 03:43, Noah  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA,  wrote:
>>
>>> Huumm! Noah.
>>> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or
>>> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa.
>>> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think
>>> about this trick.
>>>
>>
>> Tessa
>>
>> While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service
>> region...
>>
>> I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question
>> specifically targets folks from Africa how attractive is that.!
>>
>> Have we become this vulnerable?
>>
>> https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/
>>
>> Noah
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>
>
> --
> *Vivien *
> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*
> p:+852 29888918
> f:+852 29888368
> e:a@laruscloudservice.net
> w:laruscloudservice.net/
> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[94cm4n .]

Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss.

Jehovahseun

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n .,  wrote:

>
> Dear Caleb,
> I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions
> to all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded
> too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a
> response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to
> you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in
> another planet.
> First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for
> AFRINIC.
> Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point.
> Third, you did not include that fact that  some of the mentors appointed
> by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the  fellows to push their
> polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows
> via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the
> PDP chair.
> @ Heleen and other fellows? is this not True.
> AFRINIC fellows were used  by some to achieve thier aim. There is a
> serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in
> appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided
> access to the candidates for the PDP chair  under guise of being an ex
> fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about
> WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day.
>
> Regards
> Jehovahseun
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 8:56 PM ,  wrote:
>
>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to
>> r...@afrinic.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> rpd-requ...@afrinic.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> rpd-ow...@afrinic.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>>   (Taiwo Oyewande)
>>2. Re: RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 (afia faith)
>>
>>
>> ------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:21:54 +0100
>> From: Taiwo Oyewande 
>> To: hkari...@isoc.or.ke
>> Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net, r...@afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
>>
>> @hellen.
>>
>> Thank you for you insight. Please can you attach a copy of the summary
>> given to you to help new intakes get up to speed. - this is what I
>> encourage and hope AFRINIC can give to new comers and hopefully distribute
>> in the new comers session- .
>>
>> @ caleb
>> ..
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkari...@isoc.or.ke wrote:
>> >
>> > Taiwo,
>> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting
>> in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that
>> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also
>> had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite
>> discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and
>> contributing to policy discussions.
>> > Regards,
>> > Hellen
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the
>> >> policies to be discussed.
>> >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students
>> >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new
>> >> members who are fresh in the policy development process.
>> >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the
>> >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every
>> >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.
>> >> Cheers.
>> >> Taiwo O
>> >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>>> Wafa,
>> >>>> So ? let me say this.  I see a document here ? which lays out
>> >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also
>> >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Taiwo Oyewande]

; had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front
>>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him – however – I
>>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is
>>>> essentially a democratic process, that means – I respect his
>>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on
>>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say.  In the same
>>>> way – I respect the right of any member to do that – and I
>>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if
>>>> they do not agree with it.It is through this lobbying position
>>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great
>>>> policy is born – it is not through acquiescence, nor is it
>>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.
>>>> My view – if anyone wants to come into the room and have their
>>>> say – so be it – that is bottom up.  If people want to lobby
>>>> their positions – so be it – that is bottom up.  If people
>>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for
>>>> all I care – so be it – that is the nature of the democratic
>>>> position.  If people want to bus a thousand people who share their
>>>> views – again – so be it – that is the democratic process.
>>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut – but –
>>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself.  What I see here
>>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
>>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy – unlike what I have seen time and
>>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
>>>> do with the content or the policy.
>>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite
>>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
>>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
>>>> comprehensive work – and I applaud them for taking a stance that
>>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
>>>> their position in any way shape or form.  That is not to say I
>>>> agree with the positions taken in this document – I will reserve
>>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
>>>> interpretation of such – but – I embrace the fact that at
>>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
>>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>>>> So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact
>>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies – and left
>>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.
>>>> Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did –
>>>> and
>>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Andrew
>>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI 
>>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>>>> TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>>> CC: r...@afrinic.net
>>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>>>> Hi
>>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
>>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
>>>> Kampala, were given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC
>>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
>>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
>>>> participants interventions on the proposals.
>>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these
>>>> participants views on the proposals  and their contributions at
>>>> the PPM and after
>>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
>>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
>>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
>>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
>>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
>>>> Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  Also
>>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough
>>>> consensus  process.
>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Taiwo Oyewande]

it was ok then – suddenly it changes now because we
>>>> don’t like the individual doing it?
>>>> Sorry – this isn’t the way it works – and let me be clear
>>>> – Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I
>>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front
>>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him – however – I
>>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is
>>>> essentially a democratic process, that means – I respect his
>>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on
>>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say.  In the same
>>>> way – I respect the right of any member to do that – and I
>>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if
>>>> they do not agree with it.It is through this lobbying position
>>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great
>>>> policy is born – it is not through acquiescence, nor is it
>>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.
>>>> My view – if anyone wants to come into the room and have their
>>>> say – so be it – that is bottom up.  If people want to lobby
>>>> their positions – so be it – that is bottom up.  If people
>>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for
>>>> all I care – so be it – that is the nature of the democratic
>>>> position.  If people want to bus a thousand people who share their
>>>> views – again – so be it – that is the democratic process.
>>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut – but –
>>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself.  What I see here
>>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
>>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy – unlike what I have seen time and
>>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
>>>> do with the content or the policy.
>>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite
>>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
>>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
>>>> comprehensive work – and I applaud them for taking a stance that
>>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
>>>> their position in any way shape or form.  That is not to say I
>>>> agree with the positions taken in this document – I will reserve
>>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
>>>> interpretation of such – but – I embrace the fact that at
>>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
>>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>>>> So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact
>>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies – and left
>>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.
>>>> Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did –
>>>> and
>>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Andrew
>>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI 
>>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>>>> TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>>> CC: r...@afrinic.net
>>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>>>> Hi
>>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
>>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
>>>> Kampala, were given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC
>>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
>>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
>>>> participants interventions on the proposals.
>>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these
>>>> participants views on the proposals  and their contributions at
>>>> the PPM and after
>>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
>>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
>>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
>>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
>>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
&

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Taiwo Oyewande]

; had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front
>>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him – however – I
>>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is
>>>> essentially a democratic process, that means – I respect his
>>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on
>>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say.  In the same
>>>> way – I respect the right of any member to do that – and I
>>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if
>>>> they do not agree with it.It is through this lobbying position
>>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great
>>>> policy is born – it is not through acquiescence, nor is it
>>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.
>>>> My view – if anyone wants to come into the room and have their
>>>> say – so be it – that is bottom up.  If people want to lobby
>>>> their positions – so be it – that is bottom up.  If people
>>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for
>>>> all I care – so be it – that is the nature of the democratic
>>>> position.  If people want to bus a thousand people who share their
>>>> views – again – so be it – that is the democratic process.
>>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut – but –
>>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself.  What I see here
>>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
>>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy – unlike what I have seen time and
>>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
>>>> do with the content or the policy.
>>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite
>>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
>>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
>>>> comprehensive work – and I applaud them for taking a stance that
>>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
>>>> their position in any way shape or form.  That is not to say I
>>>> agree with the positions taken in this document – I will reserve
>>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
>>>> interpretation of such – but – I embrace the fact that at
>>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
>>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>>>> So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact
>>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies – and left
>>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.
>>>> Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did –
>>>> and
>>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Andrew
>>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI 
>>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>>>> TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>>> CC: r...@afrinic.net
>>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>>>> Hi
>>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
>>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
>>>> Kampala, were given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC
>>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
>>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
>>>> participants interventions on the proposals.
>>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these
>>>> participants views on the proposals  and their contributions at
>>>> the PPM and after
>>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
>>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
>>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
>>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
>>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
>>>> Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  Also
>>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough
>>>> consensus  process.
>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[hkariuki]

 people who share their
views – again – so be it – that is the democratic process.
However, it is the community who then need to rebut – but –
the rebuttal should be on the policy itself.  What I see here
however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
the *CONTENT* of the policy – unlike what I have seen time and
again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
do with the content or the policy.

So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite
frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
comprehensive work – and I applaud them for taking a stance that
was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
their position in any way shape or form.  That is not to say I
agree with the positions taken in this document – I will reserve
my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
interpretation of such – but – I embrace the fact that at
least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.

So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact
that you lobbied your position based on the policies – and left
the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.

Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did –
and

_THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_

Thanks

Andrew

FROM: wafa DAHMANI 
SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net
CC: r...@afrinic.net
SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

Hi

It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
Kampala, were given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC
Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg


The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
participants interventions on the proposals.

The education package so proposed intends to condition these
participants views on the proposals  and their contributions at
the PPM and after

I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  Also
PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough
consensus  process.

Section 6

One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
consensus.

Section 7

Five people for and one hundred people against might still be
rough consensus

My African fellows,

Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process
is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was
useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand
what is going on and what Africa needs...  I hope you’ve made
your minds and  now able to speak on your personal  capacity..

The real education package  is as below:

=

Proposal to establish AFRINIC





http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997



IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)

https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

AFRINIC constitution

https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

Registration Service  Agreement

https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

AFRINIC policy manual

https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM

https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

AFRINIC PDP

https://www.afrinic.net/policy

Rough Consensus

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

AFRINIC current policy proposals

https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

RiRs PDPs

https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

RIR comparative  policy overview



https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/



==

Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

Come build African Internet by Africans.

As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,
afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of
IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I
hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.

I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of
this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid
intentions...  the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must
carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of
conduct.

The African Internet community as well as the global Internet
community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy
development process and operations.

-Wafa

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Anne-vivien Paris]

Hi Jordi,

Thank you for your input.

Our intention of making this education package is to help those newcomers
by providing them a brief introduction to the massive amount of discussions
on the mailing list. Afrinic website is complicated and intimidating for
beginners and we all know it is not that user-friendly and organised.

When conducting the material, we have tried our best to make it unbiased
and all quotations are selected on a random basis, unfavourable of any
particular party. I agree with you that pros and cons may not be the best
classifications, as it does limit the scope
of discussion. The classification is used merely because we deem it a
relatively easy and accessible way to understand the content as a starting
point.

The package is solely intended to help our fellows as a user-friendly
introductory package to them. Indeed, the package is not perfect and there
is a lot of space for improvement. We thank you for pointing out the
problems as this allows us to improve.

Regarding your doubt regarding our T, please kindly note that the
statement of protecting intellectual property rights is commonly found in
fellowship programmes of NGO and tertiary institutions. Let’s take RIPE’s
fellowship programme as a reference; in article 7.2 , it is written, “The
RIPE NCC's intellectual property rights (agreements, documents, software,
databases, website, RIPE NCC Material) may only be used, reproduced and
made available to third parties upon prior written authorisation from the
RIPE NCC and in accordance with the RIPE NCC Copyright Statement.” (Link:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-fellowship/ripe-fellowship-terms-and-conditions).
Although we do not have NDA, we protect our intellectual properties as we
value our staff and member’s contribution and copyrights. We believe each
individual’s intellectual property shall be strictly protected under
today’s Internet World to prevent plagiarism. If you consult a lawyer, it
is most likely he will tell you that NDA and protection of intellectual
property rights are entirely different things. The difference between these
two is that with protection of intellectual property rights, it is totally
fine if you talk to a third party about the programme and its details, but
distributing Larus Foundation’s intellectual property without our writing
consent is not acceptable. This is just to protect our intellectual
property rights and it does not in any sense restrict our fellow’s freedom
of speech.

As a NGO, we respect and value the community’s voice as it is what we
serve. The reason we published this here is because we want to let the
community know that we are transparent and open. Knowing the “pros” and
“cons” of this education package is not our intention, but the scope and
potential of improvement you showed us is very much valuable and
appreciated.

Best,
Vivien
*Vivien PARIS*
*LARUS FOUNDATION*
p:+44 7746 416450
w: www.larusfoundation.org
a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 23:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> One more point to add.
>
>
>
> I recall it has been said that fellows don’t sign an NDA and you also
> indicated that everything is public.
>
>
>
> However, when I read your T, it says:
>
>
>
> II. FELLOW’S OBLIGATIONS
>
> J. LARUS’s intellectual property rights (including but not limited to
> agreements, documents, software, databases, website) may only be used,
> reproduced and made available to third parties upon prior written
> authorization from LARUS.
>
>
>
> So, I think this is contradictory.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 3/7/19 17:45, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> escribió:
>
>
>
> Hi Anne-Vivien,
>
>
>
> I don’t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your
> attachment, it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in
> my opinion.
>
>
>
> 1)  It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals
> (even withdraw ones), so it confuses people.
>
> 2)  It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your
> own summary of the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased.
>
> 3)  It is extracting “pros” and “cons”, so again, it is biasing
> people.
>
>
>
> I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff
> (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2
> and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only
> **latest** proposals/versions are considered.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris"  escribió:
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary
> to clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the
> community.
>
>
>
> As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization.
> It 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Sander Steffann]

Hi,

> I agree with your if we mean summary of the discussion, but actually I was 
> meaning summary of the proposal, which in fact is already requested in the 
> proposal forms and is already done by authors. Sometimes that's more a single 
> paragraph, so in those cases I think it should be up to the authors to 
> prepare it.

I'm not sure that such a proposal summary would be useful. Newcomers can read 
those from the proposals themselves. The difficult thing to learn is how the 
proposal's potential impact is perceived and discussed. That part can take up 
much time, and that is where I see the usefulness of a neutral summary.

Cheers,
Sander



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sander,

I agree with your if we mean summary of the discussion, but actually I was 
meaning summary of the proposal, which in fact is already requested in the 
proposal forms and is already done by authors. Sometimes that's more a single 
paragraph, so in those cases I think it should be up to the authors to prepare 
it.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 3/7/19 18:20, "Sander Steffann"  escribió:

Hi Jordi,

> I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff 
(see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 
above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a 
difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy 
proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working 
group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole 
and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people 
to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it 
is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting 
would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there.

Cheers!
Sander





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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Sander Steffann]

Hi Jordi,

> I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see 
> our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 
> above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only 
> *latest* proposals/versions are considered.

I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a 
difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy 
proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working 
group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole 
and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people 
to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it 
is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting 
would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there.

Cheers!
Sander



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

One more point to add.

 

I recall it has been said that fellows don’t sign an NDA and you also indicated 
that everything is public.

 

However, when I read your T, it says:

 

II. FELLOW’S OBLIGATIONS

J. LARUS’s intellectual property rights (including but not limited to 
agreements, documents, software, databases, website) may only be used, 
reproduced and made available to third parties upon prior written authorization 
from LARUS.

 

So, I think this is contradictory.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 17:45, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

Hi Anne-Vivien,

 

I don’t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your attachment, 
it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in my opinion.

 

1)  It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals (even 
withdraw ones), so it confuses people.

2)  It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your own 
summary of the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased.

3)  It is extracting “pros” and “cons”, so again, it is biasing people.

 

I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see 
our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above 
and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris"  escribió:

 

Dear all, 

 

Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to 
clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. 

 

As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is 
a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged 
by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further 
confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we 
provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you 
the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed 
Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). 

 

In fact, you can also find the T in the link below: 

https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/

 

We would be more than happy to provide our T and education package to the 
community for review should there be such a request in the future.

 

Best regards, 

Vivien 

Vivien PARIS
Larus FOUNDATION
p:+44 7746 416450

w: www.larusfoundation.org
a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Anne-Vivien,

 

I don’t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your attachment, 
it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in my opinion.

 
It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals (even withdraw 
ones), so it confuses people.
It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your own summary of 
the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased.
It is extracting “pros” and “cons”, so again, it is biasing people.
 

I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see 
our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above 
and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris"  escribió:

 

Dear all, 

 

Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to 
clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. 

 

As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is 
a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged 
by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further 
confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we 
provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you 
the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed 
Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). 

 

In fact, you can also find the T in the link below: 

https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/

 

We would be more than happy to provide our T and education package to the 
community for review should there be such a request in the future.

 

Best regards, 

Vivien 

Vivien PARIS
Larus FOUNDATION
p:+44 7746 416450

w: www.larusfoundation.org
a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Sander Steffann]

Hi,

> (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to 
> those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few 
> candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco.

You might want to check your geography there and pick a different example 

I understand what you meant though. And helping people to cross regional 
borders to exchange knowledge and broaden their view is a good thing.

Cheers,
Sander



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Anne-vivien Paris]

Dear Noah,

Thank you for your interest in the Foundation. Please let me clarify:

(1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to
those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few
candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the
list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website :
https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the
"apply now" and you will find a list of events).

(2) Regarding your doubt on our 5th FAQ, let me explain that we do not
target any particualr parties/regions. Our 5th FAQ states that "I am from
Africa but I would really like ot attend RIR meetings outside Africa. Will
that be possible?". Africa is randomly selected; you can indeed understand
it is equivalent to "If I am from Asia can I attend meetings outside Asia".
We appreciate you pointing this out - indeed the statement allows room for
overead. However, I think if you take the extra time to read the answer,
things will be clarified - we state explicitly that the Internet is
borderless and participation of Internet governance shall not be restricted
by geographical factors. Let me make it clear that this applies to all
continents in the world.

We thank you for the questions you raised which allows us to clarify
things. My apologies for the wrong name used in the education package - it
was a careless mistake. We will update it accordingly.

Indeed, the community's feedback on us help the Foundation better itself
and we appreciate that.

Vivien
*Vivien PARIS*
*Larus FOUNDATION*
p:+44 7746 416450
w: www.larusfoundation.org
a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR


On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 03:43, Noah  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA,  wrote:
>
>> Huumm! Noah.
>> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or
>> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa.
>> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think
>> about this trick.
>>
>
> Tessa
>
> While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service
> region...
>
> I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question
> specifically targets folks from Africa how attractive is that.!
>
> Have we become this vulnerable?
>
> https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/
>
> Noah
>
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>


-- 
*Vivien *
*Larus Cloud Service Limited*
p:+852 29888918
f:+852 29888368
e:a@laruscloudservice.net
w:laruscloudservice.net/
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Noah]

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA,  wrote:

> Huumm! Noah.
> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or
> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa.
> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think
> about this trick.
>

Tessa

While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service
region...

I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question
specifically targets folks from Africa how attractive is that.!

Have we become this vulnerable?

https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Ousmane M. TESSA]

Huumm! Noah.
Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or  
lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa.
Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think  
about this trick.

Ousmane TESSA


Noah  a écrit :


On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Anne-vivien Paris, 
wrote:



If you have any questions regarding the Foundation and its events, please
do not hesitate to contact us.



A quick one Anne-vivien Paris if you dont mind.

I am curious to know if you have supported similar activities and events in
other RIR other than AfriNIC?

Noah



--
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Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA
Département de mathématiques et d'informatique
Université A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER

Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER
Téléphone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28
  (mobile) :  +227 93 77 74 93 /  91 49 16  39 / 96 27 99 92

E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Noah]

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Anne-vivien Paris, 
wrote:

>
> If you have any questions regarding the Foundation and its events, please
> do not hesitate to contact us.
>

A quick one Anne-vivien Paris if you dont mind.

I am curious to know if you have supported similar activities and events in
other RIR other than AfriNIC?

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Augustine CHII Ngek]

Hi everyone, hello Wafa
I am happy you have brought these resources to people like myself new to
AFRINIC business. Thanks so much for the educational materials. A lot of
talking goes on here but I am sure some people can talk now with
understanding.

To me for whatever reason the fellowship was for, the provision of these
materials surpasses it all. Teach the community or do something to the
community and you can get the community's support in any matter that come
up.

We shall judge you who came into the board by what you shall do to make
AFRINIC stronger against what is suspected. We are interested at
discussions that will push AFRINIC forward. People have been voted into
board so discussions concerning what the community wants AFRINIC to be at
the end of their mandate should start now. Please let the discussion about
people end, yes education for the next African leaders!
NGEK Augustine CHII
Yaounde Cameroon



On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 10:35 wafa DAHMANI,  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were
> given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources
> Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>
>
> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views
> of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions
> on the proposals.
>
>
>
> The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants
> views on the proposals  and their contributions at the PPM and after
>
>
>
> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to
> participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind
> each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the
> PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views
> are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.
> Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>
>
>
>  RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough
> consensus  process.
>
>
>
>  Section 6
>
> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
> consensus.
>
>
>
> Section 7
>
> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough
> consensus
>
>
>
> My African fellows,
>
>
>
> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is
> legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful to
> you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and
> what Africa needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now able to
> speak on your personal  capacity..
>
>
>
> The real education package  is as below:
>
> =
>
>
>
> Proposal to establish AFRINIC
>
>
> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
>
>
>
> IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
>
> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf
>
>
>
> AFRINIC constitution
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws
>
>
>
> Registration Service  Agreement
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa
>
>
>
> AFRINIC policy manual
>
> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual
>
>
>
> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre
>
>
>
> AFRINIC PDP
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy
>
>
>
> Rough Consensus
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282
>
>
>
> AFRINIC current policy proposals
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals
>
>
>
> RiRs PDPs
>
> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/
>
>
>
> RIR comparative  policy overview
>
> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
>
> ==
>
>
>
> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.
>
>
>
> Come build African Internet by Africans.
>
>
>
> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic
> member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long
> established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would
> find these discussions in the archives.
>
>
>
> I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of this
> resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions...  the
> provisions of the bylaws and RSA must  carefully be applied to recall
> members to acceptable code of conduct.
>
>
>
> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community
> must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process
> and operations.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Wafa
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>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Tom Ochang]

Hello there,
  I am an advocate for freedom of speech and expression and I think
that what Larus foundation did was to do a summary of the policies to
enable it's fellows to understand the policies better before discussions
during the PDP and concerning the 16million IP addresses, I don't think
Larus Stole them but I guess they were acquired legally by Larus
foundation. Finally, I urge Larus foundation to put more effort in making
summaries of all the policies that are meant to be discussed during the PDP
and also place it in a public domain for newbies.


 ..Tom Ochang
 Nigeria.

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> Just one final thought on this –
>
> “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
> to say it” – Evelyn Beatrice Hall (Friends of Voltaire, 1906)
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:34
> *To:* wafa DAHMANI ; community-discuss@afrinic.net
> *Cc:* r...@afrinic.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>
>
>
> Wafa,
>
> So – let me say this.  I see a document here – which lays out the policies
> – and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons.
> Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but –
> one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is – if you believe
> in something – you have to lobby for it – and to be frank – the summary
> that I see in this document – is something that by and large – should have
> been done long before they got around to it.
>
> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free
> to go and advocate for my position.  I am also entirely free to sponsor
> people to come to a public meeting – and I am entirely free to choose those
> people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that’s
> life – but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature
> of internet policy development.  Do you think that similar does not happen
> elsewhere?  People lobby for the positions that they care about.  It
> happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when
> someone else does the same thing.
>
> Let me also say – it’s not like this hasn’t been happening before – and I
> want to quote from the OIF website: *IOF organises political activities
> and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking
> populations.*
>
> Yet – this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the
> room with people – and that statement does not say – is of benefit to
> Africa – it does not say is of benefit to the African continent – it does
> not say is to the benefit of the continent – it singles out a single
> demographic on the continent and says – we do what we do for their
> benefit.   Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that – I’m
> actually ok with it – though I admit I have waivered on this stance –
> however, we cannot say – because it’s a government political organization –
> it’s ok – but when a member chooses to have a foundation – and sponsor
> people to the meetings – and then lobby for the positions that member is
> passionate about – suddenly its wrong.  That is called hypocrisy.
>
> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone – with slips of
> paper and read a comment on a policy – and then go and sit down – and the
> same happened in Botswana.  Except, what I found was, when queried on the
> position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they
> had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn’t
> understand the position they were taking themselves.  So who was behind
> that?  And all of that – is on video for the world to see – but – it was ok
> then – suddenly it changes now because we don’t like the individual doing
> it?
>
> Sorry – this isn’t the way it works – and let me be clear – Lu Heng is not
> a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things
> to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I
> said to him – however – I respect his rights as a member to participate in
> what is essentially a democratic process, that means – I respect his right
> to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and
> I respect his right to have his say.  In the same way – I respect the right
> of any member to do that – and I respect the right of the members to then
> rebut what is said if they do not agree with it.It is through this
> lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that
> great policy is born – it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through
> the silencing of the rights of others.
>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Andrew Alston]

Just one final thought on this –
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say 
it” – Evelyn Beatrice Hall (Friends of Voltaire, 1906)
Andrew


From: Andrew Alston 
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:34
To: wafa DAHMANI ; community-discuss@afrinic.net
Cc: r...@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

Wafa,
So – let me say this.  I see a document here – which lays out the policies – 
and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons.  Yes, 
Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but – one of 
the things that I have long accepted in my life is – if you believe in 
something – you have to lobby for it – and to be frank – the summary that I see 
in this document – is something that by and large – should have been done long 
before they got around to it.
If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free to go 
and advocate for my position.  I am also entirely free to sponsor people to 
come to a public meeting – and I am entirely free to choose those people as I 
so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that’s life – but it 
certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of internet policy 
development.  Do you think that similar does not happen elsewhere?  People 
lobby for the positions that they care about.  It happens in politics, it 
happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when someone else does the same 
thing.
Let me also say – it’s not like this hasn’t been happening before – and I want 
to quote from the OIF website: IOF organises political activities and actions 
of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking populations.
Yet – this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the room 
with people – and that statement does not say – is of benefit to Africa – it 
does not say is of benefit to the African continent – it does not say is to the 
benefit of the continent – it singles out a single demographic on the continent 
and says – we do what we do for their benefit.   Now, let me be very clear, if 
they wish to do that – I’m actually ok with it – though I admit I have waivered 
on this stance – however, we cannot say – because it’s a government political 
organization – it’s ok – but when a member chooses to have a foundation – and 
sponsor people to the meetings – and then lobby for the positions that member 
is passionate about – suddenly its wrong.  That is called hypocrisy.
In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone – with slips of paper 
and read a comment on a policy – and then go and sit down – and the same 
happened in Botswana.  Except, what I found was, when queried on the position 
that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they had off the 
paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn’t understand the 
position they were taking themselves.  So who was behind that?  And all of that 
– is on video for the world to see – but – it was ok then – suddenly it changes 
now because we don’t like the individual doing it?
Sorry – this isn’t the way it works – and let me be clear – Lu Heng is not a 
friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things to say 
to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I said to him – 
however – I respect his rights as a member to participate in what is 
essentially a democratic process, that means – I respect his right to lobby for 
his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and I respect his 
right to have his say.  In the same way – I respect the right of any member to 
do that – and I respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if 
they do not agree with it.It is through this lobbying position and through 
the back and forth that accompanies it, that great policy is born – it is not 
through acquiescence, nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others.
My view – if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say – so be it – 
that is bottom up.  If people want to lobby their positions – so be it – that 
is bottom up.  If people want to spend money running tv adverts about their 
positions for all I care – so be it – that is the nature of the democratic 
position.  If people want to bus a thousand people who share their views – 
again – so be it – that is the democratic process.   However, it is the 
community who then need to rebut – but – the rebuttal should be on the policy 
itself.  What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying 
position taken on the *content* of the policy – unlike what I have seen time 
and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to do with 
the content or the policy.
So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite frankly, reading 
this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some serious 
differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Taiwo Oyewande]

nning tv adverts about 
>> their positions for all I care – so be it – that is the nature of the 
>> democratic position.  If people want to bus a thousand people who share 
>> their views – again – so be it – that is the democratic process.   However, 
>> it is the community who then need to rebut – but – the rebuttal should be on 
>> the policy itself.  What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and a 
>> lobbying position taken on the *content* of the policy – unlike what I have 
>> seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING 
>> to do with the content or the policy.
>> 
>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite frankly, 
>> reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some 
>> serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work – and I 
>> applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace 
>> their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form.  That is 
>> not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document – I will 
>> reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own 
>> interpretation of such – but – I embrace the fact that at least, it was done 
>> based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal 
>> attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact that you lobbied 
>> your position based on the policies – and left the other garbage behind, 
>> which is what we so often see. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did – and
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> THAT IS DEMOCRATIC
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: wafa DAHMANI  
>> Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>> To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
>> Cc: r...@afrinic.net
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi
>>  
>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation 
>> fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a  
>> confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals 
>> detailed in the following link:
>> 
>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>> 
>> 
>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of 
>> Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on 
>> the proposals.
>>  
>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants 
>> views on the proposals  and their contributions at the PPM and after
>>  
>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to 
>> participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind 
>> each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the 
>> PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views 
>> are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  
>> Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>>  
>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough consensus 
>>  process.
>>  
>> Section 6
>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus.
>>  
>> Section 7
>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus
>>  
>> My African fellows,
>>  
>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is 
>> legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful to 
>> you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and 
>> what Africa needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now able to speak 
>> on your personal  capacity..
>>  
>> The real education package  is as below:
>> =
>>  
>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC
>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
>>  
>> IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf
>>  
>> AFRINIC constitution
>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws
>>  
>> Registration Service  Agreement
>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa
>>  
>> AFRINIC policy manual
>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual
>>  
>> AFRINIC policies before th

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Anne-vivien Paris]

king
> populations.*
>
> Yet – this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the
> room with people – and that statement does not say – is of benefit to
> Africa – it does not say is of benefit to the African continent – it does
> not say is to the benefit of the continent – it singles out a single
> demographic on the continent and says – we do what we do for their
> benefit.   Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that – I’m
> actually ok with it – though I admit I have waivered on this stance –
> however, we cannot say – because it’s a government political organization –
> it’s ok – but when a member chooses to have a foundation – and sponsor
> people to the meetings – and then lobby for the positions that member is
> passionate about – suddenly its wrong.  That is called hypocrisy.
>
> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone – with slips of
> paper and read a comment on a policy – and then go and sit down – and the
> same happened in Botswana.  Except, what I found was, when queried on the
> position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they
> had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn’t
> understand the position they were taking themselves.  So who was behind
> that?  And all of that – is on video for the world to see – but – it was ok
> then – suddenly it changes now because we don’t like the individual doing
> it?
>
> Sorry – this isn’t the way it works – and let me be clear – Lu Heng is not
> a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things
> to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I
> said to him – however – I respect his rights as a member to participate in
> what is essentially a democratic process, that means – I respect his right
> to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and
> I respect his right to have his say.  In the same way – I respect the right
> of any member to do that – and I respect the right of the members to then
> rebut what is said if they do not agree with it.It is through this
> lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that
> great policy is born – it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through
> the silencing of the rights of others.
>
> My view – if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say – so be
> it – that is bottom up.  If people want to lobby their positions – so be it
> – that is bottom up.  If people want to spend money running tv adverts
> about their positions for all I care – so be it – that is the nature of the
> democratic position.  If people want to bus a thousand people who share
> their views – again – so be it – that is the democratic process.   However,
> it is the community who then need to rebut – but – the rebuttal should be
> on the policy itself.  What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and
> a lobbying position taken on the **content** of the policy – unlike what
> I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has
> NOTHING to do with the content or the policy.
>
> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here – quite frankly,
> reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some
> serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work – and I
> applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace
> their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form.  That is
> not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document – I will
> reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
> interpretation of such – but – I embrace the fact that at least, it was
> done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal
> attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>
>
>
> So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact that you
> lobbied your position based on the policies – and left the other garbage
> behind, which is what we so often see.
>
>
>
> Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did – and
>
>
>
> *THAT IS DEMOCRATIC*
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> *From:* wafa DAHMANI 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
> *To:* community-discuss@afrinic.net
> *Cc:* r...@afrinic.net
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were
> given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy
> proposals detailed in the following link:
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[DANIEL NANGHAKA]

Thank Wafa for sharing the resources.

This is a good insight that members should be educated about the AFRINIC
PDP.
And further it is critical that Capacity building is done for the
respective new members to understand or learn about Policy Development
procedures and how the policies are formulated.
More to that - the need to drive consensus in a PDP.

Many do not understand this.

- Daniel K. Nanghaka
ᐧ

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 12:34, wafa DAHMANI  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were
> given a  confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources
> Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>
>
> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views
> of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions
> on the proposals.
>
>
>
> The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants
> views on the proposals  and their contributions at the PPM and after
>
>
>
> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to
> participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind
> each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the
> PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views
> are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.
> Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>
>
>
>  RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough
> consensus  process.
>
>
>
>  Section 6
>
> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
> consensus.
>
>
>
> Section 7
>
> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough
> consensus
>
>
>
> My African fellows,
>
>
>
> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is
> legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful to
> you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and
> what Africa needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now able to
> speak on your personal  capacity..
>
>
>
> The real education package  is as below:
>
> =
>
>
>
> Proposal to establish AFRINIC
>
>
> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
>
>
>
> IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
>
> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf
>
>
>
> AFRINIC constitution
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws
>
>
>
> Registration Service  Agreement
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa
>
>
>
> AFRINIC policy manual
>
> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual
>
>
>
> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre
>
>
>
> AFRINIC PDP
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy
>
>
>
> Rough Consensus
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282
>
>
>
> AFRINIC current policy proposals
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals
>
>
>
> RiRs PDPs
>
> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/
>
>
>
> RIR comparative  policy overview
>
> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
>
> ==
>
>
>
> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.
>
>
>
> Come build African Internet by Africans.
>
>
>
> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic
> member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long
> established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would
> find these discussions in the archives.
>
>
>
> I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of this
> resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions...  the
> provisions of the bylaws and RSA must  carefully be applied to recall
> members to acceptable code of conduct.
>
>
>
> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community
> must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process
> and operations.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Wafa
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
___
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Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Andrew Alston]

, it was done based on what was written, and not on 
personal relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.

So – to Lazarus – thank you for a job well done in the fact that you lobbied 
your position based on the policies – and left the other garbage behind, which 
is what we so often see.

Finally – again – I respect the right to do what they did – and

THAT IS DEMOCRATIC

Thanks

Andrew

From: wafa DAHMANI 
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Cc: r...@afrinic.net
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

Hi

It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation 
fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a  
confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals 
detailed in the following link:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg<https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg>


The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of 
Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the 
proposals.

The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views 
on the proposals  and their contributions at the PPM and after

I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to 
participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each 
source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP 
matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are 
encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  Also 
PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough consensus  
process.

Section 6
One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus.

Section 7
Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus

My African fellows,

Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate 
and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful to you and allow 
you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa 
needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now able to speak on your personal 
 capacity..

The real education package  is as below:
=

Proposal to establish AFRINIC
http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997<http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997>

IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf<https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf>

AFRINIC constitution
https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws<https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws>

Registration Service  Agreement
https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa<https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa>

AFRINIC policy manual
https://afrinic.net/policy/manual<https://afrinic.net/policy/manual>

AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre<https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre>

AFRINIC PDP
https://www.afrinic.net/policy<https://www.afrinic.net/policy>

Rough Consensus
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282>

AFRINIC current policy proposals
https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals<https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals>

RiRs PDPs
https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/<https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/>

RIR comparative  policy overview
https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/<https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/>
==

Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

Come build African Internet by Africans.

As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member 
with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and 
discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these 
discussions in the archives.

I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of this resource 
member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions...  the provisions of the 
bylaws and RSA must  carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code 
of conduct.

The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must 
pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and 
operations.


-Wafa
___
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[Badru Ntege]

Wafa

Thanks for this response.  It’s critical that new members open their eyes and 
minds and make reasoned unbiased contributions to the PDP.

Sent from my iPhone

On 2 Jul 2019, at 12:35, wafa DAHMANI mailto:w...@ati.tn>> wrote:

Hi

It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation 
fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a  
confidential  Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals 
detailed in the following link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg

The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of 
Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the 
proposals.

The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views 
on the proposals  and their contributions at the PPM and after

I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to 
participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each 
source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP 
matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are 
encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important  than of agreement.  Also 
PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

 RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear  on these aspects of  the rough consensus  
process.

 Section 6
One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus.

Section 7
Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus

My African fellows,

Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate 
and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting  was useful to you and allow 
you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa 
needs...  I hope you’ve made your minds and  now able to speak on your personal 
 capacity..

The real education package  is as below:
=

Proposal to establish AFRINIC
http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997

IANA report  on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

AFRINIC constitution
https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

Registration Service  Agreement
https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

AFRINIC policy manual
https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

AFRINIC PDP
https://www.afrinic.net/policy

Rough Consensus
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

AFRINIC current policy proposals
https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

RiRs PDPs
https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

RIR comparative  policy overview
https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
==

Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

Come build African Internet by Africans.

As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member 
with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and 
discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these 
discussions in the archives.

I call the attention of the board on the  repetitive attempts of this resource 
member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions...  the provisions of the 
bylaws and RSA must  carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code 
of conduct.

The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must 
pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and 
operations.


-Wafa
___
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[Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[wafa DAHMANI]

Hi 



It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation 
fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a 
confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals 
detailed in the following link: 




https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg 




The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of 
Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the 
proposals. 



The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views 
on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after 



I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to 
participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each 
source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP 
matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are 
encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP 
is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. 



RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus 
process. 



Section 6 

One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. 



Section 7 

Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus 



My African fellows, 



Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate 
and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you 
to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I 
hope you’ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. 



The real education package is as below: 

= 



Proposal to establish AFRINIC 

http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
 



IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) 

https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf 



AFRINIC constitution 

https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws 



Registration Service Agreement 

https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa 



AFRINIC policy manual 

https://afrinic.net/policy/manual 



AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM 

https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre 



AFRINIC PDP 

https://www.afrinic.net/policy 



Rough Consensus 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 



AFRINIC current policy proposals 

https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals 



RiRs PDPs 

https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ 



RIR comparative policy overview 

https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ 

== 



Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. 



Come build African Internet by Africans. 



As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member 
with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and 
discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these 
discussions in the archives. 



I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource 
member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the 
bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code 
of conduct. 



The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must 
pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and 
operations. 





-Wafa 
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Community-Discuss mailing list
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