Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Ray Tayek
On 1/11/2016 7:10 PM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira wrote: Hi, some time back I mentioned creating a program that evaluates the aesthetics of a game of Go. Has anyone given it some thought? I'd love to have a comparison between professional and amateur dan matches, ... shape

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Josef Moudrik
Some time ago, we (with pasky) looked into a related question of player attribute prediction - such as territoriality, aggresivity, influence oriented style, or strength. Project website is here: http://gostyle.j2m.cz/ Imo you can predict/evaluate pretty much anything you get dataset for.

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Hendrik Baier
I like the topic of aesthetics in gameplay. I think the focus in previous studies in chess was more on compositions (artificial problems) than on actual games, so the question is not whether a player plays beautifully, but whether a problem is elegant and beautiful. And they did come up with

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Nick Wedd
On 12 January 2016 at 13:29, Ray Tayek wrote: > On 1/11/2016 7:10 PM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira wrote: > > Hi, some time back I mentioned creating a program that evaluates the > aesthetics of a game of Go. Has anyone given it some thought? I'd love to > have a comparison between

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Josef Moudrik
And do you find these "ugly yet working" moves aesthetically pleasing? I think it all depends what do we mean by aesthetics. In my opinion, it is not strength - the hard thing about go imo is that while the nice (shape, ..) do often work, sometimes, the ugly move works better - precisely as Nick

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-12 Thread Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira
I agree that playing strength should not be determinant for Go aesthetics. Of course obvious mistakes are not pleasant, but I consider close matches* with either close styles (symmetry) or very different styles more important. Lopsided or early decided matches with big captures, handicaps,

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-11 Thread Robert Jasiek
Is playing bad moves good for aesthetics? No? Then why call it aesthetics? Call it perfect / good play. The most "beautiful" stone is bad if it is dead. -- robert jasiek ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [Computer-go] Go Aesthetics

2016-01-11 Thread Steven Clark
It's an inherently subjective thought-exercise -- ask 10 different players and you will get 10 different ideas of what constitutes beauty. I'm not even sure I agree with the metrics proposed in http://www.wseas.us/e-library/transactions/computers/2008/26-184.pdf for chess -- why is it inherently