Nick Wedd wrote:
According to the game records from the recent ICGA events in
Amsterdam, the 19x19 events used Japanese rules with 6.5 komi, and the
9x9 games used Chinese rules, but with 6.5 komi. So I suspect not.
All games were played with Chinese rules, with a komi of 6.5. Those who
played
> -Original Message-
> From: Darren Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ...
> P.S. There is also rec.games.go, but I think people only post there when
> they want to argue about something. (Disclaimer: I've not followed
> rec.games.go in about 5 years, I suppose it may have mellowed since.)
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 16:23 -0700, Christoph Birk wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, chrilly wrote:
> > I have written a C# Prototype-GUI. But I have no time and also not much
> > interest to develop this further. I have good jobs in industry. Working 2
> > weeks on an GUI costs me indirectly 5.000 E
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 08:50 -0700, Dave Dyer wrote:
> On the other hand, all the rules arguments in Go are really
> only applicable to incredibly marginal, bordering on imaginary
> situations.
That ignores the very real problems that many beginners have trying to
understand the logic behind Japane
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, chrilly wrote:
I have written a C# Prototype-GUI. But I have no time and also not much
interest to develop this further. I have good jobs in industry. Working 2
weeks on an GUI costs me indirectly 5.000 Euro. CGOS is not worth this money.
Adding direct CGOS protocoll to my
>> Or did you mean it is too much bother to connect with gogui while
>> also running your code in a debugger?
>
> That would be great! How do you do that (without going through a
> million zillion steps each time)? I use Visual Studio.
Can Visual Studio connect to a running process?
On linux you
> I thought the rules for Go were rather simplistic when it came to scoring:
> Count all eyes, and spaces owned by each player and each captured
> stone counted as a point. Whoever had the most points wins.
>
> How does that differ from Japanese, Chinese, Korean?
Hi Josh,
Many of your recent ques
>> New lesson learned. It depends on the rule set if something is correct
>> or a blunder.
>> So far the Go-masters told me, it does not matter, its practically the
>> same. Obviously its not. This is not some weired, constructed
>> position, it really happened and it does not look strange at all.
I didn't write this :) I'm pretty familiar with the differences in rule
sets.
David
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Robert Jasiek
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:17 PM
> To: computer-go
> Subject: Re: [computer-go] Why are di
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, chrilly wrote:
New lesson learned. It depends on the rule set if something is correct or a
blunder.
So far the Go-masters told me, it does not matter, its practically the same.
Obviously its not. This is not some weired, constructed position, it really
happened and it does
In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jason
House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
The key question is really if the game would have been played
differently knowing the ruleset.
Yes. In both games, a player who was mistaken about the ruleset chose a
calm solid defensive line which would have given the
IIRC, in KGS, the players themselves mark the dead groups, and if they disagree
I suppose there
is a conflict-resolution procedure. ( haven't come across that in actual play )
When I started on KGS, I was unaware that it was the players' responsibility to
mark dead groups -
my opponent was mar
David Fotland wrote:
I'm curious... How does the rule sets affect how people play the game of go?
Different scoring requires my strategy to be adapted. Different counting
leads to different kinds of defensive methods against accidental or
cheating errors.
I personally find territory scorin
Jason House wrote:
> If both players
miss it because it's a more complex vulnerability, then they miss it and
the score corresponds to their expectations.
Players miss it mostly when being too lazy to make a positional
judgement shortly before the end and to verify whether KGS marks the
right
Does Chrilly have anything to do with this project?
-Josh
No. Up to my knowledge a student makes his Diplomarbeit (masters-thesis) on
this topic. But building such a machine is somewhat beyond a masters thesis.
The problem is: There are no funds, no money available. Generally the Univ.
Paderb
BTW I have no idea what IGGA means, "International Guild Of Glass
Artists", "International Grooving and Grinding Association",
"International Gomputer Games Association", is it a typo???
In my head its still ICCA. I knew, that there was an G somewhere added.
Maybe my brain solved the conflict w
The biggest difference in over the board club play is the scoring procedure.
in territory scoring, prisoners are kept separate, and at the end of the
game prisoners are put back in enemy territory and regions are rearranged to
rectangles and counter. Counting is pretty fast, and the board position
On 7/12/07, Robert Jasiek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jason House wrote:
> I mean that the
> resulting marking of who's territories is who's matches what I would
have
> done if I stopped at that point and scored the game.
Occasionally, KGS fails here. See rec.games.go or elsewhere for details.
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 13:58 -0400, Jason House wrote:
> I run some really dumb bots online that play perfectly fine blitz
> games (10s/move) with Chinese rules and it still drives humans insane
> because the computer doesn't stop playing. People resign won games in
> endgame because they can't tak
Jason House wrote:
> I mean that the
resulting marking of who's territories is who's matches what I would have
done if I stopped at that point and scored the game.
Occasionally, KGS fails here. See rec.games.go or elsewhere for details.
> I don't see a way that
the game would have come out to
For computer purposes, this is the problem:
Territorial scoring is more human-convenient, can be done without filling
the dame or removing dead stones.
But it all depends on knowing which groups are live, which dead, which in
seki. If there's a disagreement, it needs to be settled by resuming the
On 7/12/07, Robert Jasiek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jason House wrote:
> KGS does a fine job with unfilled dame.
Any server that violates the rules during scoring does not do a "fine"
job. KGS violates whichever Japanese rules.
It's probably already clear that I pay little attention to the
Does Chrilly have anything to do with this project?
-Josh
On 7/12/07, Richard Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 7/12/07, Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, gomputers are real:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=gomputer
Maybe you were joking, but did you notice that one of the hits
On 7/12/07, Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No, gomputers are real:
http://www.google.com/search?q=gomputer
Maybe you were joking, but did you notice that one of the hits
from that search was a URL where the spelling was not only
used _intentionally_, but also -- in a remarkable occurre
On 7/12/07, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jason
House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On 7/12/07, chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why is it not possible to establish uniform rules in Go?
>
>I'm curious... How does the rule sets affect how people play the
- Original Message
From: Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> BTW I have no idea what IGGA means, "International Guild Of Glass
>> Artists", "International Grooving and Grinding Association",
> >"International Gomputer Games Association", is it a typo???
> No, gomputers are real:
> http://
BTW I have no idea what IGGA means, "International Guild Of Glass
Artists", "International Grooving and Grinding Association",
"International Gomputer Games Association", is it a typo???
No, gomputers are real:
http://www.google.com/search?q=gomputer
On 7/12/07, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>For computers special cases matter. Especially for a search based
>programm. A search based programm finds every possible special case and
>plays into this case, because the opponent does not prevent it.
>Are there something as Universal accepted
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, chrilly
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
I think your table tennis analogy is not really applicable.
The rule changes in table tennis were presumably motivated
by the need to fix a real problem, and really changed the
game.
Yes, due to the advancements in rubber techno
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 18:53 +0200, chrilly wrote:
> Jesus, there are not just Japanese, Chinese rules, there are ING, AGA... I
> learned today, that suicide is allowed under some rules...
> I thought, Go is a well defined game with a very clear "mathematical" rule
> set.
>
> There are discussion
Jesus, there are not just Japanese, Chinese rules, there are ING, AGA... I
learned today, that suicide is allowed under some rules...
I thought, Go is a well defined game with a very clear "mathematical" rule
set.
There are discussions in other sports too (e.g. in Table-Tennis), but
neverthele
I think your table tennis analogy is not really applicable.
The rule changes in table tennis were presumably motivated
by the need to fix a real problem, and really changed the
game.
Yes, due to the advancements in rubber technology the game become too fast.
"Bumm-Bumm-Over". Furthermore the b
From discussion, it seems that there are two important tests of
unbiasedness that we can make for an improvement to playouts:
1: For any position, we should equally study what happens when either
black or white moves there. This is captured in the proverb "your
opponent's good move is your good
Been following this tread and it has me concerned both as a beginning
player and engine developer.
I thought the rules for Go were rather simplistic when it came to scoring:
Count all eyes, and spaces owned by each player and each captured
stone counted as a point. Whoever had the most points win
In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jason
House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
On 7/12/07, chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why is it not possible to establish uniform rules in Go?
I'm curious... How does the rule sets affect how people play the game
of go?
Kyu players, using full boards, aren't
Dave Dyer wrote:
> all the rules arguments in Go are really
only applicable to incredibly marginal, bordering on imaginary
situations.
Traditional Territory Scoring rules fail in the most ordinary (!)
positions of EACH game, see http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/j1989c.html
What you claim is false
Jason House wrote:
KGS does a fine job with unfilled dame.
Any server that violates the rules during scoring does not do a "fine"
job. KGS violates whichever Japanese rules.
--
robert
___
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@computer-go.org
http://
I think your table tennis analogy is not really applicable.
The rule changes in table tennis were presumably motivated
by the need to fix a real problem, and really changed the
game.
On the other hand, all the rules arguments in Go are really
only applicable to incredibly marginal, bordering on
I think your table tennis analogy is not really applicable.
The rule changes in table tennis were presumably motivated
by the need to fix a real problem, and really changed the
game.
On the other hand, all the rules arguments in Go are really
only applicable to incredibly marginal, bordering on
On 7/12/07, Phil G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jason wrote:
> I'd also be willing to support slight variants to SGF that use positions
> such as C4 instead of wacky things that don't match the notation
> everyone else uses and vary depending on the board size.
Anders Kierulf's SmartGo program
On 7/12/07, Robert Jasiek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jason House wrote:
> I personally find territory scoring more interesting. 90% of my
> reason
> for that is because the game ends sooner... I don't have to go filling
dame
> (open spaces between chains of opposing colors).
This is for most p
Jason wrote:
> I'd also be willing to support slight variants to SGF that use positions
> such as C4 instead of wacky things that don't match the notation
> everyone else uses and vary depending on the board size.
Anders Kierulf's SmartGo program has the option to use standard Go coordinates
Jason House wrote:
> I personally find territory scoring more interesting. 90% of my
reason
for that is because the game ends sooner... I don't have to go filling dame
(open spaces between chains of opposing colors).
This is for most part an illusion. In real world games, the dame are
filled
On Jul 12, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Don Dailey wrote:
I'm curious about this myself. I don't know if there is a world-wide
go organization. I don't think there is any organization that has
the
clout to standardize this in a way that would be respected and
globally
adopted.
Yes there is:
http
chrilly wrote:
Why is it not possible to establish uniform rules in Go?
As somebody having taken part in the International Go Rules Forum, which
has been meant to unify the rules, I can tell you the reasons:
The major split has - not surprisingly - occurred again between the Area
Scoring (C
On 7/12/07, Phil G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
But there are only two drawbacks with this approach. One, it only works as
a result of a customized GTP command. Sometimes I want it to display
debugging information data while the GTP command is still executing (or
maybe as an addition to an existin
Darren Cook wrote:
> You know you can output internal data to stderr and gogui will pick it
> up and show it in the shell window?
Yes; I use the stderr output feature extensively. In fact, GoGui can be
extended via customizable analyze commands via GTP, which among other things,
can display grap
On 7/12/07, chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why is it not possible to establish uniform rules in Go?
I'm curious... How does the rule sets affect how people play the game of
go? I personally find territory scoring more interesting. 90% of my reason
for that is because the game ends soon
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 16:37 +0200, chrilly wrote:
> I am playing competitive tennis-table. There were for years a heated debatte
> if the ball-diamater should be increased from 38 to 40mm and if the set
> shall go to 11 instead of to 21. A few years ago, the decision was taken to
> play with the
Hi Chrilly,
Take a look at this list, there are already maybe more than 100 posts
on this subject. While I agree with you, just don't worry, almost all
computer go games are with the same set of rules, just ignore the
rest.
Cheers,
Sylvain
2007/7/12, chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I am playing c
I am playing competitive tennis-table. There were for years a heated debatte
if the ball-diamater should be increased from 38 to 40mm and if the set
shall go to 11 instead of to 21. A few years ago, the decision was taken to
play with the 40mm ball to make the game slower and in turn to reduce t
Brian Slesinsky wrote:
And this would mean that a position where black is in trouble
would look stronger than in a random playout (due to black
playing well only for this kind of situation) which would make
it harder to tell which positions are actually good.
Or in general, an improvement i
Hi Chrilly,
There is no CGOS protocol, you only need to support GTP and any serious
GO program supports that.
GTP is a simple text based protocol that can implemented faster than it
takes you to read the spec and make sure you understand it!
I would expect you to need 2 hours to implement t
I forgot to mention, it's C#.
On 7/12/07, Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I haven't been working on Go at all recently so here's my UI code.
It's not great. I only used it for testing and feedback. It's not
meant to look nice. Perhaps someone else can also use it.
www.fantius.com/Go.U
I haven't been working on Go at all recently so here's my UI code.
It's not great. I only used it for testing and feedback. It's not
meant to look nice. Perhaps someone else can also use it.
www.fantius.com/Go.UI.rar
___
computer-go mailing list
comp
Phil wrote:
> anymore? I could use it. Right now I use GoGui for the GUI, which is
> great, but sometimes I'd like to display internal data during debug
> for which GoGui would be too difficult to use.
You know you can output internal data to stderr and gogui will pick it
up and show it in the she
it's much more likely not to matter on
a real (19x19) board.
s.
--- chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> New lesson learned. It depends on the rule set if
> something is correct or a
> blunder.
> So far the Go-masters told me, it does not matter,
> its practically the same.
> Obviously its not
At 08:49 AM 7/9/2007, you wrote:
...
Any help is appreciated, trying to write a parse in C
you might try some of the people on the mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
vice-chair http://ocjug.org/
___
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@computer-go
Hi Chrilly,
GoTraxx has a C# class that interfaces directly with CGOS. Should be fairly
trivial to incorporate especially if it already knows GTP. The source code is
up at CodePlex.
Regarding your prototype GUI, would you consider donating it the open source
community, especially if you don't
59 matches
Mail list logo
