Ken Young wrote:
> My two cents: If I were dictator of the gta02-core team (instead of
> someone who doesn't even contribute), I would repurpose the device as a
> GPS PDA. I would remove all the radio components except for the WiFi,
> and try to optimize for the longest battery life possible.
Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
> Is it unsuitable for a phone because of power inefficiency?
> Can be the "ARM Cortex-A8 600Mhz" used in a future phone?
There are many component choices for future phones. Things to consider
when choosing chips include:
- do they fit the intended purpose ?
- are they open
Michael Pilgermann wrote:
> the OpenMokoProjects page is back online - thanks to whoever did this.
That would be Joachim. I'll add my thanks too !
Unfortunately, there still appear to be problems with accessing
certain directories, and nobody seems to have an idea (so far)
how to solve these.
>
Michael Pilgermann wrote:
> - for the gforge page itself: I am thankful for all the explainations
> about responsilities regarding the site; however, nobody has yet came
> up to say: it is me to deal with these problems.
The implied meaning of these explanations was of course that for any
prospect
Dave Ball wrote:
> What's the yard stick for measuring against here? I.e. are we talking
> about one-off from digikey/farnell, samples direct from the
> manufacturer, or limited-run (couple of hundreds) quantities?
For the full process from R&D to mass production, you need to have
channels for
pike wrote:
> And today is a nice day to release what I have
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Thone
Looks great ! Finally a UI that's friendly also with users who are
hackers ;-)
It would be nice to avoid modal dialogs, like the one in
$TH_MENU_SMSREAD. Why not simply remember the last m
undrwater wrote:
> I'm wondering if this is a re-badged product discussed here previously, or
> something relatively new?
Looks like something new. It isn't quite clear to me what semantics
they attach to "Open", in particular whether the openness is supposed
to come from the mere fact of being an
Christoph Pulster wrote:
> project customers: gone, disappointed of all the bugs and problems
Whether the bugs and problem really bother project customers should
depend a lot on what their specific plans are. E.g., if they plan to
have their own user interface anyway, they wouldn't care much about
I wrote:
> So I'm not exactly surprised that you don't have hordes of project
> customers banging at your door, begging for more FreeRunners.
Perhaps I should clarify that I don't mean to make fun of your
situation. We're all in the same boat here.
But I think it's important to be aware that this
Christoph Pulster wrote:
> As you already said, companiess who built a solution based on the
> Openmoko need a reliable product AND a reliable company behind.
Hmm, I think you're right that there has to be a company that
buffers the customer from the increasingly chaotic (*) "inner
layers". Howe
Paul Wise wrote:
> Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there
> isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs.
There is. It's called the "backup battery". It's the small "button"
next to the front speaker. Strangely, this battery has a very
pronounced death wish. I
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> We also had many discussions with project customers and basically they
> were happy with the device. And would prefer it over any consumer
> oriented device.
Are there actually any stories of project customers whose project
made it past the R&D stage and who d
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> In business strategy planning it is quite common to separate e.g.
> "consumer", "project", "service", "solution" business types and
> markets because they have quite different requirements and attitudes
Yes, I was familiar with the concept but I didn't know
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> day. openmoko never made it to be big enough to continue - and ye once you get
> big enough, the kind of thing you talk about no longer make business sense (as
> you are busy shopping around to telcos who will order millions of devices).
> catch 22 :-S
This is where an Op
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> too late for that. the others are in on the game. and now being "open enough"
> is all that's needed. window of opportunity for om and the likes has closed -
> or at the best is very close to closed.
I think the advantage is still there, it's just harder to communicate.
A
Christoph Pulster wrote:
> Good luck. Maddog made a lot words about the Brasilian universitary
> which should continue the Openmoko project. Nothing happend.
I think it's Sao Paulo you're talking about. USP never promised to
continue the project (even though the press may have mis-interpreted
th
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> if it's hard to communicate - you don't have a sales point.
Yup, that's why I wouldn't belabour that angle for now. Whether and
when the time for selling on open software alone will come depends
on how constrained people feel with the non-open choices, and how
many indire
Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
> But if you are making your phone out of "beginning of life" components
> that other people are also using and that have a bit of life to them,
> you can sometimes get some components without having to buy 10 million
> of them
Hmm, there is an opportunity around "begi
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
> Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:
Close :-) I've been told that the case originally came from a
phone intended for the Chinese Olympics. The rounded form would
mimick the outline of the Olympic ri
Kosa wrote:
> I ain't no expert on this, but since iPad is being a succesful "mobil
> device", we could give a chance for a BIGGER Freerunner.
The joy of the Open Design Hardware concept - anyone can design their
own mutant :)
> There's a huge market for the big touchscreen devices.
Let's see ho
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> no news there and no solution to is unless you design your own
> gpu... good luck. :))
I'd worry a lot more about GUI and applications than about any bit
of hardware. Pads in one form or another have been around for a
long time. So far, they weren't particularly successfu
[ Let's use a meaningful subject. ]
Christoph Pulster wrote:
> The format "Pad" is no new idea. The industrial product range use it
> since many years.
This is, by the way, one sector likely to be able to limit the
complexity of tasks, as I described in my previous post. In
fact, the possibilit
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> That also raises more general questions:
I asked Joachim. I hope I got the details right:
- Openmoko Inc. still pays for the domain and the openmoko.org
servers.
- The openmoko.org domain is owned by Openmoko Inc.
- the name servers serving the openmoko.org d
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> Some fast guys were
> able to copy many files from the Googe cache but the Wiki war mostly
> lost.
Somewhat unrelated, but I wonder how the git-wiki projects are doing.
http://github.com/minad/git-wiki/network is supposed to give a clue
where the action is, bu
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> We [...] pay Gismo a monthly salary to maintain things for us.
Thanks for clarifying and thanks for your continued support of
the Openmoko community !
- Werner
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community@lists.openmoko.org
ht
Bartlomiej Zimon wrote:
> I want ask why we not use execution in place?
At the risk of maximizing technical accuracy while minimizing
usefulness of the response, this is of course precisely what
happens when you boot from NOR :-)
- Werner
___
Openmoko
Christoph Mair wrote:
> we are proud to release a hardware extension for our beloved Freerunner: a
> navigation board!
Very impressive. Congratulations !
I guess the next level would be to make a board that fits into one
of the Embedded Air (tm) pockets also have some RF transceiver ;-)
- Werne
Christoph Mair wrote:
> Well, I've got a lot of other crazy ideas to fill these pockets, I just don't
> have enough time to realize them all.
Wow, I would have never imagined that anyone else could experience
this problem, too ;-)
> Do you have any specific requirements which I
> should take in
Christoph Mair wrote:
> Soldering experience is definitively required. The QFN chips (gyros and
> compass) are somewhat difficult to handle, but you can "reflow"-solder
> them in a pizza oven.
An approach I found quite efficient for occasional DIY of QFN parts
on home-made PCBs is to apply a gene
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> There is now a new Wiki page for the project:
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid
Kewl. But where's the duct tape ? :-)
> I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice
> design. The main reason is that we can't
steve wrote:
> Werner doesn't even know he was the inspiration.
Oh, *now* I'm curious :-)
- Werner
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John Lee wrote:
> opkg-target update
> opkg-target install libjana-dev
Sure beats the manual approach :-)
A little while ago, I built a program that uses SDL, and this is what
I came up with:
for n in \
libsdl-1.2-0_1.2.9-r5_armv4t.ipk libsdl-1.2-dev_1.2.9-r5_armv4t.ipk \
libsdl-ttf_2.0.3-r0
Rod Whitby wrote:
> And therein starts the decline of Openmoko application availability into
> the poor practices of the windows world ...
;-) It's really two different usage scenarios: one is the "nice and tidy
distribution", the other is getting something to build and, sometimes,
to disseminat
Andy Green wrote:
> Hi yourself... I guess you must have started using Openmoko build system
> then because last time we spoke about it you were avoiding it same as me
> - -- for the same reasons.
I think you misunderstood me there - I wasn't referring to myself when
I mentioned the angelic patien
Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote:
> it is a new virtual terminal for Openmoko, with a complete fullscreen
> keyboard and sound.
Wow, I love this idea ! Alas, it looks a little slow. (Haven't tried to
run it yet, just looked at the videos.)
Here's an idea how you could perhaps make it much faster:
A
Helge Hafting wrote:
> Hm. But the glamo supports _some_ format. Will X11 be able to take
> advantage of that, if the app is smart and request exactly the subsets
> of blending operations/dataformats that the glamo can do?
That would be a question for the X11 gurus.
> I have such a script for sm
Steve Mosher wrote:
> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware requires
> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software
> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
> that followed a strict waterfall model.
Hmm, I think on
Lothar Behrens wrote:
> I mentioned KICAD (http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/DE:Main_Page
KiCad is probably the Open Source EDA system that's closest to
being up to the task. But I still wonder if it can really do it.
Don't get me wrong. I use KiCad for everything I do privately
and I
Marcel wrote:
> That's the selling point for us more-or-less nerds. But the average
> oh-the-iphone-has-so-nice-bling-bling-user cannot see the value an open phone
> has for us [...]
I think they see it, indirectly. If the openness attracts developers,
they build things. First they build things
Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> There's a way to detect buzzfix by rapidly switching on and off MICBIAS and
> testing if you "hear" some buzz when recording from builtin mic. Werner has
> created a small program to do the switching job.
I'm actually not sure if this approach works. You can hear the
~
blokkie wrote:
> some of my collegues at work ask why the neo looks like a beer opener .
>
> Was this part of the design ?
Seems that those designers didn't get out much - they missed this
obvious feature.
As far as I know, the case design predates Openmoko. I've heard that
it was originally mad
Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
> Today Openmoko released additional pieces of documentation about
> Freerunner hardware: board outline, footprints and netlist.
This is great. Thanks a lot to you and everyone in Openmoko who has
helped to make this happen !
With these files, we'll be able to make a mecha
Nils Faerber wrote:
> This would be one of the details I am interested in, i.e. would OpenMoko
> Inc. help in making (read as "producing") this new design? With its part
> stock, manufacturing capabilities, etc.?
Access to components is currently under discussion, yes. There are
at least some logi
Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
> Q1) So, OpenMoko has not committed to building the 10-20 protos?
No, and Openmoko wasn't actually asked for such a commitment, as
it would not fit with the current focus of Openmoko. If Openmoko
or some other company might be interested at some point in time
to produce dev
Nils Faerber wrote:
> I also know from experience that some parts are really nasty to get -
> either you do not get them at all or you have to buy large quantaties of
> them.
Oh yes. You wouldn't believe just how often we had that sort of thing
happen to Openmoko. I've learned to treat sourcing wi
Nils Faerber wrote:
> Wouldn't it be more fruitful to create a project that is only concerned
> about providing the best possible tools, hardware and software, for
> braking into and reverse engineering existing devices?
There are already a number of projects that do exactly this, such
as OpenEZX
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> For sure. When you guys get ready for the first build, I'll find a way
> to help. I'm open to donating some parts and time. This is a great
> project!
Wonderful, thanks a lot ! Access to parts is probably the single
most important condition for the success of this project.
Sven Klomp wrote:
> When I arrived, the whole office was empty. [...]
I'd say your timing was perfect. Your eyes did not betray you, but
it's still too early to draw too many conclusions from what you saw.
I think it may take a few days before there will be any official
information from Openmoko.
hong zhang wrote:
> I like to buy a Atheros SDIO wifi card and can be used in laptop SDIO lot.
> Could any one tell me where I can buy it?
Hmm, the only ones I've seen with that shape were development boards.
Atheros might have an idea about whether such modules are available.
If not, maybe try Ac
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if
> you have the Buzz problem.
Hmm, wasn't there an environmental component as well, i.e., band and
signal strength ? So changes in the network, e.g., traveling, moving,
or the provider messing
Sean, thanks for the update !
It is unfortunate that Openmoko Inc. cannot presently continue to
lead the development of the open phone. But then, many a great
undertaking has required more than one effort before reaching its
goal. Anything that brings us closer to that goal is a success in
itself,
Doug Jones wrote:
> Has this bug been there all along? Does our community's collective
> memory have a hole in it?
Seems that it chopped the mail at the line beginning with "From".
Not sure where the rest ended up ...
- Werner
___
Openmoko community
roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote:
> I booted from flash and SD card for quite some time.
I think it's best to consider Qi as an SD-centric solution and to
plan migrating towards SD.
NAND support is only there because of the GTA01/GTA02 legacy and it
has limitations compared to SD. While technically p
Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
> I use the distribution on NAND as an SD card reader.
Hmm, I think we have to distinguish between things you can do and
things that actually make sense here ;-)
Once you've started to fill the niches, it's always unpleasant to
change. That's one reason why it's difficult to
arne anka wrote:
> - what reasons make you say, sd is the future?
The main reasons are:
- much easier handling. SD is like a disk, so you can use all the
standard tools and get standard behaviour. NAND needs a lot of
exceptional treatment to properly address wear and factory-bad
blocks. I.e
Christoph Pulster wrote:
> I see ONE active Mailinglist (here) and nothing more worth to mention.
openmoko-kernel used to be very busy. Now it's a bit more quiet
with kernel maintenance being rearranged, but I expect it to
pick up some more activity again before too long.
Also, these days, the mo
Dale Schumacher wrote:
> If the concerted efforts of many talented (in some cases even paid)
> engineers couldn't achieve that basic milestone, it seems unlikely
> that it will be achieved by a loosely-organized group of unpaid (and
> demoralized) volunteers.
You can view the situation also as an
[ Cross-posted to the community list, since there's been a lot of
discussion about future projects as well. ]
A few people have voiced discomfort with the gta02-core project
dominating the gta03 list, and I have to admit that having us
squat there was more an act of opportunity than a good choic
Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
> http://www.vimeo.com/5029019
Lovely retro style. Bleeding-edge technology meets the silent
movie. Finally, there's a worthy successor for "Metropolis" :-)
Someone should make a piano track for it.
- Werner
___
Openmoko communit
Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
> If the Openmoko community is interested in pursuing this, I would be
> happy to discuss LI's plans further with you, and how Openmoko could fit
> into this.
I think putting gta02-core and similar projects under the wings of
LI is a wonderful idea ! We already discussed s
David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote:
> * Open Hardware programable Annoy-a-tron 2.0[1] like. (1)
>
> [1]http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/b278/
Sean actually likes pranks very much :-)
(Sadly, I never managed to goad anyone into trying the inverted
coffee cup prank on him, and when I fi
Jeremy McNaughton wrote:
> Scope: What will our mission statement be? Is the foundation just
> to support the gta02-core project,
Just a quick remark: please don't concentrate too much on
gta02-core when planning organizational structures for the
future.
The focus of gta02-core is not on makin
Christoph Pulster wrote:
> While working out a solution, we get stuck on the point the battery has
> some coded ID-Chip. This chip is not available on the market.
> Also the data can not be copied to another IC because its crypted.
Hmm, I wonder what that would be or what it would do :-)
I have
Jeremy McNaughton wrote:
> With a little help this could eventually become our charter for a
> sub-group of Linux International.
I wonder if LI may have something like a template for such sub-group
charters.
> The stuff I've written there are all just ideas that can be completely
> changed. We h
Jeremy McNaughton wrote:
> 1. That the open source hardware development processes pioneered by
> gta02-core get formalized as part of the structure of the new
> organization
There's always room for improvements, so I wouldn't nail down too
many details. But the overall goals, i.e., the use of Ope
Adolph J. Vogel wrote:
> As a new freerunner owner :) and as a mechanical engineering masters
> student, I think this might be an ideal place for me to contribute to
> the freerunners future. :)
Yeah ! You may even be able to make this count as a semester or
final project, or similar.
> I have do
[ Let's give threads that change direction a clearer name than just
"Freerunner's Future" ]
Fabian Sch?lzel wrote:
> I'm not an engineer, but a draftsman, so I could also help with the
> mechanical design and modeling of the case and other things related
> to the project.
Great ! I think "redoi
Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
> A copy of Dr. Zuffo's letter of intent is below. I have the original
> PDF if anyone would like to see it, but it was too big to make it
> through the community's standards on mailing lists unmoderated, and I
> thought you might like to see this as soon as possible.
Thi
?lvaro Lopes wrote:
> > But (for example) the "gerbers" be licensed with a small royalty (1-2
> > dollars per phone, with a cap of 500,000 to 1,000,000 USD) only if the
> > party will make *over* 5,000-10,000 phones.
>
> Interesting idea, but would defy the openness of the project IMHO.
I feel a
steven mosher wrote:
> A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop
> by and say hello.
And so it has begun ... congratulations and good luck !
May the source be with you :-)
- Werner
___
Openmoko community mailing lis
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and
> ncurses.
I noticed that is has an escape key. So vi will be fine. What else
could one possibly wish for, except that more GUI designers would
draw their inspiration from the grace and style of vi ? :-
Sorry for the cross-post. I've prepared a whitepaper that explains
the documentation requirement of Open Source Hardware to component
vendors.
If you're interested in this topic, please help to review it. The
thread about it is on the gta02-core list:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gta02-cor
steven mosher wrote:
>2. Build a Copyleft version of the Iphone from scratch. pass me
> 400Million and I'll get right
>on it! But you can't just build the iPhone, you have to build what
> apple will ship 18 months
>from now to be competitive.
Heh, I'd do it for 40 ;-)
But I th
[ Changed the subject, for we've veered off-topic. ]
pike wrote:
> So, what did science fiction *miss* ?
Actually, very little :) One thing that could make voice telecommunication
a lot more attractive would be an avatar who "listens" and "understands".
Voice mail makes many people uncomfortable
pike wrote:
> strange, i've never seen it in day-to-day usage.
> can't do it on my phone afaik ?
It's certainly one of the more obscure features :) You should be
able to use it by making the first call, then call the next party
and "join" the calls, and so on. Not sure if any of the Openmoko
distr
Dan Staley wrote:
> The glamo.useful? If this work continues...perhaps a rethink of
> gta02-core is in order?!
Hmm, I doubt it :) Use one bitmap that's not cached in Glamo memory and
you're back to watching the same old paint dry again. So I still think
gta02-core will run circles around GTA0
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> The only sane way to substantially improve booting time is to stop booting
> like a desktop PC, that is move away from starting all services just because
> you can. Start them on demand and bring only the bare necessities up on boot
> (filesystems, dbus, X).
Yes,
Stroller wrote:
> This barometer is self-contained and connected to the i2c bus, a
> _relatively_ simple addition. If there is demand for the barometer -
> although I'm inclined to agree with Rask that there wouldn't be - then
> it might it be justified to add it were Brazil ever to go into
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> Today, with the greatest of pleasure, I am ready to share with you the
> birth of our third product -- WikiReader.
Yeah, it has hatched ! Congratulations to you and the rest of the
team, and I hope that this cool little device will be a smashing
success !
- Werner
__
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> What about GTA02-core?
Hmm, no plans from my side so far. I prefer to have something
tangible to show when going to conferences :-)
There are still a few months until FOSDEM - by when would a
decision have to be made ?
- Werner
_
ts too. For now, I've been trying
to do most things with dragging, but tapping may indeed be easier.
Anyway, my proof of concept version can do either. You just have to
give it the right state machine :-)
- Werner
--
_________
/ W
input with the current hardware, as long as you can make
sure that one finger is placed before the other, but you'd have to
do some research into interpreting the data you get.
- Werner
--
_____
/ Werner Almesberger, B
#x27;t allow Flash protection to be done
sensibly :-( So software/user input can in fact brick a machine to
the point where the only recovery possible is through JTAG, e.g.,
with the debug board.
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger
o get into DRM ;-)
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
Ope
ot;recovery" Flash chip for those who choose to remove
the bulletproof protection. (E.g., if they have a debug board.)
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberg
aks it, they will have a means to
restore something that works.
This is a bit different from the regular consumer device, where
people will at most install some nice, well-tested vendor updates.
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Alm
You can still change
kernels, boot loader, and all that, with maximum ease. (They're
all in the regular Flash.)
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_
ify which NAND Flash area can be written to.
Once this is set, it cannot be changed without a reset. So this
would be a "hardware assisted" solution. Unfortunately, you can
probably bypass it if you're determined.
- Werner
--
__
ot; approach works well enough in other
contexts. I've used it myself.
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net/___
cesses.
Something your virus author may still do, of course. And that's
when the second chip kicks in.
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL
job of downloading some fixed format
> data from a host.
You'd have to ask Harald for comments on USB (among other things,
he implemented DFU in u-boot), but my impression is that it's hard
and messy enough that nobody wants to maintain yet another stack.
- Werner
--
__
a fine triumph of NIH. And of course, they had to add
isochronous transmissions. That's to low-level communications about
what the video phone is to telephony :-(
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Arg
own with a small FPGA
is a bit too much work for a lunch break project.)
- Werner
--
_________
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECT
ething
like the LogicPort: http://www.pctestinstruments.com/
- Werner
--
_____
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.alme
!
- Werner
--
_____
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
OpenMoko community mailing lis
the
multi-letter functions are basically unreadable (while
"unsplashed").
- Werner
--
_____
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://
game.
- Werner
--
_____
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
OpenMoko community mailin
entation.
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
OpenMoko c
#openmoko-devel.)
> I would vote against another ml. We already have enough. Just send the
> patch to the ml for the stuff you are hacking on: u-boot, kernel,
> application...
For reasonably self-contained small projects, we also have
projects.openmoko.org
- Werner
--
_
er
review.
> [ Tautology deleted ], I'll add these tasks and perhaps some more
> to the wiki tonight.
Great ! :-)
- Werner
--
_
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