Contact infrastructure@ for help was RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
--On Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:58 PM +0100 Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. Just as a point of information, if any project needs technical assistance with something, please don't hesitate to email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Greg Stein wrote, On 10/06/2003 21.01: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:58:16PM +0100, Danny Angus wrote: ... Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. Bah. ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug :-) Cry4Help Release the baby! /Cry4Help ;-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
So we get James _and_ Subversion brought into production for the ASF on the same day? ;-) SCNR Henning On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 21:12, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. Bah. ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug Only if it is ready for the ASF to replace CVS. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:00 AM Greg Stein wrote, On 10/06/2003 21.01: ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug :-) Cry4Help Release the baby! /Cry4Help ;-) Once Karl has finished up the branch/tag support in cvs2svn we can do some experimenting with converting cvs repositories. This is the major obstacle, the price of not being able to look at history, unless going back to some cvs graveyard, when moving to svn at this point in time. Hence the wait for cvs2svn to be finished. And then there is the community backing. Each project has to have enough people wanting to move away from cvs, over to subversion. I haven't done any polling, but I've a hunch that it won't be an objectionless transition for all. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SVN (was: RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak)
I'm all +1 on moving our repositories forward, but I've got used to some of the nice tools surrounding SVN that I don't want to miss. And then there is the question of things like maven supporting SVN just as well as CVS. For bk there is some sort of CVS compatible read-only view into the repository. Is this possible for SVN, too? Regards Henning On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 10:16, Sander Striker wrote: From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:00 AM Greg Stein wrote, On 10/06/2003 21.01: ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug :-) Cry4Help Release the baby! /Cry4Help ;-) Once Karl has finished up the branch/tag support in cvs2svn we can do some experimenting with converting cvs repositories. This is the major obstacle, the price of not being able to look at history, unless going back to some cvs graveyard, when moving to svn at this point in time. Hence the wait for cvs2svn to be finished. And then there is the community backing. Each project has to have enough people wanting to move away from cvs, over to subversion. I haven't done any polling, but I've a hunch that it won't be an objectionless transition for all. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SVN (was: RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak)
One of the previous concerns was tool support. Since then, we have SVN capability in ViewCVS, and there is also an SVN plugin for Eclipse and IDEA, and several GUIs. SVN itself has been stable for a long while; the only real concern [for the ASF] is the related tool support. For Maven compatibility... somebody will just have to code it up. I believe somebody out there has done an Ant task for SVN, but I dunno what the status of that is, or whether it has seen its way back to the Ant folks. SVN easily supports anonymous, read-only access (and without the nonsense of needing to supply some arbitrary name/password like CVS). There isn't a CVS proxy, however. Does BK actually proxy a CVS connection to the bk repos, or do they just mirror changes into a cvs repos? Cheers, -g On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 10:34:54AM +0200, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: I'm all +1 on moving our repositories forward, but I've got used to some of the nice tools surrounding SVN that I don't want to miss. And then there is the question of things like maven supporting SVN just as well as CVS. For bk there is some sort of CVS compatible read-only view into the repository. Is this possible for SVN, too? Regards Henning On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 10:16, Sander Striker wrote: From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:00 AM Greg Stein wrote, On 10/06/2003 21.01: ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug :-) Cry4Help Release the baby! /Cry4Help ;-) Once Karl has finished up the branch/tag support in cvs2svn we can do some experimenting with converting cvs repositories. This is the major obstacle, the price of not being able to look at history, unless going back to some cvs graveyard, when moving to svn at this point in time. Hence the wait for cvs2svn to be finished. And then there is the community backing. Each project has to have enough people wanting to move away from cvs, over to subversion. I haven't done any polling, but I've a hunch that it won't be an objectionless transition for all. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: SVN (was: RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak)
From: Greg Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:31 AM One of the previous concerns was tool support. Since then, we have SVN capability in ViewCVS, and there is also an SVN plugin for Eclipse and IDEA, and several GUIs. SVN itself has been stable for a long while; the only real concern [for the ASF] is the related tool support. What would be helpful is if we can identify which tools are currently used, and, if SVN support for them is not available, if they either can do without or code it up... For Maven compatibility... somebody will just have to code it up. I believe somebody out there has done an Ant task for SVN, but I dunno what the status of that is, or whether it has seen its way back to the Ant folks. SVN easily supports anonymous, read-only access (and without the nonsense of needing to supply some arbitrary name/password like CVS). Ahum... we do if we want to have finer grained access control. Unless you just committed something to httpd-2.0 that I happened to miss ;) :). There isn't a CVS proxy, however. Does BK actually proxy a CVS connection to the bk repos, or do they just mirror changes into a cvs repos? They mirror the changes. We could do the same using a trigger in post-commit. Whether this is desireable is another question. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SVN (was: RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak)
FWIW, Subversion is working quite well for us in a Corporate Intranet. Blending modules for content management (that can be edited in WYSIWYG form, either in-situ or in off-line modes) and others for code make it a very compelling replacement for CVS at the project level, and Wikis at the 'easy' collaborative docs level. The name/password stuff works well, though we make life difficult for ourselves by throwing SecurIDs into the design too. In a couple of years time, using SVN as an all-encompassing CM RCS tool will be a common story, if not a best practice. - Paul --- Greg Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the previous concerns was tool support. Since then, we have SVN capability in ViewCVS, and there is also an SVN plugin for Eclipse and IDEA, and several GUIs. SVN itself has been stable for a long while; the only real concern [for the ASF] is the related tool support. For Maven compatibility... somebody will just have to code it up. I believe somebody out there has done an Ant task for SVN, but I dunno what the status of that is, or whether it has seen its way back to the Ant folks. SVN easily supports anonymous, read-only access (and without the nonsense of needing to supply some arbitrary name/password like CVS). There isn't a CVS proxy, however. Does BK actually proxy a CVS connection to the bk repos, or do they just mirror changes into a cvs repos? Cheers, -g On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 10:34:54AM +0200, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: I'm all +1 on moving our repositories forward, but I've got used to some of the nice tools surrounding SVN that I don't want to miss. And then there is the question of things like maven supporting SVN just as well as CVS. For bk there is some sort of CVS compatible read-only view into the repository. Is this possible for SVN, too? Regards Henning On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 10:16, Sander Striker wrote: From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:00 AM Greg Stein wrote, On 10/06/2003 21.01: ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug __ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: SVN (was: RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak)
What would be helpful is if we can identify which tools are currently used The CVS command line over SSH, obviously. TortoiseCVS. WinCVS. We could all survey our projects, or put up a Wiki page to collect what people are actively using. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
So we get James _and_ Subversion brought into production for the ASF on the same day? ;-) Subversion is closer to deployment within the ASF than James. The primary (e-mail) need with the ASF is for a mailing list manager. That is a weak area right now for James, but one that is actively being improved. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 06:06:54PM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote: ... Some negative aspects of @author would be the impression that the author owns the code, and reluctance on the part of others to make changes to someone else's code. The @author tag implies _authorship_. If we had an @owns tag, I'd fully agree with you. If some people can't distinguish between authorship and ownership, that's their business. I personally find it interesting/useful to know who @author'ed the current file. As for CVS logs, they are rather ephemeral things in my experience. Whenever a file is renamed/repackaged, the history is lost. Sometimes CVS modules are re-imported (as with Avalon, and xml-cocoon - cocoon-2.1) and everything is lost. --Jeff --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
As for CVS logs, they are rather ephemeral things in my experience. Whenever a file is renamed/repackaged, the history is lost. Sometimes CVS modules are re-imported (as with Avalon, and xml-cocoon - cocoon-2.1) and everything is lost. This isn't necessary, it is possible to keep histories for move and name refactored files. d.
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:45PM +0100, Danny Angus wrote: As for CVS logs, they are rather ephemeral things in my experience. Whenever a file is renamed/repackaged, the history is lost. Sometimes CVS modules are re-imported (as with Avalon, and xml-cocoon - cocoon-2.1) and everything is lost. This isn't necessary, it is possible to keep histories for move and name refactored files. Yes, and isn't it fun. C:\ ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright (c) 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE (turbo) #0: Sun Jun 1 12:54:01 PDT 2003 Welcome to FreeBSD! This is an Apache Software Foundation server. Please see http://www.apache.org/dev/ for more information. bash-2.04$ bash-2.04$ dir bash: dir: command not found bash-2.04$ c: bash: c:: command not found bash-2.04$ hlep bash: hlep: command not found bash-2.04$ help ... bash-2.04$ cd /home/cvs bash-2.04$ ls ... bash-2.04$ cd jakarta-flibble/src/java/org/apache/flibble bash-2.04$ copy Frobnicator.java ReFrobnicator.java bash: copy: command not found bash-2.04$ cp Frobnicator.java ReFronbicator.jav bash-2.04$ ^H^H^H^C bash-2.04$ cp Frobnicator.java ReFrobnicator.java bash-2.04$ rm Fronbicca*.* rm: ReFronbicca*: No such file or directory bash-2.04$ rm Frob* * bash-2.04$ ^H^H bash-2.04$ ls bash-2.04$ undo bash: undo: command not found bash-2.04$ undelete bash: undelete: command not found bash-2.04$ hlep undo bash: hlep: command not found --Jeff d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On 10/06/2003 14:05 Jeff Turner wrote: Yes, and isn't it fun. [snip] LOL You should check TortoiseCVS ;-) /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Ben Hyde escribió: a big +1 on the whole (big one plays nice with my comment, see below) (...) But unlike a piece of capital equipment an open source project is a lot more than it's CVS repositories. It's much more social construct than that. Economists don't really like to think about social constructs; they don't play well with their naive mathematics. I remember casually hearing in Sciences Faculty Restaurant (Sciences was just close to Economics in the Universidad Autonoma de Madrid) a teacher of Economics, teaching mathematics to the poor guys, talking to a colleague something like: I don't really buy into this crap of having an indefinite number of real numbers between each pair of them. Do you? He was so serious and it was so clueless I felt bad about it. I was like 20, just finishing my studies, and I still believed that teachers were superior people. My thesis director there (a very good teacher), in Quantum Chemistry, used to say that Economics people lived in the safety of oversimplification through MacLaughlin and Taylor series expansions, and all of their conclusions were only valid infinitesimally close to zero. This is, BTW, true of most Engineering disciplines. This is no longer true in Economics Research, but it has permeated most of the current Economics common sense, as you say. - ben -- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Jeff, Yes, and isn't it fun. --fun snipped-- ;-) So should we only do things that are fun? Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. d.
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Danny Angus escribió: Jeff, Yes, and isn't it fun. --fun snipped-- ;-) So should we only do things that are fun? Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. I must be a weirdo, but I actually prefer command line over file browsers. Plus command and filename completion makes it actually faster for a lot of tasks. Specially for slow remote sessions. d. -- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Ben Hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... There is no clearing house were I can exchange one performance fix for two clear explanations. LOL! If you want to talk Xalan, I'm sure I could scrape up a couple of clear explanations if you have some performance enhancements to contribute... Actually, I can see plenty of individual reasons we all contribute, either unique to each of us or simply a common enjoyment in doing good code. But along with Ben, I don't think you can generalize or turn this into a strict economic discussion. And as for the ego, I like the fact that while the ASF doesn't prevent people from leaving @authors in or trumpeting their own book or press release, we certainly don't promote it. (Personally, I think to @author or not to @author should be decided by each project as they wish) The thing I like best about the ASF and our license is that anyone can use our projects freely, as long as they give credit to the ASF collectively. This is both good enough to give me a personal ego boost, and is a godo way to show the world what great products we make and what vibrant communities we try to build. - Shane - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:58:16PM +0100, Danny Angus wrote: Jeff, Yes, and isn't it fun. --fun snipped-- ;-) So should we only do things that are fun? Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. Bah. ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug :-) -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On Tuesday, June 10, 2003, at 03:01 PM, Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:58:16PM +0100, Danny Angus wrote: Jeff, Yes, and isn't it fun. --fun snipped-- ;-) So should we only do things that are fun? Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. Bah. ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug :-) -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ Nope that didn't seem to help - ben $ telnet svn.apache.org 80 Trying 208.185.179.13... Connected to svn.apache.org. Escape character is '^]'. dir c: dir c: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN htmlhead title400 Bad Request/title /headbody h1Bad Request/h1 pYour browser sent a request that this server could not understand.br / /p hr / addressApache/2.1.0-dev (Unix) SVN/0.23.0+ DAV/2 Server at icarus.apache.org Port 80/address /body/html Connection closed by foreign host. $ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Moving and re-naming files in an ssh terminal session is not crazily graphical nor easy enough for a 4 year old, but I bet there are enough people in Apache who can do it without sweating that it is, IMO, a poor excuse for throwing away useful information. Bah. ObPlug Use Subversion. /ObPlug Only if it is ready for the ASF to replace CVS. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote: I suggest that you go back to your normal policy of ignoring Dvorak's existence. :-) Very big grin FWIW, James, Avalon and other projects recently decided to remove the @author tags from the source files. There was some disagreement in the I noticed that - and applaude/am seriously impressed that you guys having the guts and community spirit. Dw. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Vanity is the driving force behind OSS, as is greed behind closed-source software. Try to use someone's OSS code without attributing original authorship, and you will see how quickly your quaint community devolves into harsh campaigns of public remonstration towards the violator. It is of primary importance that original authorship always be identified. My opinion is slightly different than Danny and Noel's, and somewhat ironic since the 3 of us are aged members of the James community (that just removed the author tag). To quote Gorden Gecko, Greed is good. Altruism is a tenuous motivator (just about every non-profit I donate to/work with is hard-up because altruistic donations since the recession started). Not to pick on Noel, but he is driven to get James to be the mail server the ASF uses, working tirelessly to improve features and scalability. If he was solely motivated by altruism, he might get tired and realize the current mail system already handles Apache's needs. We work and get paid for that, and that's one of a very constant motivator. Greed, vanity, and fame are very pajoritive terms for what is a good, healthy instinct of self-preservation. Obviously you want a job that you LOVE doing, and I think that's a factor of OSS in that we have more freedom. This is _not_ the hallmark of a communal environment; it is indicative of an environment in which everything is okay as long as people get credit for what they have contributed to a project. In other words, people in this community are not driven by altruism over greed, but by fame over obscurity. And it beg's some interesting questions. Though there is a nucleus of thruth - how does this mesh with groups like Apache, where we like to think that the longer term goal, and the code base surviving individual coders, are paramount. IMHO, Apache has some of the best rules for a community of wildly passionate self-interested individuals. :) For my money, Apache projects (and ASF-style licensing) are more successful over the long-haul (than GPL-style licensing) because Apache accepts and incorporates the economic system that most software development exists within, rather than trying to dislodge it. -- Serge Knystautas President Lokitech software . strategy . design http://www.lokitech.com p. 301.656.5501 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
Not to pick on Noel, but he is driven to get James to be the mail server the ASF uses, working tirelessly to improve features and scalability. If he was solely motivated by altruism, he might get tired and realize the current mail system already handles Apache's needs. LOL No, being capable of being the ASF mail server is a goal because of its volume and mission critical import. If James can handle that work, then it proves itself for use in many other environments. It is good to have goals. :-) I agree with your concluding assessment related why the ASL is a key part of the ASF success story. It encourages and permits corporate collaboration in ways that other licenses do not. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
On 9/06/2003 17:08 Noel J. Bergman wrote: FWIW, James, Avalon and other projects recently decided to remove the @author tags from the source files. There was some disagreement in the Avalon list, there was none on the James list. We do try to give people recognition in the CVS commit logs, change summaries, and the We Are page. I don't know whether this was a symptom, a remedy, or a cause. Isn't the fact these tags needed to be removed some telltale? I'm just wondering, since you seem to advocate this as a good community pattern. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The cash of our lives / Dvorak
I don't know whether this was a symptom, a remedy, or a cause. Isn't the fact these tags needed to be removed some telltale? I'm just wondering, since you seem to advocate this as a good community pattern. I fully admit that I suggested it after seeing what was going on in Avalon, and no one in James had a problem. We removed them from the development trunk, and as we change files in the stable branch, we try to remember to remove them as we go. Many (most?) @author tags, even in the Java distribution, have become nothing more than legacy markers. Some of the people listed as the author of a class aren't even employed at Sun anymore. Even if they are, they likely aren't the ones still maintaining or developing that code. Perhaps we don't have access to the internal source control system for Java, but everyone can browse the CVS for an ASF project to see who has been doing what to any code for which an @author tag would matter. Some negative aspects of @author would be the impression that the author owns the code, and reluctance on the part of others to make changes to someone else's code. Positive aspects of @author are ... umm ... ? Speaking of good community pattern[s] ... what are considered good and bad patterns? That would be an interesting discussion, and perhaps something to record for incubator. What problems have people encountered in their ASF communities? What has worked/not worked? What forms of behavior are acceptable/unacceptable? Can technical debate go too far? How do you resolve differences/conflict? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
