Push-to-talk, at least the version currently marketed by Sprint/Nextel on
cellphones, is based on Motorola's proprietary iDEN network; I don't know that
there's a great deal of information available on using iDEN, plus it'd require
a dedicated additional network stack beyond GSM...
On 1/17/07 5:17 PM, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:57 am, Richard Franks wrote:
I disagree - VoIP via WiFi is an obvious evolution rather than
revolutionary.
But you're looking at it from a geek's point of view instead of a
typical end-user's point of view.
Yes, Bluetooth's PAN profile is intended to enable pico/mesh networking...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Koen Kooi
Sent: Thu 1/18/2007 10:41 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED
On 1/18/07 11:23 AM, Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You still don't get it.
Y' know, you're right. I don't. I clearly am not intelligent enough to
appreciate the worldview-shaking impact of saving a few bucks on my cell
phone bill. I don't suppose further repetitions of this
On 1/19/07 8:20 PM, Austin Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Visual voicemail requires back-end support from the carrier.
Think like a hacker. Why couldn't we scrape it?
Um, because, all other things being equal, you'd have to parse out an audio
stream to get at the information you'd need...?
On 1/20/07 1:18 PM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 20/01/07, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dave Crossland schreef:
Can the FIC marketting department call it 'the OpenMoko GNU/Linux
Distribution'?
How much GNU software must be present to call it a GNU/linux distribution? Do
I would like to propose the creation of alt.flame.open-source-license.
I See A Great Need.
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What is the rationale behind the exclusion of WiFi?
The long and short of it is that there¹s no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip
available which has an open driver, or at least there wasn¹t when the
hardware design got nailed down. It¹s too late in the process to add one
now, but maybe in some
On 1/21/07 5:52 AM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wouldn't say the API is as bad as you do, but
it's certainly *different*.
Only from Linux. It's actually very similar to the pre-OS X Mac OS APIs...
Making legacy apps written for the Garnet OS (née Palm OS) run on Linux
is
Done:
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/QuestionsAndAnswers
Hurray! The power of the open source community!
=D
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Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it
means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about
GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them.
That's nice. I simply doubt that they'll be making cell phone purchasing
decisions based on that
I like to be accurate and know what I am talking about, and I like
others to be too :-)
It simply never ends, does it?
Feel entirely free to call it GNU/Linux, Bob/Linux, Jim/Linux or
whatever you like, okay. But _please_ stop proselytizing.
Have you ever noticed how folks with a zealot-like
Feel entirely free to call it GNU/Linux, Bob/Linux, Jim/Linux or
whatever you like, okay. But _please_ stop proselytizing.
Dude, why so prickly? I am not sure why this discussion is making you
so agitated..? We are having a discussion, and if you want it to stop,
just... stop? :-)
I'm not
Gosh, why does this fail to surprise me?
Didn't you get to say your piece already? Why don't you harass the Ubuntu
folks with this, hm? There are many more folks calling it Linux than
GNU/Linux, and very few people who seem to care strongly about your
over-developed sense of history and ethics,
Could you just drop this line of discussion, or pursue it off-list...? If
they refer to it as Linux they'll be in line with pretty much every major
_Linux_ distribution out there.
On 1/24/07 6:11 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Sean,
On 23/01/07, David Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 1/24/07 9:51 AM, Declan Naughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/24/07, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Better still, tell you what: since you're all about the ethics here, go
and get the folks at GNU to change the name of their system to GNU/Mach
and _then_ come back to talk
On 1/24/07 10:20 AM, Declan Naughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as I am aware, OpenMoko is not using the GNU/CMU Mach kernel..
No, they're certainly not. However, GNU _is_ and they're failing to give
appropriate credit to the principal developer of their system. So on what
basis are you
On 1/24/07 11:03 AM, Declan Naughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/24/07, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/24/07 10:20 AM, Declan Naughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as I am aware, OpenMoko is not using the GNU/CMU Mach kernel..
No, they're certainly not. However, GNU
On 1/24/07 11:47 AM, Koen Kooi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd certainly push for gstreamer...
As would I, but sometimes you've just gotta get things out the door...
I'd assume that when FIC gets hardware out, someone'll make it run gstreamer
in pretty short order.
Linux Organisation membership and organisation politics is not my
business, but from the linux-user point of view it is a little
confusing that OpenMoko/Neo1973 isn't mentioned here:
http://old.linux-foundation.org/lab_activities/mobile_linux/mli
Not too confusing. It's not a recent page, and the
Two guys I know invested time into porting their game from PalmOS to
phones. It didn't sell at all but was pirated quite a lot.
Proprietary software developers often refer to unauthorised copying as
piracy.
This terms implies that copying is ethically equivalent to attacking
ships on the high
Not too confusing. It's not a recent page, and the information on there was
provided by members (of which FIC is not currently one, although we've
invited
them to participate...)
Please don't take this a meaning anything other than we have zero free time
Oh, believe me, I understand
Grey areas.
Actually, I don't think it's grey at all. The decision maker, as far as how a
work can be published and/or sold, is the copyright holder.
Copyright is the _right_ to _copy_. If you're not the copyright holder, and you
haven't been granted a right to copy by the copyright holder,
On 1/26/07 10:33 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The original point was: It doesn't make sense to equate copying
digital information with stealing physical objects.
No...? If you were to come into possession tomorrow of a copy of the
yet-to-be-published seventh Harry Potter book,
On 1/26/07 11:01 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If it's not the author's wish that the software be freely
copy-able, which is certainly a desire the author's quite
entitled to have
I am less certain, and judging from most people's actions, I think you
are in quite a minority
He's not an idiot, he's just being bluntly vocal.
Sorry, David, _I'm_ bluntly vocal, that was simply abusive.
There's a difference, but I've never known either one to speed up a hardware
platform project.
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On 1/26/07 10:47 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your argument may be 'but every software for the phone really should
be free - people will write it'. However, if someone hasn't come up
with an absolutely free, modifiable mapping software, I should just be
able to get the
It may seem obvious to you that copyright law is about protecting
authors...
Only because it says so, right there in the US Constitution: Congress is
granted the right to enact statutes To promote the Progress of Science and
useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors
Here's my understanding of this comment, to clear things up: the story
is that he was in front of a really enthusiastic crowd, and the
comment was a joke about the way the crowd was looking up to him.
Totally not an arrogant statement. Even if I don't agree with every
one of his other opinions, I
This is simply untrue.
The fact is, as originally stated, that the BSD preceded the GPL (by two years
or ten) and that free or open source software certainly existed well before
the FSF did. I received system distributions for DECsystem-10s in the 70s,
entirely in source form...
The freedom
On 1/27/07 3:33 AM, Mikhail Gusarov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Please don't think your opponents are ignoramus. Nearly everyone here
knows very well both the position of BSD people, and essences of GNU
homilies.
Personally, I'd be a lot more impressed if Mr. Crossland were able to
articulate
On 1/27/07 3:26 AM, Jon Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 16:21 +0100, Harald Welte wrote:
On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 07:29:47AM -0500, Richard Franks wrote:
then there is no copyright issue as the contributors have implicitly
put their words into the public domain?
This
If I am free to beat someone up that does not mean the sum total of
freedom for society is increased.
Sorry, pointlessness alert. There's _never_ a freedom to beat someone up,
and--outside of the very limited contexts of, e.g., law enforcement or military
activities--no one can grant one, so
If others take code under the BSDL and put it into a closed system, freedom
doesn't go away at all. It just doesn't necessarily extend any further.
It has gone away for the users of that system.
...who are, of course, being forced to use said system at gunpoint.
Really, what's it to you? If
How are you less free as a result?
Apple's iPhone, for instance, contains open source software, but
because it's totally reliant on un-free software I can't add VoIP via
WiFi to it for instance, effectively nullifying the freedom aspect of
the free software component for its users. All the
As you point out, with Apple taking BSD software and 'competing
against BSD', the market share for vanilla BSD is reduced. You can't
however know whether in the medium-long term this is an 'overall good'
which sped up Freedom through other interactions in the future or an
overall bad. Apple geeks
(offlist)
Not.
I would really appeciate some evidence of this...
Fine. You're correct that the GPL and the BSD came out in the same year. In any
case, there was, as I've said, plenty of free software (although few
licenses) a decade and more before any of this.
Now that I've agreed that I
This all seems reasonable and appropriate as a way to move forward...
In fact, there's no particular real-world danger of a legal case. First of
all, no one stands to make or lose any money on the content in question, so any
action would be purely symbolic.
Secondly, the way to start if one
On 1/28/07 10:15 AM, Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, David Schlesinger wrote:
I still don't see how trying to limit people's choices is more free than
letting them make their own choices.
You are leaving out one important issue here. The free market is in fact
On 1/29/07 3:44 AM, Jan Van Vlaenderen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
When the GPS senses you are zigzagging on a street, the phone could shutdown
your engine too :-)
Even people that are not able to drive a car can be stopped.
A lot less problems in my town on sunday morning ;-)
You¹d have to be
My recollection was a little out of date. Units without WAAS correction seem
to get something like 10 to 25 meters resolution... Units with correction do
better...
See http://www.doylesdartden.com/gis/gpstest.htm
On 1/29/07 6:57 AM, Graham Auld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Original
Speaking as someone who travels (a _lot_) widespread and configurable
support for time zones would be a very attractive feature. For example, if
there's a portion of the status bar (or equivalent) that's
user-configurable, being able to throw a second widget or gadget or whatever
in there to
On 1/30/07 8:31 AM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller writes:
Isn't very complex either - Linux system time is UTC and can be
synced through nntp while network access exists.
Do you mean NTP?
What, you don't set your watch by USENET...?
cellphones will be able to do...
-Original Message-
From: Sean Moss-Pultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 1/31/2007 5:46 PM
To: David Schlesinger; Jon Phillips; Harald Welte
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; Robert Michel; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Suresh
Kumar Sugguna
Subject: Re: Please
Now, that doesn't mean that I am a representation of the *average* user...
I promise you, you're not.
A _person_ is intelligent; _people_ are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and
you know it.--Tommy Lee Jones as K in _Men in Black_
We
*must* be able to easily/effectively communicate with
I will be. (You're pointing to the ETEL 2006 pages. The 2007 npages start at
http://wiki.oreillynet.com/etel2007/
and the Who's Attending page is at
http://wiki.oreillynet.com/etel2007/index.cgi?PlanningtoAttend
)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jon Phillips
Same here.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Sean Moss-Pultz
Sent: Sat 2/3/2007 9:53 PM
To: Jon Phillips
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OpenMoko at Oreilly Emerging Telephony Conference
On Sat, 2007-02-03 at 16:45 -0800, Jon
On 2/11/07 9:14 AM, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(Wow, I actually partially answered a question. I'm only 13, what the
heck?)
Dude!
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Congratulations!
It might be worth mentioning (or not; I'm going to do it anyway) that the
Hiker Application Framework, which ACCESS released shortly before Christmas
as an open source project under the MPLv1.1 license, has a new home as well:
www.hikerproject.org.
We haven't yet got all of
I'm doing this to spare Sean the pain. This is really no different than the
Can't you just add WiFi? discussion.
This is reality and the laws of physics speaking: please pay attention.
... what are the chances of getting a camera? ^_^
Slimmer that slim to none. If Sean and the FIC folks have
This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO.
I think you should go right out and build your _own_ phone. Tell us all about
it when you get done.
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I've already registered, and paid, for this...
=/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 2/21/2007 4:42 PM
To: OpenMoko -- OpenMoko
Subject: Emerging Telephony Conference Discount (fwd)
Seems that O'Reilly will offer a 40% discount to a
If your PC is in range, it would be easy to send
a message to your PC which could have an attached
X10 transmitter to control your lights, or other
appliances. You could set up a X10 theme through
your PC to gradually increase the lights, turn on
your coffee maker etc when the openmoko
...Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.
I wish there were a way to apply this to hardware,
without the costs being astronomical.
Unfortunately, this turns out not to be completely true, even for
software. Given enough eyeballs, most localized programming errors are
fairly shallow, but
I am sure Jobs and company are not blind to
the strength of open source software and the
boon it would provide if they made a freely
available dev kit for the phone.
As someone who worked at Apple for ten years, I can assure you that, for
the most part, Jobs and company haven't got the
So by using fingers instead of a stylus we're not talking about the
same use case anyway.
That's certainly not clear to me.
Are you policing this project for violations?
Not at all, that's a silly idea; as I've said, I simply _am_ obligated
to point out when a trademark held by my employer is
You'll need to find some hardware to run it on, the Neo1973 won't
function in Japan. It's a GSM phone, and Japan's system is pretty much
completely WCDMA...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Huang
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:10
I wouldn't have imagined I'd see a less productive contribution than the
_rest_ of this discussion, but I guess it goes to show how mistaken one can
be.
I won't be hurt if you don't use GPS.
On 11/8/07 8:08 AM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thursday 08 November 2007 16:44:45
Very true. An extremely small amount of actual source code, none of it
especially useful, was released with Android. The core libraries, as
well as the Dalvik virtual machine, the tools, etc., were only released
in binary form. The only sources provided were
- the kernel
- WebKit
- the QEMU-based
Worth mentioning in this context is that all this openness will be
limited to devices which can pass Verizon's test criteria, which are, so
far, unspecified.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William
Weinberg
Sent: Wednesday, November 28,
If you look I specifically said VOIP over wifi.
OpenMoko phones WILL allow this!
My unlocked Nokia E65 also allows this.
As he said, it's a carrier issue, not a phone issue.
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I'd get in touch with the Linux Foundation/Software Freedom Law Center
and discuss their patent commons with them. Write me off-list, Sean,
and I can get you in touch with the right folks, I think...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean
http://www.patent-commons.org/ is the one that I'm aware of ...
This is what I was referring to...
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Something I saw on my trip to London last month, in a side street just
off Kingsway near the Holburn tube station...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stonemirror/2206831846/
Enjoy!
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