Don Dailey wrote:
I think we should open up to other ideas, not
just dynamic komi modification. In fact that
has not proved to be a very fruitful technique
and I don't understand the fascination with it.
I was not clear enough in the original posting.
My main point is the following:
Ingo,
are you sure you already want to bet on one particular technique? :)
I don't believe a score optimisation algorithm like UCT works all that
well when behind. I am pretty sure that human players do *not* choose
between the top three moves if their values are 40%, 39% and 38%. They
will
Hi,
I would like to know what exact experiments with virtual komi have
been made and why thay failed. To me, this idea seems very natural, as
it encodes the confidence of the stronger player that the weaker one
will eventually make more mistakes on his own. You don't need to catch
up a
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Benjamin Teuber benjamin.teu...@web.dewrote:
Hi,
I would like to know what exact experiments with virtual komi have
been made and why thay failed. To me, this idea seems very natural, as
it encodes the confidence of the stronger player that the weaker one
Don Dailey wrote:
You just hit the nail on the head. Dynamic komi does not encourage a
program to overplay the position. Since you are starting from a losing
position you HAVE to overplay a bit. You have to attack when it is
futile.
Dynamic komi just makes the program happy with less. That
Benjamin Teuber wrote:
I would like to know what exact experiments with virtual komi have
been made and why thay failed.
In particular, it would be interesting to know what board sizes people have
tried it with.
-M-
___
computer-go mailing list
You just hit the nail on the head. Dynamic komi does not encourage a
program to overplay the position. Since you are starting from a losing
position you HAVE to overplay a bit. You have to attack when it is futile.
That depends on the komi - if you're behind by fourty points and set
the
The July 2009 KGS computer Go tournament will be next Sunday, July 19th,
in the Asian night, European afternoon and American morning, starting at
16:00 UTC/GMT (17:00 BST) and ending at 22:00 UTC/GMT (23:00 BST).
There will be only one division. It will be a 9-round Swiss with 19x19
boards
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Benjamin Teuber benjamin.teu...@web.dewrote:
You just hit the nail on the head. Dynamic komi does not encourage a
program to overplay the position. Since you are starting from a losing
position you HAVE to overplay a bit. You have to attack when it is
There are 3 commonly cited problems and 4 commonly proposed remedies.
Problems:
1) Human games remain interesting, even after the winner is clear, because the
players just naturally switch to playing for maximum territory. Wouldn't MCTS
bots be more fun to play against if they did that too?
2)
Don, others,
are there publications about this? If people have tried it out, are
there any threads on this list that somebody remembers where results
are posted? I have not been able to find any. It would be interesting
to see.
Christian
2009/7/12 Don Dailey dailey@gmail.com:
On Sun,
e) use a knowledge system that knows what good moves look to prune or bias
the moves when way ahead or way behind. This is what many Faces does.
David
From: computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org
[mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of
dhillism...@netscape.net
Sent: Sunday,
It's not up to me to prove anything. It's up to you.
You entered a discussion in which you gave arguments (that I believe
are nonsense) against this method, which I just meant to counter.
But I don't want to prove anything (well I might want, but I know I cannot).
I'm really just curious about
2009/7/12 David Fotland fotl...@smart-games.com
e) use a knowledge system that knows what good moves look to prune or
bias the moves when way ahead or way behind. This is what many Faces does.
This is what I believe to be the most reasonable approach.
- Don
David
*From:*
I would like to know what exact experiments with virtual komi have
been made and why thay failed. ..
So why exactly shouldn't it work?
(warning: I have not tried this yet, just been thinking about the issue)
While virtual komi sounds like an attractively simple way of solving
the issue, I
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Christian Nentwich
christian.nentw...@gmail.com wrote:
Don, others,
are there publications about this? If people have tried it out, are
there any threads on this list that somebody remembers where results
are posted? I have not been able to find any. It
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Benjamin Teuber benjamin.teu...@web.dewrote:
It's not up to me to prove anything. It's up to you.
You entered a discussion in which you gave arguments (that I believe
are nonsense) ...
but at least fits the observation that this method does not work.
Don Dailey wrote:
I did try this myself but I don't have any data to show what I did.What
I remember is that it's incredibly tricky - how do you actually know when
and how much to adjust? If the score starts getting really low or really
high, do you restart the search with a new komi?
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Matthew Woodcraft
matt...@woodcraft.me.ukwrote:
Don Dailey wrote:
I did try this myself but I don't have any data to show what I did.
What
I remember is that it's incredibly tricky - how do you actually know when
and how much to adjust? If the score
I would like to know what exact experiments with virtual komi
have been made and why thay failed. ...
I'm only aware of Don's experiment [1], which he admits he doesn't have
any details for and only remembers: I did a bunch of experiments and
ALWAYS got a reduced wins when I faked the komi.
On
...
3) For a big enough handicap, the bot plays random, ugly looking
moves in the beginning. Can't that be improved?
Remedies:
...
Another remedy is to have some handicap opening books, just to help get
the MCTS programs get a bit further along before they start their all
moves are created
If I think something will overflow a 4-byte, I use an 8-byte.
Yeah, I should add the ability to write out an SGF for a part of the tree.
Jason House wrote:
What do use for your counters? 32 bit numbers max out at 4 billion, and
you're already beyond that.
Is it possible to generate an SGF
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Darren Cook dar...@dcook.org wrote:
I would like to know what exact experiments with virtual komi
have been made and why thay failed. ...
I'm only aware of Don's experiment [1], which he admits he doesn't have
any details for and only remembers: I did a
That's an interesting idea - factoring in knowledge about the variability of
a position. Certain parts of the board are going to be stable with alternating
play - you attack, I defend, the position remains stable. Other parts of the
board are less well-defined. On the 9x9 board, conflicts
Terry McIntyre, Martin Mueller, and I will be meeting in at the IJCAI
registration desk at the Pasadena (CA) convention center at 12:30 on
Tuesday, July 14.
If any other computer Go people are in the area, we'd love to have you
join us.
Peter Drake
http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/
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