[CGUYS] Mac Firmware Patches
Those who have had some problems running Windows on Intel Macs may want to try again after installing the firmware patches that Apple released yesterday. Long list of links at macintouch.com or just run software updater. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Anti-virus
At 7:11 PM -0400 9/27/07, Steve Rigby wrote: On Sep 27, 2007, at 5:12 PM, Paul Meyer wrote: Rather than being consumer driven changes in software have always been largely done over the objections of the user base. IMHO (List, am I right?) I think you are pretty much right. And yet, a lot of Microsoft's difficulties stem from an apparent mandate to not break anything, no matter how old. In other words, backwards compatibility for user-developed applications (usually corporate; the guys who buy thousands and thousands of copies). That is why only the 64-bit version of Vista has the security really screwed down tight. If they did that in the 32-bit version, it would break too many things. That's my impression, from listening to Steve Gibson's Security Now podcasts. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
At 02:39 PM 09/29/2007 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote This is an application where Windows is inappropriate. She needs a computer to use, not a computer that provides endless opportunities for tinkering. Get her a computer that is attractive, easy to use, that works right out of the box and is not prone to failure. A computer that does not need anti-virus, anti-spyware, and patches every Tuesday. Getting her a Windows computer would be a triumph of ideology over good sense (leave that to the politicians). An iMac 20 would be perfect. And you're going to be right there with her to teach her to use this? Or maybe kick in the extra $500 over the cost of a PC? I would be her only teacher, and I know absolutely nothing about a Mac. I can do the necessary updates and sort out the messes on a PC. She is not an adventurous type of person. Her big hangup has been that she doesn't know how to type. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall, all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. Anything more than that, and she will throw her hands in the air and be done. Sue * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [ OT WARNING!!!!
On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Charles Ballinger wrote: Any except the gov't hospital. What government hospital are you talking about? I take it that you are not a veteran and no nothing about the VA. The VA is the biggest hospital system in the world and provides very good care for the less money than any other hospital in the US. The VA is not constrained by the latest medicaid/medicare bill that prevents bulk bidding for medicines. As a consequence the VA pays the least amount for medicine of any hospital in the US. The VA is the most computerized and has the most advanced medical software of any hospital in the world. The VA was using bar code scanners to scan patients and pass meds 10 years ago. This makes it virtually impossible to have a medication error. Doctors do not hand write orders at the VA. All orders have do be entered into a computer. Hand written orders are the number one reason for medication mistakes . They kill some where in the neighborhood of 100,000 people per year in the us. All hospital in this country have problems (including the VA), but please don't knock the best run hospital system in the country (which happens to be government run) to private hospitals. By the way the VA is not Walter Reed which is a army hospital for active duty soldiers. And one of Walter Reed's biggest problem's came about because they privatized their janitorial staff with a subsidiary of Haliburton. For profit and nonprofit are equal except if you're a high risk OB/ sick mother case and would prefer the mother be saved by sacrificing the baby should it come to that. In that case you'd want to avoid certain religious affiliated hospitals. On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Given the choice of three hospitals and knowing only that one was run by a government agency, one was run by a for-profit corporation, and one was run by a religious-charitable organization, which would your choose? ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived ** ** Mark Corrigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
And you're going to be right there with her to teach her to use this? Or maybe kick in the extra $500 over the cost of a PC? The price of crappy PCs has crept up as companies like Dell have found that they can't be profitable at their former prices. And I was not suggesting you get the cheapest Mac either. I was suggesting the model that is most likely to be successful. The iMac 20 is $1200. Your description of the computer user did not suggest that a crappy PC would be acceptable. Many people do not want to turn a corner of their home into something resembling Dr. Frankenstein's lab. A computer that looks intimidating is likely to be a computer that does not get used. The Mac OS has VNC built in. To do that with Vi$$$ta you will need to buy a more expensive version. That would be a waste of money. I would be her only teacher, and I know absolutely nothing about a Mac. I can do the necessary updates and sort out the messes on a PC. I don't think ignorance is an acceptable defense. What if her doctor did not prescribe an important new treatment because keeping up with medical advances was too much trouble? You have a fiduciary responsibility to make the best selection for her, not for you. Instead of taking upon yourself the responsibility to sort out the messes why not get a computer that won't have the messes? You can then direct your efforts to the real challenge: teaching her how to use the computer. She is not an adventurous type of person. Sounds like a Mac owner. Her big hangup has been that she doesn't know how to type. Tell her that many computer users do not know how to type. We hunt and peck. Over time we hunt less and peck more. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall Depends on what is more reliable in her area. I think DSL is usually more reliable. all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. What does she need a word processor for? What does she need an email program for? Keep it simple. Set her up with Gmail. If she must print out a letter she can type it in Gmail and print from there. I would have the computer automatically launch FireFox and make the home page Gmail. Put some icons at the bookmarks toolbar for the other things she needs. Keep it simple. Anything more than that, and she will throw her hands in the air and be done. Exactly my point. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [ OT WARNING!!!!
...no nothing...? I take it you mean KNOW nothing? :) On Sunday 30 September 2007 10:57, Mark Corrigan wrote: On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Charles Ballinger wrote: Any except the gov't hospital. What government hospital are you talking about? I take it that you are not a veteran and no nothing about the VA. The VA is the --- biggest hospital system in the world and provides very good care for the less money than any other hospital in the US. The VA is not constrained by the latest medicaid/medicare bill that prevents bulk bidding for medicines. As a consequence the VA pays the least amount for medicine of any hospital in the US. The VA is the most computerized and has the most advanced medical software of any hospital in the world. The VA was using bar code scanners to scan patients and pass meds 10 years ago. This makes it virtually impossible to have a medication error. Doctors do not hand write orders at the VA. All orders have do be entered into a computer. Hand written orders are the number one reason for medication mistakes . They kill some where in the neighborhood of 100,000 people per year in the us. All hospital in this country have problems (including the VA), but please don't knock the best run hospital system in the country (which happens to be government run) to private hospitals. By the way the VA is not Walter Reed which is a army hospital for active duty soldiers. And one of Walter Reed's biggest problem's came about because they privatized their janitorial staff with a subsidiary of Haliburton. For profit and nonprofit are equal except if you're a high risk OB/ sick mother case and would prefer the mother be saved by sacrificing the baby should it come to that. In that case you'd want to avoid certain religious affiliated hospitals. On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Given the choice of three hospitals and knowing only that one was run by a government agency, one was run by a for-profit corporation, and one was run by a religious-charitable organization, which would your choose? ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived ** ** Mark Corrigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension]
My appreciation of the value of the MacMini would be radically different if I had bought any of the extra services Apple tried to sell (quite aggresively too, btw). I don't advocate integrate the UPS in a PC, but the PC sales guys (like the Dell reps my in-laws encountered) will pile a dozen options and never mention a UPS. (Btw, does anyone know if home-wide generator backup systems respond quickly enough to power-downs to protect ones hard drives and electronics). Many people may have a rare need for a UPS but on the rare instance when you need it, it's value can be considerable. - Original Message From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 12:35:42 PM Subject: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] As much as I like my macmini, computers won't be completely tinker free until they come with 1)UPS 2) Internet connection 3)Automated backup. #1 is essential if you live with iffy power, (which means me even though this is southern Montgomery Co) #3 you need everywhere I guess everyone does get #2 if you include crappy dialup. 1) A few months ago I removed a client's UPS and their frequent calls for service dropped to zero. Since most people do not have iffy power making a UPS a standard part of a computer would not be a good move. As their UPS aged they would have more and more problems and no easy way to fix them. An external UPS can be easily removed or replaced and the majority of us who do not need a UPS won't have to fuss with one. 2) The computer automatically configures your Internet connection the first time it is turned on. It covers many options and I have never seen it do a bad job at this. If you get the dot-Mac service your get configured for lots of other goodies. What more could you want? 3) If you got the dot-Mac service, this is one of the services that came with it. Since the OS keeps your user files neatly organized in a user domain, backing up user files is greatly simplified. What's not to like? Are you perhaps running Vista on your Intel-based MacMini? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension]
Well, sounds like Macs would be perfectly suited to build in a back up device (or provide an external one) to make backing up as easy and automatic as possible, with options for manual control for those who want or need that. Since Apple has control over the hardware and the software, why not have this? Too much added cost, so may not see competitive? Those who can think beyond their nose might appreciate not having to fool with buying aftermarket devices for this. Maybe someday, when I could afford to, I'd even buy one! Randall - Original Message - From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] As much as I like my macmini, computers won't be completely tinker free until they come with 1)UPS 2) Internet connection 3)Automated backup. #1 is essential if you live with iffy power, (which means me even though this is southern Montgomery Co) #3 you need everywhere I guess everyone does get #2 if you include crappy dialup. 1) A few months ago I removed a client's UPS and their frequent calls for service dropped to zero. Since most people do not have iffy power making a UPS a standard part of a computer would not be a good move. As their UPS aged they would have more and more problems and no easy way to fix them. An external UPS can be easily removed or replaced and the majority of us who do not need a UPS won't have to fuss with one. 2) The computer automatically configures your Internet connection the first time it is turned on. It covers many options and I have never seen it do a bad job at this. If you get the dot-Mac service your get configured for lots of other goodies. What more could you want? 3) If you got the dot-Mac service, this is one of the services that came with it. Since the OS keeps your user files neatly organized in a user domain, backing up user files is greatly simplified. What's not to like? Are you perhaps running Vista on your Intel-based MacMini? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension]
Well, I understand that battery technology (in a UPS) is problematic on a variety of fronts (weight, reliability, etc) but apparently necessary (for some people) until the circuitry, power supplies and hard drives in PC's become more robust. The internect connection configuration in OSX is absolutely cool compared to Windows networking. Extremely intuitive and simple. Configuration is only part of the internet functionality, obviously. Though the bluetooth connection to a cell phone so that it can be used as reasonably speedy modem is cool, and could be part of utopian, tweak-free PC experience. User file backups are obviously a nice thing, but I would be more impressed if I didn't have to pay extra for them. Given that OSX updates can stop one dead in the water, isn't a disk image backup still a good idea? Also, are internet backups reasonable in the age of Gigabytes of user data (photos, MP3). On the same topic, is there an app that can log your software installations (and their source, if downloads) so that during recovery you get back your configuration as closely as possible or is this built into OSX? PC be sold bundled in a home network with dedicated backup servers, routers, ups (dancing girls/boys and beer would be nice too). - Original Message From: Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 2:43:45 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] Well, sounds like Macs would be perfectly suited to build in a back up device (or provide an external one) to make backing up as easy and automatic as possible, with options for manual control for those who want or need that. Since Apple has control over the hardware and the software, why not have this? Too much added cost, so may not see competitive? Those who can think beyond their nose might appreciate not having to fool with buying aftermarket devices for this. Maybe someday, when I could afford to, I'd even buy one! Randall - Original Message - From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] As much as I like my macmini, computers won't be completely tinker free until they come with 1)UPS 2) Internet connection 3)Automated backup. #1 is essential if you live with iffy power, (which means me even though this is southern Montgomery Co) #3 you need everywhere I guess everyone does get #2 if you include crappy dialup. 1) A few months ago I removed a client's UPS and their frequent calls for service dropped to zero. Since most people do not have iffy power making a UPS a standard part of a computer would not be a good move. As their UPS aged they would have more and more problems and no easy way to fix them. An external UPS can be easily removed or replaced and the majority of us who do not need a UPS won't have to fuss with one. 2) The computer automatically configures your Internet connection the first time it is turned on. It covers many options and I have never seen it do a bad job at this. If you get the dot-Mac service your get configured for lots of other goodies. What more could you want? 3) If you got the dot-Mac service, this is one of the services that came with it. Since the OS keeps your user files neatly organized in a user domain, backing up user files is greatly simplified. What's not to like? Are you perhaps running Vista on your Intel-based MacMini? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L *
Re: [CGUYS] [ OT WARNING!!!!
You took wrong Mark. I'm a veteran and I know the VA system. Am I to guess you're somehow affiliated with the VA and took exception? I didn't say one couldn't get good care at a VA. I said, given a choice I'd prefer a non-gov't run hospital, except depending on diagnosis. Lots of people seek out care for testicular cancer at Indiana University (Lance Armstrong is a famous one), but they don't go there because its IU. They go to IU because thats where they find Larry Einhorn. The points you mentioned below all relate to efficiency. I answered Tom's question based on my perception of quality of care. A state-run med school affiliated hospital or practice would not be my first choice for routine care. Students need practice and learning opportunities, but I'm under no obligation to provide it personally. Its not relevant that any given VA facility, or the VA on whole while may or may not be the best run hospital system in the country. That the residents managing pt care are supported with barcoded systems, EMRs, and an efficiently purchased formulary is also not relevant to my care decisions. I don't want a resident front-lining my care (especially at the beginning of the year) no matter how efficient the system is said to be. Interestingly, all that most advanced medical software is a current topic of discussion in the churning swirl of medical education. A growing percentage of students is being found unable to compose a patient summary without using the system. Is medical education training techs to follow drop-down lists and history forms? Granted, care directed using a validated system strictly followed will probably reduce malpractice risk. It will also help make appt's quicker so more pts can be seen in a day to help make up for lower reimbursements. But, the argument goes, is that what we want from a physician? I seem to think more and more we do, at least until we get what we're asking for. I just hope the developers have the newest CASE tools and use some of that artificial intelligence and fuzzy logic to build the systems. cb On Sep 30, 2007, at 10:57 AM, Mark Corrigan wrote: On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Charles Ballinger wrote: Any except the gov't hospital. What government hospital are you talking about? I take it that you are not a veteran and no nothing about the VA. The VA is the biggest hospital system in the world and provides very good care for the less money than any other hospital in the US. The VA is not constrained by the latest medicaid/medicare bill that prevents bulk bidding for medicines. As a consequence the VA pays the least amount for medicine of any hospital in the US. The VA is the most computerized and has the most advanced medical software of any hospital in the world. The VA was using bar code scanners to scan patients and pass meds 10 years ago. This makes it virtually impossible to have a medication error. Doctors do not hand write orders at the VA. All orders have do be entered into a computer. Hand written orders are the number one reason for medication mistakes . They kill some where in the neighborhood of 100,000 people per year in the us. All hospital in this country have problems (including the VA), but please don't knock the best run hospital system in the country (which happens to be government run) to private hospitals. By the way the VA is not Walter Reed which is a army hospital for active duty soldiers. And one of Walter Reed's biggest problem's came about because they privatized their janitorial staff with a subsidiary of Haliburton. For profit and nonprofit are equal except if you're a high risk OB/ sick mother case and would prefer the mother be saved by sacrificing the baby should it come to that. In that case you'd want to avoid certain religious affiliated hospitals. On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Given the choice of three hospitals and knowing only that one was run by a government agency, one was run by a for-profit corporation, and one was run by a religious-charitable organization, which would your choose? * *** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] * *** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header
Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension]
Think the goal should be to make the experience of using a computer, at least for the average or below average user, as much like the experience of driving a new or late model, good-shape car as possible. My overall impression is that those designing hardware and software, except maybe for Apple, which I don't know much about, aren't really thinking in these terms. There is way too much complexity, fragmentation, lack of integration, break downs, glitches, things to be aware of, things to know, etc. While all of this keeps business hopping for those in the field (anyone see the 60 minutes show on Geeks and high tech a few weeks ago?) it is not a way to maximize the potential of computers, the internet and related technology, for the maximum number of people. Ultimately, this limits the overall creativity and productivity of the country, just as not having a good high-speed infrastructure does. I'm increasingly becoming convinced that the internet has amazing potential, limited only by our imagination, and by the ease of use of all the involved technology. Randall - Original Message - From: Paul Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] Well, I understand that battery technology (in a UPS) is problematic on a variety of fronts (weight, reliability, etc) but apparently necessary (for some people) until the circuitry, power supplies and hard drives in PC's become more robust. The internect connection configuration in OSX is absolutely cool compared to Windows networking. Extremely intuitive and simple. Configuration is only part of the internet functionality, obviously. Though the bluetooth connection to a cell phone so that it can be used as reasonably speedy modem is cool, and could be part of utopian, tweak-free PC experience. User file backups are obviously a nice thing, but I would be more impressed if I didn't have to pay extra for them. Given that OSX updates can stop one dead in the water, isn't a disk image backup still a good idea? Also, are internet backups reasonable in the age of Gigabytes of user data (photos, MP3). On the same topic, is there an app that can log your software installations (and their source, if downloads) so that during recovery you get back your configuration as closely as possible or is this built into OSX? PC be sold bundled in a home network with dedicated backup servers, routers, ups (dancing girls/boys and beer would be nice too). - Original Message From: Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 2:43:45 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] Well, sounds like Macs would be perfectly suited to build in a back up device (or provide an external one) to make backing up as easy and automatic as possible, with options for manual control for those who want or need that. Since Apple has control over the hardware and the software, why not have this? Too much added cost, so may not see competitive? Those who can think beyond their nose might appreciate not having to fool with buying aftermarket devices for this. Maybe someday, when I could afford to, I'd even buy one! Randall - Original Message - From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] As much as I like my macmini, computers won't be completely tinker free until they come with 1)UPS 2) Internet connection 3)Automated backup. #1 is essential if you live with iffy power, (which means me even though this is southern Montgomery Co) #3 you need everywhere I guess everyone does get #2 if you include crappy dialup. 1) A few months ago I removed a client's UPS and their frequent calls for service dropped to zero. Since most people do not have iffy power making a UPS a standard part of a computer would not be a good move. As their UPS aged they would have more and more problems and no easy way to fix them. An external UPS can be easily removed or replaced and the majority of us who do not need a UPS won't have to fuss with one. 2) The computer automatically configures your Internet connection the first time it is turned on. It covers many options and I have never seen it do a bad job at this. If you get the dot-Mac service your get configured for lots of other goodies. What more could you want? 3) If you got the dot-Mac service, this is one of the services that came with it. Since the OS keeps your user files neatly organized in a user domain, backing up user files is greatly simplified. What's not to like? Are you perhaps running Vista on your Intel-based MacMini? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
Of course. Have the backup job write to an external drive or just manually burn a CD or DVD once per week/month. -Original Message- But don't you really need to back up to a separate device or drive, in case the entire hard drive becomes corrupted, etc.? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Fwd: NYT: Altered iPhones Freeze Up
The Jesus phone lives again. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone/unbricked-iphones-now-fully-working-calls-included-305253.php Giz reporting iphones fully working after updates. I wonder if this will end up being some cat and mouse game like so many other drm related issues. On a note about what Jeff said about Apple's heavy handedness, on a recent macbreak, full of mac zealots no less, Leo and Merlin both agreed that if Apple had the market share MS has they would be worse then MS is about exploiting it. Mike On 9/30/07, Jeff Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought transparent BS was genetically impossible, but again, you prove me wrong. I didn't know there was a iGeneSplice app out. You've been tinkering, haven't you? Were this **cough** another company being so heavy-handed and totalitarian with its customers, your words would have been much, much less kind and understanding. Is Apple replacing Think Different with It Sucks to be You? If not genetic engineering, then it appears that the Stockholm syndrome now has a cyber equivalent. -Original Message- A software update to Apple's iPhone on Friday disabled third-party applications and rendered iPhones that had been unlocked completely unusable. Later news is that the phones were not made completely unusable, a new SIMM card could revive the phones. Also, there are reports that some methods of unlocking continued to work. Most third-party applications did stop working, but we don't know if the cause was deliberate or incidental. When OS X first shipped there were many things that Apple told developers not to try. Those that did not listen to Apple's advice found that Apple's updates frequently killed their applications. Looking back on this from 5 years perspective we now know that many parts of OS X were barely working and Apple knew that much work lay ahead. Apple knew that these parts of the OS would get major revisions. Apple did not want the added responsibility of making sure existing third- party software continued to work. Apple knew it probably would not. So Apple tried to warn off developers and let them know that they would not have Apple's support. Over time, these restrictions lessened and Apple told developers when various parts of the OS were stable enough for third-party development. Let's hope the same will happen with the iPhone/iPods. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
At 12:18 PM 09/30/2007 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote I don't think ignorance is an acceptable defense. What if her doctor did not prescribe an important new treatment because keeping up with medical advances was too much trouble? You have a fiduciary responsibility to make the best selection for her, not for you. If I did not push her into this, she would not do it at all. I foresee a very lot of hand-holding. Better that than her spending $1200 and never using it at all. Instead of taking upon yourself the responsibility to sort out the messes why not get a computer that won't have the messes? You can then direct your efforts to the real challenge: teaching her how to use the computer. I wouldn't know how. Nor do I want to spend the necessary hours on her machine to figure it out. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall Depends on what is more reliable in her area. I think DSL is usually more reliable. Not in this area. We're all too far from the phone co to get DSL, but we all have cable available. all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. What does she need a word processor for? Because she likes to write. She has occasionally written articles and submitted them for publication. She has always written in longhand and had someone else type them for her. What does she need an email program for? Because she will understand that better. I don't want to have her launching a whole bunch of stuff at once. Her grown kids and grands are far away, and she will want to receive photos. I want a mail program that will detach the photos and file them, so at least I can find them. Keep it simple. Set her up with Gmail. If she must print out a letter she can type it in Gmail and print from there. I would have the computer automatically launch FireFox and make the home page Gmail. Put some icons at the bookmarks toolbar for the other things she needs. Keep it simple. That's what I plan to do. Manually launch a browser with a blank page and teach her to use bookmarks. And not confuse it with her email. With a very basic understanding of how it really works, she just might progress. By setting up magic in the beginning, she has no hope of learning. I deal with too many people like that all the time. Sue * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
This would all be easier, not for you, but for her, on a Mac. Mason Sent from my iPhone via SiteWelder On Sep 30, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Sue Cubic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:18 PM 09/30/2007 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote I don't think ignorance is an acceptable defense. What if her doctor did not prescribe an important new treatment because keeping up with medical advances was too much trouble? You have a fiduciary responsibility to make the best selection for her, not for you. If I did not push her into this, she would not do it at all. I foresee a very lot of hand-holding. Better that than her spending $1200 and never using it at all. Instead of taking upon yourself the responsibility to sort out the messes why not get a computer that won't have the messes? You can then direct your efforts to the real challenge: teaching her how to use the computer. I wouldn't know how. Nor do I want to spend the necessary hours on her machine to figure it out. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall Depends on what is more reliable in her area. I think DSL is usually more reliable. Not in this area. We're all too far from the phone co to get DSL, but we all have cable available. all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. What does she need a word processor for? Because she likes to write. She has occasionally written articles and submitted them for publication. She has always written in longhand and had someone else type them for her. What does she need an email program for? Because she will understand that better. I don't want to have her launching a whole bunch of stuff at once. Her grown kids and grands are far away, and she will want to receive photos. I want a mail program that will detach the photos and file them, so at least I can find them. Keep it simple. Set her up with Gmail. If she must print out a letter she can type it in Gmail and print from there. I would have the computer automatically launch FireFox and make the home page Gmail. Put some icons at the bookmarks toolbar for the other things she needs. Keep it simple. That's what I plan to do. Manually launch a browser with a blank page and teach her to use bookmarks. And not confuse it with her email. With a very basic understanding of how it really works, she just might progress. By setting up magic in the beginning, she has no hope of learning. I deal with too many people like that all the time. Sue *** * * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived *** * * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
You can't confuse her with email/browser if she's never done it. If she does it from the start it would be simplier, less to mess with. It would also save time if her computer ever goes down, all her stuff is online and you wouldn't have to explain to her how it's all gone or how to back up. With google docs you could put everything she needs in one place. Mike On 9/30/07, Sue Cubic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's what I plan to do. Manually launch a browser with a blank page and teach her to use bookmarks. And not confuse it with her email. With a very basic understanding of how it really works, she just might progress. By setting up magic in the beginning, she has no hope of learning. I deal with too many people like that all the time. Sue * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
and probably easier for you too since you wouldn't be there pushing her and hand-holding.. Maybe you would both have time to get a new hobby. g cb On Sep 30, 2007, at 7:43 PM, Mason Miller wrote: This would all be easier, not for you, but for her, on a Mac. Mason Sent from my iPhone via SiteWelder On Sep 30, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Sue Cubic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:18 PM 09/30/2007 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote I don't think ignorance is an acceptable defense. What if her doctor did not prescribe an important new treatment because keeping up with medical advances was too much trouble? You have a fiduciary responsibility to make the best selection for her, not for you. If I did not push her into this, she would not do it at all. I foresee a very lot of hand-holding. Better that than her spending $1200 and never using it at all. Instead of taking upon yourself the responsibility to sort out the messes why not get a computer that won't have the messes? You can then direct your efforts to the real challenge: teaching her how to use the computer. I wouldn't know how. Nor do I want to spend the necessary hours on her machine to figure it out. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall Depends on what is more reliable in her area. I think DSL is usually more reliable. Not in this area. We're all too far from the phone co to get DSL, but we all have cable available. all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. What does she need a word processor for? Because she likes to write. She has occasionally written articles and submitted them for publication. She has always written in longhand and had someone else type them for her. What does she need an email program for? Because she will understand that better. I don't want to have her launching a whole bunch of stuff at once. Her grown kids and grands are far away, and she will want to receive photos. I want a mail program that will detach the photos and file them, so at least I can find them. Keep it simple. Set her up with Gmail. If she must print out a letter she can type it in Gmail and print from there. I would have the computer automatically launch FireFox and make the home page Gmail. Put some icons at the bookmarks toolbar for the other things she needs. Keep it simple. That's what I plan to do. Manually launch a browser with a blank page and teach her to use bookmarks. And not confuse it with her email. With a very basic understanding of how it really works, she just might progress. By setting up magic in the beginning, she has no hope of learning. I deal with too many people like that all the time. Sue * *** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] * *** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * *** ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
Definately, heaven forbid she learns to use email well and some well intentioned idiot sends her a link to a malware site taking her system down. The slight if at all aggravation of the teacher having to learn mac os a little would be easily offset by the coming problems she could face. But then I also understand the issue of cost, I couldn't bring myself to buy a mac either, but then I don't have any problems on my xp/vista boxes anyway. Mike On 9/30/07, Mason Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This would all be easier, not for you, but for her, on a Mac. Mason Sent from my iPhone via SiteWelder On Sep 30, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Sue Cubic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:18 PM 09/30/2007 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote I don't think ignorance is an acceptable defense. What if her doctor did not prescribe an important new treatment because keeping up with medical advances was too much trouble? You have a fiduciary responsibility to make the best selection for her, not for you. If I did not push her into this, she would not do it at all. I foresee a very lot of hand-holding. Better that than her spending $1200 and never using it at all. Instead of taking upon yourself the responsibility to sort out the messes why not get a computer that won't have the messes? You can then direct your efforts to the real challenge: teaching her how to use the computer. I wouldn't know how. Nor do I want to spend the necessary hours on her machine to figure it out. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall Depends on what is more reliable in her area. I think DSL is usually more reliable. Not in this area. We're all too far from the phone co to get DSL, but we all have cable available. all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. What does she need a word processor for? Because she likes to write. She has occasionally written articles and submitted them for publication. She has always written in longhand and had someone else type them for her. What does she need an email program for? Because she will understand that better. I don't want to have her launching a whole bunch of stuff at once. Her grown kids and grands are far away, and she will want to receive photos. I want a mail program that will detach the photos and file them, so at least I can find them. Keep it simple. Set her up with Gmail. If she must print out a letter she can type it in Gmail and print from there. I would have the computer automatically launch FireFox and make the home page Gmail. Put some icons at the bookmarks toolbar for the other things she needs. Keep it simple. That's what I plan to do. Manually launch a browser with a blank page and teach her to use bookmarks. And not confuse it with her email. With a very basic understanding of how it really works, she just might progress. By setting up magic in the beginning, she has no hope of learning. I deal with too many people like that all the time. Sue *** * * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived *** * * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: XP Gets Life Extension]
This lady might benefit from a resource like SeniorNet. She might find a peer group. She'll learn things, maybe completely new things that will develop new interests for her to pursue. Who knows.. soon after Sue gets the PC set up the lady may go online, order a Mac, pull it out of the box, and be online in 15 minutes and doing all those cool things the Mac Guy does in the Switch commercials! Then maybe she'll join a local MUG and start doing presentations in Keynote, build a blog on day trips for the 70+ crowd, publish that book, and go on Oprah! This link says it all in a fifteen item list that seems to cover Sue's points of concern. http://www.apple.com/getamac/ cb On Sep 30, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Sue Cubic wrote: At 12:18 PM 09/30/2007 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote I don't think ignorance is an acceptable defense. What if her doctor did not prescribe an important new treatment because keeping up with medical advances was too much trouble? You have a fiduciary responsibility to make the best selection for her, not for you. If I did not push her into this, she would not do it at all. I foresee a very lot of hand-holding. Better that than her spending $1200 and never using it at all. Instead of taking upon yourself the responsibility to sort out the messes why not get a computer that won't have the messes? You can then direct your efforts to the real challenge: teaching her how to use the computer. I wouldn't know how. Nor do I want to spend the necessary hours on her machine to figure it out. Considering all of this, I think she'd be safest with a cable connection behind a firewall Depends on what is more reliable in her area. I think DSL is usually more reliable. Not in this area. We're all too far from the phone co to get DSL, but we all have cable available. all desktop icons hidden except for a word processor, My Documents, Firefox and a stand-alone email icon. What does she need a word processor for? Because she likes to write. She has occasionally written articles and submitted them for publication. She has always written in longhand and had someone else type them for her. What does she need an email program for? Because she will understand that better. I don't want to have her launching a whole bunch of stuff at once. Her grown kids and grands are far away, and she will want to receive photos. I want a mail program that will detach the photos and file them, so at least I can find them. Keep it simple. Set her up with Gmail. If she must print out a letter she can type it in Gmail and print from there. I would have the computer automatically launch FireFox and make the home page Gmail. Put some icons at the bookmarks toolbar for the other things she needs. Keep it simple. That's what I plan to do. Manually launch a browser with a blank page and teach her to use bookmarks. And not confuse it with her email. With a very basic understanding of how it really works, she just might progress. By setting up magic in the beginning, she has no hope of learning. I deal with too many people like that all the time. Sue ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension]
Backup device will arrive in a few weeks - http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Well, sounds like Macs would be perfectly suited to build in a back up device (or provide an external one) to make backing up as easy and automatic as possible, with options for manual control for those who want or need that. Since Apple has control over the hardware and the software, why not have this? Too much added cost, so may not see competitive? Those who can think beyond their nose might appreciate not having to fool with buying aftermarket devices for this. Maybe someday, when I could afford to, I'd even buy one! * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension]
Well, there you go! Wonder about cost, naturally. So any chance of this ever coming to the PC world, where I am currently mired? Randall - Original Message - From: b_s-wilk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] MacMini: [Was: XP Gets Life Extension] Backup device will arrive in a few weeks - http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Well, sounds like Macs would be perfectly suited to build in a back up device (or provide an external one) to make backing up as easy and automatic as possible, with options for manual control for those who want or need that. Since Apple has control over the hardware and the software, why not have this? Too much added cost, so may not see competitive? Those who can think beyond their nose might appreciate not having to fool with buying aftermarket devices for this. Maybe someday, when I could afford to, I'd even buy one! * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Rename the List?
Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] excribió: I'm thinking of something like this: when a person is curious or has aquestion about something they can go out in the world - to other persons, the internet, a book, database, etc. - and acquire new information, which would then answer their question or questions or lead to additional questions or thoughts or other answers. This could be part of a process ofproblem-solving or making a decision (with both decisions and problems being questions or perhaps sets of questions). So wondering if computers could be developed to simulate this process, i.e. the natural process ofhow the human mind works when it plans, etc. (as described, for instance, by David Allen, in Getting Things Done, chapter 3 on the natural planning process). And could computers have more choices than the two they nowhave in answering every question, i.e. operate on something other than binary? Computers don't have to think like humans to be successful. Robots don't have to act like humans to be successful. Other organisms... Sometimes doing a task extremely well in succession with other tasks is more important than a lot of thinking and analyzing. Look how well some animals survive with their own special skills, even though their thought processes are very primitive. Ants and hornets will survive. Cockroaches may not. That depends on adaptation, not intelligence. The Voyager interstellar mission, launched in 1977, that was supposed to last 5 years, yet 30 years later Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 are still collecting data and sending it back to Earth, and are expected to be useful for another 20 years or so. They are designed to conduct 10 different scientific experiments, and have done very well, considering the simple yet elegant systems they use. Similarly the Mars Rovers, Spirit and Opportunity are designed to take orders from the scientists, but make simple 'decisions' on their own. That mission was designed to last 90 days. They landed on Mars in January 2004 and are still exploring [Spirit is resting for the winter; Opportunity is exploring a crater, http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]. Neither project used extremely powerful computers. Rather they used the ones most likely to do their tasks well, and in the case of the Rovers, the computers were designed to be updated at a long distance. [self-portraits - Spirit, Opportunity, http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20060104a.html, http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1518] It will be exciting to learn how the human mind works. However, if computers progress to a point where they can think--whatever that means--it's possible that the process could be very unhuman-like, although powerful. Simulating a process is not thinking--IM a bot and see. Could we even recognize an intelligent being or computer or robot from another planet/galaxy? How will you know when your computer is thinking? Binary is working well enough now--does it need to be replaced when computers become organic? Betty --- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
